FYI- There is no known formulation of AA8800 as it is actually AA8000 and within that scope of formulation the various manufacturers will custom blend to things like 8177, 8176, 8030 and so on but they are all within the AA8000 spectrum. Another tidbit is that the terminal lugs of AL are usually in the AA6000 formulation. Another tidbit, AA1350 is what was primarily used up until the mid 70's when it changed over to AA8000 as only AA8000 can enter into a building or structure. Great VID as always Dustin..Keep up the great work.
Woops! I've seen it called 8800 and 8000 so I figured 8000 was the series and 8800 was within that series. I'll pin this to the top, thanks for correcting me, as always =)
No correction my friend...if someone actually made an 8800 formulation then you would be Right On...But sadly that nomenclature isn't in the offerings so easier to just mention in the series since the NEC in Section 310.106(B) only references AA-8000 series it keeps it generic. So you are not wrong just ahead of your time....:)
@@MasterTheNEC buddy I'll take corrections ANY day of the week. It's just more education, means I learned something. That's really why I keep you around you know...you're smarter than me and I hope to gain some knowledge by osmosis lol
Thats why we got old guys like you Paul that were around in the 70s and 80s applying this stuff while me and Dustin were still swimming in our dads sack 😜 Lmao. My dad does exactly that too dustin. He takes the top off and puts the whole wire in the bottle. Our company is based out of Orlando. But that grey greasy crap takes forever to get off your clothes and your hands at the end of the day. Its always nice to see people apply it properly even though it takes longer.
Inspectors are morons with government authority who know just enough to be a dick but have zero idea why the code says what it does. Much less when they are wrong as fuck about what they spew
It boils down to what the UL listing says, what code says, and above all what the autority having jurisdiction says. It does not hurt to use it and it is cheap insurance. Also, go into any electric supply and ask for 12ga aluminum wire. When they stop laughing they will tell you that is not a thing since the 70's. Anti oxidation compound is a good idea on copper too when it is outside. Remember the NEC is bare minimum. You can actually do it better than code.
Great comment!! I just put some Noalox on some copper conductors on an outdoor service entrance. There was some white and green buildup at the terminations. I replaced the panel and conductors. I always go above and beyond so I feel good about it before walking away.
Copper Oxide (unlike aluminum oxide) is actually a very good conductor. You should never put anti-oxidation compound on copper as no-alox has a higher resistance than copper oxide.
I always use it in our plant. We use copper wire up to 750 and most go into an aluminum lug. If you don't use noalox there will be a nice green ball in a few months.
I leased an industrial building about 40 years ago that had infernal aluminum wiring in it. Every 6 months I’d go through the entire building, pull panel faces off and tighten the lugs. Many screws would give a little. If I didn’t do this within a year a lead would burn up. The landlord sold the building out from under us to a competitor even though we wanted to buy it. We were out of contract and we’re month to month so the A hole could do that. The new owner said “It’s not personal, it’s just business”. We ended up finding a better building in a better town. We later heard the landlord got taken to the cleaners by his wife. The new building owner? He had a major fire because of a panel going up. He actually called me and asked me why I didn’t mention the aluminum wiring. I said “We’re not friends and it’s not my problem”. A year later he was out of business, just too much to recupe. Couldn’t happen to nicer guys lol.
Not to say I blame you or anything but do you think you would feel responsible if someone unrelated to the original beef was killed? Like a new employee or something like that? Because you had knowledge of a problem you knew at some point could in theory be dangerous? Again not trying to blame you and I understand your sentiment of how that dude fucked you
@@awesomezaka Not in the least. His electrician that he had to hire to connect his equipment absolutely knew and should have and probably did tell the new owner but it probably went in one ear and out the other. And I seriously don’t think anyone in my situation was actually thinking about warning someone wiring when my biggest concern at the moment was finding a new facility and logistics for moving an entire shop. At that point it’s focus on future no looking back.
@@SkypowerwithKarl This is similar to experiences I have had as well. People complain of the price. Then I show them what their cheap or unlicensed electrical serviceman did. And why I have extra work to fix their mess.
In Norway there is a requirement to use it on aluminum cables. But first you have to put a layer on the cable and brush, then you have to brush the cable while the agent is on. It's because if you brush and then add the agent, the cable has already started to oxidize. But nice video, but still going to use it✌️👌
Also, even though code doesn't usually require it, both the Aluminum Association (Al industry trade group) and at least one major aluminum wire manufacturer recommend it. The lack of a code requirement is not a recommendation against it!
@@charliesullivan6186 I agree! I often hear the "code doesn't require it" argument for why extra steps shouldn't be taken, but people seem to forget that code is simply the bare minimum standard legally required and is by no means the gold standard. Common sense still should be used to decide whether doing something is a good idea. Just because something is allowed under code doesn't mean it a good idea or that going above and beyond wouldn't be beneficial.
@@charliesullivan6186 For sure it is not a recommendation against it, but an argument against using Noalox, when not required, is to save money and time, for some it is a very good argument and it wins every time, others may prefer to walk the extra mile, your mileage may vary.
Wow!! That's sad. Luckily houses are selling like crazy right now so I'm sure there was another offer right around the corner. Too bad for the buyer who's home inspector steered them wrong.
Yeah I live in Maine and we have crazy humidity and condensation problems because of the fact that it gets freezing cold and warm over and over. You might not need it where you are, but here everything get this stuff or dielectric grease.
In Canada, the CEC still requires the use of "A joint compound, capable of penetrating the oxide film and preventing its reforming" on stranded aluminum terminations, unless the termination is marked for use without it. Sad but true.
Frank Pratt I wondered that,I helped my mentor do a service entrance and we used it at the meter box and again at the panel where the lines are fed in.
Frank Pratt, thanks for mentioning that. The specific code rule from the CEC is 12-118. As a (now retired after 31 yrs 🥴😉) Electrical Safety Officer (inspector) one question I always had to ask is, did you wire brush the strands prior to applying the joint compound... Always amazed me of the dazed looks I’d get (mostly from the younger journeymen) that had always been told to use it, where never taught & had no idea there was a ‘right’ way other than to just mash the end into the bottle. Had one guy tell me, he’d been taught, “the bigger the glob, the better the job!”
@@WyrGuy2 It's funny how most people never read the directions on stuff. My brother in law used a whole bottle of Liquid Plumr for the shower drain and couldn't get it unclogged. He then asked me to try again with another bottle, but the way he explained it didn't seem quite right to me, so I read the directions and did it that way. I used about half a bottle and it became unclogged soon after. He probably thought he loosened it up for me when he did it, but I honestly thing he just wasted the first bottle. I remember him having the same problem other times, but I seem to always be able to do it with just half a bottle.
Not just in electrical work, but in commercial facilities maintenance and automotive work, I've always used copper based anti seize compound on everything. It is much appreciated weather it's me or another guy who has to take that bolt out in the future.
Have been an electrician for more than 42 years. I put it on with a small brush so I can control it so it's not in your terms glute on or globbed on. I've seen too many aluminum conductors that you could not remove from the set screws because the previous electrician did not use this compound and it led to corrosion.
Thanks for the facts, I been in Local #26 since 1999!!What he said was largest amount of nonsense I've ever heard. I have went trough homes in Woodbridge VA that had aluminum 14/2AWG branch-lines & had to Noalox all the outlets & switches with(the grease)We use large aluminum feeders at various commercial data centers these days & have to grease every termination!!
As a HVAC Tech I wish I could show you all the burned up disconnects I deal with. They would have been prevented if anti ox had been used. There are no issues with boxes with coated wires. Everyone keeps coming up with excuses not to use this product, it's cheap and easy to use and it can prevent your house from burning down. I am aware that in most cases the lugs may not be tight. The use of anti ox keeps that loose connection safe. Anti ox should always be used on aluminum wire when high amp devices such as heat strips are used. I saw about 10 of these in 2019 and one box mounted to a 2x4 actually caught the 2x4 on fire. The homeowner was lucky it went out. Again it's cheap it's easy - Don't be a fool - use anti ox on all aluminum wire. Always.
People can do what they want. Ive been in the trade for over 20 years and I will continue to use it. Ive done everything from residential to substation rebuilds and new construction. Every industrial and T & D job I've been on its always spec'd noalox or penetrox.
Been using it for years. I put in the same class as copper paste, even though it's different. With either it improves skin effect thus current handling capacity.
As soon as a search a electrical question on youtube, my next step is to see if one your your video's pop up. I like the way you explain all this stuff.
We use it on the lugs of connectors to keep them from galling up. It's easier getting a lug broke loose when nolox has been used rather than a bare aluminum lug. Great information you are sharing.
That’s why you have to use wire nuts or lugs rated for both copper aluminium . If you are making copper to aluminum joints in small awg there is special wire nuts for that… anti ox … is just anti ox not to prevent heat difference built up from the two different metals
In the UK I'd say 95% of our wiring is copper, when I worked on bridges and structures we filled the junction boxes with a product called 'magic gel' like a potting compound but removable.
"Penetrox A" compound is mentioned by name in "Reducing the Fire Hazard in Aluminum-Wired Homes", (Dr. Jesse Aronstein, 2000) as a recommended anti-oxidant product. He states the following on page 4 of the report: * Note: If the connector is pre-filled with inhibitor compound, use the same compound for protecting the abraded wire. It is preferable to use a corrosion inhibitor compound that does not burn freely. Burndy Penetrox "A" was the only one originally found by the author to be noncombustible, but recent information indicates that the formulation may have been changed. Corrosion inhibitors for aluminum wire and cable connections are known by different names, such as "oxide inhibitor", "connector aid", and "joint compound." They are generally a greasy substance. Some are simply petroleum jelly (Vaseline), some have various added ingredients. Among the electrical inhibitor compounds available, try to find one that does not flame readily. This can be tested by placing a small "glob" of the compound on the end of a piece of wire and trying to ignite it with a match. If possible (depends on availability), avoid the use of any compound that ignites readily and flames vigorously (like a match).
Here in CALIFORNIA if you don't have that shit on major cables, you won't get passed on inspection. Needed or not, it comes down to the dude who says it's needed or not. The authority having jurisdiction.
I'm sure its not just in Cali that this is the case. I did mention this twice later on in the video, not sure if you saw the whole thing. On that note there are multiple different "dudes" who could say it's needed or not. The manufacturer of the equipment dude, the inspecting dude, the wire manufacturing dude, or the weather dude.
@@lloydmills9619 Want to bet, I was required to put a disconnect in for a dryer outlet in Aspen Co because the inspector was worried someone reaching over to unplug the dryer could get shocked! Custom built house customer was pissed to find an AC disconnect in his laundry closet. The other inspectors were just wishing the old fart would retire
Lloyd Mills Interpretation of NEC is clearly defined in the NEC that it's the AHJ who decides what the code means. Doesn't make them any less retarded, just gives them a license to be an ignoramus with hall monitor syndrome.
@@bigunone the danger is present, and certainly using the cord and plug as a disconnecting means at that voltage and current is not as safe as providing and utilizing a safety switch to disconnect the circuit. The problem you're having is that in least this example, it's not normally required, and the vast majority of installers don't find value in the additional safety a disconnect would afford. In my line of work, we have installed high-current 208V and 480V receptacles in DOE national laboratories where the AHJ has insisted on a separate disconnect ahead of the receptacle.
I was taught to use emery cloth with noalox on it so that the abrasive removed the oxide layer and the dope prevents instant formation of the oxide. Tighten aluminum down, wait a few minutes tighten it again. Wriggle the wires and tighten once more. Give aluminum time to spread.
We have been doing lots of work down here in Ft. Myers, FL and hurricane Ian caused lots of damage and going through to all these buildings really opened my eyes to just how corrosive the conditions are down here.
I disagree about its being necessary. I have inspected hundreds of sites and seen a boatload of aluminum conductors in terminals that are quietly corroding away and dropping white powder all over. Just do it.
@@themtb2003 it's been 40 years since this alleged corrosion proof aluminum hit the market. the 40 year old stuff that's been properly treated is still okay. the newer stuff that a jackleg didn't treat is rotten.
@@kenbrown2808 "it doesnt work" is your excuse? Based off good ole' fashion experience... to heck with Science, right? I BET you, youre one of those "I dont need to wear a mask" folk
@@themtb2003 so what you're saying is that next time I have to try to break free a ten year old lug that's turned into white fluffies, I should tell it that it's doing it all wrong, because science? science is a process of theroem, experiment, result. and the result is that unprotected aluminum STILL rots. experience is observation, and observation says, an aluminum conductor that has had deox applied freely - which means coating the conductor - doesn't rot, while aluminum conductor that hasn't, rots. so yes, I apply deox freely, and wipe away the excess, and then coat all the exposed busbars in outdoor equipment with Lectra-shield; just like I put on my mask over both my nose and my mouth, before I get out of my car and leave it on until I'm back in my car. and after I've coughed into my elbow, I DON'T RUB ELBOWS TO GREET PEOPLE.
@@themtb2003 well considering science doesn't show a surgical mask helps prevent a virus I'd say you are the type of triggered individual that mistakes your lack of something as knowledge of said something.
I've been making up Alu connections for years. And yes I have a small SS brush in my termination tools I use on each wire, coating them with anti-ox per instructions. I use Penn-Union gel (CUALGEL) which is a lot less messy than the ugly gray goop.
Most union electricians are taught that aluminum oxidizes when exposed to air in minutes and that aluminum oxide is an insulator. So we clean it and coat it immediately. We also no longer use mechanical connections for aluminum. Haven't in decades. All aluminum connections are done with hydraulic crimp lugs. You see aluminum flows under pressure so no matter how tight you make a mechanical connection it will eventually loosen and overheat.
I deal with a lot of older manufactured homes so for drill I do the following: I use WAGO levered connections. I make sure that the wire, aluminum and copper connections, are clean. Then I make the connections and then apply cual-gel around the openings of the wago, including the little hole for testing. No air can get in. What do you think about this?
I believe the Wago connectors require the use of their anti corrosion compound when used with aluminium wiring. So while another compound would most likely work, I'd personally use their compound just to be 100% code compliant. That way if anything ever goes wrong there's no question about whether you are at fault for not using the proper compound.
@@averyalexander2303 Thank you for your reply. The guy at Platt said this was the same as noalox, so that is interesting. I shall investigate and you are right, anti-corrosion is what I was after.
In Canada, you need it in order to comply with the CEC code. Probably because most homes that have aluminum wires were built back in the 70's, and don't use any fancy new alloys. The only two cases I've ever worked with aluminum have been old, pre-existing aluminum, and new service drops, because nobody likes to wire buildings with aluminum because of it's infamy for burning houses down due to improper installation, but service drops are big fat expensive 4 ought conductors(mostly I think it's just because the electricians prefer to wrangle the aluminum vs copper when the wires get that thick, and the extra cost of copper is just a talking point when they're presenting the quote..)....
As an electrician who does nothing but service repairs in Houston for last 15 years I can’t overstate how important noalox is on main AL service feeds!. Houses that range from 30 years old to 3 years old I’ve seen countless main lugs seize and even meter jaws burn out from oxidation. Obviously humidity here is a higher issue and outdoor panels take a heat beating. For something so minimal in cost why wouldn’t you do it?! Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Been using it for decades but do simply apply a thin layer only on the connection area as well as the end. I also always remove the bolts and throw a little on the threads before putting the connection together. Beyond that I never went crazy with it. No need beyond the basic.
We've actually used 'Dielectric Grease' on all panel terminations including the bus when exposed to salt air on the water. I think its a much better option for both Al and Cu.
Coming from the rustbelt of America, and wiring on cars/trucks etc. Having seen plenty of exterior wiring connections AC/DC use it everywhere it's suggested and anywhere Exterior
Houston electrician here: We use this stuff a lot for service connections, especially in garages and exterior panels. I know my ME is gonna say to use it no matter what, but would you say, if you can't identify the aluminum alloy, to default to using noalux as a precaution?
People are mad when they're put on blast about doing something wrong FOR YEARS, thinking they were doing it right the whole time. Instead of accepting the facts and moving on, people argue. "Ahh but AHJ", "Ehh I've done it like this for years and...". Really letting people know that even us Electricians are hard to accept change. "I can run pipe all day dude"; move on and learn something else; VFDs controls,. understanding that you were doing something when maybe you didn't have to. Thanks dude⚡🤙
OK, so you just cited the reason I use it on all aluminum wire. I work mostly on the California coast and the coastal mountains and other mountain environments that get more rain and snow than other areas. I have done a lot of retrofitting on older houses with AL wire. So, I just use it all the time. I see the oxidation and I scrub it off before applying NoAlox all the way up to the insulation. I like the dip method of applying and if there is way too much I wipe it off to a thin coat.
I can't say much about using it on single stand aluminum wiring since we never used that in our plant. We use multi starnd copper wire up to 750mcm and most of our lugs are aluminum. Anytime you mix to metals like aluminum and copper it will oxidize like crazy if you don't use something like Noalox. I have seen copper wires with huge balls of green oxidation on them when some of the hard headed ones here didn't add noalox. A lot of our conductors are handling 200 to 800 amps so a little different from residential wiring.
I hear ya my friend. Unfortunately our (home inspectors) licensing body (Texas Real Estate Commission) states that we have to mark as deficient "the absence of anti-oxidants on aluminum conductor terminations" ☹ . Otherwise, we are in violation of our Standards of Practice and can be fined accordingly, if a complaint or issue were to arise. Kind of hamstrung 🤷♂
Are you union or non-union? I have worked both sides of the fence (non-union now). The only reason ask is you are so knowledgeable. I just wonder where you received your training. I love how you continually reference the NEC code book. You info has bailed me out a couple of times on the job. Your hands down one of the best channels on UA-cam.
Hi there, great videos! I'm currently studying Home Inspection, and they really push the anti-oxidant. I was reading up on the AA8000 series after watching this video. The last thing I want to do is recommend anti-oxidant on aluminum service entrance conductors if it is not required and the electrician purposely avoided using it. My question is, is it easy to identify this series of wiring? Or just go by the time the house was built? Also, from what I believe I understood, the alloy is available in sizes 8 AWG and larger. Is that correct? Thanks :D
I go a step further if it's a connection in a "wet location" and remove the screw and put a little on the threads so the next guy can get the screw out. I've seen a lot of old corroded screws and even stripped one once. Luckily that equipment was being replaced. Now when I see a corroded screw I reach for the impact. Works every time. Another big reason that I do it that some may not realize. If you put it in the threads and apply the same amount of torque your terminal connection is tighter. You reduce the friction within the threads and therefore the screw drives into the conductor tighter. Another probably well-known tip. I like to torque and retorque a few minutes later. Just like aluminum wheels the aluminum flows a little under pressure. Torque wrench usually grabs another 1/8-1/4 turn. Splitting hairs right? That's what electricians do.
i love noalox. i use it on copper and all service wires. even the breaker terminals. it makes heat rise non existent and keeps the terminals from oxidizing. kick ass.
I do it just because the code says to use it. When you have dissimilar metals like CU and AL . Unless you have connectors that are rated for that. Also my company wants us using that for AL connections.
I sometimes put no locks on the copper but I don’t use the black are used to Esco it’s a much better compound it makes a better connection even with high-voltage
Is it hurting anything by using it? And you are incorrect I have wire brushed my cables before I terminate them. I read it in the Burndy instructions for crimps I was doing years ago and have done it since. I use to do large commercial projects with up to12 sets of 750Al cables every term wire brushed.
What I always thought was weird was, so you had to goop noalux on the conductor inside the meter or panel but no one ever talked about or inspected the overhead service connection.. being that it's exposed to weather conditions (even though it's taped, it's not in an enclosure)...
@@kenbrown2808 Yes, certain connectors definitely come packed with deox but most parallel groove clamps do not. most residential services around here (PA.) have parallel groove clamps.
@@brandonneur yeah, my power company used those for about two years and they deoxed the wires when they installed them.then they went back to covered pregooped connections.
@@kenbrown2808 Most of the time around here the contractor makes the overhead connection. Unless a new triplex/quadplex is needed. I've never had an inspector look or ask about anti ox regarding the overhead connection is all.
@@brandonneur that's bizarre. Back in the dark ages the power company let the electrician make a temporary service connection, here, but even back then, they would cut that out and make the permanent connection.
I use it on anything bigger than 2/0 for heat conduction. Air is a highly effective heat insulator. I also like to use it on grub screws to prevent seizing. I do the dip- to get it inside the stranded but then wipe the outside with a cloth. I never have messy blobs.
I bought some 4-4-4-4-2 aluminium SEC, (for a new transfer switch and 200 amp panel box) where does the 4th conductor go or what does it connect to? First in the meter box then in the transfer switch, then last, into the panel box. I can figure out 2 hots, a common and the smaller ground, but that 4th conductor has me stumped.
Most people just watch the first few minutes of UA-cam videos. I can see a lot of young electricians are going to walk away from this video and say “ah, that grease is old school and I never have to use that!”
My inspector always looks for it so I always make sure it's present. Emery cloth is always next to the box. I don't throw it away until I get the sticker signed.
You are mixing two different processes together: Yes Galvanic corrosion is less of a problem now, however outdoors, especially seaside installs, still need Noalox and airtight encapsulation. Then there is the thin 1.5-6 Nm oxide layer, which forms on all aluminium, even in complete dry conditions. This is the reason Aluminium looks un-oxidized but is responsible for increased resistance, so it might work fine for a bedside lamp, but are you doing serious current, this is something that needs to be taken seriously. You need special crimp connections and lugs, which also come with a Noalox like compound smeared on the inside.
I came up with a big company that didn't cut corners, at least the traveling new construction guys. We always brushed our aluminum terminations. I know it is cliche that men don't read instructions and a lot electricians don't but I always read the instructions for anything I use. If you use noalox do it right, if not I am cool with that to if it isn't necessary.
It is a dielectric agent, if you put it between conductors in a termination it inhibits conductivity to some degree adding resistance and heat to the termination point???
It does not inhibit conductivity. Any place that is tightened correctly is pushing the material out of the contact location and keeping the damp air out.
As a electrician I read and was always taught to use it and It’s in the book. So it’s like I read the blueprint for a recept and they say no it’s wrong but the print says in this location and all of sudden it’s incorrect. Yeah dude I just go by the print haha
You won't pass inspection here without it (Tampa area)....Did I hear you say something like 'it doesn't oxidize and corrode as bad as it used to' ? So, it does indeed still oxidize and corrode, eh? But 'not like it used to', ??
I always use a wire brush and/or an emery cloth to clean the conductors whenever I'm called out to repair a service that has failed because the previous electrician didn't use de-ox - IF I can get the terminals loose and don't have to replace the whole mess. also, Noalox is a brand name, and it's probably the worst, most annoying de-ox there is. so yeah, if you're installing aluminum conductors anywhere but a desert, lubricate the threads of the terminal, and coat the entire exposed surface of the conductor with a good de-ox. it's cheap callback insurance. and if you're installing large copper outdoors, consider it, strongly.
I'm guilty of using the dip method for putting on Noalox, and sometimes I even sand it with an emery cloth after applying it. I've also thought about applying it to each stand, but realized a problem with that. If I splay out the strands, that causes them to work harden and become brittle. Given the skin effect, I feel confident about treating just the surface, acknowledging I need to do it per instructions. I work in a coastal city, so the Noalox is more than just belt and suspenders. Bottom line, though: When in doubt, do it the right way.
light pole wiring connections, where rain or sprinklers make contact with wiring,, or accent lighting fed out of a bell box on lawns, after sprinklers or rain hits put on cover bolts to remove especially if cover and gasket not put on correct and water builds up and no weep hole in the bell box......or parking lot lights in a hand hole that water drains into connections in water whether Florida, Ohio or Vermont it water will/can get to it put some on.....the maintenance person or homeowner will thank you....most contractors/wiremen don't want to spend the money or time. Not everyone has the right answer including me just telling what I've run into and what works for me.....it's for dissimilar metals...I even use on the screw lockdown on my flagpole....for us old guys we need all the help we can find opening covers or disconnection of wiring on terminal blocks or wiring splice nuts....Ideal wire nuts was my choice,, cheapy one's plastic cap comes off but spring connection still on wires spliced...now where did I put my cutters?????
So, the whole premise here is to read the 3 simple instructions on the container. 1) clean the conductor off with a wire brush or emory cloth 2) apply noalox freely to both the conductor and the connector 3) assemble joint and wipe off the excess
I always use it outdoors on aluminum. I didnt know u didnt have to. So i learned somethin myself today. I know people that use it on copper outside too.
Wondering about how AL connections come loose due to vibration, etc. Need to be retightened. My 22 year old AL wires are perfect with NOALOX on the connections.
Too bad it's a code requirement in Canada: 12-118(2): "A joint compound, capable of penetrating the oxide film and preventing its reforming, shall be used for terminating or splicing all sizes of stranded aluminum conductors, unless the termination or splice is marked for use without compound."
Using copper cable in residential or commercial structures is just stupid. The NEC doesn't take into account that structures can last over 100 years and it is likely that an untrained person will attach copper directly to aluminum. Many of the fires that occured in aluminum wired houses happened because homeowners replaced switches and outlets with copper units. Aluminum should only be used in industrial settings or transmission lines.
Unfortunately, a most inspectors are old guys who think you need Nolox on anything aluminum, so we always use it, because it saves you having to undo your work to add it later. Also, I can appreciate what you're saying about manufacturer's directions; but no one cleans the end of the wire with a wire brush because that would be stupid. You just stripped the insulation off of the end of a brand new wire. Why would you clean it?
When we sold our house the only correction needed was on the breaker box. The two main cables coming into the house to the top of the box had no protection on it. It passed the original inspection in 06 but not ‘19. The electrician has been in the business for 40 years and never had a call for this. He said it’s because of dissimilar metals but there was zero corrosion or dust. Cost me $250 for 5 minutes of his time.
I will not use aluminum wire, had some quotes on some jobs and they guy gave my a quote for aluminum wire, I told he no and he got mad at me, it was my job site and my call, I just dont like it at all.
I have a question if you live in New York City and you're doing aluminum to copper or below sea level shouldn't you be using it anyway because it oxidized
FYI- There is no known formulation of AA8800 as it is actually AA8000 and within that scope of formulation the various manufacturers will custom blend to things like 8177, 8176, 8030 and so on but they are all within the AA8000 spectrum. Another tidbit is that the terminal lugs of AL are usually in the AA6000 formulation. Another tidbit, AA1350 is what was primarily used up until the mid 70's when it changed over to AA8000 as only AA8000 can enter into a building or structure. Great VID as always Dustin..Keep up the great work.
Woops! I've seen it called 8800 and 8000 so I figured 8000 was the series and 8800 was within that series. I'll pin this to the top, thanks for correcting me, as always =)
No correction my friend...if someone actually made an 8800 formulation then you would be Right On...But sadly that nomenclature isn't in the offerings so easier to just mention in the series since the NEC in Section 310.106(B) only references AA-8000 series it keeps it generic. So you are not wrong just ahead of your time....:)
@@MasterTheNEC buddy I'll take corrections ANY day of the week. It's just more education, means I learned something. That's really why I keep you around you know...you're smarter than me and I hope to gain some knowledge by osmosis lol
Thats why we got old guys like you Paul that were around in the 70s and 80s applying this stuff while me and Dustin were still swimming in our dads sack 😜 Lmao. My dad does exactly that too dustin. He takes the top off and puts the whole wire in the bottle. Our company is based out of Orlando. But that grey greasy crap takes forever to get off your clothes and your hands at the end of the day. Its always nice to see people apply it properly even though it takes longer.
It's funny how I heard Paul's voice as I was reading his comments.
Cool, Tell the inspectors that.
Same thing I was thinking LOL
😂
Don't mess with my Jurisdiction
Yep, red tag city
Inspectors are morons with government authority who know just enough to be a dick but have zero idea why the code says what it does. Much less when they are wrong as fuck about what they spew
Dude "That'll get a bunch of people pissed off" made my day.
Pissed off?... maybe. Dead in an electrical fire?... Most likely.
@@TrinitronX mainly the guys who cave to come back in 10 years and replace equipment.
Also works as an anti seize compound which is important with AL conductors
It boils down to what the UL listing says, what code says, and above all what the autority having jurisdiction says. It does not hurt to use it and it is cheap insurance. Also, go into any electric supply and ask for 12ga aluminum wire. When they stop laughing they will tell you that is not a thing since the 70's. Anti oxidation compound is a good idea on copper too when it is outside.
Remember the NEC is bare minimum. You can actually do it better than code.
Great comment!! I just put some Noalox on some copper conductors on an outdoor service entrance. There was some white and green buildup at the terminations. I replaced the panel and conductors. I always go above and beyond so I feel good about it before walking away.
Copper Oxide (unlike aluminum oxide) is actually a very good conductor. You should never put anti-oxidation compound on copper as no-alox has a higher resistance than copper oxide.
@@the1da1nc its to keep electrolysis from eating away your wire.
I always use it in our plant. We use copper wire up to 750 and most go into an aluminum lug. If you don't use noalox there will be a nice green ball in a few months.
I leased an industrial building about 40 years ago that had infernal aluminum wiring in it. Every 6 months I’d go through the entire building, pull panel faces off and tighten the lugs. Many screws would give a little. If I didn’t do this within a year a lead would burn up. The landlord sold the building out from under us to a competitor even though we wanted to buy it. We were out of contract and we’re month to month so the A hole could do that. The new owner said “It’s not personal, it’s just business”. We ended up finding a better building in a better town. We later heard the landlord got taken to the cleaners by his wife. The new building owner? He had a major fire because of a panel going up. He actually called me and asked me why I didn’t mention the aluminum wiring. I said “We’re not friends and it’s not my problem”. A year later he was out of business, just too much to recupe. Couldn’t happen to nicer guys lol.
Not to say I blame you or anything but do you think you would feel responsible if someone unrelated to the original beef was killed? Like a new employee or something like that? Because you had knowledge of a problem you knew at some point could in theory be dangerous? Again not trying to blame you and I understand your sentiment of how that dude fucked you
@@awesomezaka
Not in the least. His electrician that he had to hire to connect his equipment absolutely knew and should have and probably did tell the new owner but it probably went in one ear and out the other. And I seriously don’t think anyone in my situation was actually thinking about warning someone wiring when my biggest concern at the moment was finding a new facility and logistics for moving an entire shop. At that point it’s focus on future no looking back.
@@SkypowerwithKarl makes sense
@@awesomezaka any industrial building should have proper maintenance staff who should find those things out on their own
@@SkypowerwithKarl This is similar to experiences I have had as well. People complain of the price. Then I show them what their cheap or unlicensed electrical serviceman did. And why I have extra work to fix their mess.
In Norway there is a requirement to use it on aluminum cables. But first you have to put a layer on the cable and brush, then you have to brush the cable while the agent is on. It's because if you brush and then add the agent, the cable has already started to oxidize. But nice video, but still going to use it✌️👌
Good point, I remember seeing that explanation somewhere.
That's important, aluminum oxidizes Immediately(Instantly) after sanding/brushing it needs to be coated While the cleaning process is being performed
Noalox is cheaper than a house. Why worry about "do I need it"? When you can just use it and be done with it.
Also, even though code doesn't usually require it, both the Aluminum Association (Al industry trade group) and at least one major aluminum wire manufacturer recommend it. The lack of a code requirement is not a recommendation against it!
@@charliesullivan6186 I agree! I often hear the "code doesn't require it" argument for why extra steps shouldn't be taken, but people seem to forget that code is simply the bare minimum standard legally required and is by no means the gold standard. Common sense still should be used to decide whether doing something is a good idea. Just because something is allowed under code doesn't mean it a good idea or that going above and beyond wouldn't be beneficial.
@@charliesullivan6186 For sure it is not a recommendation against it, but an argument against using Noalox, when not required, is to save money and time, for some it is a very good argument and it wins every time, others may prefer to walk the extra mile, your mileage may vary.
Trying to sell house, the know it all home inspector thought it was burnt wires that had to be replaced but it was just freeking noalox.
That's why all that Romex is color coded nowadays. It makes it easier for inspectors.
Wow!! That's sad. Luckily houses are selling like crazy right now so I'm sure there was another offer right around the corner. Too bad for the buyer who's home inspector steered them wrong.
Bwa, ha , hahaha. Gota love those home inspectors trying to find anything to justify their job.
four and a half years and i have NEVER terminated aluminum without this stuff
good man👍
I like a guy who pays attention to details
Yeah I live in Maine and we have crazy humidity and condensation problems because of the fact that it gets freezing cold and warm over and over. You might not need it where you are, but here everything get this stuff or dielectric grease.
same here on the coast of NC b/c of salt air
In Canada, the CEC still requires the use of "A joint compound, capable of penetrating the oxide film and preventing its reforming" on stranded aluminum terminations, unless the termination is marked for use without it. Sad but true.
Frank Pratt I wondered that,I helped my mentor do a service entrance and we used it at the meter box and again at the panel where the lines are fed in.
Frank Pratt, thanks for mentioning that. The specific code rule from the CEC is 12-118. As a (now retired after 31 yrs 🥴😉) Electrical Safety Officer (inspector) one question I always had to ask is, did you wire brush the strands prior to applying the joint compound... Always amazed me of the dazed looks I’d get (mostly from the younger journeymen) that had always been told to use it, where never taught & had no idea there was a ‘right’ way other than to just mash the end into the bottle. Had one guy tell me, he’d been taught, “the bigger the glob, the better the job!”
@@WyrGuy2 The wire brush question is one that I've been asked lots.
@@WyrGuy2 It's funny how most people never read the directions on stuff. My brother in law used a whole bottle of Liquid Plumr for the shower drain and couldn't get it unclogged. He then asked me to try again with another bottle, but the way he explained it didn't seem quite right to me, so I read the directions and did it that way. I used about half a bottle and it became unclogged soon after. He probably thought he loosened it up for me when he did it, but I honestly thing he just wasted the first bottle. I remember him having the same problem other times, but I seem to always be able to do it with just half a bottle.
Ah, de-ox✊😌
Putting it in the threads of your lugs a specially on temp power will make the life of the next guy better.
I thought I was only person in the world doing that. Im sure I would enjoy working behind you.
So true.
I do the same thing! I can’t tell you how many panels and conductors I’ve had to change out because I couldn’t get the lugs loose.
You are awesome
Not just in electrical work, but in commercial facilities maintenance and automotive work, I've always used copper based anti seize compound on everything. It is much appreciated weather it's me or another guy who has to take that bolt out in the future.
Have been an electrician for more than 42 years. I put it on with a small brush so I can control it so it's not in your terms glute on or globbed on. I've seen too many aluminum conductors that you could not remove from the set screws because the previous electrician did not use this compound and it led to corrosion.
Thanks for the facts,
I been in Local #26 since 1999!!What he said was largest amount of nonsense I've ever heard.
I have went trough homes in Woodbridge VA that had aluminum 14/2AWG branch-lines & had to Noalox all the outlets & switches with(the grease)We use large aluminum feeders at various commercial data centers these days & have to grease every termination!!
@@guyanacreations4073 so why he says nonsense then????
The only aluminum we used was for heavy gauge service wires.
I don't think anyone does use #10 for branch circuits these days. Mostly on A/C supply and ovens or stoves.
I just installed a new panel in my house yesterday and put Noalox on my 100 amp aluminum service
As a HVAC Tech I wish I could show you all the burned up disconnects I deal with. They would have been prevented if anti ox had been used. There are no issues with boxes with coated wires. Everyone keeps coming up with excuses not to use this product, it's cheap and easy to use and it can prevent your house from burning down. I am aware that in most cases the lugs may not be tight. The use of anti ox keeps that loose connection safe. Anti ox should always be used on aluminum wire when high amp devices such as heat strips are used. I saw about 10 of these in 2019 and one box mounted to a 2x4 actually caught the 2x4 on fire. The homeowner was lucky it went out. Again it's cheap it's easy - Don't be a fool - use anti ox on all aluminum wire. Always.
People can do what they want. Ive been in the trade for over 20 years and I will continue to use it. Ive done everything from residential to substation rebuilds and new construction. Every industrial and T & D job I've been on its always spec'd noalox or penetrox.
Been using it for years. I put in the same class as copper paste, even though it's different.
With either it improves skin effect thus current handling capacity.
As soon as a search a electrical question on youtube, my next step is to see if one your your video's pop up. I like the way you explain all this stuff.
We use it on the lugs of connectors to keep them from galling up. It's easier getting a lug broke loose when nolox has been used rather than a bare aluminum lug. Great information you are sharing.
no it doesnt. why did you not listen to what the man said?
@@themtb2003 I'm guessing it's because he's actually tried to loosen a lug that galled because some jackleg didn't use deox.
@@themtb2003 Re-listen to the video. Many of us have been doing this longer than you are old. We know it stops the corrosion and threads locking up.
Al Cu junctions still have differential heating and cooling rates, this will cause certain splices to loosen over time.
That's why I've always used it... because of lugs and splices that loosen over time.
That’s why you have to use wire nuts or lugs rated for both copper aluminium . If you are making copper to aluminum joints in small awg there is special wire nuts for that… anti ox … is just anti ox not to prevent heat difference built up from the two different metals
In the UK I'd say 95% of our wiring is copper, when I worked on bridges and structures we filled the junction boxes with a product called 'magic gel' like a potting compound but removable.
Unfortunately half of the inspectors don't understand enough about metallurgy to understand that the newer style conductors dont need it.
Ya you've got to do what you need to in order to pass, not denying that.
We use penatrox when we mix copper and aluminum.
"Penetrox A" compound is mentioned by name in "Reducing the Fire Hazard in Aluminum-Wired Homes", (Dr. Jesse Aronstein, 2000) as a recommended anti-oxidant product.
He states the following on page 4 of the report:
* Note: If the connector is pre-filled with inhibitor compound, use the same
compound for protecting the abraded wire. It is preferable to use a corrosion
inhibitor compound that does not burn freely. Burndy Penetrox "A" was the only
one originally found by the author to be noncombustible, but recent information
indicates that the formulation may have been changed. Corrosion inhibitors for
aluminum wire and cable connections are known by different names, such as "oxide
inhibitor", "connector aid", and "joint compound." They are generally a greasy
substance. Some are simply petroleum jelly (Vaseline), some have various added
ingredients. Among the electrical inhibitor compounds available, try to find
one that does not flame readily. This can be tested by placing a small "glob"
of the compound on the end of a piece of wire and trying to ignite it with a
match. If possible (depends on availability), avoid the use of any compound
that ignites readily and flames vigorously (like a match).
@@user-lp3cf5yn5b dude it’s probably the same thing but it’s all I’ve ever known. Gooey and gray in color.
Here in CALIFORNIA if you don't have that shit on major cables, you won't get passed on inspection. Needed or not, it comes down to the dude who says it's needed or not. The authority having jurisdiction.
I'm sure its not just in Cali that this is the case. I did mention this twice later on in the video, not sure if you saw the whole thing. On that note there are multiple different "dudes" who could say it's needed or not. The manufacturer of the equipment dude, the inspecting dude, the wire manufacturing dude, or the weather dude.
The AHJ only has authority to enforce adopted standards they can't just make shit up. Call him on it.
@@lloydmills9619 Want to bet, I was required to put a disconnect in for a dryer outlet in Aspen Co because the inspector was worried someone reaching over to unplug the dryer could get shocked! Custom built house customer was pissed to find an AC disconnect in his laundry closet. The other inspectors were just wishing the old fart would retire
Lloyd Mills Interpretation of NEC is clearly defined in the NEC that it's the AHJ who decides what the code means. Doesn't make them any less retarded, just gives them a license to be an ignoramus with hall monitor syndrome.
@@bigunone the danger is present, and certainly using the cord and plug as a disconnecting means at that voltage and current is not as safe as providing and utilizing a safety switch to disconnect the circuit. The problem you're having is that in least this example, it's not normally required, and the vast majority of installers don't find value in the additional safety a disconnect would afford. In my line of work, we have installed high-current 208V and 480V receptacles in DOE national laboratories where the AHJ has insisted on a separate disconnect ahead of the receptacle.
I was taught to use emery cloth with noalox on it so that the abrasive removed the oxide layer and the dope prevents instant formation of the oxide. Tighten aluminum down, wait a few minutes tighten it again. Wriggle the wires and tighten once more. Give aluminum time to spread.
We have been doing lots of work down here in Ft. Myers, FL and hurricane Ian caused lots of damage and going through to all these buildings really opened my eyes to just how corrosive the conditions are down here.
I disagree about its being necessary. I have inspected hundreds of sites and seen a boatload of aluminum conductors in terminals that are quietly corroding away and dropping white powder all over. Just do it.
THE MAN SAID that the wire make up has changed. YOYU likely were inspecting crap made back in the past.. WHY fight? oh, because youre an electrician.
@@themtb2003 it's been 40 years since this alleged corrosion proof aluminum hit the market. the 40 year old stuff that's been properly treated is still okay. the newer stuff that a jackleg didn't treat is rotten.
@@kenbrown2808 "it doesnt work" is your excuse? Based off good ole' fashion experience... to heck with Science, right? I BET you, youre one of those "I dont need to wear a mask" folk
@@themtb2003 so what you're saying is that next time I have to try to break free a ten year old lug that's turned into white fluffies, I should tell it that it's doing it all wrong, because science? science is a process of theroem, experiment, result. and the result is that unprotected aluminum STILL rots. experience is observation, and observation says, an aluminum conductor that has had deox applied freely - which means coating the conductor - doesn't rot, while aluminum conductor that hasn't, rots. so yes, I apply deox freely, and wipe away the excess, and then coat all the exposed busbars in outdoor equipment with Lectra-shield; just like I put on my mask over both my nose and my mouth, before I get out of my car and leave it on until I'm back in my car. and after I've coughed into my elbow, I DON'T RUB ELBOWS TO GREET PEOPLE.
@@themtb2003 well considering science doesn't show a surgical mask helps prevent a virus I'd say you are the type of triggered individual that mistakes your lack of something as knowledge of said something.
I've been making up Alu connections for years. And yes I have a small SS brush in my termination tools I use on each wire, coating them with anti-ox per instructions. I use Penn-Union gel (CUALGEL) which is a lot less messy than the ugly gray goop.
So it’s not flux, it’s not going to remove the oxide layer, it’s just going to act as a barrier to prevent it from forming?
Right
Most union electricians are taught that aluminum oxidizes when exposed to air in minutes and that aluminum oxide is an insulator. So we clean it and coat it immediately. We also no longer use mechanical connections for aluminum. Haven't in decades. All aluminum connections are done with hydraulic crimp lugs. You see aluminum flows under pressure so no matter how tight you make a mechanical connection it will eventually loosen and overheat.
I deal with a lot of older manufactured homes so for drill I do the following:
I use WAGO levered connections. I make sure that the wire, aluminum and copper connections, are clean. Then I make the connections and then apply cual-gel around the openings of the wago, including the little hole for testing. No air can get in.
What do you think about this?
I believe the Wago connectors require the use of their anti corrosion compound when used with aluminium wiring. So while another compound would most likely work, I'd personally use their compound just to be 100% code compliant. That way if anything ever goes wrong there's no question about whether you are at fault for not using the proper compound.
@@averyalexander2303 Thank you for your reply. The guy at Platt said this was the same as noalox, so that is interesting. I shall investigate and you are right, anti-corrosion is what I was after.
In Canada, you need it in order to comply with the CEC code. Probably because most homes that have aluminum wires were built back in the 70's, and don't use any fancy new alloys. The only two cases I've ever worked with aluminum have been old, pre-existing aluminum, and new service drops, because nobody likes to wire buildings with aluminum because of it's infamy for burning houses down due to improper installation, but service drops are big fat expensive 4 ought conductors(mostly I think it's just because the electricians prefer to wrangle the aluminum vs copper when the wires get that thick, and the extra cost of copper is just a talking point when they're presenting the quote..)....
Do you have a code reference for that?
@@jamessutton3572 That is always my question when somebody says "because code"
Personally, I’m going to keep using Noalox…
I like copper service entrance wire more than aluminum because it has less resistance.
As an electrician who does nothing but service repairs in Houston for last 15 years I can’t overstate how important noalox is on main AL service feeds!. Houses that range from 30 years old to 3 years old I’ve seen countless main lugs seize and even meter jaws burn out from oxidation. Obviously humidity here is a higher issue and outdoor panels take a heat beating.
For something so minimal in cost why wouldn’t you do it?! Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
You don't want to have this conversation with an inspector so just put it on.
Been using it for decades but do simply apply a thin layer only on the connection area as well as the end. I also always remove the bolts and throw a little on the threads before putting the connection together. Beyond that I never went crazy with it. No need beyond the basic.
We've actually used 'Dielectric Grease' on all panel terminations including the bus when exposed to salt air on the water. I think its a much better option for both Al and Cu.
Coming from the rustbelt of America, and wiring on cars/trucks etc. Having seen plenty of exterior wiring connections AC/DC use it everywhere it's suggested and anywhere Exterior
Houston electrician here:
We use this stuff a lot for service connections, especially in garages and exterior panels. I know my ME is gonna say to use it no matter what, but would you say, if you can't identify the aluminum alloy, to default to using noalux as a precaution?
It's good to err on the side of caution.
well said. do a video on the difference of ordering a 20a receptacle when you really want a spec grade receptacle
People are mad when they're put on blast about doing something wrong FOR YEARS, thinking they were doing it right the whole time. Instead of accepting the facts and moving on, people argue. "Ahh but AHJ", "Ehh I've done it like this for years and...". Really letting people know that even us Electricians are hard to accept change. "I can run pipe all day dude"; move on and learn something else; VFDs controls,. understanding that you were doing something when maybe you didn't have to. Thanks dude⚡🤙
OK, so you just cited the reason I use it on all aluminum wire. I work mostly on the California coast and the coastal mountains and other mountain environments that get more rain and snow than other areas. I have done a lot of retrofitting on older houses with AL wire. So, I just use it all the time. I see the oxidation and I scrub it off before applying NoAlox all the way up to the insulation. I like the dip method of applying and if there is way too much I wipe it off to a thin coat.
I can't say much about using it on single stand aluminum wiring since we never used that in our plant. We use multi starnd copper wire up to 750mcm and most of our lugs are aluminum. Anytime you mix to metals like aluminum and copper it will oxidize like crazy if you don't use something like Noalox. I have seen copper wires with huge balls of green oxidation on them when some of the hard headed ones here didn't add noalox. A lot of our conductors are handling 200 to 800 amps so a little different from residential wiring.
Rite onn man, .some people don't read directions . Thanks for explaining this
We're men. None of us read the damn directions lol
Directions what are those?
Directions is just a synonym for trash right?
So, how do I tell, just by looking at an aluminum conductor what the alloy is?
listed on the cable
I hear ya my friend. Unfortunately our (home inspectors) licensing body (Texas Real Estate Commission) states that we have to mark as deficient "the absence of anti-oxidants on aluminum conductor terminations" ☹ . Otherwise, we are in violation of our Standards of Practice and can be fined accordingly, if a complaint or issue were to arise. Kind of hamstrung 🤷♂
Are you union or non-union? I have worked both sides of the fence (non-union now). The only reason ask is you are so knowledgeable. I just wonder where you received your training. I love how you continually reference the NEC code book. You info has bailed me out a couple of times on the job. Your hands down one of the best channels on UA-cam.
Some just take their job seriously and try to learn as much and do the best they can
Hi there, great videos! I'm currently studying Home Inspection, and they really push the anti-oxidant. I was reading up on the AA8000 series after watching this video. The last thing I want to do is recommend anti-oxidant on aluminum service entrance conductors if it is not required and the electrician purposely avoided using it. My question is, is it easy to identify this series of wiring? Or just go by the time the house was built? Also, from what I believe I understood, the alloy is available in sizes 8 AWG and larger. Is that correct? Thanks :D
I live on an island. we use it on everything aluminum
I go a step further if it's a connection in a "wet location" and remove the screw and put a little on the threads so the next guy can get the screw out. I've seen a lot of old corroded screws and even stripped one once. Luckily that equipment was being replaced. Now when I see a corroded screw I reach for the impact. Works every time.
Another big reason that I do it that some may not realize. If you put it in the threads and apply the same amount of torque your terminal connection is tighter. You reduce the friction within the threads and therefore the screw drives into the conductor tighter. Another probably well-known tip. I like to torque and retorque a few minutes later. Just like aluminum wheels the aluminum flows a little under pressure. Torque wrench usually grabs another 1/8-1/4 turn.
Splitting hairs right? That's what electricians do.
Is there a goop that prevents AHJ? If not then I would use that stuff.
isin't dipping the wire considered applying it "Freely"?
i love noalox. i use it on copper and all service wires. even the breaker terminals. it makes heat rise non existent and keeps the terminals from oxidizing. kick ass.
I hate noalox - but I understand noalox is a brand name. most other brands of deox are better.
@@kenbrown2808 yup
Great post! Thank you. Super informative info as always.
Great videos! Keep them coming,easy to understand real world format.
I do it just because the code says to use it. When you have dissimilar metals like CU and AL . Unless you have connectors that are rated for that. Also my company wants us using that for AL connections.
Why would use a connector not rated for what you are using. That would be against code.
And the NEC does not say to use it. If so give the code reference
I sometimes put no locks on the copper but I don’t use the black are used to Esco it’s a much better compound it makes a better connection even with high-voltage
Is it hurting anything by using it? And you are incorrect I have wire brushed my cables before I terminate them. I read it in the Burndy instructions for crimps I was doing years ago and have done it since. I use to do large commercial projects with up to12 sets of 750Al cables every term wire brushed.
What I always thought was weird was, so you had to goop noalux on the conductor inside the meter or panel but no one ever talked about or inspected the overhead service connection.. being that it's exposed to weather conditions (even though it's taped, it's not in an enclosure)...
you've never noticed that all their connectors come packed with deox?
@@kenbrown2808 Yes, certain connectors definitely come packed with deox but most parallel groove clamps do not. most residential services around here (PA.) have parallel groove clamps.
@@brandonneur yeah, my power company used those for about two years and they deoxed the wires when they installed them.then they went back to covered pregooped connections.
@@kenbrown2808 Most of the time around here the contractor makes the overhead connection. Unless a new triplex/quadplex is needed. I've never had an inspector look or ask about anti ox regarding the overhead connection is all.
@@brandonneur that's bizarre. Back in the dark ages the power company let the electrician make a temporary service connection, here, but even back then, they would cut that out and make the permanent connection.
I use it on anything bigger than 2/0 for heat conduction. Air is a highly effective heat insulator. I also like to use it on grub screws to prevent seizing. I do the dip- to get it inside the stranded but then wipe the outside with a cloth. I never have messy blobs.
I bought some 4-4-4-4-2 aluminium SEC, (for a new transfer switch and 200 amp panel box) where does the 4th conductor go or what does it connect to? First in the meter box then in the transfer switch, then last, into the panel box. I can figure out 2 hots, a common and the smaller ground, but that 4th conductor has me stumped.
What about NoOx used for copper conductors? We use that in Oregon for exterior conductors in solar junction boxes…
Maybe extra protection against corrosion? 😂
Most people just watch the first few minutes of UA-cam videos. I can see a lot of young electricians are going to walk away from this video and say “ah, that grease is old school and I never have to use that!”
Is it not for the dissimilar metals as an anti corrosive compound??
My inspector always looks for it so I always make sure it's present. Emery cloth is always next to the box. I don't throw it away until I get the sticker signed.
You are mixing two different processes together: Yes Galvanic corrosion is less of a problem now, however outdoors, especially seaside installs, still need Noalox and airtight encapsulation. Then there is the thin 1.5-6 Nm oxide layer, which forms on all aluminium, even in complete dry conditions. This is the reason Aluminium looks un-oxidized but is responsible for increased resistance, so it might work fine for a bedside lamp, but are you doing serious current, this is something that needs to be taken seriously. You need special crimp connections and lugs, which also come with a Noalox like compound smeared on the inside.
I came up with a big company that didn't cut corners, at least the traveling new construction guys. We always brushed our aluminum terminations. I know it is cliche that men don't read instructions and a lot electricians don't but I always read the instructions for anything I use. If you use noalox do it right, if not I am cool with that to if it isn't necessary.
Authority having jurisdiction.
why are you fighting? the "authority" can learn new things csnt they? they also can see a youtube video cant they?
@@themtb2003 I wish it were that way. I'm in Colorado and, every county/inspector seems to have their own theory/rule.
@@chrisluna635 because they are morons with star syndrome and love bossing people around
I have #8 braided aluminum that was run for a stove, can I run this to my garage for a heater ? Thanks
It is a dielectric agent, if you put it between conductors in a termination it inhibits conductivity to some degree adding resistance and heat to the termination point???
It does not inhibit conductivity. Any place that is tightened correctly is pushing the material out of the contact location and keeping the damp air out.
We use it in our 92kv Substations...
As a electrician I read and was always taught to use it and It’s in the book. So it’s like I read the blueprint for a recept and they say no it’s wrong but the print says in this location and all of sudden it’s incorrect. Yeah dude I just go by the print haha
thats because you suck.
themtb2011 backwards sounds about white 😂
You won't pass inspection here without it (Tampa area)....Did I hear you say something like 'it doesn't oxidize and corrode as bad as it used to' ? So, it does indeed still oxidize and corrode, eh? But 'not like it used to', ??
I always use a wire brush and/or an emery cloth to clean the conductors whenever I'm called out to repair a service that has failed because the previous electrician didn't use de-ox - IF I can get the terminals loose and don't have to replace the whole mess.
also, Noalox is a brand name, and it's probably the worst, most annoying de-ox there is.
so yeah, if you're installing aluminum conductors anywhere but a desert, lubricate the threads of the terminal, and coat the entire exposed surface of the conductor with a good de-ox. it's cheap callback insurance. and if you're installing large copper outdoors, consider it, strongly.
I noticed Polaris lug connectors have it in already. Can u put a wire nut with copper / AL together. Polaris terminations are expensive.. lol
I'm guilty of using the dip method for putting on Noalox, and sometimes I even sand it with an emery cloth after applying it. I've also thought about applying it to each stand, but realized a problem with that. If I splay out the strands, that causes them to work harden and become brittle. Given the skin effect, I feel confident about treating just the surface, acknowledging I need to do it per instructions.
I work in a coastal city, so the Noalox is more than just belt and suspenders. Bottom line, though: When in doubt, do it the right way.
What about noalox and regular wire nut for pigtails ?
I do understand your poin. It has became a standard for most Electrician in my opinion. Especially old school guy's.
light pole wiring connections, where rain or sprinklers make contact with wiring,, or accent lighting fed out of a bell box on lawns, after sprinklers or rain hits put on cover bolts to remove especially if cover and gasket not put on correct and water builds up and no weep hole in the bell box......or parking lot lights in a hand hole that water drains into connections in water whether Florida, Ohio or Vermont it water will/can get to it put some on.....the maintenance person or homeowner will thank you....most contractors/wiremen don't want to spend the money or time. Not everyone has the right answer including me just telling what I've run into and what works for me.....it's for dissimilar metals...I even use on the screw lockdown on my flagpole....for us old guys we need all the help we can find opening covers or disconnection of wiring on terminal blocks or wiring splice nuts....Ideal wire nuts was my choice,, cheapy one's plastic cap comes off but spring connection still on wires spliced...now where did I put my cutters?????
It's amazing how little some of these inspectors actually know about the things they are inspecting🙄
Mine doesnt have no oxidizing agent in my main panel and electrician just change my main panel, should i be worried on this? Ty
So, the whole premise here is to read the 3 simple instructions on the container.
1) clean the conductor off with a wire brush or emory cloth
2) apply noalox freely to both the conductor and the connector
3) assemble joint and wipe off the excess
I always use it outdoors on aluminum. I didnt know u didnt have to. So i learned somethin myself today. I know people that use it on copper outside too.
come back and look at any terminals you skipped using it on in about a year. then make your decision.
Wondering about how AL connections come loose due to vibration, etc. Need to be retightened. My 22 year old AL wires are perfect with NOALOX on the connections.
All Aluminum house. Can I use a WAGO connector to wire to a Copper Outlet?
Too bad it's a code requirement in Canada: 12-118(2): "A joint compound, capable of penetrating the oxide film and preventing its reforming, shall be used for terminating or splicing all sizes of stranded aluminum conductors, unless the termination or splice is marked for use without compound."
good
Hey boss do you know proper torque ratings for aluminium wire for 15, 20 amp and above for breakers? I cant find much online, thanks!
Should I use this on my mogul light bulb converter in my antique torch lamp? Guy sold it to me but not sure I need it. Please help. Thanks.
No.
My old foreman had us use noalox on rigid conduit threads
Smart man that's been around the block a while
Using copper cable in residential or commercial structures is just stupid. The NEC doesn't take into account that structures can last over 100 years and it is likely that an untrained person will attach copper directly to aluminum. Many of the fires that occured in aluminum wired houses happened because homeowners replaced switches and outlets with copper units. Aluminum should only be used in industrial settings or transmission lines.
I work in a damp corrosive factory and we use it on everything cause if you don’t you will lose connection or never ever get the terminal apart again.
It seems like most electricians are treating it like KY Jelly. Slop it all over and then use their tool. GREAT video on proper usage!
Unfortunately, a most inspectors are old guys who think you need Nolox on anything aluminum, so we always use it, because it saves you having to undo your work to add it later. Also, I can appreciate what you're saying about manufacturer's directions; but no one cleans the end of the wire with a wire brush because that would be stupid. You just stripped the insulation off of the end of a brand new wire. Why would you clean it?
When we sold our house the only correction needed was on the breaker box. The two main cables coming into the house to the top of the box had no protection on it. It passed the original inspection in 06 but not ‘19. The electrician has been in the business for 40 years and never had a call for this. He said it’s because of dissimilar metals but there was zero corrosion or dust. Cost me $250 for 5 minutes of his time.
I will not use aluminum wire, had some quotes on some jobs and they guy gave my a quote for aluminum wire, I told he no and he got mad at me, it was my job site and my call, I just dont like it at all.
If you are putting copper wire into a S.D. Lug kit QO70ANCP - do you need no ox?
So what about if your home is surrounded by trees and moisture is an issue for your home but you dont live in an moisture prone environment
I have a question if you live in New York City and you're doing aluminum to copper or below sea level shouldn't you be using it anyway because it oxidized