The story is so abstract it’s wild they sat and thought up essentially a creation myth, for a world that doesn’t even work like ours. Such a strange and awesome world they’ve created
One thing I want to point out about the opening cinematic is that each of the tarnished named in the opening presents a potential age or solution to the shattering. Gideon - age of fracture where we continue to struggle in a broken land. Fia - age of the duskborn where we bring those who live in death into the current order and give them guidance they lack. Gold mask - age of order where the elden ring is restored to its original form before the Marika started messing with it like removing the rune of death or Radagon with the rune of rebirth only this time with safety locks to stop it from being tampered with. Dung eater - age of despair letting everything rot and suffer. Horrah Loux- a return to the age of the crucible where once again anything that opposes him is crushed under his might Us- The tarnished little renown that will be the one to crush all those that oppose us and usher in the next age whichever we choose.
If you read the description on the rusty anchor weapon it says that the tarnished set sail over the seas and only one vessel was left behind. I take this to mean that they did in fact leave the lands between, and not that Merika just killed them all.
That is in fact the strongest point against the theory. I could counter by telling you to go to Limgrave ("First step" bonfire) go to the coast and look southwest-west. I wonder whose ships those shipwrecks are... :o
Despite how much I despise GRRM he's really good at story telling from certain perspecrives, not knowing if what you're being told is true or only true from that characters pov. ASOIAF makes the point that history is written by the Maester's and they decide what's told and how to what's left out. Elden Ring seems like the perfect vehicle for that type of storytelling. With all the mysteries surrounding characters, events, who we are, etc. the deeper the dive the smoker the fig becomes.
Despise? :D What did he do? But I agree, that kind of storytelling is something he is really good at and fits perfectly with Fromsoft games. If I remember correctly Martin once stated that his contribution to Elden Ring is smaller than most people think, however.
@swapnilbiswas8254 IMO, he had the opportunity to be on the same level as Tolkien when we talk about: epic fantasy, world building, taking real-world events and adapting then for storytelling (aka The War of the Rose or 100 year war being used as the conflict between the Lannisters and Starks), or the idea of storytelling for certain points of view (like how the Maesters controlled the historical narrative and could omit or emblish details). Once I was hooked by the show I read the books 4 times listened to the audio books forward and backwards (1-5 5-1) all the time at work, read the Dunk and Egg novellas (which have 6 short stories left and the next one talks place at Winterfell 8+ years and counting), youtube all the lore from the awakening for the children to the tragedy of Summer Hall and my theory Cold Hands (in the books) is Dunk after he saved everyone he could be makes it out but is dying and the children find him and bury a shard of obsidian in his chest to change him. I love everything about this world its geography and its fictional people, and to know GRRM will never finish it, again in my opinion, undoes the potential of his legacy. It's been 13 years since John was stabbed in his last chapter with Ghost howling in his pen (also never read any of the pre-release chapters, Ser Barristan has a chapter at the back of the book and it wouldn't spoil Winds) if he wrote 3 chapters a year it wrote be finished by now. I think he fell in love with the fame, comic cons, panels, etc. after years of struggling in the TV industry script writing. He's spent so much time focusing on other projects ASOIAF has been permanently shelved, I bet we get a reboot of the series before A Dream of Spring. GRRM could have been the Tolkien of the modern era, but I think I dropped the ball and is incapable of finishing the story now. He's also said he won't let anyone finish his project if he dies, and then everything's left unresolved. That's about it. He's killed my passion for his fantasy world and my money that comes with it through apathy. I don't wish him ill will. I just don't think very highly of him as a writer because I don't know him as a person.
@@jamesbee3087 Maybe ever thought that he wrote such a convoluted brought story with so many plots going on that he is just really unsure how to write it to a conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if he is mostly afraid to publish something that is not good enough ruining the entire thing. Writing stuff for shows or shorter prequels is likely much easier to do
@@jamesbee3087 "to know GRRM will never finish it, again in my opinion, undoes the potential of his legacy." You praise Tolkien but lament GRRM for this. Maybe you don't realize Tolkien never finished his work? Plenty of authors have never finished their work, yet it is praised as their legacy, etc. I never understood people's arguments surrounding this. If I had to reduce your argument, it is "I'm mad I don't have the next book." I mean, I respect you sharing your opinion and view around your loathing of him. Not trying to be antagonistic. I am a big GRRM fan (I've almost read his entire catalogue of work) and I am a Tolkien fan (I read him first and re-read his work annually), but I often just find those arguments lacking.
I think seeing grace is just seeing the vision bestowed to us by the greater will, once you have played your part and the moment you are of no further purpose, you loose the grace, now when the tarnished starts seeing grace again, it's like they have started seeing a part for themselves in the lands between, by the greater will.
Actually we do know physically where some off the Tarnished wound up in after they left the lands between 1. Is the land of Reeds where they took part in the blood madness 2. The bad lands where Godfey returned to being a tribal cheiftan as horaux Lou And another mentions churches of the two fingers outside the lands between so I think the long march was a war to make a place for the Tarnished in these new lands
Do you have any sources? No item descriptions or dialogues ever mention tarnished going to the land of reeds. It's more likely the other way around - warriors from there becoming tarnished under Godfrey. Which is probably what happened to people like Yura and Okina. And "Badlands" sure sounds like a metaphorical name for a place straight out of Carl Gustav Jung for me... The churches of the fingers are mentioned in the Finger Maiden's set, but there is no reference to any tarnished. And I don't think the fingers cared about an random army of one of Marika's consort that much. I don't think they were that important, at least until the shattering. It is more likely that there "purpose" as "tarnished" has something to do with Marika - that she had a bigger plan and this army was but one cogwheel in that machine.
@@dave_marian Okina's armor Yura the starting class of Samurai's description What happened is the Tarnished mingled and Married outside the lands between and those decendents were called back along with the greatest champions from Godfrey's age You can't be Tarnished if you never had the grace of gold and people from outside the lands between never had it the Tarnished had a bloodline that still feels a bloodline connection to the grace that they lost you can't just become Tarnished that's not how that works
@@dave_marian it's the confessors and creepus items also goldmask was a philopher who had never seen the lands between he was just a decendent who used his mind to read the signs and know that the Tarnished would soon be called back you see his death with him writing out that formula in the intro cinematic Also we see the bad lands Horaux Lou is bound to a tree dead with tons of wounds and we actually see the place around him Hell Corrin was a priest who just saw the truth that the Erdtree's fate was to burn
A lot of misconceptions here. There is an item that clearly states marikia divested him of grace(aka took his goldek grace from him) when she banished him and the tarnished
It's not in an item, I think you talk about Melina's dialogue from the Third Church of Marika. To "divest" is a term frequently used to describe "laying down an official position". This choice of words can easily interpreted to simply mean Marika demoted Godfrey. And she could very purposefully have tried to word it in a way that makes you think she intended this to happen. It is even more controversial if you read the original Japanese, not the English translation. Now I'm not an expert in Japanese, but reading that passage feels like a way more generalized description, when she talks about grace. So no. Nothing "clear" about that ;)
@@dave_marian "divest" means "to deprive of." In Christian doctrine, "Grace" is given and taken regardless of whether you want it or not. So this likely has nothing to do with official positions and everything to do with Grace being given and taken regardless of one's will. As such, Godfrey's eyes dimmed and lost their golden hue by Marika's will.
There are several instances where it is said that marika took godfrey and the tarnished's grace. Why would you question this? This is probably one of the least questionable things we are told. You never give a reason why this would be a lie at all. You need a motivation at least for this claim. That being said its very clear to me that this was all apart of her plan to escape radigon(the greater will). Which is why she also told hewg to forge us tarnished a weapon for godslaying
Never said it's a lie, only that is everything but clear what exactly that means. You can still interpret it different ways. However I have to admit the DLC gives us **A LOT** more details that should be considered. Especially when it comes to "grace in eyes" ;)
Destined death is refering to your destiny. People die then are reborn(Godefroy into Godrick for example). When destined death was removed it stoled your destined rebirths. From that point on your next rebirth would be the one you started with as your future self incarnations are locked off from your soul. So you just remain your same self every time you're reborn. Marika did this (i belive) because she didnt want to become radigon, her destined self. However by removing the rune it didnt stop furure selfs from existing it just stopped you from turning into them so now the world is filled with both with is unnatural. Thats why garank and malikath exist. Radigon and Marika exist and so on. Either that ir by making radigon it required that the destined self rebirth was broken such that both could exist as she needed radigon to defeate renalia. This is also possible
I also think that's why this whole death of godwyn occured. She was trying to put radigon and death. Back into the rune but radigon stopped her! This caused it to fail and she lost her favorite son because he was supposed to die a proper death and be reborn properly. She freaked out and broke the ring and radigon imprisoned her for it
"Destined Death" = "Time." Placidusax, whose scales lightly twist time, exists in a storm *beyond* time. His god may have been the GEQ who is in charge of Destined Death/Time in a City/Mausoleum crumbling since time immemorial. If Time is removed from the world then it will stagnate like in Dark Souls and instead of being a time LINE now it's a time scatter plot which requires fingers touching in order for any two Tarnished to interact with their spirit/soul forms.
Jokes aside: I'm not sure, I'd have to look it up but as far as I know - in Old English "Ye" is a form of "you" that is either used for the plural you, or as a honorific.
@@dave_marian Oh, you're right. But I rmember hearing it can also be a misrepresentation of the former single character for "th" ye olde inn and the like
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The story is so abstract it’s wild they sat and thought up essentially a creation myth, for a world that doesn’t even work like ours. Such a strange and awesome world they’ve created
One thing I want to point out about the opening cinematic is that each of the tarnished named in the opening presents a potential age or solution to the shattering.
Gideon - age of fracture where we continue to struggle in a broken land.
Fia - age of the duskborn where we bring those who live in death into the current order and give them guidance they lack.
Gold mask - age of order where the elden ring is restored to its original form before the Marika started messing with it like removing the rune of death or Radagon with the rune of rebirth only this time with safety locks to stop it from being tampered with.
Dung eater - age of despair letting everything rot and suffer.
Horrah Loux- a return to the age of the crucible where once again anything that opposes him is crushed under his might
Us- The tarnished little renown that will be the one to crush all those that oppose us and usher in the next age whichever we choose.
If you read the description on the rusty anchor weapon it says that the tarnished set sail over the seas and only one vessel was left behind. I take this to mean that they did in fact leave the lands between, and not that Merika just killed them all.
That is in fact the strongest point against the theory.
I could counter by telling you to go to Limgrave ("First step" bonfire) go to the coast and look southwest-west. I wonder whose ships those shipwrecks are... :o
The most plot armor having trolls in the lands between.
Well done! Got me thinking a lot more about the origins of the Tarnished and how to start thinking about the collective.
I'm just trying to digest everything from the DLC so far. Damn... lot's of good lore *---*
Despite how much I despise GRRM he's really good at story telling from certain perspecrives, not knowing if what you're being told is true or only true from that characters pov. ASOIAF makes the point that history is written by the Maester's and they decide what's told and how to what's left out. Elden Ring seems like the perfect vehicle for that type of storytelling. With all the mysteries surrounding characters, events, who we are, etc. the deeper the dive the smoker the fig becomes.
Despise? :D What did he do?
But I agree, that kind of storytelling is something he is really good at and fits perfectly with Fromsoft games. If I remember correctly Martin once stated that his contribution to Elden Ring is smaller than most people think, however.
im curious as well, what did he do
@swapnilbiswas8254 IMO, he had the opportunity to be on the same level as Tolkien when we talk about: epic fantasy, world building, taking real-world events and adapting then for storytelling (aka The War of the Rose or 100 year war being used as the conflict between the Lannisters and Starks), or the idea of storytelling for certain points of view (like how the Maesters controlled the historical narrative and could omit or emblish details). Once I was hooked by the show I read the books 4 times listened to the audio books forward and backwards (1-5 5-1) all the time at work, read the Dunk and Egg novellas (which have 6 short stories left and the next one talks place at Winterfell 8+ years and counting), youtube all the lore from the awakening for the children to the tragedy of Summer Hall and my theory Cold Hands (in the books) is Dunk after he saved everyone he could be makes it out but is dying and the children find him and bury a shard of obsidian in his chest to change him. I love everything about this world its geography and its fictional people, and to know GRRM will never finish it, again in my opinion, undoes the potential of his legacy. It's been 13 years since John was stabbed in his last chapter with Ghost howling in his pen (also never read any of the pre-release chapters, Ser Barristan has a chapter at the back of the book and it wouldn't spoil Winds) if he wrote 3 chapters a year it wrote be finished by now.
I think he fell in love with the fame, comic cons, panels, etc. after years of struggling in the TV industry script writing. He's spent so much time focusing on other projects ASOIAF has been permanently shelved, I bet we get a reboot of the series before A Dream of Spring.
GRRM could have been the Tolkien of the modern era, but I think I dropped the ball and is incapable of finishing the story now. He's also said he won't let anyone finish his project if he dies, and then everything's left unresolved.
That's about it. He's killed my passion for his fantasy world and my money that comes with it through apathy. I don't wish him ill will. I just don't think very highly of him as a writer because I don't know him as a person.
@@jamesbee3087 Maybe ever thought that he wrote such a convoluted brought story with so many plots going on that he is just really unsure how to write it to a conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if he is mostly afraid to publish something that is not good enough ruining the entire thing.
Writing stuff for shows or shorter prequels is likely much easier to do
@@jamesbee3087 "to know GRRM will never finish it, again in my opinion, undoes the potential of his legacy."
You praise Tolkien but lament GRRM for this. Maybe you don't realize Tolkien never finished his work? Plenty of authors have never finished their work, yet it is praised as their legacy, etc. I never understood people's arguments surrounding this. If I had to reduce your argument, it is "I'm mad I don't have the next book."
I mean, I respect you sharing your opinion and view around your loathing of him. Not trying to be antagonistic. I am a big GRRM fan (I've almost read his entire catalogue of work) and I am a Tolkien fan (I read him first and re-read his work annually), but I often just find those arguments lacking.
I think seeing grace is just seeing the vision bestowed to us by the greater will, once you have played your part and the moment you are of no further purpose, you loose the grace, now when the tarnished starts seeing grace again, it's like they have started seeing a part for themselves in the lands between, by the greater will.
I agree! Only think that due to the Greater Will not being able to act directly in the lands between Marika does have some influence on that process.
Oh ...rise ye tarnished the most fearsome character in the lands between..rise and become the boss these lands deserve
Actually we do know physically where some off the Tarnished wound up in after they left the lands between
1. Is the land of Reeds where they took part in the blood madness
2. The bad lands where Godfey returned to being a tribal cheiftan as horaux Lou
And another mentions churches of the two fingers outside the lands between so I think the long march was a war to make a place for the Tarnished in these new lands
Do you have any sources? No item descriptions or dialogues ever mention tarnished going to the land of reeds. It's more likely the other way around - warriors from there becoming tarnished under Godfrey. Which is probably what happened to people like Yura and Okina.
And "Badlands" sure sounds like a metaphorical name for a place straight out of Carl Gustav Jung for me...
The churches of the fingers are mentioned in the Finger Maiden's set, but there is no reference to any tarnished. And I don't think the fingers cared about an random army of one of Marika's consort that much. I don't think they were that important, at least until the shattering. It is more likely that there "purpose" as "tarnished" has something to do with Marika - that she had a bigger plan and this army was but one cogwheel in that machine.
@@dave_marian Okina's armor Yura the starting class of Samurai's description
What happened is the Tarnished mingled and Married outside the lands between and those decendents were called back along with the greatest champions from Godfrey's age
You can't be Tarnished if you never had the grace of gold and people from outside the lands between never had it the Tarnished had a bloodline that still feels a bloodline connection to the grace that they lost you can't just become Tarnished that's not how that works
@@dave_marian it's the confessors and creepus items also goldmask was a philopher who had never seen the lands between he was just a decendent who used his mind to read the signs and know that the Tarnished would soon be called back you see his death with him writing out that formula in the intro cinematic
Also we see the bad lands Horaux Lou is bound to a tree dead with tons of wounds and we actually see the place around him
Hell Corrin was a priest who just saw the truth that the Erdtree's fate was to burn
@@dave_marian also it doesn't mention going to just comming from which necessitates the other
@Sylentmana sorry I tend to not think about that stuff before hand
A lot of misconceptions here. There is an item that clearly states marikia divested him of grace(aka took his goldek grace from him) when she banished him and the tarnished
It's not in an item, I think you talk about Melina's dialogue from the Third Church of Marika.
To "divest" is a term frequently used to describe "laying down an official position". This choice of words can easily interpreted to simply mean Marika demoted Godfrey. And she could very purposefully have tried to word it in a way that makes you think she intended this to happen.
It is even more controversial if you read the original Japanese, not the English translation. Now I'm not an expert in Japanese, but reading that passage feels like a way more generalized description, when she talks about grace.
So no. Nothing "clear" about that ;)
@@dave_marian "divest" means "to deprive of." In Christian doctrine, "Grace" is given and taken regardless of whether you want it or not. So this likely has nothing to do with official positions and everything to do with Grace being given and taken regardless of one's will. As such, Godfrey's eyes dimmed and lost their golden hue by Marika's will.
There are several instances where it is said that marika took godfrey and the tarnished's grace. Why would you question this? This is probably one of the least questionable things we are told. You never give a reason why this would be a lie at all. You need a motivation at least for this claim.
That being said its very clear to me that this was all apart of her plan to escape radigon(the greater will). Which is why she also told hewg to forge us tarnished a weapon for godslaying
Never said it's a lie, only that is everything but clear what exactly that means. You can still interpret it different ways.
However I have to admit the DLC gives us **A LOT** more details that should be considered. Especially when it comes to "grace in eyes" ;)
Destined death is refering to your destiny. People die then are reborn(Godefroy into Godrick for example). When destined death was removed it stoled your destined rebirths. From that point on your next rebirth would be the one you started with as your future self incarnations are locked off from your soul. So you just remain your same self every time you're reborn. Marika did this (i belive) because she didnt want to become radigon, her destined self. However by removing the rune it didnt stop furure selfs from existing it just stopped you from turning into them so now the world is filled with both with is unnatural. Thats why garank and malikath exist. Radigon and Marika exist and so on. Either that ir by making radigon it required that the destined self rebirth was broken such that both could exist as she needed radigon to defeate renalia. This is also possible
Which is also why renalia has the rebirth rune!
I also think that's why this whole death of godwyn occured. She was trying to put radigon and death. Back into the rune but radigon stopped her! This caused it to fail and she lost her favorite son because he was supposed to die a proper death and be reborn properly. She freaked out and broke the ring and radigon imprisoned her for it
I find this really insightful.
This comment needs to be shown to crunchy
"Destined Death" = "Time." Placidusax, whose scales lightly twist time, exists in a storm *beyond* time. His god may have been the GEQ who is in charge of Destined Death/Time in a City/Mausoleum crumbling since time immemorial. If Time is removed from the world then it will stagnate like in Dark Souls and instead of being a time LINE now it's a time scatter plot which requires fingers touching in order for any two Tarnished to interact with their spirit/soul forms.
Cool video!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Isn't obvious the tarnished is the chosen undead
Not to be confused with the *Yarnish* who are yarn people that come from nylar 7.
Damn neutrals.
A couple fundamental misunderstandings in this video, but good effort.
You wanna point them out? :) I'm quite curious.
Only noobs call sites of grace bonfires. Veterans call them archstones.
Isn't "ye" a misrepresentation of "þe" actually meaning "the"?
Ye is an American rapper, singer, songwriter, record producer, and fashion designer formerly known as Kanye West.
Jokes aside: I'm not sure, I'd have to look it up but as far as I know - in Old English "Ye" is a form of "you" that is either used for the plural you, or as a honorific.
@@dave_marian Oh, you're right. But I rmember hearing it can also be a misrepresentation of the former single character for "th"
ye olde inn and the like
didnt you hear? the tarnished are foul and maidenless.
Tell me more!