Lelouch Deserves to LOSE | Code Geass Anime Discussion
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2020
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Code Geass is the darling anime of 2006. One of the most popular and most beloved series of all time, largely due to Lelouch. The villainous protagonist who leads a rebellion to overthrow the Britannian empire and create a better world. But, why does he really want to do that? And, is he right to lead such a bloody rebellion, or was that always bound to be his downfall? That’s exactly what we’ll look at today…
#Anime #CodeGeass #Lelouch - Розваги
Im not sure he "deserved" to lose, but he was definitely "doomed" to lose. Lelouche was never a hero, just a protagonist (at least to me). Still, I couldnt help but smile as he finally accomplished everything he fought for by sacrificing himself and cementing his legacy in history as everyone's villain
That's fair, I could have framed things that way, while still using his more likely criteria. I agree on the ending as well, such a great conclusion for his character, and Suzaku
He is hero
@@ProfessorViral he is a hero in disguise
This is why he had to lose Nunally in R2. That period of time between the first Fleija detonation and the realization of the Zero Requiem. He had to lose his raison detre to fully take up the duty of king to know why he was fighting, in which he not only helped save the entire world, but also found himself in the process.
Good point.
This is also the main diference between Batman and heroes like Zero or El Zorro.
Bruce Wayne became The Batman and his Bruce Wayne persona is his real mask.
In contrast neither Lelouch or Zero are a mask but a different part of Lelouch soul, almost like a diferent persona. The motivation of Zero is a better world for Nunally (Lelouchs sister). And the power to make Lelouchs dreams came from his Zero persona.
This division of Lelouch and Zero being diferent but complementing each other is what allows the Zero Requiem to works.
Lelouch became the simbol of tyrany and Zero the simbol of hope/rebellion.
Very true, I wish I has brought more attention to that specific phrasing! He uses the mask of Zero, but doesn't let a mask become part of him
Great analysis hope you do more code geass related analysis we need more of those on youtube have a great day
Thank you! Hopefully I'll be able to make something good for season 2!
if LeLouch abandoned his previous life then Zero’s identity would have been revealed way too soon.
I don't think he should have disappeared, but the commitment required him to devote himself to Zero. He would have more had to lessen his ties and slowly disappear, not all at once
Dude, this is so cool you did this before watching R2. Great breakdown. Perhaps the only way to successfully exercise the "path of destruction" for the betterment of the world is to completely sacrifice your humanity, which Lelouch did not fully do. However, once you have no humanity left, then what ideal will you be working for anyway?
And - now that you've seen R2 - perhaps this is exactly what R2 fulfills. I would personally argue that the moment Lelouch was able to command the Collective Unconscious, he transcended his humanity and became more godlike than human. We see that he was finally able to let go of every last human attachment he'd had - to the Black Knights, to his classmates, to Suzaku, and even to Kallen, CC, and most of all Nunnally. The Requiem perhaps is symbolic of the death of his humanity that had already occurred.
Lelouch transcending humanity perhaps also explained why - to our knowledge - a Zero Requiem has never been successful in our world. No ruthless dictator as far as we know has been able to accomplish an idealistic end proportional to the degree of power they wielded and blood sacrifices they conducted.
Dammm man your channel really deserves more views some of the best anime analysis videos I've seen
Thanks! I'm just happy that anyone's watching though : D
Interesting analysis, nice video.
Thank you! : D
This is one of the reasons Code Geass fascinates me. I've never seen something so thoroughly double down on consequentialism and valuing general ethics over individual love so much.
You're right that he deserved to lose, but that's why he DID lose.
When he finally came back to win, it's because he came back with true commitment to his ideals.
Interesting how you managed to get the ideas that would end the series before watching season 2.
The core of its themes is something that was knocking about in my head from other series as well, so I had a general idea of what the point would be without the exact plot
Were the French Partisans wrong for attacking the nazi war effort, "what if you fail" isnt an option when one side is actively trying to commit genocide. the Japanese either had the option to kick the Brittanians out or extinction. If The Black Knights never happened Suzaku would have never even been able to hold a gun let alone pilot lancelot. Its obvious that Suzaku was trapped behind a glass ceilling of descrimination.
I just want to say, I wasn't stating any personal beliefs on this topic, just applying different ethical theories. Of course it was right to resist the Nazis, and that's also an extreme case where I wouldn't subject anyone on the humane side to something so abstract for right and wrong. That's why I didn't address real world issues, just an anime. All I was saying is, by his own likely moral belief system, Lelouch wasn't entirely ethical
@@ProfessorViral sorry usually when I watch shows like Code Geass I look at them as a point in their world's history (which is why I hated Suzaku so much honestly) . That was my bad for assuming you talking about the resistance as a whole vs just lelouche's reasoning. just my tism acting up lol
Yes! In season 1 Lelouch was impressed by power CC give him so his will was so selfish
In S2 however he was impressed by truth, so he had the purest intentions
If he was “always meant to be” a failure? Does that men predetermination? I just started trying to look & see if that was a thing in code geass, if the future was fixed.
If Lelouche really wanted to pursue a utilitarian solution he would have used his Geass to make everyone loyal to him, all of his brothers and sisters, Suzaku, the Black knights. If everyone in a position of power became his slave then he would have been able to quickly dissolve the Empire.
This wouldn't work on Charles or the order of Geass but the majority of the Earth would be on his side and he would be able to issue military and political commands.
Aside from "die!" Or "live!" Lelouche always gives very detailed orders which makes it so people will only be compelled to act under very specific circumstances or even just once. It isn't until he conquers the world and is being intentionally as evil as possible that you see him use the command "Become my slave" a command that he should have probably been using on everyone from the start if he was a pure utilitarian who wanted a gentler world as fast as possible and without bloodshed, instead his pride and his ethics get in the way.
the intent justifies the means then according to kant, rather than the outcome?
FINALLY CODE GEASS CONTENT!!! Please do another one after you finish season 2
Hopefully I'll be able to! I'm sure there will be something to talk about in it! : D
This video was brilliant, you summarised the philosophies and it's conciquences so efficiently, but I have different opinions about Lelouch's characterisation, I think he genuinely cared about the Japanese, his priorities, atleast according to me were in order of, Nunally and her dream, The Revolution to genuinely make the world a better place, his revenge. And obviously I think even after all the wrogs he did he is ultimately a likeable character because all his flaws are so human, yes he abandoned his army for his sister in the end, and that was a horrible thing to do, but I would've done the same, 99% of people would've done the same, to me it's quite understandable
15:48 "If you know any other anime with characters like Lelouch or like Makishima, if you've seen Psycho-Pass, please let me know down below because I need more."
An anime I'd recommend is Death Note. Its protagonist, Light Yagami, is very similar to Lelouch.
I prefer the code ment personality of Lelouch. And also Suzaku.
I haven't seen the full thing, but I do love "IM AT SOUP" 😂
@@ProfessorViral L: What do you mean you're "at soup"?
I mean I'm at soup!
I understand the point .. but I think every viewer knew tht lelouch always had a selfish objective.. the reason lelouch is so great is the ends he meet to obtain the objective .. the determination nd input he puts into it .. he was never put as an Messiah but "villian" .. but despite everything he did benefit others nd led to a gentler world ... Even putting all this aside , in the end of R2 he did sacrifice himself to obtain the goal ( Some may say it was selfish cz he did it for his sister but by this take all sacrifices are selfish cz they r done for sake of others )
I respect your point and the ending was amazing but I just didn't like how almost everyone did a 180 on him even though he was the one that got them to where they are now. To me that's really unfair :(
@@melvinjones1655 yeah.. the anime has so many down moments nd charector betrayals .. but I bet lelouch didn't care much about betrayal of dark knights (as long as his ends meet) .. I love lelouch cz he thinks objectively nd always come on top ❤️
you have a point but i dont think your right .. this stories is not just literal as you say
please do a video on gundam iron blooded orphans
I've never watched Gundam since I caught a few episodes as a kid, but someone gave a good explainer on that series in another comment, so I may check it out after a few others I've been waiting to watch!
@@ProfessorViral okay and thanks for the reply dude giant robots are the best
No problem!
@@ProfessorViral thanks so much dude you rock
Look up Guyver and the character Agito Makishima, original OVA or the TV series.
this was quite possibly one of my favorite analyses of code geass, because to be honest, while lelouch is indeed an overall anti-hero, he was pretty villainous in r1. he saw his black knights as no more than pawns in his schemes. they were disposable to him. i do admire that lelouch wishes to make a better world for nunnally and how he wants to get revenge on his father for, well, looking down on nunnally and disregarding his mother's death. but even then, none of that excuses that he used the japanese people as his pawns.
(SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN R2 BUDDY)
that's why i love his development in r2. he doesn't see his black knights as his pawns anymore. he sees them as his true allies. so when the black knights betray them, i feel both angry at the black knights and angry at lelouch.
the black knights because lelouch gave them what they wanted, and lelouch because, well, he brought it on himself. he shouldn't have used them as pawns in the first place. he shouldn't have lied to them and manipulate them constantly. but it is what it is.
that's why i say that for all the terrible things he did, lelouch's death at the end was not unfair. a sacrifice, yes, but it was also a punishment. a punishment that was well deserved. a punishment that was coming to him eventually and was ultimately inevitable.
i love code geass so much
Thank you for the spoiler heads up, I still have to watch season 2! Also, I'm glad I was able to provide a good analysis! He for sure led a very selfish rebellion. If anyone else would benefit from it, that was just a side effect. Some agreeable reasoning, but unjustified execution
ProfessorViral tbh I think it’s pretty careless and unethical to write off lelouch without watching the whole anime. I think it would’ve made more sense to watch the entire series before giving your judgement on lelouch because his motives in R2 shows that he’s fighting for a good cause.
@@carlbloke8797 he did watch the whole anime dude lol
Sidney Wade but he said he still needs to watch r2
When I saw the title I thought that this is gonna be another "cOdE GeeAS SuCkS" video ( seriously what is wrong with you people ) but man this is amazing
Glad you enjoyed! The title definitely makes it seem a bit antagonistic at first 🤣
The title is outrageous
I mean, I do think he deserved to lose, so I'm sticking with it
this video DESERVES MORE ATTENTION
most people who have watched code geass simply take this anime as totally supporting utilitarianism, thus idolising Lelouch and his every single action, no matter how unwise they actually are at times
this vid clarify things up a bit that this anime is NEVER meant to support utilitarianism or anything downright, but instead meant to expose and discuss the truths and drawbacks of these ideas
utilitarianism has its downfall, and the ending of R1 is exactly what happens when the last straw is laid
He did win tho
I don't understand so you're saying because Lelouch didn't treat his soldiers well and wasn't fully committed so he deserved to lose? Lelouch's revolution was a cover-up for saving Nunnally his reason for living. The arguments here are all over the place. Also, you should have waited until finishing R2 to make this video or put R1 in the title because this analysis doesn't hold up taking both seasons into consideration if it ever did.
I had a reply I initially sent, but decided to delete because it was too harsh on thinking about it. I want to try and clear up any confusion instead of making a half-assed attack. What I'm stating in this video is that if we look at the rightness or wrongness of his revolution through some traditional ethical philosophies, he has on real option, Utilitarianism. He commits terrible actions, but it's believed in the end, he will bring more happiness than he took. In short, the ends justify the means. However, by ditching the revolution for his own desires, and allowing Britannian rule to continue, he fails to do so, and the "ends" of his actions become simply more oppressive rule. Thus, he performed wrong actions throughout the series. Dedication is certainly a part of it, but how he treats his soldiers isn't. It's about giving himself fully to his goals, because they require him, and he has the lives of so many in his hands. His own desires, in a total sense, should become less than the desires of the world, but he treats them as greater. Essentially, he was abusing the idea of a Utilitarian revolution from it's inception. I take a bit of issue with the ideas being called all over the place, as they build off of hundreds of years of ethics and stick mostly to them, but all I can do is hope I cleared anything that caused that up here. I also do want to state that I said within the first 30 seconds that the video only covered season one, so I did make it clear I wasn't considering the second season, where he flips to the other side of this dilemma. But, I hope this wall of text managed to shift some opinion, but if not, I'll have to work to ensure more clarity in the future. Sometimes I struggle to get ideas into a working order, so at first I got defensive at the idea, but I should be working to make sure it doesn't show through in my work
@@ProfessorViral
I know you said you only took into account R1. I am saying you should have waited until after completing R2. By not waiting you made a video that that only took half of Lelouch's journey and came to a false conclusion.
When I say your ideas are all over the place I am talking about how you structured the video. It was hard to follow hence this comment, to begin with.
And I understand the main thing you're saying but you haven't said why Lelouch "deserved" to lose. You're saying he's not following the Utilitarian revolution to the letter so he deserves to lose. But it's also possible that Lelouch could have succeeded while not fully committing to this.
For most of R1 his plans worked despite still favoring Nunnally in the series.
This is not as simple as if you physically attack someone and they hit you back then you deserved it. How does not following an ideology to the letter determine a reprisal?
The point is you're making a definitive on something that's not definitive. Set up to fail maybe deserved to fail no.
What I was saying the revolution was only a side plan and in reality, all Lelouch cared about was Nunnally. R2 really emphasizes this which is why I wish you watched it before making the video.
Remember he was going to end the rebellion at the SAZ. So it was never about the rebellion, to begin with. It was a means to the end. You acing as if the revolution was Lelouch's main goal, it wasn't. Every action taken was for Nunnally. Even accepting the contract was part of that C.C. said you have a reason to live.
That's my problem with the video in a nutshell in the avg case you would have a point but this situation and you didn't discuss too much. And there's too much absolutism here.
Lelouch is not even my favorite character and I even argue the black knight's betrayal was justified. And Lelouch deserved that but that's a result of lying and using them.
I noticed in your Code Geass videos you get many facts wrong which is why it would be great going forward to do a little more research before posting these videos.
I make gaffs in my videos but there usually minor. I do a lot of research including asking people on boards certain parts of the story. Most of the problems in this video could have been avoided if you did that.
But thanks for replying I do appreciate being cordial. My attacks are not on you as a person but the video(s) in question.
@@MyMediaChops bro what a W reply, you are the best code geass UA-camr and content creator man keep it up man !
Very disrespectful title. But still liked the video
Fair, I'm happy to see you liked the video!
But he succeeded..??
He does privately, but never publicly. Also, this video covers season one, where he hadn't yet lived out his plan
I think cowboy bebop has great characters
If you want a Geassy deep show, I'd reccomend Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans. It's heavy, it's 2 seasons, but I wholeheartedly reccomend it, especially since they tell the story of a war 300 years ago, without a single flashback, just by worldbuilding details and the consequences of certain information we get to learn (free one, the Alaya-Vijyana system, how dangerous and prone to failure the operation is, and that it was developed for the war, as well as there were at least 72 child pilots 300 years ago, standing atop a mountain of destroyed children)
Hope you give it a watch, it's an alternative universe Gundam, so no previous watching required, and as an added bonus, there's a technology that would make beam/laser weapons not really effective, so mecha fights rely more on kinetic weapons which makes them a feast for the eyes.
About the video itself - great point, and I'm happy I'm not the only one who thinks the Bloody Euphy scene is actually good and fitting, and not some sort of contrivance. It was foreshadowed and explained, with Mao(? The mindreader), as well as random mishaps happening with the geass, before it finally broke down.
My original interpretation is that while what he said might have been said as an offhand joke, in his heart of hearts he truly wished for it to be true. A moment where the Lelouch we know finally crosses the threshold of no return.
Welp, back to consuming your channel, as the menial work is progressing.
Thanks for the comment and the recommendation! I'm actually seeing a few for that series here, so I may check it out after I get a few others from the "watch later" list of anime! And that is very true, that he could have wanted it for the plan deep down. It felt odd that he chose something so extreme for his joke, even though it did fit the situation. His mind could have been hoping that it happened so he could finish what he started. Anyway, thanks for watching, I hope the menial work doesn't get you too down haha
@@ProfessorViral I think that the best place to start watching gundam would be gundam the origin , It tells te backstory of the gundam 0079's main antagonist Char Aznable who served as a inspiration for Lelouch
Please do attack on titan
I haven't seen it yet to, but I may one day!
@@ProfessorViral really? What are you waiting for? Where have you been? You have to watch it, trust me you will LOVE IT!! Let me subscribe and wait for you to watch it
Yeah he did deserve it, his evolved moral standards led him to self-genocide. Suzaku wins by default because he continues to have a shot of reproducing some degree of his values.
Blurg
Stop it
No ❤
Attack on Titan. Absolutely.
I actually haven't seen Attack on Titan past season one. Back when I saw it, the first season was all that was out
@@ProfessorViral They really dropped the ball with the long gap between season 1 and 2. But the show gets really interesting as it goes along...