That first mom forgiving her son for HITTING his sisters is disgusting. Not only is she teaching her son that it's okay to hit people because you "had a bad day" she's also teaching her daughters that abuse is forgivable because he just "had a bad day". 🤮
The delivery sounds too fake to be real. Not that people like her dont exist but given when it was posted and how much she began to milk it when it went viral, its either satire or ragebait.
My uncle let my cousins do the opposite. His two daughters were allowed to hit and punch their brother but if he stood up for himself or hit back he would getting punished for "hitting women." Incredibly gross on both sides. Teaching kids not to hit regardless of gender is basic ass parenting. Just because a kid is having a bad time doesn't mean they get to lash out and beat other people. They need to learn appropriate emotional regulation for their age and it changes as they grow, but hitting people is not ok.
@@BaA-zz4pq Yes and I’m from a culture where this is extremely common and romanticized. That’s also how I know she is faking it. Her acting is too forced. She can still be misogynist but I’ve been in the internet long enough to see manufactured ragebait.
As a survivor of incest, I know how absolutely devastating it is to victims. Emotional incest is no less dangerous and should be taken just as seriously. Mothers who develop these inappropriate relationships with their sons are 100% preying on them and using them.
It can be a type of grooming, teaching their kids to be dependent on them and unable to function without them and there's still that same power dynamic. Just because there may not be an inappropriate sexual relationship doesn't mean the relationship is fine... And often these mom's do sexualise their sons, just like some dads sexualising their daughters and the "daddy's girl" trope. It's super gross.
I feel like my ex husbands mom was like this she acted like he was her husband . She would call to tell him she’s sick when I was in the hospital and he would leave me to go to her 4 hours away .. and then not come home. SHE HAS A HUSBAND. Her husband should have been with her not mine . I would understand if she was in the same city and he came back to me but yea I’m sorry this happened to you
As someone who was in a long-term relationship with the adult son of a boy-mum, I can honestly say, it's HELL. I felt like she was competing with me for all 4 years. So thank you so much for talking about how damaging this all is!
You lasted long... I wouldn't bother even a month... Not worth it - in the end even if he decides to cut of the monster its takes years of therapy to fix that damage... Hell to the no
Was engaged to an abusive mama's-boy and his boy-mom drove to my house to scream in my face, cuss me out, and call me names bc i was taking care of my sick dog for a night instead of spending the night with him while he was anxious. He was staying with his mom bc he was too anxious to be alone so he was taken care of?
When my son married last August I sobbed. With happiness and joy. I brought him up alone. He has married a wonderful woman. I expect now to take second place, his first priority is his wife. But we have a great relationship. They both came to see me immediately upon my cancer diagnosis. I’ve never tried to hold onto him. We all video call every Sunday and he has always come home summer and Christmas.. that continues and it is wonderful. He isn’t my possesion.
You sound like you did well raising him, and loving him well and appropriately, thus continuing to do so. Best of luck with your treatment and recovery with your diagnosis!
I don’t know you at all, but I’m unbelievably proud of you. This is what being a mother of a boy, but NOT a “boy mom” means. You sound like you’ve done well. I wish you good luck with your diagnosis❤️
Warning for parents: Once the young adult child figures out it's their parents that caused their inability to have healthy adult relationships - the child will BLAME AND RESENT THE PARENTS. My sister and I barley talk to our mom and never speak to our dad. I hope how they treated us as kids was worth it??????
Half the time (in my experience) even though the grown children are resentful towards their parents for making them useless/unloveable those kids still wind up going back to their parents for companionship/comfort, so in the end the parents still got their way.
!!!!!!!! Yup. And I really appreciate how Mickey is explaining that these values are taught through sometimes subtle behaviors and conditions that aren’t inherently big or violent. Bc when my parent asks for specific instances of emotional incest (bc she’s denying it happened) it’s hard to like pinpoint an actual event
The ones who openly talk about how much they favor their sons over their daughters break my heart. No baby deserves to feel second class in their own family. 💔
Especially when they post it online. Like even if they didn’t say that in front of their daughters, their daughters can still find their posts/videos online. Not to mention how embarrassing it is that thousands of people they don’t even know are seeing the parent express favoritism
It’s very common with “girl dads” in evangelical Christian circles to have emotionally incestuous relationships. They act like their daughters are the younger versions of their wives or mothers that they can puppet. It’s terrifying to grow up that way, especially if you’re also LGBTQIA+
Why would it be more terrifying if you are LGBTQIA+? A full grown adult and parent in a “romantic” relationship to a minor and child is incest, terrifying, and gross at all levels, no matter what the child identifies as.
My mom is an evangelical Christian and she was that was towards me. Super weird. Like it makes me wanna throw up. Idk if it counts as emotional incest bc I don’t think she’s like gay or anything to be attracted to me in that way but it was very close. Ew ew ew
Yeah ive even heard about those weird religious Daddy and Daughter ceremonies where the girls are basically promising their purity and whatnot to their dads. They act like their daughters owe them chastity, it grosses me out. Its one thing to worry about their kids’ sexual wellbeing and health but another to obsess over it
@@ksis86 yeah, I think they are called promise rings, it's a whole ceremony where the girl (normally in her preteens i think) makes a promise to her dad to be chaste, and he gives her a ring to symbolise that. Disgusting
My mom told me she had me so that she could "have the relationship she didn't have with her mom". Most of this stems from unresolved trauma and grooming a child to meet their needs. It's sick. I am a woman, and she essentially used me to fill any role of relationship she lacked. Spousal, best friend, therapist etc. Thank you for shedding light on children being both parentified and infantilising simultaneously. It is devastating and destructive to grow up in this kind of environment, it's not cute, funny, or trendy to admit in a "silly" TikTok.
Thank you posting this. This whole video has been very eye opening. My mom said the same thing to me too. The boundaries between a parent and child are non existent. I didn’t realize how bad until I moved away. But now my parent’s health’s are declining and I get sucked back in with every phone call.
Thank you for writing that. I was raised the same. I still live with my parents, and the worst thing is I was the one who understood the situation was wrong a few years ago, and I am the one who is trying to change that, explain, set boundaries, and reparent myself; which is ironic, considering I am once again taking on a role of a parent. It baffles me how immature parents can be and how they romanticise that.
This reminds me of something from the podcast Childproof. One of the hosts said something like, "part of my job as a parent is to be my kid's first friend, but they are not my friend." And I really like that framing. A parent's job is to teach a child how to be a person. Part of that is how to be a friend and how to treat other people. But it's not a reciprocal relationship. And the goal of that teaching is for the child to have healthy relationships with other people. The hosts of the podcast also often say, "we're parenting ourselves out of a job," meaning that the goal of parenting is that your children eventually don't need you. Ideally they still want you in their lives, but if you've succeeded in your job, they are no longer dependent on you. This boy mom stuff seems to be the opposite of that. I'm also struck by the fact that we understand that men who are overprotective of their daughters ("no dating until you're 30" type of stuff) is problematic, so why is this different?
I don’t know if you’ve found any ideas to answer your question but I’d like to chime in that it may be due to how young girls are treated. Similar to why people have different reactions when people say “imagine it was your daughter”. If it was any random woman they don’t care much but if it’s their daughter specifically it seems like they switch up.
I don't see it as different, and my feeling is that boy mums and mommy boys are perceived as very problematic. The mommy boy who is still living with mommy at age 40 and turns out to be a serial k1ller of prostitutes is a well-known cliché.
My ex had a really, really inappropriate relationship with his mom, he wouldn’t even say he loved me in front of her (we were engaged) because he “didn’t want to hurt her feelings” and I can’t help but feel bad now, because she was so intertwined in his life. I’m so glad I left, but I can’t help but feel bad.
My MIL was like this too, along with a lot of other crazy. I really believe that women that treat their sons (or kids) this way already have abusive/controlling tendencies and have learned that this Marie Barone-type overbearing mom way of handling their kids, because they just love them sooo much, is socially acceptable for a woman and provides a lot of plausible deniability for all their narcissistic drama
The only healthy thing you could do was leave. That’s a situation which would have been detrimental for you, and you would not have been able to help him if he’s not ready or doesn’t recognise the issue. It would’ve just been a constant tug of war between you and the abusive mum.
Currently in this relationship and yeah you shouldn't feel bad. I mean it is sad for the boy/man. Really tragic. But I feel like I've been robbed of a happy life for staying. I can't believe it took this long for both of us to realize just how bad it is. We're only starting to make steps now to find ways to deal with it after more than 10 years of it being a constant issue. Worst part is we both worked for her for a long time too so we never got to push back, never felt secure if she wasn't happy. I've spent waaayyy more time trying to make this woman happy than I ever have for anyone else. She feels like a part of our relationship and she's always one of the main factors in any of our decisions. It's a fucking nightmare. At this point we're saving up money to move far away.
Man, I am incredibly grateful for my mother in law. She and my husband are close, but not in a weird way, and she was like "yay, bonus daughter" not "boo, rival for my son's affection" when he and I got serious.
As an only child of a seriously messed up family....hearing that maybe I'll some day have a mom-in-law that's like "yay bonus daughter" almost made me cry.
Yes my husband had a deep healthy relationship with his mom (now passed on) and when we got engaged she embraced me and my kids from a previous relationship as part of the family. I used to love to visit her and my FIL and they were so awesome to us. My MIL was a blessing!
The part about girls and their fathers and the "my dad has a shotgun" trope made me think about someone I knew who got married to her boyfriend of many years. At the wedding her dad said to the boyfriend (paraphrasing) "remember if you decide to hurt her, I have a lot of guns". Cut to several years later, she divorced him for a number of reasons, but guess whose side her parents took? Yeah, they decided it must have been her fault for not trying hard enough, and that he was blameless despite years of evidence of him being a deadbeat.
It’s all about supporting the (bullshit) traditional community values. The tough dad shit is a “ honor” culture signifier, and when she got a divorce, she embarrassed her father because now he has an aging unmarried daughter. I saw the exact same thing happen with a close relative who was in an abusive relationship.
@@PlayerTenji95 how is it embarrassing for her parents? It sounds like they don't actually care that much about her if they're saying the divorce was her fault (when the husband wasn't putting equal effort into it) and that splitting was necessary if she wanted a more fulfilling life. If anyone should be embarrassed, it's the ex-husband.
We millenials had the whole "daddy's little girl" parenting. My dad called me and my sister "his little girls" and was grossly over protective of us, used us as emotional support, and grossly bragged on how pretty we were yet got upset if someone agreed a little too much, etc. Raised me to not be reliant on any man too much but then had the nerve to say that his goal was to raise me to be a good wife a few years ago 🤮 it also was the theme of many songs sung from a dad to daughter. Thanks for talking about this and how messed up it is
I’ve noticed that, particularly with country songs around that time, the songs about daughters and the songs about wives are eerily similar at times. Which is gross going either direction.
My dad is so overprotective that I am almost 22 and don't have a license, and wasn't allowed to start dating till I was 21. I now have an amazing bf and I am making plans to move out but not saying anything to my parents about it.
@@honeybee3196 How tf are they going to tell someone over 18 they can't date??? Omfg I hope you get out of there soon, some advice though, if you decide to get married, do a prenup. Don't quit your job and become a "stay at home", if things go sour with your current bf (hopefully it doesn't) have a backup plan and DO NOT become financially dependent on on him. Too many young women face this problem when they leave their abusive parents and don't see the red flags in future romantic relationships.
@BloodInTheStrawberries they still tell me what to do bc I still live with them, and trust me I'm not gonna be doing the stay at home bs I can't stand being home all the time
Once I cut off a highschool 'friend' over this. Her dad was weird af with her, publicly babying and princessing and fawning on her constantly, as me being someone with the opposite type of father (also abusive but in a rejecting dismissive way) this came across to me as offputting.
18:21 I'm so glad Mickey said this. just because an adult says it's a joke, doesn't mean the kid understands that. my mum could be quite passive aggressive (she still is but I just internally roll my eyes now) when I was a kid and would say things were "jokes" but they would more often than not turn out to be 'hints' at what she actually thought or felt, so I was never sure. often people say something they know they shouldn't and then hide behind it being a "joke". and even in the case that it is a joke, very often are not in a stage in their development where they can either sense when someone is joking, or even if they logically know it's a joke, their nervous system reads it as serious. not saying you can't joke around and be funny with your kids, but not when it comes to saying emotionally abusive "jokes" also as a side note - don't 'hint' at things to anyone, but especially not your children. it's not anyone's job to read your mind and you need to learn to clearly communicate rather than making your kids anxiously guess what they did wrong because you won't just tell them. it was very damaging to me and i am still unlearning the feeling if constantly trying to figure out what i did wrong even in situations where no one is mad at me
We have a saying in my country "It's through jokes one tells the truth". Always pay attention to "jokes", it could say something aboit what the person thinks
It's just like my two cousins and the kind of 'jokes' they say to their kids (and 2 out of the 3 of them are autistic, which makes it even worse since neurodivergent kids have an even stronger tendency to take things literally), things like 'Bye, I'm leaving forever, I'm never coming back', things that are horribly damaging to a little kid if they can't read between the lines. Or in the case of the child who is highly sensitive and cries easily, they showed me a video of them yelling her full name for absolutely no reason other than to make her cry, laughing about how she's too 'sensitive'. She. Was. A. BABY!!! 😡🤬 Babies will cry anytime someone yells, regardless of what words they're saying. It also hurt even more seeing that since I'm autistic and I'm also a HSP (highly sensitive person), so this kid is like a mini-me. 😢
I’m having a baby boy in April and I’m so excited. I can’t wait to teach him about healthy emotional intimacy, and how to cook and clean like a functional adult. It blows my mind how many men make it to adulthood without learning basic life skills.
Congrats ❤ My husband can cook and clean but his mom still thinks she's his real wife after 18 years of us being together 😂 My son is 4 years old and I don't get the weird attachment other moms have to their sons but he is different from my girls in how he needs me so I can see how a mom with emotional issues might cling to that connection.
@@joanna0988 Omg, that's so bizarre, I love my son, he is our rainbow baby, but I cannot imagine getting so weird about his future partners or having such an inappropriate emotional relationship with him. I have my husband for that, our son is wonderful and I love him so much, but that's because he is out baby ♥️ So many women honestly do not have healthy relationships neither with their partners nor sons
Because of gender roles men aren’t expected to cook and clean. But women are. Even decent parents will forget to teach their boys to cook because they’re expected to marry women as soon as they leave college.
Yeah I have two boys and could NEVER imagine acting the way these moms do. My husband and I are teaching our kids the same things. So glad that there’s other “boy moms” that are going to raise their boys to be normal,healthy, and functional adults.😅
A lot of this is also about gender roles and shit. Like gender elitism. Little girls and little boys have a lot in common we just treat them like separate species because of expectations based on the child perceived gender.
Yes. Exactly. For example, I've heard people say things like, "I want to have a boy first so he can protect his little siblings." Like boys are always expected to be the protector. I was the oldest in my family and had no problem protecting my younger siblings if I had to. Lol
Being hyper focused on the gender of your child let’s you miss who they are as a whole person. My son has many qualities, some of which are stereotypically male-violent video games, messy room, questionable hygiene at times-but also so many that are coded “female”: artistic, emotionally sensitive, etc.
It’s true. My son has 3 girl cousins, and they are all so similar and so different (probably because their 3 different people) but all three love rock climbing, trampolines, legos, and dolls.
I am a survivor of emotional incest - from both of my parents. We often don't talk about the unhealthy relationships that same gender parents can have in situations like these. People think it's so cute when moms and daughters are "best friends" but they don't realize that often the daughter was groomed for that and it wasn't her choice.
Yes, i feel like the "my daughter is my best friend" moms is rampant in my generation and it's creepy. Your child cannot be your best friend until they're grown and raised. You're supposed to be your child's parent, the person who guides and discipline them. It's unhealthy to raise them as your peer. Get adult friends, dumping best friend stuff on your kid is disgusting.
@@Ali_D_KattYES THIS!! Not to mention about the internalised misogyny these moms have towards their daughters. They act friendly with them in front of people, but mistreat them horribly behind closed doors. These poor girls are raised in toxic environments, that makes them act in a shallow way in their adulthood. And during these times, the fathers tend to be absent and not being able to protect their daughters from abuse. They encourage it instead...😢
I’m really glad I didn’t have this in my childhood. All of my friends and my sister had better relationships with their mothers/my own mother growing up. My sister and mom are closer now and I’m more on the outside of my family in general. But I can cope with it now better than I used to and realized it’s not my problem. But glad I didn’t have the opposite extreme looking back!
I cannot wrap my head around moms fantasizing about ANY of their CHILDREN'S weddings. It is as creepy to me as the parents who say their babies/toddlers/young kids are "flirting". Y'all the grooming calls are coming from inside the house. 😵💫
The grooming calls have always been projection, for decades. It's interesting how the biggest actual grooming phenomenon is in conservative religious institutions.
I think it’s weird to sexualize kids by saying they’re “flirting” for sure, but parents being excited for future milestones that their kids may hit (like marriage) and thinking about what it will be like, is not weird. At all. It’s only weird if it makes the parents actually upset to think about their child getting married.
So, I'm like a second gen cis female child of a victim of a boy mom. Hearing about the favoritism of male children hit so hard for me. My mother has multiple awful stories about how her mother actively favored her male children. Not to mention the whole inappropriate emotional relationships with children. I am acutely aware of "I'm my mothers only real friend". I know way more inappropriate, intimate details about my mothers marriage than she knows about any of my relationships. I have managed to maintain healthy boundaries on my side at least, i compartmentalize very well as an adult....but i do this by choice, because my mother is in an emotionally abusive marriage and if she didnt talk to me she wouldnt talk to anyone? I do feel stuck, but its sort of the "best i can do" with a shitty situation. Trauma bleeds down thru generations and watching this cycle being promoted on tiktok hit hard. Thanks for the video!
Yup! My mom only ever makes friends with flakes or people worse than her so I’m the literal only reliable person in her life. I could never break it off completely, I know too much about her upbringing and understand why she’s like this lmao, so I just handle what I can and put boundaries up where necessary like my therapist taught me to 😂
@@chelscara Mine is just in this hyper isolation type of relationship that I /hope/ that she's finally getting ready to do something about. So she just doesn't even have flaky friends. She's recently made one healthy friendship that she's actively involved in...but good on both of us to have boundaries and therapy to help keep ourselves healthy! 🙏🙏
I am also the unpaid therapist for my mom. She dumps everything on me, and I know way too much about her traumas growing up. Yet I can’t talk to her about anything, because she’ll always deflect with “just pray and it’ll all be ok” bs. I wish she could just go to therapy and actually speak to someone qualified because she needs it, but she refuses too cause she has that mindset of “mental health is bs, you’re alive be grateful”
It was so sad when this trans girl came out to her boy mom and she stopped being the favorite child and the mom started treating her as badly as she treated her other daughters, so there is definitely a deeper issue going on...
it's equality of the worst kind...most boy moms normally have a "golden boy" anyway though so even if they treat their sons better than their daughters they absolutely have one kid that's their absolute "favorite" and it's normally the youngest or oldest boys
I'm my mom's only daughter- but I'm non-binary but I don't really want to come out to my family cause I'm pretty close with my mom and I'm worried my parents will get upset and stuff, it sucks. To be fair they are very accepting of me generally and they know I'm pansexual and don't really follow gender norms anyway
completely agree! i think about this every time anna’s toxic boy mom behavior gets brought up. i can’t imagine that is isn’t going to cause problems for their trans daughter 😔
@@bookshelfhoneyI'm also scared to come out as non binary to my parents. My parents are pretty accepting of me being aroace, but I feel like my mom always put this strange emphasis on me being her "baby girl", so I'm scared to openly say it. I've hinted at it a bit tho
The girl dad bit at the end reminded me of what it was like being a teenage girl who didn't fit the beauty standards and therefore wasn't being sexualized by the boys around me. There was no one to chase away with a shotgun, and I felt a weird amount of shame and guilt about not being the sort of daughter a dad would want to protect so passionately. I felt like I was unworthy of protection and love and I felt guilty for letting down my parents. I was actually just gay, so a disappointment in a different way. But yeah this being a thing isn't benefiting anyone
My dad was always encouraging me to do sexual things with my boyfriend and telling me I should pose for playboy when I turn 18 and I always wished he would just protect me instead
Yes especially the sexualization part is the worst. I thankfully didn't go that far, but my family treated me like I was an inferior, being due to being the scapegoat youngest sister.
I'm not a boy but my mom begged me not to go to college out of state because she didn't want to raise the other kids (and her husband) on her own, and straight up joked that it felt like she was getting divorced and losing her partner. I love her but man, that pretty fucked up.
They are also in many cases, the ones who show up at their son's wedding in a white gown. I have the belief that anyone but the bride shows up in white. They want to have s*x with the groom.
My parents weren’t emotionally incestuous with myself or my brothers, but I definitely felt the difference in how we were raised based on gender. I’m the oldest, but I’m a girl. My dad wasn’t overprotective of me like a girl dad at all, it was usually the opposite. I was constantly being shamed and punished for not being lady like enough (turns out I’m autistic), while my brothers were praised for everything they did or never received punishment for any wrongdoing. We’re all in our 30’s now and I’ve worked on my feelings over the years, but I don’t forget that stuff.
Same experience here. On top of that, my brother is in his 50s and my parents are still bending over backwards for him. I’m not kidding, I could be dead for weeks, maybe even months, and my parents wouldn’t even inquire. It’s a very one sided relationship and always has been. Those are just the facts. My brother is the most important.
Autistic AFAB childhood for the win!! I was undiagnosed and my brother was diagnosed. I still have to deal with the internalized ableism and the complete isolation I felt both from womanhood and "being one of the boys" seriously stunted my growth. I was emotionally neglected as a kid and it's heartbreaking and heartwarming to know I'm not alone. My brother gets off super easy for things (like physically abusing me) purely because he didn't mean it he's just autistic and has anger issues :P He went a full year unemployed because job searching after school overwhelmed him and was unwilling to let up on his recreational marijuana use to pass a potential drug test (but he could totally quit whenever he wanted.) I try not to diminish his experiences, but it's not my job to be open and kind to him just because he's disabled. I wish it was easier, but I'm glad it's over.
I was adopted, as the younger sister I was expected to be "ladylike" while my brother was allowed to get away with farting, burping, swearing etc (I was diagnosed with autism at 17, but I'm going for a second assessment now I'm 40). I was quite salty at the time over the injustice, but as adults, me and my brother are both now comfortable being either super polite or uncouth as the mood or occasion takes us XD
Never forget! They don't deserve your love for nothing. And I empathise, my dad also rejected and dismissed me for being ASD, even calling teenaged me a 'bitch' or crazy or ugly in front of other people. He thinks I've forgiven and forgotten, but there ain't no way like Aretha said.
It’s not a trend. It’s mental illness-and has been around for millennia. You could try to suggest family therapy. If she won’t do it, as soon as you can, go talk it out for yourself. Back your brother up when he behaves like a normal person, too. You can give him a healthy family relationship and give that to yourself as well. ♥️✌️🙏
@@justkiddin84the trend is women going on social media and embrassons this title of “boy mom” and being open about their emotionally incestuous feelings. The trend is the boy mom thing, not the existence of these types of relationships.
Same, its kind of nice to see someone else that has a similar experience to me. The genders being different is making it a lot harder for other people to take it seriously, from my experience so far (only recently realized what's been going on). I'm glad you realized what was happening, I hope you have/can have the safe and loving relationships you deserve ♥
Being the mom of a boy isn’t toxic inherently of course. But choosing to personally identify as a “boy mom” is red flag behavior. Has always read like the I’m-not-like-other-girls type of girl 🤷♀️
@@MintyFreshCupcakesI think it’s all stupid. I mean for one you’re the one who calls someone else a pick me, and the other is just them calling themselves moms of a boy child which they are, y’all unnecessarily gender everything else so don’t act up when they do it.
I was married to a toxic boy who's mom was a toxic boy mom. It was hell on earth, no joke. This man _hated_ his mom. His dad tragically died when he was 13 of a brain tumor which is very traumatic. His mom didn't get him help and his anger was out of this world. His mom tried to turn her son into her husband...it wasn't good. When I got with him, he seemed fine. I had no idea about narcissism, mirroring, projecting. He acted like me and I fell in love with myself~ all for it to be switched up after we married. He turned into a monster and did t resemble the guy I dated at all. Selfish, irritable, incredibly angry, complaining, bouts of rage that resulted in road rage and him breaking and throwing things around me. When I cried, he'd rage. He told me my tears and emotions were manipulative, which I didn't understand. Me being upset at how he was acting was a reasonable response to what was happening~ but he couldn't separate me from his mother and how toxic she was~ it colored his whole understanding of women. 😢 He also pretended he was a "Christian", and I was, at that time~ no longer, now because of the spiritual abuse I went through at his hands and the hands of the Church when I tried talking to leaders about the abuse I was experiencing. What a mess. He used me as a buffer between himself and his mother while we were married....it was insanity. His mom gave me the heebie-jeebies, and she was sooooo toxic.
bro i had a "boy mom" relationship with my mom. Growing up she always told me how much she wanted a little girl to bake with and do girly stuff with. She had 3 boys before me, two of which were obviously showing signs of mental illness to which she and my father ignored and abused them for. I was taught ever since i was a baby that i was the "good one" and feared my parents response whenever i wasnt. It ended up in me emotionally distancing myself from them and never opening up to them about stuff, always keeping personal feelings hidden. My mom to this day is still hurt by me being so distant and not wanting to spend time with her anymore but thats just what you get when you put all your emotional satisfaction into a child as their parent. Its so innapropriate and damaging. I hope that one day she'll take the hint and realize that i dont owe her shit for just existing and being her child. As always, thank you so, so much Mickey. Your videos to help inform people about healthy relationships and mental health have helped me heal and you are by far one of my favorite youtubers ever
When she said she lets her son punch his sisters, that hits home. Being the scapegoat of my family dynamic, the male Golden Child was allowed to abuse, threaten, and degrade me. Then my parents either did nothing about it or blamed me for it. It's traumatic to me ... and also sabotaged my brother by instilling the attitude that everyone else is to blame for his problems in his life. "Maybe he's having a hard day" isn't an excuse for violence, EVER. Kids need to learn that from a young age.
my older brother has anger management issues. i once had to threaten my parents that i would go to the police if they let my brother hit me again (he was 18 and i was still a minor) to get them to even acknowledge that he had done something wrong at all. there was still no punishment though. meanwhile i was often punished for saying mean things to my brother because “it damages his self-esteem.” but they had no consideration for how spending my entire childhood living in fear of being beaten by someone twice my size might effect me.
I'm so sorry this happened to you and everyone else in the comments, it's really horrible the homes some kids are born into, I hope you're doing better and finding healing ❤ In your opinion what would a family member be able to do to help you? I have a family member very close to me going through the same thing and want to help
So the mom who let her son hit her girls is excited for her girls to get married... after learning that it's OK for men to hit them if they're struggling emotionally. I can only hope they can break the cycle and go no contact with this poor excuse for a mother before they end up in an abusive relationship.
My worst ex, a guy with narcissistic personality disorder (and not in the overused online way, a legit NPD case), had an unhinged Emotional Incest Boy Mom and I'm convinced that was to blame for him being like that. She was so creepy. She had a crying public meltdown when she overheard me casually say "love you, baby" to him at a dinner. We'd be in his room watching TV, only for her to appear scantily dressed and flirtatiously giggle while prancing around the room. It felt like a pick me girl trying to mess with you by flirting with your bf, like "I could take your man if I wanted to"...but it was his mom.
Personality disorders like NPD don’t develop without some severe trauma in early life. An alarming amount of people with NPD experienced CSA and/or incest. His mom sounds disgusting. No amount of harm your ex may have done to you is okay, but it’s awful that he had to go through that. I hope you’re doing better now
I remember being in my ex's kitchen and he kissed me just as his mum walked into the room and she ran out crying. Something else I found out later was that when he'd go and stay with her she made him sleep in the same room as her (he was 24)
A note on the "girl dad" violence/possession masking as protection: having it drilled that dad would (expletive) any boy that touched/hurt me left me WOEFULLY unprepared to protect or advocate for myself at all. I was never taught how to navigate uncomfortable situations with men. Couple that with the ingrained conservative parent value of instant obedience, never ever being able to say no, and men being inherent leaders you listen to... you can imagine how my formative experiences went. And no, when dad found out, he (and mom) did nothing but blame me, as "it takes two to tango". F*ck everything about this culture.
The thing about these dynamics is the children WILL be resentful, and sometimes it ends in the children having very little contact or completely cutting off all contact with their parents. The 'girl dad' dynamic runs so deep in my family that my father and paternal grandfather would tell me "no dating until I'm dead" and make threats about having a gun out in the open if I ever brought a boy home. My father was so obsessed with my purity and innocence that I would get yelled at for things like wearing makeup or trendy clothing, cutting my hair short, and just growing up. The only times I could be myself were when he was not home or if I was at a friend's house and even then I would get yelled at if I didn't scrub off every last trace of mascara from my eyes. I am so grateful that my father abandoned me and my siblings right around the age I started dating, it was a huge weight off my shoulders not having to do the awkward meet and greet with my partner.
I don't immediately grimace at the sentiments that could be construed as "It's bittersweet seeing my child grow up." But when it comes to the videos of moms issuing challenges to their son's fictional future girlfriend, where sometimes their son is still a toddler and the assumption of heterosexuality is its own problem on top of the mom's sexism. Or when the moms explicitly compare their son and daughter, claiming the love for their son is just different or deeper. Those moms should not be parents, imo.
And those moms usually turn out to be the worst when it might turn out, oh, your son is your actually your daughter!! So many terfs are exactly this type of mom to their kids.
@@fran791 it isn't that a parent wouldn't see their kid's gender. That would be erasing an important part of a person's identity and experiences. But a good parent does aim to teach their children how to navigate the world with those differences, and accepts who that child is, without expectation of who they're "supposed" to be
The vast majority of society is heterosexual, there's nothing wrong with assuming your child is heterosexual until you get proof otherwise. It's literal odds.
@@AngelinaParkerI was thinking about that case during this 😂 Especially with some of the comments talking about how these mothers basically cripple their sons by making them unloveable to anybody other than their mothers and I was like “Bingo, that’s Eddie Gein!” 😅
@@AngelinaParker I don't like to defend serial killers or show sympathy, but it’s wild how Ed could have been a less awful person if it weren’t for his mom…
as a victim of emotional incest, you never fully get over it. the feelings of inferiority and loneliness is very real. i’m currently trying to untangle myself from my mother and it’s so unbelievably difficult. i don’t know how to feel half the time and when i do, i can’t figure it out.
My last ex brought his mom to my house when we broke up to pick his things up. And when I asked “why did you bring your mother?” he said “she is my best friend, we talk about everything!” that was all I needed to know. I was in a “secret competition” with his mother
So I'm raising three young boys, and whenever I heard "boy mom" I always assumed it was about the little quirks that come along with that. Like humor revolving around farts and having to deal with sending your kid into a bathroom you can't enter, you know? I had no idea this was an aspect of it and yikes. I'm more grateful every day that I don't have a tiktok lol.
Nope, boy no also love having their little boys (that they haven’t taught better) to go into the women’s bathroom wayy into preteenhood, that often times like to go around the bathroom trying to look into the stalls or succeeding to look into the stalls and/or changing rooms of locker room types. There’s a whole lot of other things you’d allow if you were a “boy mom” as well.While you are a mom of boys, you don’t sound like you’re a “boy mom,”which is a good thing.
I mean you can it’s not bad thing to be a woman in the men’s bathroom. It’s just a certain age it’s creepy to follow your kids to one. Especially if they’re starting to mature and separate. A lot of the boy mom stuff relates to patriarchy and gender roles so I feel like if any parent worries about mirroring this behavior. Start being critical on how we raise boys and girls and intersex children.
Helicopter parenting is never good no matter the gender.Kids need to make mistakes and choices on their own so they can grow to an adult that can do the same .
I think society also plays a part in pushing moms towards this and rewarding it. I'm a mom to a toddler, and most of my identity right now revolves around being a parent. And yet, whenever I carve out boundaries for myself, I feel guilt and shame (from messages through media and communities) that I'm not 100% focused on my child. Also, I'm sure the assumption by the parents that all these children are cis-het will just make it harder for the children to explore their identities as they grow up.
'' Also, I'm sure the assumption by the parents that all these children are cis-het will just make it harder for the children to explore their identities as they grow up. '' I think that treating your kids like their cis het but at the same time supporting the lgbt comunity and telling them '' Remember I'll love you no matter what gender or sexuality you are '' would make it easier for them to explore their identities as they grow up.
just wanted to say, it's 100% valid and good even for you to take time and space for yourself. as long as your kid is being taken care of, you don't need to feel guilt or shame for taking care of yourself. ultimately, it will allow you to be a better parent in the time you are spending with your kid(s) and that's better for everyone. ❤ edit to add that I totally agree with the cishet thing because I cannot imagine how these types of parents would react to their child being lgbtq. for the kids' sake I hope they're able to get support outside of the family.
I say this as an adult daughter, but please don’t ever be apologetic or embarrassed when enjoying your own hobbies and personal interests and sharing that info with your kids. It shows your kids healthy exploration, multi-faceted, and depth to you as a human being and as a mother. Being that selfless overly devoted mother, even if done with good intentions, your kids might take for granted, pick up similar but unhealthy habits, or expect their future relationships to be the same. It’s not easy though, I know. Mothers get so much flack for doing anything that is “selfish” and not 100% centered around their kids for any moment in time. Then they get shamed when it ultimately pushes them to revolve their identity around their kids. Damned if you; damned if you don’t. Everyone’s a critic no matter what answer you give. So I have a lot of sympathy and respect towards mothers, despite not ever planning to be one, with how terribly the systems sets you up and treats you.
I agree! I'm doing the whole single mom thing, and it was even harder to have to ask someone to babysit (as opposed to their dad watching them) just so I could relax for a little while.
Evangelical culture trying to aggressively force people (through indoctrination and political power) to be cis get conservative parents and find their identity in being parents.
This kind of attitude is very normalized where I live (Italy), so much so it's very common to joke about your mother-in-law hating you or your partner being a mammone (which basically means a man who's attached to his mom almost to a pathological degree). I've never been in this situation myself but I've lost count of how many of my friends have these sorts of issues in their relationships: the boyfriend's mom being overbearing, jealous of his son's girlfriend and constantly fighting for his attention, trying to sabotage the relationship in any way possible and even asserting her ownership over her adult son's body... It's truly insane and it makes me think that in a way it's a product of patriarchal and misogynistic cultural attitudes.
Per fortuna è una cosa che negli anni sta svanendo. Mio padre era un boymom e ha forti tratti narcisistici, mia madre ha dovuto lasciarlo perchè era psicologicamente e fisicamente abusivo nei confronti di me e mia sorella. Tanti uomini che crescono viziati spesso sviluppano personalità patologiche e un senso di entitlement immenso
Seems to be a similar thing in Latino culture too. I remember suggesting to my ex boyfriend that he start catching the bus to his swim training or that it would be nice if he came to visit me for a change, I lived in Auckland and he lived in Dunedin we were basically in a long distance relationship. His response was "but my mum would be so hurt and upset." How is a morning or weekend without your grown son that upsetting?
Even though the first mom says at the end, "This is a problem, I/we should stop doing this," she says it with such a smirk of perverse glee... There's a kind of pride in doing something that you know is wrong, that you know you should change, but you have no intention of changing.
As a teacher, seeing this behavior is so horrifying. As a person who was a victim of incest of various forms from various people, thank you for making this video!!
I have three sons. My oldest is 22, and my twins will be 15 next month. This behavior is harmful toward their long term development. I married a mama’s boy, and let me tell you, it was beyond horrible. She tried everything she could to separate us, hang onto him, and then create distance between me and my own sons. It was horrific. Please, moms, take pride in your sons, but keep the boundaries healthy. It’s possible. And it’s necessary.
Currently going through similar with my future MIL and it it difficult. It hurts her son when she says or does rude things to the woman he loves. I’ll never understand why people do this
@Chelseabee55 You're not doing yourself or your fiance any favors by being with him while he's still in a toxic relationship with his mother. He needs to get that worked out before bringing a new person into their dynamic.
@@Indyawillis85 respectfully, you don't know the situation so you can't comment on it. Yes he has been standing up to her and yes he and I are in a healthy relationship and no we don't need to break up, good christ what a judgement
@@dalishrogue3621 , we did go no contact. We waited too long; lesson learned. After 12 years of hell, my late husband laid a boundary with his mother. They cut us off immediately. They then tried to still have access to our children, unsupervised of course. We said we were willing to rebuild all together and to try it with respect this time. They wouldn’t have it, so that was that. We moved to another state and started over. Those were the best years of our marriage. My husband passed three years ago. It’s now just me and my boys. Life is very different now, but very peaceful and calm. We all have an equal voice and we have so much respect for each other. I didn’t know life could be like this.
It def happens with mom-daughter relationships. I felt absolutely 100% responsible for my mom's wellbeing. She was definitely way too attached/protective. She has literally said things like "you're my everything" and "if you ever moved far away it would rip my soul out!" I'm glad I've learned about how harmful these dynamics are. It's answered a lot for me. Now I'm trying to work through it all.
Literally the same thing with me. She’d say I’m her prized possession and her property and ask to live with me once I moved out of my dad’s house. Just weird.
She was the one who taught me about being short-waisted with violin hips, and that's why low-rise jeans never fit the way I wanted them to. Learning that helped me stop blaming myself for feeling "fat." It's disappointing to see her go in this direction 😓
As a daughter... I've always felt responsible for my mom's happiness. I hated seeing her sad, and boy dont let her be mad either... "Happy Wife Happy Life" is the saying they tell husbands...but that horrible phrase impacts the children too. Im 29 trying to set boundaries with her for the first time. Didn't realize i could lol.
When I clicked on this video I didn't expect to be so seen. My mother was very enmeshed with my brother and I. So much so that he is still single and he is 54. He still lives with her too. I went no contact and after 7 years I am actually healing. I have worked hard as a mother of 2 to give both my kids all the room they need to be themselves and I try my best to identify when I might be leaning towards talking to them as if they are a confidante. I want my kids to be independent and adults with their own separate lives. I appreciate you talking about this in case any parents aren't aware of what they are doing to their kids. I am sure my mom was never aware but I do have a lot of her trauma I have carried most of my life and I am just learning to put that down because it is not my burden. Anyway, after all that I want to say thank you for making this!
"trauma soup" is such an accurate way to describe living through this kind of parenting. it's fucking hard but i'm glad to see this phenomenon discussed this way... i hate that this is seen as desirable behavior in a parent, boymoms, girldads, girlmoms, boydads, anyone can perpetuate this to a child of any gender. still struggling 10 years out after 20 or so years of emotional abuse in my family of origin, tackling a lot of this in therapy already, but we've still got work to do.
Are you also going to talk about father being obsessed about their daughters virginity particularly in fundie circles. Think thats on a whole other level of boy moms.
@@seraphik Oh yes. Some even go so far as to have "purity balls" and take engagement style photos and everything (with purity rings of course) in white dresses, but it's a father and daughter.
As a son of one of these mothers. Thank you Thank you for spreading awareness. I can't describe the deep, shameful wounds I developed from my life because of this favoritism and neediness ❤ I struggle w so much addiction, identity confusion, cptsd, etc. And from the outside my mom just loved me very much. But there's something more sinister inside that nobody knows unless you've experienced the damage of emotional incest in childhood. (Also u mentioned attachments and yep I have disorganized attachment and it's horrible I feel unstable all the time in relationships)
This might (partly, as mum tried to treat me and my brother equally, but he was kind of the favourite) explain why I used to feel so emotionally unstable in (mostly VERY short-lived) romantic relationships, or even just when I was crushing on someone (I'd go through a cycle of emotions from euphoric to barely functioning depression, and back up to euphoria again, as well as verging on panic attacks and other fun stuff in between. It was exhausting, confusing and scary, and I only started to figure out what might be going on through therapy, but I still feel like there's a bit more to pin down here). I've always struggled with making/keeping friends; it's getting better, but still got a lot to learn, which doesn't feel good at 40 years of age. I was given up for adoption as a toddler which is another big part of the issue, but my adoptive parents didn't exactly help that much.
I just read "I'm Glad My Mom Died" and hearing the description of emotional incest, all I could think was that if you take out the gender specific parts, this is exactly what Jennette McCurdy's mom was like.
21:30 I appreciate what you talk about right here because it describes my situation to a T. I'm a woman in my 30s and I have a strained relationship with my mom now because "I was her whole world" growing up. As background she wanted to have a large family but my parents had a very difficult time conceiving so even though they tried for a long time I ended up being their only child. (Also I'd love to hear your insights on growing up as an only child. It can be kind of a unique experience). As I look back I can tell she put her entire identity in being a mom to a child and now that I'm grown I can see the damage it's done to her relationship with other people, with me and with her own self. I can see her struggling now because she liked the idea of being a mom to a child but not really a mom to an adult. She tries but I can tell that she doesn't like that I grew up and became independent and that gives me all sorts of complicated and weird feelings.
Very similar to what I went through, except I have a younger brother. My mom is definitely a boy mom to him, but she expected me to be her confidant and savior. It's taken decades to undo the damage. It's wild bc she has expectations that we will marry (I am married but haven't told my family bc they are very abusive) but then turns around and has standards so high no human can ever fulfill them, making it impossible for either of us to enter into a relationship with anyone that will make HER happy
I'm having a boy in June. And I find it so weird and wrong to have those delusional views about your OWN son. So gross. As a parent, it's your job to help your child be as independent as possible as they grow, NOT raise them to be your lover.
All parents view their children as extensions of themselves. When you realize that altruism isn't real, things become clearer. Not necessarily easier, but clearer.
@@cultreader9751""altruism isn't real"" I will take that as everyone has emotional needs. Some of these are just like child needs, that are really inadequate to still have in adulthood, but this just can be a factor of why this dynamic can happen Anyways, an adult needs to search strong support and connection in OTHER ADULT! Not on a child, not on their son or daughter! That's why a strong marriage (and healthy relationships by extension) are really important As a note, excuse my wording, I'm not a native speaker,😊
@@luisapaza317 i meant it more literally (there's no such thing as an action done purely out of the kindness in one's heart), but I agree with your overall sentiment.
I did my master degree thesis on this subject, but precisely on the mother-daughter relationship. I also used mimesis and mimetic theory to explain some of it, as my main subject was literature explains of emotional (or symbolic) incest. I wish we talked about this subject MORE, alongside parentalization.
My ex MIL did a lot of emotional incest with my ex husband. She was so jealous of all of his girlfriends and of me. The explanation why she did this was because her husband did not give her the connection she wanted/needed. I don’t buy it. I also did not my relationship needs met in my marriage. I have a son and would not do this to him. I made a commitment to my children that I would do my best to not fuck up my kids!
As someone who was in his same situation but as a girl I buy that explanation 100%. I had to stop talking to my mother entirely because she never stopped trying to get her emotional needs met through me rather than her actual spouse or the many other appropriate avenues available to her. Some people just love their status quo and having their needs met in a way that's readily accessible to them more than they love their child and their child's healthy development. I'm glad you actually love your kid.
Yeah I think her explanation is true though. My mom did the same thing to me and my brother, and we had an emotionally absent, verbally/mentally abusive father. Instead of leaving him, she just kind of used us to fill that emotional role. No like actual incest or anything, gross, but emotional, for sure. In different ways too, I’m the gay son, so it manifested as me being her therapist, words of affirmations, etc. my brother, the older & heterosexual one, played football, became like the “protector” of my mom, whenever my dad would have an episode. It’s extremely weird looking back. Me and him even had a talk the other night, after his recent girlfriend broke up with him. How he’s getting help now professionally, and he said his therapist said “it sounds like you don’t know who you really are”. And I have heard the same sentiment from my own therapist. Raising your sons like this, is alllll bad. Kids aren’t supposed to be that ingrained into your problems and your life like that. Neither of us had the time to cultivate a stronger sense of self, because it was always wrapped up in that BS.
Just because you didn't react that way, that doesn't mean other people won't. For example, we know statistically speaking that if you are abused as a child, you're more likely to abuse others growing up. But obviously that's not true for all abused children. I do think the boy mom phenomenon is more complicated than just the mom's emotional needs not being met. But I think for many cases, that is a part of it. The problem is that these moms do not have the emotional maturity to properly handle this situation, and instead take it out on their children.
I would be really interested to hear you talk about emotional incest between moms and their daighters. In my personal experience, Ive found that theres an added layer of jealousy towards to object of emotional incest as well, that is often missing in the mom/son relationship. (Obviously not always, just speaking from personal experiences).
My ex fiances mother was like this with him. It made me feel really sad because she was so insecure and intrusive and clearly very unhappy in her own self. Aside from the impact on our relationship, the heart breaking thing was that my ex fiance died young in a sudden accident. I don't think his mother ever recovered and he passed away before ever becoming independent and maturing as a man, having a partner or a child, separate from her.
Ya, there can be toxic boy mom’s who hate their daughters. And yes, she let him get away with physical abuse to me as well as others. At 34, she even threaten to have my brother physically violently harm me as someone who has C-ptsd. She also pretty much saved his marriage while I was struggling horribly.. even 3 professionals told her to make a relationship with me.. but again she neglected me. Meanwhile my whole life, I was her cushion for issues.. a parentified child. I’m glad you brought this up.
This gives me huge ick as a child carer as well. I work with infants and toddlers, and while we dont encourage it we do have little ones come up and try to hug and kiss us. Saying the whole "be their first kiss" thing, just makes any kind of contact with a kid feel gross to me.
Sheesh. I had no idea when I clicked on this video it would put so much of my own life into perspective. Not so much the "emotional incest" type of manipulation but I grew up with my mom relentlessly lamenting that my sister and I were her ENTIRE world. I am now a married adult who feels an immense weight of responsibility for my mother's happiness at all times. The thought of disappointing her in any way makes me *actually* want to vomit. That "ripped in half" feeling you describe? Oh my dear lord...the accuracy.
Ooo I can relate so much. It's hard to undo all the guilt programming that has no basis in reality. Being your own person isn't a betrayal but it's hard to believe when you geow up like that. ❤
I feel you - I moved out and a-mum has started dropping the occasional "you're all I've got" when I visit... except she also says that about the dog and her daughter in law/son, too XD she actually has lots of people around her who care and would/do help when it's needed, sometimes without even being specifically asked, but she definitely has strong favourites... favourites who are also trying to lead their own lives and want no part in being held hostage emotionally. She's got depression and I want to help her, but at the same time the urge to run away screaming like my hair is on fire, as an act of self defence, is much stronger.
Do see a good therapist who will help you learn to set appropriate boundaries. You are not responsible for another adult's happiness even if they gave birth to you. It will be scary at first but ultimately less stressful as you develop your healthy sense of self. Good luck!
As someone who was raised in a household where mom's emotional security was the ultimate priority, it has been SO deeply healing to empower my own son by saying things like, "Yes, I'm upset. And that's ok. It is NOT your fault and you don't have to fix it. I'm an adult, and I'll take care of my feelings in a moment. Do YOU need any snuggles or to talk about anything first?" It was work to learn how to do that, but it is incredibly freeing and feels SO GOOD to give my child the emotional autonomy my parents didn't know how to give me.
I don't comment often on videos, but this really opened my eyes on how my mom treats me, I am a legal adult but I still live with her because of money issues, she had me really young and would tell me when I was younger that I saved her life just by being born and that I'm am her world, I was also pretty calm and she held me then and now in such a high regard and it really put a lot of pressure on me, I didn't expect to come to this much of a realization on a boy mom video but what you said really just hit me ❤
These video clips creep me out so much. I grew up with parentification and that was bad enough. As a parent it’s SO important to maintain a sense of self, to take care of yourself, have your own identity outside of parenthood.
Mickey, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE if you could one day make a video about the roles of children in birth order (like the oldest child, middle child, a baby of the family) and how parents put them in certain identities or roles, how to avoid, and the like! I also really enjoyed learning about responsive versus spontaneous desire and would love to hear more from you on that!
I feel like my mother did this to me as a child, she was always jealous of my partners and friends. So weird and creepy. I would never “joke” about emotional incest. Thank you for covering this topic
Thank you for discussing this. I am the daughter of a boy mom and unfortunately I’ve experienced the whole thing where the mom excuses my brother for physically and emotionally abusing me because he is the favorite. Hearing you talk about this is validating and I’m so glad to see more people speak about it.
I can vouch for how damaging this dynamic is. Especially because the parent's abuse can be almost ENTIRELY covert. It has made me feel so much overwhelming guilt for setting boundaries with my mom. I still question if I'm overreacting to her behavior. It would be easier in a way if there was more explicit abuse. It was incredibly validating to hear how it could make the child not know their own wants and needs. My agency and sense of self were so repressed, I learned that the only way I could receive true love from another person was to submit to their will completely and devote myself to their happiness. I have done a lot of healing work and am, at 26, finally getting to know myself on a deep level. I struggle daily with these beliefs and maladaptive coping methods. The best thing I have done in my life was setting boundaries with her. Thank you so much for making this video and going into this topic ❤❤❤❤❤
You talking about the breaking down of boundaries in these situations is really important. I still struggle with boundaries, both my own and others, and I'm almost forty. Being autistic also _really_ doesn't help, and I wasn't diagnosed until about three years ago. Boundaries are difficult when almost your entire family have stomped on yours for years, but then get mad when you violate theirs and don't bother to teach you anything the right way, they just scream at you. I'm glad you're on UA-cam helping people like me.
Fellow boy mom here. I definitely resonate with the not feeling ready for milestones. My kid is only a year old so things like him starting to walk make me realize the dynamic is changing and I'm sad to lose the things i really enjoy about this phase of life but i would NEVER hold him back to soothe my desire to slow down time. I try to focus on the joy i feel at participating in these milestones with him and try to take joy every day in the ways he is learning and growing.
My aunt is like this. My cousin is 32 now. Still thoroughly tied up in her apron strings. Hasn't worked a day in his life and lives off of his parents' money. Was totally the golden child. My aunt doesn't like that he has a girlfriend and thinks she's holding him back. From what? Being more of a lazy lump than he already is? His older sister isn't *much* better, but at least she actually finished her bachelor's...
@@xLiLlyx98small place, not many people their age, and he is moderately good looking. also, she grew up right across the street from him. no accounting for taste, i guess...
@@pris1378 well, in such cases I always assume a lot of dysfunction in the partners family as well, that's the only explanation for why they ultimately would consider this. I mean yes, all the reasons you listed, but a healthy individual would rather be single I think 😆
I finally could unpack what's wrong with me after all of these years thanks to this video. I spent my whole entire childhood with my late mom and grandma and guess what? Instead of my mom, my grandma gave same treatment like mentioned in this video to my mom and me. We don't have autonomy for ourselves, every time we start a new relationship my grandma always interfering in some way or another. After both of them passed away, my family can't stop pointed out to my face how sheltered I am as result of this treatment. Once again thank you for this video and your last message, I feel like I could pinpoint specific problem to be working with my therapist
There was this Instagramer who got pregnant a 2nd time and she said it better be a boy and it wasn't, she was upset. Her husband made a happy birthday post for the second girl and he said I wanted a boy but happy birthday Layla. Like what ????
I’m very aware of parentification and making your kid your therapist because my parents did that to me. So when I had my kid I made sure I had doctors and therapists as I had bipolar and only told my kid age appropriate stuff and got help when I needed it. One of my MH doctors said I should “trust your kid and lean on them more” and I’m like wtf no. They were 10 at the time. Highly inappropriate to expect a 10 year old to counsel me through a MH crisis. My responsibility surely was to do what I did go get adult help from a professional. They’re 18 now so I share more stuff but they’re still not my therapist. I thought that they should only know things and explanations so they never thought my MH was about them. So if I was in a crisis they knew I still loved them so much and my brain is just not working properly but I would do everything to make it better and they can still expect support from me no matter if I was in a crisis or not. Weird that they recommended that every journal I’ve read says it’s terrible. It certainly felt terrible when it was done to me. I had to rely on doctors for myself because it was one way. That’s sad but it’s not my kids fault and I wasn’t gonna do the same shit to them. They’re trans and have anxiety etc I’ve been there with them through all of it no matter the weather in my brain.
My exes mom destroyed our relationship with this. She passed away a couple years later and he is now completely alone. She alienated him from everyone including his siblings. Nasty woman.
@@tastegeorgia674these types of mother’s never think about the damage they are doing. It’s only about what they want and the son is just collateral damage
Something really bothering me about this conversation is that, like you said, it kinda ignores how bad girl dads, but also erases the fact this dynamic can happen between same gender parent and children. More accurately, in my case, same asab because i grew up to be a guy lmao. In my case Mother/raised-to-be-daughter But my mom and I had a version of this dynamic that im not sure ive seen talked about, despite the fact i know many other people who share this trauma. From a young age, i was set up to fill the role of my dad when he couldnt be around. It began with adultification and parentification (expecting me to be her emotional punching bag and to raise my younger siblings), as well as emotional and physical abuse. but after he died...thats when the emotional incest started. I quickly slotted into the role of "replacement dad" but was expected to perform as a girl. In fact when i started dressing more masc presenting, my mom hated it. She was obsssessed with my "beauty". I wont go into details, but long story short she was NOT happy when i came out (either time, first as a lesbian at 15 and then as trans at 19) and when i finally got help from friends to move out she said to my face that i was a traitor. That having me felt like having a partner again, how could i abandon her and our family. And it was like...if i didnt leave i would have died. She refused to let me transition or have any autonomy. I had to leave. Eventually when my younger sister got into her teens, she did the same thing to her. Not exactly the same, cause my sis was the youngest and uh..shows it. But more like..expected her to be her best and only friend (which she also did to me). Suffice to say, ive been helping my sister get out of there and helped her realize the abuse she experienced was something we shared, and wasnt inherent to her as a person. But the gender dynamics between kids who are raised to be the same gender as their parent really is quite different from cis boymoms and girldads, and ignoring that will only lead to more people dismissing their trauma (past or current) and not seek help, and i think thats devestating. My friends helped me realize what was happening, but also seeing the domestic cycle of abuse chart AND finding the entry about emotional incest on the RAINE website. Idk if i would have ever broken away to live a much happier life if i hadnt had people pull me out and support me, and had been a big computer nerd in the 2000s as a kid and knew how to navigate websites. But..yeah. if anyone experienced somwthing similar to me, you are not alone and this doesnt just happen to different gender parent and child relationships. It happened to us too. Edit: i wanted to add, bc some comme ts reminded me, that ny mom prioritized me and my sister and neglected my brothers. She loudly talked about how she hated men and stuff, and never like..taught my brothers anything. They now dont know how to be self-sufficient, hate women, and feel conpletely alone. She just doesnt care whay happens to her boys, and she taught her "girls" to never trust love because there was always another dangerous side to it (similar to her love). I will say she did denegrate my and my sister's abilities in order to make us feel incapable of living without her, telling us that NO ONE will EVER love us as much as she does. Well, if this is her love...i didnt want it.
This happened to me!! It made me really question my relationship with my femininity and basically although I'm not trans like you, I came to terms and realized "being a woman is great when you don't have a bunch of women telling you you're bad at it!" Best wishes! My mom gave me a very weird view of my body I've been working through.
A lot of this applies to me and I absolutely feel the frustration of "not being allowed" to advocate for myself and learning that my needs would not be met and when I needed help or support I would not get it. Consequently as an adult there are still so many things I don't know how to do, or even how to ask for help with, and inability to set healthy boundaries without feeling like I will immediately be hated for it. Advocating for myself, such as at the doctors in particular, brings me to tears so quickly. I often end up feeling bullied by or not listened to by health professionals.
Man, your statements on parents using their kids to heal themselves really hit home to me. I’m AFAB non-binary and my mother used to lean heavily on me and my brother to deal with her emotional issues and baggage. We were heavily parentified and luckily, I got out. My brother didn’t and now he’s 36 and living at home basically as a second husband to our mom. I swore when I became a mom that I’d never make my emotions and my issues my kids problem. I’ve done a lot of work trying to heal it. I feel very seen by your video and I know you didn’t think a lot of this needed to be said but as someone who was parentified and still struggles with putting others ahead of myself as a result, thank you for saying it.
I feel like some of this very weird stuff comes out of a toxic interpretation of some fairly real phenomena. There is a deep trust and dependency between an infant (and I'm talking "4th trimester" very young baby) and their primary caregiver. Throw some oxytocin in there if you've given birth to said infant, add some more if you are trying to breastfeed; and it's pretty intense. It can feel like they are everything to one another - and the level of caregiving required in those early weeks does take over one's life if there are reasonable maternity leave options. But, it comes out of the baby literally relying on that caregiver for their survival. I remember being able to calm my infant daughter with my voice when she was being held by someone else (this worked very briefly - like most other parenting techniques :P). There's a power there and if a parent isn't supported emotionally in other ways by other people in their lives, I could see it being a hard to manage that power properly. No one loves you like that baby did then. No one needs you like that baby did then. The point is to move past that though. And that trust and devotion isn't something the baby has knowledgeably chosen, it's a survival requirement, and it sure as hell isn't romantic love and should not be mistaken for it.
@@dickottel Just a guess but it could be connected to the way we are messed up about relationships between men and women in general. The whole "can they just be friends" stuff or the way people declare boy and girl toddlers to be "boyfriend and girlfriend" when they play together. Mickey points out that there is a similar toxic trend in father/daughter relationships so it could be connected to that weird dynamic we've established that seems to make all relationships between people of apparent opposite sex somehow romantic or sexual. I mean, it's a mess.
I’m glad you’re addressing this because I recognised the EI aspect of the trend, both because I’m a psychology student and also because I was a victim of it as a child. It’s extremely unhealthy and has long lasting negative impacts for us as adults. I’ve been through repeated abusive relationships and it’s taken years to undo the patterns I’ve learned from the toxic dynamic I grew up in.
my mom was like this. but with me as the oldest child, she said it was my purpose in life to serve her, be there for her, be her "everything" and not have a life outside of her. she forced me to mother my siblings and work from the time i was 12 to pay her bills. she told me over and over that i'd just "ruin my life" if i left her i left as soon as i could and she was so angry at me, she would only speak to me in anger for several years. i was angry too. she stole my childhood. eventually things leveled out and i now have a healthy relationship with my mom. i try very hard not to put things on my children like that. i feel so guilty that my older boys had to jump in and help take care of me and their siblings for a short time when i was recovering from something and their father would not help. even though that was years ago that guilt remains. (those boys are now 18 and 17 for reference) motherhood became my entire identity when the kids were young, and the kids became my "world" but i never tried to put myself as their whole world as i knew that could not and would not be healthy.
i definitely wasn’t a boymom victim because i was raised female, but everything you said about the issues that stem from the whole thing about “you having your own needs is abandoning me” really ring true. the feeling like your needs will never get met in a relationship, the resentment that builds from that, the lying that comes from the resentment… that was part of what led to the downfall of my only relationship so far. it’s been a persistent theme in my relationships in general, but was the most extreme with my ex due to the intensity and closeness. huh.
I especially feel bad for Anna’s trans daughter because that little girl could see how mom treats the youngest son and think to herself, would my mom love me more if I lived out my life as my assigned gender at birth? 😢
When a dad wants to beat up a daughter's BF for no actual reason (such as a rule breaking or being clearly abusive to the daughter), it seems like jealousy, like beating up the rival guy to the woman you like. Which is kinda incestuous.
As someone else mentioned, society itself is far from helpful when it comes to establishing a healthy relationship between son and mother. The pressure to be laser-focused on the child/ren, the "no woman can ever be your first love like mom was" messaging, etc. - it poisons the mind and spirit. You have to push back, hard, if you want to have a healthy relationship with your kids in a world that seems to only want to reward people's worst behaviors.
Thank you for touching on this subject!! Emotional incest being an erosion of appropriate parent/child boundaries is an absolutely perfect way to word it. My parents barely acknowledge my past and I know if I ever brought up the words “emotional incest” they’d reject the idea it ever happened, even though both of them were superrr guilty of it for way too long. I’m glad to be an adult and not a parent anymore to my siblings and parents lmao adulthood has been challenging but super freeing! I will be using your description of it if I ever need to bring it up to them again in the future 😅🫣
This happened with me and my mother (I’m her only child, a daughter). I’ve been married more than 10 years and she is still bitter about the fact that I “abandoned” her (seriously, she still cries says things like, “you just left me!” sometimes). I had been expected to take care of her emotionally and sometimes physically from a very young girl age. She tried to break up my husband and I when we started dating seriously… I have 3 boys and I am determined to make sure I don’t repeat the cycle with any of them.
I love how you say “and” not “but.” It’s something I do with my daily conversations, especially with my son. “I love you and I need 10 minutes of quiet time alone.” The word “but” implies I don’t mean anything I said before that word.
Your little passage about the "golden child" thing really hit home. I feel exactly like this, and it's led me to get some pretty bad self-esteem at one point. I'm working on it, slowly, but I really hope it isn't affecting my younger sibling negatively. I've noticed how she gets into arguments with my parents and always mentions how I'm the top child, and it makes me pretty uncomfortable to see her devalidate herself. Hopefully things can get better, and I won't get into any detail as this is pretty personal, but nonetheless, love the vid, keep doing those ❤
My son is 19, and his dad died when he was 7, and I've never had family helping raise him. It is hard to do! Glad I've been a child & adolescent therapist for 20+ years because it helped me stay on-track when i was exhausted. I still try to stick to my core values of helping him be him. Now i can take my (valid) anxieties and give him information about why im worried (after asking!), and then i tell him "now you decide what to do." It is a joy when he legit comes to me with questions as he transitions out of school-age.
Nice video :) My daughter is now asking me a lot about marriage. She has a developmental disability and I’m trying to figure out how to help her feel safe but also prepare her for encountering predators/people who don’t have her best interest in mind. Most of my efforts until now have been around the importance of people listening to her and her feelings and constantly reinforceing that she should not be forced to do anything.
There are a growing number of disability and self-advocate groups who are creating resources on love, sex and safety in Easy Read/plain language formats for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. You may need to look for groups outside of the United States for these, but they're very helpful.
That first mom forgiving her son for HITTING his sisters is disgusting. Not only is she teaching her son that it's okay to hit people because you "had a bad day" she's also teaching her daughters that abuse is forgivable because he just "had a bad day". 🤮
Exactly
The delivery sounds too fake to be real. Not that people like her dont exist but given when it was posted and how much she began to milk it when it went viral, its either satire or ragebait.
And she was laughing
My uncle let my cousins do the opposite. His two daughters were allowed to hit and punch their brother but if he stood up for himself or hit back he would getting punished for "hitting women." Incredibly gross on both sides. Teaching kids not to hit regardless of gender is basic ass parenting. Just because a kid is having a bad time doesn't mean they get to lash out and beat other people. They need to learn appropriate emotional regulation for their age and it changes as they grow, but hitting people is not ok.
@@BaA-zz4pq Yes and I’m from a culture where this is extremely common and romanticized.
That’s also how I know she is faking it. Her acting is too forced. She can still be misogynist but I’ve been in the internet long enough to see manufactured ragebait.
As a survivor of incest, I know how absolutely devastating it is to victims. Emotional incest is no less dangerous and should be taken just as seriously. Mothers who develop these inappropriate relationships with their sons are 100% preying on them and using them.
I'm so sorry that was done to you 🥺 I wish you all the best moving forward 🌻
It can be a type of grooming, teaching their kids to be dependent on them and unable to function without them and there's still that same power dynamic. Just because there may not be an inappropriate sexual relationship doesn't mean the relationship is fine... And often these mom's do sexualise their sons, just like some dads sexualising their daughters and the "daddy's girl" trope. It's super gross.
I feel like my ex husbands mom was like this she acted like he was her husband . She would call to tell him she’s sick when I was in the hospital and he would leave me to go to her 4 hours away .. and then not come home. SHE HAS A HUSBAND. Her husband should have been with her not mine . I would understand if she was in the same city and he came back to me but yea
I’m sorry this happened to you
Emotional is not the same as physical. Sorry.
@@aujuliawod No one said it was
“I, solely, must protect my daughter from all the dangers of the world” my brother in Christ, you are the dangers of the world
Lmfaooooo! 😅 Ouch! (But honest).
EXACTLY
Christ probably doesn’t want to be associated with this man
@@the_demon149 true
Exactly my thoughts...
As someone who was in a long-term relationship with the adult son of a boy-mum, I can honestly say, it's HELL. I felt like she was competing with me for all 4 years. So thank you so much for talking about how damaging this all is!
I believe these women do this on purpose to their sons, so their sons never really find love. Sad.
Hi Rachel, love your channel. Also, sorry you had to go through that.
Rachel, I love your channel! Sorry you went through this.
You lasted long... I wouldn't bother even a month... Not worth it - in the end even if he decides to cut of the monster its takes years of therapy to fix that damage... Hell to the no
Was engaged to an abusive mama's-boy and his boy-mom drove to my house to scream in my face, cuss me out, and call me names bc i was taking care of my sick dog for a night instead of spending the night with him while he was anxious. He was staying with his mom bc he was too anxious to be alone so he was taken care of?
When my son married last August I sobbed. With happiness and joy. I brought him up alone. He has married a wonderful woman. I expect now to take second place, his first priority is his wife. But we have a great relationship. They both came to see me immediately upon my cancer diagnosis. I’ve never tried to hold onto him. We all video call every Sunday and he has always come home summer and Christmas.. that continues and it is wonderful. He isn’t my possesion.
Children come through us but not from us. Children are not belongings. They are their own people.
You sound like you did well raising him, and loving him well and appropriately, thus continuing to do so. Best of luck with your treatment and recovery with your diagnosis!
hopefully you understand that this video is definitely not about you. You sound like a great mom. I wish you good health
hope you recover well!!! so glad your life’s been full of joy and hope it’s filled with much more
I don’t know you at all, but I’m unbelievably proud of you. This is what being a mother of a boy, but NOT a “boy mom” means. You sound like you’ve done well. I wish you good luck with your diagnosis❤️
Warning for parents: Once the young adult child figures out it's their parents that caused their inability to have healthy adult relationships - the child will BLAME AND RESENT THE PARENTS. My sister and I barley talk to our mom and never speak to our dad. I hope how they treated us as kids was worth it??????
Your last sentence really got me. It's exactly what I wish I could say to my mom.
Half the time (in my experience) even though the grown children are resentful towards their parents for making them useless/unloveable those kids still wind up going back to their parents for companionship/comfort, so in the end the parents still got their way.
@@ms.annthropic6341 Bree, did you just call victims of people like this "useless" and "unlovable"?
!!!!!!!!
Yup. And I really appreciate how Mickey is explaining that these values are taught through sometimes subtle behaviors and conditions that aren’t inherently big or violent. Bc when my parent asks for specific instances of emotional incest (bc she’s denying it happened) it’s hard to like pinpoint an actual event
@@ms.annthropic6341 Then let's make sure the parents don't get their way.
The ones who openly talk about how much they favor their sons over their daughters break my heart. No baby deserves to feel second class in their own family. 💔
Especially when they post it online. Like even if they didn’t say that in front of their daughters, their daughters can still find their posts/videos online. Not to mention how embarrassing it is that thousands of people they don’t even know are seeing the parent express favoritism
My family prioritized boys over girls, but they're incestuous to any gender child.
I grew up that way. It hurt so bad.
The irony of it is, they often seem to do even more damage to the favorite than the other kids.
Ty ❤
It’s very common with “girl dads” in evangelical Christian circles to have emotionally incestuous relationships. They act like their daughters are the younger versions of their wives or mothers that they can puppet. It’s terrifying to grow up that way, especially if you’re also LGBTQIA+
All I think of are those Purity Balls they go to. 🤢
Why would it be more terrifying if you are LGBTQIA+? A full grown adult and parent in a “romantic” relationship to a minor and child is incest, terrifying, and gross at all levels, no matter what the child identifies as.
My mom is an evangelical Christian and she was that was towards me. Super weird. Like it makes me wanna throw up. Idk if it counts as emotional incest bc I don’t think she’s like gay or anything to be attracted to me in that way but it was very close. Ew ew ew
Yeah ive even heard about those weird religious Daddy and Daughter ceremonies where the girls are basically promising their purity and whatnot to their dads. They act like their daughters owe them chastity, it grosses me out. Its one thing to worry about their kids’ sexual wellbeing and health but another to obsess over it
@@ksis86 yeah, I think they are called promise rings, it's a whole ceremony where the girl (normally in her preteens i think) makes a promise to her dad to be chaste, and he gives her a ring to symbolise that. Disgusting
My mom told me she had me so that she could "have the relationship she didn't have with her mom". Most of this stems from unresolved trauma and grooming a child to meet their needs. It's sick. I am a woman, and she essentially used me to fill any role of relationship she lacked. Spousal, best friend, therapist etc.
Thank you for shedding light on children being both parentified and infantilising simultaneously. It is devastating and destructive to grow up in this kind of environment, it's not cute, funny, or trendy to admit in a "silly" TikTok.
Thank you posting this. This whole video has been very eye opening. My mom said the same thing to me too. The boundaries between a parent and child are non existent. I didn’t realize how bad until I moved away. But now my parent’s health’s are declining and I get sucked back in with every phone call.
I agree!
Thank you for writing that.
I was raised the same. I still live with my parents, and the worst thing is I was the one who understood the situation was wrong a few years ago, and I am the one who is trying to change that, explain, set boundaries, and reparent myself; which is ironic, considering I am once again taking on a role of a parent.
It baffles me how immature parents can be and how they romanticise that.
🎯💯
This reminds me of something from the podcast Childproof. One of the hosts said something like, "part of my job as a parent is to be my kid's first friend, but they are not my friend." And I really like that framing. A parent's job is to teach a child how to be a person. Part of that is how to be a friend and how to treat other people. But it's not a reciprocal relationship. And the goal of that teaching is for the child to have healthy relationships with other people. The hosts of the podcast also often say, "we're parenting ourselves out of a job," meaning that the goal of parenting is that your children eventually don't need you. Ideally they still want you in their lives, but if you've succeeded in your job, they are no longer dependent on you.
This boy mom stuff seems to be the opposite of that. I'm also struck by the fact that we understand that men who are overprotective of their daughters ("no dating until you're 30" type of stuff) is problematic, so why is this different?
I don’t know if you’ve found any ideas to answer your question but I’d like to chime in that it may be due to how young girls are treated.
Similar to why people have different reactions when people say “imagine it was your daughter”. If it was any random woman they don’t care much but if it’s their daughter specifically it seems like they switch up.
I don't see it as different, and my feeling is that boy mums and mommy boys are perceived as very problematic.
The mommy boy who is still living with mommy at age 40 and turns out to be a serial k1ller of prostitutes is a well-known cliché.
My ex had a really, really inappropriate relationship with his mom, he wouldn’t even say he loved me in front of her (we were engaged) because he “didn’t want to hurt her feelings” and I can’t help but feel bad now, because she was so intertwined in his life. I’m so glad I left, but I can’t help but feel bad.
WTF I thought my ex's were bad
My MIL was like this too, along with a lot of other crazy. I really believe that women that treat their sons (or kids) this way already have abusive/controlling tendencies and have learned that this Marie Barone-type overbearing mom way of handling their kids, because they just love them sooo much, is socially acceptable for a woman and provides a lot of plausible deniability for all their narcissistic drama
Don’t. You really shouldn’t. Originally, the fault is on the mother, but as an adult, it’s his choice to continue this.
The only healthy thing you could do was leave. That’s a situation which would have been detrimental for you, and you would not have been able to help him if he’s not ready or doesn’t recognise the issue. It would’ve just been a constant tug of war between you and the abusive mum.
Currently in this relationship and yeah you shouldn't feel bad. I mean it is sad for the boy/man. Really tragic. But I feel like I've been robbed of a happy life for staying. I can't believe it took this long for both of us to realize just how bad it is. We're only starting to make steps now to find ways to deal with it after more than 10 years of it being a constant issue. Worst part is we both worked for her for a long time too so we never got to push back, never felt secure if she wasn't happy. I've spent waaayyy more time trying to make this woman happy than I ever have for anyone else. She feels like a part of our relationship and she's always one of the main factors in any of our decisions. It's a fucking nightmare. At this point we're saving up money to move far away.
Man, I am incredibly grateful for my mother in law. She and my husband are close, but not in a weird way, and she was like "yay, bonus daughter" not "boo, rival for my son's affection" when he and I got serious.
As an only child of a seriously messed up family....hearing that maybe I'll some day have a mom-in-law that's like "yay bonus daughter" almost made me cry.
That's deep. Thank you for your perspective. I never would have thought about this.
I am a no contact daughter who has a wonderful MIL. It’s possible 🤞🏽 I wish this for all future spouses
Yes my husband had a deep healthy relationship with his mom (now passed on) and when we got engaged she embraced me and my kids from a previous relationship as part of the family. I used to love to visit her and my FIL and they were so awesome to us. My MIL was a blessing!
The same thing happened with my partner's grandparents, who raised him. After a while, I was their granddaughter. I love them ❤
The part about girls and their fathers and the "my dad has a shotgun" trope made me think about someone I knew who got married to her boyfriend of many years. At the wedding her dad said to the boyfriend (paraphrasing) "remember if you decide to hurt her, I have a lot of guns". Cut to several years later, she divorced him for a number of reasons, but guess whose side her parents took? Yeah, they decided it must have been her fault for not trying hard enough, and that he was blameless despite years of evidence of him being a deadbeat.
Wow, that’s horrifying and embarrassing for the parents of that poor girl. Yikes!
it's almost like they don't actually care about their daughters and just want to feel cool and alpha- nahh, that can't be it
It’s all about supporting the (bullshit) traditional community values. The tough dad shit is a “ honor” culture signifier, and when she got a divorce, she embarrassed her father because now he has an aging unmarried daughter. I saw the exact same thing happen with a close relative who was in an abusive relationship.
That's awful but also (sorry) a kinda fascinating confirmation that none of this conservative nonsense about "protecting women" is true
@@PlayerTenji95 how is it embarrassing for her parents? It sounds like they don't actually care that much about her if they're saying the divorce was her fault (when the husband wasn't putting equal effort into it) and that splitting was necessary if she wanted a more fulfilling life. If anyone should be embarrassed, it's the ex-husband.
We millenials had the whole "daddy's little girl" parenting. My dad called me and my sister "his little girls" and was grossly over protective of us, used us as emotional support, and grossly bragged on how pretty we were yet got upset if someone agreed a little too much, etc. Raised me to not be reliant on any man too much but then had the nerve to say that his goal was to raise me to be a good wife a few years ago 🤮 it also was the theme of many songs sung from a dad to daughter.
Thanks for talking about this and how messed up it is
I’ve noticed that, particularly with country songs around that time, the songs about daughters and the songs about wives are eerily similar at times. Which is gross going either direction.
My dad is so overprotective that I am almost 22 and don't have a license, and wasn't allowed to start dating till I was 21. I now have an amazing bf and I am making plans to move out but not saying anything to my parents about it.
@@honeybee3196
How tf are they going to tell someone over 18 they can't date??? Omfg I hope you get out of there soon, some advice though, if you decide to get married, do a prenup. Don't quit your job and become a "stay at home", if things go sour with your current bf (hopefully it doesn't) have a backup plan and DO NOT become financially dependent on on him. Too many young women face this problem when they leave their abusive parents and don't see the red flags in future romantic relationships.
@BloodInTheStrawberries they still tell me what to do bc I still live with them, and trust me I'm not gonna be doing the stay at home bs I can't stand being home all the time
Once I cut off a highschool 'friend' over this. Her dad was weird af with her, publicly babying and princessing and fawning on her constantly, as me being someone with the opposite type of father (also abusive but in a rejecting dismissive way) this came across to me as offputting.
18:21 I'm so glad Mickey said this. just because an adult says it's a joke, doesn't mean the kid understands that. my mum could be quite passive aggressive (she still is but I just internally roll my eyes now) when I was a kid and would say things were "jokes" but they would more often than not turn out to be 'hints' at what she actually thought or felt, so I was never sure. often people say something they know they shouldn't and then hide behind it being a "joke". and even in the case that it is a joke, very often are not in a stage in their development where they can either sense when someone is joking, or even if they logically know it's a joke, their nervous system reads it as serious. not saying you can't joke around and be funny with your kids, but not when it comes to saying emotionally abusive "jokes"
also as a side note - don't 'hint' at things to anyone, but especially not your children. it's not anyone's job to read your mind and you need to learn to clearly communicate rather than making your kids anxiously guess what they did wrong because you won't just tell them. it was very damaging to me and i am still unlearning the feeling if constantly trying to figure out what i did wrong even in situations where no one is mad at me
We have a saying in my country "It's through jokes one tells the truth". Always pay attention to "jokes", it could say something aboit what the person thinks
It's just like my two cousins and the kind of 'jokes' they say to their kids (and 2 out of the 3 of them are autistic, which makes it even worse since neurodivergent kids have an even stronger tendency to take things literally), things like 'Bye, I'm leaving forever, I'm never coming back', things that are horribly damaging to a little kid if they can't read between the lines. Or in the case of the child who is highly sensitive and cries easily, they showed me a video of them yelling her full name for absolutely no reason other than to make her cry, laughing about how she's too 'sensitive'. She. Was. A. BABY!!! 😡🤬 Babies will cry anytime someone yells, regardless of what words they're saying. It also hurt even more seeing that since I'm autistic and I'm also a HSP (highly sensitive person), so this kid is like a mini-me. 😢
I’m having a baby boy in April and I’m so excited. I can’t wait to teach him about healthy emotional intimacy, and how to cook and clean like a functional adult. It blows my mind how many men make it to adulthood without learning basic life skills.
Congrats ❤ My husband can cook and clean but his mom still thinks she's his real wife after 18 years of us being together 😂 My son is 4 years old and I don't get the weird attachment other moms have to their sons but he is different from my girls in how he needs me so I can see how a mom with emotional issues might cling to that connection.
@@joanna0988 Omg, that's so bizarre, I love my son, he is our rainbow baby, but I cannot imagine getting so weird about his future partners or having such an inappropriate emotional relationship with him. I have my husband for that, our son is wonderful and I love him so much, but that's because he is out baby ♥️
So many women honestly do not have healthy relationships neither with their partners nor sons
Because of gender roles men aren’t expected to cook and clean. But women are.
Even decent parents will forget to teach their boys to cook because they’re expected to marry women as soon as they leave college.
Most people can’t cook. So how would they teach their sons’?
Yeah I have two boys and could NEVER imagine acting the way these moms do. My husband and I are teaching our kids the same things. So glad that there’s other “boy moms” that are going to raise their boys to be normal,healthy, and functional adults.😅
A lot of this is also about gender roles and shit.
Like gender elitism. Little girls and little boys have a lot in common we just treat them like separate species because of expectations based on the child perceived gender.
Yes. Exactly. For example, I've heard people say things like, "I want to have a boy first so he can protect his little siblings." Like boys are always expected to be the protector. I was the oldest in my family and had no problem protecting my younger siblings if I had to. Lol
Being hyper focused on the gender of your child let’s you miss who they are as a whole person. My son has many qualities, some of which are stereotypically male-violent video games, messy room, questionable hygiene at times-but also so many that are coded “female”: artistic, emotionally sensitive, etc.
Ha, I am the oldest in my family (and also a girl) and growing up I punched out more than one kid for picking on my younger sister.
It’s true. My son has 3 girl cousins, and they are all so similar and so different (probably because their 3 different people) but all three love rock climbing, trampolines, legos, and dolls.
YES.
I am a survivor of emotional incest - from both of my parents.
We often don't talk about the unhealthy relationships that same gender parents can have in situations like these. People think it's so cute when moms and daughters are "best friends" but they don't realize that often the daughter was groomed for that and it wasn't her choice.
I'm sorry that happened. I went through it with my father so i understand the feeling. My heart goes out to you ❤
Yes, i feel like the "my daughter is my best friend" moms is rampant in my generation and it's creepy. Your child cannot be your best friend until they're grown and raised. You're supposed to be your child's parent, the person who guides and discipline them. It's unhealthy to raise them as your peer. Get adult friends, dumping best friend stuff on your kid is disgusting.
@@Ali_D_KattYES THIS!! Not to mention about the internalised misogyny these moms have towards their daughters. They act friendly with them in front of people, but mistreat them horribly behind closed doors. These poor girls are raised in toxic environments, that makes them act in a shallow way in their adulthood. And during these times, the fathers tend to be absent and not being able to protect their daughters from abuse. They encourage it instead...😢
I’m really glad I didn’t have this in my childhood. All of my friends and my sister had better relationships with their mothers/my own mother growing up. My sister and mom are closer now and I’m more on the outside of my family in general. But I can cope with it now better than I used to and realized it’s not my problem. But glad I didn’t have the opposite extreme looking back!
My dad did better when I was an actual kid, but yeah, he wanted to make me into his best friend when I was in my 30s. Thanks, no, Dad.
I cannot wrap my head around moms fantasizing about ANY of their CHILDREN'S weddings. It is as creepy to me as the parents who say their babies/toddlers/young kids are "flirting". Y'all the grooming calls are coming from inside the house. 😵💫
The grooming calls have always been projection, for decades. It's interesting how the biggest actual grooming phenomenon is in conservative religious institutions.
And yet people blame the drag queens
I think it’s weird to sexualize kids by saying they’re “flirting” for sure, but parents being excited for future milestones that their kids may hit (like marriage) and thinking about what it will be like, is not weird. At all. It’s only weird if it makes the parents actually upset to think about their child getting married.
@Fortheloveoflore i mean ive seen it be weird... dads recreating their daughters future weddings with themselves as the grooms as a tradition for one
Not all flirting is sexual. I can say my cat is flirting with my bestie and it is defenitely not sexual.
So, I'm like a second gen cis female child of a victim of a boy mom. Hearing about the favoritism of male children hit so hard for me. My mother has multiple awful stories about how her mother actively favored her male children.
Not to mention the whole inappropriate emotional relationships with children. I am acutely aware of "I'm my mothers only real friend". I know way more inappropriate, intimate details about my mothers marriage than she knows about any of my relationships. I have managed to maintain healthy boundaries on my side at least, i compartmentalize very well as an adult....but i do this by choice, because my mother is in an emotionally abusive marriage and if she didnt talk to me she wouldnt talk to anyone? I do feel stuck, but its sort of the "best i can do" with a shitty situation.
Trauma bleeds down thru generations and watching this cycle being promoted on tiktok hit hard. Thanks for the video!
Yup! My mom only ever makes friends with flakes or people worse than her so I’m the literal only reliable person in her life. I could never break it off completely, I know too much about her upbringing and understand why she’s like this lmao, so I just handle what I can and put boundaries up where necessary like my therapist taught me to 😂
@@chelscara Mine is just in this hyper isolation type of relationship that I /hope/ that she's finally getting ready to do something about. So she just doesn't even have flaky friends. She's recently made one healthy friendship that she's actively involved in...but good on both of us to have boundaries and therapy to help keep ourselves healthy! 🙏🙏
I am also the unpaid therapist for my mom. She dumps everything on me, and I know way too much about her traumas growing up. Yet I can’t talk to her about anything, because she’ll always deflect with “just pray and it’ll all be ok” bs. I wish she could just go to therapy and actually speak to someone qualified because she needs it, but she refuses too cause she has that mindset of “mental health is bs, you’re alive be grateful”
It was so sad when this trans girl came out to her boy mom and she stopped being the favorite child and the mom started treating her as badly as she treated her other daughters, so there is definitely a deeper issue going on...
Yeah, that’s irksome so sure. 😕
it's equality of the worst kind...most boy moms normally have a "golden boy" anyway though so even if they treat their sons better than their daughters they absolutely have one kid that's their absolute "favorite" and it's normally the youngest or oldest boys
I'm my mom's only daughter- but I'm non-binary but I don't really want to come out to my family cause I'm pretty close with my mom and I'm worried my parents will get upset and stuff, it sucks. To be fair they are very accepting of me generally and they know I'm pansexual and don't really follow gender norms anyway
completely agree! i think about this every time anna’s toxic boy mom behavior gets brought up. i can’t imagine that is isn’t going to cause problems for their trans daughter 😔
@@bookshelfhoneyI'm also scared to come out as non binary to my parents. My parents are pretty accepting of me being aroace, but I feel like my mom always put this strange emphasis on me being her "baby girl", so I'm scared to openly say it. I've hinted at it a bit tho
The girl dad bit at the end reminded me of what it was like being a teenage girl who didn't fit the beauty standards and therefore wasn't being sexualized by the boys around me. There was no one to chase away with a shotgun, and I felt a weird amount of shame and guilt about not being the sort of daughter a dad would want to protect so passionately. I felt like I was unworthy of protection and love and I felt guilty for letting down my parents. I was actually just gay, so a disappointment in a different way. But yeah this being a thing isn't benefiting anyone
This hits home.
My dad was always encouraging me to do sexual things with my boyfriend and telling me I should pose for playboy when I turn 18 and I always wished he would just protect me instead
I felt the same way when I was younger. It sucks
Yes especially the sexualization part is the worst. I thankfully didn't go that far, but my family treated me like I was an inferior, being due to being the scapegoat youngest sister.
Wow did I write this during sleep walking because damn I feel this deep in my soul
I'm not a boy but my mom begged me not to go to college out of state because she didn't want to raise the other kids (and her husband) on her own, and straight up joked that it felt like she was getting divorced and losing her partner. I love her but man, that pretty fucked up.
I hope you ended up going to that college
Because I couldn’t. For the same reason 😒
The whole "boy mom" thing with these mothers grooming their sons to put her needs first IS BY DESIGN. They know what they're doing.
Yup that part ☝️
They are also in many cases, the ones who show up at their son's wedding in a white gown.
I have the belief that anyone but the bride shows up in white. They want to have s*x with the groom.
Agreed!
My parents weren’t emotionally incestuous with myself or my brothers, but I definitely felt the difference in how we were raised based on gender. I’m the oldest, but I’m a girl. My dad wasn’t overprotective of me like a girl dad at all, it was usually the opposite. I was constantly being shamed and punished for not being lady like enough (turns out I’m autistic), while my brothers were praised for everything they did or never received punishment for any wrongdoing. We’re all in our 30’s now and I’ve worked on my feelings over the years, but I don’t forget that stuff.
Same experience here. On top of that, my brother is in his 50s and my parents are still bending over backwards for him. I’m not kidding, I could be dead for weeks, maybe even months, and my parents wouldn’t even inquire. It’s a very one sided relationship and always has been. Those are just the facts. My brother is the most important.
Autistic AFAB childhood for the win!!
I was undiagnosed and my brother was diagnosed. I still have to deal with the internalized ableism and the complete isolation I felt both from womanhood and "being one of the boys" seriously stunted my growth.
I was emotionally neglected as a kid and it's heartbreaking and heartwarming to know I'm not alone.
My brother gets off super easy for things (like physically abusing me) purely because he didn't mean it he's just autistic and has anger issues :P
He went a full year unemployed because job searching after school overwhelmed him and was unwilling to let up on his recreational marijuana use to pass a potential drug test (but he could totally quit whenever he wanted.)
I try not to diminish his experiences, but it's not my job to be open and kind to him just because he's disabled.
I wish it was easier, but I'm glad it's over.
I was adopted, as the younger sister I was expected to be "ladylike" while my brother was allowed to get away with farting, burping, swearing etc (I was diagnosed with autism at 17, but I'm going for a second assessment now I'm 40). I was quite salty at the time over the injustice, but as adults, me and my brother are both now comfortable being either super polite or uncouth as the mood or occasion takes us XD
Never forget! They don't deserve your love for nothing. And I empathise, my dad also rejected and dismissed me for being ASD, even calling teenaged me a 'bitch' or crazy or ugly in front of other people. He thinks I've forgiven and forgotten, but there ain't no way like Aretha said.
This trend has made me realize whats up w my mom and my brother. She clearly favors him but feels constantly betrayed by him being his own person.
It’s not a trend. It’s mental illness-and has been around for millennia. You could try to suggest family therapy. If she won’t do it, as soon as you can, go talk it out for yourself. Back your brother up when he behaves like a normal person, too. You can give him a healthy family relationship and give that to yourself as well. ♥️✌️🙏
Cringe 😬
Enmeshment.
@@justkiddin84the trend is women going on social media and embrassons this title of “boy mom” and being open about their emotionally incestuous feelings. The trend is the boy mom thing, not the existence of these types of relationships.
I'm not a boy but I was a victim of my mother's emotional incest. It's taken years to come to grips with that
Same, its kind of nice to see someone else that has a similar experience to me. The genders being different is making it a lot harder for other people to take it seriously, from my experience so far (only recently realized what's been going on). I'm glad you realized what was happening, I hope you have/can have the safe and loving relationships you deserve ♥
Unfortunately same. I'm still in the "every time I get passed one thing I find another to work on overcoming" stage in my 30s
Same here y'all. It's been a 14 yr unpacking process and it's still a lingering issue. Wild.
Same. I'm 43 and only just beginning to unpack. Feel so stupid sometimes for not seeing everything more clearly til now.
Same here, finally starting to directly unpack this now in therapy after being no contact with her for several years
Being the mom of a boy isn’t toxic inherently of course. But choosing to personally identify as a “boy mom” is red flag behavior. Has always read like the I’m-not-like-other-girls type of girl 🤷♀️
Pick-me-up girl to Boy Mom pipeline is real
100% this! The only person I know who does the "boy mom" thing is very, very emotionally unwell and a "pick me" where men are concerned.
*pick me to boy mom to mother in law from hell pipeline
@@lanaharper9798the unholy trinity 🙏
@@MintyFreshCupcakesI think it’s all stupid. I mean for one you’re the one who calls someone else a pick me, and the other is just them calling themselves moms of a boy child which they are, y’all unnecessarily gender everything else so don’t act up when they do it.
I was married to a toxic boy who's mom was a toxic boy mom. It was hell on earth, no joke. This man _hated_ his mom. His dad tragically died when he was 13 of a brain tumor which is very traumatic. His mom didn't get him help and his anger was out of this world. His mom tried to turn her son into her husband...it wasn't good. When I got with him, he seemed fine. I had no idea about narcissism, mirroring, projecting. He acted like me and I fell in love with myself~ all for it to be switched up after we married. He turned into a monster and did t resemble the guy I dated at all. Selfish, irritable, incredibly angry, complaining, bouts of rage that resulted in road rage and him breaking and throwing things around me. When I cried, he'd rage. He told me my tears and emotions were manipulative, which I didn't understand. Me being upset at how he was acting was a reasonable response to what was happening~ but he couldn't separate me from his mother and how toxic she was~ it colored his whole understanding of women. 😢
He also pretended he was a "Christian", and I was, at that time~ no longer, now because of the spiritual abuse I went through at his hands and the hands of the Church when I tried talking to leaders about the abuse I was experiencing.
What a mess. He used me as a buffer between himself and his mother while we were married....it was insanity. His mom gave me the heebie-jeebies, and she was sooooo toxic.
So relieved to hear you're free of that. You were used by these sick, tragic people.
bro i had a "boy mom" relationship with my mom. Growing up she always told me how much she wanted a little girl to bake with and do girly stuff with. She had 3 boys before me, two of which were obviously showing signs of mental illness to which she and my father ignored and abused them for. I was taught ever since i was a baby that i was the "good one" and feared my parents response whenever i wasnt. It ended up in me emotionally distancing myself from them and never opening up to them about stuff, always keeping personal feelings hidden. My mom to this day is still hurt by me being so distant and not wanting to spend time with her anymore but thats just what you get when you put all your emotional satisfaction into a child as their parent. Its so innapropriate and damaging. I hope that one day she'll take the hint and realize that i dont owe her shit for just existing and being her child.
As always, thank you so, so much Mickey. Your videos to help inform people about healthy relationships and mental health have helped me heal and you are by far one of my favorite youtubers ever
When she said she lets her son punch his sisters, that hits home.
Being the scapegoat of my family dynamic, the male Golden Child was allowed to abuse, threaten, and degrade me. Then my parents either did nothing about it or blamed me for it. It's traumatic to me ... and also sabotaged my brother by instilling the attitude that everyone else is to blame for his problems in his life.
"Maybe he's having a hard day" isn't an excuse for violence, EVER. Kids need to learn that from a young age.
I'm so sorry, that sounds absolutely terrible 🥺 I wish you all the best moving forward 🌻
my older brother has anger management issues. i once had to threaten my parents that i would go to the police if they let my brother hit me again (he was 18 and i was still a minor) to get them to even acknowledge that he had done something wrong at all. there was still no punishment though. meanwhile i was often punished for saying mean things to my brother because “it damages his self-esteem.” but they had no consideration for how spending my entire childhood living in fear of being beaten by someone twice my size might effect me.
@@griffin1155It was so validating to read this. Sounds exactly like my childhood and I felt like a crazy person.
Nobody wins, really
And having an off comment like "I'm the problem", but not making any effort to address it, is really shitty too
I'm so sorry this happened to you and everyone else in the comments, it's really horrible the homes some kids are born into, I hope you're doing better and finding healing ❤
In your opinion what would a family member be able to do to help you? I have a family member very close to me going through the same thing and want to help
So the mom who let her son hit her girls is excited for her girls to get married... after learning that it's OK for men to hit them if they're struggling emotionally. I can only hope they can break the cycle and go no contact with this poor excuse for a mother before they end up in an abusive relationship.
My worst ex, a guy with narcissistic personality disorder (and not in the overused online way, a legit NPD case), had an unhinged Emotional Incest Boy Mom and I'm convinced that was to blame for him being like that. She was so creepy. She had a crying public meltdown when she overheard me casually say "love you, baby" to him at a dinner. We'd be in his room watching TV, only for her to appear scantily dressed and flirtatiously giggle while prancing around the room. It felt like a pick me girl trying to mess with you by flirting with your bf, like "I could take your man if I wanted to"...but it was his mom.
🎯 concerning NPD causation...
Personality disorders like NPD don’t develop without some severe trauma in early life. An alarming amount of people with NPD experienced CSA and/or incest. His mom sounds disgusting. No amount of harm your ex may have done to you is okay, but it’s awful that he had to go through that. I hope you’re doing better now
That woman needed therapy YEARS ago. And your ex equally needs help. Yikes.
Sounds like the mother also had NPD which is pretty common with cases of emotional incest. Insanely inappropriate attention-seeking behavior
I remember being in my ex's kitchen and he kissed me just as his mum walked into the room and she ran out crying.
Something else I found out later was that when he'd go and stay with her she made him sleep in the same room as her (he was 24)
A note on the "girl dad" violence/possession masking as protection: having it drilled that dad would (expletive) any boy that touched/hurt me left me WOEFULLY unprepared to protect or advocate for myself at all. I was never taught how to navigate uncomfortable situations with men. Couple that with the ingrained conservative parent value of instant obedience, never ever being able to say no, and men being inherent leaders you listen to... you can imagine how my formative experiences went. And no, when dad found out, he (and mom) did nothing but blame me, as "it takes two to tango". F*ck everything about this culture.
Thank you for posting this. It really make something click in my mind. Growing up in conservative rural Western cultures, this is really sadly common.
The thing about these dynamics is the children WILL be resentful, and sometimes it ends in the children having very little contact or completely cutting off all contact with their parents.
The 'girl dad' dynamic runs so deep in my family that my father and paternal grandfather would tell me "no dating until I'm dead" and make threats about having a gun out in the open if I ever brought a boy home. My father was so obsessed with my purity and innocence that I would get yelled at for things like wearing makeup or trendy clothing, cutting my hair short, and just growing up. The only times I could be myself were when he was not home or if I was at a friend's house and even then I would get yelled at if I didn't scrub off every last trace of mascara from my eyes. I am so grateful that my father abandoned me and my siblings right around the age I started dating, it was a huge weight off my shoulders not having to do the awkward meet and greet with my partner.
I don't immediately grimace at the sentiments that could be construed as "It's bittersweet seeing my child grow up." But when it comes to the videos of moms issuing challenges to their son's fictional future girlfriend, where sometimes their son is still a toddler and the assumption of heterosexuality is its own problem on top of the mom's sexism. Or when the moms explicitly compare their son and daughter, claiming the love for their son is just different or deeper. Those moms should not be parents, imo.
And those moms usually turn out to be the worst when it might turn out, oh, your son is your actually your daughter!! So many terfs are exactly this type of mom to their kids.
A good parent does't even see the gender of their kids, just like you don't treat pets differently based on gender
Louder for the once in the back 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@fran791 it isn't that a parent wouldn't see their kid's gender. That would be erasing an important part of a person's identity and experiences.
But a good parent does aim to teach their children how to navigate the world with those differences, and accepts who that child is, without expectation of who they're "supposed" to be
The vast majority of society is heterosexual, there's nothing wrong with assuming your child is heterosexual until you get proof otherwise. It's literal odds.
There’s a movie about moms like this and it’s called Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho
top comment in my world 💯😆
Which is based on the worst Boy Mom that ever lived, Ed Gein's Mother
@@AngelinaParkerI was thinking about that case during this 😂 Especially with some of the comments talking about how these mothers basically cripple their sons by making them unloveable to anybody other than their mothers and I was like
“Bingo, that’s Eddie Gein!” 😅
Best comment ever!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@AngelinaParker I don't like to defend serial killers or show sympathy, but it’s wild how Ed could have been a less awful person if it weren’t for his mom…
I don't have human kids but I have two male cats. I can't wait for them to grow up and stop breaking things.
Same. They're only 7 months. When will they settle down a bit?
@@amygreen9662I have 2 male cats , they calmed down a bit between 1 and 2 years old.
That will never happen.
Same, mine are a year old now and I'm so grateful they're settling down finally
But are you jealous of their future cat girlfriends?
as a victim of emotional incest, you never fully get over it. the feelings of inferiority and loneliness is very real. i’m currently trying to untangle myself from my mother and it’s so unbelievably difficult. i don’t know how to feel half the time and when i do, i can’t figure it out.
Right... You feel like shell of a person
My last ex brought his mom to my house when we broke up to pick his things up. And when I asked “why did you bring your mother?” he said “she is my best friend, we talk about everything!” that was all I needed to know. I was in a “secret competition” with his mother
So I'm raising three young boys, and whenever I heard "boy mom" I always assumed it was about the little quirks that come along with that. Like humor revolving around farts and having to deal with sending your kid into a bathroom you can't enter, you know? I had no idea this was an aspect of it and yikes. I'm more grateful every day that I don't have a tiktok lol.
Same, girl! I just thought it meant you had all boy kids. 😅
Nope, boy no also love having their little boys (that they haven’t taught better) to go into the women’s bathroom wayy into preteenhood, that often times like to go around the bathroom trying to look into the stalls or succeeding to look into the stalls and/or changing rooms of locker room types. There’s a whole lot of other things you’d allow if you were a “boy mom” as well.While you are a mom of boys, you don’t sound like you’re a “boy mom,”which is a good thing.
I mean you can it’s not bad thing to be a woman in the men’s bathroom. It’s just a certain age it’s creepy to follow your kids to one. Especially if they’re starting to mature and separate.
A lot of the boy mom stuff relates to patriarchy and gender roles so I feel like if any parent worries about mirroring this behavior. Start being critical on how we raise boys and girls and intersex children.
Same! I thought it meant you had no daughters.
I’ve probably blindly called myself a boy mom not knowing 😅😳
Helicopter parenting is never good no matter the gender.Kids need to make mistakes and choices on their own so they can grow to an adult that can do the same .
I think society also plays a part in pushing moms towards this and rewarding it. I'm a mom to a toddler, and most of my identity right now revolves around being a parent. And yet, whenever I carve out boundaries for myself, I feel guilt and shame (from messages through media and communities) that I'm not 100% focused on my child. Also, I'm sure the assumption by the parents that all these children are cis-het will just make it harder for the children to explore their identities as they grow up.
'' Also, I'm sure the assumption by the parents that all these children are cis-het will just make it harder for the children to explore their identities as they grow up. ''
I think that treating your kids like their cis het but at the same time supporting the lgbt comunity and telling them '' Remember I'll love you no matter what gender or sexuality you are '' would make it easier for them to explore their identities as they grow up.
just wanted to say, it's 100% valid and good even for you to take time and space for yourself. as long as your kid is being taken care of, you don't need to feel guilt or shame for taking care of yourself. ultimately, it will allow you to be a better parent in the time you are spending with your kid(s) and that's better for everyone. ❤
edit to add that I totally agree with the cishet thing because I cannot imagine how these types of parents would react to their child being lgbtq. for the kids' sake I hope they're able to get support outside of the family.
I say this as an adult daughter, but please don’t ever be apologetic or embarrassed when enjoying your own hobbies and personal interests and sharing that info with your kids. It shows your kids healthy exploration, multi-faceted, and depth to you as a human being and as a mother. Being that selfless overly devoted mother, even if done with good intentions, your kids might take for granted, pick up similar but unhealthy habits, or expect their future relationships to be the same.
It’s not easy though, I know. Mothers get so much flack for doing anything that is “selfish” and not 100% centered around their kids for any moment in time. Then they get shamed when it ultimately pushes them to revolve their identity around their kids. Damned if you; damned if you don’t. Everyone’s a critic no matter what answer you give. So I have a lot of sympathy and respect towards mothers, despite not ever planning to be one, with how terribly the systems sets you up and treats you.
I agree! I'm doing the whole single mom thing, and it was even harder to have to ask someone to babysit (as opposed to their dad watching them) just so I could relax for a little while.
Evangelical culture trying to aggressively force people (through indoctrination and political power) to be cis get conservative parents and find their identity in being parents.
This kind of attitude is very normalized where I live (Italy), so much so it's very common to joke about your mother-in-law hating you or your partner being a mammone (which basically means a man who's attached to his mom almost to a pathological degree).
I've never been in this situation myself but I've lost count of how many of my friends have these sorts of issues in their relationships: the boyfriend's mom being overbearing, jealous of his son's girlfriend and constantly fighting for his attention, trying to sabotage the relationship in any way possible and even asserting her ownership over her adult son's body...
It's truly insane and it makes me think that in a way it's a product of patriarchal and misogynistic cultural attitudes.
There's a stigma in the US about Italian moms acting this way as well! Some cultural traditions have persisted even generations after immigration.
Per fortuna è una cosa che negli anni sta svanendo. Mio padre era un boymom e ha forti tratti narcisistici, mia madre ha dovuto lasciarlo perchè era psicologicamente e fisicamente abusivo nei confronti di me e mia sorella. Tanti uomini che crescono viziati spesso sviluppano personalità patologiche e un senso di entitlement immenso
Seems to be a similar thing in Latino culture too. I remember suggesting to my ex boyfriend that he start catching the bus to his swim training or that it would be nice if he came to visit me for a change, I lived in Auckland and he lived in Dunedin we were basically in a long distance relationship. His response was "but my mum would be so hurt and upset." How is a morning or weekend without your grown son that upsetting?
Oh yes, definitely connected to misogyny and gender expectations
@@mekko902 that's very interesting! It never crossed my mind this could be an issue in Italian American families too
Even though the first mom says at the end, "This is a problem, I/we should stop doing this," she says it with such a smirk of perverse glee... There's a kind of pride in doing something that you know is wrong, that you know you should change, but you have no intention of changing.
As a teacher, seeing this behavior is so horrifying. As a person who was a victim of incest of various forms from various people, thank you for making this video!!
I have three sons. My oldest is 22, and my twins will be 15 next month.
This behavior is harmful toward their long term development. I married a mama’s boy, and let me tell you, it was beyond horrible. She tried everything she could to separate us, hang onto him, and then create distance between me and my own sons. It was horrific.
Please, moms, take pride in your sons, but keep the boundaries healthy. It’s possible. And it’s necessary.
What ended up happening? She seems like a good candidate for no contact
Currently going through similar with my future MIL and it it difficult. It hurts her son when she says or does rude things to the woman he loves. I’ll never understand why people do this
@Chelseabee55 You're not doing yourself or your fiance any favors by being with him while he's still in a toxic relationship with his mother. He needs to get that worked out before bringing a new person into their dynamic.
@@Indyawillis85 respectfully, you don't know the situation so you can't comment on it. Yes he has been standing up to her and yes he and I are in a healthy relationship and no we don't need to break up, good christ what a judgement
@@dalishrogue3621 , we did go no contact. We waited too long; lesson learned. After 12 years of hell, my late husband laid a boundary with his mother. They cut us off immediately. They then tried to still have access to our children, unsupervised of course. We said we were willing to rebuild all together and to try it with respect this time. They wouldn’t have it, so that was that.
We moved to another state and started over. Those were the best years of our marriage.
My husband passed three years ago. It’s now just me and my boys. Life is very different now, but very peaceful and calm. We all have an equal voice and we have so much respect for each other. I didn’t know life could be like this.
It def happens with mom-daughter relationships.
I felt absolutely 100% responsible for my mom's wellbeing. She was definitely way too attached/protective. She has literally said things like "you're my everything" and "if you ever moved far away it would rip my soul out!"
I'm glad I've learned about how harmful these dynamics are. It's answered a lot for me. Now I'm trying to work through it all.
Literally the same thing with me. She’d say I’m her prized possession and her property and ask to live with me once I moved out of my dad’s house. Just weird.
@@Ishouldnthavebeensopublic omg yes!! She acted like I was disowning her when I moved out 😣
I feel you. I hope you're doing well now haha!
Yeah, me and my mom right here. They wanna marry their sons, they wanna make us their Moms 😬😬
Same.
Still wild to me that Anna Saccone went from one of the first beauty UA-camrs to toxic boy mom.
Imagine if she used that "he's having a hard day" excuse after hearing he's a woman beater in the future.
She was a beauty UA-camr? I only ever knew her as a shitty exploitative vlogger
She's Irish so it doesn't suprise me. Never met an Irishman that didn't have a weird relationship with their mother.
You know…………. you’re really not wrong
She was the one who taught me about being short-waisted with violin hips, and that's why low-rise jeans never fit the way I wanted them to. Learning that helped me stop blaming myself for feeling "fat." It's disappointing to see her go in this direction 😓
As a daughter... I've always felt responsible for my mom's happiness. I hated seeing her sad, and boy dont let her be mad either... "Happy Wife Happy Life" is the saying they tell husbands...but that horrible phrase impacts the children too. Im 29 trying to set boundaries with her for the first time. Didn't realize i could lol.
That's great! Boundaries were never taught in my childhood home, either, but they can be learned and enforced. They can get stronger as you go.
When I clicked on this video I didn't expect to be so seen. My mother was very enmeshed with my brother and I. So much so that he is still single and he is 54. He still lives with her too. I went no contact and after 7 years I am actually healing. I have worked hard as a mother of 2 to give both my kids all the room they need to be themselves and I try my best to identify when I might be leaning towards talking to them as if they are a confidante. I want my kids to be independent and adults with their own separate lives. I appreciate you talking about this in case any parents aren't aware of what they are doing to their kids. I am sure my mom was never aware but I do have a lot of her trauma I have carried most of my life and I am just learning to put that down because it is not my burden. Anyway, after all that I want to say thank you for making this!
"trauma soup" is such an accurate way to describe living through this kind of parenting. it's fucking hard but i'm glad to see this phenomenon discussed this way... i hate that this is seen as desirable behavior in a parent, boymoms, girldads, girlmoms, boydads, anyone can perpetuate this to a child of any gender. still struggling 10 years out after 20 or so years of emotional abuse in my family of origin, tackling a lot of this in therapy already, but we've still got work to do.
Are you also going to talk about father being obsessed about their daughters virginity particularly in fundie circles. Think thats on a whole other level of boy moms.
She spoke briefly about this by the end of the video.
Yeah, that is so creepy and gross.
lol ive just heard that bit lol i made my comment too early!@@bluester7177
huWHAT. didn't even know this was a thing 🤢
@@seraphik Oh yes. Some even go so far as to have "purity balls" and take engagement style photos and everything (with purity rings of course) in white dresses, but it's a father and daughter.
As a son of one of these mothers. Thank you Thank you for spreading awareness. I can't describe the deep, shameful wounds I developed from my life because of this favoritism and neediness ❤ I struggle w so much addiction, identity confusion, cptsd, etc. And from the outside my mom just loved me very much. But there's something more sinister inside that nobody knows unless you've experienced the damage of emotional incest in childhood. (Also u mentioned attachments and yep I have disorganized attachment and it's horrible I feel unstable all the time in relationships)
idk u but u r not alone luv u
@@Irhaablackrose ❤🥺
This might (partly, as mum tried to treat me and my brother equally, but he was kind of the favourite) explain why I used to feel so emotionally unstable in (mostly VERY short-lived) romantic relationships, or even just when I was crushing on someone (I'd go through a cycle of emotions from euphoric to barely functioning depression, and back up to euphoria again, as well as verging on panic attacks and other fun stuff in between. It was exhausting, confusing and scary, and I only started to figure out what might be going on through therapy, but I still feel like there's a bit more to pin down here).
I've always struggled with making/keeping friends; it's getting better, but still got a lot to learn, which doesn't feel good at 40 years of age.
I was given up for adoption as a toddler which is another big part of the issue, but my adoptive parents didn't exactly help that much.
I just read "I'm Glad My Mom Died" and hearing the description of emotional incest, all I could think was that if you take out the gender specific parts, this is exactly what Jennette McCurdy's mom was like.
21:30 I appreciate what you talk about right here because it describes my situation to a T. I'm a woman in my 30s and I have a strained relationship with my mom now because "I was her whole world" growing up. As background she wanted to have a large family but my parents had a very difficult time conceiving so even though they tried for a long time I ended up being their only child. (Also I'd love to hear your insights on growing up as an only child. It can be kind of a unique experience). As I look back I can tell she put her entire identity in being a mom to a child and now that I'm grown I can see the damage it's done to her relationship with other people, with me and with her own self. I can see her struggling now because she liked the idea of being a mom to a child but not really a mom to an adult. She tries but I can tell that she doesn't like that I grew up and became independent and that gives me all sorts of complicated and weird feelings.
Very similar to what I went through, except I have a younger brother. My mom is definitely a boy mom to him, but she expected me to be her confidant and savior. It's taken decades to undo the damage. It's wild bc she has expectations that we will marry (I am married but haven't told my family bc they are very abusive) but then turns around and has standards so high no human can ever fulfill them, making it impossible for either of us to enter into a relationship with anyone that will make HER happy
I'm having a boy in June. And I find it so weird and wrong to have those delusional views about your OWN son. So gross. As a parent, it's your job to help your child be as independent as possible as they grow, NOT raise them to be your lover.
All parents view their children as extensions of themselves. When you realize that altruism isn't real, things become clearer. Not necessarily easier, but clearer.
@@cultreader9751I don't think it's all parents. But a lot of parents do
@@cultreader9751you need help.
@@cultreader9751""altruism isn't real"" I will take that as everyone has emotional needs. Some of these are just like child needs, that are really inadequate to still have in adulthood, but this just can be a factor of why this dynamic can happen
Anyways, an adult needs to search strong support and connection in OTHER ADULT! Not on a child, not on their son or daughter!
That's why a strong marriage (and healthy relationships by extension) are really important
As a note, excuse my wording, I'm not a native speaker,😊
@@luisapaza317 i meant it more literally (there's no such thing as an action done purely out of the kindness in one's heart), but I agree with your overall sentiment.
I did my master degree thesis on this subject, but precisely on the mother-daughter relationship. I also used mimesis and mimetic theory to explain some of it, as my main subject was literature explains of emotional (or symbolic) incest. I wish we talked about this subject MORE, alongside parentalization.
Some of us as the oldest get the double whammy
My ex MIL did a lot of emotional incest with my ex husband. She was so jealous of all of his girlfriends and of me. The explanation why she did this was because her husband did not give her the connection she wanted/needed. I don’t buy it. I also did not my relationship needs met in my marriage. I have a son and would not do this to him. I made a commitment to my children that I would do my best to not fuck up my kids!
And even if that excuse was “true”- that enough is yikes. Like jeez normal people have an affair, imagine creeping on your son in response
As someone who was in his same situation but as a girl I buy that explanation 100%. I had to stop talking to my mother entirely because she never stopped trying to get her emotional needs met through me rather than her actual spouse or the many other appropriate avenues available to her. Some people just love their status quo and having their needs met in a way that's readily accessible to them more than they love their child and their child's healthy development.
I'm glad you actually love your kid.
Yeah I think her explanation is true though. My mom did the same thing to me and my brother, and we had an emotionally absent, verbally/mentally abusive father. Instead of leaving him, she just kind of used us to fill that emotional role. No like actual incest or anything, gross, but emotional, for sure.
In different ways too, I’m the gay son, so it manifested as me being her therapist, words of affirmations, etc. my brother, the older & heterosexual one, played football, became like the “protector” of my mom, whenever my dad would have an episode. It’s extremely weird looking back.
Me and him even had a talk the other night, after his recent girlfriend broke up with him. How he’s getting help now professionally, and he said his therapist said “it sounds like you don’t know who you really are”. And I have heard the same sentiment from my own therapist.
Raising your sons like this, is alllll bad. Kids aren’t supposed to be that ingrained into your problems and your life like that. Neither of us had the time to cultivate a stronger sense of self, because it was always wrapped up in that BS.
Just because you didn't react that way, that doesn't mean other people won't. For example, we know statistically speaking that if you are abused as a child, you're more likely to abuse others growing up. But obviously that's not true for all abused children.
I do think the boy mom phenomenon is more complicated than just the mom's emotional needs not being met. But I think for many cases, that is a part of it. The problem is that these moms do not have the emotional maturity to properly handle this situation, and instead take it out on their children.
@@KingLizardCountry facts
I would be really interested to hear you talk about emotional incest between moms and their daighters. In my personal experience, Ive found that theres an added layer of jealousy towards to object of emotional incest as well, that is often missing in the mom/son relationship. (Obviously not always, just speaking from personal experiences).
My ex fiances mother was like this with him. It made me feel really sad because she was so insecure and intrusive and clearly very unhappy in her own self. Aside from the impact on our relationship, the heart breaking thing was that my ex fiance died young in a sudden accident. I don't think his mother ever recovered and he passed away before ever becoming independent and maturing as a man, having a partner or a child, separate from her.
Ya, there can be toxic boy mom’s who hate their daughters. And yes, she let him get away with physical abuse to me as well as others. At 34, she even threaten to have my brother physically violently harm me as someone who has C-ptsd. She also pretty much saved his marriage while I was struggling horribly.. even 3 professionals told her to make a relationship with me.. but again she neglected me.
Meanwhile my whole life, I was her cushion for issues.. a parentified child.
I’m glad you brought this up.
Damn I hope she's no longer a part of your life!
This gives me huge ick as a child carer as well. I work with infants and toddlers, and while we dont encourage it we do have little ones come up and try to hug and kiss us. Saying the whole "be their first kiss" thing, just makes any kind of contact with a kid feel gross to me.
Sheesh. I had no idea when I clicked on this video it would put so much of my own life into perspective. Not so much the "emotional incest" type of manipulation but I grew up with my mom relentlessly lamenting that my sister and I were her ENTIRE world. I am now a married adult who feels an immense weight of responsibility for my mother's happiness at all times. The thought of disappointing her in any way makes me *actually* want to vomit. That "ripped in half" feeling you describe? Oh my dear lord...the accuracy.
I hope you have a good therapist who can help you through this because I don't know how you live like that.
Ooo I can relate so much. It's hard to undo all the guilt programming that has no basis in reality. Being your own person isn't a betrayal but it's hard to believe when you geow up like that. ❤
I feel you - I moved out and a-mum has started dropping the occasional "you're all I've got" when I visit... except she also says that about the dog and her daughter in law/son, too XD she actually has lots of people around her who care and would/do help when it's needed, sometimes without even being specifically asked, but she definitely has strong favourites... favourites who are also trying to lead their own lives and want no part in being held hostage emotionally.
She's got depression and I want to help her, but at the same time the urge to run away screaming like my hair is on fire, as an act of self defence, is much stronger.
Do see a good therapist who will help you learn to set appropriate boundaries. You are not responsible for another adult's happiness even if they gave birth to you. It will be scary at first but ultimately less stressful as you develop your healthy sense of self. Good luck!
Took me 45 years to break and the lose of my daughter because the shit my mom put me (therefore us) through.
As someone who was raised in a household where mom's emotional security was the ultimate priority, it has been SO deeply healing to empower my own son by saying things like, "Yes, I'm upset. And that's ok. It is NOT your fault and you don't have to fix it. I'm an adult, and I'll take care of my feelings in a moment. Do YOU need any snuggles or to talk about anything first?" It was work to learn how to do that, but it is incredibly freeing and feels SO GOOD to give my child the emotional autonomy my parents didn't know how to give me.
I don't comment often on videos, but this really opened my eyes on how my mom treats me, I am a legal adult but I still live with her because of money issues, she had me really young and would tell me when I was younger that I saved her life just by being born and that I'm am her world, I was also pretty calm and she held me then and now in such a high regard and it really put a lot of pressure on me, I didn't expect to come to this much of a realization on a boy mom video but what you said really just hit me ❤
These video clips creep me out so much. I grew up with parentification and that was bad enough. As a parent it’s SO important to maintain a sense of self, to take care of yourself, have your own identity outside of parenthood.
Mickey, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE if you could one day make a video about the roles of children in birth order (like the oldest child, middle child, a baby of the family) and how parents put them in certain identities or roles, how to avoid, and the like! I also really enjoyed learning about responsive versus spontaneous desire and would love to hear more from you on that!
I agree!
I feel like my mother did this to me as a child, she was always jealous of my partners and friends. So weird and creepy. I would never “joke” about emotional incest. Thank you for covering this topic
Thank you for discussing this. I am the daughter of a boy mom and unfortunately I’ve experienced the whole thing where the mom excuses my brother for physically and emotionally abusing me because he is the favorite. Hearing you talk about this is validating and I’m so glad to see more people speak about it.
I can vouch for how damaging this dynamic is. Especially because the parent's abuse can be almost ENTIRELY covert. It has made me feel so much overwhelming guilt for setting boundaries with my mom. I still question if I'm overreacting to her behavior. It would be easier in a way if there was more explicit abuse.
It was incredibly validating to hear how it could make the child not know their own wants and needs. My agency and sense of self were so repressed, I learned that the only way I could receive true love from another person was to submit to their will completely and devote myself to their happiness.
I have done a lot of healing work and am, at 26, finally getting to know myself on a deep level. I struggle daily with these beliefs and maladaptive coping methods. The best thing I have done in my life was setting boundaries with her.
Thank you so much for making this video and going into this topic ❤❤❤❤❤
You talking about the breaking down of boundaries in these situations is really important. I still struggle with boundaries, both my own and others, and I'm almost forty. Being autistic also _really_ doesn't help, and I wasn't diagnosed until about three years ago. Boundaries are difficult when almost your entire family have stomped on yours for years, but then get mad when you violate theirs and don't bother to teach you anything the right way, they just scream at you. I'm glad you're on UA-cam helping people like me.
Fellow boy mom here. I definitely resonate with the not feeling ready for milestones. My kid is only a year old so things like him starting to walk make me realize the dynamic is changing and I'm sad to lose the things i really enjoy about this phase of life but i would NEVER hold him back to soothe my desire to slow down time. I try to focus on the joy i feel at participating in these milestones with him and try to take joy every day in the ways he is learning and growing.
My aunt is like this. My cousin is 32 now. Still thoroughly tied up in her apron strings. Hasn't worked a day in his life and lives off of his parents' money. Was totally the golden child.
My aunt doesn't like that he has a girlfriend and thinks she's holding him back. From what? Being more of a lazy lump than he already is?
His older sister isn't *much* better, but at least she actually finished her bachelor's...
Really surprising how he even managed to get a girlfriend in the first place, wondering what type of woman would go for such a dude... 😅
@@xLiLlyx98small place, not many people their age, and he is moderately good looking. also, she grew up right across the street from him.
no accounting for taste, i guess...
The girlfriend needs to run.
@@ms.c9979agreed
@@pris1378 well, in such cases I always assume a lot of dysfunction in the partners family as well, that's the only explanation for why they ultimately would consider this. I mean yes, all the reasons you listed, but a healthy individual would rather be single I think 😆
I finally could unpack what's wrong with me after all of these years thanks to this video. I spent my whole entire childhood with my late mom and grandma and guess what? Instead of my mom, my grandma gave same treatment like mentioned in this video to my mom and me. We don't have autonomy for ourselves, every time we start a new relationship my grandma always interfering in some way or another. After both of them passed away, my family can't stop pointed out to my face how sheltered I am as result of this treatment.
Once again thank you for this video and your last message, I feel like I could pinpoint specific problem to be working with my therapist
There was this Instagramer who got pregnant a 2nd time and she said it better be a boy and it wasn't, she was upset. Her husband made a happy birthday post for the second girl and he said I wanted a boy but happy birthday Layla. Like what ????
I’m very aware of parentification and making your kid your therapist because my parents did that to me. So when I had my kid I made sure I had doctors and therapists as I had bipolar and only told my kid age appropriate stuff and got help when I needed it. One of my MH doctors said I should “trust your kid and lean on them more” and I’m like wtf no. They were 10 at the time. Highly inappropriate to expect a 10 year old to counsel me through a MH crisis. My responsibility surely was to do what I did go get adult help from a professional. They’re 18 now so I share more stuff but they’re still not my therapist. I thought that they should only know things and explanations so they never thought my MH was about them. So if I was in a crisis they knew I still loved them so much and my brain is just not working properly but I would do everything to make it better and they can still expect support from me no matter if I was in a crisis or not.
Weird that they recommended that every journal I’ve read says it’s terrible. It certainly felt terrible when it was done to me. I had to rely on doctors for myself because it was one way. That’s sad but it’s not my kids fault and I wasn’t gonna do the same shit to them. They’re trans and have anxiety etc I’ve been there with them through all of it no matter the weather in my brain.
I love your determination to be there for you kid, and how hard you work to be a good parent. You are such a loyal, wise, and loving parent!
I respect that so much ❤️🔥
My exes mom destroyed our relationship with this. She passed away a couple years later and he is now completely alone. She alienated him from everyone including his siblings. Nasty woman.
This! Here in Italy thr mamma's boy ends up alone. Like your mom is going to die and then what?
@@tastegeorgia674these types of mother’s never think about the damage they are doing. It’s only about what they want and the son is just collateral damage
Something really bothering me about this conversation is that, like you said, it kinda ignores how bad girl dads, but also erases the fact this dynamic can happen between same gender parent and children. More accurately, in my case, same asab because i grew up to be a guy lmao. In my case Mother/raised-to-be-daughter
But my mom and I had a version of this dynamic that im not sure ive seen talked about, despite the fact i know many other people who share this trauma. From a young age, i was set up to fill the role of my dad when he couldnt be around. It began with adultification and parentification (expecting me to be her emotional punching bag and to raise my younger siblings), as well as emotional and physical abuse. but after he died...thats when the emotional incest started. I quickly slotted into the role of "replacement dad" but was expected to perform as a girl. In fact when i started dressing more masc presenting, my mom hated it. She was obsssessed with my "beauty".
I wont go into details, but long story short she was NOT happy when i came out (either time, first as a lesbian at 15 and then as trans at 19) and when i finally got help from friends to move out she said to my face that i was a traitor. That having me felt like having a partner again, how could i abandon her and our family.
And it was like...if i didnt leave i would have died. She refused to let me transition or have any autonomy. I had to leave.
Eventually when my younger sister got into her teens, she did the same thing to her. Not exactly the same, cause my sis was the youngest and uh..shows it. But more like..expected her to be her best and only friend (which she also did to me). Suffice to say, ive been helping my sister get out of there and helped her realize the abuse she experienced was something we shared, and wasnt inherent to her as a person.
But the gender dynamics between kids who are raised to be the same gender as their parent really is quite different from cis boymoms and girldads, and ignoring that will only lead to more people dismissing their trauma (past or current) and not seek help, and i think thats devestating. My friends helped me realize what was happening, but also seeing the domestic cycle of abuse chart AND finding the entry about emotional incest on the RAINE website.
Idk if i would have ever broken away to live a much happier life if i hadnt had people pull me out and support me, and had been a big computer nerd in the 2000s as a kid and knew how to navigate websites.
But..yeah. if anyone experienced somwthing similar to me, you are not alone and this doesnt just happen to different gender parent and child relationships. It happened to us too.
Edit: i wanted to add, bc some comme ts reminded me, that ny mom prioritized me and my sister and neglected my brothers. She loudly talked about how she hated men and stuff, and never like..taught my brothers anything. They now dont know how to be self-sufficient, hate women, and feel conpletely alone. She just doesnt care whay happens to her boys, and she taught her "girls" to never trust love because there was always another dangerous side to it (similar to her love). I will say she did denegrate my and my sister's abilities in order to make us feel incapable of living without her, telling us that NO ONE will EVER love us as much as she does. Well, if this is her love...i didnt want it.
This happened to me!! It made me really question my relationship with my femininity and basically although I'm not trans like you, I came to terms and realized "being a woman is great when you don't have a bunch of women telling you you're bad at it!"
Best wishes! My mom gave me a very weird view of my body I've been working through.
A lot of this applies to me and I absolutely feel the frustration of "not being allowed" to advocate for myself and learning that my needs would not be met and when I needed help or support I would not get it. Consequently as an adult there are still so many things I don't know how to do, or even how to ask for help with, and inability to set healthy boundaries without feeling like I will immediately be hated for it. Advocating for myself, such as at the doctors in particular, brings me to tears so quickly. I often end up feeling bullied by or not listened to by health professionals.
Man, your statements on parents using their kids to heal themselves really hit home to me. I’m AFAB non-binary and my mother used to lean heavily on me and my brother to deal with her emotional issues and baggage. We were heavily parentified and luckily, I got out. My brother didn’t and now he’s 36 and living at home basically as a second husband to our mom. I swore when I became a mom that I’d never make my emotions and my issues my kids problem. I’ve done a lot of work trying to heal it.
I feel very seen by your video and I know you didn’t think a lot of this needed to be said but as someone who was parentified and still struggles with putting others ahead of myself as a result, thank you for saying it.
I feel like some of this very weird stuff comes out of a toxic interpretation of some fairly real phenomena. There is a deep trust and dependency between an infant (and I'm talking "4th trimester" very young baby) and their primary caregiver. Throw some oxytocin in there if you've given birth to said infant, add some more if you are trying to breastfeed; and it's pretty intense. It can feel like they are everything to one another - and the level of caregiving required in those early weeks does take over one's life if there are reasonable maternity leave options.
But, it comes out of the baby literally relying on that caregiver for their survival. I remember being able to calm my infant daughter with my voice when she was being held by someone else (this worked very briefly - like most other parenting techniques :P). There's a power there and if a parent isn't supported emotionally in other ways by other people in their lives, I could see it being a hard to manage that power properly. No one loves you like that baby did then. No one needs you like that baby did then. The point is to move past that though.
And that trust and devotion isn't something the baby has knowledgeably chosen, it's a survival requirement, and it sure as hell isn't romantic love and should not be mistaken for it.
yeah ok but baby girls aren't any more independent than baby boys, so why are those moms so crazy about their sons?
@@dickottel Just a guess but it could be connected to the way we are messed up about relationships between men and women in general. The whole "can they just be friends" stuff or the way people declare boy and girl toddlers to be "boyfriend and girlfriend" when they play together.
Mickey points out that there is a similar toxic trend in father/daughter relationships so it could be connected to that weird dynamic we've established that seems to make all relationships between people of apparent opposite sex somehow romantic or sexual.
I mean, it's a mess.
as a boy mum I find this deeply disturbing. Love my boy's and I'm good with them moving on with their lives.
Same!
It's cringe to identify as a boy mom.
I’m glad you’re addressing this because I recognised the EI aspect of the trend, both because I’m a psychology student and also because I was a victim of it as a child. It’s extremely unhealthy and has long lasting negative impacts for us as adults. I’ve been through repeated abusive relationships and it’s taken years to undo the patterns I’ve learned from the toxic dynamic I grew up in.
my mom was like this. but with me as the oldest child, she said it was my purpose in life to serve her, be there for her, be her "everything" and not have a life outside of her.
she forced me to mother my siblings and work from the time i was 12 to pay her bills.
she told me over and over that i'd just "ruin my life" if i left her
i left as soon as i could and she was so angry at me, she would only speak to me in anger for several years. i was angry too. she stole my childhood.
eventually things leveled out and i now have a healthy relationship with my mom.
i try very hard not to put things on my children like that. i feel so guilty that my older boys had to jump in and help take care of me and their siblings for a short time when i was recovering from something and their father would not help. even though that was years ago that guilt remains. (those boys are now 18 and 17 for reference)
motherhood became my entire identity when the kids were young, and the kids became my "world" but i never tried to put myself as their whole world as i knew that could not and would not be healthy.
i definitely wasn’t a boymom victim because i was raised female, but everything you said about the issues that stem from the whole thing about “you having your own needs is abandoning me” really ring true. the feeling like your needs will never get met in a relationship, the resentment that builds from that, the lying that comes from the resentment… that was part of what led to the downfall of my only relationship so far. it’s been a persistent theme in my relationships in general, but was the most extreme with my ex due to the intensity and closeness. huh.
On my wedding day, my husbands mum said to my mum that she was 'heartbroken' and that she was losing her son.
I have to admit it hurt hearing that.
I especially feel bad for Anna’s trans daughter because that little girl could see how mom treats the youngest son and think to herself, would my mom love me more if I lived out my life as my assigned gender at birth? 😢
When a dad wants to beat up a daughter's BF for no actual reason (such as a rule breaking or being clearly abusive to the daughter), it seems like jealousy, like beating up the rival guy to the woman you like. Which is kinda incestuous.
I find a good answer to ‘I’ll marry you when I grow up’ is, ‘You don’t need to. You marry someone to make them family, and we’re family already.’
As someone else mentioned, society itself is far from helpful when it comes to establishing a healthy relationship between son and mother. The pressure to be laser-focused on the child/ren, the "no woman can ever be your first love like mom was" messaging, etc. - it poisons the mind and spirit. You have to push back, hard, if you want to have a healthy relationship with your kids in a world that seems to only want to reward people's worst behaviors.
This is a sick society we live in.
Thank you for touching on this subject!! Emotional incest being an erosion of appropriate parent/child boundaries is an absolutely perfect way to word it.
My parents barely acknowledge my past and I know if I ever brought up the words “emotional incest” they’d reject the idea it ever happened, even though both of them were superrr guilty of it for way too long. I’m glad to be an adult and not a parent anymore to my siblings and parents lmao adulthood has been challenging but super freeing! I will be using your description of it if I ever need to bring it up to them again in the future 😅🫣
This happened with me and my mother (I’m her only child, a daughter). I’ve been married more than 10 years and she is still bitter about the fact that I “abandoned” her (seriously, she still cries says things like, “you just left me!” sometimes). I had been expected to take care of her emotionally and sometimes physically from a very young girl age. She tried to break up my husband and I when we started dating seriously… I have 3 boys and I am determined to make sure I don’t repeat the cycle with any of them.
I love how you say “and” not “but.” It’s something I do with my daily conversations, especially with my son. “I love you and I need 10 minutes of quiet time alone.” The word “but” implies I don’t mean anything I said before that word.
Your little passage about the "golden child" thing really hit home. I feel exactly like this, and it's led me to get some pretty bad self-esteem at one point. I'm working on it, slowly, but I really hope it isn't affecting my younger sibling negatively. I've noticed how she gets into arguments with my parents and always mentions how I'm the top child, and it makes me pretty uncomfortable to see her devalidate herself. Hopefully things can get better, and I won't get into any detail as this is pretty personal, but nonetheless, love the vid, keep doing those ❤
My son is 19, and his dad died when he was 7, and I've never had family helping raise him. It is hard to do! Glad I've been a child & adolescent therapist for 20+ years because it helped me stay on-track when i was exhausted. I still try to stick to my core values of helping him be him. Now i can take my (valid) anxieties and give him information about why im worried (after asking!), and then i tell him "now you decide what to do." It is a joy when he legit comes to me with questions as he transitions out of school-age.
30:25 Do a video about girl dads and virginity!
Oh yes pls
Yeah, yikes. It’s giving “I own my daughter’s body”
YES. That is exactly what I thought of when she started explaining what emotion incest is.
Nice video :)
My daughter is now asking me a lot about marriage. She has a developmental disability and I’m trying to figure out how to help her feel safe but also prepare her for encountering predators/people who don’t have her best interest in mind. Most of my efforts until now have been around the importance of people listening to her and her feelings and constantly reinforceing that she should not be forced to do anything.
There are a growing number of disability and self-advocate groups who are creating resources on love, sex and safety in Easy Read/plain language formats for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. You may need to look for groups outside of the United States for these, but they're very helpful.
Really appreciate you being so open and real with her and respecting her wants for the future!
I absolutely love how you say "and also" instead of "but" in some phrases, I'll aply it to my life imediately!
This is the mom version of “dad meeting his teenage daughter’s new boyfriend with a shotgun in his lap” and I hate it
I HIGHLY dislike the normalized sexism going into the these types of indentities.
The obsession with gender is fucking creepy even without the incest.