The real secret to metal guitar tone [w/ WZRD BLD + Jeff Dunne]
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2017
- The key to great metal guitar tone in a mix? The bass guitar tone! Watch + learn as WZRD BLD and Jeff Dunne dial in an absolutely crushing and ridiculous bass tone on the latest EMMURE album. Want this session and the full mixing class? Get instant access ► nailthemix.com/emmure
NAIL THE MIX is an online mixing school created by Joey Sturgis, Joel Wanasek and Eyal Levi - the guys who produced bands like TDWP, Chelsea Grin, Blessthefall, Machine Head, Monuments, Miss May I, The Black Dahlia Murder, Reflections, Born Of Osiris, Asking Alexandria and dozens more of this generation's best metal bands.
Every month, NAIL THE MIX members get exclusive access to the REAL MULTI-TRACK SESSIONS from a REAL ALBUM, and a 6-8 hour live streaming class from the producer who mixed it. These aren't bogus covers played by some nobody off of UA-cam, these are the actual sessions by bands like Gojira, Decapitated, Chelsea Grin, Periphery, Papa Roach, Machine Head, A Day To Remember and State Champs - and NTM is the only place in the world you'll get access to them!
![Top Down Mixing [ft. Emmure, WZRD BLD + Jeff Dunne]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VCV7ckUOSMw/mqdefault.jpg)
I've never heard "sucking off" said so many times without laughter following it.
I figured he was just meaning to say “sucking out”, but then he did it again like 5 min later
I can not believe this video has shitty comments and downvotes. God damn, this bass tone is MASSIVE and these guys are just showing it to you and explaining it for free. What the hell is wrong with you? Amazing video URM, thank you very, very, very much!
Really? I use a similar technique but I think the bass on this song sounds super thin :-/ To each their own I suppose
Ass Kisser Much? Shit sounds like a bunch of fucking rubber bands!
Not a boomer.
@@scottdunn2178 You spell your last name wrong
@@jeffdunne9602 We left the "e" on the boat at Ellis Island...
No they aren't teaching you ANYTHING for free, these are commercials and promos for thier products that THEY get paid for and ALL information dealing with music is subjective. Nothing in these videos is ground breaking or honestly relevant anymore! And all these "magic" producers all have the same magic of making all bands sound the same !
With the bass track on solo I thought it sounded like rocks in a blender. But with the drums mixed it sounds much better. We normally just don’t plug in the bassist and let him think he is playing. Then have the guitarist retrack the bass parts in the am when the bass player is still sleeping.
The real secret to guitar tone is bass tone?
Russ Bradshaw yes.
Bass gives the guitar tone attack and low end
It took me years of trying to nail the perfect guitar tone before I realized the importance of the bass. I was just a solo guitar player in a humble home studio working on projects. Acquired trilian bass and superior drummer. Decided to write pass parts to a rhythm I was working on. Was instantly blown away by what the bass did for the guitar.
Bass parts*
Russ Bradshaw yep
TLDWー The real "secret" to metal guitar tone is a good bass tone that drives it。
I'm definitely going to try this, one of my friends used this method when re-mixing our single.
Thank you so much for this wonderful tip, what a timbre!
Thank you guys! You've made me realize how many mistake I've done so far :)
It makes sense with the bass though. If you listen to your favourite metal band and take the bass away from the mix, you really notice it. Take early Biffy Clark for example, their first album, Blackened Sky, has such a heavy guitar tone because of the bass, thus boosting the lower end to make it sound heavy.
I friggin love this free content
New viewer warning: They do not ever actually play the guitar tracks in this video. I can understand the concept here-the key to a great guitar tone is a great bass tone-but to never actually play the guitar tracks and let us hear how much your work on the bass has affected the guitars... that's kind of a fail. I can understand that's why people would be frustrated with this video.
as someone who has been mixing heavy music for 6+ years, this is exactly what it needs to be. It's essentially what no one talks about (barely anyone). If you want to hear the product, listen to the Emmure record.
Pleaae always show this difference also in final song mix.
Gonna try this tonight interesting approach
The production on this album is fucking killer.
Ok, I have sine doubts about this tone and it's use. From what I'm getting, this is supposed to be only used to glue guitars to the bass and make it sound super massive, right? Is it safe to say that this could only be used in songs where the bass is following the guitar almost note by note? And would this tone be an overkill for more melodic stuff like a power metal song or just anything that is not ultra brutal downtuned metal? Thanks for the video, keep up the good work!
João the bass tone used here is to tie the bass with a 9 string guitar tuned to (not %100 sure) A1, the bass is playing in unison because A0 is really hard to reproduce for our ears. I personally dont think that this is an all around tone to use, but in the context of this mix, it helps give the guitars more body while maintaining the low end separate from the actual guitars. A 9 string guitar can play said notes but it doesn't have the capabilities of all the overtones and massiveness that the thickness of a bass string can produce.
Power metal has bass lines that follow the rhythm chord changes. The trick of using bass to thicken guitars is even bigger in forms of metal that use that Marshal, tight and bright sound.
Great video you guys! Are all the bass tracks seperate performances and the same tracks?
Same take, copied and pasted 2 times over.
Please tell me which IR or IR combo you used for guitars. Emmure latest album songs are my reference tracks since its the best sounding core album on the planet. I need to know. My IR's sound very roomy. Please!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whenever I see this technique, people use duplicates of the bass track instead of sending pre-fader signals from a single track to separate tracks. Is that just because it's less setup, or are there other issues with sending to multiple tracks? Maybe plugin delay introducing phasing issues? Thanks!
In Cubase, you'd have to send the signal to a group bus. I personally don't do that because I try to keep large sessions as "readable" as possible, i.e. I know what is what (track, group, 2bus, etc.) at a glance. As far as I know, there's no technical reason for that but I'm sure someone else will correct me if there is.
Do you use the pod farm as a vst plug in? I can't understand how you can change the amps and the sounds on a actually record track.
They could be reamping after laying down the guitars. If your not familiar I wish you luck on your knowledge journey amigo. Have fun. Cheers. ua-cam.com/video/46lim9n3ZPM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/wRLgtqRDLwY/v-deo.html
Always record a direct signal also so you can tweak it after mane.
i kinda want to see a video of that bass line being recorded. it sounds like a sample to me it's so perfect. i couldn't play it either! great video guys! very unique bass tone.
Josh Travis is inhuman! Simple as that
name of the song that is being mixed?
Hi When I hear my Mix in stereo my guitars are ok but in mono my guitars sounds so awful
They are 100% to the left and the other one 100% to the right
Even with different guitar amp sims betwen them, inverting the phase with protools, or applyin phase cancellation on plugins, nothing works for me,
When I compare guitars in my mix, with professional mixes there is a deffinition and a presence that i cant reach.
my guitars sounds like they are in phase even when I use all the cancellation tricks i know
please help
it might just be that the tracks aren't really tight and so when putting them togheter in the same speaker makes them sound like a mess, it happens to me since im not a super tight player...
helpful ~
Any other videos coming from that session?
Yep!
False. The real secret to guitar tone is John Entwistle.
*thunderfingers intensifies*
Seriously though, great video. Nevermind the snobs and haters in the comments. Where are their platinum records then, hmm?
Yes because to know anything about music you have to have sold records otherwise you know nothing
I remember this dude from the Andy sneap forum
Any suggestions on getting a full, huge guitar tone and bass tone when your bass lines almost NEVER play what the guitar does? I'm a one-man band, and my guitars are tuned to drop Bb, but my bass is tuned to Bb standard, and i basically write a whole new set of riffs when i write bass lines AND second guitar parts, so i can't even rely on a lead guitar filling out a rhythm tone, each track does pretty damn different things compared to everything else, so my bass tone can't quite "fill out" the tone of my guitar riffs when the riffs between each instrument hardly ever meet in the same place. Thank for anyone's time and consideration who may respond :) cheers all!
Tune them the same, tune all the instruments the same, thats a good start
The real secret is playing raw and loud as possible without added distortion, taping 2 microphones to a manequin head over the ears of the manequin, and not compressing anything.
Couldn’t volume automation in post accomplish this as well? Like I understand separating the low and high end for that “clank” but, imo, this seems over complicated. Time to experiment!
is the cubase channel eq pre or post plugin chain?
Wanna know too! Fucking great video by the way.
Post plugin chain.
Thanks Jeff, It's kind of you to reply. Keep up the good work.
I thought Steven Colbert was sitting in the background the entire time lolol
The 1176 discussion... dudes the UAD is a powerhouse. The La2a is INSANE on the UAD. But the waves are great and have there place. Source dependent. But those UAD plugs go hard. Too bad you can use like 7.
jeff dunne from the Seymour Duncan Forums? Q: p
so the secret to guitars was Bass all along 🥸👌
Sounds so fucking good, but I think the player is at least 50% of that tone especially on the pick attack. I'm doing the exact same processing but I'm not getting the sound of the pick/ the tightness and its seemingly from the player's lack of strength in their hands when playing
You are 100% correct - the player is a HUGE part of it, and Josh is insanely good.
Uhhhhm... I get that the bass tone supports the guitar tone but... could you at least play a portion of the track WITH THE GUITARS turned on?!?! I waited to hear it in a FULL MIX context.
Same... with a title like that, I hoped they would show how adding the bass was creating that "wall" of guitar haha
Amp sims can be great, but what is the point of running such a specific classic rig (Ampeg, 8x10cab, 48 mic, 76 compressor) when the desired tone is so ratty and far away from what that rig is designed to do? If you're going for a big classic rock bass tone then absolutely, but it seems like the processing is taking away all the desirable elements that chain is meant to bring.
Because it works?
But i dont have an bass
That is not based off a HM-2
Its based off a metalzone pedal, Sounds nothing like a HM-2 Pedal lolz
i was gonna say... controls looked like metal zone as well. also the name of the emu.
I ended up scrolling the navigator to look for the end product which i didn't find in the end. should have started the video with the end product before embarking to a long talk....
sounds like robotic farts
more like secret to djent sound.
Sounds like Korn
"instead of making him actually play the part...eh fuck it." hahahaha. Like it's THAT hard to have the bassist do the actual performance.
I dunno, I've just kind of lost all enjoyment with the way metal music is mixed these days. Same handful of drum samples on very record, same handful of amp sims, amp settings, and tones. Where is the creativity? What happened to developing your own tone?
I know I probably sound like the old guy complaining about the way it used to be (I'm 36, so in the world of metal, I am the old guy haha) but seriously, where is the actual rebelling against the standard to make something new? You can turn on 5 metal albums from the 80s or 90s and essentially hear 5 different guitar tones on each one, the tones of the albums were part of the experience of listening to them for me.
Maybe I'm wrong, any of you younger listeners got some suggestions for and old guy like me to check out, I'd LOVE to hear them. I grew up on metal, cut my teeth as a musician in metal bands and learning the riffs and solos of the players back then, but somewhere around 2007ish it started becoming harder and harder to find a metal band that didn't sound like every other metal band out there. Maybe something with dynamics, an actual drum tone that isn't just the same group of samples on every record, a vibe by not being perfect to the click all the time. I'm not being snarky here, I'm really asking. Who should I check out?
I feel you, my man. Obviously, it's nice how much more accessible making and producing music has become, but the downside of all this information of how to create tones and what equipment to use, how to write songs and whatnot really made so much music so uninteresting to me.
Luckily for us both, there is bands like Inculter, Hellripper or Succumb that give me at least that same fresh vibe and feel some 80s and 90s bands give me. There is also a lot going on in Death Metal at the moment with bringing unpolished and raw tone back, I'm loving it. If you are in that fancy art student mood you could also check out bands along the lines of Imperial Triumphant.
@@distortedliquified8169 Hey, thanks for the suggestions! I'll check them out
If you want even more proof bass tone is the key to a heavy guitar tone no matter what the tuning is, listen to a Kurt Ballou mix. The bass is so grindy and fat that is half the guitar tone.
So basically scoop the mids on the bass and it'll make your guitar sound better \m/
Stay Metal Ray alot more to it than that lol
60 bucks, my ass
Thats not a metal guitar, thats computer screen. Here is how a real metal guitar sounds. Forward to 24:00 for Metal Guitar sound: ua-cam.com/video/fkgr1BCinko/v-deo.html
So...where's the guitars? This is all bass techniques.
I don't mean any disrespect, as I know this is just one approach. But I really hate the fact that in modern metal we don't see traditional bass tones anymore. A bass that actually sounds like a bass. The most organic natural sounding bass tones we see nowadays are in fretless bass players, and that's it.
Modern metal (not every band though) should be called "Plastic or Digital Metal". There is no life in this mixes/productions. Compare it to an older stuff like Mettalica - Black Album or latest KSE - Atonement. Believe me, these guys wouldn't be able to get that tonnes at all. Everything would be squashed, dry, empty and digital. But kids like it. It is some kind of new digital era. Sad but true.
Emmure isnt great but their bass tone rules here
Oderus urungus: metal of today is all start stoppy bullshit, there's no flow
Pod Farm?
Hmmmm
The best bass tones i know are still great players through well-recorded bass amps without all the parrallel split track woo-hah.
This is in a recording context, but in a live situation, I would agree with you :)
I feel like this topic of "the secret to the guitar tone _actually_ comes from the bass tone" has been done to death.
Everyone and their grandma splits their bass into separate parts. This is far from new information for 99% of viewers.
Mr Cock, thanks for your comment. Isn't it amazing how spoiled we are in 2017 that we are now complaining about free videos where top pros show their mixing techniques?? What a time to be alive!
Anyway, you're right that this isn't a new technique, but I think you will agree that they have some unique details on it that you won't find in a lot of other tutorials on the subject (for example, editing the "fuzz" layer such that it only kicks in in certain parts of the arrangement) and that this is a really sick tone.
Its incredible how much people take for granted their own knowledge. No, it's not new knowledge for a lot of /engineers/. It is, however, very interesting to see how each engineer goes about mixing and APPLYING the split track method. If you think that you can just dismiss this stuff because it follows a common method, you aren't very good at learning. But I'd also like to point out that it is new information to a considerable amount of beginners. There are always new people coming in to learn how to mix.
It has been done to death because it's true and it works and yet a LOT of beginners still don't get it, trying to find dat perfect guitar tone while disregarding the bass. Been there myself - I still remember my amazement while first hearing Emmure's Children of Cybertron, I tried to get that "guitar tone" for weeks with no success of course, only much later would I learn the punch comes mainly from kick+bass, so I wish I'd seen this video back then ;)
What a stupid comment. Sure i'm aware of this technique, but it all depends on genre you are mixing. To see this on metal bass is very interesting in my opinion.
No dogs in this fight....
The info may be common... but to actually put this together right? NOWHERE NEAR 99% of viewers ability to complete it right. I spent countless hours/days interning with several jack-holes just to get a morsel of this information. It's open shop-talk. Let it roll. Even if it's a large or small tid-bit of info....it's still info. If it doesn't phase or affect your superior knowledge....then hop back on your cloud and float away. Don't discourage others or the message/experience they receive by trying to degrade the content that the creator put in for this video. You clicked they video, they didn't click you.
so much talk and woowoo trickery, black magic and rig presets and consoles and it sounds like a complete garbage when you actually hear it haha . I think the trends in metal should change towards something a lot more organic.
Be the change you want to see :3
kimseniorb Damn URM slapping back with that fire!
kimseniorb agreed so much
wasn't trying to be an ass, just expressed an opinion. I feel everything is overfried and slammed with compression these days, I hear that slate VMR(and the likes) saturation everywhere. They use SD drums which are already compressed, and compress them even further. I want to puke when I hear this stuff. On the other hand, when listening to a dry drum session(UNPROCESSED ROOM MICS!) in a great big room - it feels like I'm flying to the sky and through the clouds to Jesus' loving embrace.
Damn man it’s the complete opposite for me haha. I hear a dry take of live drums with tons of reverb and I just think blech. The new Monuments song though has wicked drums that’re most natural and just reinforced with some samples. You also have to go by the market and what people want their end product to sound like too :) If it’s your own stuff or someone that wants it more organic, by all means man, go au naturale! \m/
Emmure, line six, HM-2....I’M OUT!!!
All this is doing is furthering the sterilization of music. There's no differentiation between notes. What next on this bass track? Beat detection? Absolutely NO ONE should practice this.....
I agree with you mate but no one here will understand you because they are 14 years old and have no idea that these days DIGITAL metal music is shit as hell. Today snare drums sound like my 20$ Casio keyboard and nobody can see (hear) it!!! Sad! But luckily we still have a great metal productions like KSE, FFDP, Parkway Drive etc etc... \m/
Sorry Man but seriously ... That sounds like shit .
Ah, so this is why modern metal sounds sterile and grating...
Nobody is telling you that you have to use this technique. It’s just an option which you are free to use or not use. If you prefer a more organic sound then you should definitely go for it!
This is awful and also if you dont want hate change the title to what te video actually is. The real secret to metal BASS guitar tone
The tone work is impressive, the actual bass playing is awful