@William Burns Nah, get a Brno if you want something really nice,CZ is OK but fit and finish not a patch on real Brnos that were all hand fitted,different level of craftsmanship. I had a gorgeous Mauser .22 (of top of head mm410b)that looked nicer than this Walther.It didnt shoot for shit though,my 50's Brno's eat it for breakfast,better timber,better build,better accuracy.
Please do that video idea, Ian! I wouldn't mind just listening to you on the different subject matters of American GI bring-backs even if you don't have props for it.
"Büchse" is specifically a long arm with a rifled barrel, and the term is used to differentiate from a "Flinte" (smoothbore/shotgun). "Gewehr" is just a general term for long arm. The term Büchse isn't commonly used in modern times and "Gewehr" is usually understood to mean "rifle". Fun fact, "Büchse" is a cognate of the English word "box".
@@B52Stratofortress1 They'd probably have to be like those super-elaborate ones the Roth-Steyr used (which Karl amusingly described as "Gucci stripper clips" in an InRangeTV Q&A once).
I love that you put so much historical background into your videos. You paint a vivid picture of the people and circumstances that produced these weapons. Fascinating stuff.
@@memeaids445 dont buy the cheapo polymer stocked stuff then. lots of really really nice wood stocked .22's (and other caliber} bolt actions are for sale from companies like CZ and Howa
oldesertguy AMEN!! I agree 110%, perhaps 200%! Black plastic is ugly, but the light brown, desert/Poop camouflage is even worse...unless one is in the desert, of course! I saw one of these for sale in Canada & I believe that the price was north of 5K-but I could be remembering incorrectly.
@@tommykirk3403 if you’re carrying your rifle around SO MUCH that its weight is an issue...I don’t know. Have you ever picked up a Lee Enfield or an M1 Garand? I’m proving YOUR...observation-you’re quite right, plastic is lighter than wood. It’s a subjective topic: I find a Walnut/Birch/Laminate stock more visually appealing and because I only shoot from a table, a heavy rifle is easier for me to use. Your situation and personal tastes are, (none of my business), & 110% as valid as mine. I think it’s safe to assume you’re not military so you must put in a lot of hunting hours? You want a lighter rifle than every one that’s in my safe, except for my grandpa’s Model 1894...which has provided many meals in its time. You’re right, wood is heavier than plastic, usually much stronger and so much nicer to look at, (in MY opinion). I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO SUDDENLY AGREE with me. I respect your preference for "composite", (aka plastic), stocks. I just don’t share it.
@@frufru0071 wood is cooler than plastic. So much so, that even some active soldiers in my time preferred G3s with wooden stocks an guards over the more modern, plastic successors. I was one of those willing to carry the extra hundreds of grams 😉
The reason behind attacking squirrels is all the laughter that happens when Germans attempt to pronounce squirrel around native English speaking people.
@@GunsNGames1 Germans, even Germans whose English is otherwise very good, notoriously have a hard time saying "squirrel". They keep wanting to put a V sound in it somewhere, and it just doesn't work. This was supposedly used as a test to flush out deep-cover German agents in England during the war, although as with many such stories, I have my doubts that it ever really happened.
@@blank-dr9df If you're in the US, no idea - at least not with new ones. It's tough with all their sanctions, bans and import restrictions going on. Maybe a used one from a while back? But I can imagine that they're quite rare. Outside US of A, if your government is more China friendly, they're not that hard to come by, 'cause they're still in production from all I know.
If you do some shopping around, there are .22 conversion kits for K98k's. Basically a .22 barrel insert, a replacement floorplate with a .22 mag well, and a .22 bolt. I see them come up fairly often on Gunbroker, just be prepared to pay a lot for one. Most of the kits I've seen go for around $900-$1200, so it will take a fair bit of shooting to make your money back.
Two years ago I attended a Kleinkaliber-shooting course at my university here in vienna (austria) and one of the rifles we had available was one of these. But it had quite some work done on it so that required each round to be put in the chamber manually and the sights were exchanged for diopter sights to better fit the whole point of „professional“ target shooting. When I used it it was just a weird rifle amongst a bunch of others that better fit the whole .22 target-shooting pattern, but now that I know the history behind it, it definitely is much cooler than it was. But I still wouldn’t choose it if I would go target shooting there again - it’s barrel was exactly like you would imagine the original barrel of a much used 80 year old gun to be and so it was rather inaccurate.
cool to know they only made about 5500 of them. My Walther KKW is 5081..so if the serials were indeed sequential, its pretty close to the one in the video, being 4998. Thanks for this video, Ian! Always wanted to know a little more about these, i got it as a pair with a '42 Mauser.
The three guys who share a cleaning rod: "What could be more embarrassing?" Two french scouts in a kayak: "Fix rifles for aquatic terrain locomotion!" One American: "Y'all are so dumb" and proceeds to file something down inside of his rifle.
I would love seeing a video of yours about guns that brought back from WW2 (and other wars?) from different areas of occupation. I'm usually into the mechanics of guns, I love seeing the various systems but this ought be a very interesting topic.
Ian - issued cleaning rod for KKW was different than K98K (smaller bore diameter on .22 than 7.9) and slings were different as well, but they did take the K98 sling.
I dunno, what it was in the west, but on eastern front - ration chocolade (one with the amph) was among the most valuable trophies. Right after the boots.
First, Ian, let me say that I watch all of your videos and really enjoy them. I'm a retired law enforcement firearms instructor and have always been keenly interested in firearms, ever since I was a youngster. Over twenty years ago, I bought an MAS Model 45. I bought it and ten five round magazines used, in like new condition, for $100. The MAS doesn't have a high quality blued finish or high grade wood stock but it is a very nice Mauser action .22 rifle. I've always found it to be very accurate and reliable. I'm shocked at the prices that these rifles fetch in today's market.
The fact that the WZ48 exists always amused me. I understand, Communist Poland, but a completely unrelated action on a pseudo Mosin stock? One wonders what's the story behind it.
Dear Ian, in 1943/44 my grandfather was at a fair in Germany and there was a Wehrmacht sponsored attraction where you could shoot an MG42 with "blue bullets" according to my grandfather. Do you know anything more about this - unfortunately I don't have a chance to ask my grandfather, since he passed away years ago, but do you think it was an actual MG42 or a version, that was a tweaked design for civilian usage like the KKW? Thank you for your time and all those fantastic informative videos you provide us with.
Steiner Arts idk of you got this answer but if you watch a video from British Pathè they show the fair you are talking about and the “Blue ammo” was the colour of the label or just a wide line of blue on box that held the rounds. Dummy rounds were red tipped that was just wood so he probably shot actual rounds, just the packaging had blue on it.
Love Forgotten Weapons because it does much more than just talk about the weapons... It's also the why, who and the when that put the weapons into perspective.
Oddly, German rifleman accuracy standards were always more generous than British or US, also G98k was generaly less accurate than Enfield and Springfield.
Gewehr is the german "general term" for a gun that is not a handgun. (Pistols, Revolvers) There are two kinds of "Gewehre" . The shotgun is called a "Schrotflinte" or simply "Flinte" and a rifle ist called a "Büchse". A gun with both, a smoothbore and a rifled barrel will be called "Büchsflinte".... (No, I'm not kidding you... that's the plain truth in german language ) 👍😁
I actually have one, the guy that had it died. I bought it from his daughter for 50 Euro. It shoots even better than it looks, I love it. The stories I heard here in Germany differ slightly from yours Ian. Great channel Ian love your content👍
@@Kikker861 the walther one has a different type of bolt, like a miniature g98 bolt with the claw and all, but this one causes misfires, we don't know why really, we tried stuff and it didn't work it out. The gustloff one is indentical with the one Ian showed, it was sporterized but we reworked the stock. They both work quit well honestly, but i prefere my N°9 .22lr Lee Enfield
NORINCO made a copy of this KKW rifle labeled as the JW-15 and came with a detachable 5- rounds of .22LR ammo. The magazine is hard to come by but NORINCO owners said that the magazine from a .22LR CZ-452 rifle also works with this. Accuracy of the NORINCO was surprisingly very good. Price was about $180+_ 5-five years ago. If this NORINCO rifle was included in the importation ban to the USA, ' am not sure..
My Dad brought one back but without the stock, he made a stock for it and I still have it today. This one is marked Fluss-Stahl Krupp-Essen Mod W625B, The rifle still works fine and is accurate.
I would love to get that video about what soldiers were more likely to bring back as souvenirs based on where they were stationed and where they lived in the US.
Neato, what are the odds of this video coming up today when I have one arriving later today! Should be up on my site for sale soon, just not before I get to shoot it some. :)
Silly Ian, you missed the second locking lug on the other side of the locking collar. Still, cool stuff that mirrors the reason why I still love my CZ 452 Ultra Lux. It's a nice .22 rifle that mimics much of the handling of a Mauser type sporter. I still consider it a shame that even the largely similar model 455 was discontinued in favor of the cheaper, shorter action model 457. One of things that was nice about the 452 and 455 was the longer bolt stroke which made it feel more like a 'real rifle' and arguably more comfortable for a reasonably sized adult to use vs. the tiny stroke of most bolt action .22s.
At time 5:03 look at the front sight. Looks like it is drifted out to the left. Could be due to rough handling or there is something wrong with the barrel bore's alignment requiring drifting it over to sight the gun in. I have years ago seen a training rifle of that general type so they were around in the USA.
China's company, NORINCO made an exact copy of these and with a removeable 5-shot magazine. Price was about US$125..give or take. It is doubtful if this will be available in the US.. courtesy of Trump's US-China trade row.
I have a Gustloff built trainer here in the U.S. and love it. It's as accurate as any other .22 i've put it against. Sadly, the original stock was gone when we acquired it in the 70's so I currently have it bedded in an M44 stock which works very well. I've only seen one other in all the years and it was selling for $900 USD in 2016
Looking at the similarities between the two rifles, I have a feeling that the KKW was built on K98 stocks. The K98 disassembly disk on the KKW, its a time and money waste. The use of 2nd choice and reject stocks and excess K98 parts of superseded models that would be trashed would drive the production costs down.
I think the disc was more of a "it's a replica" reasoning then simply because trash stocks getting salvaged. I don't know but I think that disc would be one of the last pieces to add to a K98k before it's done so any reject stocks would've been sorted out before the disc was added. Again, I do not know the process they used to make the K98k, it's just what I though of when I saw the thing.
Pistole 08 from Georg Luger and Hugo Borchardt was a good thing to own for a soldier , worth like gold after the WWII . Anyone want to have one of these . You already did a video of those !! :))
Seems like a waste of material and production capacity to keep making .22 rifles until the end of ww2, I would of thought production should of been ceased 1939
Germany most likely had a crap load of .22 ammo laying about so it's probable that they kept them in production as a sort of "last ditch" rifle and a .22 bullet is just as lethal as a 8mm Mauser bullet when you think about it.
@@ForgottenWeapons More common was the insert barrel- Einstecklauf Erma Mod. EL 24. I know from german veterans, that they were sometimes used by snipers
Each compartment of the Party apparatus doggedly stuck to it’s own isolated compartment of power. This one belonged to the SA, and they weren’t giving up anything in their care. Hitler most likely wanted all his lieutenants in competition with each other so he could stay on top.
@@ForgottenWeapons also, they still had a need for cheaply teaching new recruits to shoot. .22 is cheaper than 8mm, so it kind of makes sense to use these rifles for initial marksmanship training throughout the war.
It’d be really interesting to hear more about the different weapons GI’s brought back and the different rationales behind their choices. I think most people know about sporterized arisakas, and of course there are the more trophy items like officers pistols, but this is the first time I’ve heard of US soldiers bringing back 22.s to use as varmint guns. Very interesting. It’d also be cool to learn more about what kind of weapons other countries’ soldiers liked to capture and use when their specific governments allowed it.
My dad brought back a Luger and some sort of Schuetzen rifle. He traded it off after a few years, probably because ammunition was hard to acquire and he wanted a Winchester Model 42 shotgun (baby Model 12 in .410). Both those guns are still in the family. Sadly I have no memories of the target rifle. He lived in Chicago at the time.
I own a very good reproduction of this rifle, made by NORINCO. The appeareance of the rifle and the boltaction is 1:1 and it's chambered in .22lr as well. The only difference to the genuine one is the detachable eight rounds box-magazine.
I love that I always learn something about something other than guns in these videos, it always combines my love of history and my childish delight in guns. Just to be clear I'm not saying liking guns is childish, I'm just saying my love for guns has a child like enthusiasm (I was told off by a mate whilst writing this :( )
I only like guns because of video games but I love learning about the mechanisms and behind the scenes stuff so Forgotten Weapons immediately won me over.
@Llama Bing I know, what you mean, mate and I agree. I'm a military historian, an ammo-collector and a shooter in several gun clubs. So, don' t worry, you' re not alone..... 👍👍👍😁😁
I have several pre war mauser commercial 22 rifles ES350B ES350 mm410B etc . Very high quality and still very accurate. I adore and prize them. Beautiful and very functional.
Until now my worst "didn't buy it" was an all original 1941 Johnson I could have picked up for $250 in the late seventies. Shortly after the Berlin wall came down my favorite gun shop had a case of these selling for $135 each. At the time that was more than I wanted to spend on a .22. Today, the empty, Nazi marked, case would bring more than that at auction. Shucks... and other comments.
I don't know when it happened but the Mauser KKW and thus the MAS-45 have removeable box magazines. The MAS-45 also has an aperture rear sight. Very good guns, I found a screaming deal at an estate auction for one, I just wish my eyesight was still good enough to shoot iron sights to their potential.
Imagine a government program designed to get people together for shooting sports, even a program that goes as far as to set pricing limits on the very nice rifles so that basically anyone can afford to get in on the sport.
Interesting how the bolt travel wasn't made the same as the service rifle, I mean mechanically it'd be pointless but to simulate the real deal could have been helpful for developing muscle memory, especially if they'd managed to make a magazine feed
My neighbor's dad had two of these when I was a kid. He was one of the soldiers in a unit tasked with inventorying remaining German rifles and other small arms right after the war. As a reward for his work, he was able to bring back two of these .22 rifles. One was a Walthers that, from memory, looked and performed identically to the Walthers model single shot rifle shown in the video. The other was a stripper clip fed semiauto version made by BSW. It had a tiny clip that held, as I remember it, either seven or eight rounds, and it performed the same as the KAR98K stripper clip. I know he had at least 10 of these stripper clips, and my friend and I shot both the single shot and semiauto versions in Boy Scout target matches to get our target shooting merit badges. Both were in excellent condition, never having been issued, and they were great shooting guns. Unfortunately, both my friend and his dad are no longer with us, and I have no idea what happened to these rifles. At the time, we had no idea that these weren't just cooler versions of our JC Higgins .22 rifles.
@Superdude70 Okay, then it's your understanding of the word "production". Simply because it was never put in series production doesn't mean it was never made at all.
Also, to add, Haenel built circus guns (magazine fed bolt action 4.4mm air rifles) and during the Nazi reign they built K98-lookalike's to be used by HJ. This to familiarize German children with the concept of the K98 in preparation for future military service, reason being that even in the 30's with the apparent advent of the automatic battle and assault rifles entering service, Hitler still believed that K98 was all they needed.
Can you do one of the (boys mark 1 tank rifle) Australian. and the Gewehr T anti tank rifle 13.2 mm both are in our Aussie war memorial! Believe the Australians made a anti material rifle also prototype. One had a 100 bullet holes in it and the barrel was bent. Go to Australia mate, have a look in the Canberra war memorial! Most of the weopons there still have mud on them!
You shouldn’t have to edit out the Swaztika. As a 12th generation Jew, I really don’t find it offensive. It’s a part of history, and if Germany finds it offensive, then too damn bad. They shouldn’t be allowed too. Again, it’s a part of history, no channel, game, movie or television series should have to edit it out for peace of mind. You’re not flaunting it around or chanting or supporting nazism. So really, stop editing it out. If anything, restrictions from UA-cam or any other content distributer that force contend uploaders to ban such things, really make it seem like they’re holocaust deniers. So please, stop editing out swaztikas
@@ForgottenWeapons I will complain to who i wish. especially if i am a subscriber. Especially if your a channel about history, maybe you should care a bit more about history...and a little less about money.
Hi Ian. My dad has a 1937 year mauser kar 98k, the standard german rifle during ww2. How expensive it could be. It works just fine. Also it's in very good condition.
If it is all matching, I could imagine $1500 and above. If not, you are probably looking around $1000. It will depend on the person buying it, I have seen people ask $14k for a k98k, guaranteed it was a rarer one, and I have seen a death head SS rune k98k sell for $750.
I bought the Simpson Book after seeing the F W review. It is the single finest firearms book EVER written (and I have 700). Buy it if you have any interest in these firearms!
There actually are .22lr conversion kits available for the Mauser 98 ("Einsteckläufe" in German, i.e. smaller diameter barrels to insert into the rifle barrel), but they're quite rare since there's practically no market/demand for it anymore.
Yeah but this rifle was also supposed to be cheap so every young boy could have one. Also it was supposed to look like a civilian fad to not alarm Germany's neighbors.
J G the tooling and stuff would have already been payed off, so one would assume that the cost would be relatively low. I do give the latter suggestion more credence, as Versailles might still be in effect.
That's gotta be the nicest .22 I've ever seen.
Its a .22 k98 basically so you can't really go wrong
That would be a great gun to own. Locally I can't own rifles over .22 cal so that would be a nice kar98k representation
Seen the HJ 22 k98,s ?
@@mrijk1946 nope, didn't know they existed?
@William Burns Nah, get a Brno if you want something really nice,CZ is OK but fit and finish not a patch on real Brnos that were all hand fitted,different level of craftsmanship.
I had a gorgeous Mauser .22 (of top of head mm410b)that looked nicer than this Walther.It didnt shoot for shit though,my 50's Brno's eat it for breakfast,better timber,better build,better accuracy.
Please do that video idea, Ian! I wouldn't mind just listening to you on the different subject matters of American GI bring-backs even if you don't have props for it.
Small pedantic comment, "Lang für Büchse" doesn't mean long for shooting but long rifle. .22lr is .22lfb in germany.
Ahhh I assumed lfb would stand for lange flobert.
Danke aber Deutschen sollen Waffen nie wieder haben.....
Huh, the more you know.
That is actually very important to know, not pedantic at all.
@@doctim111 . Zu spät.
Kal .22 Lang für Büchsen (.22lfB) translates to "long for rifles"
doesn't "rifle" translate to "gewehr"? what's the difference between "büchse" and "gewehr"? 🤔
Valyasochka a buchse is more like a sportrifle, I think
Just means .22 Long Rifle
"Büchse" is specifically a long arm with a rifled barrel, and the term is used to differentiate from a "Flinte" (smoothbore/shotgun). "Gewehr" is just a general term for long arm. The term Büchse isn't commonly used in modern times and "Gewehr" is usually understood to mean "rifle".
Fun fact, "Büchse" is a cognate of the English word "box".
TheFatGeneral I don’t think “Büchse” only stand for “Sport Rifle” cuz Panzerbüchse 39 and Granatbüchse 39 literally are not “Sport Rifles”
Honestly, a stripper clip fed .22lr k98k would be awesome.
I doubt stripper clips for .22LR would work that well. But if it could be done, Germany would be the one to make it happen.
@@B52Stratofortress1 They'd probably have to be like those super-elaborate ones the Roth-Steyr used (which Karl amusingly described as "Gucci stripper clips" in an InRangeTV Q&A once).
I love that you put so much historical background into your videos. You paint a vivid picture of the people and circumstances that produced these weapons. Fascinating stuff.
That looks nicer than a lot of brand new .22's to me
Modern design is a fuckin joke
@@memeaids445 dont buy the cheapo polymer stocked stuff then. lots of really really nice wood stocked .22's (and other caliber} bolt actions are for sale from companies like CZ and Howa
Beautiful weapon. You can't beat polished blued steel and walnut.
oldesertguy AMEN!! I agree 110%, perhaps 200%! Black plastic is ugly, but the light brown, desert/Poop camouflage is even worse...unless one is in the desert, of course! I saw one of these for sale in Canada & I believe that the price was north of 5K-but I could be remembering incorrectly.
@@tommykirk3403 if you’re carrying your rifle around SO MUCH that its weight is an issue...I don’t know. Have you ever picked up a Lee Enfield or an M1 Garand? I’m proving YOUR...observation-you’re quite right, plastic is lighter than wood. It’s a subjective topic: I find a Walnut/Birch/Laminate stock more visually appealing and because I only shoot from a table, a heavy rifle is easier for me to use. Your situation and personal tastes are, (none of my business), & 110% as valid as mine. I think it’s safe to assume you’re not military so you must put in a lot of hunting hours? You want a lighter rifle than every one that’s in my safe, except for my grandpa’s Model 1894...which has provided many meals in its time. You’re right, wood is heavier than plastic, usually much stronger and so much nicer to look at, (in MY opinion). I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO SUDDENLY AGREE with me. I respect your preference for "composite", (aka plastic), stocks. I just don’t share it.
@@frufru0071 wood is cooler than plastic. So much so, that even some active soldiers in my time preferred G3s with wooden stocks an guards over the more modern, plastic successors.
I was one of those willing to carry the extra hundreds of grams 😉
That was made to defeat squirrels panzer units
The reason behind attacking squirrels is all the laughter that happens when Germans attempt to pronounce squirrel around native English speaking people.
@@SlavicCelery what happens? I'm not a native speaker :P
@@GunsNGames1 Germans, even Germans whose English is otherwise very good, notoriously have a hard time saying "squirrel". They keep wanting to put a V sound in it somewhere, and it just doesn't work.
This was supposedly used as a test to flush out deep-cover German agents in England during the war, although as with many such stories, I have my doubts that it ever really happened.
I have a K98k yet I would love one in 22 as it would be a lot cheaper to shoot.
Norinco JW25.
It's basically a CZ 455 (magazine fed 5rd. .22lr) in a Kar98k replica stock. Cheap, looks great and shoots great.
Bright Pornchaser good places to get one?
@@blank-dr9df
If you're in the US, no idea - at least not with new ones. It's tough with all their sanctions, bans and import restrictions going on. Maybe a used one from a while back? But I can imagine that they're quite rare.
Outside US of A, if your government is more China friendly, they're not that hard to come by, 'cause they're still in production from all I know.
@@ThisGuy.... ...no reloading?
If you do some shopping around, there are .22 conversion kits for K98k's. Basically a .22 barrel insert, a replacement floorplate with a .22 mag well, and a .22 bolt. I see them come up fairly often on Gunbroker, just be prepared to pay a lot for one. Most of the kits I've seen go for around $900-$1200, so it will take a fair bit of shooting to make your money back.
Ian does a video on a German training rifle and manages to include it as a French training rifle! Well played, sir, well played!
This has got to be one of the nicest looking .22lr I’ve ever seen. Thanks very much for sharing-yet another-fantastic video.
also how bad ass would this be for blitzkrieg on squirrel
Best comment ever
Two years ago I attended a Kleinkaliber-shooting course at my university here in vienna (austria) and one of the rifles we had available was one of these.
But it had quite some work done on it so that required each round to be put in the chamber manually and the sights were exchanged for diopter sights to better fit the whole point of „professional“ target shooting.
When I used it it was just a weird rifle amongst a bunch of others that better fit the whole .22 target-shooting pattern, but now that I know the history behind it, it definitely is much cooler than it was.
But I still wouldn’t choose it if I would go target shooting there again - it’s barrel was exactly like you would imagine the original barrel of a much used 80 year old gun to be and so it was rather inaccurate.
cool to know they only made about 5500 of them. My Walther KKW is 5081..so if the serials were indeed sequential, its pretty close to the one in the video, being 4998. Thanks for this video, Ian! Always wanted to know a little more about these, i got it as a pair with a '42 Mauser.
The three guys who share a cleaning rod: "What could be more embarrassing?"
Two french scouts in a kayak: "Fix rifles for aquatic terrain locomotion!"
One American: "Y'all are so dumb" and proceeds to file something down inside of his rifle.
"Baka" Says the Japanese soldier, adjusting the anti-aircraft sights on his rifle.
@@kategrant2728 Good one.
I think the French "touching rifle tips" that Ian just covered is a bit more embarrassing.
Someone please tell me the origin of the American one :)
@@nicholaspatton5590 i need that too
I would love seeing a video of yours about guns that brought back from WW2 (and other wars?) from different areas of occupation. I'm usually into the mechanics of guns, I love seeing the various systems but this ought be a very interesting topic.
Never fails to have an interesting subject this channel, great stuff.
Ian - issued cleaning rod for KKW was different than K98K (smaller bore diameter on .22 than 7.9) and slings were different as well, but they did take the K98 sling.
"What souvenirs that came back by geography and why." Would be an awesome video.
Dude, hell yeah. Let's see who's granddad was the best at looting!
@@camelthegamer7165 I have a Walther PP that my grandfather brought bacK. He was from Savannah, GA
That would be awesome
I dunno, what it was in the west, but on eastern front - ration chocolade (one with the amph) was among the most valuable trophies. Right after the boots.
First, Ian, let me say that I watch all of your videos and really enjoy them. I'm a retired law enforcement firearms instructor and have always been keenly interested in firearms, ever since I was a youngster. Over twenty years ago, I bought an MAS Model 45. I bought it and ten five round magazines used, in like new condition, for $100. The MAS doesn't have a high quality blued finish or high grade wood stock but it is a very nice Mauser action .22 rifle. I've always found it to be very accurate and reliable. I'm shocked at the prices that these rifles fetch in today's market.
Your bring-back theory makes sense. My father-in-law was from SD/MN and brought back a Mauser ES340 .22 as apposed to an 8mm Mauser rifle.
As always Ian, straight from the top drawer, keep them coming please. Thanks for sharing.
I have a Polish Nagant training rifle in 22lr. Its single shot only. Accuracy is incredible!!
The fact that the WZ48 exists always amused me. I understand, Communist Poland, but a completely unrelated action on a pseudo Mosin stock? One wonders what's the story behind it.
Dear Ian, in 1943/44 my grandfather was at a fair in Germany and there was a Wehrmacht sponsored attraction where you could shoot an MG42 with "blue bullets" according to my grandfather. Do you know anything more about this - unfortunately I don't have a chance to ask my grandfather, since he passed away years ago, but do you think it was an actual MG42 or a version, that was a tweaked design for civilian usage like the KKW?
Thank you for your time and all those fantastic informative videos you provide us with.
Steiner Arts idk of you got this answer but if you watch a video from British Pathè they show the fair you are talking about and the “Blue ammo” was the colour of the label or just a wide line of blue on box that held the rounds. Dummy rounds were red tipped that was just wood so he probably shot actual rounds, just the packaging had blue on it.
They were probably wooden practice bullets for use in short ranges. Full-power military ammunition would require a full-sized military rifle range.
@Steiner Arts nice
Beautiful prewar quality, bet that shoots well .
Love Forgotten Weapons because it does much more than just talk about the weapons... It's also the why, who and the when that put the weapons into perspective.
Want to be a real german? Take a sip from your beer everytime Ian says 'same'
Don't forget the Schnapps 🙂
And of course the "Struuudel"..... 😁
(Sorry, but I had to do this classic "Sergeant Schultz" saying 👍😂😂😂)
Identical for which i assume helped train younger shooters to make military training easier/faster
Shhhh. Don't let ze french know.
Oddly, German rifleman accuracy standards were always more generous than British or US, also G98k was generaly less accurate than Enfield and Springfield.
Pretty.
Thx for the vid 👍
9:48 - this could be difficault at the end of the war
6:29 „Kaliber 22 lang für Büchsen“ actually means ”caliber 22 long for rifles“ because Büchse is the specific Term for a Gewehr with a rifled barrel.
What Gewehr then?
Rifle-no fucks?
Gewehr is the german "general term" for a gun that is not a handgun. (Pistols, Revolvers)
There are two kinds of "Gewehre" . The shotgun is called a "Schrotflinte" or simply "Flinte" and a rifle ist called a "Büchse".
A gun with both, a smoothbore and a rifled barrel will be called "Büchsflinte"....
(No, I'm not kidding you... that's the plain truth in german language ) 👍😁
Tempting, this one is hard to resist bidding on and I do love .22's
I actually have one, the guy that had it died. I bought it from his daughter for 50 Euro. It shoots even better than it looks, I love it. The stories I heard here in Germany differ slightly from yours Ian. Great channel Ian love your content👍
Really interesting background. Thanks Ian.
I got 2 of those
One from Walther and one from Gustloff
How do they compare?
Your gay uncles are so cool!
(Kidding! It's just a joke.)
@@Kikker861 the walther one has a different type of bolt, like a miniature g98 bolt with the claw and all, but this one causes misfires, we don't know why really, we tried stuff and it didn't work it out.
The gustloff one is indentical with the one Ian showed, it was sporterized but we reworked the stock.
They both work quit well honestly, but i prefere my N°9 .22lr Lee Enfield
@@le47emechromosome39 It's interesting that they aren't so reliable considering that they're based on a bolt-action some would swear by.
@@Kikker861 and the one that doesn't quit work is realy a mini version of the g98 bolt, has little in commun with to one shown in the video
NORINCO made a copy of this KKW rifle labeled as the JW-15 and came with a detachable 5- rounds of .22LR ammo.
The magazine is hard to come by but NORINCO owners said that the magazine from a .22LR CZ-452 rifle also works with this.
Accuracy of the NORINCO was surprisingly very good.
Price was about $180+_ 5-five years ago.
If this NORINCO rifle was included in the importation ban to the USA, ' am not sure..
Leave it to Ian to do an episode on a German 22 and bring the conversation around to the French.
Büchse means rifle. So "Caliber .22 long for rifles" aka ".22 long rifle"
My Dad brought one back but without the stock, he made a stock for it and I still have it today. This one is marked Fluss-Stahl Krupp-Essen Mod W625B, The rifle still works fine and is accurate.
Ian I can’t overstate how much I love the captions you do, but for this video the options are Korean or nothing which is a little odd 😂
And, eventually picked up by Norinco as the JW25 - which is also a nice little rifle.
I would love to get that video about what soldiers were more likely to bring back as souvenirs based on where they were stationed and where they lived in the US.
Neato, what are the odds of this video coming up today when I have one arriving later today! Should be up on my site for sale soon, just not before I get to shoot it some. :)
"Sir, why do we need bayonet lugs on our competition rifles?"
Silly Ian, you missed the second locking lug on the other side of the locking collar. Still, cool stuff that mirrors the reason why I still love my CZ 452 Ultra Lux. It's a nice .22 rifle that mimics much of the handling of a Mauser type sporter. I still consider it a shame that even the largely similar model 455 was discontinued in favor of the cheaper, shorter action model 457. One of things that was nice about the 452 and 455 was the longer bolt stroke which made it feel more like a 'real rifle' and arguably more comfortable for a reasonably sized adult to use vs. the tiny stroke of most bolt action .22s.
Great Job Ian! Excited for book!(Signature addition)
“Edition “ ? 💉🇩🇪
Mr Diplomat yes
At time 5:03 look at the front sight. Looks like it is drifted out to the left. Could be due to rough handling or there is something wrong with the barrel bore's alignment requiring drifting it over to sight the gun in.
I have years ago seen a training rifle of that general type so they were around in the USA.
I can't even begin to fathom this mans knowledge of firearms and I'm an armourer.......
My buddy's father had a different idea as to what competitive Nazi shooting in Germany was. Interesting video as always.
Your buddy's father sounds like a nice guy to shoot with, are these "competitive shooting competitions" still ongoing?
A shame that history must be blurred out. Soon we'll forget it ever happened and soon after we'll repeat it.
UA-cam will demonetize the video if I don't blur it. Complain to them, not me.
Fantastic video as always Ian!
I wish they would put those back into production. That would be a cool little plinker for anyones collection
China's company, NORINCO made an exact copy of these and with a removeable 5-shot magazine.
Price was about US$125..give or take.
It is doubtful if this will be available in the US.. courtesy of Trump's US-China trade row.
I have a Gustloff built trainer here in the U.S. and love it. It's as accurate as any other .22 i've put it against. Sadly, the original stock was gone when we acquired it in the 70's so I currently have it bedded in an M44 stock which works very well. I've only seen one other in all the years and it was selling for $900 USD in 2016
Looking at the similarities between the two rifles, I have a feeling that the KKW was built on K98 stocks. The K98 disassembly disk on the KKW, its a time and money waste. The use of 2nd choice and reject stocks and excess K98 parts of superseded models that would be trashed would drive the production costs down.
I think the disc was more of a "it's a replica" reasoning then simply because trash stocks getting salvaged. I don't know but I think that disc would be one of the last pieces to add to a K98k before it's done so any reject stocks would've been sorted out before the disc was added.
Again, I do not know the process they used to make the K98k, it's just what I though of when I saw the thing.
The Idea was to produce a high quality training - target rifle to sell. It was to be a thing of pride of ownership .
@@fg42t2 I would be with you if the wooden stock could have a K98 action tossed into it, but the receiver area would need additional machining.
Pistole 08 from Georg Luger and Hugo Borchardt was a good thing to own for a soldier , worth like gold after the WWII . Anyone want to have one of these . You already did a video of those !! :))
Robert Simpsons book on this subject is a most excellent resource and a great read.
I really enjoy these history-centered videos.
Got a tu 33/40 recently thats basically this but with a detachable mag. I quite like the thing
I ve seen a norinco Jw short barrel rifle copy of this thing. Very neat but discontinued a few years ago.
still available in Australia via the importer who has the JW distribution, retail is about $500aud
@@dannyryan1206 That s really cool. price is a bit high but I guess gun law in Aus is pretty tight.
I saw the title and immediately thought really weird things involving the movie Hard Target and similars.
10/10 Would love a video on the souvenir rifles.
Seems like a waste of material and production capacity to keep making .22 rifles until the end of ww2, I would of thought production should of been ceased 1939
Germany was really good at wasting production capacity in WW2.
Germany most likely had a crap load of .22 ammo laying about so it's probable that they kept them in production as a sort of "last ditch" rifle and a .22 bullet is just as lethal as a 8mm Mauser bullet when you think about it.
@@ForgottenWeapons More common was the insert barrel- Einstecklauf Erma Mod. EL 24.
I know from german veterans, that they were sometimes used by snipers
Each compartment of the Party apparatus doggedly stuck to it’s own isolated compartment of power. This one belonged to the SA, and they weren’t giving up anything in their care. Hitler most likely wanted all his lieutenants in competition with each other so he could stay on top.
@@ForgottenWeapons also, they still had a need for cheaply teaching new recruits to shoot. .22 is cheaper than 8mm, so it kind of makes sense to use these rifles for initial marksmanship training throughout the war.
There's also an air rifle copy of the Mauser army rifle, made by Diana for training purposes.
It’d be really interesting to hear more about the different weapons GI’s brought back and the different rationales behind their choices. I think most people know about sporterized arisakas, and of course there are the more trophy items like officers pistols, but this is the first time I’ve heard of US soldiers bringing back 22.s to use as varmint guns. Very interesting.
It’d also be cool to learn more about what kind of weapons other countries’ soldiers liked to capture and use when their specific governments allowed it.
My dad brought back a Luger and some sort of Schuetzen rifle. He traded it off after a few years, probably because ammunition was hard to acquire and he wanted a Winchester Model 42 shotgun (baby Model 12 in .410). Both those guns are still in the family. Sadly I have no memories of the target rifle. He lived in Chicago at the time.
Forgotten Weapons: Guns I never knew existed, but now want to buy
The truth!
I own a very good reproduction of this rifle, made by NORINCO. The appeareance of the rifle and the boltaction is 1:1 and it's chambered in .22lr as well.
The only difference to the genuine one is the detachable eight rounds box-magazine.
I love that I always learn something about something other than guns in these videos, it always combines my love of history and my childish delight in guns. Just to be clear I'm not saying liking guns is childish, I'm just saying my love for guns has a child like enthusiasm (I was told off by a mate whilst writing this :( )
I only like guns because of video games but I love learning about the mechanisms and behind the scenes stuff so Forgotten Weapons immediately won me over.
@Llama Bing I know, what you mean, mate and I agree. I'm a military historian, an ammo-collector and a shooter in several gun clubs.
So, don' t worry, you' re not alone..... 👍👍👍😁😁
I have several pre war mauser commercial 22 rifles ES350B ES350 mm410B etc . Very high quality and still very accurate. I adore and prize them. Beautiful and very functional.
Until now my worst "didn't buy it" was an all original 1941 Johnson I could have picked up for $250 in the late seventies. Shortly after the Berlin wall came down my favorite gun shop had a case of these selling for $135 each. At the time that was more than I wanted to spend on a .22. Today, the empty, Nazi marked, case would bring more than that at auction. Shucks... and other comments.
Walther .22lr k98 mauser. Thats awesome.
Please follow up with a video about what weapons were looted by GIs.
They looted everything that was not poured in concrete and weighing below 5-tons..
I don't know when it happened but the Mauser KKW and thus the MAS-45 have removeable box magazines. The MAS-45 also has an aperture rear sight. Very good guns, I found a screaming deal at an estate auction for one, I just wish my eyesight was still good enough to shoot iron sights to their potential.
Imagine a government program designed to get people together for shooting sports, even a program that goes as far as to set pricing limits on the very nice rifles so that basically anyone can afford to get in on the sport.
Please do a video about the trends of American souvenir taking.
Interesting how the bolt travel wasn't made the same as the service rifle, I mean mechanically it'd be pointless but to simulate the real deal could have been helpful for developing muscle memory, especially if they'd managed to make a magazine feed
Are you going to look at the Carcano Youth rifle, should you get the chance? Would be interesting to do an evolution from pre war to late war designs.
".22 lang für Büchse (lfB)" translated into English means: ".22 long rifle (lr)".
AFAIK there WAS a magazine-fed KKW, perhaps more expensive.
My neighbor's dad had two of these when I was a kid. He was one of the soldiers in a unit tasked with inventorying remaining German rifles and other small arms right after the war. As a reward for his work, he was able to bring back two of these .22 rifles. One was a Walthers that, from memory, looked and performed identically to the Walthers model single shot rifle shown in the video. The other was a stripper clip fed semiauto version made by BSW. It had a tiny clip that held, as I remember it, either seven or eight rounds, and it performed the same as the KAR98K stripper clip. I know he had at least 10 of these stripper clips, and my friend and I shot both the single shot and semiauto versions in Boy Scout target matches to get our target shooting merit badges. Both were in excellent condition, never having been issued, and they were great shooting guns. Unfortunately, both my friend and his dad are no longer with us, and I have no idea what happened to these rifles. At the time, we had no idea that these weren't just cooler versions of our JC Higgins .22 rifles.
@Superdude70 That's not what he said. You need to listen again.
@@sarjim4381 I believe he said patents were awarded for a stripper clip fed model but it was considered unprofitable to proceed with production.
@@davidlatorre9829 Which is not the same as none were ever produced. Since I shot one in 1957-58, I know at least some were produced.
@Superdude70 Okay, then it's your understanding of the word "production". Simply because it was never put in series production doesn't mean it was never made at all.
A good .22 is a valuable tool for anybody who lives in a rural area, regardless of their financial situation.
channel Gunsofftheworld recently uploaded a shooting video with one of these
Also, to add, Haenel built circus guns (magazine fed bolt action 4.4mm air rifles) and during the Nazi reign they built K98-lookalike's to be used by HJ.
This to familiarize German children with the concept of the K98 in preparation for future military service, reason being that even in the 30's with the apparent advent of the automatic battle and assault rifles entering service, Hitler still believed that K98 was all they needed.
The souvenir guns video sound pretty interesting.
you know somthing is up when your goverment hands you bayonet lugged ,,sporting rifles'' hahahah
Interesting history and that rifle it's in a very good cndition; the interview with Nicole Wiley was also very informative and interesting IMO.
Another .22 military training rifle!
Sorry for drooling.
Take a shot every time he says “K98k.”
Could you please do a review on a Springfield Model 87M US Training rifle (Gill Rifle/Gun). Tks..!!
The KKW: A Mauser from another... house... r...?
Can you do one of the (boys mark 1 tank rifle) Australian. and the Gewehr T anti tank rifle 13.2 mm both are in our Aussie war memorial! Believe the Australians made a anti material rifle also prototype. One had a 100 bullet holes in it and the barrel was bent. Go to Australia mate, have a look in the Canberra war memorial! Most of the weopons there still have mud on them!
www.awm.gov.au/collection/C238596
He already did. 😉
ua-cam.com/video/XOnhPtqj3Jo/v-deo.html
Had a k98 in 22. But with a detachable 5 shot mag
Not a big deal but the straight up position of the safety is safe but the bolt can move
As in... Disassembly?
a gun like the KKW now would probably sell well, especially with how it mimics the K98k
And just like that, this video was demonitized
Hate to bring this up Ian, but, where is the link to your review on the book by Bob Simpson?
Thank You , Ian .
You shouldn’t have to edit out the Swaztika. As a 12th generation Jew, I really don’t find it offensive. It’s a part of history, and if Germany finds it offensive, then too damn bad. They shouldn’t be allowed too. Again, it’s a part of history, no channel, game, movie or television series should have to edit it out for peace of mind. You’re not flaunting it around or chanting or supporting nazism. So really, stop editing it out. If anything, restrictions from UA-cam or any other content distributer that force contend uploaders to ban such things, really make it seem like they’re holocaust deniers. So please, stop editing out swaztikas
UA-cam will demonetize the video if I don't blur it. Complain to them, not me.
@@ForgottenWeapons I will complain to who i wish. especially if i am a subscriber. Especially if your a channel about history, maybe you should care a bit more about history...and a little less about money.
Hi Ian. My dad has a 1937 year mauser kar 98k, the standard german rifle during ww2. How expensive it could be. It works just fine. Also it's in very good condition.
If it is all matching, I could imagine $1500 and above. If not, you are probably looking around $1000. It will depend on the person buying it, I have seen people ask $14k for a k98k, guaranteed it was a rarer one, and I have seen a death head SS rune k98k sell for $750.
@@onelonecelt9168 ok, thanks for the information
I bought the Simpson Book after seeing the F W review. It is the single finest firearms book EVER written (and I have 700). Buy it if you have any interest in these firearms!
I have a Norinco JW25A that is a copy of CZ452 that is made to look like Walther KKW. Good rifle but it likes expensive ammo ;-)
You wouldn't happen to know a place one could source parts for one. I have one missing it's sear and a trigger guard screw
Did you check numerich?
Would it really be that difficult to just make .22 conversions to the K98k?
There actually are .22lr conversion kits available for the Mauser 98 ("Einsteckläufe" in German, i.e. smaller diameter barrels to insert into the rifle barrel), but they're quite rare since there's practically no market/demand for it anymore.
Commercially, probably. After all, they wanted a replica with a scaled down bullet not a reduction on their military rifle production.
Yeah but this rifle was also supposed to be cheap so every young boy could have one. Also it was supposed to look like a civilian fad to not alarm Germany's neighbors.
J G the tooling and stuff would have already been payed off, so one would assume that the cost would be relatively low. I do give the latter suggestion more credence, as Versailles might still be in effect.
Germans: You know would we need on our target rifles? Bayonet lugs and stacking rods!