Just a small suggestion before people comment: Perhaps buy one of the Lives I talk about and read it first. And know that St Paisios is one of MANY holy figures. The point is that results speak… They speak louder than assertions and theological claims. They show where God is at work in creating people who look, act, and speak like the Apostles. It’s work to read a book first, but it’s worthwhile and holy work. Just a suggestion.
The divine Matrix ✨️ Blue pill or Red pill? 🐉Jesus is the encoded fallen angel! Isaiah 14:12-15 / Ezekiel 28:12-17 🚫 We consumed from the forbidden tree when we ate of his body & drank of his blood🍷 🥖 Genesis 2 🚫 This symbolic Cannibalistic ritual & witchcraft is forbidden to the God of Israel! Leviticus 7:27 / Leviticus 19:26 🚫 Jesus created his own covenant & told us to eat his flesh, drink his blood, pray in his name & *not STRAIGHT to the God of Israel😬 Ezekiel 45:22 /John 6:53-58 / Psalm 16:4. 🚫 Jesus was rebuked & anguished after his last supper covenant & was forsakften on the cross & casted down as a result of his own sin. Matthew 26:36-46 / Zechariah 13:7 🚫 Jesus said he is the only way & that's a lie! 🐍Just learn from all of Gods Righteous people.... Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, all the Profits, Isreal & more! Psalm 32 ☦️ Jesus said he was the erected bronze snake in the wilderness of Exodus. John 3:14-15 🚫 The churches & Islam are praying to dead idols & false gods. Deuteronomy 4:28 🚫 Christians & Islam believers are dangerous & destructive for a lack of knowledge & have persecuted & pierced Gods Holy people for thousands of years.😪Matthew 10:34 / Hosea 4:6 / Psalm 83 ☦️ The bronze snake became an idol that was eventually destroyed..2 Kings 18:4 Checkmate ♟️Zechariah 13:7 / Deuteronomy 8:2 /Exodus 7:16 Hear📣...O Israel / believers, our God YHWH is one☝️Deuteronomy 6:4-9 🕊From the prayer of Moses Exodus 32:15-34, & the Hopi nation, the miracle of the white buffalo, & the spirit of Elijah calling from the wilderness, remember the 10 Love commands & repent of your wicked ways! Exodus 8:1- Malachi 3 Isaiah 1:18 / Exodus 20:1-7 ❤️1. Thou shalt have NO other gods before YHWH ❤️2. Thou shalt NOT make unto thee any graven images. ❤️3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. ❤️4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ❤️5. Honor thy father and thy mother. ❤️6. Thou shalt not murder ❤️7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. ❤️8. Thou shalt not steal. ❤️9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. ❤️10. Thou shalt not covet. Give jesus & his churches what is theirs & give the Creator Father YHWH what is His & let's make Israel & the world amazing again!...Psalms 51✌️
It is entirely fair to judge a belief system based on its fruits, but to suggest that sainthood is the sole standard by which we should use to judge one another seems dishonest. It is not a habit of protestants to chronicle the lives of one another in order that their good deeds may be forever woven into the tapestry of church history.
@@HolyFool-i1o What kind of rage bait it this? First of all, where did your cannon come from, and who canonized it? It goes back to the Orthodox Catholic Church... not whatever you're trying to deceive people with..
@frpaul honestly what else can we judge a tree except from its fruits, a healthy tree will produce fruits, and this is a question that sadly most churches must just lift their hands 🤷♂️ . the total lack of mystical understanding and true belief in the miracles, most Christians dont even know what a saint is.
Your videos with 10MinuteBibleHour were the first encounter i had with Orthodoxy. I am now faithfully attending and have been baptized. Thank you for everything you do!
@ in my private time I always prayed to understand and have the theology of the apostles. I found Orthodoxy by online research of the early church. Roman catholicisms ecumenism is very evident so I feel Orthodoxy is the true church passed through apostlolic succession. The monarchical trinity model, ever virgin mary and the process of theosis have been things I understood while reading the scriptures, but had no idea any church held to these views until I found Orthodoxy.
As a Fundamental Baptist I think the whole "protestants destroyed in 1 sentence" or "orthodoxy crushed in 60 seconds" videos are some of the most damaging and fruitless efforts out there. There are lots of Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox that are easily a great example that I can find for encouragement and a good example to motivate me to be better. There are also plenty of all 3 that could demonstrate less than ideal things, too. Most of the rhetorical debate only leads to temptations of arrogance, anger, etc. At the end of the day Jesus Christ is what I should keep my life pointed at. God Bless all my brothers and sister in Christ.
You need prayer for God to open your blind eyes and to get you out of the 100% false, manmade, Godless abomination you have been snared into. Repent, and run away from this false, manmade, antigod, antibible, antichrist religion (cult)!
I was on Mt Athos recently and met a grace filled Elder. You could feel the grace when he entered the room, and when he embraced you or simply touched your shoulder, everything felt at peace. He radiated love and I felt he knew my heart as he discussed and gave guidance on many things pertinent to me, without me saying a word. I was really struggling spiritually prior to this. I don't know how to explain what happened with words, but I knew he was praying for me as he spoke and I felt as though there was this... presence of love and divine Grace which entered my heart, it was like he sent me a kind of spiritual care package to encourage me. There are still such people on Athos in 2024
I'm aware of how climate change has made these UFO stories our only hope of avoiding extinction within a decade. Immaculate Constellation Document "The official disclosure of the existence of Non-Human Intelligences (NHIs) and their presence on Earth is a pivotal moment in human history." Does anything prove faith worthy of respect more than finding prophets & cherubim in the Yellow Pages? President Carter, informed he lacked a need to know, was left weeping from the UFO brief. He was a man of faith; Earth is owned by machines.
Withought these men and women I would simply want to die. God I hope I give birth as in with my wife to give life to children, I will make two of my children each sex , dedicated to God. Cause I cannot reach God without the help of my children I believe. Adam wasn't as holy as Enoch and Elijah. But Adam is to be respected by all humans so is eve. Anyone which curses their father and mother is cursed by their own tounges stupidity.
@@westingoode3105this is exactly right . Protestants like to say they are in a “Bible believing church” .. We Orthodox are in the “Bible writing church” 😊
This is not an argument. If you want to place your faith in men, there are a whole bunch of Protestants that make a big deal about the manifestation of the gifts of the spirit among their own, and while some might be questionable, there have been snake-handlers, people with visions, people who heal and all the rest in astounding numbers among Protestants, and I know for a fact at least some of these are real, though I would be hesitant to tie the miracles to the people; these are gifts from God. I have seen God heal people, as a Protestant, at the behest of Protestant prayers; He had a conversation with my mother and healed her. She said the room seemed to divide in two, as if a thick black line separated her from my father and sister, and God asked her: "what can I do for you my child?", and after initially feeling His peace and thinking she would like to go and be with Him, she ended up saying she did not want to leave my father alone yet, and where previously she had been told that her cancer had been 'going crazy', the next time the doctor was baffled and kept asking aloud if perhaps he had made a mistake the last time, but there was no mistake. The other was recently with a friend who gave his crippling pain that left him unable to move to God, and was immediately relieved of that pain, and he could stand up and go about his day. I have been telling him on and off about God for years and after this event he came to me and told me he wants to be baptised. Now you may not believe me, but there are many Protestants (and Catholics) with similar stories. We Protestants, for the most part at least, fully accept that there are true Christians among the EO church. The issue comes then when you try to tell us that we are not Christians because we are not a part of your church, or because we do not venerate icons, or pray to the saints, and so on and so forth. Clearly, God has been at work in the lives of Protestants and Eastern Orthodox, and I'm sure He has been at work in the lives of Roman Catholics and Ethiopian Orthodox and Egyptian Coptics and many more. Where there is true faith in Christ, even if there is some confusion and error on certain points, I am sure God has been active and worked through His followers. He is a merciful God. This then brings us back to those questions that you have not given an argument for. I think there is a large and wonderful community of Christians spread out among the world. I am sure there are things that we can all learn from each other. I would like to see us all come together, realise we are Christians, hash out error where we might find it and expunge it, and all follow Christ as best we can. Sadly, the EOs and RCs make this difficult when they deny others or worse, condemn them. This needs to be addressed, and there have been some Protestants doing good work to address it; but this video stands in the way of bringing Christians together, and it does so without even presenting an actual argument.
Excellent post Haggis. In the end all debate about legitimacy or authority within Christianity comes back to the evidence of the Holy Spirit. Not in a "signs and wonders" way, but because all authority was given to Christ and the Holy Spirit ministers that authority. To begin answering the video one who I have personally met is Brother Yun "the heavenly man" from China. I have yet to meet an Orthodox Christian who already knew of him before I brought him up. But while we can read his two books, most of his life and work is held in the lives of other Christians, not on the pages of a book. God determines who the true Saints are.
Well said. The fact remains that Orthodoxy and Catholicism have primary doctrine that are not Biblically-based, which is why Protestants rejected them in the first place.
Amen and amen. The Son of Man has authority to draw all men to Himself, men and women from "every people, nation, and tongue". He fished for Gentiles and pagans and grafted them into the true vine and He continues to do so. Some of the holiest followers of Jesus I have known have come from "low church" traditions, which emphasize the perspicuity and authority of Scripture, the Lordship of Jesus, and living holy lives in the power of the Holy Spirit. One only has to look at the Holy Spirit's work in their lives to know they hear His voice, are of His fold, and are sealed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit by the grace provided by Christ's atoning work. I see unregenerate (non-fruit bearing) protestants as well as unregenerate RCs, EOs, AOs, etc. And yet, I recognize that amongst all of these traditions there are followers of Christ whom are within His collective bride, the church. Would that all these traditions look outside themselves and see the God is at work outside themselves.
God can work wherever he wants, this is despite the errors though, just because a group in history departed from christisnity and taught falsehoods about the identity of christ doesnt mean god doesnt work in the midst of the deviations these individuals created and the remnants of these groups hundreds of years later with all the protestant sects etc, maybe the originators of these things would be judged differently though compared to the simple guy who has a spiritual experience and goes to the only church in town which could be a protestant denomination and knows no better etc, the fact remsins though that we were given a very particular thing, christ incarnated in time and space here, not over there, and the church is this, not that, people can depart from it, change it, alter it, abandon it, but it still remains the way we were given it and recieved it, only the fullness of everything is in the orthodox church, illumination, theosis, mystical union etc is only possible here, outside the church it isnt possible, doesnt mean god doest work there despite the errors, he wants us to come to what he gave us though
One of the most frustrating things that I experience with my protestant friends is their constant complaining that protestant churches do not offer fellowship and accountability. And simultaneously their complete rejection of orthodoxy, which 100% offers what they say they are lacking. I have to just stop and pray for them. I want to shake them awake and say, “ you are begging for a spiritual hospital and every time I show you the sign pointing to the spiritual hospital you start telling me that I am wrong….that you need your library to convert to a hospital instead.” Sigh. Pray for the whole world.
'Protestant' speaking here...and I LOVE the Orthodox church! Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for the information about Saint Paisios...I will definitely read up on him.
As a new convert from Protestantism, I left because I was in danger of losing my faith, and because I saw in Orthodoxy the way to be fully Christian. As a side note, my priest spent 10 years on Mt Athos as a monk. I have never met a Christian like him. There are times when I feel like I’m in the presence of Christ. I think this is something I noticed about Orthodoxy from the time I encountered it, and I don’t see it anywhere else. Even in Fr Paul, at a low level, I notice occasionally a grace there that I don’t see in Catholics or Protestants. Not all Orthodox certainly, and not necessarily often, it’s just that I don’t see it anywhere else.
This gives me such faith in the Orthodox Church. Other Christian traditions can produce good, loving, and charitable people. But nothing like St. Paisios and other saints that we have witnessed in recent memory.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Here’s the key portion: "Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with."
I've meet Protestants who had a Holy awe about them. I wasn't a Christian when I met some of them. Their presence, that is God's presence, terrified me. When I became a follower of Jesus, I began to understand what was happening to me when I was around them.
How do you know that was God's presence and not something else? The Holiness from Saint Piasios was like meeting someone who existed in paradise. The world seemed to breath around him and he never wanted people to be terrified. God doesn't want to make you feel terror.
@@OctagonalSquare Demons enjoy terrifying people, not God. God is an all-consuming fire that people will have a negative response to. But God doesn't wish to terrify you. He's beyond gentle and kind. If you want a good picture of who the Father is read the parable of the Prodigal Son.
@@anothercat1300how do you know it wasn’t?? This is my only real issue with the Orthodox Church. “Everyone within orthodoxy is amazing. No one outside orthodoxy is amazing.”
1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Here’s the key portion: "Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with."
"but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with." This is one of the most contested verses of scripture in the NT. Many disagree about what Paul is referring to by "complete." My ESV bible renders the greek word τελειος (teleios) as "perfect." But it can also be rendered complete. This is the same word that Christ uses in Matthew 5:48 when he says "you must be perfect (teleios) as your heavenly Father is perfect." With that in mind, I as well as many other continuationists interpret this to mean that when Christ returns for his bride, the church, prophesy and tongues and knowledge will no longer matter since these are all gifts of the spirit-before and after 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is talking about spiritual gifts-given to strengthen and build up the body of Christ. I would support this interpretation with 1 Corinthians 13:12 which says "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I KNOW IN PART; then I SHALL KNOW FULLY, even as I have been fully known." This is the foremost apostle of the apostolic age saying even now he sees in a mirror dimly, but THEN (at the resurrection) we will all see face to face. "See" who? God. No more will we need signs and wonders, and visions, and prophecies to show us the glory of God. We will see God face to face, and be forever in his presence. Who else knows you "fully", my friend, but God? He says we will "know fully", but do you believe that full knowledge will come in this lifetime? Will anyone "fully" know and understand God while only seeing him through revelation of scripture, through prophesies, through tongues and spiritual gifts? That's a stretch exegetically, if you ask me. I find it much more plausible to believe he's talking about heaven, not earth. Can't you see what he's saying? He's saying once we are brought into his presence forever, the love that we receive from the Father never ends, but there will be no need for prophecy and knowledge and tongues; those are just signs of what is to come! As the prophet Jeremiah said: "And NO LONGER shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”" -31:34 And so said Christ: "Now this is ETERNAL LIFE: that THEY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." - John 17:3 This is what Paul is talking about, while juxtaposing the death of partial knowledge with the everlasting power of God's love. Does that make sense?
Father Truebenbach, as a cradle Eastern Orthodox Christian I have followed your UA-cam channel for over a year now. You have been a pure blessing to our Church. Glory to Christ for fathers like you in this world of ours. Your blessings, father.
Now it's time for you to listen to the words of the Apostles, who said you can only claim to know God (which is much more than just being a member of a religion) if you are 100% sure you are going to Heaven when you die: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:13 Read John 5:24 for yourself to find out how (trusting in God the Son ALONE to save you, who is a Person and who is not a religion/church: 1 Timothy 2:5).
@ but you see that Bible verse (or any Bible verse) was written in the Greek and put in the Bible you are quoting by the very church fathers, father Truebenbach is speaking to you about. Of course they trust Christ and Christ alone. Why else would they record all of it in the Bible for you and me and the entire world? Why else would they sacrifice their own lives throughout the centuries without any gain, but for you to read it? Don’t you think you should listen and find out how and why they did that for you, literally for the love of Christ?! Hmm? It might help actually.
Honestly I feel like this argument can be used against every church that isn't the Orthodox Church. To my surprise there is a growing number of orthodox people who are seeing the phrases and singing that the Oriental Church have the Holiness of our church. And I feel like it's a betrayal cuz I would never say such a thing because there is no church other than the Orthodox Church that creates such amazing saintly figures.
@@LaustibiChriste33 look who is judging! Have you seen the Tree of Life? The Lord God and Savior Eastern Orthodox Jesus Christ is the Path, Truth and Life! He is the head of His body Eastern Orthodox Church. He has one body, not many bodies.
@LaustibiChriste33 Its faulty reasoning, why would you need to watch an orgy to know it is wrong? Likewise why would the person have to go to heretical churches to know it is wrong? I'm a protestant (for now) and you're reasoning only sounds nice because you take the attitude of ecumenism or the attitude of Gomez. You don't need to experience something to know it is wrong. I have to make such a strong analogy otherwise it'll derail the argument for awhile over not judging people (which the Bible doesn't say that, it says work on yourself first so you may help other rightly and you will be measured on how you judge so don't be a hypocrite.)
@LaustibiChriste33 Its faulty reasoning, why would you need to watch an orgy to know it is wrong? Likewise why would the person have to go to heretical churches to know it is wrong? I'm a protestant (for now) and you're reasoning only sounds nice because you take the attitude of ecumenism or the attitude of Gomez. You don't need to experience something to know it is wrong.
The story of St. Paisios is what is pulling me towards joining our Orthodox church in Kansas City. The Orthodox church is an unbroken chain of true spiritual awakening that goes all the way back to Christ himself. Its so wild too that i started typing this reply before he said Where is your St.Paisios?
I wish the story of the unbroken chain of Apostolic succession from the 1st century was enough for everyone to be convinced… seems pretty straightforward to me! The lives of the Saint’s is the icing on the cake. Why people argue or try to refute it with ignorance is mind boggling!!!
"Show me your Saint Paisios" are the 5 words, in case anyone is impatient. Basically he liked this guy and the stories about him that he's read, so begome Ortho. Never mind that this is also the argument of the Muslims, who point to their perfect prophet. Or the Mormons, or various Christian groups who like their favorite figure of their denomination. Idk, I'm more of the camp that theology is a better metric than measuring whose favorite legendary figures against one another. So, not that I wish to speak for protestants, but a good 4-word response might be "show me your Bible" and we can see together what Christ and the apostles taugh without having to speculate.
Were the bodies of Muhammad and Joseph Smith incorruptible? If no, then Muslims and Mormons can't compare them to our Saints. Incorruptible bodies allow for relics, and relics are a by-product of incarnational Theology! It shows that the Faith one speaks of is real (and not just of the mind only...AKA ...what you prefer). We don't deny the Power of God for the power of God is incarnational. It's real in the here and now! This is why his 5 words matter!
If you consider the statement "Show me your Saint Paisios" as an endorsement of the concept of "Christian Perfection" rather than as "I liked this guy and the stories about him...", it actually shows the Orthodox disagreement with the Protestant worldview quite well. As an evangelical, it is actually a brilliant way to highlight the difference with Rome. This is because, besides the Protestant teaching of concupiscence *as* the presence of sin (or, that the presence of sin remains within the body even after his guilt is wiped out, imputed onto Christ - Romans 7:21-25, Galatians 5:17), there is actually no other significant point of *doctrine* that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Cranmer all articulate in the *exact same way* that isn't a simply a general 'Christian point of agreement' with Rome as well (obviously there are other things they agree on, but those were more concerned with their approach to the practice, piety and politics of Rome - things which change, unlike formally-professed dogma). It is also the only Protestant doctrine, which, over the centuries, has remained utterly unaltered in its normative understanding - every other unifying concept in Protestantism, be it Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Deo Gloria, Solus Christus - all of them differ greatly in how they are interpreted, not to mention how differently they are treated in the common day than in ages past (an example with Sola Scriptura's diverse interpretations is how Francis Turretin, Zwingli, Luther and Calvin all explicitly refer to Tradition to 'affirm' the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, despite there being prooftexts against it in his mind. Another example is how some Anglicans, early ones, so not just 'Anglo Catholics', will hold to 'Solus Christus' yet also say that their 'priests' are acting 'in persona Christi'). By pointing to a man's life as an example, the Orthodox demonstrate that they believe in "Christian Perfection", or that the presence of sin is indeed eradicated from his body in regeneration. Such a thing no Protestant can earnestly affirm. Now, does simply stating that you believe in "Christian Perfection" actually prove the position? No. But it is a good response nonetheless because it shows where the soul of the issue is.
@@lemmingkingyt5618 It's essentially two groups talking past one another. He is convinced of what he believes because of an example he has for Christian Perfection, but doesn't even mention any Biblical argument for his belief. A protestant (hopefully) will argue the Biblical merit of their position but not believing in Christian Perfection, will not consider an example even relevant.
@@ChristianCombatives It's also important to mention that a Protestant cannot affirm Christian Perfection. Otherwise, justification can not be purely forensic (and also be ontological) - this is Catholicism, or, on the other hand we must affirm Pelagianism.
As a Protestant, I love and respect my brethren in the Orthodox church. I have agreements and disagreements in matters of doctrine, but I believe we are still siblings in Christ. I will say, the Protestant response to these five words is also very simple: "we don't need one."
Great video, I’m currently somewhat new to orthodoxy. I’ve spent my entire life a protestant, so a lot of things are new to me. I’ve been wondering, which saint to start learning about first, but I guess this settles it. I closed your video to look him up so I wouldn’t forget and really even in the pictures of him i can feel a kindness and humility coming through my phone screen maybe I’m just crazy though lol
You're not crazy. That is, quite honestly, how I and so many others feel when one studies a Saint like St. Paisios. He radiates warmth and love. Extremely Christ-like.
As a Protestant, I’ve enjoyed learning about brothers with different persuasions who are rooted in Christ. Ive grown to love orthodoxy for what I know of it. Church history is rich. Christ is King. Ecclesiology and doctrine matter. Charitable disagreements are worth wrestling through with brothers who think differently. Love is the chief motive and our faith in Christ requires that we demonstrate we love one another without unnecessary division. That said- God spoke and divided light from darkness. We have to mark and avoid, call it for what it is- that some are just simply not Christian’s, some are weak and need mercy, some are harsh and need mercy, and no matter what- not a single one of us deserve salvation in Christ and yet belief in Christ has brought us into this family. Thank you for contending for the faith and uploading your persuasion with biblical reference and church history. Grace to you☦️
What a gracious and irenic response. I agree. As an evangelical and now Anglican, I am so grateful for the great Traditions of the Church. So much to learn from, glean, and consider. Christ’s disciples are known by the love they have for one another, despite our difference (and some are not insignificant). Blessings.
@@HusGoose a Protestant- yes. How much? A ton . It’s why I’m searching so much.. not sure how you expect Id answer that( as in a number scale?) EO meaning Eastern Orthodox? I’m still working through what the theological clear differences are. At the time of this writing, I’m a confessional reformed baptist and see some clear distinctions of course. That said, I don’t understand why some of us (universally speaking of the Christian church) try to lord over the persuasions of others. I wasn’t always reformed theologically, so to think this is my last stop would be irresponsible in my opinion. Taking the time to learn about the rest of the body, what makes us brothers(or not) and being charitable from an informed position makes disagreements clear and correction loving. Otherwise we become tribal and act as if people were baptized into anything other than Christ. Where do you stand brother?
@@Joeymuggz I understand your quest for knowledge and truth. I am reformed Baptist as well because it’s biblical. If it weren’t we shouldn’t be. We should never graduate from this position because the scripture is fixed. And there is absolutely ecumenical brotherhood we can have with Presbyterians, basic non-demons Calvary chapel, conservative Methodists Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. because we agree on the gospel and general front stage presuppositions (though we may disagree on backstage predestination and the effectual nature of baptism). As a reformed people we believe in always reforming back to original intent. Meaning, all church history is important to study but ultimately doesn’t matter if it conflicts with what the apostles taught. Church history is full of apostasy and heresy at many times almost impacting the entire church. This happened before and after the EO even existed. Again, We reform to original intent. So as a reformed person, what is the true gospel? The one Paul taught and said if anyone preached a gospel other than the one I preached the them be accursed? The EO church does not believe that gospel. In EO You are justified by works throughout your life as merited Grace is extended to you. This process is called Theosis and is semi-Arian. It is Anti-Ephesians. The reason the situation is serious is the EOs have an overlay dogma, similar to Roman Catholicism that evolved over time. Through people they label saints, like Paisios highlighted in this video, They venerate and regard what they say as on par with the text. In fact, If it comes down to the text vs a “saint” they side with the saint. And say, look how good he sounds as we saw here. Their view of scripture is not scripture alone, but that the ecclesia alone can interpret scripture. Therefore it’s ecclesia alone and scripture when its suits us. So If you read the plain meaning of the text as we do in Ephesians 1 and 2 they will deny it in practice and direct you to their works-based concept of Theosis. Then they proceed to argue like a Roman Catholic about meritorious grace. If you are not familiar with theosis I would encourage you to read their own texts. In the matter. Also read Athanasius, whom we agree with to see where they take his quotes and create a dogma around it. Look into their veneration of the saints, note the prayers to the dead etc. but again most importantly ask an EO how can one be saved. It will become immediately clear, whether you are speaking with a priest or the laity you are speaking with a modern Pharisee, for the exact same reason. Not someone who has heard the gospel. They need to be loved and evangelized, not encouraged.
@ totally hear you brother. One of the reasons I continue to search is to understand how they got the conclusion they are at and how they reason. Hearing their( their meaning anyone of a different persuasion) perspective from them and hearing how it’s defended in debates or through church history help me examine what I think I believe. That said, being that we believe in it being by grace alone and in the sovereignty of God- God Himself is sovereign over wack theology. It’s not because of what we know that we are saved. It’s because of who He is. Being reformed and learning more about church history and governance has been extremely helpful in understanding how people come to the persuasions they get to. What’s your take on Assyrian, EO etc in regards to tradition? Beyond what could be deemed legalistic(let’s be honest, Calvinists just like the rest can fall into legalism too) and beyond ecclesiology, do you think they hold accurate church traditions from the early church?
The problem is that western Protestants are in such a bubble, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of them have to idea who St Paisios is and don't even really understand what a saint is.
I am Protestant, I am thankful that I have the freedom to be Protestant and that you have the freedom to be Orthodox. Rather then fight about why I'm more biblical then you I choose to just let you be Orthodox. Let people read their bibles and if God gives discernment let people discern. I do not follow dead Saints, I follow the living God. Any true teacher of Christ will not try to join you to themselves, but rather make sure you are joined to Christ. Jesus said my sheep hear MY Voice. We are at the time when the Wheat and the Tares have matured and it about to be harvested. Better make sure that the fruit your bearing is wheat. You don't want to hear those terrifying words "depart from me I never knew you".
Another example of this denomination exalting people they deem saints to make it look as if protestants are out here doing nothing. My family was raised Baptist as was I and I think we've all moved into non-denominational territory. My uncle turned his life around and gave himself to Jesus. Ended up making a ton of money selling insurance. Then he decided to quit his lucrative career so that he could build a church and drive a school bus. In the country, drugs had become a problem and his church took in addicts and put them through rehab. His church grew and so did his ministry. My uncle gave a lot of money away over the years too, yet he never went under. Never left his ministry or stifled his generosity even when his brother told him to go back to the insurance gig. I've seen Gods blessings in his life and in our family's life. Protestants don't need to record every single notable person per church or time period because we have no need to exalt or worship people, or pray to anyone except Jesus who is the one mediator between man and God. These religious leaders are so tone deaf that they can't recognize how much they sound like ignorant Pharisees as opposed to saints. Not all protestants are like Joel Olsteen. Not all of us attend a mega church. Plenty of us do take weekly comunion and take our faith very seriously as well as our doctrine.
@TheZMom_Emmelia All we need to do is repent and believe. True belief will produce good fruit, works, and a peace that surpasses all understanding. His yolk is easy and his burden is light. The Christian life can be difficult if we allow it to be difficult, but there's grace for all of us who keep the faith, make an effort to obey him, and endure til the very end.
@MR-dl8js You're welcome. I don't know why I even bother watching these videos. They pop up in my feed, and I get curious even though I already have an idea where it's going. There's a lot of ignorance among church goers/leaders no matter what denomination it is. I grew up in Kentucky. The Catholieve that I was exposed to their didn't even remotely resemble Jesus or Christianity. I've lived in Missouri for the past 4ish years and the Catholics here are a little different in a better way. They're a little more sincere, but they still believe that they are the only "true church". Evangelicals have a big share of their own crazies, but it's like these people see Kenneth Copeland, Joel Olsteen, Stephen Furtick, etc, and assume that we're all charismatics or mega churches, or maybe we go to some small snake handling church where we speak in tongues. Before I started meeting real Catholics I thought they all thought the Pope was the pinnacle of righteous authority and he was infallible. Thank God many Catholics have the common sense to know that isn't true. I don't know how big of a deal it is, maybe I'm just too sensitive. I hear stuff like this and it feels like a personal attack to people I know who have risked everything to further the kingdom of God. I study the scripture and I'm not necessarily even a sola scriptura kind of guy. But at the same time if I read something that's antithetical to the Bible I will reject it immediately. That's why I'm in my non-denom camp.
Thank you for this practical answer. I've been examining Orthodoxy after years of struggling to find logical answers to problems in Protestantism (eg., sola fide not agreeing with St. James).
@@thomasthellamas9886 Yes. The Calvinist ones suggest the "P" in TULIP is shown in James as Perseverance+Preservation, which seems to me to sidestep the problem of sola fide, not to mention that Luther wanted St. James's epistle removed from his Canon.
@@coppernicklaus245 Imo, the reformed commentaries on James harmonize well with the relationship between faith and works. And as much as I dislike Luther, I think historians are pretty clear and honest that his remarks on James do not mean he did not believe in its inspiration. That’s just me tho. And I’m young and ignorant of a lot. Still hearing
@thomasthellamas9886 Fair enough. Presbyterians (PCA anyway) get pretty close to Orthodox positions, and the ministers I've talked to (when I've attended their churches) have agreed that faith without works is dead, so at least they're not in the easy-believism non-denom camp.
Father, maybe you can make a video with a list of book recommendations on different topics (which also deals with certain criticisms people bring up), and maybe point people to other edifying Orthodox channels so that people might learn more
As a Greek, I'm ashamed that I haven't been to the Holy Mountain of Athos to visit an Elder. These people are not only seriously learned, but filled to the brim with the Grace of our Lord. I have to one day, rather much sooner than later. I'm only a few hours away from the capital of Athens where I live. But thank God there's a monastery right next to my house.
Some Protestants in the chat are very open to your words and suggestions and then there’s some that have closed minds. But the fact they are watching your fabulous, informative video says everything you need to know. God Bless you Fr Paul.
@@tranquilenvironments I googled: Nearly 30% of all Catholic saints actually possessed some paranormal powers or had psychic experiences! That’s the fascinating conclusion of former top parapsychologist Rhea White, who passed away in 2007. The researcher studied the lives of 2,532 Catholic saints and found that 676 of them - an incredible 27% - had some sort of psychic experiences. Her study revealed that 310 saints actually performed miracles and 55 had ESP. At least 31 saints were clairvoyants and 24 had telepathic experiences, 20 could read minds and 32 predicted their own deaths. Others had the uncanny power to be in two places at the same time, while some had the eerie ability to speak and understand languages they’d never heard before.
Whoever is out there , If your core believes ( and doctrines ) are according to the Bible itself , You are my brother or sister in Christ Regardless your denomination or method of worship
Unfortunately that means Catholics nor Orthodoxists are your brothers/sisters in Christ, as they do not follow doctrine according the Bible, but according to their own manmade customs.
@@networknomad5600the entire book of Leviticus is God the Father instructing humanity on worship through His “Angel”, God the Word (Jesus Christ). The Old Testament is not suddenly useless because of the New Testament, in fact you would think that sola scriptura would lead people to respect the prophecy of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ our Lord fulfills the prophecies of the old testament, but he does not eliminate them. I would argue that even the Holy Scriptures are “man made traditions,” since they were written by the apostles and prophets of the church, and compiled by the church. Our Lord founded a church, not a bible, and He says “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Peter writes, “hold fast to the traditions you were taught.” The line of succession from the apostles until now is of utmost importance, because The Lord entrusted his church to them, and thus without the church hierarchy, you are not a part of the church our most holy Lord founded. Of course, you are still Loved by the Lord, and His grace is still with you, wether or not you are Orthodox, but the fact remains that these traditions are neither man made, nor meaningless, and in fact it is the other denominations that have fallen away.
@@networknomad5600 not making statues or drawings doesn't refer to only God, Jesus, Mary and Saints, but also to people and animals. This fucking means that even sculptures of the David or Darwins's diary are heretic. If i draw a bird on my notebook, i'm sinning. Also, idk if you know, but making statues is NOT prohibited, but instead God told us to make them! Didn't God told Moses to build a copper snake, that whoever got bit will be saved by its vision? Didn't God told Israel to build Cherubs on the Ark, on it's veil, and on the tent that hosted it? Aren't they celestial beings? See? We are indeed following what God said. God did NOT prohibited the making nor the cult of Icons. Amen. God bless you. Glory to Christ.
Protestant here to leave my 5 words! I don’t argue brotherly love! Walk your Faith in Christ! I LOVE my Orthodox brothers and sisters and I learn so much from them. My “St. Paisios” is One Greater! He is Jesus Christ! My grandpa was an amazing Christian man that gave me an “icon” if you will, to see with my eyes to base my life off of which has given me motivation to give my life to God. I would NEVER disrespect your icons, Saints. I’m thankful they have led many to Christ. I’ve been inwardly transformed and know many that are not “of the world” any longer. I am and know many that are “foreigners in the land”. I have seen miracles and have even had miracles worked by the Holy Spirit through my own hands with witnesses, COMPLETELY for edification and not of my own doing. Like the Orthodox say, “we know where God is, we don’t know where He isn’t” I’m here to say the same! With all love and respect!
@ I would LOVE to and plan to but the youth programs found outside the Orthodox Church, at least in my area, are far superior. I have the wherewithal to seek the fullness of Christ on my own but it’s important to me that my very young children are brought up enjoying going to church on Sundays. It’s hard to make a 3 year old stand still and quiet for 2 hours and I don’t want to be so hard on her that she no longer wants to go to church.
@@MrMann-gt1eh 3 things. 1. Orthodoxy does not say this. You may be able to find someone who says they're orthodox who will say it. But this is not a position of the Orthodox Church. 2. Church is not for Sundays. 3. 3 year olds should be in church and there's no need to stand still. There's a remarkable amount of pride in everything you're saying. Sadly you can't see it. How do I know. I'm a pride filled man who lacks humility. I know exactly what it looks and sounds like. The fact that you cannot go into the history of your fractured secular church and find the saints father is talking about should lead you to questions not answers. I say this with the Brotherly Love you speak of. Just agreeing with you, just ignoring your egregious error would not be love of any sort. In fact that would be a form of modern moral relativism that does not exist in Christ's Church. May God grant you the grace to overcome your excuses and find your way home.
I shivered when i heard your 5-word response. Yes. And most of us in our hearts have probably had an unspoken thought very similar to that. Of course it will fall on some ears that are deaf, but those who actually hear your sentence and this video will pay at least some attention. We will easily see here who refuses to hear. The struggles that the monk Paisios went through to become our dear Saint Paisios are challenges for any of us. We will read comments from those who don't intend to even try. Sad, but true. Thank you, Fr. Paul. Thank you, dear St. Paisios and all the saints who rejoice with you. [L/Mary on my husband's phone.]
Protestant here. I love the online discourse that has sprung up more fervently in recent years, as it gives a lot of food for thought and meditation. I have deeply considered orthodoxy for myself, and find that there are a lot of amazing things to praise but also a few integral points that bring the whole structure down (in my own arrogant eyes, of course). That said, I truly believe (and I get to as a protestant) that my friends in orthodoxy are as within the body of Christ as my friends in other traditions. I'm grateful for the dialog, because it's made me certain that no church can save me, but only Yeshua the Messiah.
Hmmm… I was born again 30 years ago. I am a Bible believer and a Jesus follower. The examples this gentleman gave as a type of “proof is in the pudding” Are the same experiences I had at my grandmother’s Pentecostal church when I was newly saved. A special guest there had a “word of knowledge“ for many people there including me. Just like you described about the saint in this video. So if that is one of your main proofs that orthodoxy is true, it’s a bit of a failure. The difference between the “average” Bible believing church Entity and the orthodox church is that we don’t feel that we need to elevate people that we see following Christ. That is why there aren’t books about people who have been crowned as Saints by an organization. However, over my Christian life, I have met such people. The woman that was crucial and me coming to Christ, that God used amazingly when I first met her it was like looking in the face of love. And I remember thinking, as a sinner, wow, this woman loves me and she doesn’t even know me. And if she did know me, she certainly wouldn’t love me because I am quite wretched. But no book has been written about her and yet her funeral was overflowing with people whom God had touched through her throughout her long life. So your 5-word “proof” statement for orthodoxy Falls very short. The Bible itself, the very words of God, calls All born again believers Saints and priest and Kings. We don’t need man stamp of approval because we have God stamp of approval because the complete work of the Lord Jesus Christ shedding his blood on the cross and then applying that payment to my was complete and thorough and enough. “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2 Corinthians 5:21
" I am a Bible believer and a Jesus follower." Your bible makes numerous contradicting and hypocritical claims my friend. How do you differentiate between what is truthful from what is fantasy? Thanks and good luck.
@@samlee5016 I think you story about your godly friend is lively. No need to have semantic word games… or to get exercised over vocabulary choices. We call godly people Saints to distinguish them from ordinary ‘saints’ like us..,like you we know they are different. It’s a matter of honoring them like I see you honor your friend. And like you probably ado, we think of them and try to use their lives to model our own. They aren’t given a stamp of approval (at least in Orthodoxy) so much as lived as the living person they are. We are not all priests in the way you use it. Yes, we have priestly roles in that we are called to live godly lives and spread the gospel. But ordained priests, like pastors, have certain obligations and are sanctified by the church to fulfill them. Presiding over sacraments for one thing…communion, marriage, death, confession. Not just any old church member does those things unless no priest/pastor is available.
@@marjoriezimmerman3969 " a significant part of the Bible is poetry, which by nature is not and not intended to be literally true." I'd say 99 percent of what the bible claims is false. So how do you differentiate between what is the poetry and what isn't? What method do you recommend that I use my dear? If you can't isn't it best to read the bible as ALL poetry? Thanks.
I was baptized 2 weeks ago in our old town of Nitra, becaoming orthodox wasnt my plan, it was plan of our Lord. Love u all brothers and sisters ☦️ Sláva Bohu
I came to this video (as a Reformed Presbyterian preacher) with genuine interest to hear a ranking member of the EO Church give a compelling argument, but what I hear is basically this: "Look at this pious man." And my five-word rejoinder is this: "Sir, we would see Jesus" (Jn. 12:21).
So you don't have anyone who is inspiring and apostolic-like. That's kind of telling, and its why you're losing a lot of people (like me) to the traditional Churches. Meh, but feel free to keep living in denial. You'll keep hemorrhaging followers. People are starving for the Sacred, the Protestant churches can't give that to them as long as coming to channels like this one and obtusely contradicting those who are trying to give you a message is all you are capable of doing.
You can see and experience Him in the face of these Saints who radiate His love & wisdom. That’s the whole point. Honestly, as a former Protestant, I encountered Jesus as a child in a dream and as I matured and met Him in the Scriptures and in my conscience, I knew the interpretive answers from my Protestant world and churches about church history and the meaning of the Scriptures were incoherent, and I was hard pressed to find any Christian who moved in the kind of grace and power of Jesus and His Apostles. That changed when I encountered Orthodoxy.
@@katydidd6321 So long as men die, only Christ can carry his Church. There are many Protestant churches which do not faithfully preach the Gospel who hemorrhage members to the EO and Catholic churches, and there are many who, like the masses in John 6, abandon Jesus for the seeming "sacred" of worldly buildings, robes, and glitter. That tells nothing but than what Scripture says in Ecclesiastes 7:29, "God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes." Of course they won't find the sacred in fog machines and worship bands, no more than it can be found in the glint and gaud of cathedrals. The power is in the Gospel of Christ: "For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18). Isn't a bad argument worth contradicting? You seem to have no issue contradicting mine. Mine was not obtuse. Or is it obtuse to insist on the Apostle Paul's admonition to the Corinthians, "For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?" (1 Corinthians 3:4). And we might add to this list: "I follow Paisios." Is this not the spirit of partiality that James warned against? I would desire that the EO increase in members so long as they preach the Gospel faithfully. Do you gloat over professing Christian churches hemorrhaging followers? I even came to this video not to be contradictory, but to listen and hear--but all I hear is the praise of man. But Christ's Gospel advances. I won't fault your vitriol; I'm a sinner too. You might even listen to one of my sermons on my channel and see if I am such an enemy to the Gospel as you seem to suggest in the tenor of your words.
@@katydidd6321I know many people who are saintly within the Reformed church, I don't see the need to trumpet them. They know who they are. They are closer to Christ than any prideful Eastern hetrodox individual.
Although we Anglo-Catholics are not by definition "Protestant", our bishop is a Benedictine Monk and our new priest is a Benedictine, 3rd order. I'm a Franciscan.
Father, thank you so much for this. A large part of why I am now a catechumen is the real, palpable, and utterly transformative presence of Christ I experienced within an Orthodox Christian. An imperfect, ordinary, fairly new one at that. But it was indescribable. Heavenly. Weird, in the best way. After many long conversations I converted, or am in the process thereof. But that first meeting, it was divine.
The lack of healthy skepticism in the orthodox faith is a huge barrier to entry. I’ve been in rooms where everyone was convinced they were speaking in tongues of angels. B just because they thought it was real, didn’t make it theologically sound, empirically true, or even helpful to the spiritual formation of the fellowship. Hagiography is a very old practice, but it doesn’t make it an honest one. We live in a world full of mentalists, illusionists and even perhaps demonic power masquerading as miracles. Be skeptical. Most stories of modern miracles are non-falsifiable or don’t pass the smell test. Biblically, this is calling for “testing the spirits” to see if it’s from God. A good heuristic would be to ask: how is this apocryphal story, practice, or tradition related to the gospel? How does it help me experience the good news of redemption and union with Christ and share that good news with others?
@@thomasthellamas9886 Eastern Orthodoxy is the true Church of Christ...Oriental Orthodoxy split as monophysites in the 5th century Assyrian the same,Coptic the same...Latin catholicism even more thye same..Protestants denominations even even more...Old believers are schismatics...
@@icxcnika2037 If you read my comment closely, you’ll notice I didn’t say anything about the word Orthodox in the other schematics names, having any value. That should be clear because 2 the groups I named don’t have the word “Orthodox” in their name. And the mere fact that I know of and can name some of those groups means I’m not entirely ignorant. But yeah. You missed my point and wrote an irrelevant paragraph in response to the point you missed lol
We have to be very careful not to get into a "we are better than you" attitude. Being a former Orthodox, and a Protestant, constant division is not of God. This is what Satan desires. I have no doubt there have been Holy men and woman in the Orthodox, RC, and Protestant faiths. To compare one is more Holy than another sets up division more than Unity. Unity is of God. I know a number of incredible Holy men who have brought millions and millions to Christ with their ministry, healing the sick and raising people from the dead. Holy Spirit filled men and women. Yes they were not called as canonized Saints but were truly amazing workers for Christ.They would have been Saints most likely if they were Orthodox. But I know this type of comparison provides more pride and less humility. Fwiw.
I'm a protestant, a Lutheran, myself. However, I find it ironic and honestly kind of stupid for a protestant to complain about division in the Church. I mean, we are the reason the Church isn't united. Technically the Roman Catholics, I guess, but I think you get my point. If we actually didn't want divisions in the Church, we would be Orthodox and try to end Protestantism.
Being in different churches is fine. You can identify yourself with a certain church and still know your salvation is faith alone. Or you could do what the disciples did and simply call yourself a Christian or follower of Christ. The actual issue is the narrow path, knowing that you're saved by faith alone. If you don't know that, then it's useless to identify yourself with any church. You have to first go solely by scripture alone, then once you know for certainty what God has revealed to you and you've armed yourself with scripture, feel free to join any church. Now spiritually, you can win battles since you'll know if anyone tries to get you to believe anything outside of faith is your salvation, you can immediately know it's demonic and a one way ticket to hell and a subversion off of the narrow road. That's the actual issue. Not a division of churches themselves.
@@JS_Guitar09 The Lutheran RC split is not by any means at all the first denominational split. If you knew church history, you would know that we (Lutherans) already tried to achieve communion with the EO church, and they said no. You would also know that we are also a direct descendant of the original ancient church, so why should it be on us to change? We should work together with other churches in areas we agree, and where we don't we can debate or agree to disagree.
Thank you Father, i am Orthodox Christian,from Africa and is so great to teach them the truth. Similar mre shoud be communicated in every means for protestants.
Father, I just want to share my brief testimony with you! Back in June, I came across the video of the Protestant pastor (apologizes I forget his name) interviewing you. You were amazing, you answered so many questions I had as a non-denominational Christian. I was so grateful and amazed and excited that I sent the video to my husband to also watch before I’d even finished it. Upon finishing the video, I read through the description box and discovered your church was in the Salt Lake valley! This may not seem too big a deal, especially since I live in Texas. However, I was leaving in a short couple of days to be visiting family in Utah. If this wasn’t a “sign” from the Lord, I don’t know what is! I then visited your church with my husband and we were overwhelmed with so many wonderful feelings, that being relief that we immediately felt that orthodoxy was home. We now attend a church near us back home and we are finally catechumen! 🙏🏻❤️
@daltonms They find you less interesting than tic tok, so be more interesting. Develop your speech and arguments, and make better use of tone and volume.
I really enjoyed this video and thank you for sharing it! My question as a member of one of the OG protestant groups watching this is: You ask for a representative to show that our denomination is "the one true church" around 15:58. But many protestants (like me) don't think any "denomination" is the one true church. We are all fallen here on earth and constantly have inward battles on doctrine/practice/etc. Would the 5-word response be the same to that belief? We would also believe that St. Paisios was absolutely a true servant of God, sharing the love of Christ clearly through the stories you shared. Could we say Luther was a true servant of God? Translating the bible into the local language for God's people to have the ability to read and hear his Word in their own tongue? (There are a lot of examples too in protestant believers but I'm just pulling an obvi familiar one.) I know ppl might reply and go off on tangents that really don't pertain to what I'm asking, (it is the comment section of a religious video lol) but I'd just thought I write this to share as a comment. Very much appreciate your videos, Fr. Paul!
The Bible says to not bow down to or serve images, icons and men the way you would toward God. Why does the Orthodox Church insist upon elevating Mary and the "saints" to such high places? You say you do not worship them but the Bible does not even use the term 'worship', it say do not serve. What does serve mean, though? Well, I , and many others, would say that all the thing the Orthodox Church does it serving these men and their likenesses. This is not really even a debate, as it is clearly wrong according to the Bible. However, Orthodox tradition (which seems to trump the Bible rather than answering to it) say all of these rituals are not only good but necessary. So, I guess it is a debate, I mean, maybe I am wrong? I don't know? It's just that I read the Scriptures and then look at what the Orthodox do and it does not line up. The Bible does not teach Orthodoxy, only the Orthodox Church teaches Orthodoxy. I was open minded to Orthodoxy until I realized just how much it deviated from God's Word. But what gets me the most, is the fact that an Orthodox person does not even fully believe that he is going to heaven. We God says believe in the Son and you will be saved- he means it. We can trust God's promises implicitly. The faithful should believe with 100% certainty that he will be with God one day in the future. That is what faith is- trusting fully in the Lord. Of course there will be times of doubt- that is normal. Though, that is not what the Orthodox do, is it? The Orthodox merely hopes that by his activity in the Church he will be deemed worthy. There is a wishing but not a knowing. True faith is knowing. The true Church is anywhere two or more believers, saints, gather because Jesus is with them. The Church is not a building or a denomination, such as Orthodox. This is what God has revealed to me through his Holy Word and his living saints, our fellow believers- other Christians. I do not mean to be mean but Orthodox Christianity is the illusion of spirituality. It all looks so very religious does it not? But what is behind that facade? Tradition? Those traditions were all written by men who had no authority. Lean on Scripture, ignore the Imperial Byzantine propaganda. To anyone who reads this, don't be mad, I am just following the convictions the Lord has place upon my heart and in my mind.
Agreed. I also don't get why they have all these images in their churches. Exodus 20 clearly states that we shouldn't create images of "anything in heaven"...they idolise saints and it's just wrong honestly.
@@Tee-lady The images add to the mystique. The gilded icon, portraits, outfits, incense- I have heard them say they are emulating the ancient Israelites or scenes from the book of Revelation. But, the ceremonies of the Israelites were part of the Law, which has been fulfilled and as for Revelation, well that is clearly prophesy and not instructions for behavior. They claim that these practices have been done since the apostles, but that is demonstrably false as the early church was believers meeting in each other's houses without gawdy, gold everywhere. As you can see I have a lot to say. I recognize that the Orthodox have an amount of faith. I hope to kindle that faith by the grace of God. I want them to put away the worldly, man-made, unbiblical practices. I am ready to talk to anyone who will listen. I want others to love and fear the Lord, giving him his due as describe in his Holy Scripture. The Orthodox mock us protestants and non-denominational types often enough. Obviously, there are many false teachers in different denominations but we simply follow the Bible as we live by every word the proceeds from the mouth of God. We work out out faith with fear and trembling as well as love. We do not waste our efforts on worshipping, venerating, men and Mary. We, the faithful, are all saints. We can all be teachers as the Word is powerful and the Holy Spirit is with us. I want them, the Orthodox, to share the confidence that we have in Jesus's propitiation. He paid for our sins so we can have complete certainty that we will be with him in heaven. Faith is the root and good works are the fruit of the tree that represents us. Sorry I am talking your ear off, I guess I get carried away but I find it difficult to describe these idea in fewer words. Thank you for commenting and supporting me, sister in Christ Jesus our King.
The one true Church of Christ is filled with only saints, who are those written in the book of life (born again). There is no perfect denomination, although there are those that adhere to the Word of God (which is good) and those that promote heresies (not). Test the fruits. I actually find that a lot of Orthodox people do not promote much of the venerating as Catholics do, but they still do! If you steal $1, you are still a thief, even if it were more.
@@WillowLivingStreamsQA I see what you mean about some not doing things as much as others but still being just as guilty. Though not exactly the same, James 2:10 comes to mind. Anyways, what you said is very true and a great point. Also, all of us, God's children that is, are saints. 😇
First, thank you, Father, for all your videos. They are a true blessing and an invaluable resource. I deeply appreciate the time and effort you invest in sharing the richness of Orthodoxy with others. I write this as a convert to Orthodoxy from evangelical Protestantism (I was welcomed into the Church in 2021). When I was an inquirer, a priest said something very similar to the crux of your video: "You can tell that Orthodoxy is true because the Church has produced saints in every age and continues to do so. Where are the Protestant saints?" While I am passionately Orthodox and have an icon of St. Paisios on my wall, this argument rang hollow with me at the time and, to some extent, still does. I say this not as a criticism of Orthodoxy, but as an observation about the argument itself. Protestants don’t think of “saints” in the same way that Orthodox Christians do. They don’t formally classify people as saints, nor do they have a process of canonization. However, this does not mean that Protestantism lacks individuals who have lived extraordinary lives of Christlikeness. In fact, many Protestants are deeply inspired by figures such as Gladys Aylward, William Carey, Adoniram Judson, George Müller, David Livingstone, Hudson Taylor, Lottie Moon, C.T. Studd, Corrie ten Boom, Richard Wurmbrand, and Brother Andrew. While their lives may not meet the Orthodox understanding of holiness or sanctity, they have profoundly impacted the world for Christ, often in ways that involve miraculous events. This is not to equate these individuals with saints like St. Paisios, but to highlight that dismissing the contributions of Protestant heroes of the faith may come across as a lack of understanding or respect. For someone exploring Orthodoxy, this approach can feel like a blind spot, as it did for me when I first encountered it. A second point to consider is the Protestant emphasis on evangelism. While Orthodoxy excels in preserving the fullness of the faith, Protestantism has been deeply committed to spreading the Gospel, often at great personal cost. The growth of the underground church in places like China (estimated at 300 million Christians) and Iraq is largely the result of Protestant missionary efforts. Organizations like "Voice of the Martyrs" regularly document the sacrifices of Protestant Christians who risk and often lose their lives for their faith. From a Protestant perspective, this raises a natural question: “If Orthodoxy is the one true Church, why isn’t it leading the charge in evangelizing the world?” This tension can make the “Orthodoxy produces saints” argument less compelling to someone with a Protestant background. For many, the examples of Protestants giving their lives in service to the Gospel are just as moving as the lives of Orthodox saints. I believe there is a better approach to this conversation. Instead of comparing and potentially diminishing Protestant heroes of the faith, we could emphasize the unique treasures of Orthodoxy, such as the unbroken tradition, the depth of its theology, and the beauty of its liturgical life. These are what drew me to the Church, even when certain arguments didn’t resonate. I share this perspective with humility and gratitude for your work, Father. I hope my words are received in the spirit they are intended: not as a quarrel, but as a constructive reflection from someone who has walked this path.
For anyone doubting or outright challenging the icons in man, consider this. What was the default state of man and what did Christ work to return to us? If you say “endowed with the Holy Spirit,” and “reformed in the perfect image of God,” then bingo! Jesus tells His apostles that they will become “complete” or perfect when completely obedient to His will. The Trinity makes zero sense if this hasn’t happened with saints. The Holy Spirit, without a perfected host, becomes an intangible force that periodically spurs people on and then retreats to quietude. If the church is truly comprised of saints who have been remade in God’s image (conformed to the image of Christ anyone?), then Protestantism is truly lacking and ineffective. I searched for so long for someone to regard as Christ in accordance with the early believers, and found none. My FIRST encounter with Orthodoxy resulted in such. My priest knows and cares for His flock by name, only asks for “tithes” in assisting the needy, and never rushes his sheep out of his presence for fear of missing Sunday brunch. He is a many who prays for himself and others during and after every service. Go and make disciples, anyone? Greater things than these will you do, anyone? Be holy for I am holy, anyone?
Father, thank you for posting! While I understand that there are fruits of the Holy Spirit in people who commit to a God-seeking life, I personally have concerns regarding certain Orthodox teachings and practices, mainly: 1) The 2nd Council of Nicaea anathemization of those who refuse to perform proskynesis (affectionately venerate) icons. I don't see why such practices are made mandatory under threat of anathema. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 2) The soteriological agency assigned to Mary in Orthodox hymnography (and in St Gregory Palamas' writings). She is portrayed as someone who is to intercede to her Son for us, as though Christ is unwilling to forgive us while she is more merciful. There are more exaltations which I cannot name specifically, which grant her great soteriological agency. Of course you must tend to your parish, but generally more content and discussions on these topics would go a long way. Other topics like the mysteries, monasticism, the saints etc in my view are less drastic than the above (for lack of a better word). Thanks again for your time and prayers Father!
The reason we venerate icons is to a form of worship with our bodies. We can’t touch Christ at the moment, but we can kiss his icon as a young child kissed a picture of his father. To show love, affection, obedience, etc. If you reject that you’re saying veneration of icons is wrong which means worship of Christ with our bodies and matter He created is immoral. Which just destroys the salvific work of Christ. Christ didn’t just save us but all creation from death.
@@Damascene749 Thanks for answering! I'm not saying it's wrong (as long as we direct our worship towards God), I'm saying that there is no foundation for non-iconodules (not iconoclasts) to be anathematized. We have to be careful not to worship matter - be it sanctified, it's still separate from God. I'm not saying that iconodules (Orthodox, Catholics etc) do this, just that you said "worship of Christ and matter He created". I assume you don't worship matter and perhaps you meant venerate. Going a bit off topic of your reply, but I'd like to bring up again my concern of the (hyper)veneration of the Theotokos ending up being more than duila (veneration). I looked at the akathyst of the Theotokos on the OCA website. She is often attributed (soteriological) powers that should be attributed to God only. This happens quite a lot suggesting it goes beyond just poetry but is earnestly meant. She is called restoration of Adam, remover of the stain of sin, cause of deification (ikos 1), salvation of my sould (ikos 3) etc. There is also the account of St. Gregory Palamas that I am yet to study. Even if all this is aimed towards hyperveneration or poetic honoring of Virgin Mary, it can lead towards worship, given all the god-like powers she is attributed. I suppose one can say that God gave her these powers (which is a sepparate discussion), but then where does that leave Christ if she is the salvation etc.? Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these topics, I did look at the akathyst quite hastefully. I am also in the middle of reading pastor Joshua Schooping's book on Orthodoxy, where these issues are brought up. I can't find a way to refute what he said so far. Thanks again for your time and engagement!
Sorry, my words were imprecise, I meant to say we worship Christ, with our bodies and *with*matter. Not that we worship the matter itself, how can we it’s a creature, but creation can be sanctified in the case of Christs garments which we would direct proper veneration towards it by kissing it or kneeling in front of it as a representative that we recognize Grace is present in His garments (which itself is biblical) As far as the Theotokos case is concerned, she has a special closeness to Christ as His own mother to make intercession. Honouring Christ Mother translates to honouring Him because when we speak of her, it’s always in the context of her repentance, virginity etc, she is not worshipped as God. But she is higher than all creation and after Christ (God) we call upon her name so that she can bestow the gifts of grace she received from her Son. Take a healing for example, the Saint who heals does the work of healing himself but the source of the healing and grace is Christ. Similarly, she can save us by interceding but the source of Salvation is Christ. I hope that helps. May the Holy Trinity help me as to not say anything outside of the faith!
And btw. In Orthodoxy, we become God’s children by grace and essentially this means we become god by participation (not by essence). Even Christ rebukes the Pharisee when they doubt this doctrine he quotes the psalms which call the children of God “sons of God”. We become higher than the angels and principalities, higher than the seraphim and cherubim, that is a much greater claim than one any Protestants make (from my experience)
This is a great video, and I had no idea about any of this. There’s always bad eggs, disbelief, and stubbornness in any denomination, but when someone humbles and allows themselves to be used by God, you get these awesome stories of God working through people to ultimately save lost sinners. Great view into your experience and theology.
Fascinating! Particularly that you so confidently assert that "there's no way you're gonna have someone like [St Paisios]" in protestant circles. For me, the litmus test of Christian maturity has ALWAYS been the fruit of our lives. A good tree produces good fruit, simple as that. A life that produces fruit (characer-fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5) and/or maturing of the believers around you (Eph 4) and/or non-believers coming to faith and/or miracles being done by God in your life (End of Acts 4 or 1. cor 4)) is the guide by which we judge those who are worth following/listening to. As for the specific challenge you present, I could give you: -John G. Lake (led a Christian home of healing in Spokane, WA which saw thousands of medically documented healings, and lived by faith as a missionary in South Africa for many years, not fearing Ebola or any disease) -Rees Howells (was led through the Scriptures together with the Holy Spirit, turned the tides of WW2 through prayers, and bore the troubles of hundreds of people in intercession until they had their breakthrough) -George Müller (led an orphanage from an old age and saw untold financial miracles without ever sharing his need with anyone but God, after all this he was healed by God from crippling seasickness to travel the world preaching the Good News) All these have audiobooks out for free on youtube, or downloadable transcripts of preaching or biographies out on the web. I could also suggest getting the book "God's Generals" which chronicles several more "protestant saints", if you will, from the last couple centuries. If you would like contemporary saints, I would show you to: -Heidi and Rolland Baker who travelled to Mozambique with little money, no church support to see if the Sermon on the Mount was enough. Their work has saved hundreds of thousands of orphans from the streets, seen dead-raisings, multiplication of food, supernatural language acquisition, just like what we read in the New Testament! -Dan Mohler who lives a humble, simple life as a pastor and preacher but has all the hallmarks and stories of the kind of life St. Paisios lives. He came to know the lord well into his adult years and repented from being an adulterer and fake christian to falling in love with Jesus and the truth of Scripture. -Several people I know personally as well! Norwegians, Americans, Indians, who are preaching the gospel, living holy lives, seeing miracles on a weekly basis, loving the Scriptures and invading this dark world with the Light of Jesus! I'm not surprised there are EO saints. I am surprised you make these claims while apparently having researched so little :) Peace be with you!
I have had a similar argument against Protestantism. If your faith is the fullness of the faith, where are your saints? We don't judge a gym because it has some overweight people inside, but we might laud one that produces a champion body builder.
Wow. Billy Graham. John Bunyan. Charles Spurgeon. Difference is they don't call them saints. Paul in the Bible calls all believers saints, not just the big dogs. Try listening to the other side of this argument.
This isn’t really a good argument, as God can work through anything to bring souls to Himself. Further, we don’t know that the conversions are real. How many people on this planet claim to be Christian and yet are obviously not?
The 5-Word response was terrible. I would give a one word response, heresy. You have very poor exegesis. (1 Cor 3) For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? This sounds exactly like the same sin you are positing, "show me your _______ (fill in the blank with a persons name). Secondly, all God's people are saints. Paul wrote to living saints in Ephesus, Corinth, and the other churches. Saints are those that are born again by the sovereign regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Secondly, yes the Apostles were a special group of people. (Eph 2:19-20) "so then you are no longer strangers and aliens,[d] but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone" The church was built upon Christ who is the rock, the cornerstone (not Peter), and the words the Apostles spoke (Scripture) are the foundation of the church. There can be no others like them, because the foundation has already been built. If others were or are equal to them, then their words would need to be put into the Bible as Scripture. The Canon in closed. Finally, the greatest miracle is not things like Jesus turning water to wine or the like, but rather turning sinners into saints (again not a special class of Christians). All Christians are saints, but not all that profess Christ are Christians (Matt 7:21-23). The "Orthodox" lean heavily on the church fathers, but never acknowledge many church fathers held to sola scriptura, and sola fide. Orthodoxy may very very traditional, but they are not very biblical.
Very well said. What I have seen is that when given all of these proofs through scriptura, Orthodox will simply claim sola scriptura is false, and their history will override any argument made. They claim to be the ones who assembled the Bible we have today and to have the only authority to interpret it. Simply put, Orthodox believers cannot bring themselves to be humble enough to have an honest conversation about these things, because you know, they are better than everyone else of course. "My guy is better....according to...us!".
@@easytiger35 The problem that the Orthodox and Catholics have is that they are unable to separate the Church from church-like organizations, just lumping them all together as "Protestant". Some churches teach truth, consistent with the Word and substantively compatible with small-o orthodoxy. Others, like Northpoint or Saddleback, are merely church-like organizations, who lead the lost further astray.
@@easytiger35 There is no "sola scriptura". Words _always_ require an interpreter, especially when they have been translated multiple times and preserved for thousands of years. What better interpreter than a church that has kept to its traditions?
I will start my argument with an ad hominem: you seem very prideful and arrogant. In addition, your claims are weak. No one said anybody is "following" a particular saint more than they would be following Jesus. There are no churches that I know of that have a particular saint who is used to replace Jesus. Saints are brothers and ancestors whose examples we can use to deal with the ever-changing world around us. Your point that everybody is a saint may be valid, but it's pointless semantics and whataboutism. If everybody indeed is a saint, then why even have a priest? You know just as well as I do that everybody adheres to the word in different capacities. People themselves will admit that. We have eyes to see. For you to come in and say "everybody is the same in the end" is really just a bad faith pseudo-argument aimed at crushing dissent instead of allowing for discourse. Let's use the word "church fathers" instead. Are you happy now? The canon may be closed but the church is a living congregation, not a dead pile of dust. In case you haven't noticed, the world isn't the same as it was 2000 years ago. For this reason alone we need to interpret the canon, sometimes in significant ways. The Bible isn't unequivocal in various areas of human life, even if you personally think so - as you seem to believe you have the absolute authority to interpret. Fine. Be a priest then, start a new church, if you haven't already. Maybe you are an authority - I don't know. Though I do wonder how you are going to justify teaching anybody else as "all Christians are saints anyway". Fr. Truebenbach literally explaining the teaching "know them by their fruits" and you then calling the Orthodox unbiblical is just the cherry on top.
Yeah just because you're ignorant of the Protestant saints who have died and bled and suffered for Christ doesn't actually mean they don't exist, "Father".
Anyone willing to die for Christ is noticed by Him. That's not being disputed. The Life of Saint Piasios is an example of the kind of fruit God produces in someone's life through the Church He's provided for people.
@ Protestants have that as well, we just don’t make idols out of them and relentlessly study their lives. Again, your failure to see their fruits and righteous deeds don’t constitute a failure on our part
@@ExpiditionWild I was protestant for most of my life. They don't produce saints. They have great scholars and speakers. they're even kind and beautiful all the same! I also admire the sincerity and intensity of my friends. But that doesn't mean what they believe is true. A saint is something truly unique to the Church. They're people who's likeness has been restored the most out of the rest of us. God uses them to encourage people. The Church celebrates it's heroes. Idolatry is treating a created thing as absolute. Our relationship with the saints has absolutely nothing to do with idol worship. We don't see saints as absolute authority above God let alone paint and wood. The Church has thoroughly processed this issue. Please read about it. Back during the great iconoclasm of the 8th century people were either rejecting the icon or they were worshipping them as idols. The Church had a council addressing both problems. We're not ignorant about idolatry. I wish more people understood this which is why I mention it. Protestants read the Bible that speak of saints and their lives. The Church being the living faith still produces those people.
@ This is serious calumny against Protestants. You don’t have a monopoly on being Christian. Protestants have died by the thousands for their faith. You look that up, don’t tell me about iconoclasm while you spit on Protestants
@@ExpiditionWild "We just don't make Idols out of them" I was Protestant and this is very untrue. Many people I knew Worshipped at the altar of whatever Pastor they happened to like or whatever Denomination was telling them what they wanted to hear, and I was guilty of that too. The issue is within Evangelical Protestantism we are finding problems of sexual abuse covering them up and then pulling the rug out after the perpetrator has died. No repentance, no opportunities for such and even if someone was caught out they would take a six month "Retreat" and come back like nothing happened.
Growing up Protestant I was not raised with the ceremonial practices (other than the lords supper) tied in the Orthodox Church. I find it hard to see the necessity of many practices but having watched many videos recently from the orthodox perspective on things such as fasting and prayer I have a deep respect for you guys as these were not stressed nearly as much in the Protestant setting I knew. Despite all this we should be a united church under the authority of Jesus Christ and seek to build each other up and not destroy. God bless.
I am not Orthodox (Anglican) and I find that the rituals (liturgy) shape me and my church. Everything that we do in the service has meaning beyond itself. Whether we bow when we say the name of Jesus (practiced in Heaven), kneel when we pray (practiced in Heaven), eat weekly of Christ’s Body and Blood (feasting at the Heavenly banquet), we are doing on earth what is done in Heaven. Blessings.
@@Apriluser I have seen different church "tours" so to speak on youtube channels and one time it was an egyptian coptic church (I think that was the name). Now, I thought the different practices, rituals, and their unique hymns to their particular region were awesome. BUT the priest there made it VERY clear that everything was symbolic. He emphasized the symbolic reference to the actual scripture and did not put any actual weight into the rituals themselves. I can get behind that, but Orthodox and Catholic people seem to claim these rituals and observations are necessary for salvation, and are much more than just symbolic. Thats where Orthodox differs from any protestant branch the most. To put it simply, there is no belief in the solas in orthodoxy. Sola fide and sola scriptura are central to being a Christian. Keeping Christ in the very center of everything and not other humans, pictures, and rituals.
Christ is absolutely at the center of Orthodoxy, you simply don’t know that because you haven’t experienced it. Orthodox Christians are taught to pray ceaselessly the Jesus prayer- Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. So for an Orthodox Christian, this is the thought and desire they carry in their heart at all times! Please stop saying things about which you are ignorant.
@@fujikokun Im sorry, but you will need to give a bit more understanding of the centrality of Christ than telling me you say "the Jesus prayer" which is just a simple phrase that is always on the heart and mind of believers. Here is how you keep proving my point...you say, "we are taught to say this, pray this, do this, go here, go there, pray to this person, that person, etc" and no where do I ever hear the message of the gospel itself.
@@easytiger35 all I can tell you is that perhaps you should study Orthodoxy and visit a church before you judge. The gospel is central to everything we believe. We have rules, prayer, fasting, we ask for the prayers of saints, not because they save us, but because they help to heal us and allow Christ more into our heart. We seek to love Christ and follow him in everything we do. We absolutely know that we are saved by grace through faith. We believe faith cannot be a dead faith but must be an active faith. We take Christ at his word when He says “deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me.” That if we do not seek to do this daily, our faith is dead.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Authority of the Bible is the Church which established the Canonical books that compile the Bible...wake up...who told u whcih books are authentic? the Church so this is the authority not the Bible
@@Dropkicksmurphie everyone here has an epistemology reducible to personal interpretation. I’m just open about it and trying to get it as close to Gods direct Word as I can. As for the rest. I don’t concede
@@evans3922 By what standard does any individual at any time know what is God breathed or not? I’m not talking about you and me, but rather those who you believe canonized the 79 books. How did they know what was and wasn’t God breathed?
To me it sounds that Orthodoxy is in the Protestants’ radar because they are finally feeling threatened by it. And they should feel threatened because their time has come to become obliterated as their own adherents are leaving in droves and are joining Orthodoxy. I’m kind of happy about this.
Well then it would be the opposite since I have never seen protestants complained about Orthodoxy at all, but in every single comment section of Christian videos on Instagram/TikTok it is full catholics and orthodox hating. Protestants see ALL Christians as something beautiful, while catholics and orthodox are too busy fighting with all the other denominations sadly.
There are more Pentecostals alone than EOs. EOs have declined from 20% of global Christians in 1900 to 12%. And birth rates are collapsing in their heartlands in Eastern Europe.
@@clivejungle6999 This doesn't make Pentecostalism true. Else we would all be Arians. Also what happened in the 20th Century with Orthodoxy? Oh yeah. The second largest Genocide of the Century.
The idea that we have to pick one branch of "true Christianity" (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) is ridiculous. It produces an unflattering defensiveness that is unbecoming of people who claim to have faith.
@MattStemp It also creates an immense sense of ecclesial anxiety for many. I stand on the principle that if you are growing closer to God in on denomination, maybe stay there. If you're struggling and falling away, maybe think about trying something different. Do what best cultivates your faith
@@ilsignorsaruman2636 the EO is not a denomination. And no, Muslims, Jahovahs witness and Mormons all claim Jesus Christ. Jesus, John and Paul are clear the type of Jesus and nature of the gospel presented and believed is determinative. Do not be deceived.
I admit, when I saw the title of this 21 minute long Orthodox video was "My 5 word response" I laughed out loud with the ironic sense of how appropriate this was. BTW, Orthodox for almost 30 years now. I'm still preparing to complete my evening prayers unto the Lord, and hope to still be preparing when God decides they are complete.
Father Paul, I would love if you could cover something relating to oriental orthodoxy. I am coptic but am finding myself being drawn more and more toward the Eastern Orthodox Church. Even if it is a book recommendation, I don’t mind :)
The guy who even the Vatican Doctors have admitted he faked his stigmata? And even the idea of Stigmata being a innovation that isn't present pre schism.
My five words are, "Just read the history, man." 😂 It's honestly perplexing, you can get into never ending arguments over incredibly complex issues, but its a very short message when you just read the history of Christ and slowly move forward. Who changed, and when, is not some sort of mystery. It's all thoroughly documented.
"Jesus christ Him the same,yesterday,today and to the centuries".So by this He is not only history but today too.He is with us until the end, His grace works for us allways producing saints in every given humman era ,dew to His word"become saints because saint is my father"
God bless you Father. We we as Orthodox church are always " attacked " ? We should have the answer already,.right. My dear brother and sisters we should pray for all the lost sheeps and find their way to Jesus❤
yeah the orthodox we all see especially online are some of the most arrogant, prideful, hateful, demeaning people Ive ever seen claiming to follow Christ.
How do you square the theology of EO which teaches infernalism for the unsaved vs those of Clement of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, and Isaac of Syria (just to name a few) who teach Universal reconciliation in Christ (apokatastasis)? Kind of a big deal.
They were wrong. They were only speaking speculatively, not on behalf on the Church. We go by what the Councils teach which holds the bible as the highest standard (prima scriptura). Universal salvation is completely unbiblical therefore we reject it.
Also, the Saints aren’t infalliable and can make mistakes. Not every saint was a theologian. St Isaac was a holy ascetic and his teachings on monasticism is accepted and used while his other works and poems are not well known and his erroneous works are ignored. It’s not a big deal for us at all.
“We go by what the Councils teach” Councils composed of men who make errors, who sin, who have agendas and who perceive Scripture different from one another. You can’t have it both ways. I get it, we all want out respective denomination to be a nice tidy package where we can have absolute certainty on its theological and ecclesiastical matters, but that’s not how it works. If you admit that these men I mentioned were wrong then the same application must be made for the men that composed these councils. You’re rearranging the deck chairs.
Uhh. No. Speculative theology is something that is useful but not necessary for salvation. We don’t need to know if unbaptized babies are damned or not. That is not a salvific matter, neither do we need to know if God has forgiven heretics or not etc. What the Church teaches in Council and Synods is authoritative because otherwise you would have to say that the gates of hell prevailed over the Church, which would be to call Christ a liar. What is the Church, it’s the pillar and ground of truth, not the bible. Who is the Church, the bishops priests monks and laymen, not a building.
Fr, i assure you, you have no idea how much your videos helped me. May the mercy of God allow you to keep uploading these spiritual blessings, Praise to God!
My response: "What does the Bible say?" The presence of named saints is not evidence. I could respond with "Where is your Billy Graham?", but it would be just as meaningless. Results are up to God and not evidence of faithfulness.
@@kwfinken its arrogance to assume we know what it says, we need the holy traditions which pauls tells us to keep and which the text arose oit of and was canonized by to even understand the text
You should look at what the bible says. Correct. John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. Where are Billy Graham's amazing miracles? I personally haven't seen em.
While miracles are significant, scripture warns against relying on them alone as proof of divine approval (Deuteronomy 13:1-3, Matthew 24:24). Early Church Fathers, like Justin Martyr, valued prophecy and moral transformation over miracles, reminding us that signs must align with sound doctrine. The claim that saints are exclusive to Orthodoxy is unsubstantiated by scripture or early writings. The NT emphasizes that holiness and spiritual gifts are for all believers in Christ (John 15:5-8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13). Historical figures across traditions-Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox-demonstrate that transformative holiness is not confined to one denomination. Holiness is vital but not the sole measure of truth. Scripture balances it with adherence to sound doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16) and love for God and neighbor (Matthew 22:37-39). The Church Fathers, like Irenaeus, stressed the importance of doctrinal purity alongside sanctity. Lastly, the challenge to "show me your Saint Paisios" risks divisiveness. Scripture calls for humility and unity among believers (Philippians 2:3-4, John 17:21). Transformed lives and spiritual fruit are visible across Christian traditions, reflecting the universal work of the Holy Spirit. In the name of Jesus Christ, I bless you all!
My heart is growing increasingly softer towards the orthodox church and I do agree the orthodox church does a far better job of forming Christians into saints. I have always been bothered by the protestant stance on sins. To .e they either felt flippant or to the other extreme judgemental and without grace. That being said I believe this argument to be a poor one. 1) there is a terminology barrier which prevents many protestants from speaking about saints. 2) many protestant denominations do not recognize saints or at least modern saints and many have decentralized structures unable to communicate what God is doing at a local level across the world. Which means even if a true saint existed in one of these churches (and I believe they do) no one outside their community would know their name. 3) This one may come off as slightly disrespectful but I assure you it is not intended to be so. The challenge that other churches do not have saints seems a bit smug and makes it look as though you may not be eccumentally aware enough to be entering into the conversation in the first place. Off the top of my head I would name Smith Wigglesworth all sorts of miracles, the Wesley brothers were said to have prayed for ppl and raised them from the dead, William Seymour, Tommy Welchel, and I can't even begin to list the number of nameless souls who have done amazing miracles in developing nations like those in Africa and Asia. This is only to name a few and restrain the list to supernatural miracles not to mention ppl like Jonathan Daniel's or others that have laid down their lives for their faith. I believe the orthodox church is more authentic but I would say engaging in any way in the argument of who are "real christians" and who are not is just Christians trying to judge mens souls which is a job reserved for our heavenly Father alone. Christians are strongest and most beautiful when we love rather than when we judge.
While cessationist Southern Baptists tend to be more theologically argumentative (and thus more visible in spaces like this), I'm not seeing a whole lot of parallels between Pentecostals and St. Paisios either (and not all cessationists are Southern Baptists, by a long shot).
@sovereigngrace9723 John Wesley comes to mind. His attempt to invigorate the Anglican church, his eucharistic evangelism, and his dedication to giving everything to the poor are all note worthy. His theology was closer to the ancient churches than most other figures in protestant circles as well. His story is what brought me into Methodism and puts me into an unenviable position within this church today. Methodists aren't what they used to be, but the core theology is there for me to act as a bridge between faith traditions and love them all.
@@sovereigngrace9723John and Charles Wesley, Count VonZinzendorf, John Bunyan, John Owen, John Knox, Jonathan Edwards, Thomas Watson, Leonard Ravenhill, Charles Spurgeon etc just to start
@@fujikokun cause God chooses flawed men to carry out His will on earth. God could've done anything He wanted to create the catalyst for Christianity but He wanted apostles who could carry His message and provide eyewitness testimony to His return on earth. If He really wanted to, He didn't even have to come down.
Indeed, God does work through many means and people which He does not need, and are a mystery to us. I thank God for the saints, as my love for Him has grown many times over through them.
You’re missing the point here, brother. The fruit of the Church is that it produces holy people, that is, saints. If your “church” doesn’t produce holy people, then it isn’t bearing fruit. This is the whole point of the Christian faith…making people holy through a life in Jesus Christ.
This is a common thing I see and I agree with this, Father. I find it frustrating how often some protestants or protestant denominations will speak with any kind of authority on these topics, and even go so far as to say that Orthodoxy is wrong or has wrong beliefs. They don't realize that their entire denomination is based on separating from authority, and has separated from the church. Protestantism HAS no authority because it willingly separated itself from it 500 years ago. The most common thing I hear from my protestant friends is "I haven't found a church I agree with yet", as if their theology is 100% correct, and as if the truth is subservient to them and not the other way around! As an ex-protestant, I also used to think and talk that way, which is why I thank God that he has led me to Orthodoxy while I am still young (I got introduced at 18, but didnt really start taking it seriously until 21). And their source for these things is "where is X in the bible?" as if the bible was magically handed down from heaven right after Pentecost, and that the church that Jesus founded wasn't involved at all in discerning the Canon of Scripture. And as if the bible says that everything true about Christianity MUST be in the bible. (The Westminster confession isn't in the bible, neither is the "Sinner's prayer"). But like you said, arguments only show so much. The RESULTS are what truly matter, and from personal experience, I ALWAYS felt lost at sea when I was protestant. It seemed like nobody knew what was going on, and was just trying to navigate this life blind, with some vague "sense" of Christ. But now that I have found Orthodoxy (by the grace of my sister, who needs prayers), I no longer feel as lost. There is actual, good topics and teachings here in the church, as well as these examples. The protestant church has never had these figures. The protestant titans may be brilliant intellectuals, but you never hear of them being clairvoyant or being able to be in two places at near the same time. These stories, if true, are quite literally game changing. If someone truly believed these stories, there would be nothing preventing them from going into the deep end. All of their fears become irrelevant. This world is no longer the important thing, eternity becomes important. And if these stories are true, it shows us that eternity is real. May God give us the comfort and the strength and the mercy and grace to be like him.
These stories are definitely true. Im a convert to orthodoxy too and here in Greece I have met many people who met St Paisios and recounted how he knew everything about them as soon as they met him.
'Ooooh Loooord Just You SAVE my soul 'Oooooh Lord have MERCY on my soul.. He's got the WHOLE WORLD in His hands He's got the WHOLE WIDE WORLD in His hands 'cause He's The King Of Kings and The Prince of Peace He's The King of Kings and The Prince of Peace Oh you better trust oh oh you better believe He ll bow every knee He ll confess.. every tongue Who the Lord is.. 'Oooooh Loooord Just You SAVE my soul 'Ooooooh Lord have MERCY on my soul.. He's THEE WAAY.. LIGHT AND LIFE He's THE ONLY WAAY.. LIGHT AND LIFE 'cause He's The King Of Kings and The Prince of Peace He's The King of Kings and The Prince of Peace
I've known a few 'Protestant' pastors with something like this. One was a Foursquare Gospel pastor who got described as "exuding pastorness". When people would come to the church for the first time quite often they didn't need to ask who the pastor was, they just looked at all the people and knew which of them was him -- in fact I experienced that myself my first time attending an event there; I walked in wondering how I was going to find the pastor in the large crowded room, but two steps into the room I knew which man was him without having to ask. Another was a Lutheran priest who would see right to the heart of a dispute or disagreement and speak to that core of the matter in a way that pointed people to Jesus.
“Show me your St. Paisios - you’re joking, right? As a Protestant, this is so tone-deaf to the nature of our disagreements with Orthodox, it is difficult to know where to begin. There are several possible responses, but I think I’ll go with a cheeky one - was Orthodoxy not true until the 20th century?
Actually, saying any saints name does the trick. There are many implications that come with that and though. Specifically the understanding of the Fall in the garden and how the eastern understanding is different than the western way(which Protestantism would fall into). With that, that then leads to why Christ came and the incarnation, His death, and His resurrection and the implications that come from these. A saint and what it means covers so much theological ground that most Protestants have never heard of or do not understand(not saying that you do not).
It's not so much "tone-deaf" as it is an attempt to look at the overall dispute from a different angle; see Mat. 7:15-20. Respectfully, your cheeky response shows that you haven't paid much attention to what Fr. Paul says.
The Protestant reform was done bc of the Roman Catholic Church in the west. At that time Eastern Orthodoxy was unknown by the people of the west. The Catholic Church was changing things to fit their agenda whereas the Eastern Orthodox Church remained true. I was raised protestant. Because I have educated myself I am catecumin. Father is not downing protestant beliefs. He is showing us the True way. The proper way to worship God.
He will believe it! He’s not blind to the virtues of Orthodox Christianity and deeply respects different expressions. However, he believes the substance is Christ, and the expression is not. Even so, Protestantism has a notable list of saints that would be hard to argue against.
I believe in all the miracles that come from these holy fathers. But what’s interesting is that I have seen many miracles myself. They prophetic grace works regularly in my life. So this doesn’t move me any close to orthodoxy. It just shows that the Spirit isn’t confined to denominational and cultural barriers.
Your point that the works of Pentecost were never restricted to the New Testament is spot on - but it is an argument that supports Pentecostals and Charismatics more than it does the Orthodox. Take a Pentecostal leader like Smith Wigglesworth. The weightiness of the Holy Spirit was so heavy upon him that he could simply sit next to a Catholic priest on a train and, without a word exchanged, the man turn to him and say, "Sir, you convict me of my sin," and the revival breaks out over the entire train. He and his also performed healing, both through the laying on of hands and through praying over handkerchiefs which were sent to those who needed them. He was a 20th century example, but I have been to Charismatic meetings where spirits were driven out, healings occurred, and the miraculous became normal. Pentecost is indeed still for today.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy originally from Evangelical churches. I find it draining the debating between the sides. Let us not forget Christ is our lord
Amen. But to be fair (former evangelical and now Anglican) the EOC and the Roman church tell other Christians that they are the true church. It’s challenging to be charitable with those strongly-held beliefs. I appreciate that the Anglicans don’t express that kind of exclusivity.
@@Apriluser they think the true church is like handing over some banner in a race because of its historical link. The present so called true church is only as old as it’s present members!
@@marjoriezimmerman3969 if I use the same example: Do you believe that salvation is for the Jews alone? Jews believed it was for them and not the gentiles so surely it is only for the Jews....
@ Jews had a narrow, ethnocentric view of what a messiah was to be…including a great civic or military leader. And what was Israel? A genetically related bunch of clans worshipping the same gid? No, it included many who were not genetically related. Regardless of what their parochial view was, Pentecost made it clear that what God intended was for righteous people of all nations, status and sex should be made holy if they believed in Christ’s Way…His teachings of the true Israel and living lives according to those teachings. This is why Christianity has historically been referred to as the New Israel. Saying salvation comes via the Jews doesn’t mean that only Jews are saved…it means that the vehicle thru which righteous people could be set aside as holy is One who came through the genealogical line of the Jews.
Calling yourself “father” directly violates the words of the Lord Jesus. Matthew 23 (ESV) 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
@@easytiger35 Nobody thinks that though, so that’s a strawman. When a person calls a priest “Father” it’s a sign of respect and the acknowledgement of their priestly office as they are quite literally acting as the spiritual father of their flock. 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 completely refutes this tired argument as well.
Just a small suggestion before people comment: Perhaps buy one of the Lives I talk about and read it first. And know that St Paisios is one of MANY holy figures. The point is that results speak… They speak louder than assertions and theological claims. They show where God is at work in creating people who look, act, and speak like the Apostles. It’s work to read a book first, but it’s worthwhile and holy work. Just a suggestion.
The divine Matrix ✨️
Blue pill or Red pill?
🐉Jesus is the encoded fallen angel!
Isaiah 14:12-15 / Ezekiel 28:12-17
🚫 We consumed from the forbidden tree when we ate of his body & drank of his blood🍷 🥖 Genesis 2
🚫 This symbolic Cannibalistic ritual & witchcraft is forbidden to the God of Israel!
Leviticus 7:27 / Leviticus 19:26
🚫 Jesus created his own covenant & told us to eat his flesh, drink his blood, pray in his name & *not STRAIGHT to the God of Israel😬
Ezekiel 45:22 /John 6:53-58 / Psalm 16:4.
🚫 Jesus was rebuked & anguished after his last supper covenant & was forsakften on the cross & casted down as a result of his own sin. Matthew 26:36-46 / Zechariah 13:7
🚫 Jesus said he is the only way & that's a lie! 🐍Just learn from all of Gods Righteous people.... Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, all the Profits, Isreal & more!
Psalm 32
☦️ Jesus said he was the erected bronze snake in the wilderness of Exodus. John 3:14-15
🚫 The churches & Islam are praying to dead idols & false gods. Deuteronomy 4:28
🚫 Christians & Islam believers are dangerous & destructive for a lack of knowledge & have persecuted & pierced Gods Holy people for thousands of years.😪Matthew 10:34 / Hosea 4:6 / Psalm 83
☦️ The bronze snake became an idol that was eventually destroyed..2 Kings 18:4
Checkmate ♟️Zechariah 13:7 / Deuteronomy 8:2 /Exodus 7:16
Hear📣...O Israel / believers, our God YHWH is one☝️Deuteronomy 6:4-9
🕊From the prayer of Moses Exodus 32:15-34, & the Hopi nation, the miracle of the white buffalo, & the spirit of Elijah calling from the wilderness, remember the 10 Love commands & repent of your wicked ways! Exodus 8:1- Malachi 3
Isaiah 1:18 / Exodus 20:1-7
❤️1. Thou shalt have NO other gods before YHWH
❤️2. Thou shalt NOT make unto thee any graven images.
❤️3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
❤️4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
❤️5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
❤️6. Thou shalt not murder
❤️7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
❤️8. Thou shalt not steal.
❤️9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
❤️10. Thou shalt not covet.
Give jesus & his churches what is theirs & give the Creator Father YHWH what is His & let's make Israel & the world amazing again!...Psalms 51✌️
It is entirely fair to judge a belief system based on its fruits, but to suggest that sainthood is the sole standard by which we should use to judge one another seems dishonest. It is not a habit of protestants to chronicle the lives of one another in order that their good deeds may be forever woven into the tapestry of church history.
@@HolyFool-i1o What kind of rage bait it this? First of all, where did your cannon come from, and who canonized it? It goes back to the Orthodox Catholic Church... not whatever you're trying to deceive people with..
@@GameOn0827 In Scripture, we are called to be saints, and live saintly lives!
@frpaul honestly what else can we judge a tree except from its fruits, a healthy tree will produce fruits, and this is a question that sadly most churches must just lift their hands 🤷♂️ . the total lack of mystical understanding and true belief in the miracles, most Christians dont even know what a saint is.
Your videos with 10MinuteBibleHour were the first encounter i had with Orthodoxy. I am now faithfully attending and have been baptized. Thank you for everything you do!
one of the first for me too! haha and also have become Orthodox since then. ❤
You have only been baptized into the lake of fire and have been made twice dead. You have been completely deceived!
@@vaporizejello Repent!
@@brennanstride3405 sadly this is a similar story with many. A reward received in full. What exactly was worth trading the gospel of grace for?
@@HusGoose Where is this gospel of grace found? Oh, that's right, Christ's Holy Orthodox Church.
Thank you Lord for leading me from a non believing sinner, to a non denominational bible reader, then to a Orthodox catechumen ☦️
What convinced you of orthodoxy?
@ in my private time I always prayed to understand and have the theology of the apostles. I found Orthodoxy by online research of the early church. Roman catholicisms ecumenism is very evident so I feel Orthodoxy is the true church passed through apostlolic succession. The monarchical trinity model, ever virgin mary and the process of theosis have been things I understood while reading the scriptures, but had no idea any church held to these views until I found Orthodoxy.
@@dolphinitely_bro3944how did you conclude the perpetual virginity of mary from the scriptures?
@@alejandrosantiago781David Erhan has videos on the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos if you're interested
Me too! I was received into the Church a few months ago ☦☦☦
As a Fundamental Baptist I think the whole "protestants destroyed in 1 sentence" or "orthodoxy crushed in 60 seconds" videos are some of the most damaging and fruitless efforts out there. There are lots of Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox that are easily a great example that I can find for encouragement and a good example to motivate me to be better. There are also plenty of all 3 that could demonstrate less than ideal things, too. Most of the rhetorical debate only leads to temptations of arrogance, anger, etc. At the end of the day Jesus Christ is what I should keep my life pointed at. God Bless all my brothers and sister in Christ.
Amen!
Beware of people who focus on division
How many Churches did Jesus establish?
Answer:1
I became a catechumen of the Church yesterday, pray for me all of you! ☦️
welcome home
Glory to God
That’s awesome! God bless you on your journey!
We became catechumen on the same day ☦️😊
You need prayer for God to open your blind eyes and to get you out of the 100% false, manmade, Godless abomination you have been snared into. Repent, and run away from this false, manmade, antigod, antibible, antichrist religion (cult)!
I was on Mt Athos recently and met a grace filled Elder. You could feel the grace when he entered the room, and when he embraced you or simply touched your shoulder, everything felt at peace. He radiated love and I felt he knew my heart as he discussed and gave guidance on many things pertinent to me, without me saying a word.
I was really struggling spiritually prior to this. I don't know how to explain what happened with words, but I knew he was praying for me as he spoke and I felt as though there was this... presence of love and divine Grace which entered my heart, it was like he sent me a kind of spiritual care package to encourage me.
There are still such people on Athos in 2024
I'm aware of how climate change has made these UFO stories our only hope of avoiding extinction within a decade.
Immaculate Constellation Document
"The official disclosure of the existence of Non-Human Intelligences (NHIs) and their presence on Earth is a pivotal moment in human history." Does anything prove faith worthy of respect more than finding prophets & cherubim in the Yellow Pages? President Carter, informed he lacked a need to know, was left weeping from the UFO brief. He was a man of faith; Earth is owned by machines.
Withought these men and women I would simply want to die. God I hope I give birth as in with my wife to give life to children, I will make two of my children each sex , dedicated to God. Cause I cannot reach God without the help of my children I believe. Adam wasn't as holy as Enoch and Elijah. But Adam is to be respected by all humans so is eve. Anyone which curses their father and mother is cursed by their own tounges stupidity.
Sigh. I hoped this was true. Wish there was an equivalent location for women to go to
@@lovingthisagainI have heard the Abbess of the monastery in Quebec, Canada is like this.
The monastery that Saint Ephraim of Arizona established.
There are Sister's in Monasteries. The one I have gone to is, St. Nicholas in Dunlop, CA.
The second you enter you feel the peace.
“Lord have mercy on me”. 5 word response 😂
I haven’t watched the video yet but my 5 word response would be, “The Church wrote the scriptures.”
Jesus is the main thing
@@suzannemartin6817 I 100% agree; do you know the most sacred prayer in Orthodoxy?
@@westingoode3105this is exactly right . Protestants like to say they are in a “Bible believing church” .. We Orthodox are in the “Bible writing church” 😊
@@MarkKelly-LPC Thank you sir.
This is not an argument. If you want to place your faith in men, there are a whole bunch of Protestants that make a big deal about the manifestation of the gifts of the spirit among their own, and while some might be questionable, there have been snake-handlers, people with visions, people who heal and all the rest in astounding numbers among Protestants, and I know for a fact at least some of these are real, though I would be hesitant to tie the miracles to the people; these are gifts from God. I have seen God heal people, as a Protestant, at the behest of Protestant prayers; He had a conversation with my mother and healed her. She said the room seemed to divide in two, as if a thick black line separated her from my father and sister, and God asked her: "what can I do for you my child?", and after initially feeling His peace and thinking she would like to go and be with Him, she ended up saying she did not want to leave my father alone yet, and where previously she had been told that her cancer had been 'going crazy', the next time the doctor was baffled and kept asking aloud if perhaps he had made a mistake the last time, but there was no mistake. The other was recently with a friend who gave his crippling pain that left him unable to move to God, and was immediately relieved of that pain, and he could stand up and go about his day. I have been telling him on and off about God for years and after this event he came to me and told me he wants to be baptised.
Now you may not believe me, but there are many Protestants (and Catholics) with similar stories. We Protestants, for the most part at least, fully accept that there are true Christians among the EO church. The issue comes then when you try to tell us that we are not Christians because we are not a part of your church, or because we do not venerate icons, or pray to the saints, and so on and so forth. Clearly, God has been at work in the lives of Protestants and Eastern Orthodox, and I'm sure He has been at work in the lives of Roman Catholics and Ethiopian Orthodox and Egyptian Coptics and many more. Where there is true faith in Christ, even if there is some confusion and error on certain points, I am sure God has been active and worked through His followers. He is a merciful God.
This then brings us back to those questions that you have not given an argument for. I think there is a large and wonderful community of Christians spread out among the world. I am sure there are things that we can all learn from each other. I would like to see us all come together, realise we are Christians, hash out error where we might find it and expunge it, and all follow Christ as best we can. Sadly, the EOs and RCs make this difficult when they deny others or worse, condemn them. This needs to be addressed, and there have been some Protestants doing good work to address it; but this video stands in the way of bringing Christians together, and it does so without even presenting an actual argument.
Excellent post Haggis. In the end all debate about legitimacy or authority within Christianity comes back to the evidence of the Holy Spirit. Not in a "signs and wonders" way, but because all authority was given to Christ and the Holy Spirit ministers that authority.
To begin answering the video one who I have personally met is Brother Yun "the heavenly man" from China. I have yet to meet an Orthodox Christian who already knew of him before I brought him up. But while we can read his two books, most of his life and work is held in the lives of other Christians, not on the pages of a book. God determines who the true Saints are.
Well said. The fact remains that Orthodoxy and Catholicism have primary doctrine that are not Biblically-based, which is why Protestants rejected them in the first place.
Beautifully said, thank you so much for this.
Amen and amen. The Son of Man has authority to draw all men to Himself, men and women from "every people, nation, and tongue". He fished for Gentiles and pagans and grafted them into the true vine and He continues to do so. Some of the holiest followers of Jesus I have known have come from "low church" traditions, which emphasize the perspicuity and authority of Scripture, the Lordship of Jesus, and living holy lives in the power of the Holy Spirit. One only has to look at the Holy Spirit's work in their lives to know they hear His voice, are of His fold, and are sealed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit by the grace provided by Christ's atoning work. I see unregenerate (non-fruit bearing) protestants as well as unregenerate RCs, EOs, AOs, etc. And yet, I recognize that amongst all of these traditions there are followers of Christ whom are within His collective bride, the church. Would that all these traditions look outside themselves and see the God is at work outside themselves.
God can work wherever he wants, this is despite the errors though, just because a group in history departed from christisnity and taught falsehoods about the identity of christ doesnt mean god doesnt work in the midst of the deviations these individuals created and the remnants of these groups hundreds of years later with all the protestant sects etc, maybe the originators of these things would be judged differently though compared to the simple guy who has a spiritual experience and goes to the only church in town which could be a protestant denomination and knows no better etc, the fact remsins though that we were given a very particular thing, christ incarnated in time and space here, not over there, and the church is this, not that, people can depart from it, change it, alter it, abandon it, but it still remains the way we were given it and recieved it, only the fullness of everything is in the orthodox church, illumination, theosis, mystical union etc is only possible here, outside the church it isnt possible, doesnt mean god doest work there despite the errors, he wants us to come to what he gave us though
"Come At Me, Brother Heretic."
I haven't watched it yet, were those the five words?
3:25
This gave me a good laugh. Thank you 😂☦️
Hinduism claims the way to Christ is through hesychasm. How is your version that is newer and adopted from Hinduism different and not pagan?
@@Cannible1Post Hoc fallacy. Genetic fallacy. Correlation/causation fallacy. Equivocation fallacy. Proposition fallacy. Causal fallacy.
@ You have no response because you know it’s true. You can’t disprove the claim
One of the most frustrating things that I experience with my protestant friends is their constant complaining that protestant churches do not offer fellowship and accountability. And simultaneously their complete rejection of orthodoxy, which 100% offers what they say they are lacking. I have to just stop and pray for them. I want to shake them awake and say, “ you are begging for a spiritual hospital and every time I show you the sign pointing to the spiritual hospital you start telling me that I am wrong….that you need your library to convert to a hospital instead.” Sigh. Pray for the whole world.
I don't associate with people at church
I really don't associate with people at church
This is a ridiculous comment
Where are toll houses in the bible?
Maybe thats why they dont accept the orthodox church. Lack of recognition of the scriptures as ultimate authority.
I share you experience and pain. God bless you. Christ is Risen.
'Protestant' speaking here...and I LOVE the Orthodox church! Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for the information about Saint Paisios...I will definitely read up on him.
Also read Saint Nektarios
@@George88851 Thank you, will do.
@@George88851 The life of St Nektarios moved me to tears....
Me too. He is my absolute favorite saint. I love him dearly and ask for his prayers daily.
I also "The Path to Salvation" by St. Theophan the Recluse.
As a new convert from Protestantism, I left because I was in danger of losing my faith, and because I saw in Orthodoxy the way to be fully Christian. As a side note, my priest spent 10 years on Mt Athos as a monk. I have never met a Christian like him. There are times when I feel like I’m in the presence of Christ. I think this is something I noticed about Orthodoxy from the time I encountered it, and I don’t see it anywhere else. Even in Fr Paul, at a low level, I notice occasionally a grace there that I don’t see in Catholics or Protestants. Not all Orthodox certainly, and not necessarily often, it’s just that I don’t see it anywhere else.
I am not quite a catechumen yet, but your words express exactly how I feel!
I've noticed this as well about the orthodox priests
Where is your church?
Spokane, WA.
are you born again?
This gives me such faith in the Orthodox Church. Other Christian traditions can produce good, loving, and charitable people. But nothing like St. Paisios and other saints that we have witnessed in recent memory.
☦️☦️
Saint Padre Pio.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Here’s the key portion:
"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with."
I've meet Protestants who had a Holy awe about them. I wasn't a Christian when I met some of them. Their presence, that is God's presence, terrified me. When I became a follower of Jesus, I began to understand what was happening to me when I was around them.
How do you know that was God's presence and not something else? The Holiness from Saint Piasios was like meeting someone who existed in paradise. The world seemed to breath around him and he never wanted people to be terrified. God doesn't want to make you feel terror.
@@anothercat1300the presence of God is not calming for those opposed to him. I don’t know where you get that idea
thank you for that.
@@OctagonalSquare Demons enjoy terrifying people, not God. God is an all-consuming fire that people will have a negative response to. But God doesn't wish to terrify you. He's beyond gentle and kind. If you want a good picture of who the Father is read the parable of the Prodigal Son.
@@anothercat1300how do you know it wasn’t?? This is my only real issue with the Orthodox Church. “Everyone within orthodoxy is amazing. No one outside orthodoxy is amazing.”
1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Here’s the key portion:
"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with."
"but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with."
This is one of the most contested verses of scripture in the NT.
Many disagree about what Paul is referring to by "complete." My ESV bible renders the greek word τελειος (teleios) as "perfect." But it can also be rendered complete. This is the same word that Christ uses in Matthew 5:48 when he says "you must be perfect (teleios) as your heavenly Father is perfect."
With that in mind, I as well as many other continuationists interpret this to mean that when Christ returns for his bride, the church, prophesy and tongues and knowledge will no longer matter since these are all gifts of the spirit-before and after 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is talking about spiritual gifts-given to strengthen and build up the body of Christ.
I would support this interpretation with 1 Corinthians 13:12 which says "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I KNOW IN PART; then I SHALL KNOW FULLY, even as I have been fully known." This is the foremost apostle of the apostolic age saying even now he sees in a mirror dimly, but THEN (at the resurrection) we will all see face to face. "See" who? God.
No more will we need signs and wonders, and visions, and prophecies to show us the glory of God. We will see God face to face, and be forever in his presence. Who else knows you "fully", my friend, but God? He says we will "know fully", but do you believe that full knowledge will come in this lifetime? Will anyone "fully" know and understand God while only seeing him through revelation of scripture, through prophesies, through tongues and spiritual gifts? That's a stretch exegetically, if you ask me.
I find it much more plausible to believe he's talking about heaven, not earth.
Can't you see what he's saying? He's saying once we are brought into his presence forever, the love that we receive from the Father never ends, but there will be no need for prophecy and knowledge and tongues; those are just signs of what is to come! As the prophet Jeremiah said:
"And NO LONGER shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”" -31:34
And so said Christ:
"Now this is ETERNAL LIFE: that THEY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." - John 17:3
This is what Paul is talking about, while juxtaposing the death of partial knowledge with the everlasting power of God's love.
Does that make sense?
Father Truebenbach, as a cradle Eastern Orthodox Christian I have followed your UA-cam channel for over a year now. You have been a pure blessing to our Church. Glory to Christ for fathers like you in this world of ours. Your blessings, father.
Now it's time for you to listen to the words of the Apostles, who said you can only claim to know God (which is much more than just being a member of a religion) if you are 100% sure you are going to Heaven when you die: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:13
Read John 5:24 for yourself to find out how (trusting in God the Son ALONE to save you, who is a Person and who is not a religion/church: 1 Timothy 2:5).
@ but you see that Bible verse (or any Bible verse) was written in the Greek and put in the Bible you are quoting by the very church fathers, father Truebenbach is speaking to you about. Of course they trust Christ and Christ alone. Why else would they record all of it in the Bible for you and me and the entire world? Why else would they sacrifice their own lives throughout the centuries without any gain, but for you to read it? Don’t you think you should listen and find out how and why they did that for you, literally for the love of Christ?! Hmm?
It might help actually.
Honestly I feel like this argument can be used against every church that isn't the Orthodox Church. To my surprise there is a growing number of orthodox people who are seeing the phrases and singing that the Oriental Church have the Holiness of our church. And I feel like it's a betrayal cuz I would never say such a thing because there is no church other than the Orthodox Church that creates such amazing saintly figures.
You are correct there is only ONE Church -Eastern Orthodox Christian Church! Everything else are heretical buildings, but not churches.
@@LaustibiChriste33perhaps you should go watch an orgy rather than judging the orgy...
@@LaustibiChriste33 look who is judging! Have you seen the Tree of Life? The Lord God and Savior Eastern Orthodox Jesus Christ is the Path, Truth and Life! He is the head of His body Eastern Orthodox Church. He has one body, not many bodies.
@LaustibiChriste33 Its faulty reasoning, why would you need to watch an orgy to know it is wrong?
Likewise why would the person have to go to heretical churches to know it is wrong?
I'm a protestant (for now) and you're reasoning only sounds nice because you take the attitude of ecumenism or the attitude of Gomez.
You don't need to experience something to know it is wrong.
I have to make such a strong analogy otherwise it'll derail the argument for awhile over not judging people (which the Bible doesn't say that, it says work on yourself first so you may help other rightly and you will be measured on how you judge so don't be a hypocrite.)
@LaustibiChriste33 Its faulty reasoning, why would you need to watch an orgy to know it is wrong?
Likewise why would the person have to go to heretical churches to know it is wrong?
I'm a protestant (for now) and you're reasoning only sounds nice because you take the attitude of ecumenism or the attitude of Gomez.
You don't need to experience something to know it is wrong.
The story of St. Paisios is what is pulling me towards joining our Orthodox church in Kansas City. The Orthodox church is an unbroken chain of true spiritual awakening that goes all the way back to Christ himself. Its so wild too that i started typing this reply before he said Where is your St.Paisios?
Spoiler alert 😂
I wish the story of the unbroken chain of Apostolic succession from the 1st century was enough for everyone to be convinced… seems pretty straightforward to me! The lives of the Saint’s is the icing on the cake. Why people argue or try to refute it with ignorance is mind boggling!!!
St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church in KC if you are looking for a place. Fr. Turbo is the priest.
They don’t even have the second coming correct. They claim Jesus is coming back when he already returned in 70ad.
Check out St. Mary of Egypt in KCMO
"Show me your Saint Paisios" are the 5 words, in case anyone is impatient.
Basically he liked this guy and the stories about him that he's read, so begome Ortho.
Never mind that this is also the argument of the Muslims, who point to their perfect prophet. Or the Mormons, or various Christian groups who like their favorite figure of their denomination.
Idk, I'm more of the camp that theology is a better metric than measuring whose favorite legendary figures against one another.
So, not that I wish to speak for protestants, but a good 4-word response might be "show me your Bible" and we can see together what Christ and the apostles taugh without having to speculate.
Were the bodies of Muhammad and Joseph Smith incorruptible? If no, then Muslims and Mormons can't compare them to our Saints. Incorruptible bodies allow for relics, and relics are a by-product of incarnational Theology! It shows that the Faith one speaks of is real (and not just of the mind only...AKA ...what you prefer). We don't deny the Power of God for the power of God is incarnational. It's real in the here and now! This is why his 5 words matter!
Yeah…I was really expecting that the argument would be better than “check out these books that are NOT the Bible”
If you consider the statement "Show me your Saint Paisios" as an endorsement of the concept of "Christian Perfection" rather than as "I liked this guy and the stories about him...", it actually shows the Orthodox disagreement with the Protestant worldview quite well. As an evangelical, it is actually a brilliant way to highlight the difference with Rome. This is because, besides the Protestant teaching of concupiscence *as* the presence of sin (or, that the presence of sin remains within the body even after his guilt is wiped out, imputed onto Christ - Romans 7:21-25, Galatians 5:17), there is actually no other significant point of *doctrine* that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Cranmer all articulate in the *exact same way* that isn't a simply a general 'Christian point of agreement' with Rome as well (obviously there are other things they agree on, but those were more concerned with their approach to the practice, piety and politics of Rome - things which change, unlike formally-professed dogma). It is also the only Protestant doctrine, which, over the centuries, has remained utterly unaltered in its normative understanding - every other unifying concept in Protestantism, be it Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Deo Gloria, Solus Christus - all of them differ greatly in how they are interpreted, not to mention how differently they are treated in the common day than in ages past (an example with Sola Scriptura's diverse interpretations is how Francis Turretin, Zwingli, Luther and Calvin all explicitly refer to Tradition to 'affirm' the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, despite there being prooftexts against it in his mind. Another example is how some Anglicans, early ones, so not just 'Anglo Catholics', will hold to 'Solus Christus' yet also say that their 'priests' are acting 'in persona Christi').
By pointing to a man's life as an example, the Orthodox demonstrate that they believe in "Christian Perfection", or that the presence of sin is indeed eradicated from his body in regeneration. Such a thing no Protestant can earnestly affirm. Now, does simply stating that you believe in "Christian Perfection" actually prove the position? No. But it is a good response nonetheless because it shows where the soul of the issue is.
@@lemmingkingyt5618 It's essentially two groups talking past one another. He is convinced of what he believes because of an example he has for Christian Perfection, but doesn't even mention any Biblical argument for his belief. A protestant (hopefully) will argue the Biblical merit of their position but not believing in Christian Perfection, will not consider an example even relevant.
@@ChristianCombatives It's also important to mention that a Protestant cannot affirm Christian Perfection. Otherwise, justification can not be purely forensic (and also be ontological) - this is Catholicism, or, on the other hand we must affirm Pelagianism.
As a Protestant, I love and respect my brethren in the Orthodox church. I have agreements and disagreements in matters of doctrine, but I believe we are still siblings in Christ. I will say, the Protestant response to these five words is also very simple: "we don't need one."
Great video, I’m currently somewhat new to orthodoxy. I’ve spent my entire life a protestant, so a lot of things are new to me. I’ve been wondering, which saint to start learning about first, but I guess this settles it. I closed your video to look him up so I wouldn’t forget and really even in the pictures of him i can feel a kindness and humility coming through my phone screen maybe I’m just crazy though lol
You're not crazy. That is, quite honestly, how I and so many others feel when one studies a Saint like St. Paisios. He radiates warmth and love. Extremely Christ-like.
As a Protestant, I’ve enjoyed learning about brothers with different persuasions who are rooted in Christ. Ive grown to love orthodoxy for what I know of it. Church history is rich. Christ is King. Ecclesiology and doctrine matter. Charitable disagreements are worth wrestling through with brothers who think differently. Love is the chief motive and our faith in Christ requires that we demonstrate we love one another without unnecessary division. That said- God spoke and divided light from darkness. We have to mark and avoid, call it for what it is- that some are just simply not Christian’s, some are weak and need mercy, some are harsh and need mercy, and no matter what- not a single one of us deserve salvation in Christ and yet belief in Christ has brought us into this family. Thank you for contending for the faith and uploading your persuasion with biblical reference and church history.
Grace to you☦️
What a gracious and irenic response. I agree. As an evangelical and now Anglican, I am so grateful for the great Traditions of the Church. So much to learn from, glean, and consider. Christ’s disciples are known by the love they have for one another, despite our difference (and some are not insignificant).
Blessings.
@@Joeymuggz A Protestant huh? How much does scripture matter on ecclesiological and doctrinal scale? Do you know the EO gospel?
@@HusGoose a Protestant- yes. How much? A ton . It’s why I’m searching so much.. not sure how you expect Id answer that( as in a number scale?) EO meaning Eastern Orthodox? I’m still working through what the theological clear differences are. At the time of this writing, I’m a confessional reformed baptist and see some clear distinctions of course. That said, I don’t understand why some of us (universally speaking of the Christian church) try to lord over the persuasions of others. I wasn’t always reformed theologically, so to think this is my last stop would be irresponsible in my opinion. Taking the time to learn about the rest of the body, what makes us brothers(or not) and being charitable from an informed position makes disagreements clear and correction loving. Otherwise we become tribal and act as if people were baptized into anything other than Christ.
Where do you stand brother?
@@Joeymuggz I understand your quest for knowledge and truth. I am reformed Baptist as well because it’s biblical. If it weren’t we shouldn’t be. We should never graduate from this position because the scripture is fixed.
And there is absolutely ecumenical brotherhood we can have with Presbyterians, basic non-demons Calvary chapel, conservative Methodists Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. because we agree on the gospel and general front stage presuppositions (though we may disagree on backstage predestination and the effectual nature of baptism).
As a reformed people we believe in always reforming back to original intent. Meaning, all church history is important to study but ultimately doesn’t matter if it conflicts with what the apostles taught. Church history is full of apostasy and heresy at many times almost impacting the entire church. This happened before and after the EO even existed. Again, We reform to original intent.
So as a reformed person, what is the true gospel? The one Paul taught and said if anyone preached a gospel other than the one I preached the them be accursed? The EO church does not believe that gospel. In EO You are justified by works throughout your life as merited Grace is extended to you. This process is called Theosis and is semi-Arian. It is Anti-Ephesians.
The reason the situation is serious is the EOs have an overlay dogma, similar to Roman Catholicism that evolved over time. Through people they label saints, like Paisios highlighted in this video, They venerate and regard what they say as on par with the text. In fact, If it comes down to the text vs a “saint” they side with the saint. And say, look how good he sounds as we saw here.
Their view of scripture is not scripture alone, but that the ecclesia alone can interpret scripture. Therefore it’s ecclesia alone and scripture when its suits us.
So If you read the plain meaning of the text as we do in Ephesians 1 and 2 they will deny it in practice and direct you to their works-based concept of Theosis. Then they proceed to argue like a Roman Catholic about meritorious grace.
If you are not familiar with theosis I would encourage you to read their own texts. In the matter. Also read Athanasius, whom we agree with to see where they take his quotes and create a dogma around it. Look into their veneration of the saints, note the prayers to the dead etc.
but again most importantly ask an EO how can one be saved. It will become immediately clear, whether you are speaking with a priest or the laity you are speaking with a modern Pharisee, for the exact same reason. Not someone who has heard the gospel.
They need to be loved and evangelized, not encouraged.
@ totally hear you brother. One of the reasons I continue to search is to understand how they got the conclusion they are at and how they reason.
Hearing their( their meaning anyone of a different persuasion) perspective from them and hearing how it’s defended in debates or through church history help me examine what I think I believe.
That said, being that we believe in it being by grace alone and in the sovereignty of God- God Himself is sovereign over wack theology. It’s not because of what we know that we are saved. It’s because of who He is. Being reformed and learning more about church history and governance has been extremely helpful in understanding how people come to the persuasions they get to. What’s your take on Assyrian, EO etc in regards to tradition? Beyond what could be deemed legalistic(let’s be honest, Calvinists just like the rest can fall into legalism too) and beyond ecclesiology, do you think they hold accurate church traditions from the early church?
The problem is that western Protestants are in such a bubble, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of them have to idea who St Paisios is and don't even really understand what a saint is.
@@icxcnika2037 Exactly. They'll reply with something like "all Bible-beleiving Christians are saints", or some other banal platitude.
They don’t know the difference between ‘saints’(all believers) and ‘Saints’( those saints who have manifested lives closest to being Christ-like.
@@mayorofbasedville7680same word, different meanings.
So who declares someone is a Saint?
@icxcnika2037 what's the handkerchief example?
My five word response to ~anyone~ who claims extra-Biblical authority, "Show me a Bible verse."
@@TheOriginalRick ua-cam.com/video/JFhgSkDZAl8/v-deo.htmlsi=S4PveWyfGFt2dZe9
I am Protestant, I am thankful that I have the freedom to be Protestant and that you have the freedom to be Orthodox. Rather then fight about why I'm more biblical then you I choose to just let you be Orthodox. Let people read their bibles and if God gives discernment let people discern. I do not follow dead Saints, I follow the living God. Any true teacher of Christ will not try to join you to themselves, but rather make sure you are joined to Christ. Jesus said my sheep hear MY Voice. We are at the time when the Wheat and the Tares have matured and it about to be harvested. Better make sure that the fruit your bearing is wheat. You don't want to hear those terrifying words "depart from me I never knew you".
Very Well said, my brother !!
Another example of this denomination exalting people they deem saints to make it look as if protestants are out here doing nothing. My family was raised Baptist as was I and I think we've all moved into non-denominational territory. My uncle turned his life around and gave himself to Jesus. Ended up making a ton of money selling insurance. Then he decided to quit his lucrative career so that he could build a church and drive a school bus. In the country, drugs had become a problem and his church took in addicts and put them through rehab. His church grew and so did his ministry. My uncle gave a lot of money away over the years too, yet he never went under. Never left his ministry or stifled his generosity even when his brother told him to go back to the insurance gig. I've seen Gods blessings in his life and in our family's life. Protestants don't need to record every single notable person per church or time period because we have no need to exalt or worship people, or pray to anyone except Jesus who is the one mediator between man and God. These religious leaders are so tone deaf that they can't recognize how much they sound like ignorant Pharisees as opposed to saints. Not all protestants are like Joel Olsteen. Not all of us attend a mega church. Plenty of us do take weekly comunion and take our faith very seriously as well as our doctrine.
Thank you. I'm not feeling christian fellowship and brotherly love in this content at the moment. Jesus is all I need.
@@MR-dl8js Jesus may be all you need, but how do you attain him?
Baptists are not protestant
@TheZMom_Emmelia All we need to do is repent and believe. True belief will produce good fruit, works, and a peace that surpasses all understanding. His yolk is easy and his burden is light. The Christian life can be difficult if we allow it to be difficult, but there's grace for all of us who keep the faith, make an effort to obey him, and endure til the very end.
@MR-dl8js You're welcome. I don't know why I even bother watching these videos. They pop up in my feed, and I get curious even though I already have an idea where it's going. There's a lot of ignorance among church goers/leaders no matter what denomination it is. I grew up in Kentucky. The Catholieve that I was exposed to their didn't even remotely resemble Jesus or Christianity. I've lived in Missouri for the past 4ish years and the Catholics here are a little different in a better way. They're a little more sincere, but they still believe that they are the only "true church". Evangelicals have a big share of their own crazies, but it's like these people see Kenneth Copeland, Joel Olsteen, Stephen Furtick, etc, and assume that we're all charismatics or mega churches, or maybe we go to some small snake handling church where we speak in tongues. Before I started meeting real Catholics I thought they all thought the Pope was the pinnacle of righteous authority and he was infallible. Thank God many Catholics have the common sense to know that isn't true.
I don't know how big of a deal it is, maybe I'm just too sensitive. I hear stuff like this and it feels like a personal attack to people I know who have risked everything to further the kingdom of God. I study the scripture and I'm not necessarily even a sola scriptura kind of guy. But at the same time if I read something that's antithetical to the Bible I will reject it immediately. That's why I'm in my non-denom camp.
Thank you for this practical answer. I've been examining Orthodoxy after years of struggling to find logical answers to problems in Protestantism (eg., sola fide not agreeing with St. James).
Have you read any Protestant commentaries on James?
See the Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion. Specifically, the twelfth article.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Yes. The Calvinist ones suggest the "P" in TULIP is shown in James as Perseverance+Preservation, which seems to me to sidestep the problem of sola fide, not to mention that Luther wanted St. James's epistle removed from his Canon.
@@coppernicklaus245 Imo, the reformed commentaries on James harmonize well with the relationship between faith and works. And as much as I dislike Luther, I think historians are pretty clear and honest that his remarks on James do not mean he did not believe in its inspiration. That’s just me tho. And I’m young and ignorant of a lot. Still hearing
@thomasthellamas9886 Fair enough. Presbyterians (PCA anyway) get pretty close to Orthodox positions, and the ministers I've talked to (when I've attended their churches) have agreed that faith without works is dead, so at least they're not in the easy-believism non-denom camp.
Father, maybe you can make a video with a list of book recommendations on different topics (which also deals with certain criticisms people bring up), and maybe point people to other edifying Orthodox channels so that people might learn more
Thank you Father Truebenbach ☦
May the Lord keep you and bless you 🙏
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner
Jesus prayer we Catholic s say it everyday
I am "orthodox" to that prayer. Not to a group of men (or women).
As a Greek, I'm ashamed that I haven't been to the Holy Mountain of Athos to visit an Elder. These people are not only seriously learned, but filled to the brim with the Grace of our Lord. I have to one day, rather much sooner than later.
I'm only a few hours away from the capital of Athens where I live. But thank God there's a monastery right next to my house.
From protestant and catholic inquirer to orthodox catechumen 🥰
sounds like you need to be saved instead of trying to find a group of people who cannot actually do anything to save you.
Some Protestants in the chat are very open to your words and suggestions and then there’s some that have closed minds. But the fact they are watching your fabulous, informative video says everything you need to know. God Bless you Fr Paul.
Read Everyday Saints!! That book is one reason I converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism. That book is full of saints all in one monastery!
That reason makes no sense as the Catholic Church has many monasteries and saints. I hope your Orthodox knowledge is better than your Catholic.
The best book
@@averh6347 Many monasteries and many saints for sure! But not at the clairvoyant level of Orthodox saints. Padre Pio was one I could think of.
@@tranquilenvironments I googled: Nearly 30% of all Catholic saints actually possessed some paranormal powers or had psychic experiences!
That’s the fascinating conclusion of former top parapsychologist Rhea White, who passed away in 2007.
The researcher studied the lives of 2,532 Catholic saints and found that 676 of them - an incredible 27% - had some sort of psychic experiences.
Her study revealed that 310 saints actually performed miracles and 55 had ESP.
At least 31 saints were clairvoyants and 24 had telepathic experiences, 20 could read minds and 32 predicted their own deaths.
Others had the uncanny power to be in two places at the same time, while some had the eerie ability to speak and understand languages they’d never heard before.
Whoever is out there , If your core believes ( and doctrines ) are according to the Bible itself , You are my brother or sister in Christ
Regardless your denomination or method of worship
Unfortunately that means Catholics nor Orthodoxists are your brothers/sisters in Christ, as they do not follow doctrine according the Bible, but according to their own manmade customs.
@@networknomad5600 The core beliefs are still Biblical. Resurrection, Trinity, etc.
@@networknomad5600the entire book of Leviticus is God the Father instructing humanity on worship through His “Angel”, God the Word (Jesus Christ). The Old Testament is not suddenly useless because of the New Testament, in fact you would think that sola scriptura would lead people to respect the prophecy of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ our Lord fulfills the prophecies of the old testament, but he does not eliminate them. I would argue that even the Holy Scriptures are “man made traditions,” since they were written by the apostles and prophets of the church, and compiled by the church. Our Lord founded a church, not a bible, and He says “the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Peter writes, “hold fast to the traditions you were taught.” The line of succession from the apostles until now is of utmost importance, because The Lord entrusted his church to them, and thus without the church hierarchy, you are not a part of the church our most holy Lord founded. Of course, you are still Loved by the Lord, and His grace is still with you, wether or not you are Orthodox, but the fact remains that these traditions are neither man made, nor meaningless, and in fact it is the other denominations that have fallen away.
All of our stuff comes directly from the bible. If you doubt this, listen to The Whole Council of God podcast.@networknomad5600
@@networknomad5600 not making statues or drawings doesn't refer to only God, Jesus, Mary and Saints, but also to people and animals. This fucking means that even sculptures of the David or Darwins's diary are heretic. If i draw a bird on my notebook, i'm sinning. Also, idk if you know, but making statues is NOT prohibited, but instead God told us to make them!
Didn't God told Moses to build a copper snake, that whoever got bit will be saved by its vision? Didn't God told Israel to build Cherubs on the Ark, on it's veil, and on the tent that hosted it? Aren't they celestial beings?
See? We are indeed following what God said. God did NOT prohibited the making nor the cult of Icons.
Amen. God bless you. Glory to Christ.
Thank you father, for contributing to this online space
Protestant here to leave my 5 words!
I don’t argue brotherly love!
Walk your Faith in Christ!
I LOVE my Orthodox brothers and sisters and I learn so much from them.
My “St. Paisios” is One Greater! He is Jesus Christ! My grandpa was an amazing Christian man that gave me an “icon” if you will, to see with my eyes to base my life off of which has given me motivation to give my life to God. I would NEVER disrespect your icons, Saints. I’m thankful they have led many to Christ. I’ve been inwardly transformed and know many that are not “of the world” any longer. I am and know many that are “foreigners in the land”. I have seen miracles and have even had miracles worked by the Holy Spirit through my own hands with witnesses, COMPLETELY for edification and not of my own doing.
Like the Orthodox say, “we know where God is, we don’t know where He isn’t” I’m here to say the same!
With all love and respect!
Well said as by the grace of God I'm being that grandpa to my own grandchildren.
Well said! You are "Orthodox", but outside Christ's one true Church.
Come home!
@ I would LOVE to and plan to but the youth programs found outside the Orthodox Church, at least in my area, are far superior. I have the wherewithal to seek the fullness of Christ on my own but it’s important to me that my very young children are brought up enjoying going to church on Sundays. It’s hard to make a 3 year old stand still and quiet for 2 hours and I don’t want to be so hard on her that she no longer wants to go to church.
@@GMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGMGM I'm curious what makes you say that this guy is "outside Christ's one true Church"?
@@MrMann-gt1eh 3 things. 1. Orthodoxy does not say this. You may be able to find someone who says they're orthodox who will say it. But this is not a position of the Orthodox Church. 2. Church is not for Sundays. 3. 3 year olds should be in church and there's no need to stand still. There's a remarkable amount of pride in everything you're saying. Sadly you can't see it. How do I know. I'm a pride filled man who lacks humility. I know exactly what it looks and sounds like. The fact that you cannot go into the history of your fractured secular church and find the saints father is talking about should lead you to questions not answers. I say this with the Brotherly Love you speak of. Just agreeing with you, just ignoring your egregious error would not be love of any sort. In fact that would be a form of modern moral relativism that does not exist in Christ's Church. May God grant you the grace to overcome your excuses and find your way home.
I shivered when i heard your 5-word response. Yes. And most of us in our hearts have probably had an unspoken thought very similar to that.
Of course it will fall on some ears that are deaf, but those who actually hear your sentence and this video will pay at least some attention. We will easily see here who refuses to hear. The struggles that the monk Paisios went through to become our dear Saint Paisios are challenges for any of us. We will read comments from those who don't intend to even try. Sad, but true.
Thank you, Fr. Paul. Thank you, dear St. Paisios and all the saints who rejoice with you.
[L/Mary on my husband's phone.]
Protestant here. I love the online discourse that has sprung up more fervently in recent years, as it gives a lot of food for thought and meditation. I have deeply considered orthodoxy for myself, and find that there are a lot of amazing things to praise but also a few integral points that bring the whole structure down (in my own arrogant eyes, of course). That said, I truly believe (and I get to as a protestant) that my friends in orthodoxy are as within the body of Christ as my friends in other traditions. I'm grateful for the dialog, because it's made me certain that no church can save me, but only Yeshua the Messiah.
You don't have to be arrogant to see the blatant flaws within Eastern "Orthodoxy".
Hmmm… I was born again 30 years ago. I am a Bible believer and a Jesus follower. The examples this gentleman gave as a type of “proof is in the pudding” Are the same experiences I had at my grandmother’s Pentecostal church when I was newly saved. A special guest there had a “word of knowledge“ for many people there including me. Just like you described about the saint in this video. So if that is one of your main proofs that orthodoxy is true, it’s a bit of a failure. The difference between the “average” Bible believing church Entity and the orthodox church is that we don’t feel that we need to elevate people that we see following Christ. That is why there aren’t books about people who have been crowned as Saints by an organization. However, over my Christian life, I have met such people. The woman that was crucial and me coming to Christ, that God used amazingly when I first met her it was like looking in the face of love. And I remember thinking, as a sinner, wow, this woman loves me and she doesn’t even know me. And if she did know me, she certainly wouldn’t love me because I am quite wretched. But no book has been written about her and yet her funeral was overflowing with people whom God had touched through her throughout her long life. So your 5-word “proof” statement for orthodoxy Falls very short. The Bible itself, the very words of God, calls All born again believers Saints and priest and Kings. We don’t need man stamp of approval because we have God stamp of approval because the complete work of the Lord Jesus Christ shedding his blood on the cross and then applying that payment to my was complete and thorough and enough.
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2 Corinthians 5:21
" I am a Bible believer and a Jesus follower." Your bible makes numerous contradicting and hypocritical claims my friend. How do you differentiate between what is truthful from what is fantasy? Thanks and good luck.
@@TboneWTF I assume you know that a significant part of the Bible is poetry, which by nature is not and not intended to be literally true.
@@samlee5016 I think you story about your godly friend is lively. No need to have semantic word games… or to get exercised over vocabulary choices. We call godly people Saints to distinguish them from ordinary ‘saints’ like us..,like you we know they are different. It’s a matter of honoring them like I see you honor your friend. And like you probably ado, we think of them and try to use their lives to model our own. They aren’t given a stamp of approval (at least in Orthodoxy) so much as lived as the living person they are.
We are not all priests in the way you use it. Yes, we have priestly roles in that we are called to live godly lives and spread the gospel. But ordained priests, like pastors, have certain obligations and are sanctified by the church to fulfill them. Presiding over sacraments for one thing…communion, marriage, death, confession. Not just any old church member does those things unless no priest/pastor is available.
@@marjoriezimmerman3969 " a significant part of the Bible is poetry, which by nature is not and not intended to be literally true." I'd say 99 percent of what the bible claims is false. So how do you differentiate between what is the poetry and what isn't? What method do you recommend that I use my dear? If you can't isn't it best to read the bible as ALL poetry? Thanks.
Lovely😅lively…why not both?!?
I was baptized 2 weeks ago in our old town of Nitra, becaoming orthodox wasnt my plan, it was plan of our Lord. Love u all brothers and sisters ☦️ Sláva Bohu
Слава Тебе Божи ☦️ 👑😇 🙏 Аминь.
Слава ☦️ Богу ! 🙏
I came to this video (as a Reformed Presbyterian preacher) with genuine interest to hear a ranking member of the EO Church give a compelling argument, but what I hear is basically this: "Look at this pious man."
And my five-word rejoinder is this: "Sir, we would see Jesus" (Jn. 12:21).
So you don't have anyone who is inspiring and apostolic-like. That's kind of telling, and its why you're losing a lot of people (like me) to the traditional Churches.
Meh, but feel free to keep living in denial. You'll keep hemorrhaging followers.
People are starving for the Sacred, the Protestant churches can't give that to them as long as coming to channels like this one and obtusely contradicting those who are trying to give you a message is all you are capable of doing.
You can see and experience Him in the face of these Saints who radiate His love & wisdom. That’s the whole point. Honestly, as a former Protestant, I encountered Jesus as a child in a dream and as I matured and met Him in the Scriptures and in my conscience, I knew the interpretive answers from my Protestant world and churches about church history and the meaning of the Scriptures were incoherent, and I was hard pressed to find any Christian who moved in the kind of grace and power of Jesus and His Apostles. That changed when I encountered Orthodoxy.
@@katydidd6321 So long as men die, only Christ can carry his Church. There are many Protestant churches which do not faithfully preach the Gospel who hemorrhage members to the EO and Catholic churches, and there are many who, like the masses in John 6, abandon Jesus for the seeming "sacred" of worldly buildings, robes, and glitter. That tells nothing but than what Scripture says in Ecclesiastes 7:29, "God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes." Of course they won't find the sacred in fog machines and worship bands, no more than it can be found in the glint and gaud of cathedrals. The power is in the Gospel of Christ: "For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18).
Isn't a bad argument worth contradicting? You seem to have no issue contradicting mine. Mine was not obtuse. Or is it obtuse to insist on the Apostle Paul's admonition to the Corinthians, "For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?" (1 Corinthians 3:4). And we might add to this list: "I follow Paisios." Is this not the spirit of partiality that James warned against? I would desire that the EO increase in members so long as they preach the Gospel faithfully. Do you gloat over professing Christian churches hemorrhaging followers? I even came to this video not to be contradictory, but to listen and hear--but all I hear is the praise of man.
But Christ's Gospel advances. I won't fault your vitriol; I'm a sinner too. You might even listen to one of my sermons on my channel and see if I am such an enemy to the Gospel as you seem to suggest in the tenor of your words.
@@BenjaminScottCampbell a ranking member? Hmm…
What we see is not a pious man. We see Christ manifested in Paisios.
@@katydidd6321I know many people who are saintly within the Reformed church, I don't see the need to trumpet them. They know who they are. They are closer to Christ than any prideful Eastern hetrodox individual.
I have never seen a protestant monk/ascetic.
I think that the Church of Sweden has nuns.
Nope all the monastics have been replaced with theologians and the monasteries have been replaced with " Bible colleges". It's ALL about the mind
The Anglican Church has monks and nuns.
Although we Anglo-Catholics are not by definition "Protestant", our bishop is a Benedictine Monk and our new priest is a Benedictine, 3rd order. I'm a Franciscan.
@@jbn668 Yes, I'm Anglo-Catholic and our bishop is a Benedictine Monk and our new priest is a Benedictine, 3rd order. I'm a Franciscan.
Father, thank you so much for this. A large part of why I am now a catechumen is the real, palpable, and utterly transformative presence of Christ I experienced within an Orthodox Christian. An imperfect, ordinary, fairly new one at that. But it was indescribable. Heavenly. Weird, in the best way. After many long conversations I converted, or am in the process thereof. But that first meeting, it was divine.
This is exciting! I am on my way as well!
@@babslevoy Me too!
"Ye shall know them by their fruit." - The Lord Jesus Christ.
The lack of healthy skepticism in the orthodox faith is a huge barrier to entry. I’ve been in rooms where everyone was convinced they were speaking in tongues of angels. B just because they thought it was real, didn’t make it theologically sound, empirically true, or even helpful to the spiritual formation of the fellowship. Hagiography is a very old practice, but it doesn’t make it an honest one. We live in a world full of mentalists, illusionists and even perhaps demonic power masquerading as miracles. Be skeptical. Most stories of modern miracles are non-falsifiable or don’t pass the smell test. Biblically, this is calling for “testing the spirits” to see if it’s from God. A good heuristic would be to ask: how is this apocryphal story, practice, or tradition related to the gospel? How does it help me experience the good news of redemption and union with Christ and share that good news with others?
Orthodoxy is united, pretty much
Protestantism is divided
There is 1 Orthodoxy, 1 Faith
There are Thousands of different Protestants!
Which Orthodoxy? The Oriental Orthodox? The Assyrian Church of the East? Old Believers? True Orthodox?
@@thomasthellamas9886 Eastern Orthodoxy is the true Church of Christ...Oriental Orthodoxy split as monophysites in the 5th century Assyrian the same,Coptic the same...Latin catholicism even more thye same..Protestants denominations even even more...Old believers are schismatics...
Wrong
Even the Russian orthodox and Greek Orthodox has excommunicated each other
So your claim that Orthodoxy is united is baseless 👍👍
@@Tstep45_qr don’t you see, it’s the Orthodox that still he agrees with that claims to be the True Church 😅
@@icxcnika2037 If you read my comment closely, you’ll notice I didn’t say anything about the word Orthodox in the other schematics names, having any value. That should be clear because 2 the groups I named don’t have the word “Orthodox” in their name. And the mere fact that I know of and can name some of those groups means I’m not entirely ignorant. But yeah. You missed my point and wrote an irrelevant paragraph in response to the point you missed lol
We have to be very careful not to get into a "we are better than you" attitude. Being a former Orthodox, and a Protestant, constant division is not of God. This is what Satan desires. I have no doubt there have been Holy men and woman in the Orthodox, RC, and Protestant faiths. To compare one is more Holy than another sets up division more than Unity. Unity is of God. I know a number of incredible Holy men who have brought millions and millions to Christ with their ministry, healing the sick and raising people from the dead. Holy Spirit filled men and women. Yes they were not called as canonized Saints but were truly amazing workers for Christ.They would have been Saints most likely if they were Orthodox. But I know this type of comparison provides more pride and less humility. Fwiw.
I'm a protestant, a Lutheran, myself. However, I find it ironic and honestly kind of stupid for a protestant to complain about division in the Church. I mean, we are the reason the Church isn't united. Technically the Roman Catholics, I guess, but I think you get my point. If we actually didn't want divisions in the Church, we would be Orthodox and try to end Protestantism.
Being in different churches is fine. You can identify yourself with a certain church and still know your salvation is faith alone. Or you could do what the disciples did and simply call yourself a Christian or follower of Christ.
The actual issue is the narrow path, knowing that you're saved by faith alone. If you don't know that, then it's useless to identify yourself with any church. You have to first go solely by scripture alone, then once you know for certainty what God has revealed to you and you've armed yourself with scripture, feel free to join any church. Now spiritually, you can win battles since you'll know if anyone tries to get you to believe anything outside of faith is your salvation, you can immediately know it's demonic and a one way ticket to hell and a subversion off of the narrow road. That's the actual issue. Not a division of churches themselves.
No
The Church is not a promoter of unity amongst those who are not part of the Church. There is not sowing of division here. We’re already divided!
@@JS_Guitar09 The Lutheran RC split is not by any means at all the first denominational split. If you knew church history, you would know that we (Lutherans) already tried to achieve communion with the EO church, and they said no. You would also know that we are also a direct descendant of the original ancient church, so why should it be on us to change? We should work together with other churches in areas we agree, and where we don't we can debate or agree to disagree.
Thank you for posting this, Father.
🙏🏻❤️☦️
Let's go saint for saint right now 😂
Lol
🤣🤣
Saint Calvin pray for us! Saint Luther pray for us! Saint Virmigli pray for us!
We let God decide who is a saint
@@DrewEric-e8zyet u would call yourself " saved ". Ironic
Father Truebenbach, pray for my father, for he is one of these protestants.
my mother too. very stubborn.
@areyoutheregoditsmedave it's a cross to bear, and may the Lord help in this bearing
In the same boat, yet not orthodox at this point. Praying God helps us through these trying difficulties. God bless you
@@natanaelsantos3924 at least my mother is supportive of my decision. a lot of people in my parish are not so fortunate.
Thank you Father, i am Orthodox Christian,from Africa and is so great to teach them the truth. Similar mre shoud be communicated in every means for protestants.
Thank you father for your testimony ,for speaking the Truth.God have mercy on us🙏Peace and Love ❤
Father, I just want to share my brief testimony with you! Back in June, I came across the video of the Protestant pastor (apologizes I forget his name) interviewing you. You were amazing, you answered so many questions I had as a non-denominational Christian. I was so grateful and amazed and excited that I sent the video to my husband to also watch before I’d even finished it. Upon finishing the video, I read through the description box and discovered your church was in the Salt Lake valley!
This may not seem too big a deal, especially since I live in Texas. However, I was leaving in a short couple of days to be visiting family in Utah. If this wasn’t a “sign” from the Lord, I don’t know what is!
I then visited your church with my husband and we were overwhelmed with so many wonderful feelings, that being relief that we immediately felt that orthodoxy was home.
We now attend a church near us back home and we are finally catechumen! 🙏🏻❤️
Not even this will be enough for the ignorant.
my family *protestants* think they are saved and think they know everything but yet it’s all from “tiktok😒”.
For the DECEIVED. Satan wants to keep humanity sick in their sins.
@@daltonmsThe solution is pretty obvious if you'd like it.
@@joehorstmann8027 explain
@daltonms They find you less interesting than tic tok, so be more interesting. Develop your speech and arguments, and make better use of tone and volume.
Powerful truth. THANK YOU, Father Paul
I wouldn't be too bothered about those types of videos. People who are seeking the truth, and something authentic, will find the right place.
Because the Holy Spirit is real. Those seeking God in spirit and in truth will find him.
Dogmatism: The tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of the other.
Some of those videos have made me more convinced that the Orthodox Church is the right one.
@@sitka49
Truth is by Nature Dogmatic. It cares not for falsehoods.
Truth is embodied in Christ.
@acekoala457 Expect what people interpret to be their truth.
Thank you for this father, it helps a lot with doubts
I really enjoyed this video and thank you for sharing it! My question as a member of one of the OG protestant groups watching this is: You ask for a representative to show that our denomination is "the one true church" around 15:58. But many protestants (like me) don't think any "denomination" is the one true church. We are all fallen here on earth and constantly have inward battles on doctrine/practice/etc. Would the 5-word response be the same to that belief? We would also believe that St. Paisios was absolutely a true servant of God, sharing the love of Christ clearly through the stories you shared. Could we say Luther was a true servant of God? Translating the bible into the local language for God's people to have the ability to read and hear his Word in their own tongue? (There are a lot of examples too in protestant believers but I'm just pulling an obvi familiar one.)
I know ppl might reply and go off on tangents that really don't pertain to what I'm asking, (it is the comment section of a religious video lol) but I'd just thought I write this to share as a comment. Very much appreciate your videos, Fr. Paul!
The Bible says to not bow down to or serve images, icons and men the way you would toward God. Why does the Orthodox Church insist upon elevating Mary and the "saints" to such high places? You say you do not worship them but the Bible does not even use the term 'worship', it say do not serve. What does serve mean, though? Well, I , and many others, would say that all the thing the Orthodox Church does it serving these men and their likenesses. This is not really even a debate, as it is clearly wrong according to the Bible. However, Orthodox tradition (which seems to trump the Bible rather than answering to it) say all of these rituals are not only good but necessary. So, I guess it is a debate, I mean, maybe I am wrong? I don't know? It's just that I read the Scriptures and then look at what the Orthodox do and it does not line up. The Bible does not teach Orthodoxy, only the Orthodox Church teaches Orthodoxy. I was open minded to Orthodoxy until I realized just how much it deviated from God's Word. But what gets me the most, is the fact that an Orthodox person does not even fully believe that he is going to heaven. We God says believe in the Son and you will be saved- he means it. We can trust God's promises implicitly. The faithful should believe with 100% certainty that he will be with God one day in the future. That is what faith is- trusting fully in the Lord. Of course there will be times of doubt- that is normal. Though, that is not what the Orthodox do, is it? The Orthodox merely hopes that by his activity in the Church he will be deemed worthy. There is a wishing but not a knowing. True faith is knowing.
The true Church is anywhere two or more believers, saints, gather because Jesus is with them. The Church is not a building or a denomination, such as Orthodox. This is what God has revealed to me through his Holy Word and his living saints, our fellow believers- other Christians. I do not mean to be mean but Orthodox Christianity is the illusion of spirituality. It all looks so very religious does it not? But what is behind that facade? Tradition? Those traditions were all written by men who had no authority. Lean on Scripture, ignore the Imperial Byzantine propaganda. To anyone who reads this, don't be mad, I am just following the convictions the Lord has place upon my heart and in my mind.
Agreed. I also don't get why they have all these images in their churches. Exodus 20 clearly states that we shouldn't create images of "anything in heaven"...they idolise saints and it's just wrong honestly.
@@Tee-lady The images add to the mystique. The gilded icon, portraits, outfits, incense- I have heard them say they are emulating the ancient Israelites or scenes from the book of Revelation. But, the ceremonies of the Israelites were part of the Law, which has been fulfilled and as for Revelation, well that is clearly prophesy and not instructions for behavior. They claim that these practices have been done since the apostles, but that is demonstrably false as the early church was believers meeting in each other's houses without gawdy, gold everywhere.
As you can see I have a lot to say. I recognize that the Orthodox have an amount of faith. I hope to kindle that faith by the grace of God. I want them to put away the worldly, man-made, unbiblical practices. I am ready to talk to anyone who will listen. I want others to love and fear the Lord, giving him his due as describe in his Holy Scripture. The Orthodox mock us protestants and non-denominational types often enough. Obviously, there are many false teachers in different denominations but we simply follow the Bible as we live by every word the proceeds from the mouth of God. We work out out faith with fear and trembling as well as love. We do not waste our efforts on worshipping, venerating, men and Mary. We, the faithful, are all saints. We can all be teachers as the Word is powerful and the Holy Spirit is with us. I want them, the Orthodox, to share the confidence that we have in Jesus's propitiation. He paid for our sins so we can have complete certainty that we will be with him in heaven. Faith is the root and good works are the fruit of the tree that represents us. Sorry I am talking your ear off, I guess I get carried away but I find it difficult to describe these idea in fewer words. Thank you for commenting and supporting me, sister in Christ Jesus our King.
The one true Church of Christ is filled with only saints, who are those written in the book of life (born again). There is no perfect denomination, although there are those that adhere to the Word of God (which is good) and those that promote heresies (not). Test the fruits. I actually find that a lot of Orthodox people do not promote much of the venerating as Catholics do, but they still do! If you steal $1, you are still a thief, even if it were more.
@@WillowLivingStreamsQA I see what you mean about some not doing things as much as others but still being just as guilty. Though not exactly the same, James 2:10 comes to mind. Anyways, what you said is very true and a great point. Also, all of us, God's children that is, are saints. 😇
@@derekdavis3004 amen!
I have a similar one: Know them by their fruit.
Sometimes people need to hear something in a different way.
Father when they speak against Orthodoxy, they are afraid of losing their congregation to the Orthodox Church.
First, thank you, Father, for all your videos. They are a true blessing and an invaluable resource. I deeply appreciate the time and effort you invest in sharing the richness of Orthodoxy with others.
I write this as a convert to Orthodoxy from evangelical Protestantism (I was welcomed into the Church in 2021). When I was an inquirer, a priest said something very similar to the crux of your video: "You can tell that Orthodoxy is true because the Church has produced saints in every age and continues to do so. Where are the Protestant saints?"
While I am passionately Orthodox and have an icon of St. Paisios on my wall, this argument rang hollow with me at the time and, to some extent, still does. I say this not as a criticism of Orthodoxy, but as an observation about the argument itself.
Protestants don’t think of “saints” in the same way that Orthodox Christians do. They don’t formally classify people as saints, nor do they have a process of canonization. However, this does not mean that Protestantism lacks individuals who have lived extraordinary lives of Christlikeness. In fact, many Protestants are deeply inspired by figures such as Gladys Aylward, William Carey, Adoniram Judson, George Müller, David Livingstone, Hudson Taylor, Lottie Moon, C.T. Studd, Corrie ten Boom, Richard Wurmbrand, and Brother Andrew. While their lives may not meet the Orthodox understanding of holiness or sanctity, they have profoundly impacted the world for Christ, often in ways that involve miraculous events.
This is not to equate these individuals with saints like St. Paisios, but to highlight that dismissing the contributions of Protestant heroes of the faith may come across as a lack of understanding or respect. For someone exploring Orthodoxy, this approach can feel like a blind spot, as it did for me when I first encountered it.
A second point to consider is the Protestant emphasis on evangelism. While Orthodoxy excels in preserving the fullness of the faith, Protestantism has been deeply committed to spreading the Gospel, often at great personal cost. The growth of the underground church in places like China (estimated at 300 million Christians) and Iraq is largely the result of Protestant missionary efforts. Organizations like "Voice of the Martyrs" regularly document the sacrifices of Protestant Christians who risk and often lose their lives for their faith.
From a Protestant perspective, this raises a natural question: “If Orthodoxy is the one true Church, why isn’t it leading the charge in evangelizing the world?” This tension can make the “Orthodoxy produces saints” argument less compelling to someone with a Protestant background. For many, the examples of Protestants giving their lives in service to the Gospel are just as moving as the lives of Orthodox saints.
I believe there is a better approach to this conversation. Instead of comparing and potentially diminishing Protestant heroes of the faith, we could emphasize the unique treasures of Orthodoxy, such as the unbroken tradition, the depth of its theology, and the beauty of its liturgical life. These are what drew me to the Church, even when certain arguments didn’t resonate.
I share this perspective with humility and gratitude for your work, Father. I hope my words are received in the spirit they are intended: not as a quarrel, but as a constructive reflection from someone who has walked this path.
For anyone doubting or outright challenging the icons in man, consider this. What was the default state of man and what did Christ work to return to us? If you say “endowed with the Holy Spirit,” and “reformed in the perfect image of God,” then bingo! Jesus tells His apostles that they will become “complete” or perfect when completely obedient to His will.
The Trinity makes zero sense if this hasn’t happened with saints. The Holy Spirit, without a perfected host, becomes an intangible force that periodically spurs people on and then retreats to quietude. If the church is truly comprised of saints who have been remade in God’s image (conformed to the image of Christ anyone?), then Protestantism is truly lacking and ineffective.
I searched for so long for someone to regard as Christ in accordance with the early believers, and found none. My FIRST encounter with Orthodoxy resulted in such. My priest knows and cares for His flock by name, only asks for “tithes” in assisting the needy, and never rushes his sheep out of his presence for fear of missing Sunday brunch. He is a many who prays for himself and others during and after every service.
Go and make disciples, anyone?
Greater things than these will you do, anyone?
Be holy for I am holy, anyone?
Glory to God
I love your videos!
@ blessings my brother, Glory to God!
He's my Patron Saint.
Father, thank you for posting! While I understand that there are fruits of the Holy Spirit in people who commit to a God-seeking life, I personally have concerns regarding certain Orthodox teachings and practices, mainly:
1) The 2nd Council of Nicaea anathemization of those who refuse to perform proskynesis (affectionately venerate) icons. I don't see why such practices are made mandatory under threat of anathema. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
2) The soteriological agency assigned to Mary in Orthodox hymnography (and in St Gregory Palamas' writings). She is portrayed as someone who is to intercede to her Son for us, as though Christ is unwilling to forgive us while she is more merciful. There are more exaltations which I cannot name specifically, which grant her great soteriological agency.
Of course you must tend to your parish, but generally more content and discussions on these topics would go a long way. Other topics like the mysteries, monasticism, the saints etc in my view are less drastic than the above (for lack of a better word). Thanks again for your time and prayers Father!
The reason we venerate icons is to a form of worship with our bodies. We can’t touch Christ at the moment, but we can kiss his icon as a young child kissed a picture of his father. To show love, affection, obedience, etc.
If you reject that you’re saying veneration of icons is wrong which means worship of Christ with our bodies and matter He created is immoral. Which just destroys the salvific work of Christ. Christ didn’t just save us but all creation from death.
@@Damascene749 Thanks for answering! I'm not saying it's wrong (as long as we direct our worship towards God), I'm saying that there is no foundation for non-iconodules (not iconoclasts) to be anathematized.
We have to be careful not to worship matter - be it sanctified, it's still separate from God. I'm not saying that iconodules (Orthodox, Catholics etc) do this, just that you said "worship of Christ and matter He created". I assume you don't worship matter and perhaps you meant venerate.
Going a bit off topic of your reply, but I'd like to bring up again my concern of the (hyper)veneration of the Theotokos ending up being more than duila (veneration). I looked at the akathyst of the Theotokos on the OCA website. She is often attributed (soteriological) powers that should be attributed to God only. This happens quite a lot suggesting it goes beyond just poetry but is earnestly meant. She is called restoration of Adam, remover of the stain of sin, cause of deification (ikos 1), salvation of my sould (ikos 3) etc. There is also the account of St. Gregory Palamas that I am yet to study. Even if all this is aimed towards hyperveneration or poetic honoring of Virgin Mary, it can lead towards worship, given all the god-like powers she is attributed. I suppose one can say that God gave her these powers (which is a sepparate discussion), but then where does that leave Christ if she is the salvation etc.?
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these topics, I did look at the akathyst quite hastefully. I am also in the middle of reading pastor Joshua Schooping's book on Orthodoxy, where these issues are brought up. I can't find a way to refute what he said so far. Thanks again for your time and engagement!
Sorry, my words were imprecise, I meant to say we worship Christ, with our bodies and *with*matter. Not that we worship the matter itself, how can we it’s a creature, but creation can be sanctified in the case of Christs garments which we would direct proper veneration towards it by kissing it or kneeling in front of it as a representative that we recognize Grace is present in His garments (which itself is biblical)
As far as the Theotokos case is concerned, she has a special closeness to Christ as His own mother to make intercession. Honouring Christ Mother translates to honouring Him because when we speak of her, it’s always in the context of her repentance, virginity etc, she is not worshipped as God.
But she is higher than all creation and after Christ (God) we call upon her name so that she can bestow the gifts of grace she received from her Son.
Take a healing for example, the Saint who heals does the work of healing himself but the source of the healing and grace is Christ. Similarly, she can save us by interceding but the source of Salvation is Christ. I hope that helps. May the Holy Trinity help me as to not say anything outside of the faith!
And btw. In Orthodoxy, we become God’s children by grace and essentially this means we become god by participation (not by essence). Even Christ rebukes the Pharisee when they doubt this doctrine he quotes the psalms which call the children of God “sons of God”. We become higher than the angels and principalities, higher than the seraphim and cherubim, that is a much greater claim than one any Protestants make (from my experience)
This is a great video, and I had no idea about any of this. There’s always bad eggs, disbelief, and stubbornness in any denomination, but when someone humbles and allows themselves to be used by God, you get these awesome stories of God working through people to ultimately save lost sinners. Great view into your experience and theology.
Fascinating! Particularly that you so confidently assert that "there's no way you're gonna have someone like [St Paisios]" in protestant circles.
For me, the litmus test of Christian maturity has ALWAYS been the fruit of our lives. A good tree produces good fruit, simple as that. A life that produces fruit (characer-fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5) and/or maturing of the believers around you (Eph 4) and/or non-believers coming to faith and/or miracles being done by God in your life (End of Acts 4 or 1. cor 4)) is the guide by which we judge those who are worth following/listening to.
As for the specific challenge you present, I could give you:
-John G. Lake (led a Christian home of healing in Spokane, WA which saw thousands of medically documented healings, and lived by faith as a missionary in South Africa for many years, not fearing Ebola or any disease)
-Rees Howells (was led through the Scriptures together with the Holy Spirit, turned the tides of WW2 through prayers, and bore the troubles of hundreds of people in intercession until they had their breakthrough)
-George Müller (led an orphanage from an old age and saw untold financial miracles without ever sharing his need with anyone but God, after all this he was healed by God from crippling seasickness to travel the world preaching the Good News)
All these have audiobooks out for free on youtube, or downloadable transcripts of preaching or biographies out on the web. I could also suggest getting the book "God's Generals" which chronicles several more "protestant saints", if you will, from the last couple centuries.
If you would like contemporary saints, I would show you to:
-Heidi and Rolland Baker who travelled to Mozambique with little money, no church support to see if the Sermon on the Mount was enough. Their work has saved hundreds of thousands of orphans from the streets, seen dead-raisings, multiplication of food, supernatural language acquisition, just like what we read in the New Testament!
-Dan Mohler who lives a humble, simple life as a pastor and preacher but has all the hallmarks and stories of the kind of life St. Paisios lives. He came to know the lord well into his adult years and repented from being an adulterer and fake christian to falling in love with Jesus and the truth of Scripture.
-Several people I know personally as well! Norwegians, Americans, Indians, who are preaching the gospel, living holy lives, seeing miracles on a weekly basis, loving the Scriptures and invading this dark world with the Light of Jesus!
I'm not surprised there are EO saints. I am surprised you make these claims while apparently having researched so little :)
Peace be with you!
I have had a similar argument against Protestantism. If your faith is the fullness of the faith, where are your saints? We don't judge a gym because it has some overweight people inside, but we might laud one that produces a champion body builder.
Wow. Billy Graham. John Bunyan. Charles Spurgeon. Difference is they don't call them saints. Paul in the Bible calls all believers saints, not just the big dogs. Try listening to the other side of this argument.
@Jonahch2v9 lightweights
@@noahjohnson2611 Well, they did and continue to bring thousands to Christ through their actions and writings, but maybe that doesn't impress you.
@Jonahch2v9 not in comparison.
This isn’t really a good argument, as God can work through anything to bring souls to Himself. Further, we don’t know that the conversions are real. How many people on this planet claim to be Christian and yet are obviously not?
The 5-Word response was terrible. I would give a one word response, heresy. You have very poor exegesis. (1 Cor 3) For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? This sounds exactly like the same sin you are positing, "show me your _______ (fill in the blank with a persons name).
Secondly, all God's people are saints. Paul wrote to living saints in Ephesus, Corinth, and the other churches. Saints are those that are born again by the sovereign regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Secondly, yes the Apostles were a special group of people. (Eph 2:19-20) "so then you are no longer strangers and aliens,[d] but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone" The church was built upon Christ who is the rock, the cornerstone (not Peter), and the words the Apostles spoke (Scripture) are the foundation of the church. There can be no others like them, because the foundation has already been built. If others were or are equal to them, then their words would need to be put into the Bible as Scripture. The Canon in closed.
Finally, the greatest miracle is not things like Jesus turning water to wine or the like, but rather turning sinners into saints (again not a special class of Christians). All Christians are saints, but not all that profess Christ are Christians (Matt 7:21-23). The "Orthodox" lean heavily on the church fathers, but never acknowledge many church fathers held to sola scriptura, and sola fide. Orthodoxy may very very traditional, but they are not very biblical.
Very well said. What I have seen is that when given all of these proofs through scriptura, Orthodox will simply claim sola scriptura is false, and their history will override any argument made. They claim to be the ones who assembled the Bible we have today and to have the only authority to interpret it. Simply put, Orthodox believers cannot bring themselves to be humble enough to have an honest conversation about these things, because you know, they are better than everyone else of course. "My guy is better....according to...us!".
@@easytiger35 The problem that the Orthodox and Catholics have is that they are unable to separate the Church from church-like organizations, just lumping them all together as "Protestant". Some churches teach truth, consistent with the Word and substantively compatible with small-o orthodoxy. Others, like Northpoint or Saddleback, are merely church-like organizations, who lead the lost further astray.
Catholics too! Same feces, different color.
@@easytiger35 There is no "sola scriptura". Words _always_ require an interpreter, especially when they have been translated multiple times and preserved for thousands of years. What better interpreter than a church that has kept to its traditions?
I will start my argument with an ad hominem: you seem very prideful and arrogant. In addition, your claims are weak.
No one said anybody is "following" a particular saint more than they would be following Jesus. There are no churches that I know of that have a particular saint who is used to replace Jesus. Saints are brothers and ancestors whose examples we can use to deal with the ever-changing world around us. Your point that everybody is a saint may be valid, but it's pointless semantics and whataboutism. If everybody indeed is a saint, then why even have a priest? You know just as well as I do that everybody adheres to the word in different capacities. People themselves will admit that. We have eyes to see. For you to come in and say "everybody is the same in the end" is really just a bad faith pseudo-argument aimed at crushing dissent instead of allowing for discourse. Let's use the word "church fathers" instead. Are you happy now?
The canon may be closed but the church is a living congregation, not a dead pile of dust. In case you haven't noticed, the world isn't the same as it was 2000 years ago. For this reason alone we need to interpret the canon, sometimes in significant ways. The Bible isn't unequivocal in various areas of human life, even if you personally think so - as you seem to believe you have the absolute authority to interpret. Fine. Be a priest then, start a new church, if you haven't already. Maybe you are an authority - I don't know. Though I do wonder how you are going to justify teaching anybody else as "all Christians are saints anyway".
Fr. Truebenbach literally explaining the teaching "know them by their fruits" and you then calling the Orthodox unbiblical is just the cherry on top.
Yeah just because you're ignorant of the Protestant saints who have died and bled and suffered for Christ doesn't actually mean they don't exist, "Father".
Anyone willing to die for Christ is noticed by Him. That's not being disputed.
The Life of Saint Piasios is an example of the kind of fruit God produces in someone's life through the Church He's provided for people.
@ Protestants have that as well, we just don’t make idols out of them and relentlessly study their lives. Again, your failure to see their fruits and righteous deeds don’t constitute a failure on our part
@@ExpiditionWild I was protestant for most of my life. They don't produce saints. They have great scholars and speakers. they're even kind and beautiful all the same! I also admire the sincerity and intensity of my friends. But that doesn't mean what they believe is true. A saint is something truly unique to the Church. They're people who's likeness has been restored the most out of the rest of us. God uses them to encourage people.
The Church celebrates it's heroes. Idolatry is treating a created thing as absolute. Our relationship with the saints has absolutely nothing to do with idol worship. We don't see saints as absolute authority above God let alone paint and wood. The Church has thoroughly processed this issue. Please read about it. Back during the great iconoclasm of the 8th century people were either rejecting the icon or they were worshipping them as idols.
The Church had a council addressing both problems. We're not ignorant about idolatry. I wish more people understood this which is why I mention it.
Protestants read the Bible that speak of saints and their lives. The Church being the living faith still produces those people.
@ This is serious calumny against Protestants. You don’t have a monopoly on being Christian. Protestants have died by the thousands for their faith. You look that up, don’t tell me about iconoclasm while you spit on Protestants
@@ExpiditionWild
"We just don't make Idols out of them"
I was Protestant and this is very untrue. Many people I knew Worshipped at the altar of whatever Pastor they happened to like or whatever Denomination was telling them what they wanted to hear, and I was guilty of that too.
The issue is within Evangelical Protestantism we are finding problems of sexual abuse covering them up and then pulling the rug out after the perpetrator has died. No repentance, no opportunities for such and even if someone was caught out they would take a six month "Retreat" and come back like nothing happened.
Growing up Protestant I was not raised with the ceremonial practices (other than the lords supper) tied in the Orthodox Church. I find it hard to see the necessity of many practices but having watched many videos recently from the orthodox perspective on things such as fasting and prayer I have a deep respect for you guys as these were not stressed nearly as much in the Protestant setting I knew. Despite all this we should be a united church under the authority of Jesus Christ and seek to build each other up and not destroy. God bless.
I am not Orthodox (Anglican) and I find that the rituals (liturgy) shape me and my church. Everything that we do in the service has meaning beyond itself. Whether we bow when we say the name of Jesus (practiced in Heaven), kneel when we pray (practiced in Heaven), eat weekly of Christ’s Body and Blood (feasting at the Heavenly banquet), we are doing on earth what is done in Heaven. Blessings.
@@Apriluser I have seen different church "tours" so to speak on youtube channels and one time it was an egyptian coptic church (I think that was the name). Now, I thought the different practices, rituals, and their unique hymns to their particular region were awesome. BUT the priest there made it VERY clear that everything was symbolic. He emphasized the symbolic reference to the actual scripture and did not put any actual weight into the rituals themselves. I can get behind that, but Orthodox and Catholic people seem to claim these rituals and observations are necessary for salvation, and are much more than just symbolic.
Thats where Orthodox differs from any protestant branch the most. To put it simply, there is no belief in the solas in orthodoxy. Sola fide and sola scriptura are central to being a Christian. Keeping Christ in the very center of everything and not other humans, pictures, and rituals.
Christ is absolutely at the center of Orthodoxy, you simply don’t know that because you haven’t experienced it. Orthodox Christians are taught to pray ceaselessly the Jesus prayer- Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me. So for an Orthodox Christian, this is the thought and desire they carry in their heart at all times! Please stop saying things about which you are ignorant.
@@fujikokun Im sorry, but you will need to give a bit more understanding of the centrality of Christ than telling me you say "the Jesus prayer" which is just a simple phrase that is always on the heart and mind of believers. Here is how you keep proving my point...you say, "we are taught to say this, pray this, do this, go here, go there, pray to this person, that person, etc" and no where do I ever hear the message of the gospel itself.
@@easytiger35 all I can tell you is that perhaps you should study Orthodoxy and visit a church before you judge. The gospel is central to everything we believe. We have rules, prayer, fasting, we ask for the prayers of saints, not because they save us, but because they help to heal us and allow Christ more into our heart. We seek to love Christ and follow him in everything we do. We absolutely know that we are saved by grace through faith. We believe faith cannot be a dead faith but must be an active faith. We take Christ at his word when He says “deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me.” That if we do not seek to do this daily, our faith is dead.
To me there are two responses:
1) where are your saints?
2) on whose authority do you believe what you believe, and why?
On the authority of the Bible
@@thomasthellamas9886 *your personal interpretation of the incomplete Protestant Bible*.
^Fixed it for you
@@thomasthellamas9886 Authority of the Bible is the Church which established the Canonical books that compile the Bible...wake up...who told u whcih books are authentic? the Church so this is the authority not the Bible
@@Dropkicksmurphie everyone here has an epistemology reducible to personal interpretation. I’m just open about it and trying to get it as close to Gods direct Word as I can. As for the rest. I don’t concede
@@evans3922 By what standard does any individual at any time know what is God breathed or not? I’m not talking about you and me, but rather those who you believe canonized the 79 books. How did they know what was and wasn’t God breathed?
To me it sounds that Orthodoxy is in the Protestants’ radar because they are finally feeling threatened by it. And they should feel threatened because their time has come to become obliterated as their own adherents are leaving in droves and are joining Orthodoxy.
I’m kind of happy about this.
No not even close.
Well then it would be the opposite since I have never seen protestants complained about Orthodoxy at all, but in every single comment section of Christian videos on Instagram/TikTok it is full catholics and orthodox hating. Protestants see ALL Christians as something beautiful, while catholics and orthodox are too busy fighting with all the other denominations sadly.
America will probably go full Atheist, and it is, before coming to Orthodoxy.
That is the biggest hurdle for Mission, the Heresy was here first.
There are more Pentecostals alone than EOs.
EOs have declined from 20% of global Christians in 1900 to 12%. And birth rates are collapsing in their heartlands in Eastern Europe.
@@clivejungle6999
This doesn't make Pentecostalism true. Else we would all be Arians.
Also what happened in the 20th Century with Orthodoxy? Oh yeah. The second largest Genocide of the Century.
The idea that we have to pick one branch of "true Christianity" (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) is ridiculous. It produces an unflattering defensiveness that is unbecoming of people who claim to have faith.
@MattStemp
It also creates an immense sense of ecclesial anxiety for many.
I stand on the principle that if you are growing closer to God in on denomination, maybe stay there. If you're struggling and falling away, maybe think about trying something different. Do what best cultivates your faith
@@MattStemp not if you’ve actually read the text and believe it.
The true way is only one: through Christ. If you believe in Him, no matter the denomination, you're a christian. You're saved.
@@ilsignorsaruman2636 the EO is not a denomination.
And no, Muslims, Jahovahs witness and Mormons all claim Jesus Christ. Jesus, John and Paul are clear the type of Jesus and nature of the gospel presented and believed is determinative. Do not be deceived.
@@HusGoose Which text is that, exactly?
I admit, when I saw the title of this 21 minute long Orthodox video was "My 5 word response" I laughed out loud with the ironic sense of how appropriate this was.
BTW, Orthodox for almost 30 years now. I'm still preparing to complete my evening prayers unto the Lord, and hope to still be preparing when God decides they are complete.
Father Paul, I would love if you could cover something relating to oriental orthodoxy. I am coptic but am finding myself being drawn more and more toward the Eastern Orthodox Church. Even if it is a book recommendation, I don’t mind :)
I'll give you my "Saint Paisios": Padre Pio.
The guy who even the Vatican Doctors have admitted he faked his stigmata? And even the idea of Stigmata being a innovation that isn't present pre schism.
As I continued to watch the video, the more I thought of St. Padre Pio. I definitely venerate him and study his life.
I wonder if Saint Paisios would agree with this "Show me your saint" approach 🤔
Nope, doesn't count. Only Orthodox saints could be so great.
@@HoneyBadgerbtc And yet the Council of Florence shredded you.
My five words are,
"Just read the history, man." 😂
It's honestly perplexing, you can get into never ending arguments over incredibly complex issues, but its a very short message when you just read the history of Christ and slowly move forward.
Who changed, and when, is not some sort of mystery. It's all thoroughly documented.
"Jesus christ Him the same,yesterday,today and to the centuries".So by this He is not only history but today too.He is with us until the end, His grace works for us allways producing saints in every given humman era ,dew to His word"become saints because saint is my father"
God bless you Father. We we as Orthodox church are always " attacked " ? We should have the answer already,.right. My dear brother and sisters we should pray for all the lost sheeps and find their way to Jesus❤
@@LaustibiChriste33😂
@@LaustibiChriste33
I mean he could be speaking about the very physical attacks on Orthodoxy propagated by Pseudo-Protestant Governments via proxies.
yeah the orthodox we all see especially online are some of the most arrogant, prideful, hateful, demeaning people Ive ever seen claiming to follow Christ.
How do you square the theology of EO which teaches infernalism for the unsaved vs those of Clement of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, and Isaac of Syria (just to name a few) who teach Universal reconciliation in Christ (apokatastasis)? Kind of a big deal.
They were wrong. They were only speaking speculatively, not on behalf on the Church.
We go by what the Councils teach which holds the bible as the highest standard (prima scriptura). Universal salvation is completely unbiblical therefore we reject it.
Also, the Saints aren’t infalliable and can make mistakes. Not every saint was a theologian.
St Isaac was a holy ascetic and his teachings on monasticism is accepted and used while his other works and poems are not well known and his erroneous works are ignored. It’s not a big deal for us at all.
“We go by what the Councils teach”
Councils composed of men who make errors, who sin, who have agendas and who perceive Scripture different from one another. You can’t have it both ways.
I get it, we all want out respective denomination to be a nice tidy package where we can have absolute certainty on its theological and ecclesiastical matters, but that’s not how it works. If you admit that these men I mentioned were wrong then the same application must be made for the men that composed these councils. You’re rearranging the deck chairs.
Uhh. No.
Speculative theology is something that is useful but not necessary for salvation. We don’t need to know if unbaptized babies are damned or not. That is not a salvific matter, neither do we need to know if God has forgiven heretics or not etc.
What the Church teaches in Council and Synods is authoritative because otherwise you would have to say that the gates of hell prevailed over the Church, which would be to call Christ a liar.
What is the Church, it’s the pillar and ground of truth, not the bible.
Who is the Church, the bishops priests monks and laymen, not a building.
Fr, i assure you, you have no idea how much your videos helped me. May the mercy of God allow you to keep uploading these spiritual blessings, Praise to God!
My response: "What does the Bible say?" The presence of named saints is not evidence. I could respond with "Where is your Billy Graham?", but it would be just as meaningless. Results are up to God and not evidence of faithfulness.
Where did the canon of scripture come from? Who canonized the Bible you read
@@kwfinken its arrogance to assume we know what it says, we need the holy traditions which pauls tells us to keep and which the text arose oit of and was canonized by to even understand the text
You should look at what the bible says. Correct. John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Where are Billy Graham's amazing miracles? I personally haven't seen em.
1. Clickbait
2. I’m still Protestant
1. Basically dude doesn't do much research.
2. Better works? Like not touching kids?
@@traviswilson36 Lord have mercy
@@Milliwheats5621 so insightful and profound.. why are you touching kids?
While miracles are significant, scripture warns against relying on them alone as proof of divine approval (Deuteronomy 13:1-3, Matthew 24:24). Early Church Fathers, like Justin Martyr, valued prophecy and moral transformation over miracles, reminding us that signs must align with sound doctrine.
The claim that saints are exclusive to Orthodoxy is unsubstantiated by scripture or early writings. The NT emphasizes that holiness and spiritual gifts are for all believers in Christ (John 15:5-8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13). Historical figures across traditions-Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox-demonstrate that transformative holiness is not confined to one denomination.
Holiness is vital but not the sole measure of truth. Scripture balances it with adherence to sound doctrine (1 Timothy 4:16) and love for God and neighbor (Matthew 22:37-39). The Church Fathers, like Irenaeus, stressed the importance of doctrinal purity alongside sanctity.
Lastly, the challenge to "show me your Saint Paisios" risks divisiveness. Scripture calls for humility and unity among believers (Philippians 2:3-4, John 17:21). Transformed lives and spiritual fruit are visible across Christian traditions, reflecting the universal work of the Holy Spirit.
In the name of Jesus Christ, I bless you all!
My heart is growing increasingly softer towards the orthodox church and I do agree the orthodox church does a far better job of forming Christians into saints. I have always been bothered by the protestant stance on sins. To .e they either felt flippant or to the other extreme judgemental and without grace. That being said I believe this argument to be a poor one. 1) there is a terminology barrier which prevents many protestants from speaking about saints. 2) many protestant denominations do not recognize saints or at least modern saints and many have decentralized structures unable to communicate what God is doing at a local level across the world. Which means even if a true saint existed in one of these churches (and I believe they do) no one outside their community would know their name. 3) This one may come off as slightly disrespectful but I assure you it is not intended to be so. The challenge that other churches do not have saints seems a bit smug and makes it look as though you may not be eccumentally aware enough to be entering into the conversation in the first place. Off the top of my head I would name Smith Wigglesworth all sorts of miracles, the Wesley brothers were said to have prayed for ppl and raised them from the dead, William Seymour, Tommy Welchel, and I can't even begin to list the number of nameless souls who have done amazing miracles in developing nations like those in Africa and Asia. This is only to name a few and restrain the list to supernatural miracles not to mention ppl like Jonathan Daniel's or others that have laid down their lives for their faith.
I believe the orthodox church is more authentic but I would say engaging in any way in the argument of who are "real christians" and who are not is just Christians trying to judge mens souls which is a job reserved for our heavenly Father alone. Christians are strongest and most beautiful when we love rather than when we judge.
Ok. This is a response to Cessationist Southern Baptists, not Protestants
Hahaha! Yeah, I suppose so.
While cessationist Southern Baptists tend to be more theologically argumentative (and thus more visible in spaces like this), I'm not seeing a whole lot of parallels between Pentecostals and St. Paisios either (and not all cessationists are Southern Baptists, by a long shot).
Respectfully, name some protestant saint figures
@sovereigngrace9723 John Wesley comes to mind. His attempt to invigorate the Anglican church, his eucharistic evangelism, and his dedication to giving everything to the poor are all note worthy. His theology was closer to the ancient churches than most other figures in protestant circles as well. His story is what brought me into Methodism and puts me into an unenviable position within this church today. Methodists aren't what they used to be, but the core theology is there for me to act as a bridge between faith traditions and love them all.
@@sovereigngrace9723John and Charles Wesley, Count VonZinzendorf, John Bunyan, John Owen, John Knox, Jonathan Edwards, Thomas Watson, Leonard Ravenhill, Charles Spurgeon etc just to start
Cool. My ten word response. Why do I need a saint when I have God?
Why did Christ have the apostles when he only needed Himself?
@@fujikokun cause God chooses flawed men to carry out His will on earth. God could've done anything He wanted to create the catalyst for Christianity but He wanted apostles who could carry His message and provide eyewitness testimony to His return on earth. If He really wanted to, He didn't even have to come down.
Indeed, God does work through many means and people which He does not need, and are a mystery to us. I thank God for the saints, as my love for Him has grown many times over through them.
Have you read the Bible? Specifically the passage about the Church? Just asking
You’re missing the point here, brother. The fruit of the Church is that it produces holy people, that is, saints. If your “church” doesn’t produce holy people, then it isn’t bearing fruit. This is the whole point of the Christian faith…making people holy through a life in Jesus Christ.
This is a common thing I see and I agree with this, Father. I find it frustrating how often some protestants or protestant denominations will speak with any kind of authority on these topics, and even go so far as to say that Orthodoxy is wrong or has wrong beliefs. They don't realize that their entire denomination is based on separating from authority, and has separated from the church.
Protestantism HAS no authority because it willingly separated itself from it 500 years ago. The most common thing I hear from my protestant friends is "I haven't found a church I agree with yet", as if their theology is 100% correct, and as if the truth is subservient to them and not the other way around! As an ex-protestant, I also used to think and talk that way, which is why I thank God that he has led me to Orthodoxy while I am still young (I got introduced at 18, but didnt really start taking it seriously until 21).
And their source for these things is "where is X in the bible?" as if the bible was magically handed down from heaven right after Pentecost, and that the church that Jesus founded wasn't involved at all in discerning the Canon of Scripture. And as if the bible says that everything true about Christianity MUST be in the bible. (The Westminster confession isn't in the bible, neither is the "Sinner's prayer").
But like you said, arguments only show so much. The RESULTS are what truly matter, and from personal experience, I ALWAYS felt lost at sea when I was protestant. It seemed like nobody knew what was going on, and was just trying to navigate this life blind, with some vague "sense" of Christ. But now that I have found Orthodoxy (by the grace of my sister, who needs prayers), I no longer feel as lost. There is actual, good topics and teachings here in the church, as well as these examples. The protestant church has never had these figures. The protestant titans may be brilliant intellectuals, but you never hear of them being clairvoyant or being able to be in two places at near the same time. These stories, if true, are quite literally game changing. If someone truly believed these stories, there would be nothing preventing them from going into the deep end. All of their fears become irrelevant. This world is no longer the important thing, eternity becomes important. And if these stories are true, it shows us that eternity is real.
May God give us the comfort and the strength and the mercy and grace to be like him.
These stories are definitely true. Im a convert to orthodoxy too and here in Greece I have met many people who met St Paisios and recounted how he knew everything about them as soon as they met him.
I thought this was going to be about epistomology, the 5 words being "how do you know that."
“Under whose authority do you claim this” is likely a better, also short answer.
'Ooooh Loooord Just You SAVE my soul
'Oooooh Lord have MERCY on my soul..
He's got the WHOLE WORLD in His hands
He's got the WHOLE WIDE WORLD in His hands
'cause
He's The King Of Kings and The Prince of Peace
He's The King of Kings and The Prince of Peace
Oh you better trust oh oh you better believe
He ll bow every knee He ll confess..
every tongue Who the Lord is..
'Oooooh Loooord Just You SAVE my soul
'Ooooooh Lord have MERCY on my soul..
He's THEE WAAY.. LIGHT AND LIFE
He's THE ONLY WAAY.. LIGHT AND LIFE
'cause
He's The King Of Kings and The Prince of Peace
He's The King of Kings and The Prince of Peace
I've known a few 'Protestant' pastors with something like this. One was a Foursquare Gospel pastor who got described as "exuding pastorness". When people would come to the church for the first time quite often they didn't need to ask who the pastor was, they just looked at all the people and knew which of them was him -- in fact I experienced that myself my first time attending an event there; I walked in wondering how I was going to find the pastor in the large crowded room, but two steps into the room I knew which man was him without having to ask. Another was a Lutheran priest who would see right to the heart of a dispute or disagreement and speak to that core of the matter in a way that pointed people to Jesus.
“Show me your St. Paisios - you’re joking, right? As a Protestant, this is so tone-deaf to the nature of our disagreements with Orthodox, it is difficult to know where to begin. There are several possible responses, but I think I’ll go with a cheeky one - was Orthodoxy not true until the 20th century?
Actually, saying any saints name does the trick. There are many implications that come with that and though. Specifically the understanding of the Fall in the garden and how the eastern understanding is different than the western way(which Protestantism would fall into). With that, that then leads to why Christ came and the incarnation, His death, and His resurrection and the implications that come from these. A saint and what it means covers so much theological ground that most Protestants have never heard of or do not understand(not saying that you do not).
It's not so much "tone-deaf" as it is an attempt to look at the overall dispute from a different angle; see Mat. 7:15-20. Respectfully, your cheeky response shows that you haven't paid much attention to what Fr. Paul says.
The Protestant reform was done bc of the Roman Catholic Church in the west. At that time Eastern Orthodoxy was unknown by the people of the west. The Catholic Church was changing things to fit their agenda whereas the Eastern Orthodox Church remained true.
I was raised protestant. Because I have educated myself I am catecumin.
Father is not downing protestant beliefs. He is showing us the True way. The proper way to worship God.
Bro did NOT watch the video
‘You have to read the books’ is a losing argument
* cough * cough* Gavin Ortlund needs to see this... But...if it's not in the bible... He won't believe it... Have mercy on Him Lord God.
What a uneducated comment
@traviswilson36 Absolutely.
He will believe it! He’s not blind to the virtues of Orthodox Christianity and deeply respects different expressions. However, he believes the substance is Christ, and the expression is not. Even so, Protestantism has a notable list of saints that would be hard to argue against.
I believe in all the miracles that come from these holy fathers. But what’s interesting is that I have seen many miracles myself. They prophetic grace works regularly in my life. So this doesn’t move me any close to orthodoxy. It just shows that the Spirit isn’t confined to denominational and cultural barriers.
Orthodoxy is great, but your defence of 8th century Byzantine religio-politics is bizarre.
Your point that the works of Pentecost were never restricted to the New Testament is spot on - but it is an argument that supports Pentecostals and Charismatics more than it does the Orthodox.
Take a Pentecostal leader like Smith Wigglesworth. The weightiness of the Holy Spirit was so heavy upon him that he could simply sit next to a Catholic priest on a train and, without a word exchanged, the man turn to him and say, "Sir, you convict me of my sin," and the revival breaks out over the entire train. He and his also performed healing, both through the laying on of hands and through praying over handkerchiefs which were sent to those who needed them.
He was a 20th century example, but I have been to Charismatic meetings where spirits were driven out, healings occurred, and the miraculous became normal. Pentecost is indeed still for today.
I've had that feeling of grace when I visited St Porphyrios' cell at the nun's monastery outside Athens. Overwhelming.
As a recent convert to Orthodoxy originally from Evangelical churches. I find it draining the debating between the sides. Let us not forget Christ is our lord
Amen. But to be fair (former evangelical and now Anglican) the EOC and the Roman church tell other Christians that they are the true church. It’s challenging to be charitable with those strongly-held beliefs. I appreciate that the Anglicans don’t express that kind of exclusivity.
@@Apriluser they think the true church is like handing over some banner in a race because of its historical link. The present so called true church is only as old as it’s present members!
@@Apriluser do you have blue eyes? Do you call them brown? If you really believe your daughter is your daughter or is it negotiable?
@@marjoriezimmerman3969 if I use the same example:
Do you believe that salvation is for the Jews alone? Jews believed it was for them and not the gentiles so surely it is only for the Jews....
@ Jews had a narrow, ethnocentric view of what a messiah was to be…including a great civic or military leader. And what was Israel? A genetically related bunch of clans worshipping the same gid? No, it included many who were not genetically related. Regardless of what their parochial view was, Pentecost made it clear that what God intended was for righteous people of all nations, status and sex should be made holy if they believed in Christ’s Way…His teachings of the true Israel and living lives according to those teachings.
This is why Christianity has historically been referred to as the New Israel.
Saying salvation comes via the Jews doesn’t mean that only Jews are saved…it means that the vehicle thru which righteous people could be set aside as holy is One who came through the genealogical line of the Jews.
Calling yourself “father” directly violates the words of the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 23 (ESV)
9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
Have you ever called your dad “father” before?
@@awake3083 not with a capital F or in any way that communicates they are somehow higher on the scale of being more Christ-lie or something.
@@easytiger35 Nobody thinks that though, so that’s a strawman. When a person calls a priest “Father” it’s a sign of respect and the acknowledgement of their priestly office as they are quite literally acting as the spiritual father of their flock. 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 completely refutes this tired argument as well.
@@awake3083 Matthew 23:9 plainly says you are wrong.
@@easytiger35 So does the verse I cited! Want to keep acting like an idiot or are you going to respond to the substance of my message?