@@Boredbutnotreallyright there with you,god I would kill for them to get some good support, when you realize they have only been supported twice since they came out in gladiators assault.
I remember back in the day thinking to myself : "A whole archetype of monsters that can't be destroyed by battle? It's completely busted!". And, well...
The new cloudian spell would have been busted and made massive link spam boards, if it wasn't for that fucking line of text: "one effect per turn once that turn"
MBT's asking his fans to accurately gauge both the power of a card and the power of an archetype. I can see the ending montage of wrong answers from here
I was waiting for the compilation of people saying Circular but on the episode where he says "roll the people being wrong montage" there's only like 3 people
to be fair a bunch of them were "this card was amazing, but did not help the actual archetype be good at all", which is a valid answer (baronne, feather storm didn't help harpies, dragunity remus) and at least one was "this archetype was meta LATER but this support didn't help enough" like melodious.
To be fair to the Melodious person They were describing how the deck got legacy support in 2018 and 2020 that both served to do nothing except set up Aria Elegy in a new way Of course *now* they're playable and these busted cards are in the spotlight, but on release Ostinato and Bloom Harmonist the Melodious Composer did not make an impact on the playability of Melodious.
Before the newest support, the deck really was held together by... Ostinato, and the tears and fairy dust of Bloom Harmonist and Bloom Diva Basically their only three playable cards before the newest support for some reason, and Bloom Diva lived and died off Ostinato
Joseph really said he'll tear into the Gem Knight answer until he figured it out. And then he actually does to Melodious despite it being a similar concept to the former.
Melodious went from unplayable trash to unplayable trash to getting batshit insane custom cards that still didn't elevated them above unplayable trash to "getting a few playable monsters" that made them a tier-1/tier-2 deck.
@@Kylora2112 From a Melodious player currently playing 3 different variations on Melodious, this is accurate. Ostinato was a great card...but it didn't really go anywhere, and Bloom Harmonist xeno locks you with her effect. Both effects would either get into Bloom Diva or the Aria-Elegy lock at the End Phase. The deck used to be very heavily dependent on what else you drew outside of 1st movement or Ostinato.
Melodious was the perfect example AND counter-point at the same time. Bloom, Ostinato, & First Movement Solo are all insane cards. The latter two are still 3 ofs in a deck that is capable of winning major tournaments in the modern format. The deck simply didn't have a payoff.
@@Void-rj3sq Maybe not in terms of the sheer stupid numbers it can pump out, but absolutely that it should use the battle phase as a way to fuse into strong monsters and chain combo effects. Maybe make it so they come out in defense, or the big ones can't attack, and you get what Glad Beasts should have been (as someone whose first deck ever was Glad Beast).
I think the biggest problem is to make 1 or 2 unbelivable broken hoping it will carry an archetype but in the end people just handtrap those specific cards and you have to look at rest of the garbage in your hand and just pass
This is why people complaining about Circular as a card was wild to me. The rest of the deck wasn't nearly as efficient and has Circular not been so ignorant the deck would have been one of the hundred other decks that got one piece of support that reads well but doesn't actually help instead of the mid tier, kind of meta if you squinted hard enough, probably not going to make it after Kash format deck it ended up being. It's like people felt entitled to be able to Ash whatever the newest card was and make the opponent turn skip like they're used to with these kinds of one-card supports.
@@geek593 “The deck” didn’t exist after circular. Cause you’d put circular in any cyberse deck and it’d be a better use of circular than pure Mathmech.
A few cards that I'm shocked nobody mentioned are the Vampire cards. cards like Vampire Ghost, a card that sends 2 cards, adds one, and gives you an extra normal summon for an archetype that loves being in the graveyard and normal summoning a bunch and single-handedly starts your familiar and retainer resource loop. Cards like The Zombie Vampire as well which was meant to combo off with their ability to steal cards through Vampire Voivode and Vampire Sucker weren't enough for the deck to see any play despite being able to bring out a ton of material.
Not to mention that Ghost also acts as a normal-summon-based Lava Golem during the enemy turn if Zombie World is up (which it probably will be) as long as you have any 2-tribute Vampire in hand, like Voivode
The Yosenju support in Rising Rampage. It gave them a lot of stuff, including the ability to finally use the Pendulums effectively... yet they didn't do jack all.
While it wasn’t legacy support, I’d have to say Dual Avatar Invitation. The card would be crazy in any other fusion deck. “Discard 1, summon 5 tokens, then fusion summon up to twice, but you can’t use your ED outside fusions.”
They have received only one single card of legacy support, right? The new fusion? I would be interested in seeing what Dual Avatar could do if they had more support. They still only have two main deck monsters.
It is insane that the first and only time I've seen Fire Fist is in solo mode. They have tutors, they've got a special summon from hand that also brings one back from the graveyard, They have a legitimately amazing Link-2 that recovers a formation and foolishes! (Also they have a bunch of awful, slow continuous traps that you cant use to combo firefist effects because they can only use face-up cards. They also have a fair amount of conditional effects that can flop or brick if things come in the wrong order or your opponent disrupts you.)
Especially that Nobleknight one. That one is fact because you Isolde is a Nobleknight by name, but without the token dude or Brothers, they were ineffective in the deck, and didn't combo into actual playmaker for the deck
Ice Barriers really do just lack. But going Revealer->Defender->Pass in Master Duel, and me seeing a Floow player not be able to tribute summon, or Virtual World decking themselves because they didn't have the out for Defender will always be great. Been figuring out more combos as I play them too, like Dewloren bouncing cards that I can immediately play again, Prior just being constant advantage by bringing whoever back from the grave, and the fact they can easily go into the level 7 for Deep Sea Prima Donna, pull out Warlock, then go into either Icejade or Swordsoul level 10 just feels nice. Ice Barrier isn't a great deck, but boy is it fun to play
I’m really excited to try out Ice Barrier with the Terminal Revenge cards. I think it could become the backbone of a strong, but probably not meta, Water Synchro deck with all the other recent White Aura & Ghoti & Icejade stuff
The new, new support actually makes the deck playable and actually able to combo to an extent. But the structure was just not good enough. And that's partly due to unnecessary water restrictions. Or lack of cohesion. Or lack of actually interruption.
To be fair "De Fleur" is *sort of* it's own archetype. There are barely enough cards to call it that but my Konami naming conventions, "De Fleur" is an archetype.
Pretty sure an archetype needs a name to be refrenced in card effect text. “Fleur” is not mentioned, only specific monster names. And by that metric Glacial Beast also wouldn’t be one. Nor Digital Bug. But by anime rules, yea sure they’re an archetype
Well calling something as 2 maindeck cards an archetype feels weird, and there is even weirder ones if you go down that path and only consider "sharing name" conventions, transcendosaurus are an archetype then. With only 4 extra deck cards that literally couldnt be summoned "in archetype" and a maindeck card that basically doesnt work for any other transcendosaurus cards.
I remember cooking hard with them about 10 years ago, haha. Water fairies had the best of both worlds at the time in terms of support, since you could run stuff like Salvage, Moray, and also fairy support along with Sanctuary and Divine Punishment. And for the small price of turning one to defense mode, you could special summon Wisel from hand 😂
I'd like to give a shoutout to the brand new aroma support. "Oh but it's great in plant piles!" I don't want to play a pile, I want to play aroma. Give me my lifegain deck
To note, the Fleur was a series of cards that made up the majority of the cards in Sherry LeBlanc’s deck in 5Ds and was one of the side characters in one tournament with the robet men from the future, and Baronne De Fleur didn’t care about them one bit. I can go on about the good cards that were more readily abused by other decks and archetypes, and how despite the whining portion at the end those cards do technically and probably fit the prompt. I mean you asked yourself what the Fleur archetype was.
While the others were very wrong. I have to say I am on the melodious posters side. While of course now these cards are played bevore the lede support these cards perfectly fitted the description and they did completly flop when they came out.
Neiroy, The Dream Mirror Traitor. It not only searches you a monster you can immediately special summon, but also uses that monster to activate one of your two very important field spells alongside another monster that you can special summon, and also transform immediately. It's one of the most busted one-card combo starter I can think of but it's still not enough to save the terrible Dream Mirror archetype.
In the defense of some of the wrong answers, there really are some cases where an archetype has 1 incredibly broken card but the rest of the archetype it's supposed to belong to is ass. For example, Baronne. The fact that MBT asked "what's the Fleur archetype?" proved their point exactly. Fleur was so bad and forgettable that the only thing people remembered about them was their boss.
In terme of compatitif, Battlin Boxer, I just finish the deck and my order came yesterday with an Armored XYZ package... - Uppercut is a Stratos + counter recover + reborn - Chief Second is a double normal + battle handtrap that banish without targeting, - Announcer is a R. Rabbit but monster keep them effects + level modulation, - Ring Announcer searchable special from hand + spell/trap destruction, - Cross Counter nice negate + change an XYZ for another one - King Dempsey is a XYZ Stratos + target protection on both players turns And C79 is a special summon negate + a beater + monster removal on battle that does not destroy or target. But being really fun, easy to learn and with Infernoble or Armored XYZ + F0 nor being bad it just keep being a fun deck
The last wave of DDD support should have done more for the deck. Gryphon reads like a custom card, headhunt is huge for the DDD endboard, and machinex is an insanely powerful monster In the deck for a litany of reasons. Even the field spell, which is admittedly not great, has its uses in combo lines as well as a potential ED lock depending on the board. The deck was always pretty complicated and involved, but it was really respectably powerful at the time. I know it topped a bit around release, but it petered out quickly, and by the time we got bystials and shifter started seeing more play, the deck just fell back into obscurity. A damn shame really.
DDD need a Prank-Kids Pranks/ Raidraptor - Roost style card to get lost ED monsters back into rotation as well as main deck monsters. Hell, they could give it a bit of spice by allowing you to cycle back face up extra deck monsters too for a draw. Also, just give em a damn omni-negate already Konami. Preferably one that’s NOT a generic ED boss.
@@torakandwolf6786 honestly, they don’t really need an omni. A second negate would be nice for stuff like talents, but really what they need more is consistency boosters. I’ve always thought they could use a card like melody of awakening dragon; discard 1 then add ad DD and a dark contract from deck or something, Or something that summons from deck would be immensely useful. Though I do agree, they would benefit a lot from an avarice effect somewhere. Maybe one day.
@@chrisburns9898 D/D/D needs something that lets them generate advantage / consistency with a foolish burial as a cost (let them send stuff like lamia, swirl slime, necro slime or, typhon to GY, and if you do, add a D/D or dark contract card). As kepler and contract with the gate being their only searches sometimes gives the deck big choke points. MAYBE something that lets the special summon things from banishment would be nice
@@chrisburns9898 i mean the deck seems pretty consistent to me yeah, getting direct access to some contracts before truly committing would be nice but especially with the yubel support getting to keplar, copernicus and any other necessary ddd monster is easy as hell. The also have plenty of space for going second cards/board breakers. Yes they can be larger choke points but i think it would help but not solve the issue. At least for me the issue is that end board isn't strong or varied or flexible enough in the way in the it needs to be for kodern formats. especially when interrupted and the fact that gilgamesh is a really big choke point at times. I remember facing ddd players as a ddd player and dismantling their full board with low tier decks because they are essentially to easy to break. For instance at the time having siegfried, big ceaser, machinex, and head hunt with follow up/hand traps seems good. At some point it was but then you realize that without enough monster negates/protection you were kinda just stuck because the all it took was one good activation to wipe your board even IF the monster got stolen (especially if you were forced to shot gun head hunt). Then you have to remember the fact that in modern yugioh you might not always go full combo, ddd with full combo can be easily broken even with the seemingly string board, but when you only have machinex and head hunt or machinex and ceaser etc you've essentially lost a real game if yugioh.
To be fair on the Isolde one, Noble Knights and Infernoble Knights are "technically" different archetypes. Yes, they have the same gimmick of equips and the text on several Infernoble cards help you slot in the Noble Knight equip spells, but they were still different decks that had different Extra Deck monsters that share a name on card text. Yes, Isolde was tremendous in Infernoble Knights, but for the OG Noble Knights, she didn't help.
First Twitter thread I’ve missed in 15+. But with time for thoughts to marinate; NOT A SINGLE PERSON MENTIONED DRAGOON. Not only did my man fail Dark Magician, he failed Red-Eyes, then managed to flop in the entire TCG.
It was mentioned I think the problem is that dragoon saw a lot of play he didn’t want to use cards that were independent powerful and saw play own it own
I will forever resent POTE for printing a card as cool as Krawler Soma and it flopping because Spright and Tearlaments and Circular came out in the exact same set Also I'll somewhat go to bat for the guy mentioning the older Melodious cards. Sure, those cards suddenly became good in the last like two weeks, but those cards are like half a decade old and were absolute trash for that entire duration.
It does prove something- there are a lot of decks that have potentially busted support that are just waiting for their moment. Who knows, maybe we’ll get some Krawler support later down the line that will make people respect Soma.
@kataphrut7740 Krawler would specially need a rule change to make flip monsters chainable like traps or a card that isn’t OPT that does that. Krawler Soma being a +2 isn’t that impactful when all of the interaction being set up is broadcast to the opponent and isn’t even reactive since it requires your opponent to interact with them for the flip effects to actually happen barring a couple cards that can do it when you want (World Legacy Pawns). The link monsters are also hot garbage and don’t do anything to support the more control style gameplay that the flip monsters facilitate.
@@dariuspenner2528 a rule change cant make flip effects quick effect since you need to use an effect to flip them, which means they have to activate their effect in the next chain, you flip them on your turn while in an open main phase game state, or its the damage step like changing it so that you can flip and actovate in the same chain means if i chain a needlebug nest all the cards it mills can be activated to that chain since the thing prevented both from activating is that their effects at start of chain weren't a thing (one is face down and we luckily dont have in deck quick effects) wait crawler could use is a card thats says something like "flip a crawler face up and negate it for the turn: then have this card gain its effect" basically chain it to flip the crawler and the spell card or trap also adds its effect to he chain, but negate the crawler to avoid double dipping on flip effects
@heheheiamasupahstars A rule change absolutely could make flip effect monsters a quick effect, you’d just do the effect when resolving the chain. Your Needlebug Nest comparison doesn’t even make sense because the milling happens at resolution, at which point a new chain can start if there are any relevant effects. Making something like Krawler Spine a quick effect just makes it Raigeki Break with no discard cost. All you’d have to do is make a rule adjustment that allows cards with the “flip” type to flip themselves up at quick effect speed, allowing them to function identically to trap cards. They’d still be terrible, just slightly less terrible than they currently are because now you can be more reactive with your flip effects and something like World Legacy Pawns still has value in flipping cards back face down.
@@kataphrut7740 That's exactly what happened to the Ice Barrier SD cards, they weren't good enough but they did set up a foundation for the Terminal World cards to use.
It's sad no one talked about Ojamas. They have, hands down, some of the most broken spell cards ever printed, they pretty much say "what is a deck? Do your mean... Your third hand?" and do nothing at the end of the day
On release it didn't really help any other deck other than burning abyss but it was released in the tcg during toss format in 2019 so the deck was on its monster Mashup build with sekkas light so the impact wasn't all that important to it. Also the deck was still going strong as a rogue pick despite being so old hence the meme statements BA never dies. Sadly sekkas light was limited in the same dog water banlist of January 2020 that all the TOSS decks died in along with the pandemic a couple months after which means BA didn't get the attention to adapt the loss of sekkas light before people weren't really playing anymore till master duels release 2 years later when people saw the power creep BA was facing when it finally died. Honestly the archetype needs some actual support with its own archetypal spells to help it or some more extra deck monsters to support them (or both) since the archetype has some rather harsh restrictions comparatively
9:15 to be fair to this person, they were highlighting the fact that Melodious is CURRENTLY playable, but that the cards they posted came out waaay before the LEDE support, and did basically nothing for the archetype at the time of their release
I like how half the posters on the endcard were getting yelled at because they answered the question you asked and not the one you made up in your head in retrospect. You yelled at someone for showing you Melodious Bloom Harmonist and Ostinato because Melodious is playable in 2024 with the LEDE support??
Morphtronic Telefon is the most custom card ever. It can FTK or build any board that can be imagined. Yet it sees 0 play because of the whole concept of handtraps and sometimes your opponent makes you go second. Konami even made it an R in Master Duel, and that says all you need to know.
melodious tbh is a correct thing for this thread, ostinato and the link are literally branded fusion that doesn't lock you and the link 2 is just summon 2 from deck, took ANOTHER wave of busted ass custom card support for the deck to finally do something
Yeah I have no idea why he was so pressed about Melodious, even the tweet was saying "Melodious is playable now, in 2024", but Ostinato and Bloom Harmonist are from fuckin 2018 and 2020 and MEGA FLOPPED on release, like what is he talking about?
I'd like to mention the Ancient Gear support. Let's give them a new playable version of Golem that's a double search, multiple other searches on top of that, an extra normal, more ways to trigger Geartown pops, and a card that gives all their monsters target and destruction protection for a turn, and makes their effects unrespondable. That last one isn't even new, it came out eight years ago! What do they do with all that? The same thing Tenpai does, but without being able to run 20 handtraps. Never mind!
I seriously wish AG support wasn't just "Make players want to play the big, un-special-summonable brick (or its retrains), hit hard, then die horrifically next turn" Like, it wouldn't have killed them to make an AG that's a defensive wall. Or give them actual recursion outside of the horrible trap. Or even give them a fusion or ED monster that can actually further your plays. I say this as someone that played the deck extensively in high school and loves the deck aesthetic, Konami could've done so much more for the deck.
to be fair there's a lot of cards that don't need to be run in AGs so there's still a bit of room. the only monsters you ever need are the three Golems, Wyvern, Tanker, and Commander (and maybe Box and Frame if you're feeling spicy). then adding five spells and *one* continuous trap that you run the same amount of Commanders, and you still have space if you've been doing the right ratios. 2 Dark Golem, 1 AGG, 1-2 Ultimate Pound, 3 Wyvern, 3 Tanker, 2 Commander, 2 Catapult, 3 Fusion, 3 Advance, 2 Fortress, 3 Geartown, 2 Duel, and that's still at *minimum* 12 cards worth of non-engine.
@@lordflarus I think you could even cut cards from that list. I'd say 3 copies of Statue can replace the Ultimate Pounds since it's effectively extra copies of Golem. I've seen lists that only run one of Commander and Duel, and even Tanker, Fusion and Geartown could lose a copy since everything is so searchable. I'd say Wyvern, Advance and Statue when it comes are the only guaranteed 3-ofs.
didnt we do this one already? appliancer was in it? edit after watching to the end again way to many mfs don't know that the criteria was the card saw 0 tops just like the last one we did.
This time its about Support that didnt do shit for the Archetype they where printed for. They maybe saw success in other Decks. At least that is what i get out of the twitter post :p
To be fair Crawlers also got hit hard when they changed how monsters Effects worked when they were sent back to the deck. It turn Mind meld form the decks best card to a card that not only didnt work with the deck any more but activity made it worst.
@@DrAiPatch The krawler floating effects that mind meld triggers also get deus X onto the field. On top of that, krawler works best when paired with another flip synergistic archetype such as tindangle or prediction princess, both enabling easy access to those cards as well. And if you are able to establish deus X, there isn't really much of a need for mind meld.
Evil Eyes Unleashed; Foolishes 2 cards then adds one of the equip spells to hand can banish itself from grave to equip a Selene to a just- summoned link, but none of this changes the fact that Evil Eye is an obscure deck from 2019.
0:07 the reference 8:26 best part of the video 8:58 funny enough "Baronne de Fleur is a perfect example of whatMBT meant of "Busted support that wasn't able to make its origin deck / archetype (Fleur / Floral Knight) meta". Mostly Because Baronne is a perfect example of failed card design that was made disgustingly too generic 9:14 Funny enough Melodious would be a case of "this BUSTED support only became good after a later BUSTED support was released". Before legacy of destruction, those cards barely helped the archetype 9:27 What i said about melodious also applies here except times 11. As "Infernoble" could basically count as "spinoff of the original archetype that became meta, unlike its source archetype"
You know, I was more on the replies side of "the card is good but never did anything for the archetype" posts but upon rereading the prompt once you did say "it flops" so it is now time to laugh at everyone in the outro
Gladiator beasts just need a new link 1. With the effect(s): Gladiator Beasts monsters you control are unaffected by your opponents card effects during the Main Phase. Your opponent cannot target this card for for an attack while it points to a monster. When this card is Link Summoned: Special summon 1 Gladiator Beast from your Deck in Attack Position. You cannot special summon monsters from the extra deck, except Gladiator Beast monsters the turn you activated this effect. It'd do something.
9:00 the Fleur arctype is a 5ds synchro arctype associated with noble knight. centaur mina and one of the noble knight horses are the main tcg bridge between the two arctypes
Ok the melodious and orcust girsu takes are kinda right. The wave with the link did literally nothing because setting up a fusion monster that basically just sat there and no follow up is pretty bad, now we actually have a decent target and a better engine. Girsu was good in the ocg but by the time we got it all the best targets for it’s tuner gimmick, token generation, and Armageddon knight effects were banned or power crept. “Ah yes this will go great with my banned lib and banned harp, ooh maybe ill set up a mekk knight board in current format!”
what arcana decks so badly need is a retrain of king's knight & jack's knight. queen's knight is fine to remain normal since there's a slew of normal support & she's a good unexpected dai target as is. the problem is she currently eats your normal summon in order for king's knight to be live - so you HAVE to summon her from deck with unexpected dai. even just adding "if queen's knight is on your field, you can special summon this card" to king's knight would help the deck's swarming. like ALREADY the deck is capable of it! you can get five bodies on the board ez if it wasn't for the fact king's knight and jack's knight are dead weight as is the amount it can resource loop and outpace an opponent's resources already is INSANE power to it. it could be SO GOOD if it was given some new retrains because outresourcing your opponent and reshuffling all the resources from graveyard to deck over and over again makes it EXTREMELY annoying.
Say what you want about Fire Fists; Panda is a powerhouse. It specials itself, specials+triggers a Fire Fist monster in the GY and protects Fire Fists from boardwipes. It can also be summoned using the counter-trap, meaning your opponent will effectively need 3 boardwipes to out a Fire Fist board haha.
Cloudians are always like 1-3 cards away from being a meta deck it feels like, because the base cloudians don't have a once per turn clause, so Altus can potentially rip an opponent's entire hand turn 1 if you could get the counters for it, Acid Cloud can destroy all of their back row, and that other one who's name I don't remember can nuke all their monsters. On top of that the one that summons puff ball can do it an infinite number of times per turn as well, so they're always like 1-3 cards away from being powerful.
BEF Zelos searches out your summon spam engine, gives all your monsters targeting + destruction protection, a free summon from hand, an additional counter, AND +500 ATK/DEF because all that wasn't enough, and yet by virtue of being giant beatsticks who do nothing but self-destruct (except Tetran, ily) they're still terrible.
Surprised no one mentioned BEF Zelos Problem with these 1-off Effect Monster legacy support is that they give archetypes a big chokepoint where they didn't before
The fleur archetype does exist. There’s only 9 cards in it, one of which is newly banned, but it’s there. Another card of theirs you might know is Sauge de Fleur since it’s being teched a bit.
At some point he may have to stop putting the Wrong corner in videos because the meta will then transition to "be wrong on purpose to get featured in a UA-cam video". Just encourages the wrong kind of answers.
Dark Infant @Ignister fits this as well, is a link-1, searches the field spell that is necessary if you want to make any plays on summon, makes space so you actually can use the field spell to summon, synergizes with the link-3 to have it summon three monsters and also freely changes it's attribute to whatever you need if you are going for the link-6. All this, and all it does for the archetype is make it not dead on arrival and instead make it a barely playable rogue deck that only really wins games by knowledge checking your opponent
@ignister was an excellent deck at an unfortunate time. No real events to show what it could do for around nine months and five months before a game changing set that shifted it down from tier 1/2 contender to solid rogue. By the time YCS Charlotte brought events back it had been power crept twice.
Ignisters were pretty good last year and even made a ycs finals during pote format which they lost to mystic mine burn However most of their success came from variants using a small mathmech engine, and that died with circular's ban
Test panther was a retrain of Test tiger. Which had the effect to get your GB with their effects. In Edison and today, the deck is playing R cat to summon a GB and TT so you get to play with a GB effect. It’s not a diversion from what the deck has always been doing.
This is where I would add a note about Umbral Horrors getting a monster that literally says “Drop 2 level 4 or lower fiend bodies in exchange for your normal summon” EXCEPT THAT THE CARD CAME OUT YEARS AGO AND HURT THE ORIGINAL RANK 4 STRATEGY BEING A LEVEL 2. AS ITS MAY 16, GHOST DROPPED 10 YEARS AGO AND A DAY
2:15 to be fair, almost every pendulum deck has this chokepoint in the form of Beyond the Pendulum. Majespecters just get their own, better version of it with the same crippling flaw for some reason 3:00 Amusingly though, post PHNI literally any deck can put this on the board by Instant Fusioning Master of Ham, which can just slap *any* flip monster onto the board face-down from hand or deck. Is it better than the Restricts? Probably not. Is it more fun? Absolutely
I think speedroid is one of those ba/pk type decks (at least it would be if the meta wasn't so unbelievably strong right now and for the concievable future) where it'll just keep reappearing as a playable rogue deck every now and then for a few years because any generic card that benefits decks like it even slightly will be completely busted in it. To be fair though, ba and pk had a far easier time playing turn 1 and played through a lot of interruption. Speedroid can do both of those things, but not quite well enough. We'll just wait and see I suppose.
Konami, I see what you do for other archetypes and pray for gravekeeper support. Redo my monsters. They reek of 2008. Let me activate a Necrovalley from the deck at QE speed, then lock it from being removed by my own effects until my next endphase to prevent it from just being one sided handtrap cheese. "How can you say that? Ishizu was format breaking!" You're right, if they ever worked in a gravekeeper's deck. Any "support" crippled by it's own field spell isn't really support.
I was one of the people who posted about Dragunity (whoops). Remus/Legatus saw play in Dragon Link - but they didn't "save" the preexisting cards in their archetype; D-Link was playing Ravine anyway. I was thinking pure builds specifically. I should probably get my reading comprehension checked either way, though :(
Remus wasn't even that good. It increased the ceiling of a deck that already had the highest ceiling out of any deck in the meta. A meta where Dragon Link wasn't topping because there weren't any events.
I'm surprised junk speeder didn't make it. Cards says "summon 5 from deck". Not enough .There even was multiple set-up to summon speeder projected by Accel stardust, baronne, or herald... Still not enough.
I want to give some grace to some of the people who got included in the post credits because they didn't understand what MBT meant in the prompt. A bunch of people thought that MBT meant "Broken looking legacy support that failed to make their archetype playable," when he meant, "Broken looking legacy support that, despite having broken text on it, didn't have a competitive top at all in anything." I'm not going to get mad at people for interpreting the prompt the way they did.
Here's the obligatory Gladiator Beast broken field Konami is one step away from: If you control a Gladiator Beast, negate your opponents monsters effects except during the battle phase. Once per turn, do the Gladiator Beast thingy for free. If this card is in your GY banish it to do something Gladiator Beast adjacent.
Love when we first got the Altergeist support, Malwisp was the 1 thing that completely broke open the old style of the deck. The card was incredible. Custom card. But then they printed Poplar, which is Malwisp but infinitely better, for a better archetype. That didn't feel good. Poplar playable in geists tho :)
The altergeist point is very flawed. To get to the link 4 you're clearly gonna get 2 traps at lease of off hex and adminia plus a faker in hand to set up you're free compulse with silq. It's just as heavy on traps now as they ever were
i don't buy the "konami changed the deck", because Altergeist was always monster centric, but i agree with him in the point that not too many people were expecting to play against floodgates and a bunch of solemn judgements... that being said, that stopped being an issue a couple of years ago lol, newer decks go, "oh that was cute", and stomp you regardless.
Seconded to the Mayakashi cards, if they didn't have such an obvious chokepoints of "Imperm the Hajun" and "Called By the Dakki" they'd be a little better I guess. As is you dedicate half your extra deck to monsters that all have individual effects that are generally found collectively on a single boss monster of other archetypes.
The Three Musketeers of Face Cards got so much cool stuff, but to my eternal sorrow will remain forever unplayable until they retrain the three Garnets at their core, and even then it's a long shot. PS: What was the ever-loving point of giving them their own fusion card when the only fusion they have is that ancient fossil all the way back from 2009 that also happens to be complete dogwater?
I got so triggered when that one guy said "Isolde, Two Tales of the Noble Knights" and was so happy when Joseph cracked back. Isolde was the best Noble Knight card when it came out along the link era support, it was the best card when the Infernoble Knights came out and finally banned after the release of the 2nd wave of Infernoble support. It did everything you wanted for the deck. Binned your equip cards so you both thinned your deck, didn't have to rely on drawing 1-2 to make a good turn 1 board and could fully equip your Artorigus Xyz monsters, drew you a card, summoned any of your monsters, and didn't lock you into Noble Knights. I was so heartbroken when it got banned as we had relatively recently gotten the new support and the Isolde ban has damn near destroyed the deck.
But what did it do for Athurian Knights. It took a Token generator to make it worth while. Like it didn't actually do a whole lot compared to the other link 2 legacy + The 2 link 3 that saw play in decks OTHER then their associated decks. Like you make Isolde and search something, send 4 and summon Medraut. Oh wait, Medraut requires no other monsters to work use it's effect.
@@SuperSayianWarrior It increased the rate at which you could go through your deck. Combine Isolde with Brothers and Round Table and you can generate lots of advantage as the game progresses. Have you ever seen people's reaction to it when you play it on them and start chaining End phase effects? It feels good, and more often than not forces them to waste cards destroying it because they aren't used to a card like it. While Iyvanne made it good, Iyvanne also came out in the same set Isolde did along with Custennin which could special itself. An easy turn 1 combo was summon Medraut, equip Noble Arms, use Medraut effect to summon Iyvanne, Noble Arms gets destroyed due to effect, re-equip it to Iyvanne, Iyvanne triggers summoning a token, link off token and one knight for Isolde, bin 4 equips, summon Brothers, Brothers effect to shuffle back 3 equips to draw 1 card, go into either Rank 4 Artorigus or Sacred Custennin. That was a 2 card combo with just vanilla Knights. Depending on what the rest of your hand looked like your end board could be anything from a Sacred Custennin that needs to be kaiju'd, to both Isolde with an Artorigus XYZ plus Ignoble Knight of High Laundsallyn with Round Table on board with 2 effects available and Avalon/Until Noble Arms are Needed in the back row. On a VERY funny side note, if you start off your Medraut line using Noble Arms Caliburn and use it's effect at every possible opportunity then you gain 1500 LP that first turn and pretty much guarantee a win against Burn Decks because outside of Nurse Burn exactly none of them expect the opponent to have the ability to gain life.
Ghostrick nekomusume, a constant book of moon for every level 4 and Higher monster. Insane card effect, never saw relevant play cause you had to have another ghostrick face up on the field
Magical Musketeer Max is a potential gigantic swing in card advantage but now represents the deck’s biggest choke point. I’d also say Battle Shogun is the same way. A lot of cards from that link Vrains pack weren’t as strong as the ones in the previous pack. It grabs Gateway and contributes to Gateway doing its infinite loop by spreading Bushido counters more easily, but it doesn’t fix what the deck loses to.
Yeah because the deck massively benefits from the gorillion different FIRE Warrior support cards printed over the years. An archetypal rescue rabbit is great... unless it locks you out of like 90% of tools you can use to make the deck stronger. 😭
funnily enough glad beasts still need the battle phase to combo off. the best starter is to cheat out the link 2 with tri-brigade to tag into two dudes for tamer editor.
Disagree that it "needs" the bp. It is a go 1st build a board deck, an uninterrupted Rescue Cat (or Fraktall with friends) would still win you the game (2-3 S/T negate Heracles, rarely 1 Domitianus, 2-3 neg Apolousa backed by Revolt), which won't happen in the handtrap.format but best the deck can do prob.
@@boraaksitozgun9912 you can play it that way but I've consistently hit master by jamming a ton of breakers and going second. 1 fraktall gets you to hera, domi, and a 4 mat apo. the deck was more viable in MD when you could simorgh link to summon the wind statue from deck which is protected from battle by domi.
@@boraaksitozgun9912I've had pretty decent success blind seconding with breakers. 1 fraktall ends on hera, dom, and a 4 mat apo. it's not fantastic but for only having to play 4 glads, the only hard garnet being augustus, in the main its a pretty efficient engine since if you draw 2 tri-brigades you can shuffle a glad back with ferrijit. the deck was a passable rogue deck back when the simorgh link was legal because dom would protect the statue from battle, but i manage to hit at least diamond every season.
Yeah, it certainly did make him look like an illiterate clown with dementia since he couldn't read or remember what he started making a video about. Pretty funny.
Cloudian making it onto the thumbnail but not into the video is all you need to know about those guys
Tragic, but true. I was actually waiting for the bashing.
Thinking same thing here
@@Boredbutnotreallyright there with you,god I would kill for them to get some good support, when you realize they have only been supported twice since they came out in gladiators assault.
I remember back in the day thinking to myself : "A whole archetype of monsters that can't be destroyed by battle? It's completely busted!". And, well...
The new cloudian spell would have been busted and made massive link spam boards, if it wasn't for that fucking line of text: "one effect per turn once that turn"
MBT's asking his fans to accurately gauge both the power of a card and the power of an archetype. I can see the ending montage of wrong answers from here
There wouldnt even be a video, only montage 😂
well you were correct
I was waiting for the compilation of people saying Circular but on the episode where he says "roll the people being wrong montage" there's only like 3 people
to be fair a bunch of them were "this card was amazing, but did not help the actual archetype be good at all", which is a valid answer (baronne, feather storm didn't help harpies, dragunity remus) and at least one was "this archetype was meta LATER but this support didn't help enough" like melodious.
@@eileenlilac7271yeah a lot of those were "mbt sees a meta card and shuts his brain off without thinking about the context"
You know what needs to be here? The most custom card in existence: the Genex link 1
The Genex link 1 is yugituber support.
It is my emocional suport metal boy
I’m just happy they took an unplayable deck and made it do something…… I don’t think they could have done much better with it
i think it might genuinely be the most powerful link 1 ever printed
it is also the strongest imperm magnet ever made
@@MiyaoMeow588 ah the old game of "do you have a handtrap"
To be fair to the Melodious person
They were describing how the deck got legacy support in 2018 and 2020 that both served to do nothing except set up Aria Elegy in a new way
Of course *now* they're playable and these busted cards are in the spotlight, but on release Ostinato and Bloom Harmonist the Melodious Composer did not make an impact on the playability of Melodious.
Before the newest support, the deck really was held together by... Ostinato, and the tears and fairy dust of Bloom Harmonist and Bloom Diva
Basically their only three playable cards before the newest support for some reason, and Bloom Diva lived and died off Ostinato
Joseph really said he'll tear into the Gem Knight answer until he figured it out. And then he actually does to Melodious despite it being a similar concept to the former.
To be fair for the Melodious support, they specifically said the support before the current one
Yugioh player try to read more than one sentence challenge: impossible.
Melodious went from unplayable trash to unplayable trash to getting batshit insane custom cards that still didn't elevated them above unplayable trash to "getting a few playable monsters" that made them a tier-1/tier-2 deck.
@@Kylora2112 From a Melodious player currently playing 3 different variations on Melodious, this is accurate. Ostinato was a great card...but it didn't really go anywhere, and Bloom Harmonist xeno locks you with her effect. Both effects would either get into Bloom Diva or the Aria-Elegy lock at the End Phase. The deck used to be very heavily dependent on what else you drew outside of 1st movement or Ostinato.
@@FAlynn92 Just years of cards setting up an endgoal that didn't exist. 😭
Melodious was the perfect example AND counter-point at the same time. Bloom, Ostinato, & First Movement Solo are all insane cards. The latter two are still 3 ofs in a deck that is capable of winning major tournaments in the modern format.
The deck simply didn't have a payoff.
This gotta be one of the funniest ending this series got
The realization that Tenpai Dragon is what the new Gladiator beast support should have been...
No it's not
Making Glad Beast into an OTK archetype would have killed its identity just as much as what they currently did with it
@@Void-rj3sq Maybe not in terms of the sheer stupid numbers it can pump out, but absolutely that it should use the battle phase as a way to fuse into strong monsters and chain combo effects. Maybe make it so they come out in defense, or the big ones can't attack, and you get what Glad Beasts should have been (as someone whose first deck ever was Glad Beast).
MBT is speed running how many Deck communities he can upset. 😅
Still waiting on Konami to print an insane wave of Laval support.
@@zdelrod829or Flamvell
@zdelrod829 give me my x Sabers back the link monster they got wasn't even that good in it's own fuckjng deck
the outro where everyone is wrong is the best part!
TBF I can understand Feather Storm, it was played in Floo and Simorgh stuff, but Harpie didn't top with it
Everyone is wrong including MBT! Bro did not read half of those posts!
i agree, hexie094.
I think the biggest problem is to make 1 or 2 unbelivable broken hoping it will carry an archetype but in the end people just handtrap those specific cards and you have to look at rest of the garbage in your hand and just pass
Yeah, it's like putting a bandaid on an infected gash.
Sure, it's better than nothing at all, but it doesn't really help too much either.
The good old "good card that has to resolve or you're dead".
In the business, we call this the Junk Speeder effect.
This is why people complaining about Circular as a card was wild to me. The rest of the deck wasn't nearly as efficient and has Circular not been so ignorant the deck would have been one of the hundred other decks that got one piece of support that reads well but doesn't actually help instead of the mid tier, kind of meta if you squinted hard enough, probably not going to make it after Kash format deck it ended up being. It's like people felt entitled to be able to Ash whatever the newest card was and make the opponent turn skip like they're used to with these kinds of one-card supports.
@@geek593 “The deck” didn’t exist after circular. Cause you’d put circular in any cyberse deck and it’d be a better use of circular than pure Mathmech.
A few cards that I'm shocked nobody mentioned are the Vampire cards. cards like Vampire Ghost, a card that sends 2 cards, adds one, and gives you an extra normal summon for an archetype that loves being in the graveyard and normal summoning a bunch and single-handedly starts your familiar and retainer resource loop. Cards like The Zombie Vampire as well which was meant to combo off with their ability to steal cards through Vampire Voivode and Vampire Sucker weren't enough for the deck to see any play despite being able to bring out a ton of material.
Not to mention that Ghost also acts as a normal-summon-based Lava Golem during the enemy turn if Zombie World is up (which it probably will be) as long as you have any 2-tribute Vampire in hand, like Voivode
On the topic of the Baronne de Fleur ‘archetype’ can we get like more stuff of that art design? Shit slaps.
5:00
Who knows? Maybe when they release the card "JOKER IS F*CKING STRAIGHT MBT, GODDAMMIT", Arcana Knights will finally see play
"Straightforward Joker" as the name and the card art is him with 2 thought bubbles that go king X , Queen ♡
@@carpedm9846 "Joker's Ace" with king X, Queen X, Ace 👍
@@GenesisAkaG Joker's Questioning with King ?, Queen ?.
The Yosenju support in Rising Rampage. It gave them a lot of stuff, including the ability to finally use the Pendulums effectively... yet they didn't do jack all.
While it wasn’t legacy support, I’d have to say Dual Avatar Invitation. The card would be crazy in any other fusion deck. “Discard 1, summon 5 tokens, then fusion summon up to twice, but you can’t use your ED outside fusions.”
Imo invitation is what's holding that archetype.
It turns out what you fusion summon into matters now
They have received only one single card of legacy support, right? The new fusion? I would be interested in seeing what Dual Avatar could do if they had more support. They still only have two main deck monsters.
It is insane that the first and only time I've seen Fire Fist is in solo mode. They have tutors, they've got a special summon from hand that also brings one back from the graveyard, They have a legitimately amazing Link-2 that recovers a formation and foolishes!
(Also they have a bunch of awful, slow continuous traps that you cant use to combo firefist effects because they can only use face-up cards. They also have a fair amount of conditional effects that can flop or brick if things come in the wrong order or your opponent disrupts you.)
I played Fire Fist before, and thats all correct
i played back in 2012ish and fire fist was insane. deck was so annoying
4:58 "in which world is crystal wing bad?" isn't the question. it is "in which world is crystal wing enough?", and the answer is: not in this one.
Watching Joseph lose his mind from the wrong answers has gotten more fun than him reading the right answers
Especially that Nobleknight one. That one is fact because you Isolde is a Nobleknight by name, but without the token dude or Brothers, they were ineffective in the deck, and didn't combo into actual playmaker for the deck
The Joker's Straight line was so good
Idk man, can't people just have really good same-sex friends?
Ice Barriers really do just lack. But going Revealer->Defender->Pass in Master Duel, and me seeing a Floow player not be able to tribute summon, or Virtual World decking themselves because they didn't have the out for Defender will always be great.
Been figuring out more combos as I play them too, like Dewloren bouncing cards that I can immediately play again, Prior just being constant advantage by bringing whoever back from the grave, and the fact they can easily go into the level 7 for Deep Sea Prima Donna, pull out Warlock, then go into either Icejade or Swordsoul level 10 just feels nice.
Ice Barrier isn't a great deck, but boy is it fun to play
The deck is a lot more consistent with the new support. Been enjoying it a lot of simulators
I’m really excited to try out Ice Barrier with the Terminal Revenge cards. I think it could become the backbone of a strong, but probably not meta, Water Synchro deck with all the other recent White Aura & Ghoti & Icejade stuff
The new, new support actually makes the deck playable and actually able to combo to an extent. But the structure was just not good enough. And that's partly due to unnecessary water restrictions. Or lack of cohesion. Or lack of actually interruption.
It was rogue in OCG when the set came out where they can't make toad
TCG has toad so I'm excited to see where it goes from here
To be fair "De Fleur" is *sort of* it's own archetype. There are barely enough cards to call it that but my Konami naming conventions, "De Fleur" is an archetype.
I mean Glacier Beast is considered an archetype. It has three cards
Pretty sure an archetype needs a name to be refrenced in card effect text. “Fleur” is not mentioned, only specific monster names. And by that metric Glacial Beast also wouldn’t be one. Nor Digital Bug. But by anime rules, yea sure they’re an archetype
Just call it a series, or "Sherry's cards". There's no need for "erm actually".
Well calling something as 2 maindeck cards an archetype feels weird, and there is even weirder ones if you go down that path and only consider "sharing name" conventions, transcendosaurus are an archetype then. With only 4 extra deck cards that literally couldnt be summoned "in archetype" and a maindeck card that basically doesnt work for any other transcendosaurus cards.
@@Ak4ntor yea it’s gotta take more than a name. There’s too much weird stuff if it’s just shared names
"Let's see the outtakes where everyone is wrong"
Cue Farfa...
You dont have to do cloudians like that man. My brother is trying so hard to make them work.
I remember cooking hard with them about 10 years ago, haha. Water fairies had the best of both worlds at the time in terms of support, since you could run stuff like Salvage, Moray, and also fairy support along with Sanctuary and Divine Punishment. And for the small price of turning one to defense mode, you could special summon Wisel from hand 😂
They don't deserve to be on the list because Aerosol is not that good. Because of the one effect per turn clause.
@@chaotixthefox Exactly, so it *really* shouldnt have been the thumbnail... Poor cloudians
I'd like to give a shoutout to the brand new aroma support.
"Oh but it's great in plant piles!"
I don't want to play a pile, I want to play aroma. Give me my lifegain deck
me with ogdoadics/aliens/beetroopers.
To note, the Fleur was a series of cards that made up the majority of the cards in Sherry LeBlanc’s deck in 5Ds and was one of the side characters in one tournament with the robet men from the future, and Baronne De Fleur didn’t care about them one bit.
I can go on about the good cards that were more readily abused by other decks and archetypes, and how despite the whining portion at the end those cards do technically and probably fit the prompt. I mean you asked yourself what the Fleur archetype was.
While the others were very wrong. I have to say I am on the melodious posters side. While of course now these cards are played bevore the lede support these cards perfectly fitted the description and they did completly flop when they came out.
Neiroy, The Dream Mirror Traitor. It not only searches you a monster you can immediately special summon, but also uses that monster to activate one of your two very important field spells alongside another monster that you can special summon, and also transform immediately.
It's one of the most busted one-card combo starter I can think of but it's still not enough to save the terrible Dream Mirror archetype.
Dream mirror needs some love. But both neiroys are stupid good in the archetype
neiroy is so funny the guy reads like snake eyes ash
It's such a shame cuz I love the Dream Mirror Archetype
@@rescuerex7031 Dream mirror is sooooo fun
Tbf it literally loses to any handtrap and the moment it gets interrupted, that's it you're done pretty much.
In the defense of some of the wrong answers, there really are some cases where an archetype has 1 incredibly broken card but the rest of the archetype it's supposed to belong to is ass. For example, Baronne. The fact that MBT asked "what's the Fleur archetype?" proved their point exactly. Fleur was so bad and forgettable that the only thing people remembered about them was their boss.
In terme of compatitif, Battlin Boxer, I just finish the deck and my order came yesterday with an Armored XYZ package...
- Uppercut is a Stratos + counter recover + reborn
- Chief Second is a double normal + battle handtrap that banish without targeting,
- Announcer is a R. Rabbit but monster keep them effects + level modulation,
- Ring Announcer searchable special from hand + spell/trap destruction,
- Cross Counter nice negate + change an XYZ for another one
- King Dempsey is a XYZ Stratos + target protection on both players turns
And C79 is a special summon negate + a beater + monster removal on battle that does not destroy or target.
But being really fun, easy to learn and with Infernoble or Armored XYZ + F0 nor being bad it just keep being a fun deck
The last wave of DDD support should have done more for the deck. Gryphon reads like a custom card, headhunt is huge for the DDD endboard, and machinex is an insanely powerful monster In the deck for a litany of reasons. Even the field spell, which is admittedly not great, has its uses in combo lines as well as a potential ED lock depending on the board. The deck was always pretty complicated and involved, but it was really respectably powerful at the time. I know it topped a bit around release, but it petered out quickly, and by the time we got bystials and shifter started seeing more play, the deck just fell back into obscurity. A damn shame really.
DDD need a Prank-Kids Pranks/ Raidraptor - Roost style card to get lost ED monsters back into rotation as well as main deck monsters. Hell, they could give it a bit of spice by allowing you to cycle back face up extra deck monsters too for a draw. Also, just give em a damn omni-negate already Konami. Preferably one that’s NOT a generic ED boss.
@@torakandwolf6786 honestly, they don’t really need an omni. A second negate would be nice for stuff like talents, but really what they need more is consistency boosters. I’ve always thought they could use a card like melody of awakening dragon; discard 1 then add ad DD and a dark contract from deck or something, Or something that summons from deck would be immensely useful. Though I do agree, they would benefit a lot from an avarice effect somewhere. Maybe one day.
@@chrisburns9898 D/D/D needs something that lets them generate advantage / consistency with a foolish burial as a cost (let them send stuff like lamia, swirl slime, necro slime or, typhon to GY, and if you do, add a D/D or dark contract card). As kepler and contract with the gate being their only searches sometimes gives the deck big choke points.
MAYBE something that lets the special summon things from banishment would be nice
@@chrisburns9898 i mean the deck seems pretty consistent to me yeah, getting direct access to some contracts before truly committing would be nice but especially with the yubel support getting to keplar, copernicus and any other necessary ddd monster is easy as hell. The also have plenty of space for going second cards/board breakers. Yes they can be larger choke points but i think it would help but not solve the issue. At least for me the issue is that end board isn't strong or varied or flexible enough in the way in the it needs to be for kodern formats. especially when interrupted and the fact that gilgamesh is a really big choke point at times. I remember facing ddd players as a ddd player and dismantling their full board with low tier decks because they are essentially to easy to break. For instance at the time having siegfried, big ceaser, machinex, and head hunt with follow up/hand traps seems good. At some point it was but then you realize that without enough monster negates/protection you were kinda just stuck because the all it took was one good activation to wipe your board even IF the monster got stolen (especially if you were forced to shot gun head hunt). Then you have to remember the fact that in modern yugioh you might not always go full combo, ddd with full combo can be easily broken even with the seemingly string board, but when you only have machinex and head hunt or machinex and ceaser etc you've essentially lost a real game if yugioh.
The deck had national and ycs tops after the support. I think that's enough.
To be fair on the Isolde one, Noble Knights and Infernoble Knights are "technically" different archetypes. Yes, they have the same gimmick of equips and the text on several Infernoble cards help you slot in the Noble Knight equip spells, but they were still different decks that had different Extra Deck monsters that share a name on card text. Yes, Isolde was tremendous in Infernoble Knights, but for the OG Noble Knights, she didn't help.
It's literally Elemental HERO vs EVERY OTHER HERO archetype
First Twitter thread I’ve missed in 15+. But with time for thoughts to marinate; NOT A SINGLE PERSON MENTIONED DRAGOON. Not only did my man fail Dark Magician, he failed Red-Eyes, then managed to flop in the entire TCG.
It was mentioned I think the problem is that dragoon saw a lot of play he didn’t want to use cards that were independent powerful and saw play own it own
DM is too unsaveable to be worth mentioning
His comment on the stream was that Dark Magician did actually get several tops shortly after the release of Dragoon.
It was and still is played a lot and is super broken lol
Dragoon is an excellent card in Dark Magician after the BACH support gave them a Timaeus that says "I'm actually Poly for Dragoon lol".
I will forever resent POTE for printing a card as cool as Krawler Soma and it flopping because Spright and Tearlaments and Circular came out in the exact same set
Also I'll somewhat go to bat for the guy mentioning the older Melodious cards. Sure, those cards suddenly became good in the last like two weeks, but those cards are like half a decade old and were absolute trash for that entire duration.
It does prove something- there are a lot of decks that have potentially busted support that are just waiting for their moment.
Who knows, maybe we’ll get some Krawler support later down the line that will make people respect Soma.
@kataphrut7740 Krawler would specially need a rule change to make flip monsters chainable like traps or a card that isn’t OPT that does that. Krawler Soma being a +2 isn’t that impactful when all of the interaction being set up is broadcast to the opponent and isn’t even reactive since it requires your opponent to interact with them for the flip effects to actually happen barring a couple cards that can do it when you want (World Legacy Pawns). The link monsters are also hot garbage and don’t do anything to support the more control style gameplay that the flip monsters facilitate.
@@dariuspenner2528 a rule change cant make flip effects quick effect since you need to use an effect to flip them, which means they have to activate their effect in the next chain, you flip them on your turn while in an open main phase game state, or its the damage step
like changing it so that you can flip and actovate in the same chain means if i chain a needlebug nest all the cards it mills can be activated to that chain since the thing prevented both from activating is that their effects at start of chain weren't a thing (one is face down and we luckily dont have in deck quick effects)
wait crawler could use is a card thats says something like "flip a crawler face up and negate it for the turn: then have this card gain its effect" basically chain it to flip the crawler and the spell card or trap also adds its effect to he chain, but negate the crawler to avoid double dipping on flip effects
@heheheiamasupahstars A rule change absolutely could make flip effect monsters a quick effect, you’d just do the effect when resolving the chain. Your Needlebug Nest comparison doesn’t even make sense because the milling happens at resolution, at which point a new chain can start if there are any relevant effects. Making something like Krawler Spine a quick effect just makes it Raigeki Break with no discard cost. All you’d have to do is make a rule adjustment that allows cards with the “flip” type to flip themselves up at quick effect speed, allowing them to function identically to trap cards. They’d still be terrible, just slightly less terrible than they currently are because now you can be more reactive with your flip effects and something like World Legacy Pawns still has value in flipping cards back face down.
@@kataphrut7740 That's exactly what happened to the Ice Barrier SD cards, they weren't good enough but they did set up a foundation for the Terminal World cards to use.
You know... cloudian will definitely get new support soon.
if Clear World can get support, Cloudians can get another wave
It's sad no one talked about Ojamas. They have, hands down, some of the most broken spell cards ever printed, they pretty much say "what is a deck? Do your mean... Your third hand?" and do nothing at the end of the day
Ojama is ass because they still have to crutch on Blue resolving multiple times. It's a combo deck that has to play on turn 2 lmao
Tbf farfa's argument was that no matter how good it was( is broken) it didn't help BA to return but rather made other decks stronger
On release it didn't really help any other deck other than burning abyss but it was released in the tcg during toss format in 2019 so the deck was on its monster Mashup build with sekkas light so the impact wasn't all that important to it. Also the deck was still going strong as a rogue pick despite being so old hence the meme statements BA never dies. Sadly sekkas light was limited in the same dog water banlist of January 2020 that all the TOSS decks died in along with the pandemic a couple months after which means BA didn't get the attention to adapt the loss of sekkas light before people weren't really playing anymore till master duels release 2 years later when people saw the power creep BA was facing when it finally died. Honestly the archetype needs some actual support with its own archetypal spells to help it or some more extra deck monsters to support them (or both) since the archetype has some rather harsh restrictions comparatively
Imagine thinking Sera, the cornerstone of the traptrix archetype, didnt do anything for the archetype.
9:15 to be fair to this person, they were highlighting the fact that Melodious is CURRENTLY playable, but that the cards they posted came out waaay before the LEDE support, and did basically nothing for the archetype at the time of their release
I like how half the posters on the endcard were getting yelled at because they answered the question you asked and not the one you made up in your head in retrospect. You yelled at someone for showing you Melodious Bloom Harmonist and Ostinato because Melodious is playable in 2024 with the LEDE support??
Morphtronic Telefon is the most custom card ever. It can FTK or build any board that can be imagined. Yet it sees 0 play because of the whole concept of handtraps and sometimes your opponent makes you go second. Konami even made it an R in Master Duel, and that says all you need to know.
Tbf that's Konami making it easier if they need to ban it.
it saw a lot of play on release before ppl got bored of it
The ftk kind of needs curious to work. In Master duel you can't play it because all of the ftk cards are banned.
@@OsirusHandle Actually curious getting banned is why people stopped playing it.
melodious tbh is a correct thing for this thread, ostinato and the link are literally branded fusion that doesn't lock you and the link 2 is just summon 2 from deck, took ANOTHER wave of busted ass custom card support for the deck to finally do something
Yeah I have no idea why he was so pressed about Melodious, even the tweet was saying "Melodious is playable now, in 2024", but Ostinato and Bloom Harmonist are from fuckin 2018 and 2020 and MEGA FLOPPED on release, like what is he talking about?
I'd like to mention the Ancient Gear support.
Let's give them a new playable version of Golem that's a double search, multiple other searches on top of that, an extra normal, more ways to trigger Geartown pops, and a card that gives all their monsters target and destruction protection for a turn, and makes their effects unrespondable. That last one isn't even new, it came out eight years ago!
What do they do with all that? The same thing Tenpai does, but without being able to run 20 handtraps. Never mind!
I seriously wish AG support wasn't just "Make players want to play the big, un-special-summonable brick (or its retrains), hit hard, then die horrifically next turn"
Like, it wouldn't have killed them to make an AG that's a defensive wall. Or give them actual recursion outside of the horrible trap. Or even give them a fusion or ED monster that can actually further your plays. I say this as someone that played the deck extensively in high school and loves the deck aesthetic, Konami could've done so much more for the deck.
to be fair there's a lot of cards that don't need to be run in AGs so there's still a bit of room. the only monsters you ever need are the three Golems, Wyvern, Tanker, and Commander (and maybe Box and Frame if you're feeling spicy). then adding five spells and *one* continuous trap that you run the same amount of Commanders, and you still have space if you've been doing the right ratios.
2 Dark Golem, 1 AGG, 1-2 Ultimate Pound, 3 Wyvern, 3 Tanker, 2 Commander, 2 Catapult, 3 Fusion, 3 Advance, 2 Fortress, 3 Geartown, 2 Duel, and that's still at *minimum* 12 cards worth of non-engine.
@@lordflarus I think you could even cut cards from that list. I'd say 3 copies of Statue can replace the Ultimate Pounds since it's effectively extra copies of Golem. I've seen lists that only run one of Commander and Duel, and even Tanker, Fusion and Geartown could lose a copy since everything is so searchable. I'd say Wyvern, Advance and Statue when it comes are the only guaranteed 3-ofs.
Well to be fair, you DO need a PhD to play Ancient Gears optimally. Us normal people just don't get it.
didnt we do this one already? appliancer was in it?
edit after watching to the end again way to many mfs don't know that the criteria was the card saw 0 tops just like the last one we did.
Then the speedroid one is wrong because they did see tops.
This time its about Support that didnt do shit for the Archetype they where printed for. They maybe saw success in other Decks.
At least that is what i get out of the twitter post :p
To be fair Crawlers also got hit hard when they changed how monsters Effects worked when they were sent back to the deck. It turn Mind meld form the decks best card to a card that not only didnt work with the deck any more but activity made it worst.
Mind meld still works, it returns to hand, not deck. It only gets messed up if you go for the links
Ya that was how you would get Deus X on the field face-down so its kinda pointless to run mind meld in the deck.
@@DrAiPatch
The krawler floating effects that mind meld triggers also get deus X onto the field.
On top of that, krawler works best when paired with another flip synergistic archetype such as tindangle or prediction princess, both enabling easy access to those cards as well.
And if you are able to establish deus X, there isn't really much of a need for mind meld.
@@Argenta_Rosa the point was to play the deck pure my dude.
@@Argenta_Rosa I use krawler and a few other level 9 flips with prediction princess it slaps
Or does absolutely nothing
But when it slaps IT SLAPS
Evil Eyes Unleashed; Foolishes 2 cards then adds one of the equip spells to hand can banish itself from grave to equip a Selene to a just- summoned link, but none of this changes the fact that Evil Eye is an obscure deck from 2019.
"Joker's Straight I have ideological problems with." cracked me up.
5:37 unrelated but I have never noticed how weird Phantom Quartz's legs position is.
How did no one mention “Springans Tally-Ho” that card is cracked beyond belief
It was mentioned, just didn't make the cut for the video
It's not legacy support if the series its in is still going. If Springans got a new card now, it would be legacy support.
0:07 the reference 8:26 best part of the video
8:58 funny enough "Baronne de Fleur is a perfect example of whatMBT meant of "Busted support that wasn't able to make its origin deck / archetype (Fleur / Floral Knight) meta". Mostly Because Baronne is a perfect example of failed card design that was made disgustingly too generic
9:14 Funny enough Melodious would be a case of "this BUSTED support only became good after a later BUSTED support was released". Before legacy of destruction, those cards barely helped the archetype
9:27 What i said about melodious also applies here except times 11. As "Infernoble" could basically count as "spinoff of the original archetype that became meta, unlike its source archetype"
I like to believe that he doesn't recognize them as real noble knights due to them being f*ench
Phew... At least my War Rock tweet wasn't wrong
You know, I was more on the replies side of "the card is good but never did anything for the archetype" posts but upon rereading the prompt once you did say "it flops" so it is now time to laugh at everyone in the outro
Gladiator beasts just need a new link 1. With the effect(s):
Gladiator Beasts monsters you control are unaffected by your opponents card effects during the Main Phase. Your opponent cannot target this card for for an attack while it points to a monster. When this card is Link Summoned: Special summon 1 Gladiator Beast from your Deck in Attack Position. You cannot special summon monsters from the extra deck, except Gladiator Beast monsters the turn you activated this effect.
It'd do something.
9:00 the Fleur arctype is a 5ds synchro arctype associated with noble knight. centaur mina and one of the noble knight horses are the main tcg bridge between the two arctypes
Shoutout to the guy in chat talking about fire fist tribrigade FTK, you the real OG
Okay the Melodius "Wrong answer" actually has a good point if you actually read what they said
Ok the melodious and orcust girsu takes are kinda right. The wave with the link did literally nothing because setting up a fusion monster that basically just sat there and no follow up is pretty bad, now we actually have a decent target and a better engine. Girsu was good in the ocg but by the time we got it all the best targets for it’s tuner gimmick, token generation, and Armageddon knight effects were banned or power crept. “Ah yes this will go great with my banned lib and banned harp, ooh maybe ill set up a mekk knight board in current format!”
what arcana decks so badly need is a retrain of king's knight & jack's knight. queen's knight is fine to remain normal since there's a slew of normal support & she's a good unexpected dai target as is. the problem is she currently eats your normal summon in order for king's knight to be live - so you HAVE to summon her from deck with unexpected dai. even just adding "if queen's knight is on your field, you can special summon this card" to king's knight would help the deck's swarming. like ALREADY the deck is capable of it! you can get five bodies on the board ez if it wasn't for the fact king's knight and jack's knight are dead weight as is
the amount it can resource loop and outpace an opponent's resources already is INSANE power to it. it could be SO GOOD if it was given some new retrains because outresourcing your opponent and reshuffling all the resources from graveyard to deck over and over again makes it EXTREMELY annoying.
Say what you want about Fire Fists; Panda is a powerhouse. It specials itself, specials+triggers a Fire Fist monster in the GY and protects Fire Fists from boardwipes. It can also be summoned using the counter-trap, meaning your opponent will effectively need 3 boardwipes to out a Fire Fist board haha.
Cloudians are always like 1-3 cards away from being a meta deck it feels like, because the base cloudians don't have a once per turn clause, so Altus can potentially rip an opponent's entire hand turn 1 if you could get the counters for it, Acid Cloud can destroy all of their back row, and that other one who's name I don't remember can nuke all their monsters.
On top of that the one that summons puff ball can do it an infinite number of times per turn as well, so they're always like 1-3 cards away from being powerful.
BEF Zelos searches out your summon spam engine, gives all your monsters targeting + destruction protection, a free summon from hand, an additional counter, AND +500 ATK/DEF because all that wasn't enough, and yet by virtue of being giant beatsticks who do nothing but self-destruct (except Tetran, ily) they're still terrible.
Surprised no one mentioned BEF Zelos
Problem with these 1-off Effect Monster legacy support is that they give archetypes a big chokepoint where they didn't before
It was, it didn't make the cut
Morphtronic Telefon functionally gave the deck near infinite materials and its height was like the 8th best solitaire deck because
The fleur archetype does exist. There’s only 9 cards in it, one of which is newly banned, but it’s there. Another card of theirs you might know is Sauge de Fleur since it’s being teched a bit.
At this point, I'm convinced that ppl post a bad take on purpose just to make him go insane
At some point he may have to stop putting the Wrong corner in videos because the meta will then transition to "be wrong on purpose to get featured in a UA-cam video". Just encourages the wrong kind of answers.
Dark Infant @Ignister fits this as well, is a link-1, searches the field spell that is necessary if you want to make any plays on summon, makes space so you actually can use the field spell to summon, synergizes with the link-3 to have it summon three monsters and also freely changes it's attribute to whatever you need if you are going for the link-6.
All this, and all it does for the archetype is make it not dead on arrival and instead make it a barely playable rogue deck that only really wins games by knowledge checking your opponent
@ignister was an excellent deck at an unfortunate time. No real events to show what it could do for around nine months and five months before a game changing set that shifted it down from tier 1/2 contender to solid rogue. By the time YCS Charlotte brought events back it had been power crept twice.
Ignisters were pretty good last year and even made a ycs finals during pote format which they lost to mystic mine burn
However most of their success came from variants using a small mathmech engine, and that died with circular's ban
Test panther was a retrain of Test tiger. Which had the effect to get your GB with their effects. In Edison and today, the deck is playing R cat to summon a GB and TT so you get to play with a GB effect. It’s not a diversion from what the deck has always been doing.
This is where I would add a note about Umbral Horrors getting a monster that literally says “Drop 2 level 4 or lower fiend bodies in exchange for your normal summon” EXCEPT THAT THE CARD CAME OUT YEARS AGO AND HURT THE ORIGINAL RANK 4 STRATEGY BEING A LEVEL 2. AS ITS MAY 16, GHOST DROPPED 10 YEARS AGO AND A DAY
2:15 to be fair, almost every pendulum deck has this chokepoint in the form of Beyond the Pendulum. Majespecters just get their own, better version of it with the same crippling flaw for some reason
3:00 Amusingly though, post PHNI literally any deck can put this on the board by Instant Fusioning Master of Ham, which can just slap *any* flip monster onto the board face-down from hand or deck. Is it better than the Restricts? Probably not. Is it more fun? Absolutely
"By instant fusioning" 🗿🗿🗿
The outro was just MBT's Joker moment. He'll have another one in a week.
I think speedroid is one of those ba/pk type decks (at least it would be if the meta wasn't so unbelievably strong right now and for the concievable future) where it'll just keep reappearing as a playable rogue deck every now and then for a few years because any generic card that benefits decks like it even slightly will be completely busted in it. To be fair though, ba and pk had a far easier time playing turn 1 and played through a lot of interruption. Speedroid can do both of those things, but not quite well enough. We'll just wait and see I suppose.
Those decks all reward deck mastery so they're the perfect fit for that one guy at locals who buys one new card every year but still somehow tops.
Konami, I see what you do for other archetypes and pray for gravekeeper support. Redo my monsters. They reek of 2008. Let me activate a Necrovalley from the deck at QE speed, then lock it from being removed by my own effects until my next endphase to prevent it from just being one sided handtrap cheese. "How can you say that? Ishizu was format breaking!" You're right, if they ever worked in a gravekeeper's deck. Any "support" crippled by it's own field spell isn't really support.
I was one of the people who posted about Dragunity (whoops).
Remus/Legatus saw play in Dragon Link - but they didn't "save" the preexisting cards in their archetype; D-Link was playing Ravine anyway. I was thinking pure builds specifically.
I should probably get my reading comprehension checked either way, though :(
Remus wasn't even that good. It increased the ceiling of a deck that already had the highest ceiling out of any deck in the meta. A meta where Dragon Link wasn't topping because there weren't any events.
The Isolde one is funny. They didn't "Infer" that they were in a "Noble Knight" deck? The "Infernoble Knight" deck?
I can name so many monarch spell and traps that would be broken in other archetypes that its not even funny
I'm surprised junk speeder didn't make it.
Cards says "summon 5 from deck". Not enough .There even was multiple set-up to summon speeder projected by Accel stardust, baronne, or herald...
Still not enough.
I don't know what's worse. The face he's making in the thumbnail or the FUCKING ROBOT DANCE AT THE START OF EVERY FUCKING THREAD VIDEO.
To be fair the de fleur archetype does exist
the end of video segments of dumb comments is sooooo goood LMFAOOO
I actually made a pretty decent ice barrier deck when the new support had first dropped in master duel and ran the later for a small while
The ending was definitely my favorite part of this video
I want to give some grace to some of the people who got included in the post credits because they didn't understand what MBT meant in the prompt. A bunch of people thought that MBT meant "Broken looking legacy support that failed to make their archetype playable," when he meant, "Broken looking legacy support that, despite having broken text on it, didn't have a competitive top at all in anything." I'm not going to get mad at people for interpreting the prompt the way they did.
Mbt knows us too well, those wrong takes at the end are such a highlight 😂
Here's the obligatory Gladiator Beast broken field Konami is one step away from: If you control a Gladiator Beast, negate your opponents monsters effects except during the battle phase. Once per turn, do the Gladiator Beast thingy for free. If this card is in your GY banish it to do something Gladiator Beast adjacent.
Love when we first got the Altergeist support, Malwisp was the 1 thing that completely broke open the old style of the deck. The card was incredible. Custom card. But then they printed Poplar, which is Malwisp but infinitely better, for a better archetype. That didn't feel good.
Poplar playable in geists tho :)
Damn that intro just unlocked a hidden childhood memory
I am suprised no one mentioned the Nordic Link 1. That card is crazy.
Even funnier that they made a main deck card specifically to pay to cost of the Link so you don't have to go minus your entire hand to do it.
The altergeist point is very flawed. To get to the link 4 you're clearly gonna get 2 traps at lease of off hex and adminia plus a faker in hand to set up you're free compulse with silq. It's just as heavy on traps now as they ever were
i don't buy the "konami changed the deck", because Altergeist was always monster centric, but i agree with him in the point that not too many people were expecting to play against floodgates and a bunch of solemn judgements... that being said, that stopped being an issue a couple of years ago lol, newer decks go, "oh that was cute", and stomp you regardless.
Seconded to the Mayakashi cards, if they didn't have such an obvious chokepoints of "Imperm the Hajun" and "Called By the Dakki" they'd be a little better I guess. As is you dedicate half your extra deck to monsters that all have individual effects that are generally found collectively on a single boss monster of other archetypes.
Fire fist hits home. It's a great concept but it's also such a low ceiling
The Three Musketeers of Face Cards got so much cool stuff, but to my eternal sorrow will remain forever unplayable until they retrain the three Garnets at their core, and even then it's a long shot.
PS: What was the ever-loving point of giving them their own fusion card when the only fusion they have is that ancient fossil all the way back from 2009 that also happens to be complete dogwater?
I got so triggered when that one guy said "Isolde, Two Tales of the Noble Knights" and was so happy when Joseph cracked back. Isolde was the best Noble Knight card when it came out along the link era support, it was the best card when the Infernoble Knights came out and finally banned after the release of the 2nd wave of Infernoble support. It did everything you wanted for the deck. Binned your equip cards so you both thinned your deck, didn't have to rely on drawing 1-2 to make a good turn 1 board and could fully equip your Artorigus Xyz monsters, drew you a card, summoned any of your monsters, and didn't lock you into Noble Knights. I was so heartbroken when it got banned as we had relatively recently gotten the new support and the Isolde ban has damn near destroyed the deck.
But what did it do for Athurian Knights. It took a Token generator to make it worth while. Like it didn't actually do a whole lot compared to the other link 2 legacy + The 2 link 3 that saw play in decks OTHER then their associated decks.
Like you make Isolde and search something, send 4 and summon Medraut. Oh wait, Medraut requires no other monsters to work use it's effect.
@@SuperSayianWarrior It increased the rate at which you could go through your deck. Combine Isolde with Brothers and Round Table and you can generate lots of advantage as the game progresses. Have you ever seen people's reaction to it when you play it on them and start chaining End phase effects? It feels good, and more often than not forces them to waste cards destroying it because they aren't used to a card like it.
While Iyvanne made it good, Iyvanne also came out in the same set Isolde did along with Custennin which could special itself. An easy turn 1 combo was summon Medraut, equip Noble Arms, use Medraut effect to summon Iyvanne, Noble Arms gets destroyed due to effect, re-equip it to Iyvanne, Iyvanne triggers summoning a token, link off token and one knight for Isolde, bin 4 equips, summon Brothers, Brothers effect to shuffle back 3 equips to draw 1 card, go into either Rank 4 Artorigus or Sacred Custennin.
That was a 2 card combo with just vanilla Knights. Depending on what the rest of your hand looked like your end board could be anything from a Sacred Custennin that needs to be kaiju'd, to both Isolde with an Artorigus XYZ plus Ignoble Knight of High Laundsallyn with Round Table on board with 2 effects available and Avalon/Until Noble Arms are Needed in the back row.
On a VERY funny side note, if you start off your Medraut line using Noble Arms Caliburn and use it's effect at every possible opportunity then you gain 1500 LP that first turn and pretty much guarantee a win against Burn Decks because outside of Nurse Burn exactly none of them expect the opponent to have the ability to gain life.
Ghostrick nekomusume, a constant book of moon for every level 4 and Higher monster. Insane card effect, never saw relevant play cause you had to have another ghostrick face up on the field
Konami: “Hey there, archetype. Give me your identity and I’ll give you busted support. Huh, will you be playable…Yeah, sure…”
Magical Musketeer Max is a potential gigantic swing in card advantage but now represents the deck’s biggest choke point. I’d also say Battle Shogun is the same way. A lot of cards from that link Vrains pack weren’t as strong as the ones in the previous pack. It grabs Gateway and contributes to Gateway doing its infinite loop by spreading Bushido counters more easily, but it doesn’t fix what the deck loses to.
I wanna bring up Battlin Boxer Promoter. It says a lot that the archetype lock makes a Rescue Rabbit unplayable, even in pure Boxers
Yeah because the deck massively benefits from the gorillion different FIRE Warrior support cards printed over the years.
An archetypal rescue rabbit is great... unless it locks you out of like 90% of tools you can use to make the deck stronger. 😭
Oh my god I’m early
Um
“White Woman! Bussy! Gay!”
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thank you for the "damn my followers are wrong af" outro
funnily enough glad beasts still need the battle phase to combo off. the best starter is to cheat out the link 2 with tri-brigade to tag into two dudes for tamer editor.
Disagree that it "needs" the bp. It is a go 1st build a board deck, an uninterrupted Rescue Cat (or Fraktall with friends) would still win you the game (2-3 S/T negate Heracles, rarely 1 Domitianus, 2-3 neg Apolousa backed by Revolt), which won't happen in the handtrap.format but best the deck can do prob.
@@boraaksitozgun9912 you can play it that way but I've consistently hit master by jamming a ton of breakers and going second. 1 fraktall gets you to hera, domi, and a 4 mat apo. the deck was more viable in MD when you could simorgh link to summon the wind statue from deck which is protected from battle by domi.
@@boraaksitozgun9912I've had pretty decent success blind seconding with breakers. 1 fraktall ends on hera, dom, and a 4 mat apo. it's not fantastic but for only having to play 4 glads, the only hard garnet being augustus, in the main its a pretty efficient engine since if you draw 2 tri-brigades you can shuffle a glad back with ferrijit. the deck was a passable rogue deck back when the simorgh link was legal because dom would protect the statue from battle, but i manage to hit at least diamond every season.
I think some obvious ones no one brought up are the Alien links, busted and basically custom cards that still cannot save a core released mid-GX
Man, the bloopers on this one were 10/10
Yeah, it certainly did make him look like an illiterate clown with dementia since he couldn't read or remember what he started making a video about.
Pretty funny.