> The rest of the thunder saga is up on Patreon! www.patreon.com/collection/452590?view=expanded > Casper and I will be breaking down Thunder Saga AND remastered Troy/Cyclops on our new channel in just a few weeks! www.youtube.com/@openarmsreactions > Go make sure you're subscribed to and supporting Jorge to thank him for letting me check out the livestream! www.youtube.com/@JayHerrans
I'm so excited for your collab channel!!! I've really been enjoying those! Btw, dont know if you've seen this yet, but Gigi released a full animatic for There Are Other Ways! If you've already seen it then thats Great!! but if you havent yet, might be a good animatic to react to on the new channel? I think it might be one of Gigi's best animatics YET!! Anyways lol, hope you're enjoying you're day so far, great reaction vid! ☺
Oooooh so it all connects! Siren song = I see a song of past romance Scylla Throat = I see the sacrifice of man Mutiny = I see portrayals of betrayal Lighting Bolt = And a brother's final stand
I personally think that "portrayal of betrayal" is odysseus sacrificing 6 of his men because he betrayed his crew, while "a brother's final stand" is eurylochus taking a "final stand" against odysseus because they call each other brother all the time
i see it more as fallows I see a song of past romance: sirens i see the sacrifice of man: scylla i see portrayals of betrayals: mutiny and a brothers final stand: the specific part of mutiny where ody is begging to not kill the cows i see you on the brink of death: his choice between himself and his crew i see you draw your final breath:?
Funfact: Song 21 and 22 were kept a secret from us FOR YEARS, we didn't even knew what their names were or what they were about BECAUSE This are NOT events that happend in the actual Odyssey. So, you can imagine the Winions surprise when song 21 was SUFFERING! An assumed Cut-out song that the only snippet we had from the chorus was YEARS ago!😆
Jorge even said Sirens were cut. And then we got sirens. Jorge just didn't clarify which kind of sirens we were getting lol. In the Odyssey they are bird sirens but they are portrayed as fish sirens here
Poseidon isn't scared of Scylla. His daughter who got turned into a Sea Monster is directly next door to Scylla, and he blames himself for Zeus turning her into a monster
I interpreted it as Poseidon being ashamed and sorry for Charbydis' transformation and didn't want to step on her (metaphorical) tail and enter the territory he had given her or sth. Edit: she got turned cuz she sided with Poseidon in a feud against Zeus for more territory.
“I made a mistake like this, it almost cost my life” notice how Ody isn’t actually thinking of the men who actually got killed by his move. He’s completely focused on himself getting home at this point
True, but remember he was the only one approached by Athena to kill the cyclops and he alone refused. It was not a joint decision amongst the crew, only his.
@@zoerose6194 I think what op means is that, in earlier songs Odysseus was always talking about his men's lives being at stake, but here he says "it almost cost me MY life". The decision was made by him and before he would've reflected on how it got his men killed, but now we see him focusing on his own survival which gives us a glimpse of his changed mindset here
I assume the siren told Odysseus the truth because: 1. She was sure he was under her spell and about to be eaten, so why bother trying to make up another lie on the spot to a dead man? 2. It might be a point of pride for her kind. If they are known to have such broad awareness of the sea, then it might be something she was happy to display when asked.
@@shengdonglin4368 SPOILERS FOR FUTURE SONGS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's the same melody as "Keep your heads down, he's aiming for the torches" from the King Odysseus song. Some people started interpreting this as Monster!Odysseus melody.
the whole "poseidon is scared of scylla" is an EPIC-original idea, but it does hold true to greek mythology; the gods were immortal and all, but could absolutely be hurt and/or poisoned by some monsters.
I think that one of the reasons that Poseidon dosent wanna go there is also because hes still grieving his daughter (aka charybdis or however shes spelled whos also there with scylla) bc she was turned into a horrible monster with no awareness of her soroundings. Poseidon dosent want to go near there so he dosent get reminded of that Sorry if thats wrong actually i just heard a few other people talk about that :>
Gonna be honest, I just assumed Scylla was yet another woman Poseidon used to date and he didn't want to run into his ex because that's always really awkward.
In some myths, Scylla was born from Amphitrite, Poseidon's wife. Whether or not Scylla's dad is Poseidon or Poseidon's son, Triton, is still a point of contention
According to Circe in "Odyssey" even the gods avoiding Scylla. "Inside lives Skylla, yelping hideously; her voice is no deeper than a young puppy's but she herself is a fearsome monster; no one could see her and still be happy, not even a god if he went that way (...) Self-willed man , is your mind then set on further perils, fresh feats of war? Will you not bow to the deathless gods themselves? Skylla is not of mortal kind; she is a deathless monster, grim and baleful, savage, not to be wrestled with. Against her there is no defence, and the best path is the path of flight".
So, now that this is released, I can share this!!! Back in the Underworld Saga, during the song 'No Longer You', Jorge revealed what PART of the choir was singing behind the Prophet. It was actually references to The Thunder Saga!! - Siren Song! - Scylla Throat! - Mutiny! - Lightning Bolt!
A fun fact about "suffering" is that in the Odyssey, Odysseus knew about the sirens beforehand and had his crew plug theirs ears. However, odysseous decided to keep his ears open and vulnerable to the sirens, in another display of his hubris, and his constant mission to prove his strength
He also had them bind him to the mast so that he wouldn't jump overboard. Honestly wish Jay had gone with that. But there have been some animators including that detail
Yeah, it really does show his hubris,. Even better the original song of the sirens was about his own greatness to tempt him lol., they weren’t pretending to be his wife or singing about his wife lol,
@@loftydabird54I personally am glad he didn't, because the Odysseus of Epic is obviously very different from the one of the Odyssey. It would've felt really out of character for this Odysseus to do that "Just because", since he has arguably never been motivated by his hubris so far. Even telling the cyclop his name was more to spite Athena and her philosophy, after she insulted the death of his friends, all for the sake of honour. It was a stupid decision, but definitely not one born of Hubris or pride here, but rather of a slight leading to shortsighted-ness.
Odysseus did that so the rest of the crew would know when it was safe to take out their beeswax. By paying attention to Odysseus' reactions (especially when he stops visibly yelling and screaming) they would know that they're out of earshot of the sirens otherwise they wouldn't know when to unplug their ears.
Songs 21 and 22 were especially hidden by the entire Epic community due to the fact that i think because it had to deal with sirens and all that, they were kept a secret till the release :3 Also! It was confirmed by Jay that he wants Eurylochus to have a huge sword to be apart of his costume!
I believe the reason Ody thought the siren would be truthful to his questioning on a route back home was because, if she truly believed that he was being controlled by her song then he was going to die so why waste extra effort to think about a lie for a route avoiding Poseidon.
I just wanted to say this bc I haven’t seen anyone else point it out directly, but it’s so cool that the siren “penelope” ‘s instrument is the other sirens voices.
So a few things that I've noticed and have been mentioned for these two songs. Suffering: 1. The Song opens to synth beats and distorted voice, hinting to this Penelope being synthetic. This is further hinted at as she has singers to harmonize with, Her siren sisters. 2. The lines "I Could/Can/Will take the suffering from you." Has several meanings, firstly is Penelope could sooth Odysseus's suffering. Second, the Siren can end Odysseus's suffering by killing him. And thirdly, the Siren will take on suffering by the hands of Odysseus and his crew in the end though she doesn't yet know it. Different Beast: 1. The line "we are the ones who feast now." is not only mocking the Sirens for getting caught, but is a callback to Polyphemus who was going to make a feast of Odysseus and crew. 2. The Shift from the word We, to He for the last chorus may be foreshadowing for what is to happen next, in Monster Odysseus stipulates "If I became the monster to everyone but us..." but now his crew is singling him out as The man made monster." making it pretty clear what choices he's going to make in the future.
Yep! In most forms of lore for Sirens, they often drown their victims after causing them to crash their ships against rocks or making the crew jump ship to reach them.
In some of the myths, sirens were fated to die if someone heard their singing and escaped them, and that after Odysseus passed by they therefore flung themselves into the water and perished.
I feel that the reason the sirens told him how to escape is because of pride they believe that all the men on his crew will die so they see no issue in just telling him how to escape
Fun fact: scylla is Poseidon's ex lover ,they broke up after a curse was placed on her and she turned into the monster she is now ,but it's kind funny to think Poseidon is scared of him ex
It wasn’t Poseidon. It was Glaucos, the mortal circe turned into a god. Poseidon’s daughter who was also turned into a monster is right next door to scylla. And he feels bad for her transformation. Hope this helps!
Actually you are right in some versions its Poseidon who’s with Scylla. Fun thing about Greek Myth is that there is no definitive Depends on the story she is either Born a monster Love of Glaucus and turned into a monster by jealous Circe Lover of Poseidon who got turned into a monster by jealous Amphitrite Her parentage swings wildly. We’ve got Hecate, Poseidon, Apollo, Sea nymphs, Oceanids, etc. Nothing is consistent! :D
BEEN WAITING FOR THIS, also Anna Lea is the one playing Penelope!, she sounds absolutely beautiful in this saga, and she was in Keep Your Friends Close only when Ody was daydreaming!
A thing I saw from another commenter on another channel which I forgot so credit to them. Poseidon would be "scared" of the lair of Scylla because that is where Charybdis lies as well. And it just so happens that Charybdis was a nymph daughter of his who was transformed into a horrible monster for reasons I forgot right now. So he would not wander around out of grief, as much as he can grief lmao. In any case I really liked this take so I'm putting it here. Again credits to the person who made the comment !
There are many reasons but the main one was that she would drown islands to expand her father's domain. There also is another myth where Scylla was actually a nymph who Poseidon courted before his future wife cursed her.
@jasonsmith6219 Thank you, I could not remember for the life of me. I also did not know about this myth, I'm more familiar with the Circe bit. Which begs the question why isn't Charybdis in the Thunder Saga. Spoiler : I know she appears later when Odysseus finally leaves Calypso's Island which in a way makes sense because if I remember correctly her island isn't far from Scylla and Charybdis.
@SiIker. Because, there's no way that Odysseus' ship would survive that encounter. You'd need a smaller vessel to have any hope of riding the edge of her whirlpool
11:44 In Greek Mythology, when you go to the Underworld it is not automatically "Hell", but they had to go to the Underworld to find out how to return home and avoid Poseidon, so when they literally found out that the prophet would not help them, Odysseus realized that if he wanted to return home he must become a "Monster" and bypass obstacles without mercy, and when they came out of the Underworld they entered the waters of the sirens, and Poseidon probably knows that, and thinks that they will take care of Odysseus, but Odysseus was ready, and got the information where to go where Poseidon will not follow, so this was the plan to get around him.
I watched the live stream so it isn’t new to me, but I just want to see your reaction. Honestly, I paid attention more to the animatics then lyrics because I knew what would happen later on. But still excited for your reaction
The reason eurilicyes sword is like that is because Jorge once said he always imagined him having a giant sword like in anime. So now everyone gives him one
The worst part about the sirens is that they're doomed to perish if someone hears their song and survives it. That's why the "cut off their tails" isn't in the Odyssey, because Odysseus doesn't cover his ears with beeswax and is able to hear the song tied up to the ship's mast, therefore the sirens die once the crew past by. Since in Epic all of them cover their ears, this is the way Jorge found to kill the sirens.
28:15 OMG did anyone notice the lyric changed from (He/We) (is/are) the man made monster To (He/We) (is/are) the man-made monster There’s a hyphen now! Which means grammatically, the men are now talking about how Odysseus man-made himself into a monster unlike before where they were just saying they’ve turned into monsters.
@@officialmortiusnoooo, I’ve learned it was simply a typo on the livestream. It’s hyphened every time in the lyrics provided everywhere else. But it would’ve been a nice detail
Jay just uploaded a video about Suffering explaining how the sirens work. Here's some fun facts! - The siren can read Odysseus' memories a bit since her music techically reached his ears, allowing her to figure out how to lure him into the water - But because Odysseus cannot hear the siren, she misreads his memories, like when she says 'come play with me and our *daughter*.' - Penelope, like all the characters, had a certain instrument, the Viola. But it's never present in Suffering. But you know what is? Polities instrument! (😢) - When the siren explains how Poesidon will chase Odysseus, it's the same melody from when Zeus tells Odysseus that the baby will tear down his throne and all that
The reason Odysseus doesn't always know the exact amount of time they've been gone is because Polities was the one who kept track of the time (And bc Jorge messed up hehe)
my guess for why he expected the sirens to be truthful about the route is that in some mythos, the sirens sing about what you desire to lure you. Ody tricks the siren to sing about the route to get home as by making it clear that was his desire
21:20 Mythologically speaking, the sirens (and other monsters that don't have frequent human contact) have very poor social intelligence. They are typically portrayed as acting instinctively, just barely above animal intelligence. The siren is probably baffled why Odysseus isn't lunch yet and the whole conversation is metaphorically kicking the vending machine to make the candy bar fall down. The amount of thinking that would go into 1) understanding that Odysseus might be lying or hiding his true intentions 2) understanding why he's asking these questions 3) constructing a subversive narrative that sounds like what he wants but isn't true and 4) doing all this on the fly without the very socially intelligent Odysseus noticing is just beyond the capacity you would expect isolated monsters to have. Odysseus probably thought it was worth a shot and that he could tell if they did try to lie because they would do it with the social graces of a toddler.
So, the first hint that Penelope is not actually Penelope, is the absence of the beautiful violin that always accompanies her, and that the "Penelope" was slightly different and off key - rather than a mediocre imitation, one might say. And of course - the electro music, that signifies magic
21:31 She wants to trick him. Giving people what they want is one of the easiest ways. Also, if he was under her spell, her guard would be down because it wouldn’t matter what she says he’d just hang onto every word.
i think it's so funny that multiple people have heard the "Come play with me and our Daughter!" line and instantly went "wait does Odysseus have a daughter? since when???" instead of clocking it as mistake on the Siren's part
🧜♀Regarding the song of the Sirens, this may be original to Epic and inspired by Percy Jackson, since in the second book Annabeth tells us how the Sirens reveal unspoken truths to those who listen to their songs. That combined with the fact that mythologically the Sirens sing about your desires and want (Odysseus' want is to return home) can result in when they sing they cannot lie if you ask about something you desire and they know the answer, clearly if they don't we end up with a Telemachus who according to them is a girl. In summary: The mermaids sing about your wishes and unspoken truths that they know + Odysseus wants to return home and asks how to do it = The mermaid is sincere because she is singing an answer to something she knows and Odysseus wants, so that he enters the water and she can eat it😋
AHHHH I LOVED WATCHING YOUR REACTIONS!! When I first heard Suffering I was literally in the same boat (no pun intended of) “Penelope POV? Wait, no not daughter? Huh??” HAHAHA
Something I’ve noticed in different beasts and the underworld is that in both of them when odysseus belts “all I hear are screams” and “cut off their tails” it really sounds like Poseidon which is an cool connection to make because of his whole ruthlessness is mercy thing.
SPOILERS FOR THE LAST TWO SONGS (for everyone who hasn’t listened to them yet) When Morris’s asked if they are eating the sirens, I just had to laugh. Because no, they are not, and that is a bad thing XD
I love the deep voices of the crew during Different Beast. I envision the crew circling the trapped sirens like a hungry wolf pack snapping at their prey.
Can we just talk about how they are the ONES who FEAST now? Polyphemus' saga was about hunger and we bring this theme back. And CUT off the TAILS?!?!? I can swear they kept the fish tails for sashimi, I SWEAR IT, I SAY!!!
I think the siren figured, "You're not leaving alive, so it doesn't matter if I tell you the truth or not." Which makes sense because usually, no one can resist their song.
Fun fact, I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the super deep voice in Different Beast that’s part of the crew is Luke Holt, the voice of Zeus! 😁
Honestly your videos and Casper's videos are the bright side to this last few weeks. Finals were killing me and to stop for a few minutes to watch your videos are one of the reasons that I manege to go thru them without going insane. Thank you so much for your amazing reactions that never stop to make me smile. Don't forget to take care of yourself!! Lots of love all the whey from Brazilian 💜
Dude! Thank you so much for releasing this 3 minutes after I get off work!!!🥳🥳🥳 Now I don't have to be sad that they normally come out when I have an hour or half an hour left! I should already be on my way home when this drops!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!🥰🥰🥰💖💖💖💖
Ill be honest, first thought when hearing suffering was that we were seeing what it was like in Ithaca. . Then odysseus comes in, and i think, ‘oh, this is a flashback’! It wasnt until one too many mentions of water that i was like 🤔 wait a minute
Same! And i was like... daughter??? I genuinely though Penelope was secretly pregnant when Ody left for the war and then i was like... ok wait.... It’s a test lmao
So apparently Scylla is Poseidon's daughter who was turned into a monster by Circe of all people, and it's less that he's scared of her and more that he can't face what she turned into since he can't save her.
My favorite thing in Suffering is how Penelope's line "he will chase you high and low..." musically echoes Zeus' line in The Horse and the Infant when talking about the baby. Both are talking about a foe who'd do anything to end Odysseus and punish him for his past actions.
I love watching your reaction, thoughts, and analysis, but gosh darn it without fail i get into a song and start singing then it's paused like "nooo my mojo" lol
One of the reasons Eurylochus is commonly given a giant anime sword in all the animatics is because the teaser short for Mutiny that was shot on a beach has the voice actors holding sticks to represent their swords and Eurylochus' Voice Actor has a noticeably bigger stick. Also, that's not Cloud Strife's Buster Sword. That's the Dragonslayer Sword from Berserk which is the cultural origin of the modern version of "Character with Absurdly Giant Sword" trope seen in a lot of anime and manga.
"Why are you making him go to the worst places" Fellow author here: What Jay is doing is completely responsible and normal. Us authors, we love to torture our children aka our characters. I present to you all the ✨author mindset✨ Crazy how the most upbeat and happy song of the musical so far (idk, knowing thunder bringer) is called "Suffering"
20:59, in the original tale Odysseus actually had the crew tie him to a mast of the ship then fill their own ears with beeswax cuz he wanted to hear the Siren songs. He begged and plead the whole time to be released so he could join the sirens but since the crew couldn't hear him they kept rowing and no one was sacrificed to the Sirens
Also, about cutting their tails? Yeah, they can't technically swim without them but also you know what they said : "we are the ones who feast now" ? The top part of the siren is human, but the down part, the "tail"? Fish. Fair play for the table, that's the main reason to cut off tails and just throw bodies out as byproduct.
Yay for visuals! I watched the live stream, but didn't immediately rewatch (rewind and replay visuals as I was watching) because I thought I could rewatch the whole thing later to analyze the visuals and lyrics better 😢
8:32 I say it could be Canon that Odysseus has some sort of trauma from that but also I think if anything he only would develop a fear of the water after like Get in the water has also occurred.
One thing I haven't seen anyone point out is that at towards the end of the song when the sirens tails are being cut off the crew sings the same melody from Remember Them when Odysseus and his crew stabbed the cyclops in the eye
And just an add-on. If I'm not wrong in the original Odyssey Odysseus ordered his men to fill their ears but tie him up to the mast because he wanted to hear the sirens, but it's impressive that Epic Odysseus is so badass that he can read a siren's lips so accurately he can trick her into thinking he's enchanted just scared
Something that upset me was that there was one person who kept repeatedly calling attention to the livestream being pulled off of UA-cam, and having done so after I said thank you to Jorge and the cast/crew making it so accessible to someone like me who has auditory processing issues (autism/adhd) and is experiencing unilateral deafness (left ear). The way the lyrics worked, the visual descriptions, and the animatics made my first and only Epic livestream incredibly accessible to me in a way media has *never* been. This person was calling attention to the inaccessibility of the livestream because they couldn't watch due to working, and they couldn't come back afterwards because it was taken down so swiftly. They kept calling attention to it, and were very angry about not being able to watch, when many others who couldn't accepted that, sometimes life and timezones prevent us from doing so, it sucks, but they were still enjoying the songs on various streaming platforms without calling it inaccessible and unaccommodating to their personal life priorities etc. I've been an editor and co-creator of content before. I understood why they would pull the streams, and I also understood that the streams are *always* unlisted immediately afterwards before I got into the livestream. I'm also homeless, but I'm a homeless college student and made certain I wouldn't be in class, attending to a work study, etc. during the livestream. (I then almost had a heart attack because something happened at the end of the final song at the same time as a firework went off for the Fourth of July. Timing lmao). I wanted to say thank you, Mortius, for taking the time to help educate people about the reasons behind why the livestream was unlisted. I really wish people would stop uploading the stolen stream and content, because it not only hurts the Epic cast and crew, but it also hurts the creators of the animatics. It takes revenue and viewership away from the people who created these wonderful songs, visuals, and more...and it sucks. I understand why people want to upload it all, but I would much rather wait a month to let Jorge and everyone involved with Epic's production get their revenue and the peak/climax of the viewership and streams etc. before *asking* for the livestream to be unlisted at a later date. Instead it feels like everything has been stolen and I'm seeing thousands of people turning to the stolen and uploaded (without consent) livestreams and that's tanking the numbers we were seeing for the album listings on various streaming platforms. They're already losing the money that helps them to produce this wonderful content because of that one company, they don't need help to lose even more.
> The rest of the thunder saga is up on Patreon! www.patreon.com/collection/452590?view=expanded
> Casper and I will be breaking down Thunder Saga AND remastered Troy/Cyclops on our new channel in just a few weeks! www.youtube.com/@openarmsreactions
> Go make sure you're subscribed to and supporting Jorge to thank him for letting me check out the livestream! www.youtube.com/@JayHerrans
I'm so excited for your collab channel!!! I've really been enjoying those!
Btw, dont know if you've seen this yet, but Gigi released a full animatic for There Are Other Ways! If you've already seen it then thats Great!! but if you havent yet, might be a good animatic to react to on the new channel? I think it might be one of Gigi's best animatics YET!! Anyways lol, hope you're enjoying you're day so far, great reaction vid! ☺
the first two song names were never released till we all saw them
Awesome! Where did you find the videos?
I do love the idea that Odysseus just has a daughter that he simply doesn't like.
He went through a character arc during quarantine.
He got worse if you're wondering.
Oooooh so it all connects!
Siren song = I see a song of past romance
Scylla Throat = I see the sacrifice of man
Mutiny = I see portrayals of betrayal
Lighting Bolt = And a brother's final stand
OHH i DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THE SIREN PART
I personally think that "portrayal of betrayal" is odysseus sacrificing 6 of his men because he betrayed his crew, while "a brother's final stand" is eurylochus taking a "final stand" against odysseus because they call each other brother all the time
i see it more as fallows
I see a song of past romance: sirens
i see the sacrifice of man: scylla
i see portrayals of betrayals: mutiny
and a brothers final stand: the specific part of mutiny where ody is begging to not kill the cows
i see you on the brink of death: his choice between himself and his crew
i see you draw your final breath:?
@@Gheshy He drowned, perhaps?
@@Gheshythe draw his last final breath is when he stops being the ody we know, and becomes the monster we see him become
"About 12 years or so"
It's confirmed, Polites had the calendar XD😭
The issue is, Polities is now a 🥞
Really
So you are saying he knew his days were numbered? 🤣
💀 @@TsarAlexander395
@@TsarAlexander395 Naw, he was just the only one keeping track of everyone's birthdays 😭
Jay specifically said that he wants Eurylochus to have a giant anime sword XD
Yeah, he specifically said he wanted Eurylochus to look like cloud strife, shoulderpad and giant anime sword and all
Never underestimate the nerdiness of a man making an entire musical based on The Odyssey
I can confirm this :D
@@ns2dstudiosoh lord hi! I loved that scene!! Can’t wait for the full animatics soon!
But it's so ridiculous 😂😂😂
Funfact: Song 21 and 22 were kept a secret from us FOR YEARS, we didn't even knew what their names were or what they were about BECAUSE This are NOT events that happend in the actual Odyssey.
So, you can imagine the Winions surprise when song 21 was SUFFERING! An assumed Cut-out song that the only snippet we had from the chorus was YEARS ago!😆
You can ALSO imagine our surprise given we thought the Sirens were cut from EPIC!
@@aadityayanamandra8846 I don’t know if it was just me, but I fully expected those songs to be the sirens
I guess you say the sirens were “cut” in a different way-
(This was such a fun surprise seeing suffering.second favorite in this saga)
@@aadityayanamandra8846 i mean, jorge didn't lie, they were cut, he just didn't tell us how
Jorge even said Sirens were cut. And then we got sirens. Jorge just didn't clarify which kind of sirens we were getting lol. In the Odyssey they are bird sirens but they are portrayed as fish sirens here
Poseidon isn't scared of Scylla. His daughter who got turned into a Sea Monster is directly next door to Scylla, and he blames himself for Zeus turning her into a monster
I interpreted it as Poseidon being ashamed and sorry for Charbydis' transformation and didn't want to step on her (metaphorical) tail and enter the territory he had given her or sth.
Edit: she got turned cuz she sided with Poseidon in a feud against Zeus for more territory.
SUES, LOL. THE DOCTOR.
Thanks now I imagined Poseidon locked out of his daughters room because she's moody 😂
@@MinionEnji"dont mess with cat in the hat"
Well, its different in Epic lore because Charybdis is not near Scylla in Epic
“I made a mistake like this, it almost cost my life” notice how Ody isn’t actually thinking of the men who actually got killed by his move. He’s completely focused on himself getting home at this point
Yup, I love that detail!
True, but remember he was the only one approached by Athena to kill the cyclops and he alone refused. It was not a joint decision amongst the crew, only his.
@@zoerose6194 I think what op means is that, in earlier songs Odysseus was always talking about his men's lives being at stake, but here he says "it almost cost me MY life". The decision was made by him and before he would've reflected on how it got his men killed, but now we see him focusing on his own survival which gives us a glimpse of his changed mindset here
I assume the siren told Odysseus the truth because:
1. She was sure he was under her spell and about to be eaten, so why bother trying to make up another lie on the spot to a dead man?
2. It might be a point of pride for her kind. If they are known to have such broad awareness of the sea, then it might be something she was happy to display when asked.
Penelope Siren:
Another Siren:
Illusion = broken
@@NetherStray"penelosiren hisses"why would you say that "
"lip-read, gaslight, gatekeep, Odysseus" mew life motto discovered lmao (20:58)
Gaslight, gatekeep, Eurylboss.
@@theratking3075 I both hate and love you for this.
"My real wife knows I'm not scared of the water"
Keep that melody in mind :D
Wait why?!
@@shengdonglin4368 SPOILERS FOR FUTURE SONGS
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It's the same melody as "Keep your heads down, he's aiming for the torches" from the King Odysseus song. Some people started interpreting this as Monster!Odysseus melody.
@@MasterZeus94OMG I DINT REALIZE
ALSO, it is parallel to "There's been a misunderstanding!.." from Polyphemus!!
wait please explain;;
"Just stop making him go to the worst places!"
That's it. That's the Odyssey in a nutshell.
the whole "poseidon is scared of scylla" is an EPIC-original idea, but it does hold true to greek mythology; the gods were immortal and all, but could absolutely be hurt and/or poisoned by some monsters.
I think that one of the reasons that Poseidon dosent wanna go there is also because hes still grieving his daughter (aka charybdis or however shes spelled whos also there with scylla) bc she was turned into a horrible monster with no awareness of her soroundings. Poseidon dosent want to go near there so he dosent get reminded of that
Sorry if thats wrong actually i just heard a few other people talk about that :>
@DerangedArtist145 this is the actual reason. And you spelled her name right!
Gonna be honest, I just assumed Scylla was yet another woman Poseidon used to date and he didn't want to run into his ex because that's always really awkward.
In some myths, Scylla was born from Amphitrite, Poseidon's wife. Whether or not Scylla's dad is Poseidon or Poseidon's son, Triton, is still a point of contention
According to Circe in "Odyssey" even the gods avoiding Scylla. "Inside lives Skylla, yelping hideously; her voice is no deeper than a young puppy's but she herself is a fearsome monster; no one could see her and still be happy, not even a god if he went that way (...) Self-willed man , is your mind then set on further perils, fresh feats of war? Will you not bow to the deathless gods themselves? Skylla is not of mortal kind; she is a deathless monster, grim and baleful, savage, not to be wrestled with. Against her there is no defence, and the best path is the path of flight".
So, now that this is released, I can share this!!!
Back in the Underworld Saga, during the song 'No Longer You', Jorge revealed what PART of the choir was singing behind the Prophet. It was actually references to The Thunder Saga!!
- Siren Song!
- Scylla Throat!
- Mutiny!
- Lightning Bolt!
its so clear when you know omg!
I still don't know what he says in the part between "lightning bolt" and "kill all the suiters for love"
A fun fact about "suffering" is that in the Odyssey, Odysseus knew about the sirens beforehand and had his crew plug theirs ears. However, odysseous decided to keep his ears open and vulnerable to the sirens, in another display of his hubris, and his constant mission to prove his strength
He also had them bind him to the mast so that he wouldn't jump overboard. Honestly wish Jay had gone with that. But there have been some animators including that detail
Yeah, it really does show his hubris,. Even better the original song of the sirens was about his own greatness to tempt him lol., they weren’t pretending to be his wife or singing about his wife lol,
@@loftydabird54I personally am glad he didn't, because the Odysseus of Epic is obviously very different from the one of the Odyssey. It would've felt really out of character for this Odysseus to do that "Just because", since he has arguably never been motivated by his hubris so far. Even telling the cyclop his name was more to spite Athena and her philosophy, after she insulted the death of his friends, all for the sake of honour. It was a stupid decision, but definitely not one born of Hubris or pride here, but rather of a slight leading to shortsighted-ness.
He even changed the type of sirens. The sirens in the Odyssey were actually bird-women and not mermaid-like beings.
Odysseus did that so the rest of the crew would know when it was safe to take out their beeswax. By paying attention to Odysseus' reactions (especially when he stops visibly yelling and screaming) they would know that they're out of earshot of the sirens otherwise they wouldn't know when to unplug their ears.
Songs 21 and 22 were especially hidden by the entire Epic community due to the fact that i think because it had to deal with sirens and all that, they were kept a secret till the release :3
Also! It was confirmed by Jay that he wants Eurylochus to have a huge sword to be apart of his costume!
I can confirm this!
@@ns2dstudios OH MY GOD NO WAY
Me: sees mortius has a new upcoming video
Me: sees the thumbnail
Me: 🥹🥹🥹🤩🤩😭
I wouldn’t have it any other way!
I was so happy when I saw your animatic for a different beast, also your joke animatic of six torches. 😊😊😊😊😊
I think your style was absolutely the best one to capture that moment, that animation was epic
@@ezracohen6020 Thank you so much! It was such an honor to have worked on the unreleased song! I had to keep a tight lid on it for months!
I believe the reason Ody thought the siren would be truthful to his questioning on a route back home was because, if she truly believed that he was being controlled by her song then he was going to die so why waste extra effort to think about a lie for a route avoiding Poseidon.
Eurylochos having a Bustersword styled weapon is actually a very early design choice of Jorges so yes it's canon :D
No one seems to point this out, but I like the detail that the bow sound effect is the same from the beginning of the Cyclops saga.
I just wanted to say this bc I haven’t seen anyone else point it out directly, but it’s so cool that the siren “penelope” ‘s instrument is the other sirens voices.
So a few things that I've noticed and have been mentioned for these two songs.
Suffering:
1. The Song opens to synth beats and distorted voice, hinting to this Penelope being synthetic. This is further hinted at as she has singers to harmonize with, Her siren sisters.
2. The lines "I Could/Can/Will take the suffering from you." Has several meanings, firstly is Penelope could sooth Odysseus's suffering. Second, the Siren can end Odysseus's suffering by killing him. And thirdly, the Siren will take on suffering by the hands of Odysseus and his crew in the end though she doesn't yet know it.
Different Beast:
1. The line "we are the ones who feast now." is not only mocking the Sirens for getting caught, but is a callback to Polyphemus who was going to make a feast of Odysseus and crew.
2. The Shift from the word We, to He for the last chorus may be foreshadowing for what is to happen next, in Monster Odysseus stipulates "If I became the monster to everyone but us..." but now his crew is singling him out as The man made monster." making it pretty clear what choices he's going to make in the future.
The fact he killed the sirens by drowning is ironic because I believe the sirens killed by drowning their victims
Yep! In most forms of lore for Sirens, they often drown their victims after causing them to crash their ships against rocks or making the crew jump ship to reach them.
In some of the myths, sirens were fated to die if someone heard their singing and escaped them, and that after Odysseus passed by they therefore flung themselves into the water and perished.
you have to wonder if Ody's decision making was impacted by the sight of his wife telling him "this is your only way home."
"we are back and we are suffering"
Mood, you are not wrong though
I feel that the reason the sirens told him how to escape is because of pride they believe that all the men on his crew will die so they see no issue in just telling him how to escape
Cf in the whole vid: is this poseidon in ody's dreams?
Mort in the first 5 seconds: sirens?
He can't help it, but now we have Posiren.
MORTI, Idk if you see it earlier, but our friend ElianZiS made so beautiful animatic for "Scylla" (Jorge posted it on his shorts a while back)
Well it is still just a short, not the entire song. Hoping they do the entire song though!
The "Oh No" from Siren-Penelope is giving the same energy as the "But No" that Wet Hades gave in Ruthlessness XD
Not Wet Hades 🤣🤣🤣I’ve seen so many comments of it I’m sure I’ve seen you before oml
remember the "I see a SONG OF PAST romance~"
The way you can instantly tell it’s not Penelope singing bc her instrument isn’t in the background
Fun fact: scylla is Poseidon's ex lover ,they broke up after a curse was placed on her and she turned into the monster she is now ,but it's kind funny to think Poseidon is scared of him ex
It wasn’t Poseidon. It was Glaucos, the mortal circe turned into a god. Poseidon’s daughter who was also turned into a monster is right next door to scylla. And he feels bad for her transformation. Hope this helps!
@@Eyk-o4m Circe was so petty! :O
Actually you are right in some versions its Poseidon who’s with Scylla. Fun thing about Greek Myth is that there is no definitive
Depends on the story she is either
Born a monster
Love of Glaucus and turned into a monster by jealous Circe
Lover of Poseidon who got turned into a monster by jealous Amphitrite
Her parentage swings wildly. We’ve got Hecate, Poseidon, Apollo, Sea nymphs, Oceanids, etc. Nothing is consistent! :D
BEEN WAITING FOR THIS, also Anna Lea is the one playing Penelope!, she sounds absolutely beautiful in this saga, and she was in Keep Your Friends Close only when Ody was daydreaming!
A thing I saw from another commenter on another channel which I forgot so credit to them.
Poseidon would be "scared" of the lair of Scylla because that is where Charybdis lies as well. And it just so happens that Charybdis was a nymph daughter of his who was transformed into a horrible monster for reasons I forgot right now. So he would not wander around out of grief, as much as he can grief lmao.
In any case I really liked this take so I'm putting it here. Again credits to the person who made the comment !
There are many reasons but the main one was that she would drown islands to expand her father's domain.
There also is another myth where Scylla was actually a nymph who Poseidon courted before his future wife cursed her.
@jasonsmith6219 Thank you, I could not remember for the life of me. I also did not know about this myth, I'm more familiar with the Circe bit. Which begs the question why isn't Charybdis in the Thunder Saga. Spoiler :
I know she appears later when Odysseus finally leaves Calypso's Island which in a way makes sense because if I remember correctly her island isn't far from Scylla and Charybdis.
@SiIker. Because, there's no way that Odysseus' ship would survive that encounter. You'd need a smaller vessel to have any hope of riding the edge of her whirlpool
11:44 In Greek Mythology, when you go to the Underworld it is not automatically "Hell", but they had to go to the Underworld to find out how to return home and avoid Poseidon, so when they literally found out that the prophet would not help them, Odysseus realized that if he wanted to return home he must become a "Monster" and bypass obstacles without mercy, and when they came out of the Underworld they entered the waters of the sirens, and Poseidon probably knows that, and thinks that they will take care of Odysseus, but Odysseus was ready, and got the information where to go where Poseidon will not follow, so this was the plan to get around him.
I watched the live stream so it isn’t new to me, but I just want to see your reaction. Honestly, I paid attention more to the animatics then lyrics because I knew what would happen later on. But still excited for your reaction
The reason eurilicyes sword is like that is because Jorge once said he always imagined him having a giant sword like in anime. So now everyone gives him one
The worst part about the sirens is that they're doomed to perish if someone hears their song and survives it. That's why the "cut off their tails" isn't in the Odyssey, because Odysseus doesn't cover his ears with beeswax and is able to hear the song tied up to the ship's mast, therefore the sirens die once the crew past by. Since in Epic all of them cover their ears, this is the way Jorge found to kill the sirens.
Also I don’t think they originally had tails, so they couldn’t really cut them off
28:15 OMG did anyone notice the lyric changed from
(He/We) (is/are) the man made monster
To
(He/We) (is/are) the man-made monster
There’s a hyphen now! Which means grammatically, the men are now talking about how Odysseus man-made himself into a monster unlike before where they were just saying they’ve turned into monsters.
Oh INTERESTING
@@officialmortiusnoooo, I’ve learned it was simply a typo on the livestream. It’s hyphened every time in the lyrics provided everywhere else. But it would’ve been a nice detail
Jay just uploaded a video about Suffering explaining how the sirens work. Here's some fun facts!
- The siren can read Odysseus' memories a bit since her music techically reached his ears, allowing her to figure out how to lure him into the water
- But because Odysseus cannot hear the siren, she misreads his memories, like when she says 'come play with me and our *daughter*.'
- Penelope, like all the characters, had a certain instrument, the Viola. But it's never present in Suffering. But you know what is? Polities instrument! (😢)
- When the siren explains how Poesidon will chase Odysseus, it's the same melody from when Zeus tells Odysseus that the baby will tear down his throne and all that
FUDGE YES!!!!! I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE YOUR REACTION TO DIFFERENT BEAST! (BY FAR MY FAVORITE) 36 HOURS TO GO!!
The ‘What?!’ in “Different Beast” is the final instance of the ‘…What?’ in the entire musical
Do we know that for a fact? There can still be other "what"s in parts of the songs that haven’t been released
@@Cataly_ely No Jay said that the last part of the "what saga" would be in the thunder saga, so theyre right
@@Cataly_ely
Jorge mentioned there was only one use of “…What?” in the entirety of Act 2 (he says this after The Underworld Saga was released)
Also anyone notice the nice triplet (?) in the "but while you were so focused on turning my men into snacks" it's so clean and beautiful
13:19 “Don’t get in the water!”
Odysseus: “Bet”
12:22 There are multiple people in Greek Mythology that the big 3 were scared of. Circe was one of them.
I believe some interpretations of Eros was another one?? Maybe...
The reason Odysseus doesn't always know the exact amount of time they've been gone is because Polities was the one who kept track of the time (And bc Jorge messed up hehe)
my guess for why he expected the sirens to be truthful about the route is that in some mythos, the sirens sing about what you desire to lure you. Ody tricks the siren to sing about the route to get home as by making it clear that was his desire
Did you hear the high pitched siren screams as they die? Yea..... Haunting
21:20 Mythologically speaking, the sirens (and other monsters that don't have frequent human contact) have very poor social intelligence. They are typically portrayed as acting instinctively, just barely above animal intelligence. The siren is probably baffled why Odysseus isn't lunch yet and the whole conversation is metaphorically kicking the vending machine to make the candy bar fall down. The amount of thinking that would go into 1) understanding that Odysseus might be lying or hiding his true intentions 2) understanding why he's asking these questions 3) constructing a subversive narrative that sounds like what he wants but isn't true and 4) doing all this on the fly without the very socially intelligent Odysseus noticing is just beyond the capacity you would expect isolated monsters to have. Odysseus probably thought it was worth a shot and that he could tell if they did try to lie because they would do it with the social graces of a toddler.
18:44 Yeah, Jorge revealed in an easter eggs short that Eurylochus has a Cloud Strife sword, lol
So, the first hint that Penelope is not actually Penelope, is the absence of the beautiful violin that always accompanies her, and that the "Penelope" was slightly different and off key - rather than a mediocre imitation, one might say.
And of course - the electro music, that signifies magic
21:31 She wants to trick him. Giving people what they want is one of the easiest ways. Also, if he was under her spell, her guard would be down because it wouldn’t matter what she says he’d just hang onto every word.
Polities in the backroung
"This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms".......
The soldiers are probably lower to show their conctions with Eurylochus
i think it's so funny that multiple people have heard the "Come play with me and our Daughter!" line and instantly went "wait does Odysseus have a daughter? since when???" instead of clocking it as mistake on the Siren's part
Love how mortius immediately realizes the sirens and Casper goes on this train of Poseidon Penelope
Not so fun fact, some people do think that Odysseus ordered to cut off all the siren's tails because they needed food.
🧜♀Regarding the song of the Sirens, this may be original to Epic and inspired by Percy Jackson, since in the second book Annabeth tells us how the Sirens reveal unspoken truths to those who listen to their songs. That combined with the fact that mythologically the Sirens sing about your desires and want (Odysseus' want is to return home) can result in when they sing they cannot lie if you ask about something you desire and they know the answer, clearly if they don't we end up with a Telemachus who according to them is a girl.
In summary: The mermaids sing about your wishes and unspoken truths that they know + Odysseus wants to return home and asks how to do it = The mermaid is sincere because she is singing an answer to something she knows and Odysseus wants, so that he enters the water and she can eat it😋
AHHHH I LOVED WATCHING YOUR REACTIONS!! When I first heard Suffering I was literally in the same boat (no pun intended of) “Penelope POV? Wait, no not daughter? Huh??” HAHAHA
Loganne!! I can’t wait to hear YOUR art come into play for this saga 🤩 Thank you for your support!
Something I’ve noticed in different beasts and the underworld is that in both of them when odysseus belts “all I hear are screams” and “cut off their tails” it really sounds like Poseidon which is an cool connection to make because of his whole ruthlessness is mercy thing.
SPOILERS FOR THE LAST TWO SONGS (for everyone who hasn’t listened to them yet)
When Morris’s asked if they are eating the sirens, I just had to laugh. Because no, they are not, and that is a bad thing XD
"Oh that's some siren nonsense right there" is one of my favourite new sentences
I love the deep voices of the crew during Different Beast. I envision the crew circling the trapped sirens like a hungry wolf pack snapping at their prey.
i love how Jay used Penelope's Voice Actor for the Siren's it works way to well.
Odysseus: *attacks 'Penelope'*
Mortius: *is physically repelled out of the area*
The "don't you miss me" for some reason made every hair on my body stand up, and I don't know why 0-0.
Can we just talk about how they are the ONES who FEAST now? Polyphemus' saga was about hunger and we bring this theme back. And CUT off the TAILS?!?!? I can swear they kept the fish tails for sashimi, I SWEAR IT, I SAY!!!
Which is ironic since the crew dies at the end of this saga because they killed the cattle cause they were starving lol
thinking about Different Beast as Ody's literal *villain monologue* following Monster is just... UGH im obsessed
I just realized that when he ask the siren how to get home, the siren sings the same melody as Zeus during horse and the infant.
I think the siren figured, "You're not leaving alive, so it doesn't matter if I tell you the truth or not." Which makes sense because usually, no one can resist their song.
Fun fact, I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the super deep voice in Different Beast that’s part of the crew is Luke Holt, the voice of Zeus! 😁
Somthing i realised in Different Beast is Odysseus Going "Kill them all" and the last word of the crew is "odysseus" is forshadowing so much
Honestly your videos and Casper's videos are the bright side to this last few weeks. Finals were killing me and to stop for a few minutes to watch your videos are one of the reasons that I manege to go thru them without going insane. Thank you so much for your amazing reactions that never stop to make me smile. Don't forget to take care of yourself!! Lots of love all the whey from Brazilian 💜
16:00 "I'm worse now!" love it
Dude! Thank you so much for releasing this 3 minutes after I get off work!!!🥳🥳🥳 Now I don't have to be sad that they normally come out when I have an hour or half an hour left! I should already be on my way home when this drops!!!
Thank you thank you thank you!!!🥰🥰🥰💖💖💖💖
"That's some siren nonsense!"
Please make that into merch somehow, it's perfect.
Ill be honest, first thought when hearing suffering was that we were seeing what it was like in Ithaca. . Then odysseus comes in, and i think, ‘oh, this is a flashback’! It wasnt until one too many mentions of water that i was like 🤔 wait a minute
Same! And i was like... daughter???
I genuinely though Penelope was secretly pregnant when Ody left for the war and then i was like... ok wait.... It’s a test lmao
So apparently Scylla is Poseidon's daughter who was turned into a monster by Circe of all people, and it's less that he's scared of her and more that he can't face what she turned into since he can't save her.
"we are BACK and we are SUFFERING" literally me everytime Jorge posts a new saga (he needs to pay my therapy bills)
I'm so excited for this! It's coming out sooner than I expected, so that's awesome!
My favorite thing in Suffering is how Penelope's line "he will chase you high and low..." musically echoes Zeus' line in The Horse and the Infant when talking about the baby. Both are talking about a foe who'd do anything to end Odysseus and punish him for his past actions.
You got it instantly, Mortius! It took Casper until song 22 for him to figure it out
"We are a different beast now" is Odysseus' "I am the one who knocks/ You're locked in here with me" switch
I love watching your reaction, thoughts, and analysis, but gosh darn it without fail i get into a song and start singing then it's paused like "nooo my mojo" lol
Relisten to the Thunder Saga after watching this? Sure, I've listened to it like a hundred times already, what's one more :D
It’s a shame we can’t like the video more than once 🎉 love your reactions so much and Epic is so much fun to watch others experience.
One of the reasons Eurylochus is commonly given a giant anime sword in all the animatics is because the teaser short for Mutiny that was shot on a beach has the voice actors holding sticks to represent their swords and Eurylochus' Voice Actor has a noticeably bigger stick.
Also, that's not Cloud Strife's Buster Sword. That's the Dragonslayer Sword from Berserk which is the cultural origin of the modern version of "Character with Absurdly Giant Sword" trope seen in a lot of anime and manga.
"Why are you making him go to the worst places"
Fellow author here: What Jay is doing is completely responsible and normal. Us authors, we love to torture our children aka our characters. I present to you all the ✨author mindset✨
Crazy how the most upbeat and happy song of the musical so far (idk, knowing thunder bringer) is called "Suffering"
20:59, in the original tale Odysseus actually had the crew tie him to a mast of the ship then fill their own ears with beeswax cuz he wanted to hear the Siren songs. He begged and plead the whole time to be released so he could join the sirens but since the crew couldn't hear him they kept rowing and no one was sacrificed to the Sirens
Also, about cutting their tails? Yeah, they can't technically swim without them but also you know what they said : "we are the ones who feast now" ?
The top part of the siren is human, but the down part, the "tail"? Fish. Fair play for the table, that's the main reason to cut off tails and just throw bodies out as byproduct.
He got the siren thing way before Casper😂
Yay for visuals! I watched the live stream, but didn't immediately rewatch (rewind and replay visuals as I was watching) because I thought I could rewatch the whole thing later to analyze the visuals and lyrics better 😢
8:32 I say it could be Canon that Odysseus has some sort of trauma from that but also I think if anything he only would develop a fear of the water after like Get in the water has also occurred.
Geoff Castellucci will be premiering his new video...... Big Iron.... today, July 12th at noon est.
It is absolutely amazing.
I didn't know if you caught this but thought to mention that Penelope's violin isn't heard during suffering
I think that piano smash we keep hearing after worrisome news (having to go to the Underworld and the lair of Scylla) has become the “Oh, shit” motif.
"I would take the suffering from you."
I mean, she's not lying, she's here to end his misery in the worst way possible.
"Are they eating live sapient creatures now?" Partially, they likely eat the fishtails.
One thing I haven't seen anyone point out is that at towards the end of the song when the sirens tails are being cut off the crew sings the same melody from Remember Them when Odysseus and his crew stabbed the cyclops in the eye
Tiresias said "I can make him worse" by giving vague ass details about his future
And just an add-on. If I'm not wrong in the original Odyssey Odysseus ordered his men to fill their ears but tie him up to the mast because he wanted to hear the sirens, but it's impressive that Epic Odysseus is so badass that he can read a siren's lips so accurately he can trick her into thinking he's enchanted just scared
Something that upset me was that there was one person who kept repeatedly calling attention to the livestream being pulled off of UA-cam, and having done so after I said thank you to Jorge and the cast/crew making it so accessible to someone like me who has auditory processing issues (autism/adhd) and is experiencing unilateral deafness (left ear). The way the lyrics worked, the visual descriptions, and the animatics made my first and only Epic livestream incredibly accessible to me in a way media has *never* been.
This person was calling attention to the inaccessibility of the livestream because they couldn't watch due to working, and they couldn't come back afterwards because it was taken down so swiftly. They kept calling attention to it, and were very angry about not being able to watch, when many others who couldn't accepted that, sometimes life and timezones prevent us from doing so, it sucks, but they were still enjoying the songs on various streaming platforms without calling it inaccessible and unaccommodating to their personal life priorities etc.
I've been an editor and co-creator of content before. I understood why they would pull the streams, and I also understood that the streams are *always* unlisted immediately afterwards before I got into the livestream. I'm also homeless, but I'm a homeless college student and made certain I wouldn't be in class, attending to a work study, etc. during the livestream. (I then almost had a heart attack because something happened at the end of the final song at the same time as a firework went off for the Fourth of July. Timing lmao).
I wanted to say thank you, Mortius, for taking the time to help educate people about the reasons behind why the livestream was unlisted. I really wish people would stop uploading the stolen stream and content, because it not only hurts the Epic cast and crew, but it also hurts the creators of the animatics. It takes revenue and viewership away from the people who created these wonderful songs, visuals, and more...and it sucks. I understand why people want to upload it all, but I would much rather wait a month to let Jorge and everyone involved with Epic's production get their revenue and the peak/climax of the viewership and streams etc. before *asking* for the livestream to be unlisted at a later date.
Instead it feels like everything has been stolen and I'm seeing thousands of people turning to the stolen and uploaded (without consent) livestreams and that's tanking the numbers we were seeing for the album listings on various streaming platforms. They're already losing the money that helps them to produce this wonderful content because of that one company, they don't need help to lose even more.