The air / fuel mixture is a tad off. The delivery of fuel is somewhat fixed due to the size of the oriface at the end of the generator. You can do a cleaning of the venturi , dust dirt cobwebs and beehives can radically change the air / fuel ratio and cause a yellow flame and the inconsistent burner pattern you experienced.
Thanks Doc for the review; these Coleman stoves and their varients used to be the mainstay of camping fifty years ago. Used the double burner on a trip to Alaska when was nineteen years old and used it for several years after that. Great stoves!
Just random thoughts, but perhaps the heat is increasing the tanks pressure so it is pushing fuel faster than it can gasify so maybe try less pressure and see if it changes anything. The size of this screams hunting cabin vs camping, at least to me.
Svea 123 is my favorite backpacking stove, a perfect combination of the simplicity and reliability of an alcohol stove (almost, of course a Trangia is even simpler) and power of a multi fuel or propane one. Not the lightest but on the other hand you save on the weight of fuel compared to gas canisters.
Ernie, I'm glad you finally got a nice new 500. (Mine is dated March of '47) Not sure why yours flared like that. I've never heard about turning it all the way up. Mine is still running on all original equipment, except the fuel cap gasket. I put a new one in last year. I'm going on a cookout with the grandkids tomorrow. You've convinced me to take the 500 for the hot chocolate.
I bought one of these, new, in the late 60's. I also had SVEA and Optimus 110 stoves, as I not only used them camping and hunting, but did a lot of mountaineering as well. My experience is that all of these "white gas" stoves of that era, had to be watched constantly. The Coleman spurted and caused a fire on the tailgate of my truck, once, but once was enough for me to ever trust taking my eyes off of it. The SVEA spurted and was engulfed in flames in my tent, high in the Tetons! Never used that one again. The Optimus spurted and caused panic a few times, but I never had it in my tent. Was it the design of the generators, the valves of that time period or the quality of the fuel we had? Maybe all three or something else, I have not considered. Love your videos, especially on the old stoves.
502 has better wind protection. I would love to have my 502 burner mounted on a 500 tank => Coleman "frankenstove" !! TIPS : 1. paint the venturi and generator with "flame resistant high heat" flat black paint. This will help maintain vaporisation. Can also do this on 502 and suitcase stoves. 2. Take spare tank cap [1-piece type] and drill 1/4" hole in center. Then 'JB Weld' a schrader valve into cap. So now you can use 10-12 strokes of bike pump to pressurise instead of 30-40 strokes of built-in pump.
Running rich, but mostly when hot. Interesting. The only thing that controls how much fuel gets to the burner is tank pressure, valve needle position, and the gas tip. Full stop. While a little of the vapor at the top of the tank helps with lighting, the vast majority of fuel still comes from the bottom of the tank. The vapors from the head space simply aren't concentrated enough to support combustion after being mixed with air. In the LIGHT position, the other needle in the fuel/air tube MOSTLY blocks the fuel pickup but not completely. The fuel that creeps by the needle in the f/a tube is atomized by the air forced down between the inner and outer tubes, making a mist of fuel and air that will burn well enough for a bit to get the generator hot enough to vaporize/generate. It's mostly air, by volume, which is why you use lots of air, and tank pressure, in the instant lighting phase. In the burn position no air should be going to the generator until the fuel level is really low, almost empty. This will be apparent when the flames start pulsing and jumping off the burner with more blue and less green in the flame. So it's burning rich when hot. Too much fuel or not enough air or both. Too much fuel? Oversized/worn gas tip. Crappy reproduction generator. That's it for fuel. Too much pressure is maybe possible, but HIGHLY unlikely. Too little air? Cobwebs, insects or some other obstruction in the bunsen. Missing burner ring. My most likely suspects here are: Mud daubers or other obstruction in the burner/bunsen, missing ring, or simply a bad or incorrect gas tip. An old video I did under my now abandoned channel. ua-cam.com/video/hgRkf4i0awo/v-deo.html
8:30 maybe something boiled over and partially blocked the burner waffle plates. If it's like the regular stoves, just unscrew the burner cap, take the layers apart and brush off grime pretty easily. I would say the burner is opened too wide and throwing too much fuel into the generator than it can handle... letting a bit of liquid fuel get through to the burner. Not sure why the throttle would be able to open that wide, but you never know who adjusted what over the years and modified things beyond original design.
Lots of orange flames, unburned fuel. So yeah, a little rich . Im wonder'n if that "Burn-Light is more of a variable valve and not a position type switch. Perhaps prent raw fuel from entering main valve body and entering generator tube assembly. Tank has a pressure relief so it can contol heat b/l switch prevents that. Now im confused....😂
I would recommend recheck the whole stove. The stove should not run the way you are experiencing. They run well without as much drama if they are running correctly with a steady all blue flame. They weren’t designed to be the huge output stoves of modern backpacking which are designed mainly to boil water quickly. These were designed to put out steady adjustable heat that can go down to a simmer. The preheat process should require more air pumps than you are doing and adjust the flame to remain blue. As it heats the generator you can turn them up but they are not intended to be blowtorches. They do benefit from wind protection. The Canadian military issued them with wind screens.
Your stove is releasing too much gas. That's why you're getting visible pooling of fuel. When you turn that lever to the light position most of the fuel is supposed to come from the compressed vapor above the fuel level at the top of the tank. When it's in the burn position it should be picking up more fuel from the bottom of the tank. Your flame is too big and will burn out your wire cooking rack. I agree, something is wrong with light/run switch. My 500CA has a much more controllable flame, and the wire cooking rack doesn't glow so red so quickly.
How many stoves we buy today will still function 60 years from now? Keep in mind when this stove was made that fuel was very cheap so how much fuel you use was not a concern.
I pump all of my Colemans 10 strokes before initial lighting and at least 60 strokes / one minute pumping and they all work fine. So l suppose low air pressure causes odd behaviour of yours. Nice vid though
You may want to pressure test it for air leaks. I think you are running out of pressure after it’s been burning awhile. That may be why you are running rich. How much gas was in the tank when you did the video? Large tank, small amount of fuel, with little air pressure would cause it to run rich also. Good luck figuring this thing out! Love you videos, especially the Coleman ones lately. I’ve been on a hunt for a 502 after watching your videos.
If you hadn’t done it yet a complete disassemble and reassemble is suggested. Whenever I purchase a Coleman item (Stove, lantern, etc.) I do three main things. Take it completely apart which includes dropping the CV (Check Valve) into carb cleaner and taking the valve assembly out and doing a nice wire wheel cleaning of everything. One of the other possibilities is that when you pull out the valve assembly taking off the A/F (Air/Fuel) tube. Stretch the spring a small bit while running some steel wool over the Fuel pickup needle. This is a 60+ year old stove so over time it will accumulate varnish which will restrict movement of the needle. That considering you already purchase a new generator should completely take away most if not all your issues you are running into.
Your not pumping enough air in it. They need more pressure to run optimally. Also your burner jets might need a cleaning. Unscrew the screw in the middle. The plates come apart. Clean then put them back in the same order.
I've got a kerosene pressure lantern that spurts like that. I think its about the varying pressure when you have it up to high. You seem to have it up really high. I don't see a need for all that flame lapping up the side. Back it off a bit and it probably will boil pretty much as well. Speed is not everything full throttle is not needed with these stoves.
Try the burn/light valve halfway. Seemed right when it was on the light setting. Kinda like a rich/lean mixture setting on a carburetor. That setting might change with altitude
Old man Coleman and Classic Camp Stoves are great sources for accurate information on Coleman and other vintage stoves.
The air / fuel mixture is a tad off. The delivery of fuel is somewhat fixed due to the size of the oriface at the end of the generator. You can do a cleaning of the venturi , dust dirt cobwebs and beehives can radically change the air / fuel ratio and cause a yellow flame and the inconsistent burner pattern you experienced.
Thanks Doc for the review; these Coleman stoves and their varients used to be the mainstay of camping fifty years ago. Used the double burner on a trip to Alaska when was nineteen years old and used it for several years after that. Great stoves!
Cool. I was born June 1961. Lol - I look about the same as the stove. Maybe more difficult to get going. 😂
Just random thoughts, but perhaps the heat is increasing the tanks pressure so it is pushing fuel faster than it can gasify so maybe try less pressure and see if it changes anything. The size of this screams hunting cabin vs camping, at least to me.
Looks real amazing! I run the otimus svea123 when I am out backpacking. Amazing stoves also. Yours looks real nice.
Svea 123 is my favorite backpacking stove, a perfect combination of the simplicity and reliability of an alcohol stove (almost, of course a Trangia is even simpler) and power of a multi fuel or propane one. Not the lightest but on the other hand you save on the weight of fuel compared to gas canisters.
@@Murgoh yeah I love my svea. And when you hike with others its a real conversation piece. :)
When I bought mine the previous owner had taken a large coffee can and cut it to fit under the burner grate and inside of the upright supports
The better wind protection is why I prefer the 502. That can wind baffle is great idea and when used correctly will save fuel.
Ernie, I'm glad you finally got a nice new 500. (Mine is dated March of '47) Not sure why yours flared like that. I've never heard about turning it all the way up. Mine is still running on all original equipment, except the fuel cap gasket. I put a new one in last year. I'm going on a cookout with the grandkids tomorrow. You've convinced me to take the 500 for the hot chocolate.
I bought one of these, new, in the late 60's. I also had SVEA and Optimus 110 stoves, as I not only used them camping and hunting, but did a lot of mountaineering as well. My experience is that all of these "white gas" stoves of that era, had to be watched constantly. The Coleman spurted and caused a fire on the tailgate of my truck, once, but once was enough for me to ever trust taking my eyes off of it. The SVEA spurted and was engulfed in flames in my tent, high in the Tetons! Never used that one again. The Optimus spurted and caused panic a few times, but I never had it in my tent. Was it the design of the generators, the valves of that time period or the quality of the fuel we had? Maybe all three or something else, I have not considered. Love your videos, especially on the old stoves.
502 has better wind protection. I would love to have my 502 burner mounted on a 500 tank => Coleman "frankenstove" !!
TIPS : 1. paint the venturi and generator with "flame resistant high heat" flat black paint. This will help maintain vaporisation. Can also do this on 502 and suitcase stoves. 2. Take spare tank cap [1-piece type] and drill 1/4" hole in center. Then 'JB Weld' a schrader valve into cap. So now you can use 10-12 strokes of bike pump to pressurise instead of 30-40 strokes of built-in pump.
Brings back memories guy :) My dad pumping. We laughed about it last night.
I was thinking maybe there is some webbing or some other obstruction in the bunson chamber.
Running rich, but mostly when hot. Interesting.
The only thing that controls how much fuel gets to the burner is tank pressure, valve needle position, and the gas tip. Full stop. While a little of the vapor at the top of the tank helps with lighting, the vast majority of fuel still comes from the bottom of the tank. The vapors from the head space simply aren't concentrated enough to support combustion after being mixed with air. In the LIGHT position, the other needle in the fuel/air tube MOSTLY blocks the fuel pickup but not completely. The fuel that creeps by the needle in the f/a tube is atomized by the air forced down between the inner and outer tubes, making a mist of fuel and air that will burn well enough for a bit to get the generator hot enough to vaporize/generate. It's mostly air, by volume, which is why you use lots of air, and tank pressure, in the instant lighting phase.
In the burn position no air should be going to the generator until the fuel level is really low, almost empty. This will be apparent when the flames start pulsing and jumping off the burner with more blue and less green in the flame.
So it's burning rich when hot. Too much fuel or not enough air or both.
Too much fuel? Oversized/worn gas tip. Crappy reproduction generator. That's it for fuel. Too much pressure is maybe possible, but HIGHLY unlikely.
Too little air? Cobwebs, insects or some other obstruction in the bunsen. Missing burner ring.
My most likely suspects here are: Mud daubers or other obstruction in the burner/bunsen, missing ring, or simply a bad or incorrect gas tip.
An old video I did under my now abandoned channel. ua-cam.com/video/hgRkf4i0awo/v-deo.html
I'd still like to see a video that recommends full throttle on those stoves. Doesn't make sence with my 533.
8:30 maybe something boiled over and partially blocked the burner waffle plates. If it's like the regular stoves, just unscrew the burner cap, take the layers apart and brush off grime pretty easily. I would say the burner is opened too wide and throwing too much fuel into the generator than it can handle... letting a bit of liquid fuel get through to the burner. Not sure why the throttle would be able to open that wide, but you never know who adjusted what over the years and modified things beyond original design.
Lots of orange flames, unburned fuel. So yeah, a little rich . Im wonder'n if that "Burn-Light is more of a variable valve and not a position type switch. Perhaps prent raw fuel from entering main valve body and entering generator tube assembly. Tank has a pressure relief so it can contol heat b/l switch prevents that. Now im confused....😂
I would double check the jet to be sure its not leaking through the threads. Never saw that particular stove before. Its huge.
Oh Doc, this looks scary!
If That BadBoy Could Tell Stories OMG I Bet He's Got Some Doozys LOL😂
I would recommend recheck the whole stove. The stove should not run the way you are experiencing. They run well without as much drama if they are running correctly with a steady all blue flame. They weren’t designed to be the huge output stoves of modern backpacking which are designed mainly to boil water quickly. These were designed to put out steady adjustable heat that can go down to a simmer. The preheat process should require more air pumps than you are doing and adjust the flame to remain blue. As it heats the generator you can turn them up but they are not intended to be blowtorches. They do benefit from wind protection. The Canadian military issued them with wind screens.
It sure looks like it runs better on “light” than on “burn”. I’d try using it assuming the valve has been fiddled with and see how it runs
Good video, thanks for sharing, God bless !
Check out Old Town Coleman for how to videos and parts. He knows his stuff!
I just found 6 nos Generators in my shed, in the box, what are they worth
Your stove is releasing too much gas. That's why you're getting visible pooling of fuel. When you turn that lever to the light position most of the fuel is supposed to come from the compressed vapor above the fuel level at the top of the tank. When it's in the burn position it should be picking up more fuel from the bottom of the tank. Your flame is too big and will burn out your wire cooking rack. I agree, something is wrong with light/run switch. My 500CA has a much more controllable flame, and the wire cooking rack doesn't glow so red so quickly.
Given the low flame on the burner under the generator nearest the control valve is it possible the fuel is not being sufficiently heated?
How many stoves we buy today will still function 60 years from now? Keep in mind when this stove was made that fuel was very cheap so how much fuel you use was not a concern.
I pump all of my Colemans 10 strokes before initial lighting and at least 60 strokes / one minute pumping and they all work fine. So l suppose low air pressure causes odd behaviour of yours.
Nice vid though
You plan on deep frying a turkey?
You may want to pressure test it for air leaks. I think you are running out of pressure after it’s been burning awhile. That may be why you are running rich. How much gas was in the tank when you did the video? Large tank, small amount of fuel, with little air pressure would cause it to run rich also. Good luck figuring this thing out! Love you videos, especially the Coleman ones lately. I’ve been on a hunt for a 502 after watching your videos.
Ernie, love your videos. Might be worth jumping on the Coleman Collector Forum and searching or making a post.
If you hadn’t done it yet a complete disassemble and reassemble is suggested. Whenever I purchase a Coleman item (Stove, lantern, etc.) I do three main things. Take it completely apart which includes dropping the CV (Check Valve) into carb cleaner and taking the valve assembly out and doing a nice wire wheel cleaning of everything. One of the other possibilities is that when you pull out the valve assembly taking off the A/F (Air/Fuel) tube. Stretch the spring a small bit while running some steel wool over the Fuel pickup needle. This is a 60+ year old stove so over time it will accumulate varnish which will restrict movement of the needle. That considering you already purchase a new generator should completely take away most if not all your issues you are running into.
Your not pumping enough air in it. They need more pressure to run optimally. Also your burner jets might need a cleaning. Unscrew the screw in the middle. The plates come apart. Clean then put them back in the same order.
I've got a kerosene pressure lantern that spurts like that. I think its about the varying pressure when you have it up to high. You seem to have it up really high. I don't see a need for all that flame lapping up the side. Back it off a bit and it probably will boil pretty much as well. Speed is not everything full throttle is not needed with these stoves.
check the condition of your leather gaskets and also check for rust in the tank.
Try the burn/light valve halfway. Seemed right when it was on the light setting. Kinda like a rich/lean mixture setting on a carburetor. That setting might change with altitude
That’s a well built stove like a tank.
I've been looking for one of those, only I want the 502 or that new one they have that is gray.
Dwayne
Not vintage, but I love my dual fuel stove and lantern for car camping.
I wonder if the valve is letting in more liquid fuel than the generator can handle. Perhaps the valve needs work.
I agree!
These were notorious for catching fire if you used gasoline. I've had 4 over the decades. Every one of them had the same problem...
Aren't you supposed to take your finger off the hole on the pump on the pull stroke and cover it on the push stroke?
That’s what I remember of how you put more pressure. My parents had stoves and laterns that used white gas, that’s how we were taught how to pump it.