SHOGUN 1x6 "Ladies of the Willow World" Reaction & Discussion!
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2024
- Shōgun, a new and adapted historical drama series, has arrived, depicting war and power in 1600s Japan.
Shōgun stars: Hiroyuki Sanada (The Wolverine, 47 Ronin, Bullet Train, Mortal Kombat (2021), & John Wick: Chapter 4), Cosmo Jarvis (Calm with Horses, Lady Macbeth, & Persuasion), Anna Sawai (F9: The Fast Saga, Pachinko, & Girl/Haji) & Tadanobu Asano (Thor, Battleship, & Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan)
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If you ask me, Mariko needed Kiku’s fancy escapist fantasy services more than the Anjin did.
I liked how she swapped from second person to first person describing them. I don't think he slept with Kiku xx xxxx xxxxxx
I don’t think they slept together either. Kiku is a POV character in the book - very sweet and thoughtful as well as perceptive of others needs.
@@mintybadger6905 I don't remember this scene in the book, but some of this stuff I sped through due to is size and some of it being dull in the center. I remember the her with Yabu, the young boy, and Yabu biting her while pleasuring himself or that happened and she lied about it later. I am relistening to it again on Audible. It's been 10 years though. My first wife was Chinese. Interest in Japanese stuff was my way of pissing her off when she was being to trite and on my ass about American injustice I have nothing to do with.
Yes, that's what was heavily implied by the cinematography
I wish Mariko joined the Anjin and the courtesan/concubine in the private room to translate the kinky talk and for a 3some.
Anjin salary rise from 250 to 600, man, thats a lot.
Fuji's appearence in episode 6 are very short, but her only screentime are stealing as always, her facial expression are stellar, someone please make a compilation of it
Wonder if she might get jealous at some point??? Like we saw how mariko was a bit jealous of kiku😂🤔
Now he has enough rice to feed 600 people for a year.
@@goodtaste4 It's even more, in the novel at least it says that 1 koku is what you'd have to pay for the amount of rice you need to feed a family (man, woman, two kids) for an entire year. IIRC ofc.
Anjin festival August 10th.
It seems to be the 77th time this year.
@@phj223 Essentially Blackthrone was given responibility for a village and the land around it which has a net income of about USD 300,000/year. This means he has a small group of soldiers, tasked with holding that land, as well as tax collectors and has to manage the village and deals to sell the village's products
I can't believe how consistently excellent this show is so far. Really puts so many other shows being greenlit with similar recources to shame. It really is the gold standard.
Thank Hiroyuki Sanada for ensuring the quality of the show is fantastic as a producer
Well, it has some fantastic source material to draw from (the novel by James Clavell), and there's also the equally fantastic 1980s miniseries for inspiration. :)
@@phj223 and real life
There needs to be a concerted effort to make a compilation of Fuji reactions. Everytime the camera cuts to her, it’s fucking gold
Yes someone will be make that for sure and also Yabushige "ha?" Compilations
@@ahmarelvirgio823 and everytime Yabushige rewrite his will. lol
Love yabushige so much. Dude is hilarious lmfao
John Blackthorn after being with Kiku : 😔😞😩
John Blackthorn after being with Mariko: 😊😁😄
John Blackthorn after being with Ochiba: 💀
@@PROVOCATEURSK More like Ichido
With toronaga next
lady ochiba her voice is so special
i don't know she awakes something in me. it's hot as hell
Fumi Nikaido ❤❤
@@jatinchanchlani8982 Bro think he Ishido
she sounds like a sexy anime villain
Anyone else noticed Mariko instructed blackthorn to complement her beauty but he never did
He ain´t no simp.
Anyone noticed how Blackthorne complimented Kiku after all, remarking on how well presented and quick witted she was, and was quite animated at that; BUT Mariko did not translate what he said properly, its not even a proper contextual interpretation of what he said; and outright said something that is an exact opposite of what he said?
The little hand touch, and her not pulling away, was somehow more powerful than "I will be joining you both".....
This show is so so so very well produced.
I don't want it to end :(
最終回を迎えたら寂しくなりますね。
I feel you on this!!!
I'vent been this excited about a TV Show since Game of thrones.
Nothing better than the wait for a new episode !!
Absolutely, a rare American produced show that has the most Asian authenticity.
@@nami9078 Yes, tragedy and dead ...
@@VVoude Shogun 1980 is top.
I just need Fuiji-sama sipping tea in the background everytime a mic-drop scene happens
its funny how they make mariko's translations a part of her character, just the subtext of how she incorrectly translates stuff on purpose is frankly hilarious
Not even about that. She purposely did that because she was jealous lol.
In feudal Japan, the incomes of samurai were measured in koku of rice. A koku of rice was considered to be the amount needed to feed one man for one year. To be a daimyo, a samurai needed an annual income of 10,000 or more koku; an income between 100 and 9,500 koku made one a hatamoto, and an income of less than 100 koku made one a go-kenin.
In 1650, the total kokudaka of Japan was assessed at 26 million koku, with the Shōgun directly controlling 4.2 million koku.
So Hatamoto is general, I’m assuming Daimyo is Lord, what does go-kenin mean?
@@SwiddyDiddyIt's usually translated as retainer or houseman.
Came to give a breakdown on the worth of Koku in the era. Glad to see the work already done! ^_^
i knew it! rice = power
So if you wanted to buy an armour from a blacksmith would you pay him with rice?
that tea house scene came out of nowhere... bowled me over. amazing direction. standing ovation. where kiku the courtesan senses something between the two and spoke of the willow world in a spot behind mariko. where mariko is forced to translate her words with only mariko in view of anjin. fucking amazing
Toronaga is so insightful and very calculated. Small emotional matters are treated as trivial. Ochiba comes out as very sinister without trying, great acting.
Yes, the line about the dark is the tip off, then Kiku lays out for Mariko (during that whole eclipse-as-translation shot) that she will be a stand-in for Mariko when she pillows with John. When Mariko says “it must only be you” it’s because she knows if she goes in there with them that the illusion of Kiku-as-Mariko is broken.
finally someone catches this
Kiku is definitely the top courtesan of all Kanto....
Fuji so fun to watch everytime 😂
I kinda love how, when the Jesuit priest was translating the first meeting, they dropped out the "translation" scenes after a few lines. Because he was giving an EXACT {or as close as possible} translation.
When Mariko "translates", they always leave in her part. Because she is NEVER giving an exact translation, but tempering what is said to fit her needs.....
14:59….In reality, a lot of people thought Ochiba cheated with a secret lover and off’ed him after giving birth to the heir.
That’s definitely what happened clearly the taiko was infertile
Fumi Nikaido, the actress who play Lady Ochiba, has a lot of interesting characters under her belt.
She played with Tadanobu Asano (the actor who played Yabushige) in My Man (2014) which certainly has disturbing storyline. A troubled teenager in Himizu (2012), silly high schoolgirl in romantic comedy, an assassin, the girl who survived the massacre, or simply just a girl who tried to find a job.
In her early career, She almost always choose a character with awkward, enigmatic, creepy, or ambiguous persona, and it made her stands out compare another female japanese actor around her age.
Yo the look on her faces and in her eyes as lady ochiba scares the hell out of me. Like any form of discomfort she might feel and "off with his head"😂
Plus she already played as Lady Ochiba in a show called Gunshi Kanbei 10 years ago so playing Ochiba in Shogun is simply her reprising her role which made it more refined.
@@nont18411 Wait, Gunshin Kanbei the Taiga dorama??
I never watched this series because it really difficult to find Taiga dorama (along with the subtitles) :(
She’s also starring in Eye Love You, where she’s this sweet, shy, little mess of a woman. Her range is 🔥🔥
@@asrafeliciacheck drama-otaku, most English fan translations are on there
Fuji-sama has very little screen time in this episode, but she steals every scene she's in. Both the women and the men in this show are all so bloody fascinating, but Fuji-sama might be my fave overall.
That is precisely the reason. Toranaga can see what is happening and is testing them all, fairly but also coldly. He needs them, but in order to make use of them, he needs their minds to be calm and focused. This man is a great leader. A difficult role to play but Hiroyuki Sanada-San is proving that he is a great actor and the rest of the cast is no slouch. Added to this is a script that is a delight, full of subtle innuendo as opposed to the lack of finesse of the other culture. Slowly simmering story that contributes to a high level of tension. It's one of the best shows we've seen in years.
18:12 ~
Fuji's facial expressions are top tier
in episode 6 she only appear in that scene, and as always still stealing
Fuji is definitely my favourite. I want to see more of her.
Protect Fuji-sama! Sipping her tea, trying to act oblivious to what Gin, Kiku’s *ahem* handler, was trying to insinuate between Anjin and Mariko sama (which she is definitely aware of)
Glad to see everyone's simping for Fuji. 😂
Japanese version of eating popcorn
Love hearing your well thought out opinions and theories, and thank you for appreciating the complexities of the plot and the characters! It's sadly lacking in other reaction videos! Great job, you two!
Toranaga gave Anjin wealth and title but never gave him what he actually wanted. He needs Anjin to win the war. 😂
As a savvy master falconer he is dangling the lure in front of his bird of prey to make it an efficient hunter.
Only to the victor go the spoils.
I seriously hope that the actors will watch your reactions. They'd be so entertained and flattered!🥰😄🤣
"Don't come again!" LMAO!!!! Man, I love this channel--led by you two--so much!!! THANKS for this!!!!
And then theres the subtex on the tea house itself. Blackthorne was complementing Kiku as, in his homeland, courtesans were not presented to look so beautiful or were quick witted: they were just s*c dolls; but Mariko translates “he preffers his homeland” which is the complete opposite of what he said. 😆😆😆
In case anyone doesn’t know, Lord Kuroda=>Oda Nobunaga, and Mariko’s father=> Akechi Mitsuhide.
Oh dang that’s why the monks were getting chopped. It all make sense now
Well...duhhhh
It's interesting that Clavell saw Oda Nobunaga via Lord Kuroda as being a brutal and cruel tyrant. Though his views are not just by him but also some historians in Japan who saw him as akin to the devil.
Would've been interesting what the world would see Oda's legacy if he had completed his unification of Japan instead of Tokugawa.
@@TullaryxWe are all villains in someone else's story. Oda might be a cruel tyrant to some but the others think he's one of the heroes who unified Japan.
In the religious face, Oda Kazunosuke Saburou Taira no Ason Nobunaga is cursed because of his massacre at Enryakuji and Nagashima. In mental, Nobunaga is exhausted of war and getting impatient resulting in order of eradication other clans, resulting to look at him as tyrant.
About the last part. The murdered council member's hand was a defensive wound. It shows that he was struck down while unarmed. It implies that there was no call for honor to defend one's self, that the act was just a chore that needed to be done.
Or it could have been cut while wielding a sword. There are strikes with the katana targeting the forearm, wrists, etc and real combat is messy especially when it's not 1:1.
Look! You are the best react ever! The subtleties of the intrique does not escape you. Shogun is subtle yet blatant! Tense most of the time yet funny at times. Refined and raw. It's like we come across a civilisation that can match our own on equal terms. It takes the floor under your feet.
You would want Toranaga to be good but is he not a member of this same world that sees all these intrigues and plots? His wit and senses are shown each episode. If you picture him as a mastermind, the threads connect seamlessly. First time Crimson Sky was suggested, there was opposition and he did not have a valid reason (except to guard his own life). The second time he declared it after receiving a valid reason. Does he want what's best for Mariko or is simply positioning her to be a perfect pawn? Kiku might also be his pawn: she was listening in on the conversation between Yabushige and Omi in episode 4 and she actively suggested to Omi to force an action (which as Toranaga explained to Yabushige is beneficial to him to draw the enemies to him. He could have suggested the night at the brothel in order to understand better what's happening between Mariko and John. All the acting in the show is very well done (probably the only one that doesn't shine is Toranaga's son for me) but Hiroyuki Sanada's really stands out. If you don't think about it too much, he perfectly portrays an underdog forced to ascend to glory. If you however look a bit deeper, he perfectly portrays the real historical figure on which the book is based on. Yabushige is another role that is very well acted for me: you can't read him because his main trait is indecisiveness and obsession to play both sides. You can see his character likes to observe more than take part (wonders about the last moments before death, likes to watch sex rather than take part, likes to force a passive stance in all matter which is why he's a perfect fiddle for Toranaga which keeps forcing him to act as he needs. His permanent writing of wills shows more that he's obsessed with how he will be remembered than how he lives. There's much more to be said and it's definitely a show that's worth multiple watch-throughs. PS edit: I'm pasting here a comment I made before related to the title of the episode: "Yet another chance for us to see why Kiku is the best courtesan. She understands the needs of her clients perfectly. As she understood that Yabushige likes to observe, so she understood that she would sit on the other side of Mariko and John and not between them. He offered a moment between them through her words. The art of a courtesan at this time was very beautifully shown I feel." Edit 2: after watching a few the scenes a few more times, I ask myself if the night at the Tea House is ordered by Toranaga for John or more for Mariko's benefit. Talking to her directly afterwards seems to suggest this more and what he says to her comes after reading that message (either informing him what happened at the tea house or how Lady Ochiba is handling things in Osaka)
You absolutely nailed all of it. Couldn't have said it better
He is Tokugawa Ieyasu after all. He must look at the big picture before personal stuffs.
Always enjoy the two (same & different) interpretations by you guys. 👍from Japan
I really like Mariko and in this episode she got even more character development and we got to know more about her as a character and as a person she is constantly in conflict with her desires, beliefs and duty. As we see in her past that she was very happy when she was with her father but it is really sad to know that she wants to die because of what had happened to her past and I really like the bond that her and lady Ochiba share they seem to be really close but as the year pass they became apart and I am really excited to know what is going to happen next. And that specific seen that lady Ochiba goes to the emperor to just gave him an heir knowing well the emperor has a wife but he wants an heir for the throne so they will get any woman to be the concert for to him to give a son to be the heir that shocked and disguised me but this episode perfectly shows the suffering and hardships that women go through at that time in Japan and I really like this fact that the show doesn't shy away to show the brutality and the most disgusting thing that at the time Japanese people used to do. In that Kiku scene, Mariko and Blackthorn have so much tension and chemistry but to their circumstances and rules that they cannot express the feelings that they have for each other.
The father of lady Ochiba's son is not the Emperor, but Taiko.
Taiko and the Emperor are different.
The Emperor is in Kyoto and has the highest position in Japan.
The Emperor appoints the Taiko or Shogun.
Even today, the Emperor appoints Japan's Prime Minister, who is elected by the Diet.
@@maemai-iq4hr ok that's intresting
Ok that's intresting @maemai-iq4hr
But shes married and he can divorce so i guess japan woman couldnt do the same?
“If we are not monsters, we are food. And I can never be food.”
This is probably the mindset of Lady Ochiba to make herself not become a perpetual victim like Mariko.
Was I the only one who thought of Daredevil's Black Sky when they mentioned Crimson Sky plan? 🤔
'Apex Courtesan' - giggles 😃 ♥ this show!
I agree, when he said "i wish i can cut myself to the knees" i thought thats it, theyre gonna fkin murder him
''Ochiba No Kata'' reminds me of one of the greatest villainess in the history of cinema, ''Lady Kaede'' in Akira's Kurosawa's ''Ran'' (1985).
I like Kiku's character in this episode so much. It shows that shes not only a professional in her craft but also able to use the psychological elements of her job even for her non-customers. Speaking through Mariko, letting them both know "this place isn't real, its a fantasy even just a temporary one where you can be with the person you hired, but the room can be dark so you can be with who ever you want or need to be with." Even inviting her in with them to take her place where no one would know. It's done the same way even now here in Japan with... "higher class" establishments. It's not just go in have fun, there is conversation, service, and understanding between customer and client... then fun lol.
Loosely translated into military terms, one koku of rice would feed one samurai for a year. So, the more koku the farmers on your fief could grow, the more bannermen you could rally for your Daimyo. And, the more bannermen you brought your Daimyo, the more value you had to him.
Thus, every increase in koku was an honour to the recipient, and more power for the Daimyo giving the reward.
Koku was a samurai's wealth and in order to maintain their fiefs, households, food clothing, weapons, Samurai had to sell their koku to merchants for gold or credit or to pay off debt. As in GOT, medieval era, a lord coming to visit a retainers fief would have to be received, he and his men fed, entertained, sheltered. This was often the reason some went into debt trying to keep up appearances. This was a way for the lords to keep their retainers from becoming too wealthy and powerful.
The Shogun sang in the song that played during the credits of episode 5, "Atsureba Koso Hana" (Flowers bloom because there is clean water), which means that lotus flowers do not bloom with clean water alone.
It is because of the seemingly dirty, muddy water that they are able to bloom into beautiful flowers.
It's the same for humans.
"Mud" represents "earthly desires" and "suffering."
Painful thoughts, worries, difficulties, sadness... The meaning seems to be that it is because of the suffering that surrounds us, and by not giving up and using each of these as "food" that we can make "beautiful flowers" bloom. From a 56-year-old Japanese samurai.
This show is phenomenonally made!!
Such a well written show
I would not be surprised if the Tea House was feeding information to Toranaga and influencing individuals on his behalf. I suspect Toranaga set this up as a test of Mariko and John’s relationship. Mariko I think knew this and didn’t fall for the bait/lure “we are being watched”. She was definitely tempted but resisted in the end. I almost wished she told John “Convince her you desire no other… for us.”
It was also a way of cooling their budding relationship.
Fief: An estate of land, specifically one held on condition of feudal service. By giving Blackthorn a fief, Toronaga has essentially made him a "lord." Blackthorn is responsible for that estate and its management, and that estate is answerable to him. The 600 Koku mentioned in relation the fief delineate the fief's size and/or its ability to produce income, whether in the form of crops (rice), livestock, fish, etc.
I don’t think Toranaga cares about the tea or drama as much as the ripple effects the drama is having on his side of the war. Buntaro one of his best is hitting his precious translator and being publicly disrespectful to his guest John, John who was ready to teach and fight with him now is restless and wants to leave Japan, and Mariko is having little arguments with John in the middle of translating disrupting communication.
Yakuza wise pinkie fingers are ones that are cut,cause it makes hand lose its grip and person couldn't grip katana. Depending on offense offender would lose one or more joints of same finger.
"history is written by the victors" especially this drama were watching now where Tokugawa is loyal to the heir and Ishida is the schemer lmao
Also Sugiyama's hand looks like a defensive wound, instinctively put his arm out to block a sword which just cut through it.
Buntaro is having doubts with the relationship with Mariko and john, that's why Toranaga "Gifted" the courtesan as to avert any suspicions between the 2.
And Toranaga hinted that he knows about the something going on😆
Everything was subtext.
First she said that “this is a private place where it can be dark if you wish it”. Then, after observing his guests says “a woman cannot look away when someone else suffers”, which subtly hints at him deducing whats going on between Mariko-sama and Blackthorne. Then the part where Kiku disappears behind Mariko, speaking to Blackthorne through her, and Anjin can only see Mariko. And it caps off with Kiku-dono asking if Mariko were to join them. It was all well staged. So well staged that, thankfully, they did not add the actual pillowing scene which would have cheapened the whole thing.
Now as to Toranaga’s intentions as to why he had Mariko join Blackthorne to the tea house, im not 100% on.
If he didnt already know by episode 5, he sure as hell knows now. But he is planning a war and has no time to bother with Domestic issues. So did he do this publicly to dispell any rumors bubbling between Mariko and John? Did he do it to test Mariko? Is this a power move to see if he can find a way to control the Anjin? I wanna hear your thoughts! But one thing is for sure: Toranaga-sama is not oblivious.
@@khaii13 Toranaga is like a god at this point. He is so omnipresent and has eyes and ears everywhere.
@@nont18411 oh definitely.
I guess the part where the generals have to think about an idea to conquer the castle, john will come with a briliant idea. My opinion is that he will attack osaka with his ship and canon Regiment at the coast of the castle and toranaga with his generals at the entrance. John will destroy their defenses while toranaga is waiting to attack after the defenses are broken. John explained his plan in the 4th episode that the castle is impossible to conquer on land, but at the sea it's the easiest way.
Or like the book,…let’s just put it this way, Bkackthrone’s rambling about the Seige of Malta is a huge foreshadowing.
@@StryderK perhaps
The wounds on the hands of the dead regent might have been defensive wounds if he was trying to ward off sword strikes his hands would have gotten chopped up
28:16 Regarding what Mariko said, I think not only women are always at war, but also women are always at war with no purpose. Men go to war for pride, honor, power, etc. Women are just simply at war because they get caught in them.
36:12 - You say you never know what Toranaga knows...To add to that, did you notice Toranaga reading a message and then burning it right before the scene where he asks Mariko how it went with Blackthorne and Kiku? (It was very Tywin Lannister like. Secret messages. Always scheming.) Not sure who he would be getting secret messages from at this point...
Could be his half-brother they mentioned joining forces with for Crimson Sky, but who knows- he clearly has spies all over the place
They had to make their deaths look 'unrefined' because their alibi was they were killed by bandits. The wounds doesn't necessarily mean they tortured them - although they could've.
That running gag of Yabushige having to write his last will and testament. AGAIN.
Also:
All hail Ochiba-sama!
i have a different interpretation of the entire brothel scene. Toranaga tells buntaro to take a 7 day break from his wife for the purpose of letting mariko and john explore their feelings becuause John asks to leave for a second time. Everyone already knows there's something between mariko and john so there's a HEAVY emphasis on the teahouse "being as dark as you want it" and away from "prying eyes". Kiku then speaks to john through the mariko but those are also the feelings mariko has for john. You guys noticed that she changed her pronoun half way through from "she" to "I". A few seconds later, we get a quick flashback to mariko's past signifying why she can't ever reveal her true feelings. Its becuase she's duty boumd to her family and lord so when kiku asks if she is going to join them, she declines letting us know she has chosen her duty over her feelings for john.
Ty for your reaction, this episode was great all round, the direction of the Kiko / Mariko scene was perfectly done. when Mariko says that Kiko is skilled there was no doubt she meant it, she read her soul in moments. It seemed like it was filmed in part as if Blackthorne was not even there, like an abstract if that makes any sense.
lady ochiba is on the same level as Toronaga they are both extremely smart and playing chess against each other she is a worthy adversary
Omi singing the '70s classic: "Kiku... you don't have to put on the red light... "
Kiku wanted Mariko to sleep with the Anjin.
Greetings from Germany. Shogun 👌
Yabu is a proper shifty sneaky snake LOL
Did you guys know the town of edo that is depicted in the series is todays Tokyo. 😮
27:00 the dead lord's hand didn't seem like torture but defensive wounds you would get if you instinctively block a blade with your hands.
Torunaga may have an issue with the church thing, but he also wants to continue trade with the Portuguese (a crown thing).
Ahaha, until Togukawa gains the shogunate!
30:45 When Mariko was negotiating with the Brothel owner, the Owner assured Mariko that they would be secluded/privacy was guaranteed in that room. Which is why Mariko, after low-balling, ultimately agrees to the 300 price.
In the room, Kiku basically offers to leave & let them be alone, if thats what they want. The scene where Kiku positions herself in line with Mariko & "speaks thru her" was intentional on Kiku's part.
1 Koku is what it takes to feed a person or family for 1 year in rice it’s really not clear which. Monme is silver Ryo is gold. I looked it up
日本で鞠子の故郷、関西地方では基本「銀」が流通して、関東地方では「金」が流通してたので取引は「重さ」でしてました。菊のいる場所は伊豆ですので関東の範囲。
だたし、関西地方では「銀」関東地方では「金」の流通システムは江戸時代以降確立されたとも言われます。
このSHOGUNの時代は江戸時代の少し前の桃山時代
Ochiba means fallen leaves, and Fuji(藤) means wisteria, not related to Mt.Fuji(富士)
It wasn't a surprise reveal i think ep1 they said that her father was Lord Koruda. Then it is revealed that Mariko's father served Koruda sama and assassinated him. So the reveal was there
1 Koku is enough rice(or value of) to feed 1 person for a year per the novel. Blackthorn is also awarded weapons and suits of armor because he is expected to become a vassal to his own samurai.
I liked when Anjin pay raised
It'll be a damn crime if this doesn't see another season. I can't see how they could wrap everything up within 4 episodes without leaving out parts.
nice one 2seconds after upload😆
Toranaga claims he desire no power, but knowing Tokugawa Ieyasu (his historical model) I sincerely doubt that...
Cannot wait for the next episode!
ya, as someone that hasn't read the book but knows a little about Tokugawa, I was like "wait a minute..."
I think we did see the family beheadings.
William Adams was actually given 250 koku.
The finger cutting is for modern day Yakuza (who got it from samurai, but who knows how much they idealized that) so u cant draw ur sword as good anymore, kind of castrating u. But imo the Regent was just cut at the fingers from a defensive move. Aka slipped by the handguard and through his dominant hand
If you didn't get goose bumps during that... And if you read the book Mariko is actually happy is with Kiu, she was not only a gift from Toranaga, she was a gift from Mariko, like Mariko was making love to him.... It gives him like hype...
We saw the mighty ODA NOBUNAGA !...
For reference, since at least one other explained the value of a Koku... A Monme is a coin of lesser value, with 1 Koku equaling to around 60-70 Monme, fluctuating from the Sengoku Period through the Edo Period. So, even at the cheapest Mariko wanted to offer, that's still around 2 Koku (or rice for two years, for one person)!
I wonder how Father Martin knows how much threat Ochiba. Did she do confession of sin? Also, I wonder whether Mariko’s fate should intertwined with former taiko. Mariko always stated how her father wished that she was married better.
We saw in episode 2 shes hostile to christianity
We saw in episode 2 shes hostile to christianity
1 koku is the cost of the amount of rice you need to feed an average sized family (man, woman, two kids) for one year. So yes, 600 koku is A LOT. :)
I really missed one line from Mariko from the novel and the 80s series, after Toranaga gives Blackthorne the two swords. If you know you know.
Well don’t leave me hanging man
@@sarahenglerstone2814 Didn't wanna spoil anything, but I guess it isn't such a big deal. If you have plans on reading the novel at some point, or watching the 1980s miniseries, you might not wanna scroll down. :)
**POTENTIAL SPOILER FOR A SCENE DEPICTED IN EPISODE 6 (compared to the novel and 80s version)**
In the 80s version and particularly in the novel, there is some debate among Toranaga's samurai if Blackthorne being appointed hatamoto also means that he is a samurai, but they all conclude (correctly in the context of the novel) that he is "only" hatamoto (something like a trusted advisor, a high ranking vassal etc). While they all agree that he has a right as hatamoto to carry the two swords, they also agree that it doesn't make him samurai.
So, in the forementioned scene in the 80s version, it's pitch black, some fires are roaring in Toranaga's camp, and Toranaga stands on an elevated stage in front of hundreds of samurai. He gives basically the same speech as in the new series, but he also says something like a Lord is never obliged to award men in his service, but that sometimes exceptions must be made. He talks about how Blackthorne has saved his life at least two times, maybe more, and he gives him two new swords made by some master weaponsmith, and at the end he adds something, and Blackthorne has to wait for Mariko's translation. There's an amazing score playing, accompanied by drums that are played by actual samurai in the scene, and they rise and rise. Mariko turns to Blackthorne and says:
- You, Anjin-san, are now - samurai.
Lady Ochiha's younger sister is the wife of Toranaga's son (Nagakado). Relationships are more complex.
So Toranaga 100% knows, Or did once he saw her reaction to "you will go with him." But does Kiku know? Did she just read the body language and figure it out. Cause that scene was entire too erotic for everyone to be dressed.
I think what Mariko was saying was not that all women are constantly at war, or that being a woman is to be at war, but that IF a woman is wronged so egregiously as to be "at war" with someone, then that war is FOREVER. It never ends until one side is defeated. It cannot be compartmentalized to one side of her being. It cannot be ended over a simple matter of honor, money, o land. Nothing is off the table, honor is not a consideration, and no matter how many years go by, time alone cannot conjure peace into being. Which may or may not be an accurate reflection of the differences between the sexes in general, but it CERTAINLY describes Lady Ochiba's attitude towards Mariko and Toranaga, and Mariko's attitude towards the Taiko and others who slaughtered her family.
@15:09 same achara 😭😭
I said the same thing during that scene...
Jaby - that's too hot! 🤣🔥
Nice Metal gear T-shirt.
I don't think the murdered council member in the forest was tortured. The injury to his hand looked to be a defensive wound, as if he had tried to fend off a blow from a sword.
Well, that's certainly what I'd like to think as well.
When lady ochiba said to Ishido that you can’t beat toranaga maybe she already got the word to his half brother and is expecting toranaga to ask for his help to eventually betray him because she is a very very good manipulator but could be wrong on that but we’ve never seen who the half brother is. And the cutting fingers thing when the “bandits” attacked I think he just got a good slash on him cuz you can see the slash on his cheek and if he was holding his sword a certain way one slash from up high down to the handle of his sword cutting off his fingers at a angle. That man was also on the front lines when that happened so there’s no way they tortured him there wouldn’t be time to they just wanted him dead. Again my opinion
Yabushige is the most entertaining character on the show, IMHO. So wily and deceitful and cruel, but also kind of dumb and weirdly endearing.
I want to think when Mariko says women are simply at war is because they are always married into some kind of conflict resolution and kind of their job to keep everything rolling like bringing forth an heir.
How does that work?!?!? One word….OSAKA! Even if you didn’t read the book, it’s heavily implied in this episode, Toda Hiro-Matsu had to leave Lady Kiri behind. Sugiyama felt trapped and a hostage. Someone had to go and free all the hostages. Guess who that someone was?….Yes, it’s a suicide mission.
I’ve also noticed that Mariko doesn’t accurately translate what Blackthorne says at all. This time it was jealousy I think, but other times….
historical trivia :
- mariko's (Gracia) father, Akechi Jinsai (Akechi Mitsuhide) kill his lord, lord kuroda (Oda Nobunaga), who was known as the demon king, massacre women and children, and even monks, and he like to drink from his enemies skull.
- Lady Ochiba (Lady Yodo) was not the daughter of The former lord, rather he was her uncle.
- the Taiko cannot become the shogun, so too his son (the heir), that is because the taiko was originaly a peasant, once the sandal bearer of the former lord. the shogun only come from the bloodlines of Minowara clan (Minamoto clan), the first Shogun
- sugiyama's death which in he got assasinated by ishido was fictional, there is no regent that got killed. The reason the war happen, is because the death of the neutral and the number 2 power house in the regent council, Maeda Toshiie. number 1 power was Toranaga (Tokugawa), number 2 was Ishido (ishida mitsunari) and his allies.
- lady ochiba (Lady Yodo) historicaly refuses to back up ishido (Ishida Mitsunari), as she seen this was a conflict between the heir's vassals. So in the end Ishido facing Toranaga (Tokugawa) on his own, not using the Taiko's banner
- Toranaga's claim the his clan comes from the line of minowara, in fact was disputed claim
3 body problem reaction please. Creator of game of thrones. Great scifi
Not Achara mentioning a tickle fetish in this reaction! I feel so seen! 😂
Whatever floats your boat 😂
@@bryancookieface6348 Haha, thanks. There's worse things to be into, I can assure you 😂
The book has John and Mariko sleeping together after the escort leaves
This might be the sexiest episode of TV ever.
What if the heir wasn't a Taiko son ?, that was a very smart question. Well .. there's a rumour that Ishida (Ishido) was Lady Cha-cha (Ochiba) secret lover, Ishida Mitsunari was so adamant defending Hideyori (Taiko heir) claim to the throne and willing to risk everything he had because the heir maybe his own blood. That would be a huge scandal, if the show are heading this way would add drama in it. 😂
It would be a spoiler from the book if you got.an answer right now. I don't know if they will show it in the series.
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