Ep. 206: How We Learn to Move, feat. Dr. Rob Gray

This week we’re joined again by Dr. Rob Gray! Rob is an Associate Professor of Human Systems Engineering at Arizona State University, the host of the Perception & Action Podcast, and the author of How We Learn to Move: A Revolution in the Way We Coach & Practice Sports Skills.
In this episode, Rob provides an introduction to the material covered in How We Learn to Move. We have a great conversation about ecological dynamics, the constraints-led approach, differential learning, and other advancements in modern coaching methodologies.
Perception & Action - website & podcast:
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How We Learn to Move, by Dr. Rob Gray:
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Rob’s UA-cam channel:
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Mental models discussed in this episode:
Ecological Psychology
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Constraints-Led Approach
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Incremental Learning
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Differential Learning
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Self-Organization
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Keep it Playful
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Growth From Discomfort
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[@indirajayaraman4758]

Useful instruction. Thank you. I am a tennis coach.

[@ZupaTr00pa]

I can see how an ecological approach would be beneficial for MMA for similar reasons to the Police training example given here - more variable and unpredictable scenarios need more creative and adaptive solutions.
Where I'm a little hesitant is for sports like Darts. It's stated the exact same shot is never played twice but in darts, this is a key component of the sport. Being able to throw the exact same 3 darts in one visit is seen as a fundamental part of the game. In golf, surface type, wind, club, moisture, lay of the land... all variables you must contend with. In darts, you step up to a clean board and throw at the same targets in the same way every time (perhaps not exactly the same but the variability spectrum is much more narrow in darts vs golf).
No two darts players throw the same way which suggests there is no one size fits all and that every player finds their own way to achieve the desired outcome. Some players have completely changed how they throw and been able to compete at the highest level with completely different techniques over their career so even individually things can change.
What happens when the desired outcome is not reached though? You consistently don't throw straight. Do you just keep throwing and hope the brain works it out? Or do you need to force your elbow into an 'unnatural' position that actually straightens you up but feels wrong? There are so many times you know you've held the elbow correctly in place but the dart flies left or right and you have no idea why. How do you recognise what's going wrong? You've already stated the internal focus approach creates awkward movement patterns but I'm not sure how you'd go about making a dart player better.

[@thos1618]

In Rob Gray's book he goes over how this has been studied. Things like swings in golf and batting cages have been studied and even the best athletes have high variability when repeating the same task over and over.
I think the insight is that rather than a understanding the skill as a centralized motor control system running a precise movement sequence, it's more like the body is controlled a system of feedbacks that can turn high variability of movement into a stable outcome.
For example, as you're walking, every step doesn't need to be the exact same length and timing to walk in a straight line and not fall over.
I'm not in this field, but after reading Rob Gray's book, that's how I understand it.

[@BattlefieldsOfBattleFields]

The blacksmithing experiment referenced in the first 10 minutes of this interview addresses your questions. Read Rob's books, they're great .