Tom Batter Comparison: 1-ply vs. 2-ply | Season Four, Episode 27
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- We’re back with our exploration into comparing types of drumheads on different drums! This week we’re covering all aspects of 1-ply and 2-ply tom batter heads. We’ve got detailed back-to-back demos of low, medium, and high tunings so you can really focus on the sonic differences across the tuning range. Grab a pair of headphones and get ready to nerd out!
0:00 Intro
1:12 Approach
2:23 Low Tuning
7:05 Medium Tuning
12:18 High Tuning
18:02 Summary
18:57 Wrap up
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314Pair
Snare & Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D112 sladl.ink/D112mkII
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra, 1960’s Ludwig Acrolite snare drum
Cymbals:
15” Zildjian “Fat Hat” Prototype Hihats, 22” Jesse Simpson custom ride
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 Coated / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 Coated & G2 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
👂🏼👉🏼🥁
Leave your questions, comments, suggestions, requests down below and don't forget to subscribe!
*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
--------------------------
Sounds Like a Drum is a CADENCE INDEPENDENT MEDIA production
For more information, visit www.cadenceindependent.com
Follow us on Instagram: / soundslikeadrum
Like us on Facebook: / soundslikeadrum
Anyone else find that when you change heads, and by change I mean going from single to double ply or maybe clear to coated, that you feel like it’s the best sound ever and you love it. And then in time you change again and now THAT sound is the best sound ever. Currently using single ply clear after years of using double ply and have been loving it (until I try something different lol)!
I get what you are saying. Also changes your playing.
Except for the time I tried Remo Legacy LA on my toms (remember those?). They were awful, and I immediately chucked them.
Yes. With guitar I have tones I like and tones I hate. Bass I have tones I love and tones I like. With drums I’m always like “hey, that sounds cool!” Then I put my mic to it and I’m like ugh 😑
Same thing when I go up or down a size in sticks
no
Thank you for confirming why my Ambassador Vintage heads haven’t been tuning up to a great-sounding “jazz” tom range lol I’ve been using double-ply heads for years with rock music (to great effect). I can’t wait to finally start experimenting with the higher tunings of single-ply heads!
I’ve found that a mix of single and double ply around the kit make sense. My bigger toms get 2 ply (13-16” toms/bass drum) and smaller get single (10-12”). Seems to work best for me. Seems that bigger toms get more successive hits on average, so I like the sustain to get out of the way and like more rebound.
I got the concept by seeing some jazz drummers using mixed pairs of sticks based on playing the ride vs snare etc. Made obvious sense, no need to be “matched” or consistent but rather use what is best for that particular drum’s use or characteristic.
Now here’s Tom with the weather…
Love that approach! We've done some stuff with a similar concept of gradually thicker single-ply heads from smallest to largest drums. The sound is great but the feel is fantastic.
Actually cannot believe these guys only have 75k subs. Honestly my favourite drum channel at the moment!
Dude, I really enjoy your videos, don’t stop!
Great explanation and demonstration!🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
I didn’t quite expect that. In the low and medium tuning I had trouble telling the difference. At the high tuning it was very obviously different. Crazy. Most people outside of jazz tune medium to low I’d say, so if they sound pretty similar I guess the main difference is then the perceived extra durability of 2 ply.
Thanks so much guys! I just love this stuff. Currently I'm using Evans G2 coated on the batters and G1 clears on the resos. Usually I keep them in the medium to low range where they do sound good. Although especially on the 10 inch tom I would like to go a little higher. Maybe I'll change that to a single ply and keep 2 ply on the 12 and 14. Or maybe all single ply. Possibilities are endless. This video definitely helps my decision making though. Thanks again. 🥁❤
Well shit, you guys just make the best damn drum videos I've ever seen. Something clinical yet real about them. Great hosting, great playing, and great examination of practical use of these tools. I love it.
Thank you so much! Glad you’re enjoying them!
This UA-cam channel is amazing🙏🏽
I like the interlude where you alternate the ride hand between the two toms. Very musical. I always thought the two=ply batter was traditional, but now I like the sound from the one-ply head.
I've never been thrilled with the tone and feel of my rack toms, and this video really shed a lot of light. I've been using UV2's all the way around my kit. But after watching this, I think I'm gonna try UV1's on my 10 and 12 and stick with UV2's on 14 and 16. Thank you for another super insightful video!
I think that was a concept Peter Erskine used to employ: single ply on the racks and double ply on the floors. Hope it works out for you.
I used to be all about 2 ply heads all around when I was younger because I was an obnoxiously hard hitter all the time. Over the years that I've learned to tone it down, pun intended, I've really come to appreciate single ply heads on toms and snare.
My favorites are clear Aquarian Studio X on the toms tuned low and a basic texture coated on snare tuned med-high.
Agreed, Aquarian Studio X for me also when I'm playing rock, blues or country. TC or Modern Vintage for jazz pop and other lighter playing.
Aquarian Studio X heads are amazing. Warm, less ring, durability, great heads! I was about to buy them again and came across this video bcz I was considering 2 ply, what timing lol and now your comment has me reconsidering 2 ply Aquarian coated heads.
I’m currently using the texture coated power dot in a high tuning and it sounds phenomenal!
That kit sounds fantastic with the 1 ply tuned high 🤘
Even though it would be almost the same shootout, I would love to see a comparison between 1 ply coated and 2 ply clear. From what I hear in this video, the 1 ply is really balanced between attack and tone but lacks a bit of "growl" and the 2 plies lack articulation for my taste so to speak. A clear 2-ply would certainly add more attack to the equation, which would make the comparison much more "comparable". If you could do that I would be very happy :)
Shocked about the high tuning results!!! I did not expect to see that range out of 2-ply heads.
2-ply coated at a medium tension is my go-to sound for sure. The drums have a nice fat attack but are able to sing nicely as well. I've done loads of jazz gigs where I've tuned up 2-ply heads pretty high and it sounded fine to me. They have enough range to cover all styles and sound exceptional at the kind of tunings I like to go for most.
This is where the thicker single ply heads (Evans G12 and G14, for example) are a Godsend as far as I'm concerned. I have never been a fan of 2-ply heads, frankly. You can always deaden a single ply head, but it's difficult for me to get more life and sheer wallop out of a double ply. That said, as this video demonstrates quite admirably either of the two sound amazing when well tuned and well miked. Happy New Year and thanks for all the great content (and great playing) year 'round.
I definitely like to tune my toms low for rock etc. kinda tones and love the fat overhang of 2-plys. Thanks for confirming my assumption to stay with them, clear G2's are on right now. Maybe going back to emperors though, we'll see. Love these vids!
I've been into just using Evans g2s on everything. Coated on snare, clear on toms. Middle of the road resonance, yet controlled and durable. Now I don't have to think about it. Sounds good
A friend recommended G2 coated batter and Genera Resonant resos and for a long time I loved it!
I then wanted to try clear heads and that didn’t thrill me at all.
Then I went back to G2 coated and Reso 7. Too dry.
I’m finally back with G2 coated batter and G1 coated resos which I should have been using all along…go figure
I knew I always preferred coated heads to clear heads I just needed to find the right combination.
Evans got a lot of my money while I was experimenting and finding my sound.
One of the things I really enjoy about your videos is that your drum sounds are consistently exactly to my taste. Love the pitches, and the tunings etc.. There's a blessing and a curse in that however. I'm not sure what the element is, whether it's your drums, or more likely, the recording, but no matter what you demonstrate, it sounds good. So in comparisons like this, it doesn't reflect my in-person experiences with drums, both mine and other's kits. When I was drumming back in the day, once I tried Remo coated Pinstripes on my toms and kick, I never looked back because single ply heads had always sounded so bad to me, whether on my kit or on others. With the two plys I no longer had to use any muting methods to tame the terrible ringing overtones, not even in the kick. All single plys sounded pretty bad to me (when not in the context of a mix, anyway), but I'm not hearing any of what I didn't like, in your single ply demos. So if I didn't have my own experiences, I'd likely be thinking "Well, single plys sound really good too...". But from my experience, I know that if I was to walk out today and put together another kit and put singles on it, I would end up not liking it, and I'd be using dampening all over everything again. Weird.
For toms, I like both 1 ply and 2 ply heads for the batter side. To me, if seems i can pretty much get all sounds out of a 1 ply head that i can out of a 2 ply one, and more. I do prefer 2 ply in lower tunings, like you said a little more rebound, and a little more low end. But it is quite subtle, and change stick from 5A to 2B and the toms sound bigger and fatter too. Loved the comment about “you might be tuning too low”!
I prefer 1 ply Reso heads on 8"/10"/12" and 2 ply Reso heads on 14"/16".
The Batter heads are all 2 ply. In a medium-low tuning, the 6 ply maple shells sounding fantastic.
No muffling, except 14" and 16" one piece moon gel. Great Video, and many greetings from Germany.
In nearly all styles I used coated Amb. on top and Diplomat as bottom.
I personally prefer 1-ply for pretty much everything; I find that I have more tuning/muffling versatility at hand. I typically tune high for jazz sounds these days, and for that it’s the rather obvious choice (imo). 2-plies tune high surprisingly well though if you need them to!
I’ve been playing coated ambassadors for years now on everything and was playing a studio kit that had Coated G2’s and I loved it but I was wondering how they feel when pitched up cuz I tend to tune my 10 decently high and when I do jazz gigs I like taking the 12 and 14 up from their usual medium low tuning (so medium up depending on the venue for jazz gigs) Im finding myself wanted a little bit more tone control in the resonance in my toms because I play birch shells which seems to project a lot more and I had clear black dots on bottom which do help with over time but I tune them higher in general than maybe most people do so I think some coated emperors might help drop the sound without lowering pitch but I wonder how 2 ply heads perform at higher, but still sun be bop, tuning
@@bakerfam1000 you can get them up to pitch similar to a 1-ply, but they do sound a little choked out. If it’s a short term thing I would say it’s fine, if high tuning is a sound you want to stick with then 1-plies are better imo
@@tylerblake3596 love it that’s all I needed to hear! Cheers!
Great video 😊
To start with, for me and my personal preference, I don't like to hear multiple tones within a single tom stroke. I prefer 1 steady short to medium sustained tone that neither goes up or down on decay.
That being said with respect to sound and not feel, I couldn't hear much of a difference on the rack tom throughout the 3 tunings. However I could definatly hear a difference on the floor tom on the low and medium tuning. The single ply had a much cleaner sound with good sustain and a single steady tone.
The two ply had a "muddy" tone that dropped frequency on decay. My suspicion is that due to the mass and the 2 plys upon tuning, one layer was slightly tighter than the other and created 2 very close frequencies (maybe 1 to 5 Hz difference) that created the muddy tone while a difference in the resonant head tuning created the drop of tone upon decay.
Therefore in the future, I might consider a hybrid head setup by using 2 ply on my toms for a stiffer feel and better wear and a 1 ply on my floor toms to keep a cleaner sound. The mass of the floor toms will help with acceptable wear time.
Thanks again for a fantastic drum video. Your demonstrations, comparisons, and sharing of your percussion knowledge is much appreciated. 👍
Im a reggae musician playing on a Gretsch Catalina Maple and I have Aquarian super kick 2s on bass, Black chrome batters with G1 resos wide open and i love the tone out of them. Its not as bright as G2s on the batter but not muffled or choked and produces a great low end resonant sound IMO
Ive been sticking with coated G2s on toms but still like to experiment with different snare batters.
Great comparison video!
Thanks for this video. I've recently fell in love with the Kentville kangaroo heads. Not easy though depending on the weather.
We *love* the Kentville heads!
Those are great comparisons,now try them on a 3 ply vintage kit,Ludwig rogers,gretch,slingerland ,your choice,different bearing edge for sure
I prefer 2 ply medium-high tuning for rock on my birch kit that has large size drums. I prefer 1 ply medium-high tuning for jazz on my maple kit. Not sure why just from experience, it "feels" best to me. One thing I noticed, Remo CS Black dots medium tuning sound incredible on my birch wood kit. I use remo coated white most of the time though, they just feel better and I can do more tuning wise with them.
In the past couple of years I've moved to a G2 on the rack and a G1 on the floor tom(which has the cotton ball treatment.) I generally tune to a low/medium on both toms.
On the main kit in my studio the rack is quite a bit louder than the floor IF the rack is equipped with a G1.
Mind you... this is pretty much for a recording scenario. Gaff tape still makes it's way out on occasion.
Very interesting! We generally recommend more mass for the larger drums if you're going for more of a graduated setup. Ever tried the G1 for the rack and G2 for the floor?
@@SoundsLikeADrum Yup, that's how I ended up with the current setup. In truth...I prefer hydraulic heads on toms with no reso heads--I'm just "funny" like that. 🤷🏼♂️
I'm playing a show this weekend and your video has me thinking.
I won't be miking my toms ( i usually use Clear G2 with microphones) and i'm thinking of using clear G1 since they will give me more volume since they ring more. Any thoughts? Thanks.
I love how the floor tom just growls with the 2-ply head.
That extra mass makes quite the difference! They're sooooo good for lower tunings.
I love the 2 ply drumheads
What aspect of the 2-ply heads do you like the most?
I'm considering going back to 2-ply on the floor tom, but I think smaller toms sound better with 1-ply. Then again, I'm also considering pitching up my toms.
I generally stick with 2 ply heads due to the durability and they sound better tuned low which is where I live. I'm also a hard hitter.
That said I now have been using Evans hydraulics so of course they're 2 ply.
A question i have is ..What drum head will cut through while playing with a band when you have no microphones ..Sometimes the single ply heads cut through more ..What do you think .Ty Happy Holidays stay healthy
Generally speaking, a pair of single-ply heads (batter and reso) tuned in the medium range without any muffling will project the most. Specific tuning choices depend on the context but this approach tends to yield consistent results. We’d even recommend going with a slightly thicker single-ply batter like a G12 so you can hit a little harder without sacrificing durability or tone. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrum yeeeaaasss this. I think ambasofar x also really cool for the same reason. Single ply, medium tuned, but becouse of the thickness they are just a bit lower in pitch
Can someone explain how 2-ply heads are more durable than 1-ply heads if they’re made of two thinner plies? It must be the overall thickness that matters? Thanks!
A super important factor was omitted. What sticks/tips were you using?
Not really important since they didn’t change between demos but they’re the Carter McLean signature sticks. There are a multitude of other factors that color the sound far more than the sticks though. Still, we aimed to minimize excess variables so that the change of heads was the focus.
Anyone use a vintage ambassador yet? Its a 2-ply head but same thickness as a 1-ply. So im curious on that one
Wondering witch one would be better for all around low volume playing, with best articulation and volume range?
We'd definitely recommend going with a single-ply option, as they typically have less mass and so they speak at lower dynamics while still being capable of louder volume.
I understandably just suck at tuning but i cant get a 1-ply to sound nice and low without the tension rods falling off or so i think. So then i think i need double ply heads so i can go lower. My thinking may be wrong though
Do you see situations where you might prefer a 1ply on the rack tom(s) and a 2 ply on the floor tom?
That’s a choice I make often actually - especially if the span of sizes is big, say 10/12/16, going to the double on the 16 to balance the sound 👍🏻 -Cody
Man, the main thing that strikes me is how doggone similar they are across the board!
I can’t believe I even used to use 2 ply heads. They almost sound choked compared to single ply. I suppose if you are someone who must tune low though they would be the preferred choice. Personally I would just choose to play larger drums if I really wanted low sounds all the time
2-ply heads are great for heavy styles like metal and punk. I want a quick, deep sound, and I don't want bigger (i.e. less portable) drums. Plus they can take a beating.
Lately I’ve been using the 2 ply remo coated ambassador vintage on both rack and floor tom. Paired with Evans Hydraulic Glass on the reso. That’s something I stole from Neil peart lol. Kinda strange, but after experimenting with a bunch of head combinations I’m pretty happy with this one. Y’all should do a video about using hydraulics as resos.
8
i've used hyros for resos ....
Ive been very curious about the vintage ambs. I use double ply so itd still br that but i could try out the thickness of a singl6 play
Currently using UV2's and Evans Ebony resos on my DW 8,10,12,14,16. I used to use 1 ply heads all the time. First time with the UV2's and those black resos. Tuning is with the Tune Bot copying the settings of Dennis Chambers. Kind of in the mid to upper mid range. Really punchy and they record better than any other head combo I've had over the years.
I like what you do but I just wish you could quantify what you mean by Low, medium and high tunings. It all means different things to different people. Even if you tuned the drums by ear and then measured with a Tunebot it would be much more helpful!
In the end, even describing it is unnecessary once you hear the sound. All of this is relative anyway. If your intention is to recreate a specific sound, your ear is your best tool. Cheers!
Could you do this with Attack drum heads?
We did a bunch of videos demonstrating different heads from Attack previously. If they’re interested in some comparisons, that’s definitely something we could offer.
I can’t find attack head anywhere anymore. When I do, it’s limited stock. I hope they are still in business.
@@DrummerKeithScott The brand is under new ownership/distribution and is working to get them into more shops. We had the pleasure of getting to spend time with a bunch of different heads from their lineup and we were quite impressed. Your best bet is to let your preferred store know that you'd like to see them stocking specific models. Customer inquiries are what influence these decisions.
The biggest difference to me is actually that with the 2 ply heads, your kick drum cut through better. Any idea why this would be?
Its because the 2 ply heads have more attack. So the toms take over in the higher frequency ranges, aka. the "attack," which in turn emphasizes the low end of the kick, giving it more punch.
@@TheDrummaJ im hearing more beater attack from the kick aswell. Either way, its always two ply heads for me
2-ply has more body in its sound. Unnecessary in lighter music, but for hardrock/heavy metal nearly mandatory.
With headphones, I heard the 1 ply as being louder and puncher..
what is this lower dynamics? 😁😂
it is difficult to ear a difference
like Simon Phillips would say "leave them toms alone!". he swears by clear single ply because it delivers at any tuning range and the whole spectrum comes to life. coated on toms is a big NO NO for him and for me too. find me a better drummer to talk about tom play? Simon has some of the most musical tom play in history of music.