One-Ply vs. Two-Ply Snare Batters | Season Four, Episode 9
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- There are all sorts of expectations and general assumptions about the difference between one-ply and two-ply snare batter heads. Some of these are accurate, others…not so much. So we set out to compare an Evans G1 vs. G2 at a range of tunings to demonstrate sound and discuss the change in feel as well as overall performance.
*Note: All comparisons start with the G1 and alternate between the two heads.
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PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/Evan...
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProM...
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C414 XLS sladl.ink/C414XLS
Snare & Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick: AKG D112 sladl.ink/D112...
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/1970’s Ludwig LM400 Supraphonic
Cymbals:
Zildjian old K 14” hihat top over Jazz Master bottom, 22” Jesse Simpson custom modified ride (old A clone)
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 & G2 Coated / Snare Side 300
Bass Drum: Evans UV EMAD / UV EQ4
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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AMEN FOR BACK TO BACK COMPARISONS!!
Only suggestion is to put a 1ply/2ply label somewhere on screen but besides that great video as always!!
they usually do from what I've seen, it seems like they just overlooked it this time
This was always my ONLY complaint about this channel. Id always find myself having to manually figure out where an example was and doing the comparison manually.
just look at the drum head - it say 1 or 2
This channel and this man is absolutely one of the most trusted sources for go to info for me as a 60+ yr old drumming since first kit in 1968. Always pertinent, knowledgeable and helpful info here. Presentations are ALWAYS well done. Thx once again. Solid drumming skills too. Best. Deano
I keep tellin these drummers
Hahaha the full commitment to that joke. Went through the entire outro and plugged the Patreon and everything.
This is by far my favorite and most useful drum channel!
I've been an Evans guy for 15-plus years, having tried Remo and Aquarian as well; I've found myself preferring the Evans sound and feel over the other brands' equivalents practically every time. I experimented with various head types: G1, G2, HD dry, etc. I love the G1 coated for all my snares, they sing best with that head. I use the mid range tuning and it's the most versatile for me as a cover band and church player.
Please identify on screen which is the G1 and which is the G2. It's hard to see the drumheads.
Will do in the future. Each comparison starts with the G1 as narrated and each subsequent demo is announced.
"per my very clear narration" 😅
Nice demo, as always, gents.
The intro was great. Good stuff as always my dudes.
I always struggle to determine if I want a 1 or 2 ply heads for my snares. This comparison really helps me understand the fundamental differences, so thank you! Great idea using the G1 and G2 heads to keep it focused on the basics (no distracting nuances from muffling or venting features)! Curious if the results and/or your takeaways would be the same if this was done with a wood shell?
I've done a ton of head research for my snares, and the conclusion I've come to is that for metal or hard rock drumming... my particular wood and metal snares shine with Evans Power Center heads. I have a Hammered Stainless Steel 5.5 X 14 and a 7 x 13 Maple/Ash. One thing I will say, is it's interesting to simultaneously play with the snare side head. I run a 5mil (500) on the stainless and a 3mil (300) on the wood. It would be great to see you do a video comparing snare side heads.
This was great. I almost always use an Emperor on snare drums, but it's really interesting to hear the difference between the 2 heads under the same conditions. I used to use the heaviest heads possible for durability, EC2s with the center dot, or the Heavyweight heads, but I felt like they changed the sound too much and really didn't feel good to play or sound good at lower dynamics. The G2/Emperor seems to be the option that gives me enough durability with an open enough sound that leaves me enough options in terms of muffling and tuning.
I'm hearing a higher pitched overtone with the 2 ply. It would be helpful to have a text saying which version is being played... hard to tell in some sequences. My preference is thicker single ply heads over dual ply. I used Evans EC1 heads in the past... your video inspired me to buy a new set of UV1s. I use 5B (lately Zildjian Anti-Vibe), brushes (coated heads) and I play prog, rock, jazz, latin jazz. Thanks for the content! I wish this knowledge (and youtube) was available to me 37 years ago when I started playing!... then again there was no laptops or cell phones to watch the videos on :)
Now do the same on kicks!!
Love the content!
Yes!
My favorite is the UV1, with a Snareweight M1 for a starting point. If I need more overtones, I flip up the M1. If I need fewer overtones, I throw a ring on it (I cut my own out of old drumheads.) If I need a fatter tone, I throw a cutout head (my version of a BFSD) on. I really like the feel of the UV1 & it has been much easier to tune than other heads I've used.
I do exactly the same
Watched this after I switched from 2 ply pinstripe clear to single ply ambassador. The difference is enormous! Might stick to single ply from now on...
Cory, Getting my DW Design series Nickel over Brass 14 X 6.5 snare to the sweet spot like in this video is driving me Up the Wall. I can't get to that nice "POP" with the nice overtones you are getting here. I've tried UV1 and UV2 batter heads, not to my liking. I purchased the Drum Used in 2021- the previous owner had a HD Dry batter on it. It sounded great right out of the Delivery box from Reverb. A few weeks ago, I installed a new HD dry batter head. No matter how I tune it, I just can't get to that "Sound". I re-installed the Reso head and Wires, cleaned the bearing heads on the drum, re-installed the batter head - still get there! Then, in frustration last week or so, I put the DW snare on top of my 16 inch Floor Tom to get the drum out of the way (I played my maple 14 X 5.5 Snare that day). During a fill, I hit the DW snare while on top of he Tom and BINGO - it yielded that Ludwig Supraphonic , John Bonham Snare sound. Take it off the Tom, it was NOT the same. Posters on various Drum Forums said : You are playing 2 Drums at the same time; one said jokingly that I may have invented a new Snare Stand? As I mentioned earlier, I tried the UV1 and UV 2 which dissappointed. Should I give the G2 a whirl? Any idea as to what is happening when doing the Floor Tom Combo.
Interesting take. I'm gonna have to give it a try again many years later. Sounds like it could even help my arthritis possibly. Thanks!
Nice comparison. I agree with you that one ply heads are a little more sensitive but I've also found with certain drums ( especially drums with 10 lugs) seem to have more attack at low volumes with 2 ply heads. Over the years of playing , I equated that to the slack points in an 8 lug drum have a muffling effect. With a 10 lug drum like a supraphonic , it had more of a timbale effect with a single ply head. Especially if I was playing at medium to low volume, it was tough to get a nice sound
Bearing edges are a big factor in my choosing one or two ply heads for snares. A friend of mine built me two snares (both 8 ply maple shells, 5X13 & 7X14) with edges cut at 66 degrees from both sides. The edges are like knife blades. Big or small the 2 ply heads put some focus & control into the heads. My bronze Sensitone (with the fold over edges) always gets a single ply head. Just one more factor to consider. Beauty job as usual, cats.
I like to go “one ply plus a little”. The Evans G12 may be the greatest thing to happen to drum heads. It’s my Frank’s Red Hot sauce - I put that sh!t on everything! It plays like a one ply, it’s sensitive and crispy, but it has a body and depth that a traditional one-ply lacks a bit. Don’t get me wrong, a G1 is an excellent head. But the G12 brings a little more oomph to the party with none of the ‘downside’ of a 2-ply.
You’re speaking our language! 👊🏻
Yeah I'm really like those too! One one kit I have G12s on the rack toms and G14s on the floor toms. Its a really killer sound!
Hey Dan.... FYI, the G12 is a 12 mil 1 ply head!!!
I agree.
Same can be said about the Evans G14! That's MY go-to snare batter these days. I've been slowly swapping out the ST Coated on my snares for the G14 coated.
I like the 1 ply in the mid and low tuning. The 2ply sounds good in low and high tuning range. Also the snare shell is metal I believe and that played a big part in the sound. I would of like the comparison on a wood shell snare drum.
For my own personal choice, I like the feel and the sound of the G1 better. I guess I like the little extra sensitivity of the G1 and I like to tune mid to high range so the feel seems better for at there. 🥁❤
Awesome job guys
You guys should do an ep on the effect of different types of tom reso heads like a black dot head underneath a la Tony Williams or Cindy Blackman . Also Clear vs Coated vs ebony on reso head too!
I usually prefer 2-ply heads on my snare and toms because I feel that they not only add depth & body to the sound, but also kill off some of the excess overtones as well. I usually use Remo Coated Emperors on my snare drums & toms. I have an early 1980s Maxwin by Pearl Snare drum where the only head that works for that drum is a Remo Clear Pinstripe. I also like using Remo Clear Pinstripes as well on the toms as well. I have also used Remo Coated Pinstripes & like those too.
For the playing I do with my band, Sonic Skyways, I prefer an all-around run of the mill pop sound from my snare drum. The Evans UV1 and Snareweight M1 has been a phenomenal combo. I’ve been all over the snare head spectrum in the last decade… one ply, two ply, dry vents, sound control. I’ve determined you can’t go wrong with a solid one ply head and a little muffling.
For my jazz kit I like coated ambassadors on batter side and diplomats on snare side and play with 5b wood tip(usually) sticks on a Ludwig maple snare 5x14. I use same config for my 5-5.5 metal snare drums. For my rock kit I like emperor coated on batter side with diplomat snare side and use 2b wood tip sticks(usually) on a Ludwig supraphonic 6.5x14. I also have a couple wood snare drums for my rock music, maple and birch, that I use same config.
What were the tom resos used?
Nice sounding supra! What hoops are in there? 2.3 triple flange? Original snares?
This would be nice to know for us gear heads!
This might be an odd question, but is it typically normal for the 2 ply to produce more “ping” than the Single?
That’s what I’m hearing at least.
I heard the same thing, I’m speculating that you’re hearing more drum sound cos the two plies aren’t letting the head ring out as much
Me too in the medium and high tuning. Seemed deader in the low tuning to me.
Would make sense, think of a cymbal. Thicker the cymbal, higher the pitch ^^
In my experience, undamped 2 ply heads do tend to have more ring on snares, which seems counterintuitive but that's definitely what I usually find. For me, the good old 10 mil single ply coated head is hard to beat and is the only one that I find truly works for any gig.
I heard a very distinctive high pitch ring with the 2ply,was that present on set?
very annoying
Love the choice of snare. My favorite and the only one I play. I hit hard and tune low so really only buy 2 ply heads. My favorites are the Evans hydraulics, Love that 70s sound. I was surprised at the sound of the 2 ply tuned really high but I would never tune hydraulic heads like that.
haha! That intro!
Great vid, thanks guys. How did u like the Carter McLean sticks? They look cool as.
I always found reverse-dot snare heads the best of both worlds: enhanced durability, beefy bottom end but still with single-ply ‘zing’.
Can never make 2 ply heads sound pleasing to me, there’s this midrange ‘honk’ that I can’t get over, but having said that it doesn’t seem to come through when recorded. Always all subjective, which is nice. 🙂
Sounds great! What pitch was the resonant head tuned to?
Lol, asked this question on another video and here is the answer! :)
Love your videos!!One small thing,i think you mean season four in the title?I apologize if i'm wrong
Good catch- thanks!
For me the G2 lacks low end in every tuning strangely.
Thx for using a “normal “ snare
It’s great to compare that to your other amazing snares
Also love 90s tunes case in point the phonic and cranked tuning
It wasn’t mick fleetwood on those tracks
No offense love them too 🤪🤣
I use an Emperor X CS Dot for my super low snares, but I like single ply for higher tunings, dotted or not. My personal favorite is to slap a vinyl sticker on the center of a normal single ply. Make my one reverse dot!
I made some vinyl dots for my Emperors and Pinstripes. I just did them for looks, but they actually make the head sound more focused.
@@geoffcowan2384 what did you make the dots out of & where did you get it? I’ve had the idea before buy could never find a suitable material. 👍🏼👍🏼
@@kolchek1000 I just used a vinyl cutter and the vinyl that is made for those machines. I have a set of vintage Tama Imperialstars in hairline chrome and I wanted silver dots for them. So I got chrome vinyl on Amazon and cut some circles. They look great, but what surprised me was they sounded great too. Holding up good after 6 months. Did them in black for my red sparkle set. Still look and sound good too.
Since I'm a very heavy hitter, I always go for two ply heads just because they last longer. And they usually sound very good, I feel like I'm never playing a single play ever again. hjahahaha
😂 Great start 👍🏼
You too!
What about 3 ply? I just got a Remo black x which has "two plies of textured ebony 10-mil film with a 3-mil reverse dot" according to the description. It has the nice beefy sound I like but to be honest sounds a little bit dead compared to the old one ply stretched out head that was on there before
I'd love to see the same test with a wooden shell. Great video though!
New camera? Love the clairity. But it may be me. ;)
another great video, thanks guys! just one question - the supra is the aluminum (ludalloy) not the COB, would results be similar with the COB? i have a 60’s aluminum keystone badge with two ply head but have been wanting to try the g1 and this bideo convinced me i should. thanks again!
Hey there! I imagine the COB might behave a bit differently (I have a modern COB Supra too and have compared), but the overall effect of switching from 1 ply to 2 will adjust the sound and feel similarly :) -Cody
@@SoundsLikeADrum okay thanks!
😆 the intro 👏🏼
Awesome 👏
I love this
Ringing that out like a bell at medium tuning and the G2. I loved the focused notes at medium tuning. I get aggravated by overtones that interfere and convolute in low tuning and high tuning which seems to be what everyone else loves? So I am confused genuinely. I am a complete hobbyist and I suck so I really do want to know some things if that is ok?
If everyone loves those transients and conflicting sounds and overtones, then why do recordings make sure and shut them up? Since the dawn of recording, engineers do everything they can to eliminate ringing, or "overtones", any variables really. Indeed most cut the drums into shreds and replace them with a sampled version today and for the last 20 years. They blame it on cheap kits or bad drummers or "insert lie here" - Truth is they just don't like drums interfering with their mad plans of perfection.
For instance when I go to hear any music live, they cut out the can-like resonance which - again - purists and drummers that work in the music industry seem to profess loving?
So asking as directly and gently as I can; do you love the whole drum and nothing but the drum? Truly? Is it playing the drums that you love? Is it the fact that someone can mix it with toys and Band-Aids end erase the natural bend of a head that is on every modern drum. And if mixing the variance out is so important to the mix then why aren't drums made - well - to resonate at one note? I mean it has been thousands of years - drums came first.
Or why aren't they made with pedals or gaskets or switches that manage sustain and tune in real time like kettle drums? But even Kettle drums have many other conflicting tones I can here if even just.
Why do I love the feel of a drum kit? Tell me why I need to drum every now and then to feel ok about anything? And if that is so why don't I love all of it? I struggle to get any drum to just sit there until I command it to jump. Oh no they are designed to resonate - which isn't wanted in the end? We pad our walls and choose mics that kill the real drum sounds that are pouring all over the face of music like bad porn.
Why don't I get it? Why do I even care that there has to be a drum set out there that I don't have to fight for clarity or concise notes? Where the sound is just that - A sound not 12 conflicting tones?
feral
I love - I mean I just love high tunings on a 10" or 12"x5.5" cracker or wasp sharper than anything. When I hear that crack I run to the place it is emanating from. I am drawn to it. I just really love that crack/pop with a wash or sizzle under it.
But then I hear the vibrato of conflicting notes, overtones I suppose? And I just get disappointed.
But - because of you and some other UA-cam Monsters I have just ordered my first acoustic kit. I chose the Mapex Armory for many reasons related to money. But mostly because I like the tighter snap of the entire kit when it is tuned middle of the road. I like the fact that the toms eventually shut the hell down. I like how different they sound than most others and I like the fact that I can choke them down and set them high and they just do it. I have the space and I am remodeling the entire area these are gong to live in.
Gah I just rambled for 30 minutes.
Sorry but not sorry.
A Fan
A good compromise is a reverse dot head, I like remo, but Evans is cool too. Also it depends on the snare, for me ludwigs sound best to me with 2 ply, but my pearl snare likes a single.
I love me a cs dot on me supraphonic. Won't take it off till it's dead!
I like this video
Nice to meet you in the park today. Expect to see my daughter’s roommate
Yes! Good hang :) -Cody
You should have done that for April Fool's Day. lol.
To my ear at high tuning the G2 almost sounds muffled not choked but muffled.
I wish the heads were tuned to the same pitch. Maybe the tension was the same but the pitch was off far enough that I felt the comparison was a little weaker than usual. In every case, the G1 sounded better to my ears. Maybe it would have been the same even if they were at the exact same pitch.
They were, in fact, tuned to the same pitch. The tension was different, as it takes different tension to achieve the same pitch with different mass. Careful not to mistake the change in overtones/timbre with a different fundamental pitch.
emperor x up top, ambassador no collar snare side. even went with emperor x on the toms and emperor clears for rezos on my smaller set.
I’ve never seen a no-collar snare side outside of marching. What would you say are the characteristics on a regular snare drum? Differences vs a regular Amb?
I always thought it was just a design difference to allow for the higher tensions it’d be likely to see, so you don’t end up with a head stretching past the hoops.
@@DZNTZ that's pretty much why i use em. all my snares seem to end up really close to the lug on the snare side, so close they're nearly touching. i went with a no collar head and it corrected the issue. can't say there's any difference in sound between a regular ambassador, but it allows for more of the rim to end up below the head, and more room between the rim and lug casings.
I prefer 3 ply heads myself
Haha!
I've only found two 1-ply heads that can last longer than an hour for my playing: Evans Genera Dry and Remo Controlled Sound Clear. Everything else is basically worthless by the time I'm done warming up.
@@YourHeartIsAGrave Steady rimshots all day!!
Low tuning every time for me....just can't stand the sound of snare drums cranked right up !!
Both sound like garbage to me. Maybe it's that tin can of a snare. I've heard (and played) steel snares that I like but never on this channel. Are you hitting rim shots all the time, or is that overtone just a function of material and tuning?
The snare drum you are listening to is widely considered the greatest snare drum of all time, and it is the most widely recorded drum in history. It's the Ludwig supraphonic and it is aluminum not steel, and aluminum is noted as being "in between" wood and metal in tone. If you've ever heard led zeppelin, deep purple, or pretty much any recording from the 70s or 80s you've heard and loved this snare.
0:40 😂😂😂 ahaha
Idk why but the double ply sounds pingy to me
yeah it sounds all overtones to me with very little snares. I hate the sound of it honestly, but that mirrors what I've always found on my snares, that i can't get a 2 ply to sound any good, and a single ply sounds great at any tuning.
Whats the difference between 1 ply and 2 ply drum heads?
1.
Good information. Thank you. Lord bless you.
Loving your comparison videos! I've been struggling with trying to settle on a snare tone I really like, and I'm not sure if its the tension and heads, or the shell, or the combo. The overtones are killer, and I want a deeper crispy tone. It's a work in progress haha I use the Aquarian Hi-Velocity on a Pearl Vision Snare (thinking about a metal shell or maple/walnut) and using Vicfirth 5b equivalents from Promark
With over 20 years playing experience. I can confirm this guy is godlike. 👌🏻
The thing gets really twisted when the head comes with extras like a dot, a ring or even both!
I liked the G2 until I started hearing a really loud bell sound, and once you hear it you can't unhear it! Beoiiiingk!
Like ur channel but would be helpful if you let us know when dif heads were played. Some text in vid wudve been cool.
G2 in the medium and high tunings had a nasty overtone to my ears. Maybe with a muffling ring it might sound better? I agree, that high tuning with a coated Ambassador is where all my snares lived in the '90s. I've almost done a 180 now and I am trying tons of different heads and tunings. Mostly low and low medium tuning with two ply and controlled sound heads. Thanks again for what you do. I find myself looking forward to Tuesdays now.
Hey yinz guys! Always love Tuesday afternoons 👍.
My first thought was, how bout a G12 and/or G14 in the mix?
I typed this a couple minutes before the end, so maybe you answered that somehow...
I just never tried it..
One of my latest snare builds was taking an old cheap steel shell and building it up with heavier rims and using a G12 batter. Wow... what a sound. I generally play jazz, so it's not what I need in those situations, but if I were to want/ need a heavy sound this would be it all day. The cheap, edgy, thin steel shell sound is controlled by the G12 batter such that you get enough of the over toney, edginess to cut, yet not so much that you want to just throw it in the trash because it sounds like a cheap snare drum. The black chrome rims and lugs on the chrome shell also look pretty cool as well!!!
Fds in the begining lol. Funny dumb sh .. stuff heh. Always good info. Great team work all around.🤘👽
i use different heads on my snares and like to try out various stuff. lately i use p77s on two of my metal snares and really like the sound of it at least behind the kit. on a starclassic b/b snare i own i like the ambassador x a lot and on a 14" x 8" steel snare i use a evans hydraulic at the moment which is more versatile than i thought. i tried out a evans ec reverse dot on another wooden snare and have to say i really don`t like the feel of it. it`s too rigid in the center and i don`really like the sound it produces.
great video as always, guys. this is one of my favorite drum channels here.
I recently replaced my snare head it was a two ply but it was all beat up. I was on a budget and the one ply was all I could do. WOW I had everything sounding good except now I have a tin can for a snare talk about a muffle job. Now I know
I am guessing this translates well to the UV1 and UV2 since the only thing that really changed is the coating.
Oh I am interested in the facts on this. I have just my ears to judge with. Thanks in advance!
Real helpful video comparison.
Look forward to the 1 versus2 ply snare reso comparison video.
I have 3 maple 14 by 5 snares , 2 with coated ambassadors and one with an G2, much prefer the ambassadors sound and feel.
Also have a steel 14 by 6 I played a pinstripe on it when I played live gigs because I hit hard live and wanted durability, it works but I don't like the loss of sensitivity, useless for ghost notes pretty much. I tried g1 but it felt more plastic sounding to me than ambassador so that will soon be going back to ambassador.
There's a good reason why they are the most popular head ever! Mostly used Vic firth 5a mainly nylon tip but some wood tip also.