I don't know all I'm saying is Azazel needs to take Mystique, Destiny, and Nightcrawler to Maury and find out who the baby daddy is cuz that man Azazel swears that's his baby and he wants to be in his life and that's a hard thing to find nowadays
@@cleaveuntome42 I swear on the One Above All that's my baby he even has my powers she been telling me for years that's my baby I can't believe she did this to me but it don't matter I'm going to be there for him anyway because that's my baby start crying
Not talking about the Nightcrawler thing, but in general retcons are not new reader friendly, they actually tend to make things more convoluted. They refer to and expand on past stuff that new readers don't have the context for. Retcons are going to happen, but Marvel and DC should be more selective than they are (again, not specifically talking about this retcon, I haven't read it). And this is coming from someone who has only been reading comics for 4 years. Keep in mind, people don't start comics with the most recent issue on the stands nowadays anyways. It should be easy to follow over the decades
Yes, retcons make comics impenetrable and especially so whenever they retcon stuff many times, like here; some count is the father and Mystique is the mother, no, Azazel is the father and Mystique is the mother, no, Mystique is the father and Destiny is the mother but that count and Azazel are still also kind of the father genetically. Or the Maximoff twins where some Roma couple are the parents, no couple superheroes from the golden age are the parents, no Magneto and his wife are the parents, no their parents are some unknown bad guy and a Roma witch who is related to that Roma couple who we thought to be the parents at first but weren’t, oh and they aren’t even mutants even thought they have always been. It gets so convoluted and messy. Many non-comic fans would view this kind of stuff as the stories jumping the shark. And too often it’s not even done for the sake of a good story, like the Maximoff twins being retconned from being mutants and Magneto’s children simply because of corporate bs.
@CinemaniacComicsCorner wow, then yeah I am talking about the Nightcrawler thing too then lol. That's a headache to keep track of lol. I don't read X-men bc Marvel/DC comics are so convoluted that I have to narrow my range. Spider-Man is enough effort as is, so I mostly just fill in the rest if my reading with more obscure characters that are easier to follow like Azrael or Silver Surfer
Honestly I think it's better for the character, I prefer him just being a mutant that happens to look like a devil than a literal half demon, makes him much less interesting imo
Thank you sal for talking about the times street level Spider-Man fights giant spider slayers in brings home alien costumes XD You know I kind of always figured mystique could just change in a way to produce, there's also another conversation about okay she did want him what does that mean on why she gave him away but of course some people are more focused on the retcon itself on who the father is not what this could or does mean. (I never got time to read so I don't have the answer )
24:53 ...oh yeah, that actually makes sense as a possiblity of the Snyderverse fandrom attempting to make an AI movie or at least some rough moving stills. it might take a few months with the whole AI improvement thing to pull off. as well as them scouring for the proper prompts to test and pull it off. it'd certainly be...something. not sure if it'd be good. but i'm sure it'd be impressive in some respect.
I can't believe what happened to The Marvels, it's way more deserving of box office success than anything that's come out of the Venom-verse, I'm just baffled that's a series of movies that continues to exist. For me I enjoyed it way more than Love&Thunder/Quantumania and they were both financial successes despite their flaws, which stack a lot higher than anything objectively wrong with The Marvels. I can understand MCU burnout, but mostly think it's down to toxic elements in the fandom, we all saw the RT review bombing opening weekend. I'm hoping it's better appreciated when it hits streaming.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but Azazel was straight up killed 2 weeks after this one shot came out. He got eaten alive by an alternative version of Nightcrawler to be more specific.
I have a policy of blocking UA-cam channels that put casting spoilers in the title/thumbnail. Unless the trailer spoilers me I've gotten pretty good at avoiding knowing too much.
Breaking news!!! Snyder just had an interview saying he , “Would absolutely continue his story if Netflix had the rights to the DCEU characters.” Time to have another conversation. See y’all next week.😂
I think they framed it as gene editing, so she can "paint" as she put it with genes, I think if she were to alter her own X-gene she could get any power she's encountered but would a probably lose her power, to shapeshift (like Sal's comment about becoming a human). In the comic she altered her gametes which wouldn't be her own genes but genes she could pass on, and she can again paint with the palettes of those she has come into contact with. Which explains why nightcrawler has Azazel's powers.
Nightcrawler doesn't just have Azazel's powers : He has his weaknesses (very rare from ancient times) and his appearance both mutant and when depowered as it is the human disguise Azazel has, which is made from traits that could not have possibly come from either of Mystique or Destiny (blue eyes which are recessive and black hair which is dominant). Nightcrawler also answers to Azazel's mind control and soul tie which are abilities Azazel can only use on his own biological direct children (50% DNA match). If Mystique was truly Nightcrawler's father, Nightcrawler falling for Azazel's abilities time and time again even in death should not have been possible in the first place. Which means Mystique pretty much ejected herself from Nightcrawler's gene pool. Not even her golden eyes or blue coloring were passed down to Nightcrawler because he has Azazel's night vision which she lacks and Azazel has had blue children in the past (you got that Nightcrawler Chimera from PoX called Cardinal who's just Azazel with red hair and red eyes, meaning Nightcrawler does carry Azazel's pigmentation in his very DNA).
Dan is completely right. I didn't even consider that option for the marvels. That's smart. That would have been a 5 brain move for sure. That being said, now that the movie is out and I've seen it. I don't think it's worth putting money and effort back peddling to turn it into a series. But if that had been the initial directions from the start. It might have made bigger waves, and possibly more well received. Then again, the sparse quality of rapid firing Disney plus series are how we got to this lowl of comicbook burnout in the first place.. so maybe not.
For anyone upset about Azazel not being Kurt’s dad think about it this way. In a way he kinda is just on a genetic level similar to how Hank Pym is the genetic father of Tigra’s son when a Skrull impersonated him.
It doesn't work tho. Because Azazel has abilities that only work on his direct biological children (50% DNA match needed) and they have been shown to also work on Nightcrawler in the same exact way, like Mind-control and soul anchoring. If Mystique is truly Nightcrawler's father now, All those tricks Azazel pulled on Nightcrawler would not have been possible. Which means Mystique directly took herself off of Nightcrawler's genetic material through this retcon.
I understand the vitriol about the mystique thing. I'm personally willing to allow it provided it is used to further the storytelling. If it was only done to make this one issue explode, not sure I'm cool with that.
I only don't like it because it was a lot of hoopla just to upgrade Mystique's powers. Even on the point Dan brought up about Kurt possibly having other siblings (which he had through both Mystique and Azazel), nothing changes based on this retcon and there's no real narrative paths that this opened up (outside of Mystique's powers). I hope they do end up doing something narratively interesting with it, but I doubt it
One of the big problems with The Marvels is Brie Larson, because of just how mean and adversarial she was in the lead up to her own movie. That burned a TON of bridges. A decent number of people refuse, now, to see anything she is in because of that.
Getting mad at Mystique becoming a man, boy people were loud about that when she did the same thing in the X-men movies... right? no? I guess they're just mad now like Sal said, because thy were already mad and use one pointless thing to fuel it.
I think The Marvels and Blue Beetle should of done better than they did. Blue beetle is better than most DC movies. The Flash would of broke a billion if the 3rd act was better.
is it weird i just assumed Mystique was both parents when I was a kid? Azazael was like never around and no one else looked like those two to me. I feel kinda validated yet still wrong
when talking about box office everyone always seems to forget that Americans are doing bad right now. almost the entire world is doing bad right now. The pandemic is over but the financial lackings are not. also streaming if I can save money by waiting 3 months for my family to see it then I will save that money
I like Sal, and I see where he is coming from. But I feel his take on everything. Comes from the fact his world view is similar to those that write a lot of the comics. Some people take issue with. To some of us, mystique being able to procreate as a man. Is just the next trans fantasy come true. And yshing the agenda of " well what really is a man and a woman " And I just don't see how he as a guy as well spoken and smart as he seems to be. Just doesn't understand a bunch of people. Will never agree with this world view, because even tho we love comics. We love logic aswell, the leaps and bounds you have to take to make this make any sembelence of sense is ridiculous to me, and makes mystiques power set just way to convoluted now. To explain something nobody wanted changed is all. It's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it.
The thing is when people tend to talk about “world views” that they cling to, it tends to indicate a lack of empathy for and understanding of a counter view point or even way of life. You’re complaining about fantasy based characters in a fantasy story in a fantasy world couched in a semblance of realism. It sounds more like since a minority group you don’t like has possibly been given some kind of representation in a narrative universe that has been primarily depicted as heteronormative narrative/fantasy your upset. For someone complaining about leaps in logic in a fantasy It seems you are making some yourself. As far as no one asking for it, Claremont asked for it and it was accepted as unofficial cannon by many fans for years. It is not a change for change sake and it didn’t come out of no where. A bunch a of marginalized people ask for some kind of representation everyday. Representation may not mean much to you because you may see people like you in pop culture all the time but it does mean something to people who don’t. Mystique isn’t even a great character for representation, she’s still pretty villainous. Why should story tellers adjust their narrative to suit your world view to appease you and make you feel comfortable all of the time. Marvel Comics used to promote itself as “The World Outside Your Window” I hate to break it to you but there are all kinds of people with different world views and LGBTQ people outside your window. At least metaphorically.
@@sbhughes04 i think it's just that he doesn't think the change was well written enough to back up the idea. as he stated, "It's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it." i don't think he hates the change because of a certain minority. again this type of argument has happened before, so it's not anything new. there are probably some changes in comics that you don't like either. for example: the aging up jon kent and making him BI: remember the news headlines of superman is gay now and the backlash that created. there were many different reactions being fans thought it was change for the sake of change or fans wanting 10 year old jon kent to return. now are there some people that hate the change because they are homophobic: sure. but that doesn't mean, everyone who dislike certain changes = they hate a certain minority getting representation remember when the only wally west in the new 52 wasn't the one in post crisis and OG wally west fans were upset. most hated the new 52 wally west, at the time, because it wasn't the old version. the reaction to them were that those fans didn't like a certain minority getting representation.
Well… when you state you don’t agree with the world view of the writer of the comic, who has won a GLAAD award for his work, and supports the LGBTQ community, using logic as he purports to use, I may assume that while he may not hate the people in that community, he at the very least, is unsympathetic to them, their perspective, and experiences. He takes issue with writers who “push agendas”. If it was purely the quality of the writing I really don’t think this would have been mentioned.
@@sbhughes04 what i'm talking about is that he has stated that he doesn't like the quality of the writing. i mean he said, "leaps and bounds you have to take to make this make any sembelence of sense is ridiculous to me, and makes mystiques power set just way to convoluted now. To explain something nobody wanted changed is all." this quote is about how the quality of the writing doesn't back up the ideas that the writer wants to articulate; this makes mystique more of a convoluted character. his last quote being, "it's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it." he doesn't believe the change was needed in the first place. and more to my point that you didn't answer, are there changes that you don't like but others do? if so, you can understand why others wouldn't like certain changes to characters. as i've stated before A LOT of fans want jon kent to be 10 years old again; mind you like jon kent being aged up, but i know that there are fans that won't like the change because they want the old to remain. how about this one, when tim drake came out as BI. some tim drake fans hated that dc retcon the idea that he is now gay. does that make those fans homophobic because they don't think the changes to the character actually enhances them? for me, i don't think so.
Not liking a change to a character like their sexuality, especially when you grew up identifying with a character like Tim Drake, doesn’t make person homophobic. That has little to do with Mystique, a character that’s been coded as LGBTQ from their creation. And it doesn’t sound like this guy felt that way about her the way some do about Tim Drake. You keep emphasizing the last quarter of this guys post while almost ignoring the first three quarters of it. It’s disingenuous to argue the whole issue he has is the quality of the writing when it obviously isn’t his only issue. Sure, there are retcons I don’t like. Everyone has ones they don’t like but they bear little relevance to the discussion at hand. We can debate if the additional information about how her powers work make it more convoluted or not. To me it’s just additional information that makes sense in the way it’s explained in the narrative. If you want to pick that apart you can pick almost anything about any of these characters and pick it apart.
I wish they would just stop retconning everything though. And stop changing characters that have existed for 50 years... Nightcrawler, Ice-Man, Tim Drake and also Jon Kent. Like this is the reason why comics are failing. This is also why I love Mark Waid's World's Finest, it respects the characters, great storytelling, for everyone around the world. It understands these characters and why people like them. Where is these other stupid retcons are very political and based on white western ideas of morality forced on others. sorry but just because you share these opinions doesn't mean others do.
Honestly I just don't get why people are freaking out over nightcrawlers father when most people only know him from a movie in a universe where they never touch on the fact that their mother and son And I'm not even a fan of the mystique destiny relationship too much but I but I care way more about that than Azrael
@@flashtheshapeshafterit's just that some fans don't like change, even if you think the change is good. this idea isn't anything new to comics. there are some changes that you probably don't like and still don't like. this type of argument has been going on since forever in comics. for example: introduction of Damian wayne, death of alfred, aging up jon kent, bring back barry allen, the changes to characters in the new 52, the changes in the all new and all different era of marvel comics etc. all of these examples are changes to the main comic universe from the big 2 that people either hate or love.
Everything changes in time, to expect characters to remain unchanging through decades of media is dumb. You want to read the same people act the same way over the same things for decades? By all means, re-read your favourite comics.
@@Bananahammock681 i mean there are a lot fans that want their characters to always act the same way and not change. there are probably changes to characters, that you don't like too. For example: the fans that want jon kent to be 10 again, want alfred to return, wanted post crisis dc to return during the new 52, cap to not be a hydra agent, not wanting the new legacy characters but only the old ones in all new all different era of marvel, fans wanting batman to a loner again, fans wanting batman comics to be grounded detective stories again, want damian to not exist etc.
Sal literally has chemistry with everyone 😭 it’s dope
I love how comical and emoting Sal is during the introduction at the beginning..
@@Toki-Raltehe said once that he gets those mannerisms from Silent Bob, you’re apart of the conversation while not interrupting the speaker.
@@Jones25ful oh? that's cool.. way better than being stonefaced or grinning like a schmuck, i guess.. 😂
I don't know all I'm saying is Azazel needs to take Mystique, Destiny, and Nightcrawler to Maury and find out who the baby daddy is cuz that man Azazel swears that's his baby and he wants to be in his life and that's a hard thing to find nowadays
"Thats my baby!! Look at the tail and ears!! *Azazel starts crying*
@@cleaveuntome42 I swear on the One Above All that's my baby he even has my powers she been telling me for years that's my baby I can't believe she did this to me but it don't matter I'm going to be there for him anyway because that's my baby start crying
This comment took me out 😂😂😂😂
Best part is, the test won't matter because it's still his DNA either way
@@hikerchris7164 I don't think it is did they say that did I skip something
Dan's plushy table is the best thing to ever happen in comics
So X-Men has Sage who is a mentat and now Mystique is a Bene Gesserit.
Certainly glad Dans job was saved
I like hearing Dan and Sal talk.
I agree
Darn, seeing these two together had me hoping for a Sal ad read.
I'm not even angry at the change but something about this change just feels weird but lets see if it gets any form of development in the future.
Not talking about the Nightcrawler thing, but in general retcons are not new reader friendly, they actually tend to make things more convoluted. They refer to and expand on past stuff that new readers don't have the context for. Retcons are going to happen, but Marvel and DC should be more selective than they are (again, not specifically talking about this retcon, I haven't read it). And this is coming from someone who has only been reading comics for 4 years. Keep in mind, people don't start comics with the most recent issue on the stands nowadays anyways. It should be easy to follow over the decades
Yes, retcons make comics impenetrable and especially so whenever they retcon stuff many times, like here; some count is the father and Mystique is the mother, no, Azazel is the father and Mystique is the mother, no, Mystique is the father and Destiny is the mother but that count and Azazel are still also kind of the father genetically. Or the Maximoff twins where some Roma couple are the parents, no couple superheroes from the golden age are the parents, no Magneto and his wife are the parents, no their parents are some unknown bad guy and a Roma witch who is related to that Roma couple who we thought to be the parents at first but weren’t, oh and they aren’t even mutants even thought they have always been. It gets so convoluted and messy. Many non-comic fans would view this kind of stuff as the stories jumping the shark. And too often it’s not even done for the sake of a good story, like the Maximoff twins being retconned from being mutants and Magneto’s children simply because of corporate bs.
@CinemaniacComicsCorner wow, then yeah I am talking about the Nightcrawler thing too then lol. That's a headache to keep track of lol.
I don't read X-men bc Marvel/DC comics are so convoluted that I have to narrow my range. Spider-Man is enough effort as is, so I mostly just fill in the rest if my reading with more obscure characters that are easier to follow like Azrael or Silver Surfer
Honestly I think it's better for the character, I prefer him just being a mutant that happens to look like a devil than a literal half demon, makes him much less interesting imo
Great discussion as always, guys, and I definitely agree with a lot of things that were said
Thank you sal for talking about the times street level Spider-Man fights giant spider slayers in brings home alien costumes XD
You know I kind of always figured mystique could just change in a way to produce, there's also another conversation about okay she did want him what does that mean on why she gave him away but of course some people are more focused on the retcon itself on who the father is not what this could or does mean. (I never got time to read so I don't have the answer )
Chomsky wrote about "manufacturing consent". Now, its about manufacturing outrage, even in pop culture.
24:53
...oh yeah, that actually makes sense as a possiblity of the Snyderverse fandrom attempting to make an AI movie or at least some rough moving stills.
it might take a few months with the whole AI improvement thing to pull off. as well as them scouring for the proper prompts to test and pull it off.
it'd certainly be...something. not sure if it'd be good. but i'm sure it'd be impressive in some respect.
If the Snyderverse is never restored officially, I could see a fanmade animation (possibly assisted by AI) being created in place of it.
Holy shit that'd be atrocious
I can't believe what happened to The Marvels, it's way more deserving of box office success than anything that's come out of the Venom-verse, I'm just baffled that's a series of movies that continues to exist.
For me I enjoyed it way more than Love&Thunder/Quantumania and they were both financial successes despite their flaws, which stack a lot higher than anything objectively wrong with The Marvels.
I can understand MCU burnout, but mostly think it's down to toxic elements in the fandom, we all saw the RT review bombing opening weekend.
I'm hoping it's better appreciated when it hits streaming.
I actually want to know more about Azazel so I am a lil sad he is less likely to be used
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but Azazel was straight up killed 2 weeks after this one shot came out.
He got eaten alive by an alternative version of Nightcrawler to be more specific.
If you want to know more I might be able to answer your questions with the best of my abilities and knowledge.
I have a policy of blocking UA-cam channels that put casting spoilers in the title/thumbnail. Unless the trailer spoilers me I've gotten pretty good at avoiding knowing too much.
24:04 I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a comic adaptation, less likely to have wooden fan film acting
Breaking news!!! Snyder just had an interview saying he , “Would absolutely continue his story if Netflix had the rights to the DCEU characters.”
Time to have another conversation. See y’all next week.😂
With what he did with rebel moon no way I'd trust him to continue any kind of dceu
I think they framed it as gene editing, so she can "paint" as she put it with genes, I think if she were to alter her own X-gene she could get any power she's encountered but would a probably lose her power, to shapeshift (like Sal's comment about becoming a human). In the comic she altered her gametes which wouldn't be her own genes but genes she could pass on, and she can again paint with the palettes of those she has come into contact with. Which explains why nightcrawler has Azazel's powers.
Nightcrawler doesn't just have Azazel's powers :
He has his weaknesses (very rare from ancient times) and his appearance both mutant and when depowered as it is the human disguise Azazel has, which is made from traits that could not have possibly come from either of Mystique or Destiny (blue eyes which are recessive and black hair which is dominant).
Nightcrawler also answers to Azazel's mind control and soul tie which are abilities Azazel can only use on his own biological direct children (50% DNA match).
If Mystique was truly Nightcrawler's father,
Nightcrawler falling for Azazel's abilities time and time again even in death should not have been possible in the first place.
Which means Mystique pretty much ejected herself from Nightcrawler's gene pool.
Not even her golden eyes or blue coloring were passed down to Nightcrawler because he has Azazel's night vision which she lacks and Azazel has had blue children in the past (you got that Nightcrawler Chimera from PoX called Cardinal who's just Azazel with red hair and red eyes, meaning Nightcrawler does carry Azazel's pigmentation in his very DNA).
Dan is completely right. I didn't even consider that option for the marvels. That's smart. That would have been a 5 brain move for sure. That being said, now that the movie is out and I've seen it. I don't think it's worth putting money and effort back peddling to turn it into a series. But if that had been the initial directions from the start. It might have made bigger waves, and possibly more well received. Then again, the sparse quality of rapid firing Disney plus series are how we got to this lowl of comicbook burnout in the first place.. so maybe not.
For anyone upset about Azazel not being Kurt’s dad think about it this way. In a way he kinda is just on a genetic level similar to how Hank Pym is the genetic father of Tigra’s son when a Skrull impersonated him.
It doesn't work tho.
Because Azazel has abilities that only work on his direct biological children (50% DNA match needed) and they have been shown to also work on Nightcrawler in the same exact way, like Mind-control and soul anchoring.
If Mystique is truly Nightcrawler's father now,
All those tricks Azazel pulled on Nightcrawler would not have been possible.
Which means Mystique directly took herself off of Nightcrawler's genetic material through this retcon.
I need Sal to run my studio 😀
The Fugitive is my favorite movie 🎦 of all time time
23:33 If Superman: Legacy bombs, it'll be the most annoying day of my life.
I understand the vitriol about the mystique thing. I'm personally willing to allow it provided it is used to further the storytelling. If it was only done to make this one issue explode, not sure I'm cool with that.
I only don't like it because it was a lot of hoopla just to upgrade Mystique's powers. Even on the point Dan brought up about Kurt possibly having other siblings (which he had through both Mystique and Azazel), nothing changes based on this retcon and there's no real narrative paths that this opened up (outside of Mystique's powers). I hope they do end up doing something narratively interesting with it, but I doubt it
One of the big problems with The Marvels is Brie Larson, because of just how mean and adversarial she was in the lead up to her own movie. That burned a TON of bridges. A decent number of people refuse, now, to see anything she is in because of that.
What's wrong with fandoms? There are currently people really toxically mad about the new Godzilla x Kong trailer because Godzilla was glowing pink
Godzilla still looks badass. Also its reference to a previous movie. I'm still hyped for the movie.
Manufacturing outrage.
Getting mad at Mystique becoming a man, boy people were loud about that when she did the same thing in the X-men movies... right? no? I guess they're just mad now like Sal said, because thy were already mad and use one pointless thing to fuel it.
I think The Marvels and Blue Beetle should of done better than they did. Blue beetle is better than most DC movies. The Flash would of broke a billion if the 3rd act was better.
The quality of a movie doesn't equate to box office numbers
👍
is it weird i just assumed Mystique was both parents when I was a kid? Azazael was like never around and no one else looked like those two to me. I feel kinda validated yet still wrong
Of course his not the dad red and blue together makes purple
Ha good one.
Azazel's got blue kids of his own tho so maybe he's been pretending to be a partial redhead this whole time.
Felt like a little self reflection or reporting on this one. Just a little bit. Perhaps from their early comic days
when talking about box office everyone always seems to forget that Americans are doing bad right now. almost the entire world is doing bad right now. The pandemic is over but the financial lackings are not. also streaming if I can save money by waiting 3 months for my family to see it then I will save that money
Of the 3 i thought ms marvel was by far the worse and so annoying. Really like monica and thought carol was meh.
Noice!
I agree Sal x men night crawl two mom the marvels story not good i fan Zach Snyder thanks Zach less drama
Those were words
I like Sal, and I see where he is coming from. But I feel his take on everything. Comes from the fact his world view is similar to those that write a lot of the comics. Some people take issue with.
To some of us, mystique being able to procreate as a man. Is just the next trans fantasy come true. And yshing the agenda of " well what really is a man and a woman "
And I just don't see how he as a guy as well spoken and smart as he seems to be. Just doesn't understand a bunch of people. Will never agree with this world view, because even tho we love comics. We love logic aswell, the leaps and bounds you have to take to make this make any sembelence of sense is ridiculous to me, and makes mystiques power set just way to convoluted now. To explain something nobody wanted changed is all.
It's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it.
The thing is when people tend to talk about “world views” that they cling to, it tends to indicate a lack of empathy for and understanding of a counter view point or even way of life. You’re complaining about fantasy based characters in a fantasy story in a fantasy world couched in a semblance of realism. It sounds more like since a minority group you don’t like has possibly been given some kind of representation in a narrative universe that has been primarily depicted as heteronormative narrative/fantasy your upset. For someone complaining about leaps in logic in a fantasy It seems you are making some yourself.
As far as no one asking for it, Claremont asked for it and it was accepted as unofficial cannon by many fans for years. It is not a change for change sake and it didn’t come out of no where. A bunch a of marginalized people ask for some kind of representation everyday. Representation may not mean much to you because you may see people like you in pop culture all the time but it does mean something to people who don’t. Mystique isn’t even a great character for representation, she’s still pretty villainous.
Why should story tellers adjust their narrative to suit your world view to appease you and make you feel comfortable all of the time. Marvel Comics used to promote itself as “The World Outside Your Window” I hate to break it to you but there are all kinds of people with different world views and LGBTQ people outside your window. At least metaphorically.
@@sbhughes04 i think it's just that he doesn't think the change was well written enough to back up the idea. as he stated, "It's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it." i don't think he hates the change because of a certain minority. again this type of argument has happened before, so it's not anything new. there are probably some changes in comics that you don't like either.
for example: the aging up jon kent and making him BI: remember the news headlines of superman is gay now and the backlash that created. there were many different reactions being fans thought it was change for the sake of change or fans wanting 10 year old jon kent to return. now are there some people that hate the change because they are homophobic: sure. but that doesn't mean, everyone who dislike certain changes = they hate a certain minority getting representation
remember when the only wally west in the new 52 wasn't the one in post crisis and OG wally west fans were upset. most hated the new 52 wally west, at the time, because it wasn't the old version. the reaction to them were that those fans didn't like a certain minority getting representation.
Well… when you state you don’t agree with the world view of the writer of the comic, who has won a GLAAD award for his work, and supports the LGBTQ community, using logic as he purports to use, I may assume that while he may not hate the people in that community, he at the very least, is unsympathetic to them, their perspective, and experiences. He takes issue with writers who “push agendas”. If it was purely the quality of the writing I really don’t think this would have been mentioned.
@@sbhughes04 what i'm talking about is that he has stated that he doesn't like the quality of the writing. i mean he said, "leaps and bounds you have to take to make this make any sembelence of sense is ridiculous to me, and makes mystiques power set just way to convoluted now. To explain something nobody wanted changed is all." this quote is about how the quality of the writing doesn't back up the ideas that the writer wants to articulate; this makes mystique more of a convoluted character. his last quote being, "it's change for the sake of chance and that's why people don't like it." he doesn't believe the change was needed in the first place.
and more to my point that you didn't answer, are there changes that you don't like but others do? if so, you can understand why others wouldn't like certain changes to characters. as i've stated before A LOT of fans want jon kent to be 10 years old again; mind you like jon kent being aged up, but i know that there are fans that won't like the change because they want the old to remain.
how about this one, when tim drake came out as BI. some tim drake fans hated that dc retcon the idea that he is now gay. does that make those fans homophobic because they don't think the changes to the character actually enhances them? for me, i don't think so.
Not liking a change to a character like their sexuality, especially when you grew up identifying with a character like Tim Drake, doesn’t make person homophobic. That has little to do with Mystique, a character that’s been coded as LGBTQ from their creation. And it doesn’t sound like this guy felt that way about her the way some do about Tim Drake.
You keep emphasizing the last quarter of this guys post while almost ignoring the first three quarters of it. It’s disingenuous to argue the whole issue he has is the quality of the writing when it obviously isn’t his only issue.
Sure, there are retcons I don’t like. Everyone has ones they don’t like but they bear little relevance to the discussion at hand.
We can debate if the additional information about how her powers work make it more convoluted or not. To me it’s just additional information that makes sense in the way it’s explained in the narrative. If you want to pick that apart you can pick almost anything about any of these characters and pick it apart.
I wish they would just stop retconning everything though. And stop changing characters that have existed for 50 years... Nightcrawler, Ice-Man, Tim Drake and also Jon Kent.
Like this is the reason why comics are failing. This is also why I love Mark Waid's World's Finest, it respects the characters, great storytelling, for everyone around the world. It understands these characters and why people like them. Where is these other stupid retcons are very political and based on white western ideas of morality forced on others. sorry but just because you share these opinions doesn't mean others do.
um, jon kent wasn't created 50 years ago
Honestly I just don't get why people are freaking out over nightcrawlers father when most people only know him from a movie in a universe where they never touch on the fact that their mother and son
And I'm not even a fan of the mystique destiny relationship too much but I but I care way more about that than Azrael
@@flashtheshapeshafterit's just that some fans don't like change, even if you think the change is good. this idea isn't anything new to comics. there are some changes that you probably don't like and still don't like. this type of argument has been going on since forever in comics.
for example: introduction of Damian wayne, death of alfred, aging up jon kent, bring back barry allen, the changes to characters in the new 52, the changes in the all new and all different era of marvel comics etc. all of these examples are changes to the main comic universe from the big 2 that people either hate or love.
Everything changes in time, to expect characters to remain unchanging through decades of media is dumb. You want to read the same people act the same way over the same things for decades? By all means, re-read your favourite comics.
@@Bananahammock681 i mean there are a lot fans that want their characters to always act the same way and not change. there are probably changes to characters, that you don't like too.
For example: the fans that want jon kent to be 10 again, want alfred to return, wanted post crisis dc to return during the new 52, cap to not be a hydra agent, not wanting the new legacy characters but only the old ones in all new all different era of marvel, fans wanting batman to a loner again, fans wanting batman comics to be grounded detective stories again, want damian to not exist etc.
Happy to hear your still employed Dan! Need to join the Patreon still glad you guys are still here 🫶🫶❤️🩹🫶