Need More Ram Pump Water? Do This One Trick
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- The tilt of the waste valve makes a difference in how to ram pump operates. If you have a low head pressure situation you can tilt the waste valve so the flap closes easily. If you have a high head pressure and plenty of flow you can tilt the valve to close harder and get higher flow at the top.
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Not only am I very surprised at the amount that was pumped when it was in the hard position, but the fact that it didn't slip up and quit working or even that it started working at all! Very informative as usual thank you Seth and the people who suggested it.
I’ve tried it 3 weeks ago by simple deduction previous from seeing this video and came to the same results 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
That is awesome! How did we never think to try this before?
I know! But at least now we know!
I would love to see if you can make a drum pump! Where you take a water tight steel drum and pump water from a lower water source to a higher elevation. I have watched many videos from the Philippines, but little information and a lot of people are calling it BS. If anyone can do it, you can!
You're welcome for the idea! I'm always thinking of better ways to do things, it hinders getting things done though.
thank you for sharing
Awesome results
Great video. I will definitely try this
Awesome video man. Very informative.
thanks for doing the underwater pump. i just couldnt get with the ram pump if it lost 30% west texas water.
knowing it can pump and send waste in to the same container to be repumped is gold out here. good on you.
now to get that windmill to lift the water 4'😁
Well if the last bit with the slow motion was a great relaxation video idea lol. I could literally watch that a good while.
Haha, 1h of slow motion ram pump! That should be an easy-to-make video ... probably
That might be on the list of videos coming out soon. ...
I will have to setup the gopro on both this small pump and the larger pump in the creek. Should be fun for a nice long waste valve video.
Nice test !
Wow, very interesting.
I think that's very important because when you have a seasonal stream you can adjust accordingly or during drought season if you were to make a gauge that you put on that'll be an excellent tool a nice selling point
Cool outro! Also great test, always good to find new improvements.
Yes slow motion is always fun!
Interesting test and great results! Btw. you tilted the Waste Valve at first 28° to the right (seen down-stream) and then 26° to the left. I measured this with two screenshots, assuming that you kept the camera horizontal and the Pressure Tank vertical.
The change in maximum pressure between this configurations would also be interesting to measure. I know, your pressure gauge is broken, but probably you should do the test again to measure the pressure. Because in theory you should reach a higher pressure with longer cycling periodes, and vice versa. So tilting the valve to the right (seen down-stream) reduces the cycling time and hence the pressure or the gainable pumping height. That also leads to a lower pumping RATE at a certain hight. Tilting it to the left increases the cycle time (and hence the top speed of the water in the Drive Pipe). That should give a higher pressure or pumping height, and a higher pumping RATE at a certain height.
What you will not measure with your test is the pump efficiency! Therefore you would need to measure either the used water from your bucket or the wasted water from the waste valve. That would be interesting too, but also harder to measure. I think that the configuration with the larger cycling time ist the more efficient configuration. But there must be a Sweet Spot with the cycling time were either decreasing or increasing the cycling time worsens the efficiency.
That is too cool my friend, thanks for that bit.
In the "Hard Close" position, more water runs through the waste valve -> the flow rate in the drive pipe climbs higher -> more inertia in the water in the drive pipe when the waste valve closes -> the pressure spike from the "water hammer" effect spikes higher -> more pressure in the delivery tank/pipe.
I saw a TikTok of a pump that had like 9 waste valves all in a line. They said it helped with starting and some other things. Admittedly the scale of that pump was much much larger. I think they had something like a 1-1/2in inlet pipe. But it might be an interesting test.
Wonderful. Will be trying this. I was thinking I may have to go to a 1" pump, from a 3/4".
Wow thankyou man
Wayta go man ... 👍👍👍
Love your videos mate.
Thanks for your amazing content.
Thank you. This is a nice addition to ram pump capability.
@@LandtoHouse Hey there Seth,
Over the past 2 weeks I’ve watched about 30 of your videos.
We were looking for a property to buy with a dam, now we’re only looking for something that has a constant water supply so we can pump , only thanks to your videos.
Thank you so much mate.
Great video and test ! Such a simple change to try. You showed straight up vs maybe 30 degrees over. Whose to say 30 was optimal? Was definitely better, but maybe 20 or 45 might have been even better.
May seem like a small difference, but a 16% increase with no increased cost and minimal effort can be significant multiple ram pumps or larger ones are needed to meet output requirements. I'm currently running 4 and hope to test an additional larger pump. Most of my current pumps are from Land To House. Thanks!
Nice results! Who would have thought that would deliver better?
You should repeat this test with measured angles from vertical. Something like 5° increments to about 60° from the straight up and down position. And measure multiple times to get an average result for each one. This would allow you to determine the change in flow and pressure as a function of the angle. You could combine this with some testing at different head levels (ex. 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 ft) to determine if there is an optimal position for the check valve based on the source height above the pump.
what i would like to know is how it effects efficiency, cause your loosing more water with each cycle, but your also pumping more per cycle, so does it work out to the same efficiency?
Great video again, thanks! Does the hard close position of the valve create more pressure in the pressure tank? And is there a danger of bursting the tank?
Be able to set the speed of the pump is about setting the pump to the amount of water you have available and how much water you need. The larger hydrum pumps have adjustable waste valves to do this. Our pumps runs at 110-120 bpm to Maintain its head dependant on the time of year. So simple but very effective and cheap to run. Great vids bringing old tech back
Seems like a good point. Depending on the time of year you can adjust the waste valve tilt to use more or less water.
I love lam pomp
You make any significant change in performance is to increase the surge pressure . this requires increase in velocity and/or specific gravity of the media but most importantly the speed (time) of shut off (closing of vertical check v/v. Playing around with geometry is only friction twigging velocity
I was wondering if you ever did an endurance test on different check valves. I understand the brass ones will wear out in a year or so to where they fail. I seen a RAM pump using a spring operated pvc valve that seem to last longer. It was replaced when it failed. It was found to be a twig that jammed it, not due to wear and tear. Last I would like to see a endurance test done with a waste valve based on TKOR (PVC + marble + o-ring) DIY check valve.
Ah, porch gets a new painting: Grey with dark ballisters. Cool!
Yes! Only took .... a year to paint.
@@LandtoHouse I see ... the grey is not realy grey but matches the color of your house.
A more detailed analysis can be made as for each case - degrees of slope, amount of pumped water per minute, number of clicks per minute and amount of wasted water down per minute are recorded. This will result in a fairly detailed graph. If technical data for the project are also included, such as the difference in height from where the water flows, pipe sizes, pressures etc. a comparison can be made between the different projects.
Another great video thanks mate. I've always assumed about 60% of the water gets delivered and 40% comes out the waste valve. - effectively that's the price (in water) you pay to get the lift. I think I read that somewhere. Do you find that ratio pretty consistent? A little flow meter on your drive pipe or on your hose - if that's even possible, or capturing/measuring a minute of water out the waste valve might confirm that. I'm about to setup my ram pump on a natural spring, will be great to see that I can take some water and return the rest to the natural course of the spring. Thanks again for the doing the laps up and down that hill....
to save all the walking maybe set up at the side of one of the tall trees and put a rope and pulley on it as high as possible
Also in the easy Closed position, If you Only Wanted of Needed A Leer Amount of Water There You Are Just Telt the Valve in
wonder if you could use a microcontroller with a few solenoids, a battery and solar panel to setup an auto restart/or to supertune the system for head or flow variation
Thank you so much for sharing videos, please subtitle Vietnamese and multi-language, English works well, give me detailed subtitles on how to make pum water.
Interesting. What would happen if you added a threaded nipple to the top of the valve? More or less output? Thanks for sharing.
Water it's what the body craves LOL LOL
How about this trick with both pumps working together and against each other? Thanks.
Hello and thanks for sharing.
How long / tall can the pipe to the check valve be ?
Would rotating the check valve to horizontal instead of vertical have a more dramatic effect? Probably with a short bend of PVC facing up to ensure that there is back pressure and water isn't just flowing onto the ground.
Nice experiment. Your test system provides a constant head pressure at whatever flow rate the pump calls for. The waste water per cycle was clearly less in the "easy" position than the "hard" position; but at a higher frequency. I'm curious as to the flow rate (say in 1 minute) of the WASTE water for each of the 3 trials.
I am also curious as to the flow rate of the waste water. Because that determines the efficiency of the pump (efficiency = in-flow / puming-flow at a certain height). It is hard to measure the waste water flow rate, but you can also measure the in-flow rate. If the bucket will not be refilled, you could just measure how much was used. But you will change the height in the bucket and hence the head pressure. Probably it also works if you connect a pipe to the Waste Valve and collect the water for 1 minute. Any way, you will influence the pump with the measurement a little bit.
I'd be curious how much extra lift this "hard" position provides, if any.
Can you put one of these pumps directly into a flowing creek to bring water up to cattle trough??
What happens if you put a short section of pipe on top of the valve
it would be nice to know how much the waste difference is between these 3 different tests
Hello. Can the intake water be from a still/not moving water pond? Does the pipe from the pond have to go lower first before it goes up? Can the water pump 35’ high? I like your video very much, I have learned a lot. Thank you.
Could do this and say the gpm it used. Will a 1gpm spring work it?
What if you put a hose on the outtake would that work?
Seth did you ever plumb your waste valve water back into the supply line using a tee fitting
How about using the waste water pressure to drive a little wheel and create some electricity to charge a battery. With larger ram pumps the waste valve pressure is sometimes pretty violent too. If you channel that into a pipe and use 24/7 this should amount to something. Better still, if you have some elvation left after your ram pump, collect it in a buffer bucket and use gravity for a constant flow, consistent with the ram pump waste volume. Would be an interesting experiment....
Bagus untuk memperbandingkan debit air...seberapa besar air yang terangkat dan air yang terbuang.
What about using the waste valve inline instead of wasting the water?
Why did you decide to use a PVC check valve for the in line one?
You should add a pressure gauge before the output ball valve.
I bet the pressure is higher in the newest tilt of the waste valve. Which equals higher flow or to a higher elevation.
I also bet there is a ratio between output pressure & potential output elevation, based on overall elevation of system.
Might be time to invest in a clear tube or hose & mount it to the side of the shop or house. Also mount a yard stick next to it, acting as a graduated cylinder.
You are right, I hope that Seth is already bying a new pressure gauge. I am also keen on measurements of the pressure. An yes, there is a direct correlation between pressure and pump height: every psi equals 2.3 feet! In other words: The pressure at the bottom of a 2.3 feet high hose filled with water is exactly 1psi, no matter how thick the hose is or if it is vertical or at any angle.
I enjoy your content
I don't think I've seen any content, of using the wastewater.
Since 90% of the water flows out of that valve, would be neat to see somebody capture that water and do something with it.
Maybe even capture it and channel it into watering the flower beds?.. just seems like you could do something with it other than let it spill out right on the ground where the pump sits
Maybe an old-time gravity-fed fountain.. just collect the water that comes out of the valve channel it down a pipe and have a little fountain at the bottom?
Maybe collect it and channel it to a smaller ram pump just to increase your flow up the hill?
No bad ideas in brainstorming haha
So in this particular situation he is just testing different elements of things, but in a "real" situation your RAM pump would be sitting in a creek bed and the wastewater would just be feeding right back into the same Creek it came from in the first place, but I like the way you're thinking!
Check out this video
ua-cam.com/video/q3BOG0hureY/v-deo.html
I've seen guys use a pipe on the outlet valve about the height of the pressure chamber.
I tested that. As you add height to the waste valve it reduces the head pressure.
Maybe someone else said this, but I wonder what would happen at either 90 degrees from the initial position and 180 degrees.
Can this work in pools?
Would this one be big enough to make a waterfall 8ft high? I've a pool with a extra rainwatervat the water goes from pool into vat, if I submerge a pump like this can it pump enough to create a 4ft wide waterfall back into the pool, the roof is 8ft high.
Bro, I would be lazy and use my lawnmower to go back and forth.
Super nice video and a good explaination of the Fysics behind all this- but tip bro..stop mixing Metrick system with Imperial that Imperial systemm is way old and its not good in any way to explain Physics what ever 2021.
the output flow from the valve Charges the Chamber. then, other things happen.
Another possible trick: tilt the air-tank to 45 degrees. Check it out.
I faced the problem where the waste valve and the main valve is constantly open, does that mean the water pressure being supplied into the inlet is too high? Any suggestion to fix this? I can't get it to cycle
If you really want to be precise and scientific you can weigh the container with water after each test of exactly 1 minute. Water is 8.327 lbs. to the gallon. Once you get both of your test weights you can determine the percentage of the before and after in detail. One way to figure percentage is to divide the big number into the little number. You'll get a decimal figure then move your decimal twice to the right and that's you percentage.
When in the hard close position, does it also reduce the life of the valve quicker than in the middle or easy close?
That's a good point! I didn't even think about that, but it makes sense that it would likely wear out faster if it is slamming shut harder.
I have an idea for water source gathering
what if you take a 45 gallon drum cut the bottom off of it use three-quarter inch hose from the 45 gallon drum to the ram pump Put the 45 gallon drum in a River as the 45 gallon drum will work like a funnel this is something I am interested to try on my property would like to hear your and knowledge on this
Because the ram pump is cycling water in the drive pipe it will only consume a set amount of water. This means that the Funnel does not increase the pressure. You still have to have the head pressure.
Did you ever find a stainless check valve that worked reliably?
I have used a stainless on my 1" pump for 2 years. The problem is the stainless flap is WAY heavier than the brass. This means you have to have a lot more head pressure just to run a pump.
Sir is the water level in the supply tank reman the same?
I have a float valve in the supply for my testing. It keeps the water level the same.
I watch A LOT of your videos, but you never check if the "waste" water is more or less in these tests. I'm curious where is the best position for the amount of water used.
What would happen if you increased the diameter of the inlet pipe and ram pump etc but still had the same size outlet pipe. So more volume of water would go in the ramp pump, would it increase the pressure and height of the outlet? in you know what i mean?
1/2" pipe can carry a lot of water at low pressure. Around 7gpm. The ram pump is a low flow low pressure pump. you could use 1/2" delivery on a 3" ram pump and still get by with it.
Did you do a video of them inline of eachothere would the second one just not work. And if you turn it where it has to snap harder
ua-cam.com/video/q3BOG0hureY/v-deo.html
This works. But it would not work to have the drive pipe on the delivery pipe of another. Not enough flow and the source needs to be open to air.
@@LandtoHouse sorry I should word it differently I mean have 2 connected to eachothere in line with the valve gate thing at an angle like you said
at 7:41, any conclusions can ONLY be applied to SIMILAR conditions.!!!
This is just my thoughts, I have no way to test it myself or any evidence to support it.
I think the volume of waste water will have the same ratio as the pumped water regardless of how the volume being pumped. These are numbers I have made up as an example but for ever litre from the source I would guess that 700ml is waisted and 300ml is pumped to the top of the system for 70% waist.
I am also guessing that the higher the water is being pumped the more water is being waisted and I would also guess that if you had the water being pumped to the same hight as the source you would lose a little bit more than 50% to waist and the amount of waist increases the higher the water is pumped.
He'd have to walk up and down that hill too many times lol
Its only 30 feet elevation change but...
It maybe stupid but I wonder if you somehow you got one using oxygen under the ocean and it would go up hill because it lighter than air if a ram air pump would work. I'm sure it's been done but not in that specific way probably.
👍😎👍
It seems to me that much water is wasted on the ground. Anyway to catch that and return it back to the system for use? There was many times more water going on the ground than into that measuring cup in one minute.
The ram pump is really great in a creek. This simple test setup would not be good because the source is limited. There is no way to return the water from the waste valve.
@@LandtoHouse So you couldn't put a pan with a hose on it and return it to the creek or pond? I would think of some way to catch it if I could. Water could be gold in future. LOL
@@Val-ee4hd Ah I see what you mean. Yes you can capture the waste water and pipe it down hill. This test was performed using water stored from another ram pump in the creek.
@@LandtoHouse 👍
Height matters so will it still work on a steep slope?
Good Question!? I'm assuming you're asking :If you was to have more back pressure from pumping further and higher would it work without failing in the hard position?!
Gotta remember...that run of hose to the porch was about 30-35ft at about a 7 degree incline. Then it takes a dramatic upturn in angle, almost a full 90 degrees onto the porch at about 4-5 ft. Without the upturn you should be able to get the approximate same flow(7 degree angle) for another 30-40 ft at the 17-20 degree waste valve turn to the left(more volume+short didstance=greater force). Hope that helps a bit😁
@@CromeDomeOmega my lot has a drop of 230m over 500m length...is it still viable? If so what is the best way to ensure that it will work
@@paulkawsek8617 depends on what your looking to use the water for. Do you have a general idea of how many gpm you need from the ram pumps output?
@@paulkawsek8617 230m pumping height!!? You will need a ram pump made of metal, but it should work. The steepnes does not matter, you could even pump vertical. But you need a pump that is capable of delivering and withstanding 23bar (around 330psi). There are ram pumps around that can handle this. But you also need a good source of water for driving the pump. Assuming an efficiency of 50% of the ram pump you will need e.g. 20gpm falling from 23m height to pump 1gmp to 230m!
If we ran two pumps simultaneously but isolated them from each other with check valves after the pump, could we increase the flow?
you need scooter for that test for that hill. or you can chose to workout without gym :D
Inlet preassur is the driving force....wont matter how many rampumps you add to the system downline - all is plain physics - to profe me wrong...test your system with a bigger outline
Try something else and you will get a very good result. It is the pipe that enters the water into the ram, which is 18 meters long. Divide it in half and add a piece of pipe about a meter long and its size is larger than the size of the supply pipe. Make it open-headed to the top so that the water rises to it, provided that the water does not reach the head of the pipe and be lost. Water, so the water pressure will be greater for the ram, and the water flow will be two times greater, because the greater the water pressure to the ram, the flow will be greater. They also say that the size of the water outlet pipe should be smaller by half the size of the supply pipe, and this is a lie. Replace the outlet pipe to a larger size, and the water flow will be bigger and more.
Nice, but not too impressed. I use a different kind of valve, that can have weight added for tweaking. The valve open / close verticaly, not sideways. I managed 11 meters (36 feet) of pumping height from only 40 cm (0,4 meters/ 1.31 feet) of head pressure. Needless to say, the flow rate was slow, but still beats carrying it by hand.
Could a garden hose prime the ramp pump?
🐼~ 𝓒𝓸𝓸𝓵 𝓑𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 ~🐼
This pump mostly waste the water
When in a creek there is no waste.
yeah ... Metric System is cool ... 350ml of water is about 350g of weight. 1kg of water is about 1000ml or 1l ;-) ... 8:50 no ... he is an chicken murder. He likes animal fighting, shame on him.