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Update on my Creality CR-X and going forward
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2018
- Just an update on the issues I'm facing with my pre-production Creality CR-X and how I intend to proceed, for purpose of full transparency.
Please note, this video is in no way intended to attack Creality or any one else, and it represents my opinions only.
Videos mentioned:
My Live Unboxing of the CR-X - • New Creality CR-X - Li...
3D Printing Nerd's CR-X Video - • The Unfortunate Proble...
Creality's Statement - • Creality 3D CR-X 3d Pr...
Support Maker's Muse on Patreon
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50 3D Printing Tips and Tricks - gumroad.com/l/...
3D Printing Essentials - www.amazon.com...
Yeah I'd like to complain that this time you were a bit too kind and should have taken a hammer to the thing😜
Looks like crap. No excuse for anyone to ship a printer like that.
I'm supposed to get a CRX with the updates to test in the next day or so. Lets see.
Haha, I want to get it up and going but am a little stumped. I am super keen to see your results with the updated unit!
@@MakersMuse I'm super keen to see any video she makes...
Can you recommend some fixes for this machine? Mine is just horrible. Thanks
sending units like this to reviewers is PR suicide... what on earth were they thinking? am i really suppose to believe that if they send units like this to reviewers that i will get a good working one?? they can make all the responses they want, first impressions are only made once and if this is it then i'm staying away from this printer as far as i can.
Kaoss personally I'd rather deal with a company that admits their mistakes, than one that denies the mistakes exist. Time will tell which one they are. One thing is certain. If they had known about the problems with the machine, they would've never sent it to Angus.
ever heard of quality control? testing a product before sending it out? especially for review? sorry but it's not a matter of if they knew, it's a matter of they should have known.
@IndyHelis agree , a simple disclaimer saying they aren't finished yet and they would love feedback for improvement would have made this whole ordeal look like a genius move to get the opinions of others in their products. now it's just a missed opportunity.
i mean its how they have been doing things ever since the cr-10 came out and just now people are pissy about it
i don't think it's just now that people are getting "pissy" about it, i think people are getting more vocal about it because they are fed up with it. We are paying customers and expect a finished product that works as intended. it's sad to say that yes this is very common practice nowadays, just look at games. Those get shipped in a broken state all the time with the promise of patches and updates. consumers need to realize that the only way those practices will die out is if we stop buying broken stuff.
Thanks for taking the time to show us what does not work . Love your videos.
Thank you for being honest to us. And I would think the manufacturer would appreciate “conservative criticism” as well. That’s what makes a good reviewer Great. Keep it up, and thank you.
Creality have always taken suggestions on board eagerly, the problem lies when they are only doing that after sending pre-production units out that are mistakenly presented to influencers as review units, and are in no way representative of the final product.
Take that front right spring and simply stretch it slightly. Not that you should have to, but it will work for that one corner. I ABSOLUTELY love your channel. Tha k yiu for the information.
With my own printer kit (i3 steel frame) I had similar symptoms and after a year of coping with that as well as upgrading to a high quality aluminium print bed, wich didn't solve that particular problem, I finally realized that the two rails for the Y axis were not exactly parallel. I fixed that issue by raising one edge of the frame by some millimeters and since then it works fine.
I realize, though, that this is not a solution for a box frame like the CR-X is built with, but maybe the cause itself is similar...
Kind regards and thanks for all that good work!
EDIT: I still have no idea what originally caused that misalignment of the two rails... Maybe just a mistake of mine during assembly.
As an owner of a CR10S Creality do have QA issues, even on production units. My printer had screws that had come out of the Z axis lead screw gantry bushes and wasn't usable out of the box. I accepted this as it was a relatively inexpensive printer for it's capabilities and it was an opportunity to understand and learn about maintenance and setup of the printer, but had I bought it as a productivity tool I wouldn't have been so sympathetic. I think companies should think carefully about releasing pre production units for review, by all means use experienced and knowledgeable people such as yourself (providing a mutually agreeable arrangement can be made) to improve early prototypes, but if you release unfinished product for review without some basic QA process you get the criticism that has happened here. Creality should be reaching out to help here if they are that concerned.
very interesting. I actually encountered a very similar issue on my recently purchased Ender-3: I would level the bed with a piece of paper exactly like it it always shown but when the print startet it would always start way higher (you could see the difference just by looking at the nozzle/printbed-gap)often times leading to a failed first layer. At first I thought it had to do with the warped aluminium Bed and they quickly sent me one of the new glass print beds. The problem persisted though until I changed my leveling Gcode to actually level with Z at exactly 0. After that the nozzle started the prints at the right height. It almost seems like it adds another 0.2 or whatever your layer height is extra to the starting Z height. Interested too see what the solution will be ultimately. Thanks for the update! Btw I actually don't mind tinkering and tuning my printer a bit as I also feel like I learn a lot over the machine and how to trouble shoot it. For people who need everything perfect from the start and want a real plug and play solution the Creality printers are surely not the right choice but only because the Ender 3 was so cheap I was able to afford a 3D printer at all and if tuned/fixed properly it stomps out prints that are at least up to par with prints from machines at least twice if not more expensive! Also for the Ender 3 all files including technical drawings for all mechanical parts etc. are open source which is a huge thing imho.
There seems to be a firmware issue that is causing that problem with the first layer height. I would think that issue would have been found and fixed with any amount of QC and having that issue also with the Ender 3 as you said it shouldn't be an issue with later designed models. Creality isn't 2 dudes in a basement style company anymore. They need to up their game.
I think this is an issue with your Gcode and not with the Ender3 wich is a good machine (unlike the machine in this video) Have you subscribed to the Ender3 group on FB and asked for advice? I own this Ender3 and 2 CR10 but I'm not going to buy the CR-X. For this price it should print 2 different materials instead of 2 colours only.
I have had this issue with many printers. If I level by using the printer my first layer is high. If I level with s3d control first layer is good.
I've had similar issues with a regular CR-10. Putting a washer in between the spring and the bed bracket helped loads by decreasing the distance the spring can travel, making it tighter.
I know I'm 4 years late... but I think the CR-X (like just about every other printer I've used with firmware levelling) was expecting to level the bed with Z at 0mm, i.e.: with the nozzle just physically touching the bed and no clearance.
By using a doubled-over piece of paper to level you were adding 0.2mm to the expected height so the first layer of the Benchy was actually trying to air print at 0.4mm. I use a custom g-code script with Z at 0.1mm so that levelling works correctly with a single sheet of paper.
Of course getting a bent carriage doesn't help matters, that's totally on Creality.
This is exactly why I have gone on a war path with Creality. These are not new issues on a pre-production unit, these are the same issues that comes from the CR-10. FYI - using thicker glass on the bed does help to get the nozzle closer, but it is still not an answer. Having the screws screwed out so far basically means the bed is resting on springs which has 2 problems.... 1) Printing larger prints pushes the bed lower down as it gets heavier, so the layer height changes as it gets bigger. 2) The bed has "movement"... It's like building a house on springs to help with earthquakes, When the bed changes direction, it actually "resists" because it is balancing on the springs and you get layer shifts.
I am not upset because a pre-production unit isn't perfect, I am furious that Creality is still trying to sell the same problems and hide it under the "minor issues" banner.
3:08... Assuming I understand that leveling mechanism....
I'd put a couple of washers under the the yellow spring to compress the spring a bit more to get the bed travel you need.
that's the plan, the bolt is too short though the knob falls off. need a really long M4.
On my CR10 I had the same problem. Adding a very long bolt would hit the bottom of printer. My Cr is now catching dust.
Tighten up the bolts on the other 3 corners, making the front right the highest one at close to its full travel, then level off that corner first.
YAY, my CR-10 S5 has had all these issues. Now I can finally see the best ways to fix them.
I have recently brought this unit and the problem you highlight with the corner is still prominent in the consumer machine
Hey great video. I got mine back in Nov. 18', never hooked it up until last March. So clock ticking on warranty, and right out of the box it went together great. Never really had any issues mentioned on this or Joels video, or TH3D's unboxing either. Worked like a "good-one" for the last two months. No leveling issues, hotend issues, and no touch screen issues. BUT! The SD card reader would not recognize in of my files saved using CURA (I have 4.0) until I re-tagged them deleting CURA's "CCR" from the name, and using lower case letters. I did that and worked fine, but about a month into using my CR-X and the SD card system. The machine started to recognize "CCR" named filed that I had stored on my other cards used in the past machines. Made me think that it could be a "CURA Thing" as I had CURA 3.6 before my CR-X came along. So here is the "big one" as I type this, I am waiting on Gearbest to address the latest issue. The heat-bed stopped last week in the middle of a 26 hr. print. The screen says the heat bed temp is -15 degrees. It was printing great, but then it's my first non-clone, as my first was a ebay special 10s clone that I wound up pulling the guts out and install a TH3D motherboard, and their 10S firmware. And no its a work horse that runs almost 24-7. Am I destined for the same with this CR-X?
The problem with the front right corner is caused by the y-axis rails being twisted. As the bed moves back, it dips down on the right. You need to align the rails by either raising the rear-right, dropping the front-right, raising the front left, or dropping the rear left. You can make three points of a potato chip touch a flat surface, but not in general four points; your y-axis rails are a potato chip.
I have 3 creality printers (cr-10, cr-10s and ender 3). They all have slight issues and I have fixed most of them myself. It takes about 2 weeks to get these printers working right. I agree with everything Angus is saying and I've experienced it in there product units. I can imagine preproduction units being even worse than what I've experienced. Don't think creality should fault Joel or Angus for there opinions. Creality should have hired people like Angus and Joel to fix issues they have pointed out. Keep up the good work angus. I would love to see how much you had to fix on these to get them working right.
Indirectly they did hire them when they sent them a "review" unit . Neither Angus or Joel do this just for the giggles, they make money off sponsorship and views.
I agree but as you said "review" and not as a "first look and here is what you need to fix Creality on the side". That was one of the points Angus made in a previous video about prerelease and reviewing the Chinese printers. Also with people having to be the beta testers for them to just put out another printer with the fixes the people came out with... not Creality.
I have 2 CR10s and they have nice features with regards to the print volume, and the first one made great prints for about 2 weeks until a print broke loose 6+ hours into a print and the whole thing was molten smoking plastic the next morning. The other one that I bought to have one working unit at all times has never gotten good prints, and they keep burning out the electronics (4 cards for less than 1000hrs on two printers).
My first generation UP that has been bent out of shape and operated for 7 years prints faster, layer adhesion is better.... The thing is with the UP it has been - by the filament and start printing. With Creality you just have so many prints coming loose, and you really have to repair/adjust the bloody thing all the time.
They probably added the second z motor. Then had to move the z stop to give room for the motor. That explains why the z switch mount is made from acrylic when everything else is injection molded.
Hi Angus, I think this problem goes deeper than just creality (sending out pre-production/beta units)-look at the Prusa Mk3 for example-released too early and even yours didn’t have the proper “production” base on. It is a problem when you are expected to do reviews on these units, but just know that the 3D printing community isn’t alone with this issue. It seems to be a growing trend or culture with most things out of China-a lot of pre-production RC aircraft get sent out by companies like FMS, hobbyking, freewing etc and reviewers like yourself find themselves being the “beta testers” if you like when they have been sent a model to supposedly review.
Whilst I too agree this practice is wrong, it’s a fine line between “pleasing the consumer” by at least showing SOMETHING that’s about to drop on the market, and at the same time getting a fair review (of sorts) from reviewers. All you can really do as reviewers either 1) refuse to do their reviews until the product has been released a few months, Or 2) do exactly what you have done and made it clear that it’s a pre production unit and whilst yours has issues “a,b,c”etc they are likely to be resolved on the production version-which then begs the question “are you in that case beta testing or reviewing?”
It’s a tough position to be in if you are expected to do a review and you want it to be an accurate reflection of what the end user will get,but if you are getting these printers for free I think the best option is to do what the model aircraft reviewers do and make its problems abundantly clear (as opposed to fix them) and let people know that “it’s a pre production unit, and whilst 80% of it will be fixed design, there is a degree of things that will change post review.
I don’t know what others think but personally I think it’s $200USD too expensive even if it was 100% perfect.
John T $200 too expensive? That's cheap for a 3D printer of that size and caliber. It's almost as cheap as building one from scratch.
There are better alternatives out there but you can easily spend thousands of dollars for some of them. Even they aren't perfect.
Garou Wolfs Haven i’d sooner spend my money on a Prusa Mk2s and MMU before I spend $800USD on an (unsupported by the factory) Chinese printer regardless of the build volume. I think if it’s build volume your after as well your better off spending a few hundred more and either buying something that is supported by the manufacturer, or failing that you could actually probably buy a CR10 and add the second extruder for a heap less and have none of the issues.
Garou Wolfs Haven , you like to jump... He was implying it should cost $200 LESS. This is an explanation, not an agreement...
My CR-10S has the exact same problem with the bed leveling as your CR-X. I didn't get a glass plate (second hand printer, so not sure if it was supposed to come with one), so I'm using a mirror, but if I had just used tape, I wouldn't be able to print anything at all, even if I took the leveling nuts off (definitely NOT recommend 🤣).
Also the same clearance issue where the gantry mounts meets the bottom mounting.
The only fix I've come up with for leveling, is to remove the bed mounting bracket and put a couple of washers on underneath bracket on each bolt and but it back on. I've not yet been able to do this, though looking at the bolts, mine may also have to be replaced, as I think they're too short to add the washers.
Besides that there is a software flaw, in that when you "Pause Print", it runs the "stop" code, turns everything off and goes to home. When you "Stop Print", it runs the "pause" code, stops dead in its tracks and stays hot.
Personally, I'd like to see the gantry raise up 20mm on Pause, and give access to the extruder control, so that you can change filament and purge the previous colour, as the CR-10S only has one hot-end, but that's another story.
Besides these silly design flaws, the CR-10S is cracking printer and I love the idea of the CR-X incorporating the control unit into the printer, much better than a side unit.
ps, love your channel Angus
@Maker's Muse I am sure you will understand what I wrote, but to make it clear, you will not be able to level the bed with a longer screw. The only theoretical way to level the bed would be to bend it to a cylindrical shape over one diagonal. Sorry for my bad English.
That problem is the spring not been the same. Simple solution is get 2-3 washers put under the spring with the right diameter and your there for lift all corner equal up which now than raises your bed all around by about 3mm so not you got a the bed to high which is what you want so you can now tighten the bed leveling down allowing you to have a firm and stiff spring loaded bed. 8 washers cost you less than $1
The problem you may have same as I had is the extruder itself is bent. Somehow those 2 screws holding the hot end heat sink in place allow for shifting of the printing head during shipment.
1 thing I've noticed with the CR-X is the Y carriage is a little too lightweight and the corners can easily bend. The easiest thing is to bend the low corner slightly up (use a adjustable wrench tightened down) or add shim to it. Yes, this should have been fixed and you shouldn't have to do this BUT we're still talking about a very capable machine for $800 USD. Prusa MK3 is $800 shipped in kit form and has its share of issues as well. The CR-10 series faces the corner issue (one corner being bent that is) as well and damage in shipping could be the cause. Second thing, for the test prints, I found that 1 sheet of paper works better for nozzle clearance.
The common issues with dual Z machines still exist on the CR-X but the good thing is that all the fixes for the CR-10 series will work. Dual Z is something that has to be maintained for the time being. Its important that the brass nut attaching screws are not tightened and that the wheels that move in Z are not gripping the extrusion more than "just barely." Often times, everything is tightened up on a new machine (obvious thing to do) and Z axis issues occur as a result.
I recently purchased a CR-10S 400mm as my first 3D printer, and had some similar issues with getting the bed leveled. The center of the bed had a slight dip, and I just couldn't get the front right corner high enough to achieve adequate level-ness. After some google research, I added 2 washers on the front right (and 1 washer everywhere else), and put two rows of tape down the center of the bed, under the build plate to "shim" up the center. After that, I was able to get the bed nearly perfectly level with the corner screws, and was able to make good prints.
Until I came home from work one day and found my 18 lbs cat sleeping on the bed :-/. It's good again after making some adjustments though!
I think there's another way to skip perfect bed leveling.
Just lift the model 2 or 4 mm upward and then let the 'PRINT SUPPORT' feature do the magic if you tune the support thickness to enough layer height, it might makes the bed leveling irrelevant for any 3d printer
People: if you have problems with a spring being too loose the simple fix is to add a washer or two where the spring sits to compress the spring. Now if the threaded rod in knob is too short as what seems to be the case in this video that can be changed for a longer matched thread bolt and use a printed knob handle to embed it into. (the easy fixes do not excuse creality for the problem in the first place)
Your looseness of the front right leveling screw, i had/have the same issue on my creality cr 10s except for me it was the rear right screw which was like your front right. Since the bed is glass and ridgid I ended up shimming with a couple pieces of paper between the glass and the bed. Now i can get functionality of all 4 leveling screws.
I had the opposite problem with my cr-10. Wouldn't get far enough from the bed and the prints smashed and clogged. Got a new hot-end and printed on the tape. Kind of annoying but works amazingly.
oh. one thing i had to do with my POS two-up was i had to buy 1.25" or 32mm springs and longer screws like you mention. that was the only way i could get the bed to level and print.
My A8 clone (Coocheer brand, has larger bed, A6-like interface with encoder knob etc) had a very similar issue. If it wasn't one corner low it was usually two opposite corners always being low while the other two would be too high. I especially noticed it after replacing the leveling setup hardware with knobs and springs from amazon....I eventually decided the aluminum bed carriage was too weak (and the new springs were even stiffer than stock) so if I didn't tighten down the knobs evenly, or even went too far with some knobs, rather than actually pulling that corner down it would start pulling the carriage up toward the bed, just making that corner just as tight to the nozzle and the other low corners just as low, if not worse.
To avoid this I just had to slacken them all fully and start from square one never going too crazy with one screw at a time, but nothing like this! Giving completely different homing results after leveling....insane.
I had the exact same issue with my S5. The front left screw would fall off and a z lead screw was messed up. The s5 however started seizing the X motor. Come to find out it's the result of a motherboard issue. 4 days owning the machine and I sent it back. End user products, regardless of weather or not their billed as a "tinkerers tool," shouldn't require this much trouble shooting out of the gate. After a few weeks of printing, sure. I would deal with that. Very disappointed in the lack of quality control on creality stuff so far.
your banding is probably caused by the heatbed not holding a straight tempcurve. You can try solving this by just print with the heatbed turned off and see if it does any improvements. If not, just remove the top attachment for the leadscrew and see if it moves when going from Z1 to Z200.
If it does the motor is positioned wrong. if its not moving, try print without it and see if its better, if so, you can replace the top attachment or shim it to see if its not positioned right.
take your hand and see if you have any play in your toolhead.. Creality isnt the best at installing the wheels properly and some if them can have some play.
Go to the bed leveling settings and make sure the printer is set to Z0.1 when checking the bed.. (papers are usually between 0.08-0.12mm
Angus, I actually have the exact same issue with my CR10S. In my case it is the Y-carriage itself that is bent, I'm pretty sure. I haven't found a pretty solution exactly, as I lack the proper tools to modify the carriage, so I've just been putting paper under the glass (or mirror, in my case, since the glass that came with the printer was pretty uneven and I live right next to IKEA), and piling on gluestick and tape as necessary. Not pretty, but it works just fine and the print quality is still excellent.
I had the leveling problem with my cr10s too but was able to get the lever on a more appropriate height fortunately. I have to say it's been working great ever since.
I had the same issue on my anet a8 after fitting a glass bed, The actual problem appeared to be that the corners that were correctly adjusted were acting as a pivot point, Try adjusting the the tightest one with the paper under the loose one and I think you may find that it should level out. Since having the problem I have started levelling the bed diagonally and I now use a 0.05mm or 0.002” feeler gauge which has been working great
You know what you should do? Base your final yes or no about whether to buy the printer on the item you receive. If they send you something with issues, assume all will ship with the same issues and warn people off the item. I'd imagine if all the 3d printing content creators showed a united front it would cause some serious changes to the lazy way these companies operate. It's now at the point where most people assume that the first iteration of a printer will be used to work out the bugs and frankly, we're all being used as beta testers.
Angus has already said that several times in videos, that he can't recommend them based on what he got out of the box. It keeps happening anyway. But also the companies can just stop sending him review units altogether. So he doesn't want to burn bridges, just highlight an issue that has been happening to get community support.
I have a CR-10 and it suffers from a bulge in the middle when the platform gets hot. I level the bed, and when I put the nozzle in the middle of the platform, it touches. It does not matter how I put the glass on the bed, I think it is a result of uneven heating.
Looking at your problem, can you try stretching the spring on the corner you are having problems with? That way, your spring will push the build plate up farther...just a thought:)
Thanks for the content!
There are 2 washers on each side of the springs on mine and plenty or travel on the bed springs. I have been enjoying mine for the last 3 weeks. Just messing with the Fw a little looking at going to 1.1.9. It certainly needs some quality tweaks for the price though a nice platform if your someone that enjoys doing that.
Thank you Angus. I agree that what you've received, is unlikely to be the same as what people receive as a production unit. And even if you correct all the faults you find, and get it to print reliably, unless every printer of this model from Creality starts with the same problem, the fixes you provide them as feedbacks, are probably not going to result in end users getting the printer you end up with.
Wondering if there may be an issue with the right rail for the bed that may be dropping the right front as the bed moves to put the nozzle at the front of the bed. If checking the xplate doesn't show a problem, that might be something else to check.
Your thumbnail made me think of 3D printing a decorated box around a gift. It could be extremely thin and fragile so opening it would involve its destruction, but that would be part of the fun. Thoughts?
Just got my CR-X and leveling is fine. I looked at the leveling mechanism and a short leveling screw would cause the knob to be at the very end when they adjust to fit the foam packing. The screw could also be screwed too far into the metal platform. Did you take the glass off. My guess is they had a few short screws in the screw bin on the assembly line. This happens. As far as the beta testing, some people give a free sample so they can get feedback. The user should talk to them and get replacements parts if needed, IMHO Not go on youtube and whine.
I had the same problem with a similar printer but solved it by lowering the bed and squishing the springs. I made my own bracket for the z stop screw but on your printer you colud cut off some material from the limitswitch holder.
Check the hot end mounting screws. My ender 3 the screws were loose and may be part of the problem
I've just received a CR-10S Pro which looks like more-or-less the same machine without a dual extruder. I've spent nearly two whole days trying to get this printer going; levelling and checking settings. It didn't work out of the box, it'd dropped to bits in transit and there's no detailed documentation to set these up other than the initial levelling and build. If there's anything else wrong, you're on your own. This is my 2nd Chinese printer, I have a Qidi X-one as well. It seems to me that you are the QA, final inspection and tech support. Both printers did not work out of the box and you're expected to figure a lot out for yourself. Having said that, once they're working they print really well if you can be bothered to tinker and experiment Qidi in particular was helpful with parts but always wanted video evidence of the faults. I'm happy, but I'm not sure you can call them consumer products (are they intended to be?). You have to mess around with them in a way that Western consumers don't normally tolerate. I think because they're aimed and engineers and makers we put up with stuff most would reject the product for and I think Angus' video "Serious concerns with 3D printer quality control" hit's the nail square on the head. You wouldn't buy a inkjet printer or DVD player and expect to rebuild it, figure out why it's not working right and align it, you'd reject it as are your consumer rights. I'm not convinced with the dual Z axis stepper system on these, I think that's where some of the levelling issues lay. Mine wouldn't raise level for a day due to my mistaken belief the leadscrew nuts should be tightened at the M3 screws holding it to the head gantry brackets. There's deliberate play engineered into the top bearings, if it's not there, the steppers stall and the gantry twists.
I've seen the argument that these are cheap to buy and this can be expected, but the CR-X and CR-10S Pro aren't $200-$300 cheapies. Yes, they're feature packed but they should still work as intended when you get them.
i had the same issue with the corner being too low on my CR10s. They used lock nuts on the bed to attached it and oen of them just wasn't close to be tightened. After adjusting ith elped a TON with bedleveing.
I have the same problem with my Ender 3, it is only 220mm x 220mm. And when I use a single sheet of paper and make it too tight after homing I can get 5 sheets of paper under the nozzle.
I'm encountering the exact same problem with the CR-10S that I just bought. Think I'm going to have to stretch the spring out some. The exact same corner has that issue on my machine.
I have a $1000 CR10-5s that has all of these same problems. Stopped using it after a few months. I spent more time leveling than printing. CR Facebook group told me it was my fault and not the company.
They are obviously using reviewers/creators like you, Joel, Joe, and others as their Beta Testers. No matter how many disclaimers you voice, these manufacturers are doing themselves a terrible disservice here. There will obviously be viewers who are turned permanently away from considering an expensive machine like this - in favor of cheaper alternatives. Doing some tweaking/repairing on less costly machines can be justified somewhat. But, a machine in the price range of a genuine Prusa? Nah - buyers will go elsewhere. One chance at first impressions and all that.
Keep putting the pressure on them Angus - that seems to be the only strategy that has a chance in hell of working. Buyer beware, as always. Thanks for telling it as it really is.
I have the exact same problem with the bend ans springs on my CR-10 S5. I had to change the springs to something bigger and stiffer.
I had nothing but problems with my CR10 S4. I ended up disassembling the entire thing and reassembling piece by piece. While i was at it i also 3d modelled the whole printer in the process. That file can be found on Thingiverse. In the end i got it printing decent. Crazy thing is that it doesnt print nearly as well as my Flashforge Creator.
On someone'S video (don't remember who exactly, hopefully it's not you :-) ) he mentioned that the back corner where the bed cable are attached, have a plastic part between the bed and the spring. he actually added washer to the other corners to put the same pressure on all four corners.
Chances are the support aluminium under the bed was bent at that corner during shipping, it's worth a look...
For the cr10 s5, I had the same problemo with that one same corner you have, and had to add a extra spring and washers to it, that wasnt easy to make it dial in. It was advertised as being a upgrade version, and listed all the different plastics it was supposed to have no problems printing. It listed em all. Yet, the heatbed never can reach 110c for ABS, and ABS is why I wanted the printer. The thing takes an hour to reach 82 to 85, it maxes out at 85, and that resulted in many failed attempts at printing, eating up supplies and time. Thats frustrating, and did expect better. Then noticed a 3rd party heatbed upgrade, yet the price for that was 400 US! The 3rd party prices between their next smaller size if I remember was something like 250 about, and found it a rude slap in the face just in the major difference in going from the 400mm heater, to the extra 100mm to match the 500mm build volume. What gives there? Greed? Yes. Greed alright. So, creatility really dropped the ball on that issue, and so did the 3rd party upgrade supplier.
It's possible to include a 5 dollar or so MOSFET and add a extra 20v power supply for that, and it is said to heat up in 15 minutes. So why didnt creality make the effort to boost it with a MOSFET and better power supply?
That irks me really..
I can overlook the missing microSD card that was missing, but that heatbed concern and the poorly thought out alignment springy thing, that is the sort of thing they really should've put more into the factory build, rather than to leave purchasers scratching their hair as it falls out faster because of that, and from reading about the very troubling political world news lately (Thought I'd throw that world news thing in because its true, as someone who cares about the world and its inhabitants).
Yes, much needs to be done to raise the bar for the quality of life for ALL, including the planet itself, and creality too, though creality's design modifications in their factory is going to be much easier, with dedication to raising that bar, to lead by best example for other companies to follow suit.
Other than that, the printer has a lot of potential soon.
One complaint i read from others is that they say the build plate glass is often not properly flat, and has a bit of a reverse les paul guitar effect to its shape in the middle of it, causing people to toss the original plate and source out a nearby glass supplier.
If you try to run the machine fast, it will skip lines of code and thats another thing, so maybe going to a 32 bit controller right out of the box would be an ideal thing for creality to consider as well.
Also, if these larger volume devices are capable of larger printjobs, the inclusion of larger diameter nozzles should be included with these printers even if resolution isn't the highest by doing that, it does make for print jobs that wont take 5 years to complete. Lol
A lighting option would also be a good plus, even a basic box along the lines of in pieces like an ikea thing, or you will end up with a plastic tarp over the machine, or making a comical enclosure for it such as joel made for it. Lol sorry Joel, that was a funny presentation with the foam sheets with the help of Punished Props. Maybe it was a friday build, or there was beer.
True Tech also bought my cr10s for Abs. Now using smaller volume printers for abs without problems. Cr had a good idea but they didn’t test their product.
Hello Angus. Do you know if the CR-X sell today by Creality are final product and have the problems corrected?
I'm interested to see what the fixes are, the Creality S5 has had similar issues with the bed. I'd also be super keen to see a video sometime on what people believe the things are on Chinese printers that should be standard by now. i.e. the areas where the manufacturer should be spending a little more, what would that be? Would it be having ABL, better PFTE tubing, higher quality steppers, linear slides instead of V-wheels, heavier extrusion etc. What areas would a little bit of extra cost and quality be the places that would make the most difference?
I have a similar scenario with my Ender 3. Shipped from the new batch w/ Laser and Glass bed, direct from Hong Kong in the last week. The RHS and the front Right in particular are difficult to level, the screws are close to their extremes of travel. The Aluminium plate on the top was flat, but as you measured on your unit, the supporting gantry is warped.
Is the material used for the gantry Aluminium or Steel? I ask because if there is part of the laser/plasma cutting process that is causing the part to warp in this manner on a consistent basis that would explain the bed level issues of a similar nature across a few models and batches.
InsaneFreak
Your Ender 3 came with a glas bed?!? wtf I got mine 5 days ago and didn't get one :/
Did you order direct from the creality store? It was an option. Was a bit more money though.
InsaneFreak
Oh ok, I got mine from gearbest... I saved 30€ compared to to glas bed version in the creality store. Enough to buy a cheap piece of glas myself :P
I have just used the creality glass bed, and compared to their build surface it's awesome. The glass has a painted texture on the printing side. As it cools the parts literally popped themselves off the bed.
InsaneFreak
Awesome. I have already scratched the build surface by trying to get off residue that really melted into the surface. Now I'm using Magigoo that reduces the adhesion a bit on this surface but I will definitely switch to glas as soon as possible.
I had the exact same problem with my shitty Tronxy X3. The reason was that the single profile for the wheels of the bed was twisted around the y axis. So the bed rotated slightly around the y axis. I believe that the two profiles of the CR-X are not in the same plane. That would explain it completely.
Maybe the Chinese companies need to find some Angus-like people who want to be beta testers, and send them the pre-production models to get the community feedback. UA-camrs whose channel is all about pre-production printers that are coming out soon. That way the company gets a beta test done, with it clear to everyone that is what is happening. Then they can get a follow up video a few weeks later with the fixes that the company has implemented etc. and so on. Public beta programs, where printers aren't sold until they are functional, but we all get the advantages that widespread feedback gives. Then the companies, if they continue to improve the products in the future, need to sell or send out 'upgrade kits' to get the printer you bought early to have the improvements that have come about as time goes on. This would help the hobbyist, but still allow the low prices that we enjoy, i.e. it would address the people who are happy to hack as a hobby, as well as someone who wants to just buy a printer that works out of the box.
It might be “pre-production” but they must have thought they had all the flaws figured out if they were willing to send it out for reviews. If they can miss flaws once with this product, they can do it again when they send it to customers.
They still sent a machine that can't print anything successfully. How is he supposed to review it? Also, it doesn't sound like they sent a long a list of known issues, so he can't even say the company knows about these flaws already and are fixing them. They would have gotten a better review if they had just chucked a bunch of random parts in a box and told him to build his own.
Hey Angus, I love 3D printing but since getting a 3D printer I’ve noticed that I’m really sensitive to the fumes, even PLA. I know you’ve mentioned it before but could you talk more in depth about fume and air quality management around 3D printing for those that are sensitive to it? Thanks!
I am having a problem with crx reading so cards I have printed a few print but now it won’t show anything on the cards iam using reality slicer and cura both show files on the card. G-code and stls
I think you can just bent the specific conner of the metal plate under the aluminum back up a little bit, cause it was bent down during shipping.
The Gcode Z coordinates are added on top of the paper thickness, are they not? Does that not mean the paper should be fairly tight against the nozzle?
I have a CR-10S with Cura 3.4.0 that works as Mr. Hartmann describes. I must adjust the bed so that the machine Z-zero (bed level/home) and the slicer specified initial layer height add up to the proper initial height. I use a combination of arithmetic and z-axis offset to do this. For example, using a feeler gauge (I have plastic), I can level the bed at 0.100 mm, then specify the initial layer height in Cura (G-code) as 0.100 mm to achieve 0.200 mm initial height, or I can level the bed at 0.100 mm, then subtract that value with the z offset in Cura (build plate adhesion), then specify the actual initial layer height. Also, I can adjust bed level to barely touch but not mash into the bed, then the slicer specified layer height is the actual height.
I have another brand 3D printer that levels differently.
5 years after the fact, did you fix it. I have a CR-X that gathered dust for years and it's hard to go back after K1 and X1C, would like to make a clipper machine bit my bed also never levels
Maybe they should change the threaded rod length and add spacers to increase spring tension.
I had that leveling same issue with one of the larger cr10s models (500mm). That and the printer basically shook itself to death...
I had this bed levelling problem happen with a chinese 3D printer I got of Ali, what fixed it in the end was using M851 to set the offset then using an M500 to set it in the EEPROM. It seemed to print fine after that. Not sure why it was happening but the printer I was running was using and old version of Marlin, so maybe it's related?
they dont do preproduction units just presale beta test is the customer since day 1 with the cr 10 same with cr 10 mini ender 2/ 3
I suspect that one or both of the V slot rails for the bed are bowed, and or misaligned. If that is the case you would never get all 4 points level. I would rebuild with one wide V slot extrusion.
One thing that I have noticed in my "LONG" 1+ years of 3d printing is that printing beds are usually not flat.. If yours is flat count yourself lucky..
Depending how the bed is manufactured (cut/ stamped/ machined) Bed "base zero" flatness can be ridiculous to outright Rick and Morty "perfect Level" precision. Also precision manufacture will cost more .. The smaller the bed the more flat precise it is, and as we go to larger and larger beds, the flatness of the bed becomes a greater problem.. Now I solved my problems with a BLTouch type of sensor which has an accuracy of around 10% of my first layer thickness. I have had inductive and capacitive sensors but their accuracy was on the order of near my first layer thickness and wouldn't work with some surfaces.. I'm not selling these type of sensors, but I think something like them should be standard equipment on all FDM printers..
Flat screen TV's also had this problem it was very hard to make 51inch screens without defects and because of that cost 10 to 15 thousand dollars. Now after 15-20 years, with new and cheaper methods, everyone can purchase one for under 500 dollars...
I'd love 3d printers to be perfect but alas not yet...
Have you thought about having a thick price of mirror cut for the bed? 6mm thick? Should raise the bed surface enough, no?
You're a genius Angus, i bet you can fix it and maybe, just maybe, show again your nice good boy smile while taking about this printer. I belive in my ignorant noob thinking that maybe this so big platform needs 5 screws to flatten it and not just 4
Either the gcode is wrong (layer height), the firmware settings are off, the bed is warped, the tramming is off (left/right side not level), or the hot end needs to be closer. I would figure with all the printers you have built that you would have already taken it apart and verified it wasn't a warped bed first. There are tons of use with CR-10s that had warped beds and warped glass even when we got our printers. The beds of these printers are made of rolled aluminum instead of plate. Every person that takes a tool to them has been off but I would expect there to be an issue with the firmware. Why they didn't include their copy-ABL sensor setup is beyond me. Why pay that much for a printer without a sensor?
I having same problem with my ender 3 when I installed their new glass, I think the aluminum bed is forced to be straight, I solve the problem when I remove the glass and put removable bed sheet and releveled it. I already sent this video to creality and hope they find the fix for this problem
But if the first layer already has the proper Z offset (layer height) then a folded piece of paper (~0.4mm) would mean that the first layer is 0.6mm high, but the printer is extruding enough plastic to cover 0.2mm, so no wonder that the print doesn't stick.
I level my printers with a receipt, because it's the thinnest thing that I usually have around.
To be fair, i would expect these issues on a prototype/pre-production, but to send these units out to a reviewer instead of some internal QA testing seems a bit daft. Im sure these issues will get fixed but prototypes/pre-production models with significant issues should never be released to customers or reviewers. I know customers demand low prices and high quality, but customers dont really get either with this printer.
Look ItsRain Pretty sure theres no dedicated QA department. Theyre a pretty small company from what Ive heard.
Even getting one person internally to use this thing for a solid week would suffice. It's one thing if problems occur every 1000 units, it's another if it plagues every unit. From there then you are upfront and you can task reviewers with a model to beta test. After the feedback, exchange for a final product.
I'd say a lot of these businesses need to pursue a better QA procedure and not be a race to the cheapest option. Of course it's easier said then done when so many will buy cheap.
Honestly I'm just surprised we haven't seen HP/DELL/GOOGLE/MICROSOFT/APPLE just snatch up one of these companies and build their own.
SexyCyborg did a factory tour on her channel recently. It didn't seem all that small to me. They easily have a couple hundred employees in just that one location and I've heard they have at least 2 factories. Plus, they obviously have a team of people designing new products. It seems like they just drew up a concept on a pc and didn't bother to test the concept before throwing parts in a box to ship. Just putting it together and trying to print something would have showed them several flaws that shouldn't have made it passed the front door.
I had the same problem with my JGAurora A5 where the bed was slightly warped.. to fix that I had to do "mesh bed leveling". It takes like half an hour but it worked quite well
Awesome video Dood but Not a single creality printer has printed anything well off the sd card provided, can you do a video when you experience problems whilst using s3d to set your first layer height etc? I would be supprised if you had the same issues. Mine is being delivered Tuesday from. Apparently a good batch :)
I'm liking the Ender 3, working like a champ. Hope they work out the bugs so there's a reasonable upgrade path.
Thanks Angus. Always glad to get supplemental info after a live stream. Cheers, JAYTEE
I’d say your fixes for this machine are pretty creative.
Ok I just got a new unit and ok it is my first printer and prob not the best choice but hey I so far have only one issue but this also is due to living in an old house with not the best of insulation to fend of the cold but have got one good print to finish and it ain't bad but I'm going to go with a taped bed sheet .. to see if that helps but I've also plans to build a cabinet to keep the temp up for winter....
The other pain is the TF micro sd card
I wish they would switch to the induction end stops or whatever it is that tevo uses. I also get sometimes inconsistent zero on the Z. Clearly there are inconsistencies in that first run where everyone is getting slightly different tolerances on their machines.
I am normally quite forgiving of creality. I rather like their beta run fix it make it better constantly style of manufacturing (since no other chinese manufacturer does this ie they don't fix their issues) BUT. this is their "pro line" of printers. (CR-20 and CR-X) with price tags to match. still crazy cheap for what it is but expensive for what they typically make.
IT SHOULD be mostly right out of the box and I am glad you and joel are holding a bit of fire under their feet for it. Keep up the great work and I hope you get it going. it is a rather enjoyable machine once you get it working right.
The pb with a lot of KIT is this bended plate (on 5 CR10/10S, 4 were bent , had to level with some tape).
well the ender 3 i got from them was junk. it under extrudes all the time. replaced the bowden tube, the cupplers, extruder gear but it always under extrudes. the estep skips and jumps back
Maker's Muse, Have you fix the unusual issues lines on your print horizontal line not lining up properly with the Z axis on Creality CR-X
Looks like it's time to pull out the BIG hammer 😁
Your levelling issues are basically what my CR-10 has been like since it arrived :(
Don't these "manufacturers" realize that one bad model release can break the brand?
What are they thinking???? Or are they...
I think it´s a firmware issue, I experienced similar behaviour with a DIY machine. After Z homes the offset adds a value to the Z coordinate and sets the new value as 0:00 so when the machine gets to start the print it is actually not at 0,2 but at 0,2+ the offset.
the Solution was to disable the 1mm Bumb after Z-homing. a warped bed highlights that effect even more.
Cheers for the feedback! I am leaning more and more towards a firmware issue. I'll see if they have any update I can flash to it.
Maker's Muse . I suspect that a division error (induced by a weird steps/mm setting) may throw off the calculation and adds up. a print that already runs would show no sign of something wrong. If the bed would be able to get close enough you would just se inconsistency on the first layer...and the issue would be not detectable as such.
I have also run into this on one of my machines. My solution was to use paper to level the bed, but then adjust the z-offset another .3mm to accommodate the .3mm lift that the printer was making for the .3mm first layer.
It’s not a firmware issue. It’s how some 3D printers work. When the printer is told in G-code to go to a specific height, it goes to that height above the bed (above z=0). Some slicers, like the one that comes with the Creality (Cura), will raise z to different layer heights optimized for a given quality, adhesion and other factors. The best first layer height is not always the thickness of paper. A procedure must be used to level the bed so that zero means zero.
Also, it is common to have to adjust the tension of the eccentric rollers beneath the bed on a new Creality (and check that all fasteners and cables are tight). That was the reason the front right corner of the bed on my new CR-10s was still too low at it’s maximum adjustment (also the right z motor mount was loose). While it might be nice to have better quality control, having to pay for it might piss off Creality’s customers.
To say "It's how some 3D Printers work" means it is in the firmware. Whether that firmware is Marlin or something else, it is something in the firmware that is telling it to go up .3mm above 0 or to assume that Z 0 is the starting point for the layer.
Hi all, Would it be easier to have a couple watches under the springs ?, And would it be easier to have a thicker aluminum bed plate too ?. Thanks
Does the CR-X have VTEC?
Callum Smith Lmao
My CR-10S had a slightly tweaked bed holder on arrival on one arm, small nudge closer to straight and it now levels well with similar spring tensions. On the false leveling sounds like a Z offset in Firmware maybe?
Keep up the content and the Battle :)
Why don't you heat up the bed and nozzle to printing temperature before leveling the bed? I always thought this is highly recommended due to thermal expansion of the parts?In your case only the front right corner of the bed isn't adjustable, but what if you place a small printjob in the rear left corner with propper leveling at the beginning? Maybe the first layer sticks a little better...Also the printer seems to have a serious problem with Z wobble!
Because this is a set up to frame Creality.
He's clearly sponsored by someone who saw a competitor in Creality and now he's working on removing the competitor.
Sincerely, do you really believe that person with so much experience in design and manufacturing would forget about three point plane definition?
And if he really doesn't know what is this mysterious "three point plane definition" then he should be a moron and none of his "technical advices" should be valid.
because preheating sucks for leveling damned nozzle oozes. I never preheat to level and never have an issue.
So, Joel, Joe, and Angus all have similar issues with this printer and you say it is a setup to frame Creality? That tin foil hat might be a bit tight on your head there good sir.
Ed, do you really think that in the case of framing plotter would hire just a single youtuber?
Hi Angus, the shown first layer problem is exactly the same, what I experienced with my CR-10: no matter, how accurate I level, the first layer is printed far to high. May this be a firmware failure? When I discussed this in various forums, I only get the answer "level closer", but this never helped. I'm very curious, how you can solve this issue on your CR-X.
Looks like the home offset's off, my cr10 originally had this issue, but then I changed up the home offset.. unsure whaht the firmware's like though
Add a washer to that loose corner to bring up that side.
cant you just cut the spring down a little so you can then screw the right lower corner adjuster. ?
all this new machines ... what count are the rock solid working horses. the ones which have shown that quality and reliability is worth the price. possibly we should speak more about those ? Esp. the technology hasn‘t changed. so a lot of older machines are much better than the new ones ?