Terence McKenna "I Ching" Interview

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  • Опубліковано 22 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 209

  • @wpahp
    @wpahp  3 роки тому +309

    Sometimes people ask me how I get so much McKenna content, and how I got this video is a great example, just extrapolate it to 10+ years: So, while reading the transcript of this interview I've noticed that the interviewer Paul O'Brien mentioned that this audio interview used to have a video version but it was only available on the Oracle Of Changes CD-Rom that Brian created in the 90's, the problem, he said, was that the CD would only run on Windows 95 or 90's Macs. So I searched for this CD-Rom on eBay and as fate would have it, found a single copy. While it was shipping I looked up how I could save data from a CD that would only run on those systems, called a few companies, each asking for an orbital price to save the data, so I also started to look for old PC's and Macs. Long story short, the item arrived and it wasn't encrypted or anything, the video files were right there in a folder to be downloaded. That's all, another video archived!
    Anyway, let's thank Paul O'Brien for the great interview!

    • @khushbookantharia2766
      @khushbookantharia2766 3 роки тому +25

      Thanks you for sharing this . Thank you for doing what you are doing. Thanks for making spirits in my room song . It's my favorite.i love it. Thanks again. God bless you ❤️🙏🏽

    • @th-pw8pn
      @th-pw8pn 3 роки тому +15

      You're a machine, thank you!

    • @luchorios5663
      @luchorios5663 3 роки тому +12

      I Appreciate your efforts. Thanks Sir!

    • @erikthompson404
      @erikthompson404 3 роки тому +11

      Thank you Paul O’Brien.

    • @ethanjohnson3642
      @ethanjohnson3642 3 роки тому +16

      Your doing God's work brother! Without you we wouldn't have a lot of the content we have now.
      Seriously apperricate the effort you put in.

  • @InfamousMedia
    @InfamousMedia 3 роки тому +238

    The elf king himself delivering the gospel of the cosmic circus

    • @dominikapilis803
      @dominikapilis803 3 роки тому +5

      omg✨✨✨💥💥💥

    • @jackhammer8061
      @jackhammer8061 3 роки тому +5

      Damn, well put dude

    • @AV.CGPODCAST
      @AV.CGPODCAST 3 роки тому +3

      What is your choosen name and I will from now on quote YOU on that one! - ? 🙌🏾💫😌

    • @Blemr84
      @Blemr84 3 роки тому

      @@AV.CGPODCAST TetraGram. first single out on soundcloud after the memorial meltdown @goagil

    • @charlesrivera9877
      @charlesrivera9877 3 роки тому +3

      one of the best comments on all of youtube

  • @theinkbrain
    @theinkbrain 2 роки тому +21

    I can never tire of listening to Terrence. Wish he was still in our realm.

    • @PrettySure-jq5jn
      @PrettySure-jq5jn Рік тому +1

      Me too. ❇️

    • @Idolcruisefix
      @Idolcruisefix 10 місяців тому

      Your comment is comment reply bait??? Terrance's life work is sort of about how the dead are in our realm.

    • @69VAJRA
      @69VAJRA 8 місяців тому

      Worst thing he holds monologue instead of dialog with interviewer who are of course not so well read and so the lissner, there is no outside input as they have no experience
      If you keep him talking he paints the picture with word in details and just spin off, without asking put questions towards interviewer....So thats the western way, just like media nobody comes with questions

  • @mattattack2u
    @mattattack2u 3 роки тому +86

    Anyone else low-key pretending material Terence is still here in 2021 on this quasi-Zoom call?

  • @Savitur1
    @Savitur1 3 роки тому +49

    Great information. Of course Terence was doing Webcam meetings before anyone else😀

  • @OntarioAtOrion
    @OntarioAtOrion 6 місяців тому +2

    I Ching is so accurate, its the actual universe answering your question. Its the best!

  • @jamesrobertson9697
    @jamesrobertson9697 7 місяців тому +2

    Pixelated Terence McKenna isn't real. He can't hurt you.

  • @michaelrichardson989
    @michaelrichardson989 Рік тому +4

    Wow. What a wonderfully eloquent and sincere description of the I Ching.

  • @PsychedelicActualization
    @PsychedelicActualization 3 роки тому +16

    Now I'm really inspired to finally sit down and study the I-Ching 💕🌌

  • @greatlakeblake
    @greatlakeblake 3 роки тому +18

    it's like a quarantine style podcast

  • @tiggerknowsbest6817
    @tiggerknowsbest6817 3 роки тому +27

    The first podcast, of course it was Terence

  • @Optimisticnihilist09
    @Optimisticnihilist09 3 роки тому +9

    This guy seems like the only genuine shaman type I've ever came across, he's immensely knowledgeable too!

    • @Optimisticnihilist09
      @Optimisticnihilist09 3 роки тому

      @@based9930 Yes he had some far out theories which are interesting to think about, and I highly doubt he was involved with the CIA lol

  • @hawkyeahgirl
    @hawkyeahgirl 3 роки тому +19

    I followed synchronicity and found this awesome video today. Recently, I have been diving so deep into learning as much as I can about the I Ching. What a gift to hear Terence speak about it since he is a big inspiration to me. Yesterday I bought 3 more books by William Douglas Horden, who has written many books about the I Ching, including the Toltec I Ching which is my favorite version. Then earlier today I was watching the Antiques Roadshow only because my brother had it on at his house and I spotted a quote from the I Ching for Hexagram 16 which was featured on one of the Woodstock programs which you can Google to read. The quote is so beautiful and strikes the bullseye in my heart. I've been deeply pondering what William Horden writes about in regards to the I Ching as being "A Lifeway of Flower and Song." Thus, it was also a synchronicity to see that an I Ching quote was featured on the Woodstock program which also has flowers on it. I had no clue about this. The way I learned of William Horden and his books was actually through the woman shaman who I have received shamanic healings from. Shamanism saved my life and continues to save my heart and soul during these crazy times. The I Ching is speaking to my soul so deeply. I'm eternally grateful to have discovered its wisdom.

    • @augustusbetucius1572
      @augustusbetucius1572 3 роки тому +1

      "I spotted a quote from the I Ching for Hexagram 16 which was featured on one of the Woodstock programs which you can Google to read" Maybe you could post a link to it? Wondering if I found the correct one. To begin with, I have no idea what a Woodstock program is.

    • @hawkyeahgirl
      @hawkyeahgirl 3 роки тому

      @@augustusbetucius1572 The Woodstock program is the booklet that was handed out with information about Woodstock the huge music and arts festival. The Hexagram 16 quote is pictured on part of the program and if you scroll down to close to the end of this website you will see it. The quote says, "Joy and relief make themselves felt. So, too, music has power to ease tension within the heart and to loosen the grip of obscure emotions. The enthusiasm of the heart express itself involuntarily in a burst of song, in dance, and in rhythmic movement of the body. From immemorial times the inspiring effect of the invisible sound that moves all hearts and draws them together has mystified mankind." wimwords.com/2019/08/09/from-the-stacks-woodstock-back-to-the-garden-the-definitive-50th-anniversary-archive/

    • @aidanclarke4676
      @aidanclarke4676 3 роки тому +1

      i’m a florist and a musician i have become i ching

    • @hawkyeahgirl
      @hawkyeahgirl 3 роки тому +1

      @@aidanclarke4676 awesome! You are being the changes in the world. So beautiful.

  • @th-pw8pn
    @th-pw8pn 3 роки тому +52

    This an interview I have never seen before. How much is there out there that we haven't seen or heard? I have every book and and tape I could find yet you still manage to find these hidden gems for us! :-D

    • @greatlakeblake
      @greatlakeblake 3 роки тому +5

      same question here

    • @CVYR490
      @CVYR490 Рік тому

      Another book Tao De Ching by Lao Zhi

  • @akpost8780
    @akpost8780 3 роки тому +9

    The puzzle or challenge he refers to near the end is the Labyrinth we all must navigate. Some of us make it halfway, others give up right before breaking through, some of us truly get "there" -- we make it to the center, only to realize the whole thing was a return trip home that we made more complicated than it had to be.

    • @antonackermann9620
      @antonackermann9620 2 роки тому +1

      When you learn so much that you reach a moment of realization that you already know all this stuff and that you are in fact learning it all for the first time again.

    • @FirstMatterCreative
      @FirstMatterCreative Рік тому

      Yes

  • @hobonickel840
    @hobonickel840 Рік тому +2

    my personal synchronicity (built on many life confluences especially in last few years) the fact that I found Leibniz seperate of McKenna an McKenna has had great influence on my life going way back ... my path was Jordan Peterson/Jung/Lebnix/Maxwell.
    McKenna, Robert Anton Wilson and Adam Curtis played a big part in shaping my perspective. I was delighted to hear McKenna nail it. I had never heard him discuss before ..thank you for posting this!

  • @AdamVitale-go3td
    @AdamVitale-go3td 3 місяці тому +1

    These dudes were ahead of their time

  • @Dmyra
    @Dmyra 3 роки тому +6

    fell in love and formed a lifelong relationship with this time less classic 15 years ago. love it. never looked back

  • @josef2012
    @josef2012 3 роки тому +7

    In glorious 144p! Thanks for the upload!

  • @homatsuz8074
    @homatsuz8074 3 роки тому +6

    Been practicing I Ching for several months already; a great guide since the beginning n 100% accurate. I recommend it to everyone, even if it doesn’t resonate with you, it’s advices are always helpful.

    • @TrojansFirst
      @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому +1

      I have the book I just don't how to use it

    • @homatsuz8074
      @homatsuz8074 3 роки тому +1

      Which one of the books? Wilhelm’s one? Perhaps the best ones are Chinese (of course) then French n German translations, I know German so I got that transcription but English one is good enough too. Tell me which one do you have n I’ll help you about how to use it.

    • @moonwatch7963
      @moonwatch7963 3 роки тому +2

      @@homatsuz8074 Wilhelm's is best I think. I use the Baynes translation.

    • @TrojansFirst
      @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому +1

      @@homatsuz8074thanks bro! I got Wilhelm and Huang in English. Do I need to buy those yarrow sticks? So I got two books.

    • @TrojansFirst
      @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому +1

      I wonder if one could use two books at once to try to get a more comprehensive reading or whatever.

  • @katmandew2152
    @katmandew2152 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you much. Spot on. A rare example of a very clear exposition on this subject. NOT A "cosmic CIRCUS" exactly. The Tao is A great subject for extensive study to further self realization. The I ching is not "sine quo non" , as regards the practical use of inculcating taoism in daily life, which rocks for me. I wish to assist this truly expansive compact and correct explanation by adding that you will benefit from any taoist study. He is speaking the truth about the mind bending , hard core reality of living with the I ching. So go slow a lot regarding this precious heritage of humankind. Have a great "Cosmic Circus?"........why not eh?.

  • @KevinOroszSpeaks
    @KevinOroszSpeaks 3 роки тому +7

    The I Ching is a quantum computer more accurate than any in Apple or Google’s repertoire

  • @Carolleemakesthings
    @Carolleemakesthings 3 роки тому +4

    Great questions, great answers!

  • @christomorpho
    @christomorpho 2 роки тому +2

    @20:22 Q: "half Shaman or half Scientist? - I think probably the answer is simply half-baked" 😂🤣

  • @thomasreynolds1387
    @thomasreynolds1387 Рік тому

    Love your channel and the outro music is always intriguing. Rest in clockworks and elven paradise Mr. McKenna

  • @161157gor
    @161157gor Рік тому

    Profound Wisdom & Understanding...
    Terence the Diviner Spins his Magical Yarn ☘

  • @rezanoori1365
    @rezanoori1365 3 роки тому +6

    I'm sure that one person who disliked this video was a fan of 4K videos.

    • @marcosanaya9540
      @marcosanaya9540 3 роки тому +3

      They're an alien where down means up and up down... so technically it is an upvote. :]

  • @yotday
    @yotday 3 роки тому +7

    I kept waiting to hear Terence talk about the "I Chong"

    • @marcosanaya9540
      @marcosanaya9540 3 роки тому +1

      xD

    • @evansgate
      @evansgate 3 роки тому

      and I want his take on King Kong playing ping pong in or around Hong Kong

  • @xelaklement3367
    @xelaklement3367 4 місяці тому +1

    McKenna was such a genius, it's a shame he's been taken away so early from this plane of existence.

  • @moonwatch7963
    @moonwatch7963 2 роки тому +3

    The core of the I Ching (Lo Shu) is the same as the magic square for Saturn. The 64 hexagrams match to the magic square of Mercury. Ba Gua (or Pa Kua) is the martial art application of the I Ching. The changes that make up reality are best described as mercurial in nature - difficult to grasp. I believe that all the planetary magic squares are included in the I Ching also. Terence McKenna found that the King Wen sequence related to lunar phases, and the Moon is the 9 x 9 magic square.

  • @PsychiCorey
    @PsychiCorey 3 роки тому +8

    1:46 hear the tropical bird in mckennas hawaiian abode😂 this is great

  • @soundphilosophy
    @soundphilosophy 10 місяців тому

    The patterns of a "mysterious force" that "ebbs and flows in our lives" when "risk taking" is beneficial, is Kairos Moment phenomenology. The I Ching talks about it often, especially commentary in the Taoist I Ching on hexagram 40.

  • @antonackermann9620
    @antonackermann9620 2 роки тому +2

    Your efforts are greatly appreciated, fam. You have my gratitute and my sub.

  • @44westwind
    @44westwind 2 роки тому

    Awesome discussion!

  • @salmanuel4053
    @salmanuel4053 3 роки тому +1

    I owned a copy of McKenna's TimeWave Zero which utilized the King Wen Sequence. It wasn't perfect, but it appeared to reveal the influence of novelty on the expression of reality. That's a point.

  • @briabridges8895
    @briabridges8895 3 роки тому +12

    I truly love this channel. The consistency of Terence posts.. you are highly underrated but very appreciated 🤍

  • @4lung
    @4lung Рік тому

    Thanks so much for uploading this

  • @boscobear123
    @boscobear123 3 роки тому +3

    I love it. You guys pump out TM content I’ve never seen or heard. Pretty awesome

  • @SirPrancelot1
    @SirPrancelot1 2 роки тому

    Fascinating, thank you.

  • @susiefairfield7218
    @susiefairfield7218 3 роки тому +10

    The Tao Jones

  • @jinsugarbrown
    @jinsugarbrown 3 роки тому

    Thanks for thé new material

  • @robertbendik9901
    @robertbendik9901 3 роки тому +5

    Hi Terence !

  • @ewncilo
    @ewncilo Рік тому +1

    after 20:20 the best part of the whole interview.

  • @billytheschmid
    @billytheschmid 3 роки тому +1

    What is needed in physics is the understanding of Poincaré stress and Mach's principle. Given a resonator confinement (i.e. assuming the existence of Poincaré stress), it has been shown recently that quantum mechanics follows from special relativistic beating patterns caused by a mismatch between this resonator and its resonance (i.e. that the de Broglie waves can be understood as beating patterns caused by a Lorentz boost of the Compton oscillations [Zitterbewegung], where the latter are responsible for mass through E=mc^2). This proves that quantum mechanics is a relativistic phenomenon, provided Poincaré stress.

    • @antonackermann9620
      @antonackermann9620 2 роки тому +1

      What you said made no sense to me, but gave me a raging hard brainer. Please would you provide a link to your recommended sourse of knowledge. It would be greatly appreciated.

    • @billytheschmid
      @billytheschmid 2 роки тому +1

      @@antonackermann9620 Have a look at the channel "Quicycle Video", and listen to John G Williamson's latest talk as well as the highly misunderstood talk by Dr. Martin van der Mark with title "Quantum Particle, Light Clock, Or Heavy Beat Box?". Also look up papers by David Hestenes (the father of geometric algebra) on quantum mechanics. Personally, I believe the key is to develop new continuity equations. For example, we usually work with continuity of charge, but not [explicitly] of current. We should have both. What I am suggesting is that you cannot have charge without current or current without charge. As things are formulated today, you can have charge without current. I believe this is wrong, and that they necessitate each other. This rules out point particles. However, the "point-particle approximation" still applies at scales large compared to the "size" of the internal flux. Such an approximation also yields the notion of "intrinsic spin".

  • @TheEs150
    @TheEs150 3 роки тому +1

    so amazing man.

  • @quinnsklepowich3138
    @quinnsklepowich3138 Рік тому +1

    Who in the mid 90s was doing podcasts via webcam ? Wow. If he was alive today boy lemme tell you

  • @bestgirl3380
    @bestgirl3380 4 місяці тому

    When I think of Terrence Mckenna, the 57th hexagram comes to mind.
    Name: the Gentle
    Formed by the trigrams: Wind over wind

  • @Patrick-2-4
    @Patrick-2-4 Рік тому

    Spectacular

  • @justinbauer7723
    @justinbauer7723 Рік тому +1

    I think this is called the first podcast

  • @eightness888
    @eightness888 2 роки тому

    Rest in peace Mr McKenna. You will be missed as a true philosopher of our current age, I wish you could have made it to 2010.

  • @NovakiSalem
    @NovakiSalem 3 роки тому +2

    Decades ahead of his time.

  • @misaghi33
    @misaghi33 3 роки тому +2

    Would be interesting to read his school report x )

  • @cristristam9054
    @cristristam9054 2 місяці тому

    The I-ching teaches inner peace.

  • @ty7911
    @ty7911 3 роки тому +2

    lmao the host got straight to it

    • @augustusbetucius1572
      @augustusbetucius1572 3 роки тому +1

      The host seems stiff and unnatural. Too bad he couldn't have interviewed Terence in person. Then He could have gotten bombed first, and relaxed a bit. Sounds like he's reading off a script

    • @anthzell
      @anthzell 2 роки тому

      Fuck right he did😂

  • @blindstagehand
    @blindstagehand 2 місяці тому

    more like predicting the tides rather the actual wave conditions on any particular day.

  • @hebertjerome
    @hebertjerome 3 роки тому

    Through and through out my life the e chain has been a rudder that has helped me to guide my path

  • @charlesrivera9877
    @charlesrivera9877 3 роки тому

    who the fuck would dislike this?

  • @DMTInfinity
    @DMTInfinity 3 роки тому +3

    *Who's the weird dude who keeps popping up in his RV asking random question..?*

  • @KG8B
    @KG8B 3 роки тому

    Nice!

  • @aspiceoflife
    @aspiceoflife 3 роки тому

    A weird thing happened to me. About a week ago I tried to change the youtube reverse/forward feature (left/right arrow) to 5 seconds from 10 but couldn't figure out how. Today I find it changed to 5 automatically. Could my intention/thoughts have been premeditatedly aligned with the time?

  • @mikeward1337
    @mikeward1337 3 роки тому +6

    Sup, enlightened peeps?

  • @MrJodava
    @MrJodava 3 роки тому

    The shirt of the interviewer looks incredibly psychedelic thanks to the low quality of the recording. Felt like I was tripping while staring at it.

  • @spookytwink420
    @spookytwink420 3 роки тому +3

    Love you all ❤️

  • @landryprichard6778
    @landryprichard6778 3 роки тому +3

    I too am an archivist, Peter. Great job as always. Sooooo unbelievably important, that which you do. Cheers from North Carolina. ❤
    (Also, was this an early Internet video chat?)

  • @sterlingriebling2970
    @sterlingriebling2970 3 роки тому +3

    So weird that I was just watching how rogan and Tommy Chong talk about the I Ching and how Terrence was involved with it.

  • @SatochiCraft
    @SatochiCraft 3 роки тому +1

    A question.
    What does he says? Half shamman half scientist, and then?
    -thanks for uploading this gem!

    • @antonackermann9620
      @antonackermann9620 2 роки тому

      Half baked. It means high or stoned. He enjoys smoking cannabis.

  • @katrinawasserman3599
    @katrinawasserman3599 4 місяці тому

    so fucking cool

  • @TrojansFirst
    @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому +3

    I bought an I-Ching book awhile back but I have no idea how to use it.

    • @mattmattmatt3091
      @mattmattmatt3091 3 роки тому +3

      1. Open book
      2. Read pages in said book
      3. Repeat step 2

    • @moonwatch7963
      @moonwatch7963 3 роки тому +1

      You either use yarrow sticks, or 3 coins.

    • @WilmaJonson
      @WilmaJonson 3 роки тому

      Just dont burn turtles alive!

    • @TrojansFirst
      @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому +1

      @@mattmattmatt3091 it's too confusing for me. lol.. I can't make sense of it.

    • @TrojansFirst
      @TrojansFirst 3 роки тому

      @@moonwatch7963 what about stones?

  • @robertbendik9901
    @robertbendik9901 3 роки тому +1

    Hi Peter :)

  • @janbudin5900
    @janbudin5900 3 роки тому

    We should gather together. Found a community or many communities, so we refund what was taken away by the western society to make us slaves of consumerism, make us week, unprotected by the community in our nuclear families, to completely buy and control our lives at the end of the day. Here is the simplest of all solutions. Decentalization, location where the community knows the people and the land that are involved, an open community based on the laws of Nature, or divine laws and not on some social rules imposed by some random people that "hold the power". We don't need. The centering would come through internet and technology itself that has reached a level of complexity that is almost matching the one of Nature, so that is becoming an independent conscious mirror. And there we are. Free to be what we are, supported by our fellows and technology, by peace love and gratitude to be alive. Bless you all

  • @tau3ahamakhoa
    @tau3ahamakhoa 3 місяці тому

    Half baked!! classic line

  • @161157gor
    @161157gor 3 роки тому

    Coincidence or A Cyclic Expression of the Universe ?

  • @navdeepsingh_2122
    @navdeepsingh_2122 3 роки тому +2

    I love Terrance. I would have married him.

  • @spence2126
    @spence2126 2 роки тому

    What d'ya wanna be in your next life? Ooh a sunbeam plz🌞✌️❤️

  • @DJ-Brownie-UK
    @DJ-Brownie-UK 3 роки тому

    what if eye n eye mentioned , one may have somthing of use/help

  • @vekunde
    @vekunde 4 місяці тому

    profound

  • @DJ-Brownie-UK
    @DJ-Brownie-UK 3 роки тому

    the elf dude dont realise its them interfearing / playing god , THATS theb problem

  • @samaelilith6099
    @samaelilith6099 2 роки тому

    Half baked hahahahahaah🤣🤣🤣

  • @Salmontemaki
    @Salmontemaki 3 роки тому +1

    Here early for once

  • @benderbender1233
    @benderbender1233 3 роки тому

    ✌😎

  • @TheCatfishcheese
    @TheCatfishcheese 3 роки тому +10

    Terence McKenna is the smartest human to ever speak.

    • @RealIllumin
      @RealIllumin 3 роки тому

      So you're aware of every human that's ever lived?

    • @TheCatfishcheese
      @TheCatfishcheese 3 роки тому +2

      yes. I am fully aware, that Terence McKenna is the smartest human to ever speak 😁

    • @covermaiden
      @covermaiden 3 роки тому +1

      I have the same sense sometimes

    • @jkws3724
      @jkws3724 3 роки тому

      @@TheCatfishcheese smart ?

    • @jkws3724
      @jkws3724 3 роки тому

      wise certainly

  • @asemic
    @asemic 3 роки тому +1

    meow

  • @vif3182
    @vif3182 3 роки тому

    this potato quality and set it to 144p to get the truest new age digital vibe

  • @Mataharifilms
    @Mataharifilms 2 роки тому

    Half-baked? He’s high a lot of the time, no?

  • @moonwatch7963
    @moonwatch7963 3 роки тому +3

    The I Ching drove the Jesuits mad. It's basis is the same as the magic square for Saturn.

    • @Gematrinator
      @Gematrinator 3 роки тому

      Remember that chris guy who also “killed himself” ?

    • @Gematrinator
      @Gematrinator 3 роки тому

      He spoke too much about the truth

    • @moonwatch7963
      @moonwatch7963 3 роки тому

      @@Gematrinator No, Chris who?

    • @Gematrinator
      @Gematrinator 3 роки тому

      @@moonwatch7963 chris cantelmo, the guy was made into a laughing stock and bullied online til he took his own life apparently.

    • @moonwatch7963
      @moonwatch7963 3 роки тому

      @@Gematrinator What did he write about?

  • @CatDad42069
    @CatDad42069 8 днів тому

    How do yall think the cia got the brain tumor in Terence?

  • @fkapps
    @fkapps 2 роки тому

    Around five minutes… no

  • @DJ-Brownie-UK
    @DJ-Brownie-UK 3 роки тому +1

    these are all deep fakes

  • @theodorelux
    @theodorelux 3 роки тому +2

    Perhaps an AI-enhanced video or at least the original size would be better than Terence McPixels?

    • @MrJodava
      @MrJodava 3 роки тому

      I'm not sure why, but I actually like it in 144p, feels like a weird painting. Would be nice to have both doe