It literally just clicked that the reason Ares seems to walk out from a desert like terrain is because Athena's hourglass was broken when he approaches....
I think Ares and Athena (as the gods of both sides of war, the anger, passion, and bravery of the common soldier vs the cold calculus of a general fighting a war through strategic maneuvering, both sides are necessary to winning a war) have such an interesting relationship to each other as siblings, so different, both on opposite sides of how to handle a conflict, but are still sides of, if not the same coin, then similar ones and therefore need each other and understand each other because of their domains
@@idgarobingoodfellow I love their relationship too, its so interesting to see how they both approach the problem differently, but can eventually come to even ground
Fun fact: Jorge intentionally gave Hera a groovy, disco-esque theme in this song, hence the “groovy” at the beginning. This, along with the “Hey, Baby” at the beginning of her part of the song, implies the fact that she is of a literal and metaphorical “older generation” of gods than Athena, and therefore, considers herself above Athena, in a maternal sense, and treating Athena like a child who is trying to play in the “big leagues”, in a sense.
Zeus totally tried to rig the game. Nearly all of the gods Athena had to convince sided with Troy in the Trojan War. Hephaestus and Hera sided with the Greeks.
Yep, the Trojan War was basically just a huge sibling rivalry civil war between the gods, although Zeus cheated and helped both sides. Zeus' infidelity isn't just toward Hera.
Plus the only two that sided with the Greeks would have personal grievances with Athena; Hera wouldn’t be very fond of her because of Zeus’s infidelity, and Hephaestus due to her rejection and his general unhappiness with the rest of the pantheon. The gods are also very petty so would vote on opposing sides purely out of spite, so you could also look at the grievances between the gods Athena has to convince, such as Hephaestus taking issue with Aphrodite and Ares
@@keladwynsolkas Athena's mother was Zeus's first wife. And she was born from his head after Zeus ate her mom. So Athena wasnt born from Zeus cheating on Hera.
So, I just noticed something. The 2 quickest ones were Apollo and Hephaestus because Apollo being more of a civilisation god( domains of art and music etc) and Hephaestus making metalwork would lean closer to Athena's logical thinking. While Ares and Aphrodite who are more passion based, it wouldn't work so Athena has to show emotion, pleading with Apjrodite(I mean look at Aph's face, it was working) and getting angry and beating Ares in a fight. Not sure if this is intentional or not but it's cool either way. Also yes, Hamilton could never
I also think they both either didn’t care or actively didn’t want to participate in the game. Apollo and Hephaestus, gods of “This could’ve been an email”
Now I dont know if this is fully true, I saw someone mention on another post that Apollo is also the god of prophecies, so he already knew how it would end so he didn't care enough to really get into it
@@oklandon09 My headcannon is that Hephaestus just picked the easiest thing to argue so that Athena would get out of his forge so he could get back to work.
No but for me Apollo's whole verse doesn't make sense , he was 100% against the Greeks in the trojan war , he made poisoned arrows fall from the skies for days , and he was the one who kiled Achilles by helping Paris kill him , out of all the gods here Apollo has some of the biggest reasons to be against Odysseus, and apollo is one HELL of a petty god 😭 so it wouldn't surprise me if he was still mad against Ody
@@merusotajio2222, yes but maybe he simply wasn't against Ody specifically and after the war he simply didn't care anymore about anything or about what would happen after it, after all it had ended, and he is a god and if he is petty I'm pretty sure that it's possible that he didn't care about the lifes in the war and after it, about what would happen to them, or that he had other thing to be petty about, or maybe he simply doesn't care in general unless you go against him personally and then it's there when he is petty, after all him and Odysseus didn't have anything personal (like personal problems) or any contact of any type so they didn't have reasons to specifically be and go against each other at all, not in the war and much less after it, Ody may have personal problems with some gods, like Poseidon and Helios, but Apollo is not one of them
Fun fact: Ares’ instrument is the Chinese erhu, which might confuse people for why a Greek god has a Chinese instrument. This is a hint towards Sun Tzu: the art of war. Yup, I’m not making this shit up
What I love about Beast Mode Zeus reprising "Thunder Bringer" is that he was originally referring to pride, and his tantrum was triggered by Athena threatening his pride by winning his game.
@@dogebrando8902 Well more that it goes from warrior of the mind to I wanna be legendary when she is looking down at telemachus but yeah i believe its those two specific points in the songs too which is really cool
While Zeus's famous infidelity is the obvious thing, Hera is also the goddess of marriage (making said infidelity so much worse). Ody being a faithful husband is directly in her wheelhouse even despite her personal hangups.
20:24 This is most likely a reference to how in the actual poem Zeus beat Athena so severely for aiding the Achaeans (Greeks), it took her over 10 years to recover from the wounds.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he actually struck Athena during the Trojan War. In book VIII of The Iliad, he threatens to do so when she and Hera attempt to defy his decree to not aid the Greeks in a battle, but he never actually harms either of them. The lines (from a prose translation I found online, the translator is Anthony Kline) as follows: "But Father Zeus, watching them from Ida, enraged, sent Iris the golden-winged to take them a message: ‘Away, and swiftly, Iris; turn them back, and keep them far from me, a confrontation will do them no good. Tell them what I say, and would surely do. I’d hamstring the horses that pull their chariot, hurl them from it, and shatter it to pieces. Not in ten years’ circuit would they be healed of the wounds my thunderbolt deals. That would show the bright-eyed goddess what a fight with her father means! I’ve less words of wrath or indignation to waste on Hera: she habitually defies my decrees.’" Later on, in the same book: "With these words, fleet-footed Iris took her divine way, while Hera turned to Athene in alarm: ‘Well now, daughter of aegis-bearing Zeus, I cannot sanction us waging war on Zeus for these mortals. Let events decide who lives and who dies. Zeus must decide between the Greeks and Trojans, as is only right.’ So saying, she wheeled her team and returned. Then the Hours unyoked the long-maned horses, and tethered them by their ambrosial mangers, and leaned the chariot against the bright entrance-wall, while the two anxious goddesses sat down, with the other gods, on golden chairs."
A little cool detail I found is that when Hephaestus says “trust is not given, it’s forged” he says it in the say rhyme as “Drown in your blood and your tears” or any of scylla’s lines from that part in the song.
You can certainly incapacitate/overpower a god (see; Atlas, Zeus against Typhon, Chronos, Ouranos, Artemis against Hera in the Iliad, etc), but you can't really kill them You kinda gotta get creative if you wanna beat a god
@@errantstars8294but Kronos ate his children and they were fine, and Zeus ate Metis and she was still able to grow Athena to be birthed by him. I’m pretty sure gods can’t die period and that they can only be locked up or torn to pieces and have the pieces locked up 😭.
@errantstars8294 and even then it's not always death Just look at the kids of Chronos The gods are pretty often referred to as "immortal" or "undying" so make of that what you wi
This song was unexpectedly hard, Zeus reminds me of my own dad. Setting the goal posts in one place but steering you in another. If I had to guess since he said "OR me." He wanted her to basically say, "Your opinion is all that matters" and grovel to him more
I'm sorry, but anyone else think that the gods are either on Ody's side or just couldn't care less? Like... really Apollo? THE SIRENS?- I thought he would've at least brought up Helios's cows and went 'Hey, from god with sacred cows to another, not cool dude-'
I headcannon that Apollo WAS on Ody's side, cause with that voice of his? Better than a sirens- I really like imagining the scene as a sort of banter moment between Athena and Apollo where she's just going 'seriously? At least make it believable, geez Pollo-' while trying not to smile-
@@CyrahLia_459it has been a bit of a joke that Zeus sat the other gods down for a zoom meeting/powerpoint presentation Apollo was just there to listen to the cool music
Something you seem to have missed is that Apollo actually shares the Harp instrument with Hermes! This is because in Greek Lore, Hermes was the one who gave Apollo his Harp as a gift after stealing his cows
I don't think she is gone gone, because gods can kill each other over and over... They always come back. Maybe she's not coming for the rest of EPIC but, she's not dead dead
I would have loved for God Games to be its own saga (with Casper as Hades obviously), all the gods were so awesome, but I do understand that it's probably way too much to ask
during the aphrodite + ares snippet, ares' entrance is accompanied by the text "quick-thought X2", which implies that ares has his own quick-thought ability, and uses it during athena's quick-thought in order to probably isolate them
I don't know if it counts as a critique, but if there is one thing I'm sad about when it comes to this Saga its that I wish God Games was an entire Saga unto itself. I'd have loved back-to-back "Boss fights" between Athena and the other gods. But I guess wanting more is a good problem to have.
I do like that weird quirk of Zeus's where he likes to use unusual definitions of words. First "sublime" as a verb, now "apprehensions" in the literal sense of bindings. Once just feels like a lyricist's idiosyncracy; twice makes it seem more like the character's.
Originally, I was confused as to why Zeus was angry too. But on a relisten, I think I realized why-remember back in Little Wolf when Athena had the line, "I've no respect for bullies, those who impose their will. I've seen PLENTY ENOUGH to truly understand this kind of filth."? Well, this is what that was foreshadowing. I think they're trying to thematically link Zeus and Antinous-both are bullies who impose their will on those weaker than them. This also provides a thematic link between Athena and Telemachus, as the party who tried to stand up to them and failed.
(just for clarification, Athena does not die in the original Odyssey and in Greek myth gods can't die but they can be dismembered and have to reform. Idk if Jorge is going with his own thing but based on the source material, Athena is probably just out of comission for a bit) My favourite part of this is how Athena switches her vocabulary and methods for each god. For Apollo she mentions singing, for Hephaestus she talks about building, for Aphrodite she's really delicate and plaintive trying to play to her emotions but then changes to anger and force with Ares and then goes full on diva in her delivery with Hera.
A random thing my friend and I thought of happening after God Games Hades: **shows up with a ghost Athena** Really Zeus? You’re taking a page out of dad’s book now? Zeus: But brotheeeeer! She embarrassed meeeeee! Hades: **forehead flicks Zeus with the force of a million angry mothers** Zeus: **concussed** Hades: She played your game. She won. Release him. Zeus: **in Spain without the S** Ok…
Makes me wonder if he's mad at Poseidon for killing Ody's crew. Hades is just buried under all the paperwork of suddenly having 558 men suddenly drop into his domain. 😆 Hades: Brother... Why did the souls of over 500 men just drop into my river?! And why did I hear one of them belting about becoming a monster outside my door?! Poseidon: Well, you see... Hades: *Sends Cerberus to bite him*
What fucks me up is she isnt even really fighting Zeus. Like we see her actually fight Ares, but shes literally just trying to get her dad to LISTEN to her, to honor their agreement. It makes me wanna cry
That's true! She didn't go on the offensive, didn't use her spear at her. She was struck by lightning and then used her shield and arms to defend herself as she pleaded.
Aphrodite makes a great point. The Trojan War was over when Anticlea saw the storm cover his ship. She died because he spited Polyphemus, pissing off Poseidon, who then sent said storm. Granted, Athena only got glimpses of what happened because she had to look into his memories, since she had abandoned him by that point. Also, I did the math, and Odysseus's luck ran out 3 years after Athena abandoned him. She hadn't seen him in a decade, and "Thunder Bringer" was 7 years prior to this saga, so 10-7=3 years. Athena _was_ Odysseus's luck. He got lucky that Hermes was snooping around Aeaea, because they all would've died without divine intervention. Without the moly, the men that got turned into pigs were as good as dead, and he wanted to confront Circe with NO plan whatsoever on how to beat a woman who can transform men into pigs. He didn't even have concepts of a plan. It would've been as hopeless as fighting Scylla without the moly.
@@PM-ov9sg To an extent. Paris could maybe still have abducted Helen without her help. Plus, Odysseus swore an oath that obligated him to go to war. He could've not made that deal. Also, this is about Odysseus's actions, not hers. He's the one being (essentially) prosecuted by the gods.
I like to imagine God Games as sort of a montage, like diagetically these discussions are much longer and more complex but we as the audience only see the highlights
18:06 he was moreso mad at the fact that she thought that the opinion of the other gods actually mattered to Zeus over his own opinion. Hence why he said "or me"
Waiting with open arms, but how much longer… Ah a warrior of the mind, Why not make it a game? Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- ••• No. -is it just me or is the lyrics, “Or me” and I hear “AND ME” I always confuse the two when singing it aloud!*
I mean, in the Demo version that I've memorised by heart that Jorge originally released, it WAS 'And me.' But I think he changed it. Or me now means that Athena can fight the five gods, or him so of course Athena chose the option that wasn't convincing the king of Olympus, who is known to give Brutal punishments- Also maybe he wanted Zeus to come off as more hate-able and cocky with 'No one wins my Game!!' But no, not alone there definitely, I still accidentally say 'And me!' Sometimes cause of muscle memory-
I noticed the line change too from listening to the demo on repeat! I think it's an interesting change that depicts Zeus' prideful and poor sport-ness well.
It doesn't include Athena's death, but Jorge is taking a lot of liberties. But also, I doubt Athena's dead. I have no idea what happened, but she's a goddess, she can't be DEAD.
so a couple things, 1. one thing i noticed that it seems like no one else has mentioned is that Zeus said "OR me" not "and me", when introducing the gods that Athena needs to convince. so maybe it was foreshadowing that he didn't want her to win or that he would ultimately have the final say regardless. 2. Hera was so easily swayed with Ody not cheating because Hera is the goddess of marriage and family. Being loyal to your spouse is her whole thing. 3. I don't think Athens is dead because, "last I checked goddesses can't die."
SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED THE LINE CHANGE OMG! I used to listen to the God Games clips on repeat before Wisdom saga came out so I memorized the "and me" part, so when I heard the change in the official version I immediately noticed. Zeus is a very poor sport and rigs his games lol
I need someone with more of a music brain to help me with this one - when Athena asks Aphrodite "Please reconsider this", is that the same melody/note progression as "Please don't make me do this" in The Horse and The Infant? If the act of pleading with a god got its own little motif I think that would make so much sense.
Gods can certainly be knocked out or imprisioned, but that in fact does not happen in homer's oddysey. It does happen in the Illiad when Aphrodite and Ares take the battlefield. Though - they are injured and forced to retreat.
I think Zeus said 'Or me' either because 'either me or the 5' OR convince them, but even if you technically win, I'm still not gonna say 'yes' so...🤷♀️
I just found out about you today and I binged watched ALL your reactions (not including the duo reactions, but I plan to.) and coincidently you are doing yhe last song today.
Zeus didn't actually expect Athena to convince everyone. And he's narcisstic af. Generally those types don't handle being shown up or challenged very well. So. Yeah. Zeus sucks. I managed to jump on the livestream for wisdom saga, and the RAECTIONS to the end were amazing.
Not so fun fact: apollo can sometimes be know as the god of prophesies (dont know how to write that word) so he knew what would happen in the end so he let himself get easily convinced😢
Two things 1. I can’t wait to see Casper reaction to this one. 2. Two theory’s about this one 1 is that don’t think Athena dead but curse to be human. 2. The second theory I have is the irony between odyssey and Athena. Athena having human feeling towards him having a heart while odyssey is having more god feeling coming a monster
I'm an hour late, but why I personally think Ares is able to 'break out of' Athena's Quick thought is not because they're sblings. But rather because they are the two gods of war. Yes, there is a God of War, and Goddess of War. Which means they have something pretty fimmiliar as war was like a pretty huge thing in ancient Greece (and other European/Asian countries). So it would make sense for them to be somewhat able to interwine with one another's powers
Something I've waited this long to say; During the end of Thunder Bringer, you hear Athena's piano. In the same spot where she appears in Ody's memories above the shipwreck in "Love in Paradise". I'm betting if you go to each of the places she "visits", it'll be there too. Not that I've looked myself.
The stringed instrument during Ares's verse kinda sounds like the Chinese instrument Erhu. GarageBand has a feature with that sound and it sounds very similar to this verse. Love your reactions by the way!
I really love that you're passionate about the vocals and point out cool things about them but you're like equally passionate about the instrumentals and also the visuals and also Jorge's subtext, it feels like you're not leaving out any angle of appreciating Epic in all the majesty that every artist who touches it brings to the table ❤ I'm obsessed with analyzing every single angle of Epic rn so your reacts and your reacts with Casper are exactly my jam ❤❤❤
Also! Not sure if youve seen Gwendy has been breaking down her God Games animation on her lives, hearing her talk about it and the process is so cool! Would love to see you and Casper react to her The Challenge animatic, she shared some WIP of that too ❤
Basically Athena could be dead as it could be a creative liberty, I mean the entire end of god games, let alone most of god games was a creative liberty, plus instead of seeing it as an adaptation, Jorge is telling his own story, and ending a character would progress the plot and add to the story, that’s my theory at least.
I think the quickness of the gods to just choose to release odysseus shows how grand they truly are. His life doesnt really matter to them, so they care neither way, and the fact that Athena is pushing them back about as a fellow god is enough for them to let him get released
OH MY GOD your reactions and facial expressions are absolutely priceless! This is the first reaction of yours I’ve seen and I love it. New subscriber earned! :D
I watch these on release on the patreon and I’m still so hyped to see the edited videos when they come out!! Amazing analyzing Mortius! And you’re amazing Mason!!^^
"But last I checked, goddesses can't die." This was uttered in the same album as God Games, one song ago no less. That animation, which was directed by Jorge himself, seemed pretty definitive, but...I have hope that Athena is gonna be ok lol Demos of the Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera portions of God Games have been available for at least as far back as when the Ocean Saga released, so people were already pretty familiar with them when this dropped, but they still felt so good as part of this larger whole. The ending of Hera's is just spot on perfect.
I love how Thunder Bringer is basically just Zeus playing with a toy only for this reprise of Thunder Bringer to be “Nahhh, I was playing before, now you’ve pissed me off”
This is completely in line with Zeus’s mythology. He once held a contest to make the best food for the gods where the winner gets a favor from Zeus, a bee won and said that animals keep steeling from them so the bee wants a deadly stinger, for some reason Zeus got pissed at this and said the bee can have a deadly stinger but it’s only going to be deadly to the bee and only annoy the other animals
"Is Athena's memories of Odysseus and Telemachus going to let her DEFEAT ZEUS????!!!!" **Athena gets completely demolished and looses** Guess the power of friendship just wasn't enough
In the proper mythology, there was a time that a big kaiju type monster named Typhon ripped out all of Zeus’s tendons and ligaments and left him helpless in a cave. He was completely unable to fix himself and needed an ally (I forget who) to restring him like a guitar. So while gods don’t typically die, they can absolutely be injured and maimed in a way that puts them out of commission.
Fun fact: Luke recorded his thunderbringer part when he just woke up to get that extra growl in his voice
Now I want him to try doing that on a stage!!! XD
@radicaledward84 I recommend just skipping coffee for stage work
that is such a cool fact
That is a fun fact!
Woah! If he does that on stage it means he took a little nap beforehand!
It literally just clicked that the reason Ares seems to walk out from a desert like terrain is because Athena's hourglass was broken when he approaches....
😮❤
Bro that's brilliant
I never even thought of that and I love it
Holy shrew, that's amazing.
the fact that theres glass shards fly up on the "Hold your tongue now"
I love how Ares is the one who asked if she was dead. A sibling she has constant beef with, but he genuinely cares more than their father.
This hit me, too
This musical is fantastic
I think Ares and Athena (as the gods of both sides of war, the anger, passion, and bravery of the common soldier vs the cold calculus of a general fighting a war through strategic maneuvering, both sides are necessary to winning a war) have such an interesting relationship to each other as siblings, so different, both on opposite sides of how to handle a conflict, but are still sides of, if not the same coin, then similar ones and therefore need each other and understand each other because of their domains
@@idgarobingoodfellow I love their relationship too, its so interesting to see how they both approach the problem differently, but can eventually come to even ground
I first had a funny thought that he would be upset because he might no have a sis any more to annoy
@@YSAn-e3f LMAO. Bro's sad because he has nobody else to fight willingly
what I appreciate is that Hera says "give me ONE good reason" - and with one good reason, she's convinced :3
Waiting........ waiting....... Mortius when you post I'll be........WAITING
Even though it's just one song I'll be........waiting........waiting
When you post a video but upcoming but woke up at 12 I'll be...... Waiting...... Waiting tbh is this true pls like ( not forcing )
I will watch you suffer like I did I'm waiting... waiting...
Can't wait to see you suffer like I did, I'm waiting... waiting...
I paused too long... my network timed out... while we were waiting... *waiting*... **waiting**...
Fun fact: Jorge intentionally gave Hera a groovy, disco-esque theme in this song, hence the “groovy” at the beginning. This, along with the “Hey, Baby” at the beginning of her part of the song, implies the fact that she is of a literal and metaphorical “older generation” of gods than Athena, and therefore, considers herself above Athena, in a maternal sense, and treating Athena like a child who is trying to play in the “big leagues”, in a sense.
to be fair, she is Athena's step mother
@@Orion_44 This is true
@@Orion_44…and aunt
@@Azziyaisalwaysonline indeed
@@Orion_44 Hera to Athena: "I'm both the cool aunt and the wicked stepmother."
Zeus totally tried to rig the game. Nearly all of the gods Athena had to convince sided with Troy in the Trojan War. Hephaestus and Hera sided with the Greeks.
Yep, the Trojan War was basically just a huge sibling rivalry civil war between the gods, although Zeus cheated and helped both sides. Zeus' infidelity isn't just toward Hera.
Plus the only two that sided with the Greeks would have personal grievances with Athena; Hera wouldn’t be very fond of her because of Zeus’s infidelity, and Hephaestus due to her rejection and his general unhappiness with the rest of the pantheon.
The gods are also very petty so would vote on opposing sides purely out of spite, so you could also look at the grievances between the gods Athena has to convince, such as Hephaestus taking issue with Aphrodite and Ares
@@keladwynsolkas Athena's mother was Zeus's first wife.
And she was born from his head after Zeus ate her mom.
So Athena wasnt born from Zeus cheating on Hera.
It would've been unwinnable if he'd included Poseidon, unless Poseidon was confident he could get Odysseus on his way back home. 😅
@@meaypie11 Poseidon can't get Odysseus _unless_ he's freed. I'm fairly certain Poseidon can't reach Ogygia.
So, I just noticed something. The 2 quickest ones were Apollo and Hephaestus because Apollo being more of a civilisation god( domains of art and music etc) and Hephaestus making metalwork would lean closer to Athena's logical thinking. While Ares and Aphrodite who are more passion based, it wouldn't work so Athena has to show emotion, pleading with Apjrodite(I mean look at Aph's face, it was working) and getting angry and beating Ares in a fight. Not sure if this is intentional or not but it's cool either way.
Also yes, Hamilton could never
I also think they both either didn’t care or actively didn’t want to participate in the game. Apollo and Hephaestus, gods of “This could’ve been an email”
Now I dont know if this is fully true, I saw someone mention on another post that Apollo is also the god of prophecies, so he already knew how it would end so he didn't care enough to really get into it
@@oklandon09 My headcannon is that Hephaestus just picked the easiest thing to argue so that Athena would get out of his forge so he could get back to work.
No but for me Apollo's whole verse doesn't make sense , he was 100% against the Greeks in the trojan war , he made poisoned arrows fall from the skies for days , and he was the one who kiled Achilles by helping Paris kill him , out of all the gods here Apollo has some of the biggest reasons to be against Odysseus, and apollo is one HELL of a petty god 😭 so it wouldn't surprise me if he was still mad against Ody
@@merusotajio2222, yes but maybe he simply wasn't against Ody specifically and after the war he simply didn't care anymore about anything or about what would happen after it, after all it had ended, and he is a god and if he is petty I'm pretty sure that it's possible that he didn't care about the lifes in the war and after it, about what would happen to them, or that he had other thing to be petty about, or maybe he simply doesn't care in general unless you go against him personally and then it's there when he is petty, after all him and Odysseus didn't have anything personal (like personal problems) or any contact of any type so they didn't have reasons to specifically be and go against each other at all, not in the war and much less after it, Ody may have personal problems with some gods, like Poseidon and Helios, but Apollo is not one of them
Fun fact: Ares’ instrument is the Chinese erhu, which might confuse people for why a Greek god has a Chinese instrument. This is a hint towards Sun Tzu: the art of war.
Yup, I’m not making this shit up
I knew I recognized that instrument
That's actually true. Jorge conform it himself in an old video explaining the instruments/music in God Games.
and its the fact that his lite motif and Athena's are the same, which makes sense cause they're both gods of war and siblings, love the details
OK, I was wondering what that instrument was! Now it makes sense.
That's so cool!
What I love about Beast Mode Zeus reprising "Thunder Bringer" is that he was originally referring to pride, and his tantrum was triggered by Athena threatening his pride by winning his game.
Which was something that wasn’t meant to be won in the first place but it was Athena’s determination to almost win the game
@@Vent.imlistening Not almost, she did win. She convinced the others, and by cheating, Zeus forfeited tbh.
hubris: it's only okay when we do it
@@voidfloof as always
And Athena’s final tactic against this was ultimately (in my headcanon) a supplicant’s plea. She cast aside her pride for Ody.
21:08 jorge did say this saga was a lot like a videogame/movie. Athena is the wise mentor.. we know what usually happens to them in films.
😭😭
I love how at Apollo’s part Athena’s like “ You don’t really believe that do you?”
“No, I just really wanted to be in the number.” Apollo.
fun fact! the melody during the flashback goes like: i know we’ll change the world because, we will be legendary!!
WAIT WHAT?!?!
@@dogebrando8902 Well more that it goes from warrior of the mind to I wanna be legendary when she is looking down at telemachus but yeah i believe its those two specific points in the songs too which is really cool
@@robertmartens9072 thats awesome wthhh
@@dogebrando8902 It also keeps those tunes as they are somewhat similar during the large fanfare of the trumpets while zues is attacking her
so much cool stuff in the comments of these videos
While Zeus's famous infidelity is the obvious thing, Hera is also the goddess of marriage (making said infidelity so much worse). Ody being a faithful husband is directly in her wheelhouse even despite her personal hangups.
11:55 peak sibling dynamic: annoying younger brother and annoyed older sister
Love this comment 😂. As the older sister I can understand this
I thought Ares was the older one?
@SeriouslyWhoDidThis
He was the first son then Athena then the twins then dionysius
@SeriouslyWhoDidThis
Hephestus is hard to put on the timeline and aphrodity is confusing if she's a daughter of zeus
@@chadthunder8188 The order goes Ares, Athena & Hephaestus (we know that he is older than the twins), the twins, Hermes, Dionysus, and Hebe
20:24 This is most likely a reference to how in the actual poem Zeus beat Athena so severely for aiding the Achaeans (Greeks), it took her over 10 years to recover from the wounds.
Oooh woaah I've never heard of that before! Thanks for sharing that!
Dang! That sounds right on the money! 😮
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he actually struck Athena during the Trojan War. In book VIII of The Iliad, he threatens to do so when she and Hera attempt to defy his decree to not aid the Greeks in a battle, but he never actually harms either of them.
The lines (from a prose translation I found online, the translator is Anthony Kline) as follows:
"But Father Zeus, watching them from Ida, enraged, sent Iris the golden-winged to take them a message: ‘Away, and swiftly, Iris; turn them back, and keep them far from me, a confrontation will do them no good. Tell them what I say, and would surely do. I’d hamstring the horses that pull their chariot, hurl them from it, and shatter it to pieces. Not in ten years’ circuit would they be healed of the wounds my thunderbolt deals. That would show the bright-eyed goddess what a fight with her father means! I’ve less words of wrath or indignation to waste on Hera: she habitually defies my decrees.’"
Later on, in the same book:
"With these words, fleet-footed Iris took her divine way, while Hera turned to Athene in alarm: ‘Well now, daughter of aegis-bearing Zeus, I cannot sanction us waging war on Zeus for these mortals. Let events decide who lives and who dies. Zeus must decide between the Greeks and Trojans, as is only right.’
So saying, she wheeled her team and returned. Then the Hours unyoked the long-maned horses, and tethered them by their ambrosial mangers, and leaned the chariot against the bright entrance-wall, while the two anxious goddesses sat down, with the other gods, on golden chairs."
@@avian1 Thanks for sharing your insight! I'll be sure to dive more into this once I get my hands on an Iliad translation someday
In all honesty, the Odyssey does say Athena gets pretty hurt from a punishment if memory serves but not killed.
Can we talk about how Ares shattered the top her hourglass so they were fighting on sand?
Athena MAKES IT PERSONAL WHEN SAVING ODYSSEUS.
A little cool detail I found is that when Hephaestus says “trust is not given, it’s forged” he says it in the say rhyme as “Drown in your blood and your tears” or any of scylla’s lines from that part in the song.
Calypso said that gods can’t dies but in mythology immortals have been permanently torn to pieces
Just still living pieces I suppose 😂
You can certainly incapacitate/overpower a god (see; Atlas, Zeus against Typhon, Chronos, Ouranos, Artemis against Hera in the Iliad, etc), but you can't really kill them
You kinda gotta get creative if you wanna beat a god
@@idontevenknow5486yeah I’m pretty sure the only gods that die and stay that way are ones devoured by other gods
@@errantstars8294but Kronos ate his children and they were fine, and Zeus ate Metis and she was still able to grow Athena to be birthed by him. I’m pretty sure gods can’t die period and that they can only be locked up or torn to pieces and have the pieces locked up 😭.
@errantstars8294 and even then it's not always death
Just look at the kids of Chronos
The gods are pretty often referred to as "immortal" or "undying" so make of that what you wi
This song was unexpectedly hard, Zeus reminds me of my own dad. Setting the goal posts in one place but steering you in another.
If I had to guess since he said "OR me." He wanted her to basically say, "Your opinion is all that matters" and grovel to him more
I'm sorry, but anyone else think that the gods are either on Ody's side or just couldn't care less? Like... really Apollo? THE SIRENS?- I thought he would've at least brought up Helios's cows and went 'Hey, from god with sacred cows to another, not cool dude-'
I headcannon that Apollo WAS on Ody's side, cause with that voice of his? Better than a sirens-
I really like imagining the scene as a sort of banter moment between Athena and Apollo where she's just going 'seriously? At least make it believable, geez Pollo-' while trying not to smile-
@@CyrahLia_459it has been a bit of a joke that Zeus sat the other gods down for a zoom meeting/powerpoint presentation
Apollo was just there to listen to the cool music
Yea, no I can SO see that- 🤣
But Odysseus was trying to save the cows...
Im pretty sure Apollo didnt have cows, or was even a sun god until after the odyssey was written
Something you seem to have missed is that Apollo actually shares the Harp instrument with Hermes! This is because in Greek Lore, Hermes was the one who gave Apollo his Harp as a gift after stealing his cows
Lyre not harp
"You are playing with thunder for a man full of shame." Zeus, you know damn well Odysseus is shameless.
😂😂I mean, you're not wrong. But it works so well for him. That man is cunning personified.
epic odysseus is at least 30% shame by volume
I don't think she is gone gone, because gods can kill each other over and over... They always come back. Maybe she's not coming for the rest of EPIC but, she's not dead dead
I would have loved for God Games to be its own saga (with Casper as Hades obviously), all the gods were so awesome, but I do understand that it's probably way too much to ask
The jaw drop that is Ares’ entrance. The god of war did not stutter.
during the aphrodite + ares snippet, ares' entrance is accompanied by the text "quick-thought X2", which implies that ares has his own quick-thought ability, and uses it during athena's quick-thought in order to probably isolate them
HEFESUYS
Nah, man. It's Heffefef. Look up the official spelling 😊
HEFEFUF
Heffalump
HEFFEFUF!
HALFEFUF 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
I don't know if it counts as a critique, but if there is one thing I'm sad about when it comes to this Saga its that I wish God Games was an entire Saga unto itself. I'd have loved back-to-back "Boss fights" between Athena and the other gods. But I guess wanting more is a good problem to have.
I do like that weird quirk of Zeus's where he likes to use unusual definitions of words. First "sublime" as a verb, now "apprehensions" in the literal sense of bindings. Once just feels like a lyricist's idiosyncracy; twice makes it seem more like the character's.
Originally, I was confused as to why Zeus was angry too. But on a relisten, I think I realized why-remember back in Little Wolf when Athena had the line, "I've no respect for bullies, those who impose their will. I've seen PLENTY ENOUGH to truly understand this kind of filth."? Well, this is what that was foreshadowing. I think they're trying to thematically link Zeus and Antinous-both are bullies who impose their will on those weaker than them. This also provides a thematic link between Athena and Telemachus, as the party who tried to stand up to them and failed.
Ares instrument is actually an erhu, an Asian string instrument. And he has the same motif as Athena because he also can use quick thought
(just for clarification, Athena does not die in the original Odyssey and in Greek myth gods can't die but they can be dismembered and have to reform. Idk if Jorge is going with his own thing but based on the source material, Athena is probably just out of comission for a bit)
My favourite part of this is how Athena switches her vocabulary and methods for each god. For Apollo she mentions singing, for Hephaestus she talks about building, for Aphrodite she's really delicate and plaintive trying to play to her emotions but then changes to anger and force with Ares and then goes full on diva in her delivery with Hera.
A random thing my friend and I thought of happening after God Games
Hades: **shows up with a ghost Athena** Really Zeus? You’re taking a page out of dad’s book now?
Zeus: But brotheeeeer! She embarrassed meeeeee!
Hades: **forehead flicks Zeus with the force of a million angry mothers**
Zeus: **concussed**
Hades: She played your game. She won. Release him.
Zeus: **in Spain without the S** Ok…
Metis and Hades would (and should) be absolutely pissed if they knew about what Zeus did.
The fact that Hades is the older brother makes this so much better 😂
Makes me wonder if he's mad at Poseidon for killing Ody's crew. Hades is just buried under all the paperwork of suddenly having 558 men suddenly drop into his domain. 😆
Hades: Brother... Why did the souls of over 500 men just drop into my river?! And why did I hear one of them belting about becoming a monster outside my door?!
Poseidon: Well, you see...
Hades: *Sends Cerberus to bite him*
Welcome to Hadestown I guess
What fucks me up is she isnt even really fighting Zeus. Like we see her actually fight Ares, but shes literally just trying to get her dad to LISTEN to her, to honor their agreement. It makes me wanna cry
That's true! She didn't go on the offensive, didn't use her spear at her. She was struck by lightning and then used her shield and arms to defend herself as she pleaded.
I'm surprised that the title isn't more... traumatised...?
Don’t worry
He’ll probably be crying by the end of this saga :D
Right? Like, when he reacted to Love In Paradise I was thinking "Buddy... you've got a big storm coming".
And a lot of thunder and lightning
It’s 23 hours until this is live and there is currently 22 people waiting 😂
18:00 While that is true, I'm sure Zeus did not like his infidelity being brought up in a arena.
Aphrodite makes a great point. The Trojan War was over when Anticlea saw the storm cover his ship. She died because he spited Polyphemus, pissing off Poseidon, who then sent said storm. Granted, Athena only got glimpses of what happened because she had to look into his memories, since she had abandoned him by that point. Also, I did the math, and Odysseus's luck ran out 3 years after Athena abandoned him. She hadn't seen him in a decade, and "Thunder Bringer" was 7 years prior to this saga, so 10-7=3 years. Athena _was_ Odysseus's luck. He got lucky that Hermes was snooping around Aeaea, because they all would've died without divine intervention. Without the moly, the men that got turned into pigs were as good as dead, and he wanted to confront Circe with NO plan whatsoever on how to beat a woman who can transform men into pigs. He didn't even have concepts of a plan. It would've been as hopeless as fighting Scylla without the moly.
Aphrodite point is negated by the fact she is the reasonable for the Trojan War, No war and Odysseus would never run into Polyphemus.
@@PM-ov9sg To an extent. Paris could maybe still have abducted Helen without her help. Plus, Odysseus swore an oath that obligated him to go to war. He could've not made that deal. Also, this is about Odysseus's actions, not hers. He's the one being (essentially) prosecuted by the gods.
I like to imagine God Games as sort of a montage, like diagetically these discussions are much longer and more complex but we as the audience only see the highlights
18:06 he was moreso mad at the fact that she thought that the opinion of the other gods actually mattered to Zeus over his own opinion. Hence why he said "or me"
The silence in the end was deafening
fun fact athena is zeus favorit daugher and chiled. so imagine what he would have done to Ares his least favorit chiled
Waiting with open arms, but how much longer… Ah a warrior of the mind, Why not make it a game? Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- Fight- ••• No.
-is it just me or is the lyrics, “Or me” and I hear “AND ME” I always confuse the two when singing it aloud!*
I mean, in the Demo version that I've memorised by heart that Jorge originally released, it WAS 'And me.' But I think he changed it.
Or me now means that Athena can fight the five gods, or him so of course Athena chose the option that wasn't convincing the king of Olympus, who is known to give Brutal punishments-
Also maybe he wanted Zeus to come off as more hate-able and cocky with 'No one wins my Game!!'
But no, not alone there definitely, I still accidentally say 'And me!' Sometimes cause of muscle memory-
I noticed the line change too from listening to the demo on repeat! I think it's an interesting change that depicts Zeus' prideful and poor sport-ness well.
17:30 Pus Hera is the goddess of family and marriage so that answer goes doublly hard for her.
It doesn't include Athena's death, but Jorge is taking a lot of liberties. But also, I doubt Athena's dead. I have no idea what happened, but she's a goddess, she can't be DEAD.
Ares: "Is she dead?"
One song earlier: Calypso: "Last I checked, goddesses can't die."
so a couple things,
1. one thing i noticed that it seems like no one else has mentioned is that Zeus said "OR me" not "and me", when introducing the gods that Athena needs to convince. so maybe it was foreshadowing that he didn't want her to win or that he would ultimately have the final say regardless.
2. Hera was so easily swayed with Ody not cheating because Hera is the goddess of marriage and family. Being loyal to your spouse is her whole thing.
3. I don't think Athens is dead because, "last I checked goddesses can't die."
SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED THE LINE CHANGE OMG! I used to listen to the God Games clips on repeat before Wisdom saga came out so I memorized the "and me" part, so when I heard the change in the official version I immediately noticed. Zeus is a very poor sport and rigs his games lol
Wait….i can actually attend this one whooooh! Can’t wait to see him CRY!!!!
I need someone with more of a music brain to help me with this one - when Athena asks Aphrodite "Please reconsider this", is that the same melody/note progression as "Please don't make me do this" in The Horse and The Infant?
If the act of pleading with a god got its own little motif I think that would make so much sense.
They’re not quite the same, but that’s still cool!
@@Azziyaisalwaysonline thank you! I figured it was a stretch but i just couldn't tell for sure
Gods can certainly be knocked out or imprisioned, but that in fact does not happen in homer's oddysey.
It does happen in the Illiad when Aphrodite and Ares take the battlefield. Though - they are injured and forced to retreat.
I love how everyone’s initial reaction to Hera is just
*Excited confusion noises*
I think Zeus said 'Or me' either because 'either me or the 5' OR convince them, but even if you technically win, I'm still not gonna say 'yes' so...🤷♀️
I just found out about you today and I binged watched ALL your reactions (not including the duo reactions, but I plan to.) and coincidently you are doing yhe last song today.
Zeus didn't actually expect Athena to convince everyone. And he's narcisstic af. Generally those types don't handle being shown up or challenged very well. So. Yeah. Zeus sucks.
I managed to jump on the livestream for wisdom saga, and the RAECTIONS to the end were amazing.
Ares: is she dead?
Me: uh you remember youre all immortal right?
I have godgames trauma and love Calypso even if icky the same way I love all you wanna do as a song and here Mortius is vibing
GOD GAMES LETS FUCKIN GO- (sadly won’t be able to see it when it premieres cause school)
I know how long the video will be (about 20-25 minutes)(because the OAR video is set 25 minutes after this one)
"And tell your lover that a broken heart can mend." A dead broken heart can't.
Hey... guess what...
Teagan posted a few days after the release that she has finished recording for EPIC...
But I’m pretty sure she’s also in Odysseus helping Telemachus
Athena didn't die in the Odyssey, Epic has some elements changed or added to it, just don't think too much about it.
Not so fun fact: apollo can sometimes be know as the god of prophesies (dont know how to write that word) so he knew what would happen in the end so he let himself get easily convinced😢
Two things 1. I can’t wait to see Casper reaction to this one. 2. Two theory’s about this one 1 is that don’t think Athena dead but curse to be human. 2. The second theory I have is the irony between odyssey and Athena. Athena having human feeling towards him having a heart while odyssey is having more god feeling coming a monster
"Devine suger mama"
Divine sugar mama*
Lol... If you click the translation for this, it translates to "becomes suggestive mom" 😂😂
@@gracegrimm1383I love UA-cam Translate!
@@gracegrimm1383 Still works.
Am i the only one who is always reminded of shadow the hedgehog during the entry of ares ???
The snippets are just as good as the final song tbh.
I'ma make it so you can't unhear this either. At 12:08, when he says he 'didn't even try to kill her,' it sounds like he 'didn't even try taquila.'
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!
I'm an hour late, but why I personally think Ares is able to 'break out of' Athena's Quick thought is not because they're sblings. But rather because they are the two gods of war.
Yes, there is a God of War, and Goddess of War.
Which means they have something pretty fimmiliar as war was like a pretty huge thing in ancient Greece (and other European/Asian countries). So it would make sense for them to be somewhat able to interwine with one another's powers
Dude, you recorded this RIGHT AFTER Love In Paradise. Do you seriously not remember the “goddesses can’t die” line? She’s unconscious at worst.
Dw Mortius, as Calypso said- goddesses can't die, and until I hear no piano in any other song ATHENA IS ALIVE
Something I've waited this long to say;
During the end of Thunder Bringer, you hear Athena's piano.
In the same spot where she appears in Ody's memories above the shipwreck in "Love in Paradise".
I'm betting if you go to each of the places she "visits", it'll be there too. Not that I've looked myself.
The stringed instrument during Ares's verse kinda sounds like the Chinese instrument Erhu. GarageBand has a feature with that sound and it sounds very similar to this verse. Love your reactions by the way!
Careful Mortius! You're about to knock the colluseum over!
600 men (600 men) 600 hundred miles of open sea and the problem wasn’t the distance it was me
I really love that you're passionate about the vocals and point out cool things about them but you're like equally passionate about the instrumentals and also the visuals and also Jorge's subtext, it feels like you're not leaving out any angle of appreciating Epic in all the majesty that every artist who touches it brings to the table ❤ I'm obsessed with analyzing every single angle of Epic rn so your reacts and your reacts with Casper are exactly my jam ❤❤❤
Also! Not sure if youve seen Gwendy has been breaking down her God Games animation on her lives, hearing her talk about it and the process is so cool! Would love to see you and Casper react to her The Challenge animatic, she shared some WIP of that too ❤
The only correct form of Hera is now Disco-Hera
I love how the first word you said after Hera's introduction was "holy cow" since that's literally one of her holy animals(along side with a peacock)
Basically Athena could be dead as it could be a creative liberty, I mean the entire end of god games, let alone most of god games was a creative liberty, plus instead of seeing it as an adaptation, Jorge is telling his own story, and ending a character would progress the plot and add to the story, that’s my theory at least.
I think the quickness of the gods to just choose to release odysseus shows how grand they truly are. His life doesnt really matter to them, so they care neither way, and the fact that Athena is pushing them back about as a fellow god is enough for them to let him get released
It’s a little hard to notice the first time but as Athena holds Telemachus, the motif switches from Warrior of the Mind to Legendary 🥲
Loved getting to see this! Also, I really loved Ares's part in this too. His and Zeus's verses are my favorite. I rewind them sooo much
OH MY GOD your reactions and facial expressions are absolutely priceless! This is the first reaction of yours I’ve seen and I love it. New subscriber earned! :D
Poesy's Hera audition sounds nearly identical to the final thing. Jorge asked for "a groovy voice to play Hera", too.
The OBSESSION I have with Luke Holts vocals at the end of this saga is crazy.
I watch these on release on the patreon and I’m still so hyped to see the edited videos when they come out!! Amazing analyzing Mortius! And you’re amazing Mason!!^^
The silence was LOUD at the end...
"But last I checked, goddesses can't die." This was uttered in the same album as God Games, one song ago no less. That animation, which was directed by Jorge himself, seemed pretty definitive, but...I have hope that Athena is gonna be ok lol
Demos of the Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera portions of God Games have been available for at least as far back as when the Ocean Saga released, so people were already pretty familiar with them when this dropped, but they still felt so good as part of this larger whole. The ending of Hera's is just spot on perfect.
I love how Thunder Bringer is basically just Zeus playing with a toy only for this reprise of Thunder Bringer to be “Nahhh, I was playing before, now you’ve pissed me off”
no one's talking about when Athena said "Please reconsider this." it sounded like the verse in Mutiny of Odysseus' "Reconsider..! We can get home..!"
As someone who has already seen god games 😭
I love how when athena is being diplomatic, she sings to the other gods' tune except for aries.
Apollo being the god of medicine in some versions like 🧍♂️🏃♂️➡️
This is completely in line with Zeus’s mythology. He once held a contest to make the best food for the gods where the winner gets a favor from Zeus, a bee won and said that animals keep steeling from them so the bee wants a deadly stinger, for some reason Zeus got pissed at this and said the bee can have a deadly stinger but it’s only going to be deadly to the bee and only annoy the other animals
"Is Athena's memories of Odysseus and Telemachus going to let her DEFEAT ZEUS????!!!!"
**Athena gets completely demolished and looses**
Guess the power of friendship just wasn't enough
In the proper mythology, there was a time that a big kaiju type monster named Typhon ripped out all of Zeus’s tendons and ligaments and left him helpless in a cave. He was completely unable to fix himself and needed an ally (I forget who) to restring him like a guitar. So while gods don’t typically die, they can absolutely be injured and maimed in a way that puts them out of commission.
Oh no you had your eyes closed for all the audience shots! They were so cool and detailed. You should go back to Gwendys part and rewatch