Chapter 7 Autistic Imposter Syndrome
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- Опубліковано 22 кві 2023
- Chapter 7 recapping my unexpected Autism and ADHD year: this week I focus on two types of Autistic Imposter Syndrome - both before and after getting a diagnosis.
I call these two types of autistic imposter syndrome outward-facing imposter syndrome and inward-facing imposter syndrome. The first type comes when you mask, live inauthentically and try to pass as a neurotypical. The second type comes briefly - but no less powerfully - after you first start to realise you're neurodivergent but then start to doubt yourself that you're somehow faking it or making excuses about why you're so burnt out and exhausted. Neither are healthy places to be - you DO belong.
Please do like this video and subscribe to my channel if these videos are helpful. If I get to 100 subscribers I can start posting links to other useful sites and signposting info directly into the videos themselves.
I'm going to keep posting the link to the AQ Self Test for autism every Sunday in case this is the first video people come across: psychology-tools.com/test/aut...
Email: amineurodivergent@gmail.com
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Doesn't help when we keep getting told "You don't LOOK autistic..." Oh, I'm sorry, let me do an autism.
Lol - exactly...
this brought me to the verge of tears. i’m currently recently self-diagnosed and knowing that others experience the internal facing imposter syndrome of “not being autistic enough” is so so so helpful. i feel us high masking late diagnosed autistics experience it even more as a result of us denying our own suffering for so many years.
Yep. And a lot of us don't talk about the internal facing imposter syndrome, particularly if we're now trying to 'convince' others that we've been autistic all along. If WE are doubting ourselves, how can we expect others who don't even experience our inner exhaustion and fatigue from masking NOT to think we're just being delusional? So what do we do? We mask. And hide our self-doubt. And go through (yet more) turmoil and agonising alone. I want folk like us to be able to talk about this. I'm really glad this is resonating and a lot of people go through the same thing.
I go to a university where our school newspaper has started to regularly acknowledge that a huge percent of the student body experiences forms of imposter syndrome. We usually say it's because we "were in the top of our high school classes but are painfully average here at the university," but having been on campus for almost a decade (breaks, grad school, etc), I am sure at least some of us would benefit from considering if we are on the autism spectrum.
Edit: you are youtube material!!! I'll be sharing this video with some people and I hope you reach many more than 100 subscribers quickly!!
Thanks so much! Yeah, apparently it's hugely common for 'gifted' kids in high school/ secondary school to end up burning out at university. Either undiagnosed autism or ADHD (the co-occurring ADHD bit of my journey is impending too) very likely often play a role - we thrive when there are support structures in place but crash and burn doing it independently after the training wheels come off. There needs to be so much more awareness of this. Such great minds crashing and burning.....
Eloquently put. You've described 'the void' perfectly. That strange place between unconscious denial and conscious acceptance. Spending a lifetime of feeling on the margins of one community yet pretending you're not; then discovering a place where you realise you might well belong, but are reticent to accept it. It's a bit like swinging through the jungle on vines. There's a moment where you're barely holding on to the next vine and barely holding onto the last one. A feeling of being between worlds, and it can be quite unsettling, but awareness can be like that. Like when learning something new. At first we're consciously incompetent, then unconsciously competent before we become consciously competent. That no man's land place - that void needs to be normalised and accepted and this is what your video addresses so well.
On reflection, I wonder if . . . Because we've felt on the margins of the neurotypical community our whole lives, if there might be some residual 'outsider' element that we bring with us that colours our perceptions 🤔 (i.e., how can we now belong where we are when we didn't feel we belonged where we were) I think we must be patient with ourselves while we acclimatise to our new lives en route to acceptance.
That's a really good point! You don't just go from lifelong outsider to comfortable community member the second you walk into a new room. There's probably an inbuilt defensiveness/ protective shield up around us from years of necessity that's going to take a long time to lower. I love the image of being between two vines - there's a moment of danger there where you have to commit to grabbing the next one. If you bottle it and keep hold of the previous one you'll get stuck. Easier said than done, mind, particularly for a group of people for whom change and transition can be nightmarish! Thanks for watching and engaging, I appreciate it!
@@amineurodivergent Definitely! The void is an uncertain place and, when we've just lived in an uncertain yet familiar place it can feel disorientating. I wonder if it's a form of institutionalisation? We get used to our prisons so to speak. But thank you for providing such great content for us subscribers to engage with. It's definitely helping me to gain clarity and affirmation.
I've been dealing with a lot of these issues, and very late in life. I recently realized that I am a high achiever by objective standards (I've had five books published), but have always felt incompetent, and in a lot of ways I AM incompetent. I have very poor "executive function," which has a lot of ramifications, including poverty. For a couple of years, I've had a post-it under my monitor that says "Don't pretend that self-doubt is a virtue." Growing up I was continually yelled at and brutally disparaged. I considered my parents the enemy, and thought they were full of it. I knew I was weird, but didn't dislike myself, and decided to just go ahead as best I could. My social mask is not really all that different from who I am. In fact, compared to most people I'm pretty transparent. I identify as autistic, through self-testing. And while I'm "marginal," because I have reasonably good social skills, I don't have imposter syndrome about autism, because I really don't care who believes me or not. I know I'm autistic and that's enough. The fact that I had to be totally self-validating as a kid has had a lot of advantages, but my self-doubt about "life competence" seems to be an ongoing part of my personality. And since I don't foresee becoming more competent in an objective sense, I think I need to become a little more kind and understanding about my own limitations, and stop comparing myself to other people.
You summed that up perfectly.
Something that has made accepting my diagnosis difficult is the fact that both my parents (in my opinion) are ND, so the kinds of problems I had were normal to them. To this day I watch videos like this and the things people talk about resonate SO strongly with me (the strongest example in my case was punished for 'not listening') and still part of me says that I'm making it all up to make myself feel better for flunking out of college, after getting As all throught school without trying
Very common, I've learned, for ND people to do well at school then get slowly filed down in college and adulthood until our self esteem is shot to bits. And you beat yourself up for being lazy but it's more just the starter motor won't kick in no matter how hard you try. Don't know if this article might chime with you? www.additudemag.com/2e-adhd-autism-parent-child
Also quite common for ND to run in families to the extent parents won't recognise 'odd' behaviour in their kids because, to them, it's not different. So no one realises anything's up, you mask and try to play the part expected of you, society sees no need to change, and the cycle continues. Clearly the script needs to be ripped up and the game changed somehow. Hoping to help figure out how!
This vid has helped me a lot. 2 and a half months ago I came to realize I'm autistic and self-diagnosed. It's been a rollercoaster of self-doubt vs self-acceptance since then. Thanks for the kind words I've been needing to hear, even if you weren't speaking directly to me. :)
On my way to a diagnosis, but I've already embraced it. If I turn out not to be then I guess I'll be in my own category.
A really important topic to cover!! I have a diagnosis of both Autism and ADHD, it’s been over a year since I was diagnosed and I’m STILL struggling with imposter syndrome. I’d hoped having a professional agree with me would validate me somehow but I still feel like a faker.
It’s really difficult, for neurodivergent folk in particular, to combat imposter syndrome because we’ve often had a lifetime of invalidating conditioning and severe blows to our self esteem.
You make really important points about masking, thank you for talking about this 😊
Thanks for following me - really glad to hear that this resonates, I 100% agree it needs to get talked about a lot more, particularly for people early on in the diagnosis journey who are struggling to feel like they belong anywhere. We'll get there!
Beautifully done. Thank you. 60 years of masking takes a lot of undressing
I was diagnosed a month ago, I was rather surprised because it was level 2 which means I need substantial support. But now I am in the imposter syndrome like you are talking about. Having this information is causing me to reframe my life…. Essentially another rabbit hole.
This has to be the best video on imposter syndrome, I'm 19 and started my self-diagnosis journey last year and later found out this year that I could also have dyslexia it's been so hard with a lot of things also happening, it's been hell, I don't even know where I belong any more. I just subscribed to you and I watched every video of yours and I must say I relate so much, it's both relieving and scary because my country doesn't advocate or know about things like this, it's also very hard to get help.
Thanks so much for watching Dunsin, and I'm sorry to hear it's so hard to get support where you are. I was quite nervous about starting these videos and putting myself out there, so messages like yours that show they're maybe useful and helping people out on a similar journey to mine really make it worthwhile for me and help me keep going with them. Thanks!
Thank you for making this video. It really made me feel better to hear the things you said. I'm 29 and was recently diagnosed with ADHD, but I've really been struggling with whether I'm also autistic. I keep feeling like I'm simultaneously not autistic and not *not* autistic.
Thanks for watching. Yeah, there's a ton of overlap, it seems to be REALLY difficult to disambiguate the two sometimes. These Venn diagrams I found really interesting, visual overlap as well as text and links around co-occurring AuDHD: neurodivergentinsights.com/misdiagnosis-monday/adhd-vs-autism
Feeling not NOT autistic is something I can relate to very much.
It's not like I am VERY autistic at all times. I can usually tell facial expressions, I can tell sarcasm most of the time, I usually have some grasp of the social dynamics in a situation, but then again, I REGULARLY feel like I'm OBVIOUSLY missing some social information and rhythm compared to others.
Loud noises and bright lights screw with my head a little too much. I'm never QUITE sure what's going on. I'm a little too obsessed with one perticular topic that I can spend 80% of my time on. I'm a little too bad at organic smalltalk. I did have meltdowns and shutdowns at times.
I stim too, it's just not full body rocking back and forth, which would be obviously autistic, but more like a mostly semi suppressed knee bobbing. (which turns into some strange full body thing when I'm alone and feel comfortable.) I have little understanding of my own facial expression, and I organically started spending considerable time making faces into a mirror in order to train making appropriate facial expressions. I often force myself to have a neutral facial expression because it tends to drift of into something inappropriate at times.
As a child I would walk exclusively on tiptoes, I would play alone 99% of the time (voluntarily) etc.
So clearly, I'm not NOT autistic, but I am also not obviously autistic.
I’m 57 and just realized this is me and many in my family. I believe that there was nothing available for my age group or even my kids. It explains everything. Yes I had abuse and trauma but it didn’t explain everything. I am autistic and so was my dad
Yes, autistic traits very often run in families. I hope things are starting to fall more into place for you now. It's certainly a journey!
Thank you. 66 and suspected autism since 4th grade when I heard the criteria read and fit it all. Tried to hide it most of those years. Became too old to have the masking energy anymore. Can’t get a diagnosis in our system. All the Drs, and councilors who could get a senior into the system say, “You don’t need a diagnosis, though you probably are autistic, because you’ve gotten by so well all your life.” So well. They don’t get it. Thank you for expressing all these things I’ve thought!
Sorry that's been your experience, sadly it's sounding all too common for people seeking adult diagnoses who have 'got by', but at considerable cost.
Thank you for this video, it puts these feelings into words so well. Wishing you well.
Very good video, I'm subscribing and watching all the others. I have been recently and unexpectedly been diagnosed at 45.
I decided recently, at the age of 63, to do the AQ10 and CAT-Q tests and scored extremely highly in them. For years I'd thought that I may be on the spectrum but always doubted myself. Recently I asked for a face to face with my GP to discuss it and my surgery have been stonewalling me. It's a month since I first requested it and I'm still fighting to see him. They did, after some pressure, let me speak to their Mental Health Practitioner who had never heard of the AQ10 and told me I couldn't be Autistic because I was married and had previously held down a job. I still feel a bit like an imposter, but I'm furious with my doctors surgery for making it so much more difficult.
It's incredibly dis-spiriting and disappointing to hear this level of ignorance about autism sitting inside the healthcare system. It's ignorant, blinkered nonsense like this (are they aware it's a spectrum condition?) that drives people to turn towards paying for a private assessment and diagnosis, spending hundreds of pounds of their own money when there's supposed to be a well-informed healthcare system there to help people. I'm sorry you're going through this, that's really hard to hear. Have you heard of www.autismandadhd.org - Annie Clements is lovely and helped me early on in my journey, it might be worth getting in touch with them for some advice on next steps? Good luck and sorry you're having to battle through resistance when what you need is support and recognition.
Okay. I took the questionaire which is the test number 10+ I took this week lol. You were explaining what's going on inside our brains and fr I was about to cry 😭 bc that hit so deep THEN THE DRAMA QUEEN LINE KINDA MADE ME GIGGLE SO HARD. Thank you for the great video
Thanks you drama queen! How many of the 10+ did you pass??
@@amineurodivergent
I passed every single one of them. I really need to sit down and have a talk with myself at this point lol.
@@justno8331 Outstanding! Neurospicy!
Thank you so much, this was really helpful to hear at the moment, as I am going through this right now, diagnosed at 52
Dear sir thanku,that is me ,godbless u sir
Reading about all the people ticking all the boxes and then getting brushed off makes me afraid to even try for an official diagnosis. The impostor syndrome is one thing but the thought of being told I am just making this up by an official person makes me feel so horrible I would rather keep all this to myself for the rest of my life.
Yeah, this is horrible, and you're in no way the only person feeling this way. I was messaging with someone recently, clearly neurodivergent, that this happened to and it's crushing. I think I got lucky, basically, with my assessment, and I can see now it could have easily gone the other way - as it has with many others. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the whole way neurodivergence is approached and supported needs to change. There's sooo many of us, and getting a formal 'yes' or 'no' can seem so arbitrary. This whole thing is wrong and needs to change. A person's lived experience cannot be assessed and 'decided on' in the course of a few hours' assessment.
@@amineurodivergent ❤️
@@amineurodivergent I will never get an official diagnosis. First of all, I'm 65, and there would be no benefit whatsoever. Secondly, my parents were psychologists and most likely undiagnosed asd. They had the most spectacular meltdowns lol. I have similar traits to my dad, including sensory issues re tight clothing, etc.
I've been to dozens of counselors and always misdiagnosed. I don't trust them at all, at least in my country.
I did the online tests and scored very high. I am teaching myself everything I need to know about autism via the internet.
My friends and family are supportive. I'm lucky that way. Good enough for me. 😊
@@angelacarstensen Not 100% relevant but a thing I read a while back that I found very reassuring (in a way) was: "only an autistic person would actively SEEK OUT an autism diagnosis". I found it quite comforting.
@@amineurodivergent Yes, that is reassuring!
Thanks, I really appreciated that. ❤
"You belong in this room, you're not an imposter." - Excellent. I have successfully infiltrated your organization.
Wait, pretend I didn't say that. :-)
@@aspidoscelis too late now, sunshine!
This is really beautiful, thank you ❤
Sometimes all of this is so confusing I have this feeling sometimes like I literally don’t know who I am as a person. Do I like the things I like or am I faking it? But then I’m like who tf would pretend to be unhealthily obsessed with one video game franchise for 3 years because someone showed me a few of the games. That’s my imposter syndrome I don’t even know if or when I mask I think I do it sometimes but not really that often I think it’s more subconscious for me. I’m someone who’s been like you the quiet one who tries being hidden as much as possible. When I was in middle school I was always super weird and people didn’t like me because I didn’t really know boundaries and stuff. I know girls usually masked more but not me. I think another hard part is idk that many afab autistic people, most of my friends who are in the spectrum are amab.
Thanks for watching! Masking can take lots of forms I guess, and I can only speak from my own experience but it sounds to me like if you're obsessing over things you love when no one's there watching, you're not masking it's just a genuine passion and focus interest ('special interest' really bothers me as a term for some reason, I find it quite infantilising). If it's holding an interest out of loyalty for it being someone else's interest, then maybe yes. It's all pretty complex terrain, I think we're all just stumbling through trying to make sense of the disordered us's in a disordered world. You've given me food for thought though - I'm going to try to do a future video specifically on masking - it's clearly very related to imposter syndrome.
I associate this behavior with external factors. Mine is always my work environment. I never wanted to mask but if I didn’t behave a certain way, it incurred dismissal, prejudice, even a perceived hatred and a projection that I was unintelligent. I have always known Im different; all my life. I pushed for everything,m I ever wanted to do and be even if it meant crashing through boundaries; personal and professional. No one in business likes when an employee stands up for themselves. Once I had enough mind games from my manager, and she cut me off mid sentence and beckoned me with her crooked finger to come to her office, I exploded on her behind closed doors. I told her she had put a target on my back. She instilled anxiety in me that started before I left home to come to work. Her expectations of me compared to others was too high. I flatly told her if she didn’t want me there to fire me if my work was not meeting company standards. If she personally disliked me that badly, why did she keep me there? She was appalled to say the least especially with the accusation of making me a personal target. She wanted me gone so badly she spend precious company time printing out my time card for a 2 yr period and informed me I had been late 75 times. My first question was why she waited so long to bring it up. Secondly, I ask how many of those late punches had been more then 5 min. Out of 75, 5 were more then 5 min. On those occasions, I called to report I was going to be late. Nothing satisfied her. I had an honest answer for every accusation and she hated me for it. She was so manipulative; a narcissist. I have always felt when a person has to announce they are being “transparent” followed by their statement that its not true. Why would anyone need to declare it if they are truthful to start with.
This is really disheartening to hear about these sorts of behaviours - one of the key workplace adjustments for neurodivergence is flexible start times exactly for this reason, even if it's just within a slightly more flexible window. Processing and sequencing activities can be a challenge and quite often result in departure and arrival times being slightly (rarely majorly) off. An agreed adjustment like this is such a quick win to reduce workplace conflict, particularly when it sounds like you have a manager who's so petty and vindictive. Is there someone above that person, for example in HR, you could have a reasonable conversation with about adjustments? These kind of stories are so frustrating to hear, sorry you had to go through this.
@@amineurodivergent This job ended with dismissal. At the moment the words left her lips, a huge weight was lifted. I was relieved. I was so isolated there. I couldn’t grow my potential. I couldn’t express myself. When I tried, it was as if I was throwing a pity party in other peoples eyes. They would respond “oh, me too. I feel the same way.” They were just pacifying me and not addressing what I was saying/ my needs. I spent the next 2 months on benefits and spent time reflecting on what I don’t want from my next potential job. The next job lasted 2 months. I resigned that position. I made my decision to leave when we were able to stop wearing face masks. Then everyone could see my true facial inflection or lack of. I was constantly being ask if I was okay and being told I looked sad and unhappy. I went as far as the manager meeting with me to discuss it. I told her “This is my face. I cant change how I look. If my face, how I look is a problem, then maybe we need to get HR involved. This feels like discrimination.” Then she ask me to smile more. I flatly said no. I told her she was asking me to personally accommodate her and if this was a company policy then I wanted to see everyone smiling not just me. I told her when I come to work I don’t even get a ‘good morning’ from my closest coworker, so why would I come in smiling. No one in the office smiled. I pick up on things like that. Peoples affect’s, body language, tone of voice, mannerisms, facial expressions, non verbal cues like huffing, sighing, eye rolls, side eye looks, head tilts. It doesn’t take me long to figure out that people are not happy or they are struggling. I can also feel when they are ridged and cold. I usually don’t try to make an connection with them. They will not, by my experience, keep what you tell them about yourself to their-self. When they get angry, I become the figurative punching bag. Most are pretending to be happy because they don’t want you to leave as they have already been working short staffed. And they try very hard. Almost trying to be upbeat. But their body, inflections don’t match what they are saying. When I resigned, I got up, got ready, drove to work like a normal as possible day, sat at my desk and typed out my resignation, put it in an envelope, placed it on the team leads desk, gathered my belongings. The whole time, that closest coworker never said a word. Before I left, I told her I hoped everything went well with her pregnancy and wished her luck. I didn’t speak to anyone else.
These videos are incredible! So glad I found your channel. Thanks
Thanks for watching and for your kind words!
@7:25 That's it. That's where I'm at right now. And because it's taking so long to get a proper assesment, I just have more time to overanalyze and overthink everything. But I've decided that I'm still going to try to see if "acting as if I was", at least to myself, (if I try to accomodate for myself) makes any difference. So far, I'm only seeing possitives.
Really glad to hear that! If you're seeing only positives, it sounds like you're on a good path. There may (and probably will) be rocks along the way, but if a path feels authentic for you follow it.
I am currently fighting exactly what was described here so much it hurst to really admit this
I took the test, and i am hitting the points that mark it as autism and.....idk what I am gonna do
It's a horrible phase but it will get better. Where are you based in the world? If UK there are people I can recommend contacting to talk things through. Feel free to email me if you don't want to talk publicly (my email address in the description), I'd be happy to send a few links if you'd find that useful.
@@amineurodivergent just emailed you
@@aleksalves6160 I sent some links to the second email you sent - hopefully you got them ok and there's some good links and resources in there to absorb and work through. Good luck!
I don’t see the test
Which, the AQ Test? I posted it in the video description but happy to re-post in comments: psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient
Yeah especially since everyone tells you 'you aren't autistic '