Its a shame that organisations and governments are not taking advantage of Mr. Varoufakis's intellect and knowledge in shaping progressive policies. I have not seen anybody who has this combination of analysis, articulation, inspiration and humour on matters of socio economic matters and politics. Yeah, sure you may not agree with all that he says, but no doubt he is one of the greatest minds that exist in the world today.
An excellent discussion! Definitely added to my knowledge of the recent history of Turkey and the Yugoslav territories. Yanis Varoufakis was a valuable contributor as usual.
I could not agree more. I disagree with almost everything he says and believes and I find him absolutely charming and his acumen enthralling. Many people on the left should learn that he is the exemplar for how you convert your ideological opponents: "analysis, articulation, inspiration and humor." I have even bought his books and read (gasp!) a Marxist economics text. And he is slowly convincing me of at least some of his points.
This woman’s interpretation of the issue, specific to emotions and perception, is so underestimated and yet so much a part of the problem. This was such an important session.
the part when Elif speaks about the role of emotions in human reasoning is a very nice example of why we need more women in public discussions, and in other spheres of life - they provide a more empathetic understanding and a new perspective of what is happening around us
Join DiEM25. I've listened to more and more of Yanis' talks on UA-cam and eventually I decided if I believe in what he's saying I should commit myself to membership of the movement, or else I'm not doing anything to help.
It was'nt Yanis, or any other important person of today, who brought me to DIEM 25. It was my desire to want to know most true things as possible and because I'm a socialist and skeptic as well.
@@MatthewMcVeagh Being a sceptic is not related to a particular issue, it's a position you take if you hear about something and wanted to know if its true. I don't take opinions as facts, noones, and I'm not a fanboy of anyone who believes all the things he/she says. We live in a world where lies and bias are a common and the truth often hidden. Scepticism is the way to find truth grounded in evidence.
@@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl Well there are a lot of forms of scepticism that are focused on particular issues, such as moral scepticism or religious scepticism. A person could have one of these positions, and not be sceptical about other things, thus it's perfectly reasonable to ask what exactly someone who claims to be sceptical is sceptical of. It's also not "a position you take if you hear about something and want to know if its true". That could probably be called 'truthseeking'. Scepticism means doubt or disbelief. It's also not per se a way to find truth grounded in evidence. If anything, it's more what you refer to in the second sentence: not taking opinions as facts, not believing all the things someone says. But this negative policy per se won't lead to a positive truth.
Yanis is closest to what I think is an accurate interpretation of the basic issue. Neoliberal neoclassical economic theory is the dominant narrative of govts all over the world. The established elites, beginning with Thatcher, stopped all the social programs that supported capitalism from eating itself from within. Housing is out of reach for ordinary people thanks to the ideology of free markets. The cultural problems stem from the economic instability. Anti immigrant sentiments come from economic insecurity--it almost seems that people with jobs and family support don't comprehend what the rest of us are going through. Job competition is a real fear. It is wrong to say that some people don't want to do shit jobs, that is just the totally wrong approach. In my home town, I could NOT get a job of any kind, because the temporary workers were favored because they were too afraid to stand up against inhuman, illegal behaviour by employers--all privatized now and doing what they like. Temporary workers do take jobs because they too are desperate. Pitting workers against each other for scarce work is the ultimate problem created by the political class. We need to participate in a functioning economy before we can be tolerant! If I am about to become homeless, am I not concerned about a job of any kind? Horvat is just wrong on that point, and should not keep saying that unless he wants to rile up more anger against academics.
People always blame a lack of regulation AFTER the fact, however as late as 2007 Economists were still making self-congratulatory speeches announcing how they'd tamed the Boom-Bust of Capitalism as part of what they called "The Great Moderation". There are the same Neo-classical (i.e. mainstream) economists who advocated Austerity policies in Europe to tackle the Financial Crisis, the same policies which are now slowly tearing the E>U apart.
Marx and Keynes have only been peripherally relevant in Europe for decades. Milton Friedman's Monetarism has been the most influential economic theory since the 1980s and was incorporated into the "Neoclassical synthesis" of old and new which advocated rational expectations and maximisation of utility by supply vs demand. A central assumption of this theory was that economies tended towards stable equilibria, however post-Keynesians such as Minsky argued the opposite was true - capitalist economies were inherently unstable and prone to Boom-Bust cycles. Austrian economists agreed with this but differed about how to deal with the inevitable crash when it came.
You've confused Neoliberalism (a political ideology) with Neoclassical Economics. Classical economists (such as Smith, Ricardo, Mill and Marx) are all long dead however their theories were incorporated into the Neo (meaning "new") classical theory which is what is taught in universities today.
There are two kinds of policies available to governments - Fiscal and Monetary. Milton Friedman advocated Monetary and his ideas were adopted and are in practice today. Keynes advocated Fiscal which is what you're also suggesting but which has so far not been tried.
Just because the Greeks overspent previously doesn't mean they aren't suffering under austerity policies now. Also, Greece isn't the only country where people are living beyond their means but they're currently the only country being punished for it! Remember the PIGS? Also, take a look at the PRIVATE debt levels in Italy and the UK... Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro and yet it was, despite everyone knowing that it's economy was weak and there was widespread corruption and overspending. Who's fault was that? It's easy to blame Greece for creating their own mess but the fact is they didn't do it alone. UK, French and German banks were happy to lend to them and German companies were happy to sell to them, as long as it was profitable! It's also the case that young people in Greece today (aged 18-25) aren't responsible for the mistakes that older generations made and yet they're the ones suffering the most because of them...
I am so amazed that in the course of this wonderful talk, that there was no mention of American hegemony. I'm American and feel a large share of the blame is on the U.S. We citizens of the world need to unite against corporate rule, demand democracy and transparency, demand a Green New Deal and human rights. Together, we have that power.
I'm very impressed by Horvat, his comparison of Europe today with 1980's Yugoslavia is very poignant. Varoufakis's quaint position of antieuropean europeanism and sarcasm I am familiar with. Shafak brings an interesting middle eastern view to the discussion and poses the question of the universality of fascism.
As a northerner who voted brexit here are a few things you need to know which blows this debate out of the water. 1.) im not working class - a big assumption in this debate is leave voters were working class which presumably means not degree educated. I’m also a software engineer by trade who works for a Canadian manufacturer 2.) im not old - another assumption in this debate was an age gap where young voters were remain and older voters were leave. The question is what is the definition of young and old Everybody with any intelligence knows the EU is not what it is professing to be: a democratic politic union. Yanks says repeatedly that a.) the EU will gonthe way of the Soviet Union and b.) a radical reform of the EU Is needed. If I had of voted remain in the EU I would have lied to myself and to people around the world. It would have looked like the EU is doing a great job andnthat the UK totally and wholly agreed with how the EU handles Greece, Italy etc... Yanis also states elsewhere that brexit will speed up the implosionnof the EU. This is what I want to happen. The EU should fail and then start again as a real democratic union rather than a currupt banker led union where the main concern is asset price inflation
It's called socialism yes you are right the story that it was the working class that voted primarily for Berexit is a myth just like in Germany it was more likely to be the lower middle-class to middle class who voted for Hitler .
Stuart88 not sure what fascism has to do with the brexit vote. Not sure where socialism is coming from either... Germany was suffering due to sanctions placed on it by western powers also similar to how the eu dictates legislation to the uk and other Eu members. Not sure what your definition of a low middle class person is either but I’m a software engineer and married to a dr so I’m probably upper middle class ☺️
Tom Schoonjans has just shown us all what pillocks remainers are. FYI I didnt read your stupid comment as soon as you lied with your ‘genuine stat’ comment 😘
@@faradrinhito bless you are you still here pleb? Meanwhile the oldest democracy in the world is being undermined (see ua-cam.com/video/N8zL6JWnMxU/v-deo.html ) and the UK's government attempts to make wood burners - an essential piece of kit giving FREE heating to homes - illegal. You might love living in a authoritarian state being told what to do, but some of us like being in control of our own lives. Theres nothing wrong with being a pleb i suppose, i expect you'd love to go back to pre capitalism era, living on the farm land as a peasant being given a carot at christmas as a gift for a years hard work
Bravo Yanis... the idea that it is possible to win a well established establishment certainly can help those who have lost hope of something like this ... in most countries in the world citizens are increasingly not voting because they do not believe that the change is possible that fits the establishment that has already been established So that the overburdened politicians and ideas survive much longer than they have public support ... and what is even worse tailor the fate of those who precisely because they no longer believe in the possibility of change do not vote ...
5 років тому
george w bush, tony blair and john howard took "care" of the refugee crisis we see today. it was planned well before inside 9/11 job. these three greatest criminals of the 21st century need to be held responsible and punished accordingly. NOW!!!
These are 3 very clever people who see all sorts of trends and directions and can illustrate them with powerful stories. I hope they're not in danger of presuming they're always right. I find it is impossible to know what is right and best when looking at a situation from a global, demographic perspective, because that is when we start seeing ourselves as human beings in that hazy half-way place far from the close-up of everyday detail and equally distant from our place in the natural world, where we're in danger of gobbling it up. If we see ourselves as a global community, this presupposes our ownership of the planet, rather than our tenancy on it. I worry about certain terms. "Ghettoizing" is sinister when used to describe the simple state of culturally similar people living in a community. There are plenty of strong communities of like-minded people who give each other support without being up in arms to destroy other communities. They might not go all out to embrace another's ways, but are polite and respectful. Why try to interfere with that? By the same token, "Cosmopolitan Elite" is also sinister, suggesting those who enjoy their luck in having the opportunity to connect with other cultures are out of touch with those who stay put. If there's a need for freedom of movement, it should be encouraged. Likewise, if there's a need for tight communities, why mess with them? Only when communities become desperate do they SOMETIMES become ghettoised, in which case, we should look out for them. There is not one way to be, and society shouldn't be bullied into feeling ashamed of its choices. Something else that bothers me in these talks is that no one mentions how to keep an economy thriving whilst curbing our consumerism. I'm saying this, because, underneath all the talk about capitalism, investment, democracy, etc, I bet we all feel shit scared about fast depleting resources, but are too afraid to think about it. But if we don't think about it, we continue with our contradictory ways of trying help the environment whilst trying to grow our economies in environmentally unhelpful ways. Even as we find a way of lessening carbon emissions, we are still ruining the coral beds which produce the gases that keep us alive. "Progressive" is a word I don't like either. It suggests that those who are simply trying to feed or warm themselves cannot contribute to the discussion. I'd rather aim for "Least harmful" instead. People who are "least harmful" may not make the history books, but they cope with everyday matters, often through gritted teeth, are nice to their neighbours, put food on the table for their kids, look after their gardens if they're lucky enough to have them, would recognize and welcome a refugee if they saw one. I think that the moral duty of the "Progressives" is to encourage people to move to or stay where they need to, to make schools everywhere the most exciting places to be, where interest for the globe is equally matched by fascination with local matters. I'm wondering how "progressive" the Progressives need to be? Could they instead concentrate on working out how to persuade the wealthy, who, fearful of the current political changes everywhere and not daring to invest, to invest in the environment - not necessarily with the latest green technology, or by distracting consumption from one source of energy to another - but by helping remind us humans that the remedies lie in what we used to have in abundance and what worked for millennia. Air, water, plants, soil. How badly we need to connect with them again, on a personal and biological level. And how much better it would be if, for example, the landowners in the North of England could be persuaded to invest in re-wilding programmes and change their moorlands we get so nostalgic about into proper forests. Wonderful well-paid jobs could be created in those places for nurturing a working ecosystem again. I sense that our current struggle with capitalism, democracy, neoliberalism, investment, growth, cultural identity has, at its roots, a very desperate human need for security. And if we feel our environment is in danger, surely all these often contradictory aspects of civilization we like to brow-beat each other with, will continue to be in crisis. Humanity needs to calm down, take a deep breath, and take in some decent air. And if we're going to only stay on this planet a little longer, lets leave having left the place, if not better, but with something we can rescue. Instead of modernizing the world and seeing it through the deomographic eyes, let's modernise our minds and think about how we can least harm our lovely world. In my view humility is the most modern quality a human can possess.
nah she is stupid..they are talking about economy and social issues..and she goes to talk about "diversity" and quotas..as if that was the solution to our problems...
Once we get the internet restrictions with national guidelines, it will be hard to find talks like that.. They are all very interesting people but Yianis has all the juicy points.
The EU won't reform itself if you leave it, either. The only way for it to actually change is from within, through active demands and reforms for a more democratic and direct approach to things. Because most European citizens object to that: That the EU is a collection of technocrats who are not even directly elected by them, yet still pass laws and guidelines as if they were the actual government. What the European citizens are NOT objecting to are the benefits that such a Union has brought upon its member states: To be able to drive from Lisbon to Helsinki without having to show your passport even once, to enjoy medical insurance throughout all of these countries, to not having to worry about exchange rates most of the time and be able to compare prices directly among many states, to have freedom of movement and employment throughout this Union... All of these things were considered unthinkable less than 30 years ago, yet here we are. The idea of the Brexit supporters that somehow, the UK can leave the EU but still enjoy all of its benefits (while denying some of them itself to some other member states, i.e. Schengen agreement) is moronic at best. Leaving means losing all the trade agreements, freedoms of movement, etc. This, in turn, will lead to significant mid-term losses for the UK economy, leading to higher unemployment figures and higher taxation.
Chloe Lin - But this is not a sinking ship, this is a moment in history that will change, as change is inevitable, whether we leave or we stay, or any other country leaves or stays, Europe will still be there, the ship will not. So just turning ones back is not an option!
@Camille Desmoulins And watch the EU fragment into two, the Eurozone crash and even more voters go to populism because their lives are ruined because good people could not be bothered to get together and demand change and reform. Yanis hates the EU and the Eurogroup and troika, but even he thinks that the EU needs to be saved along with the Eurozone. If we just let it crash and burn then Europe will burn too. The only thing stopping us is the amount of people and the way we ask for change. Simply going to Brussels and asking politely won't work, Cameron did that and got nothing of any substance.
Then, you should overthink your theoretic political propositions. Alt-right and movements like DieM do not fit together in any possible manner. You should first transform your political opinion in a more coherent system. I woulf say this is not possible with the anti-intellectual discourse of the Alt-right, but try it our for yourself. If your not clear about which arguments form the base of which political theory and how different theorems relate to each other, you will not be able to get to any logic standpoint on anything. You will, furthermore, be overwhelmingly influenced by rhetorics and stereotypical thinking and, thus, e.g. like DieM and reactionary anti-scientific fascist like the Alt-right. Best
Sure, good points. But I'm tired of people with strong ideological views. To me they're just ignorants. The world is far too complex to vigorously defend any ideology, the truth is generally somewhere in the middle. The problem with the middle .. is that they've abused the system, they've proven to be extremely corrupt and easily prey for corporate lobbying. The left has had its chances in the past and produced catastrophic results. The same with the right. Perhaps is best to accept that humanity is inherently flawed and corrupt..
Herr Otto Flick Communism is a vague idea and nothing more. Perhaps you meant Socialism, in which case you would have to define what kind of Socialist economy you specifically want to ban. Leninism? Syndicalism? Mutualism? Communalism? And just so we're clear, Communists ARE better than Nazis. Communists killed a lot of people because their countries ended up with mentally ill dictators (Stalin/Pol Pot) or people with zero understanding of ecology (Mao) and have actually established societies that didn't kill vast swathes of the population (Catelonia, the Free Territory, EZLN-Chiapas, Rojava). You absolutely CANNOT have a Nazi society that doesn't kill vast swathes of its own population. The entire Nazi ideology is built around killing people, Communism is not.
Horvat, how are the languages that were present in Yugoslavia the same? You could say Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian are the same, but Albanian is different, Hungarian is different, the Roma community with their own language etc etc
I never understand why the word "populism" is treated as if it were a dirty word? Surely it comes from the word popular, and surely in a true democracy popular policies, whether they are right or wrong, should prevail. Instead, the attitude seems to be that populism means the attitude of the illiterate uneducated and uninformed, and that were they to enjoy the enlightenment of the "elite" they would see the error of their ways and do what the politicians, in their infinite wisdom, want them to do, under the guise of "leadership". In less enlightened times the "populous" would have exercised their "populism" with the assistance of torches, pitchforks and the guillotine. We are fortunate that do have universal suffrage and the ability to vote... all we need now is politicians who understand this. I believe that the Labour party is starting to get it as despite their personal feelings they have voted to support A50, what we need now is more politicians who actually understand where the populous are. Too many are suffering the effects of de-industrialisation and not all of them can retrain as computer programmers. This is going to get worse - we are already seeing machines replacing checkout operators, warehouse operatives, street sweepers, what do we go when the machines are doing all of the work... the main flaw in this from an economic perspective is that machines do not buy anything! Unless we address this looming development we may just return to less enlightened means of equalising wealth.
The sad problem for the Remain camp is that they cannot see there are huge opportunities with Brexit rather than being "Little Europeans". The EU is only 5% of the World's population and needs to reform and perhaps Brexit will be a catalyst. The UK would be bankrupted by remaining in the EU so it's not even an argument.
Elif Shafak made very good points re democracy and diversity. Scary prognosis on the US economy under Trump by Yanis. Whatever these two say Brexit is or however such is claimed to be, I see Brexit as a move in the right direction, back to smaller states and reduced decentralization, and away from away gross centralization and antidemocratic elite leagues such as NATO and the EU.
rd264 Agree about the smaller states, But we have to be very clear about our wording. Brexit has created a lot of propaganda (by the main stream media and the politicians), about what the Brits feel about Europe and Europeans. Most Brits love Europe its people and its cultures. But just as most Europeans do, we hate the corrupt few that are destroying the people by austerity!
Let me bring this back to the US. Our new industries are causing these issues. Take example cost of living in a city like Charlotte. Average 2 bedroom apartment $1500 but the average jobs does not want to pay 3000.00 per month! Like Spanky L said, if you are a part time employee with 3 or 4 hours a day, how can you pay 1500 a month for rent? Don’t get me started with the 2,3 jobs that people hold and still cannot afford their living. We as a society cannot go on like this.
I don’t think he is wrong. Trumps did increased deficit and tax cut, suppressed China, china sold US bond, there is real estate bubble bursting in China. What he didn’t predict was the pandemic and countries governments response to it.
I'm slightly more than half way through this. I didn't realize it was from 2017 until Varoufakis started talking about Trump's positions. These were his stated positions in 2017, but we haven't seen too much of that any time recently. This year, before Trump's re-election , it looks like to me, he might be getting ready to fail just like Varoufakis feared when this discussion took place.
Right, I watched this discourse when it came out and was nodding my head most of the way through it! Today. well how wrong they were! Let me start with Elif. A truly wonderful human being, unfortunately as most delusional socialists are she is entrenched in the idea that humans are intrinsically good and she continually refers to the idea of nuance not polarity. HOSRESHIT! Most humans ARE nuanced and when faced with prosperity over unity will stab each other as soon as smile at each other, we can be real arseholes! She referred to Trump as stating falsehoods and falling back on "prove me wrong" as his defense when challenged. If someone calls you a liar is it wrong to say "prove it"? Then there is Yanis. He is VERY eloquent but as with all economists he is logical, methodical and mathematically fettered! His main points were that Brexit was not a given at the time and lets see what happens. It happened! Then he propounds that Margaret Thatcher was evil for introducing austerity measures when Britain was BANCRUPT and accruing debt exponentially! Perhaps if Thatcher had been the Prime Minister of Greece their catastrophe may not have been as severe as it is today. Food for thought! Successive Greek governments were too gutless in nipping the debt crisis in the bud and just kept passing the overflowing debt chalice to the following government. If you spend more than you earn you are facing financial disaster sooner or later, no economics doctorate needed there! And then again the "Trump is evil" narrative is passed from Elif to Yanis. BIG YAWN! Stop distilling the situation down to good against evil! For fucks sake that is simplistic moronic shit! Ah now we come to my favorite. Srecko, sorry I don't know how to write the Slavic "ch" so that will do. By the way the word for Diarrhea in Croatian is srecka, not a lot of difference there! and very appropriate! I am a Croatian who escaped the poverty stricken basket case of a Yugoslav Federation in 1970 so I know what I'm talking about! How can he be a Communist because that is what he appears to be after detailing that the reason for the dissolution of the Yugoslav Federation was the failure of the communist regime to sustain itself economically? Is he retarded? REALLY! His hope for Britain was Jeremy Corbin and DiEM25, quite clearly a communist solution. Didn't happen, thank God! What all these Delusional Socialist Utopianists fail to realize is that communism or it's more palatable descriptor Socialism is a failed ideology! All system of governments are good until you throw people into the mix! Socialism in it's true form inevitably as a government turns opaque and reverts to authoritarian corrupt power centralization with economic collapse, as has been evident without exception. The workers paradise did not collapse because of social unrest! It collapsed because it failed economically! Stop DELUDING yourselves! I was a socialist/communist once with all the rosy glassed determination that denying reality comes with ! WAS! The theory of socialism is a truly beautiful thing that comes closer to what Jesus taught than any other system of government, ( I truly believe that!) by the way it did not end well for him, spoiler alert!, a wonderful well meaning concept that should work because we all want to love each other and live well, share the wealth and prosper, well that as I said is the SOCIALIST UTOPIAN DELUSION! Unfortunately that is not the reality! Face the facts and overcome the desire to live in the delusion! Hope you all have good day! Love and kisses from a realist.
Min 20.12 " isolationism never contributes to democracy.." watching this in 2021.. seems a lot of the points made here are not wearing off with time but rather becoming more relevant
I find it funny how each claims multiculturalism is the best thing, and at the same time argue that their particular region is the best example for the problems of the future
Well, I don't agree with his politics but Yanis Varoufakis is at least well informed, honest in his opinions, rational and in consequence, challenging of others perspectives. Fuck knows where they dug up the other two. Our ''former Yugoslavian'' clearly hadn't a clue about even the establishment of former Yugoslavia.
not convinced, i still am resolved to leave the EU, and this debate, has been to change those from wanting to leave, to decide to remain if its possible, so they're still AT IT
Progressives are so intolerant and unwilling to accept that what they denounce as "populism" are genuine greviences, unfairness after many years government and EU ineptitude .Still each panelist denounced Brexit .It was a manifesto promised opportunity taken to protest which reset the political landscape .In response the Left called them "stupid", abandoned them again in favour of jaw dropping and irrelatable, compelled wokery. After the self inflicted article 16 "vaccine blunder" by the EU and the UK's application to join CPTPP - Brexit finally vindicated by political unity in the UK and ROI .
If we need to talk about emotion then why does the EU's principles of four freedoms of movement of people, goods, capital, and services not include emotions?
Of course you don't; your lesions in democracy are self inflicted and plenty. It's just a joke, I agree with you of course; how can someone born somewhere else possibly know anything?
+John Reedy Haha, funny. I'll give you that, you've got a sense of humour. :P BTW, "piss project INDEED". I like this Croatian peasant. He's cute for a peasant.
Diversity needs to be defined and qualified properly: Ottoman diversity was a diversity that came from pre-existing identity groups living on those lands that were there before the Ottoman empire ruled and pulled them under the same umbrella. This definition of Diversity, should not be confused with the idea of a diversity that arises out of uprooting people causing them to have to escape and immigrate from their own countries due to lack of safety and work, and then end up generating cultural clashes and contemporary ghettoes. It is important to understand connections between people and people, people and land, etc.
War in Yugoslavia was not between Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks, it was sourced out between different concepts of organizing the state itself. The nationalists of all mentioned nations used crisis to create climate of conflict between Balkan nations to destroy the state of Yugoslavia for their private interest and economic profit by privatizing state property... Once again war in Yougoslavia had to be presented to the world as national conflict, while the only side that came out victorious are neoliberals and their pockets. That's the way things are still all over ex-yugoslav countries.
I always enjoy listening to Varoufakis, but his response to the British vote to leave the EU is typical of the left. Pay lip service to respecting the referendum result, move to a Norwegian-style position where you are effectively still in the EU in all but name, then kick everything into the long grass, with the hope of re-entering the EU officially in the future. That's not what people voted for. They were promised an "In/Out" referendum by Cameron, who made it clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. It's only the left that claims that people didn't understand that, because it won't accept the result.
Ding Ting - with all due respect , the British people (of which I am one), had the vote thrust upon us from out of nowhere! There was no rumblings at all with regards to leaving the EU amongst the public. Yes there was discontent, but much more so about 2008 crash, and those responsible than the EU and its issues. Then we had only a matter of months to make a decision! It is no wonder that the decisions that people were forced to make are now having doubts. A decision of that magnitude should have been given years to decide, not months! And most British People agree. ‘Varoufakis’s position is not as you describe, his position is that Europe is worth fighting for, but not as it is. His position is to change it for the better, and that being the case, you would see a very different stance from the British people.
I'm afraid that you are mistaken. Mr Varoufakis proposes that a moratorium period of 5 years is to be given in order to decide (alongside EU) the type of brexit that the UK wants. Brexit will happen.
Two questions. What is the psychological condition Mr Horvat refers to at 33:35 fetishes of....? Second, anyone have a link to what Mr Horvat refers to as largest binge of weapons exports from US to Germany in January 2017....?
Well in retrospect Yanis was a little off on his forecast. Probably because Trump never actually invested in infrastructure. But most of the unions are already striking so I think he lost them. We'll see what shit storm starts when the bubble bursts in a year or so.
Yanis says "If you want to understand Brexit then go and watch a Ken Loach movie." Those same people those movies often portray, who have been most affected by Tory austerity (nothing to do with the EU) - will still vote for the Tories - this time because they want Brexit! To me it's like Oliver Twist holding up his begging bowl and saying "Please sir, I want some more."
I think it exposes our political parties for what they are, 'self-interest groups' maybe the solution is to only vote for suitable independents, that way future governments would be a coalition and more likely represent most of the electorate and might consider what’s best for the country before that of the self interest group that promoted their candidacy!
the division of the world became through religions and it is still valid. I am surprised that such high calibre speakers miss the actual point and higher perspective. Only one question has been asked and never answered in this discussion, the question that would have led them to the correct answers.
Its a shame that organisations and governments are not taking advantage of Mr. Varoufakis's intellect and knowledge in shaping progressive policies. I have not seen anybody who has this combination of analysis, articulation, inspiration and humour on matters of socio economic matters and politics. Yeah, sure you may not agree with all that he says, but no doubt he is one of the greatest minds that exist in the world today.
An excellent discussion! Definitely added to my knowledge of the recent history of Turkey and the Yugoslav territories. Yanis Varoufakis was a valuable contributor as usual.
Varoufakis is a fraud you moron.............a lefty nob head fraud
really? can you prove that he is fraud except using the Greek/EU media?
I could not agree more. I disagree with almost everything he says and believes and I find him absolutely charming and his acumen enthralling. Many people on the left should learn that he is the exemplar for how you convert your ideological opponents: "analysis, articulation, inspiration and humor." I have even bought his books and read (gasp!) a Marxist economics text. And he is slowly convincing me of at least some of his points.
I would lay down to you to watch his talk with noam Chomsky.
This woman’s interpretation of the issue, specific to emotions and perception, is so underestimated and yet so much a part of the problem.
This was such an important session.
Elif, I am so proud of you as a Turk. Yanis, you are the smartest economist in this world.
chuck martin the only wise one.
You resonate my thoughts!
She is annoying as fuck
Prof. Wolff?
Elif is not only smart and well informed, she is also beautiful.
the part when Elif speaks about the role of emotions in human reasoning is a very nice example of why we need more women in public discussions, and in other spheres of life - they provide a more empathetic understanding and a new perspective of what is happening around us
Oh, what a great explanation from Elif ! Should be spread out much more . Also Srećo´s analyses is remarkable... Yanis as always brilliant...
Join DiEM25. I've listened to more and more of Yanis' talks on UA-cam and eventually I decided if I believe in what he's saying I should commit myself to membership of the movement, or else I'm not doing anything to help.
Indeed! His talks also inspired me to join the movement.
It was'nt Yanis, or any other important person of today, who brought me to DIEM 25. It was my desire to want to know most true things as possible and because I'm a socialist and skeptic as well.
@@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl What are you a sceptic of?
@@MatthewMcVeagh Being a sceptic is not related to a particular issue, it's a position you take if you hear about something and wanted to know if its true. I don't take opinions as facts, noones, and I'm not a fanboy of anyone who believes all the things he/she says. We live in a world where lies and bias are a common and the truth often hidden. Scepticism is the way to find truth grounded in evidence.
@@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl Well there are a lot of forms of scepticism that are focused on particular issues, such as moral scepticism or religious scepticism. A person could have one of these positions, and not be sceptical about other things, thus it's perfectly reasonable to ask what exactly someone who claims to be sceptical is sceptical of.
It's also not "a position you take if you hear about something and want to know if its true". That could probably be called 'truthseeking'. Scepticism means doubt or disbelief.
It's also not per se a way to find truth grounded in evidence. If anything, it's more what you refer to in the second sentence: not taking opinions as facts, not believing all the things someone says. But this negative policy per se won't lead to a positive truth.
In the end everything will be OK. If is not OK, then it is not the End.
I needed to listen simething like that.
Yanis is closest to what I think is an accurate interpretation of the basic issue. Neoliberal neoclassical economic theory is the dominant narrative of govts all over the world. The established elites, beginning with Thatcher, stopped all the social programs that supported capitalism from eating itself from within. Housing is out of reach for ordinary people thanks to the ideology of free markets. The cultural problems stem from the economic instability. Anti immigrant sentiments come from economic insecurity--it almost seems that people with jobs and family support don't comprehend what the rest of us are going through. Job competition is a real fear. It is wrong to say that some people don't want to do shit jobs, that is just the totally wrong approach. In my home town, I could NOT get a job of any kind, because the temporary workers were favored because they were too afraid to stand up against inhuman, illegal behaviour by employers--all privatized now and doing what they like. Temporary workers do take jobs because they too are desperate. Pitting workers against each other for scarce work is the ultimate problem created by the political class. We need to participate in a functioning economy before we can be tolerant! If I am about to become homeless, am I not concerned about a job of any kind? Horvat is just wrong on that point, and should not keep saying that unless he wants to rile up more anger against academics.
People always blame a lack of regulation AFTER the fact, however as late as 2007 Economists were still making self-congratulatory speeches announcing how they'd tamed the Boom-Bust of Capitalism as part of what they called "The Great Moderation". There are the same Neo-classical (i.e. mainstream) economists who advocated Austerity policies in Europe to tackle the Financial Crisis, the same policies which are now slowly tearing the E>U apart.
Marx and Keynes have only been peripherally relevant in Europe for decades. Milton Friedman's Monetarism has been the most influential economic theory since the 1980s and was incorporated into the "Neoclassical synthesis" of old and new which advocated rational expectations and maximisation of utility by supply vs demand.
A central assumption of this theory was that economies tended towards stable equilibria, however post-Keynesians such as Minsky argued the opposite was true - capitalist economies were inherently unstable and prone to Boom-Bust cycles. Austrian economists agreed with this but differed about how to deal with the inevitable crash when it came.
You've confused Neoliberalism (a political ideology) with Neoclassical Economics. Classical economists (such as Smith, Ricardo, Mill and Marx) are all long dead however their theories were incorporated into the Neo (meaning "new") classical theory which is what is taught in universities today.
There are two kinds of policies available to governments - Fiscal and Monetary. Milton Friedman advocated Monetary and his ideas were adopted and are in practice today. Keynes advocated Fiscal which is what you're also suggesting but which has so far not been tried.
Just because the Greeks overspent previously doesn't mean they aren't suffering under austerity policies now. Also, Greece isn't the only country where people are living beyond their means but they're currently the only country being punished for it! Remember the PIGS? Also, take a look at the PRIVATE debt levels in Italy and the UK...
Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro and yet it was, despite everyone knowing that it's economy was weak and there was widespread corruption and overspending. Who's fault was that?
It's easy to blame Greece for creating their own mess but the fact is they didn't do it alone. UK, French and German banks were happy to lend to them and German companies were happy to sell to them, as long as it was profitable!
It's also the case that young people in Greece today (aged 18-25) aren't responsible for the mistakes that older generations made and yet they're the ones suffering the most because of them...
Varoufakis owns the show,again!
Take it from a true Greek,who actually lives here! This guy is a globalist who works for George Soros and works for a new world order.
@@willtherealgeorgemichaelpl5879 onother bullshit from Golden dawn guy. Varoufakis he lives in the moment he say thinks as it is.
The Turkish speaker really hitting on great points!
I am so amazed that in the course of this wonderful talk, that there was no mention of American hegemony. I'm American and feel a large share of the blame is on the U.S. We citizens of the world need to unite against corporate rule, demand democracy and transparency, demand a Green New Deal and human rights. Together, we have that power.
I'm very impressed by Horvat, his comparison of Europe today with 1980's Yugoslavia is very poignant. Varoufakis's quaint position of antieuropean europeanism and sarcasm I am familiar with. Shafak brings an interesting middle eastern view to the discussion and poses the question of the universality of fascism.
Fuck you bitch
The interviewer was very good, he helped the discussion have a positive, informal manner.
God I love varoufakis.
+spinning nonsense you do not listen to him,
garos that woman is fucking hot,her mannerisms,don't get them anymore from the ladies
@spinning nonsens: And you honour your name....
lol what are you talking about Spinning, you spanner
actually I want automated machines to pay for everyone's lives, perhaps you could count them as stupid
Yanis - spot on as always, gets right to the point in a clear and digestible manner
that story that yanis told near the end was so dam heartbreaking
2 years later and this sounds like it couldve been filmed yesterday
What Elif said about tribalism is so so right. And I'm from former Jugoslavija.
gregor fon Nope
Fantastic talk. All of them are excellent thinkers and talkers.
The Man with the most sensible approach to this problem is Yanis!!
So enriching! I'm now very interested in checking what actually happened in Yugoslavia.
can you tell me anything new in Yugoslavia？
As a northerner who voted brexit here are a few things you need to know which blows this debate out of the water.
1.) im not working class - a big assumption in this debate is leave voters were working class which presumably means not degree educated. I’m also a software engineer by trade who works for a Canadian manufacturer
2.) im not old - another assumption in this debate was an age gap where young voters were remain and older voters were leave. The question is what is the definition of young and old
Everybody with any intelligence knows the EU is not what it is professing to be: a democratic politic union. Yanks says repeatedly that a.) the EU will gonthe way of the Soviet Union and b.) a radical reform of the EU Is needed.
If I had of voted remain in the EU I would have lied to myself and to people around the world. It would have looked like the EU is doing a great job andnthat the UK totally and wholly agreed with how the EU handles Greece, Italy etc... Yanis also states elsewhere that brexit will speed up the implosionnof the EU. This is what I want to happen. The EU should fail and then start again as a real democratic union rather than a currupt banker led union where the main concern is asset price inflation
It's called socialism yes you are right the story that it was the working class that voted primarily for Berexit is a myth just like in Germany it was more likely to be the lower middle-class to middle class who voted for Hitler .
Stuart88 not sure what fascism has to do with the brexit vote. Not sure where socialism is coming from either... Germany was suffering due to sanctions placed on it by western powers also similar to how the eu dictates legislation to the uk and other Eu members. Not sure what your definition of a low middle class person is either but I’m a software engineer and married to a dr so I’m probably upper middle class ☺️
Tom Schoonjans id love you to link this ‘genuine statistic’ mate from a uk .gov site please
Tom Schoonjans has just shown us all what pillocks remainers are. FYI I didnt read your stupid comment as soon as you lied with your ‘genuine stat’ comment 😘
@@faradrinhito bless you are you still here pleb? Meanwhile the oldest democracy in the world is being undermined (see ua-cam.com/video/N8zL6JWnMxU/v-deo.html ) and the UK's government attempts to make wood burners - an essential piece of kit giving FREE heating to homes - illegal. You might love living in a authoritarian state being told what to do, but some of us like being in control of our own lives. Theres nothing wrong with being a pleb i suppose, i expect you'd love to go back to pre capitalism era, living on the farm land as a peasant being given a carot at christmas as a gift for a years hard work
Bravo Yanis... the idea that it is possible to win a well established establishment
certainly can help those who have lost hope of something like this ...
in most countries in the world citizens are increasingly not voting
because they do not believe that the change is possible that fits the
establishment that has already been established So that the overburdened
politicians and ideas survive much longer than they have public support
... and what is even worse tailor the fate of those who precisely because they no longer believe in the possibility of change do not vote ...
george w bush, tony blair and john howard took "care" of the refugee crisis we see today. it was planned well before inside 9/11 job. these three greatest criminals of the 21st century need to be held responsible and punished accordingly. NOW!!!
These are 3 very clever people who see all sorts of trends and directions and can illustrate them with powerful stories. I hope they're not in danger of presuming they're always right. I find it is impossible to know what is right and best when looking at a situation from a global, demographic perspective, because that is when we start seeing ourselves as human beings in that hazy half-way place far from the close-up of everyday detail and equally distant from our place in the natural world, where we're in danger of gobbling it up. If we see ourselves as a global community, this presupposes our ownership of the planet, rather than our tenancy on it. I worry about certain terms. "Ghettoizing" is sinister when used to describe the simple state of culturally similar people living in a community. There are plenty of strong communities of like-minded people who give each other support without being up in arms to destroy other communities. They might not go all out to embrace another's ways, but are polite and respectful. Why try to interfere with that? By the same token, "Cosmopolitan Elite" is also sinister, suggesting those who enjoy their luck in having the opportunity to connect with other cultures are out of touch with those who stay put. If there's a need for freedom of movement, it should be encouraged. Likewise, if there's a need for tight communities, why mess with them? Only when communities become desperate do they SOMETIMES become ghettoised, in which case, we should look out for them. There is not one way to be, and society shouldn't be bullied into feeling ashamed of its choices. Something else that bothers me in these talks is that no one mentions how to keep an economy thriving whilst curbing our consumerism. I'm saying this, because, underneath all the talk about capitalism, investment, democracy, etc, I bet we all feel shit scared about fast depleting resources, but are too afraid to think about it. But if we don't think about it, we continue with our contradictory ways of trying help the environment whilst trying to grow our economies in environmentally unhelpful ways. Even as we find a way of lessening carbon emissions, we are still ruining the coral beds which produce the gases that keep us alive. "Progressive" is a word I don't like either. It suggests that those who are simply trying to feed or warm themselves cannot contribute to the discussion. I'd rather aim for "Least harmful" instead. People who are "least harmful" may not make the history books, but they cope with everyday matters, often through gritted teeth, are nice to their neighbours, put food on the table for their kids, look after their gardens if they're lucky enough to have them, would recognize and welcome a refugee if they saw one. I think that the moral duty of the "Progressives" is to encourage people to move to or stay where they need to, to make schools everywhere the most exciting places to be, where interest for the globe is equally matched by fascination with local matters. I'm wondering how "progressive" the Progressives need to be? Could they instead concentrate on working out how to persuade the wealthy, who, fearful of the current political changes everywhere and not daring to invest, to invest in the environment - not necessarily with the latest green technology, or by distracting consumption from one source of energy to another - but by helping remind us humans that the remedies lie in what we used to have in abundance and what worked for millennia. Air, water, plants, soil. How badly we need to connect with them again, on a personal and biological level. And how much better it would be if, for example, the landowners in the North of England could be persuaded to invest in re-wilding programmes and change their moorlands we get so nostalgic about into proper forests. Wonderful well-paid jobs could be created in those places for nurturing a working ecosystem again. I sense that our current struggle with capitalism, democracy, neoliberalism, investment, growth, cultural identity has, at its roots, a very desperate human need for security. And if we feel our environment is in danger, surely all these often contradictory aspects of civilization we like to brow-beat each other with, will continue to be in crisis. Humanity needs to calm down, take a deep breath, and take in some decent air. And if we're going to only stay on this planet a little longer, lets leave having left the place, if not better, but with something we can rescue. Instead of modernizing the world and seeing it through the deomographic eyes, let's modernise our minds and think about how we can least harm our lovely world. In my view humility is the most modern quality a human can possess.
O. M. G. I LOVE THIS MAN... VAROUFAKIS. EVERY THING MAKES SENSE... E. M. N. S FROM BLOOMINGTON INDIANA
An entire hour and a half and Mélenchon not even mentioned ?
Taboo is not BBC but HBO, Srecko! But I love it as well. And thank you all, guys!
Ending all wars would solve all problems internationally! People would be able to fix everything else.
Elif Shafak is one of the most intelligent & elegant women I have ever seen. :)
Nina V. Duca if in your country wemn are stupid, you might consider her smart. Where did she see democracy in Europe?
and gorgeous on top of that
nah she is stupid..they are talking about economy and social issues..and she goes to talk about "diversity" and quotas..as if that was the solution to our problems...
Yes she is.
I must say I suffered through the first 38 mins(now), and I learned something.
"The opposite of hatred is Indifference." No more did the phrase 'Evil succeeds when good men do nothing' become more important.
Elie Wiesel: The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.
How petty of me to focus on this one mistake, my thanks to the panel!
The sound of the penny finally dropping is good to hear
Once we get the internet restrictions with national guidelines, it will be hard to find talks like that.. They are all very interesting people but Yianis has all the juicy points.
Yanis is right but the EU won't reform itself, that why Brexit happened.
The EU won't reform itself if you leave it, either. The only way for it to actually change is from within, through active demands and reforms for a more democratic and direct approach to things. Because most European citizens object to that: That the EU is a collection of technocrats who are not even directly elected by them, yet still pass laws and guidelines as if they were the actual government. What the European citizens are NOT objecting to are the benefits that such a Union has brought upon its member states: To be able to drive from Lisbon to Helsinki without having to show your passport even once, to enjoy medical insurance throughout all of these countries, to not having to worry about exchange rates most of the time and be able to compare prices directly among many states, to have freedom of movement and employment throughout this Union...
All of these things were considered unthinkable less than 30 years ago, yet here we are. The idea of the Brexit supporters that somehow, the UK can leave the EU but still enjoy all of its benefits (while denying some of them itself to some other member states, i.e. Schengen agreement) is moronic at best. Leaving means losing all the trade agreements, freedoms of movement, etc. This, in turn, will lead to significant mid-term losses for the UK economy, leading to higher unemployment figures and higher taxation.
George S - Well said!
Chloe Lin - But this is not a sinking ship, this is a moment in history that will change, as change is inevitable, whether we leave or we stay, or any other country leaves or stays, Europe will still be there, the ship will not. So just turning ones back is not an option!
@Camille Desmoulins And watch the EU fragment into two, the Eurozone crash and even more voters go to populism because their lives are ruined because good people could not be bothered to get together and demand change and reform. Yanis hates the EU and the Eurogroup and troika, but even he thinks that the EU needs to be saved along with the Eurozone. If we just let it crash and burn then Europe will burn too. The only thing stopping us is the amount of people and the way we ask for change. Simply going to Brussels and asking politely won't work, Cameron did that and got nothing of any substance.
Rule Britannia
42:46: Treaty of Nice actually
3(4) excellent thinkers and speakers! thank you.
I find myself resonating with both new left and alt-right. Just sick and tired of the same old mainstream politics
Ricardo Afonso I think we all want a fresh view.
Then, you should overthink your theoretic political propositions. Alt-right and movements like DieM do not fit together in any possible manner. You should first transform your political opinion in a more coherent system. I woulf say this is not possible with the anti-intellectual discourse of the Alt-right, but try it our for yourself. If your not clear about which arguments form the base of which political theory and how different theorems relate to each other, you will not be able to get to any logic standpoint on anything. You will, furthermore, be overwhelmingly influenced by rhetorics and stereotypical thinking and, thus, e.g. like DieM and reactionary anti-scientific fascist like the Alt-right.
Best
Sure, good points. But I'm tired of people with strong ideological views. To me they're just ignorants. The world is far too complex to vigorously defend any ideology, the truth is generally somewhere in the middle. The problem with the middle .. is that they've abused the system, they've proven to be extremely corrupt and easily prey for corporate lobbying. The left has had its chances in the past and produced catastrophic results. The same with the right. Perhaps is best to accept that humanity is inherently flawed and corrupt..
Miguel So you are saying communism is better than nazism?!? I think that both are shit and should be banned.
Herr Otto Flick Communism is a vague idea and nothing more. Perhaps you meant Socialism, in which case you would have to define what kind of Socialist economy you specifically want to ban. Leninism? Syndicalism? Mutualism? Communalism?
And just so we're clear, Communists ARE better than Nazis. Communists killed a lot of people because their countries ended up with mentally ill dictators (Stalin/Pol Pot) or people with zero understanding of ecology (Mao) and have actually established societies that didn't kill vast swathes of the population (Catelonia, the Free Territory, EZLN-Chiapas, Rojava). You absolutely CANNOT have a Nazi society that doesn't kill vast swathes of its own population. The entire Nazi ideology is built around killing people, Communism is not.
Horvat, how are the languages that were present in Yugoslavia the same? You could say Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian are the same, but Albanian is different, Hungarian is different, the Roma community with their own language etc etc
I never understand why the word "populism" is treated as if it were a dirty word? Surely it comes from the word popular, and surely in a true democracy popular policies, whether they are right or wrong, should prevail. Instead, the attitude seems to be that populism means the attitude of the illiterate uneducated and uninformed, and that were they to enjoy the enlightenment of the "elite" they would see the error of their ways and do what the politicians, in their infinite wisdom, want them to do, under the guise of "leadership". In less enlightened times the "populous" would have exercised their "populism" with the assistance of torches, pitchforks and the guillotine. We are fortunate that do have universal suffrage and the ability to vote... all we need now is politicians who understand this. I believe that the Labour party is starting to get it as despite their personal feelings they have voted to support A50, what we need now is more politicians who actually understand where the populous are. Too many are suffering the effects of de-industrialisation and not all of them can retrain as computer programmers. This is going to get worse - we are already seeing machines replacing checkout operators, warehouse operatives, street sweepers, what do we go when the machines are doing all of the work... the main flaw in this from an economic perspective is that machines do not buy anything! Unless we address this looming development we may just return to less enlightened means of equalising wealth.
Which Lenin text is Srecko referring to at 49:00? Could anyone tell me its title?
@Se Y Lol, thx. I've already read in the last 3 years, but still, thank you!
I would want to be part of a Europe if these people were part of the government of EU with their ideals, unfortunately they are not.
Varoufakis. Is the smartes person on the panel. This guy, he is amazingly smart..
Did Gülen Girl go back to Turkey after this? Maybe she's not even living in Turkey?
Libraries & Day Centres in our community is not shut because few Polish people moved to our town-that was government/Osborn austerity policy
The sad problem for the Remain camp is that they cannot see there are huge opportunities with Brexit rather than being "Little Europeans". The EU is only 5% of the World's population and needs to reform and perhaps Brexit will be a catalyst. The UK would be bankrupted by remaining in the EU so it's not even an argument.
Truth has become a very rare commodity in USA & UK. Janis has the best method of attacking this problem
Elif Shafak made very good points re democracy and diversity. Scary prognosis on the US economy under Trump by Yanis. Whatever these two say Brexit is or however such is claimed to be, I see Brexit as a move in the right direction, back to smaller states and reduced decentralization, and away from away gross centralization and antidemocratic elite leagues such as NATO and the EU.
rd264 Agree about the smaller states, But we have to be very clear about our wording. Brexit has created a lot of propaganda (by the main stream media and the politicians), about what the Brits feel about Europe and Europeans. Most Brits love Europe its people and its cultures. But just as most Europeans do, we hate the corrupt few that are destroying the people by austerity!
I love Yanis.He is a clear and cogent communicator. But why do I not quite trust his arguments?
Very interesting conversation.
Elif Shafak you read my mind. I had all this in mind ... great thinker. Yanis, you are great.
despite myself i continued watching after i heard that the moderator was from the guardian...oh well.
Let me bring this back to the US. Our new industries are causing these issues. Take example cost of living in a city like Charlotte. Average 2 bedroom apartment $1500 but the average jobs does not want to pay 3000.00 per month! Like Spanky L said, if you are a part time employee with 3 or 4 hours a day, how can you pay 1500 a month for rent? Don’t get me started with the 2,3 jobs that people hold and still cannot afford their living. We as a society cannot go on like this.
i will be very glad to see Henry Kissinger here in one of DiEM25 session
There is Culture in the North....
That is the thing others miss....
30:08
From India....
this discussion was BEFORE glenfell-tower-fire!
Yanis ... is a intellectual giant .
Elif is sooooo intelligent
I wonder if Danae Stratou realizes, how lucky she is to be married to a man like Gianis Varoufakis...
I like Yanis very much. However his prediction fell too far short on economy.
I don’t think he is wrong. Trumps did increased deficit and tax cut, suppressed China, china sold US bond, there is real estate bubble bursting in China.
What he didn’t predict was the pandemic and countries governments response to it.
I'm slightly more than half way through this. I didn't realize it was from 2017 until Varoufakis started talking about Trump's positions. These were his stated positions in 2017, but we haven't seen too much of that any time recently. This year, before Trump's re-election , it looks like to me, he might be getting ready to fail just like Varoufakis feared when this discussion took place.
we common people are not so common any more and we don't like our leaders to think of us as incidental or disposable.
Very interesting talk thanks for sharing.
Right, I watched this discourse when it came out and was nodding my head most of the way through it! Today. well how wrong they were! Let me start with Elif. A truly wonderful human being, unfortunately as most delusional socialists are she is entrenched in the idea that humans are intrinsically good and she continually refers to the idea of nuance not polarity. HOSRESHIT! Most humans ARE nuanced and when faced with prosperity over unity will stab each other as soon as smile at each other, we can be real arseholes! She referred to Trump as stating falsehoods and falling back on "prove me wrong" as his defense when challenged. If someone calls you a liar is it wrong to say "prove it"? Then there is Yanis. He is VERY eloquent but as with all economists he is logical, methodical and mathematically fettered! His main points were that Brexit was not a given at the time and lets see what happens. It happened! Then he propounds that Margaret Thatcher was evil for introducing austerity measures when Britain was BANCRUPT and accruing debt exponentially! Perhaps if Thatcher had been the Prime Minister of Greece their catastrophe may not have been as severe as it is today. Food for thought! Successive Greek governments were too gutless in nipping the debt crisis in the bud and just kept passing the overflowing debt chalice to the following government. If you spend more than you earn you are facing financial disaster sooner or later, no economics doctorate needed there! And then again the "Trump is evil" narrative is passed from Elif to Yanis. BIG YAWN! Stop distilling the situation down to good against evil! For fucks sake that is simplistic moronic shit! Ah now we come to my favorite. Srecko, sorry I don't know how to write the Slavic "ch" so that will do. By the way the word for Diarrhea in Croatian is srecka, not a lot of difference there! and very appropriate! I am a Croatian who escaped the poverty stricken basket case of a Yugoslav Federation in 1970 so I know what I'm talking about! How can he be a Communist because that is what he appears to be after detailing that the reason for the dissolution of the Yugoslav Federation was the failure of the communist regime to sustain itself economically? Is he retarded? REALLY! His hope for Britain was Jeremy Corbin and DiEM25, quite clearly a communist solution. Didn't happen, thank God!
What all these Delusional Socialist Utopianists fail to realize is that communism or it's more palatable descriptor Socialism is a failed ideology! All system of governments are good until you throw people into the mix! Socialism in it's true form inevitably as a government turns opaque and reverts to authoritarian corrupt power centralization with economic collapse, as has been evident without exception. The workers paradise did not collapse because of social unrest! It collapsed because it failed economically! Stop DELUDING yourselves! I was a socialist/communist once with all the rosy glassed determination that denying reality comes with ! WAS! The theory of socialism is a truly beautiful thing that comes closer to what Jesus taught than any other system of government, ( I truly believe that!) by the way it did not end well for him, spoiler alert!, a wonderful well meaning concept that should work because we all want to love each other and live well, share the wealth and prosper, well that as I said is the SOCIALIST UTOPIAN DELUSION! Unfortunately that is not the reality! Face the facts and overcome the desire to live in the delusion! Hope you all have good day! Love and kisses from a realist.
Min 20.12 " isolationism never contributes to democracy.." watching this in 2021.. seems a lot of the points made here are not wearing off with time but rather becoming more relevant
I love Yanis Veroufakis
I find it funny how each claims multiculturalism is the best thing, and at the same time argue that their particular region is the best example for the problems of the future
Join DiEM25
I thought Elif Shafak was brilliant, and of course, Yanis Varoufakis was great as well.
Great debate by the left for the left organised by the left. Brilliant for the left.
It was a discussion not a debate.
Well, I don't agree with his politics but Yanis Varoufakis is at least well informed, honest in his opinions, rational and in consequence, challenging of others perspectives. Fuck knows where they dug up the other two. Our ''former Yugoslavian'' clearly hadn't a clue about even the establishment of former Yugoslavia.
at 1:04:00 very high thinking. thank you Elif. love ya loads
not convinced, i still am resolved to leave the EU, and this debate, has been to change those from wanting to leave, to decide to remain if its possible, so they're still AT IT
And correct you are. Yiannis is a globalist sellout and con artist. Futhermore , he works for Soros! Dont let the smiles fool you!
do spread lies, you troll
Progressives are so intolerant and unwilling to accept that what they denounce as "populism" are genuine greviences, unfairness after many years government and EU ineptitude .Still each panelist denounced Brexit .It was a manifesto promised opportunity taken to protest which reset the political landscape .In response the Left called them "stupid", abandoned them again in favour of jaw dropping and irrelatable, compelled wokery.
After the self inflicted article 16 "vaccine blunder" by the EU and the UK's application to join CPTPP - Brexit finally vindicated by political unity in the UK and ROI .
If we need to talk about emotion then why does the EU's principles of four freedoms of movement of people, goods, capital, and services not include emotions?
Great analysis!
Cos we all need a lesion in democracy from a Greek, Turkish, and Croatian person, long history of democracy in each of the countries.
Of course you don't; your lesions in democracy are self inflicted and plenty. It's just a joke, I agree with you of course; how can someone born somewhere else possibly know anything?
bloody migrants coming over here with their... insight
+John Reedy Haha, funny. I'll give you that, you've got a sense of humour. :P
BTW, "piss project INDEED". I like this Croatian peasant. He's cute for a peasant.
Ahaha, Ancient Greece, not modern Greece, lol
in all the years whichever party won nothing really changed for the better,its still basically the same for the haves and have nots......
Good panel, of which the best contributions came from Elif and Yanis. Strécko did not contribute on a level I can live with.
Janis is right again on the Housing issue. We need council Houses again!!!
Diversity needs to be defined and qualified properly: Ottoman diversity was a diversity that came from pre-existing identity groups living on those lands that were there before the Ottoman empire ruled and pulled them under the same umbrella. This definition of Diversity, should not be confused with the idea of a diversity that arises out of uprooting people causing them to have to escape and immigrate from their own countries due to lack of safety and work, and then end up generating cultural clashes and contemporary ghettoes. It is important to understand connections between people and people, people and land, etc.
War in Yugoslavia was not between Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks, it was sourced out between different concepts of organizing the state itself. The nationalists of all mentioned nations used crisis to create climate of conflict between Balkan nations to destroy the state of Yugoslavia for their private interest and economic profit by privatizing state property... Once again war in Yougoslavia had to be presented to the world as national conflict, while the only side that came out victorious are neoliberals and their pockets. That's the way things are still all over ex-yugoslav countries.
Some very enlightened thinking
I always enjoy listening to Varoufakis, but his response to the British vote to leave the EU is typical of the left. Pay lip service to respecting the referendum result, move to a Norwegian-style position where you are effectively still in the EU in all but name, then kick everything into the long grass, with the hope of re-entering the EU officially in the future. That's not what people voted for. They were promised an "In/Out" referendum by Cameron, who made it clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. It's only the left that claims that people didn't understand that, because it won't accept the result.
Ding Ting - with all due respect , the British people (of which I am one), had the vote thrust upon us from out of nowhere! There was no rumblings at all with regards to leaving the EU amongst the public. Yes there was discontent, but much more so about 2008 crash, and those responsible than the EU and its issues. Then we had only a matter of months to make a decision!
It is no wonder that the decisions that people were forced to make are now having doubts. A decision of that magnitude should have been given years to decide, not months! And most British People agree.
‘Varoufakis’s position is not as you describe, his position is that Europe is worth fighting for, but not as it is. His position is to change it for the better, and that being the case, you would see a very different stance from the British people.
I'm afraid that you are mistaken. Mr Varoufakis proposes that a moratorium period of 5 years is to be given in order to decide (alongside EU) the type of brexit that the UK wants. Brexit will happen.
Few knew what they were voting for but they know now
We need new Europe & new Yugoslavia
"Public enthusiasm" for EU is not reason enough for Turkey or anyone joining ... giving up a national currency is giving up sovereignty ...
Two questions. What is the psychological condition Mr Horvat refers to at 33:35 fetishes of....?
Second, anyone have a link to what Mr Horvat refers to as largest binge of weapons exports from US to Germany in January 2017....?
Jesus was a Man amongst Men.
Here Elif is a Woman among Men.
Nice chat .
if wages wages all the same people would not move....
Thankfully a woman joined the conversation
there is knowledge logic and there is wisdom they are not the same thing
Well in retrospect Yanis was a little off on his forecast. Probably because Trump never actually invested in infrastructure. But most of the unions are already striking so I think he lost them. We'll see what shit storm starts when the bubble bursts in a year or so.
nothing related to the topic but Lord Voldemort clearly grew a nose and destroying the secret societies again.
Underrated comment this:]
Yanis says "If you want to understand Brexit then go and watch a Ken Loach movie." Those same people those movies often portray, who have been most affected by Tory austerity (nothing to do with the EU) - will still vote for the Tories - this time because they want Brexit! To me it's like Oliver Twist holding up his begging bowl and saying "Please sir, I want some more."
I think it exposes our political parties for what they are, 'self-interest groups' maybe the solution is to only vote for suitable independents, that way future governments would be a coalition and more likely represent most of the electorate and might consider what’s best for the country before that of the self interest group that promoted their candidacy!
Turkey is not in Lebanon.
Economic Nationalism is Good...it's the only thing to bring some Jobs back..
the division of the world became through religions and it is still valid. I am surprised that such high calibre speakers miss the actual point and higher perspective. Only one question has been asked and never answered in this discussion, the question that would have led them to the correct answers.
That Turkish women is annoying
Greeks-the Light of the World.
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