Omega's Own "Royal Oak Problem" | Grand Complications
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- How much Omega Speedmaster is too much Speedmaster? The Moonwatch is far from the only chronograph in Omega's archives, and yet, it gets all the attention. Omega could diversify their lineup and reach new buyers with reimagined chronographs from the Seamaster, Geneve, and De Ville collections. But the big question is: should they? Drop a comment with your thoughts on the situation!
This is Grand Complications, our new series tackling the watch world's stickier subjects. Today's topic: Is Omega too reliant on the Speedmaster?
Balazs Ferenczi (@ferenczibazs)
Co-Host of the Fratello On-Air Podcast
Thomas Hendricks (@je_tomm)
Host of the Chrono24 UA-cam Channel
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Totally with Thomas on this. The moon landing story is flogged to death. Omega needs smaller, slimmer watches. IMO, set aside coaxial movements for larger, thicker models if need be (not a fan anyway of a technically superior movement that doesn't empirically present real world benefits). Bring more cohesion and restraint to the Omega design language. Then maybe more people would be interested in modern Omega vs vintage, which currently is all that's appealing from Omega.
Not a fan of Omega, but the brand has multiple model lines that are desirable, unlike AP and it’s one trick pony. Rolex has only one chrono line and nobody would say that about them
I know its fashionable (and oh so cliched) to hate on Rolex but they simply have the icon for many types of watches: Diver, check. GMT, check, Field watch, check. causal sports watch, Check, anti magnetic watch, check. Spelunkers watch, check. didnt go to the moon but the most desired chronograph in the world, check.
@@davidr2802 Man you are really pushing with your claims.
Luxury watches in general are superficial and pretentious, yet omega makes watches that are a bit more than a "fancy" watch. European space agency recently went to omega to ask for a specific type of watch. And omega sure did make it(x-33 marstimer). You would never see that happen with rolex, patek, ap etc. Omega at the end of the day is more than a just "luxury" brand. As for rolex,
Sure! they have many classic watches. But they are so many spaces they haven't gone to.
They don't make tourbillions, minute repeaters, world timers etc. which omega has done and more.
And the whole "most desirable chrono" is relative. When they released the daytona, no one wanted it. The whole "iconic anti magnetic watch" argument is plain stupid. A dress watch from omega has more anti magnetic resistance than the milgauss from rolex.
@@davidr2802 And yet the Speedmaster is more iconic than all of them, Sub is debatable.
@@davidr2802I agreed with everything until you said the Daytona is the most desired chronograph in the world. LOL. I wouldn’t even put it in the top 10.
@@whereRbearsTeethpeople can barely stand to have a Daytona on their wrist 😂 now it’s the highest desired chronograph 😂 I agree with you, that guy is a muppet
I absolutely love the dressier Seamaster chronograph, I don’t see them bringing it back but I want to get a vintage one
This video hits the nail on the head.
It would be trivially easy to select 50% of Omega's catalogue for termination. It wouldn't even be that hard to do it to 90% of their catalogue.
Think what they could do if they had a controlled burn like that and used the real estate to revive some of the beauties from the past.
Omega is run by fools.
So true. They could easily get rid of 90% of their current references. No way they sell much of everything.
"Controlled Burn." well done.
@@eyeheartsushi2212 I guess you could say the same of Rolex and then they could turn their production up on their desirable models and then people might be able to walk into an AD and actually get a watch they wanted. But then towards whom would they redirect their inchoate hate?
Amazing, everyone is an expert, especially when they don’t run the show. Omega would remove anything which didn’t follow market trends and that is what it’s all about. Demand and supply, supply and demand! Think about that.
Omega have, Speedmaster, Seamaster, Constellation, De Ville and the last two are womenes lines pretty much. Omega really don't have that many watches, they show every watch withg different straps and metal types. They just need to slimlined the website. Rolex has like 140 watch options, no one ever says anything about that.
I have been hopeful that Omega would expand their vintage revival and reissue their version of the "dirty dozen" watch. Made for the allies as a standardized watch for service members the watch was worn across europe and is a piece of history.
I’d love Omega to do a Seamaster Chronograph based on the AT, or a de Ville. Some of the de Ville chronographs from 10, 15, 20 years ago, looked fabulous!
Rolex has the Daytona and that's it. Omega has the Speemaster LINE: Moonwatch, '57, Racing, 38mm... so a bit of diveristy is already here. However, more chronographs from the other lines would be welcome too!!!
But... imagine the Speedy having a crown on the dial 🙄😂😂
The speedmaster racing 40mm is a vibe.
As a fellow small-wristed individual. I agree with Thomas on this one (sorry to my colleague Balazs!). Let's see more options out there beyond the Speedmaster. So many cool historical options.
Valid points, but you’re forgetting about the Speedmaster ‘57 which is a 40.5mm case, multiple dial colors, bi-compax, with date. Stunning watch! You’re spot on that a dressier vintage/heritage model Seamaster Chronograph could be great.
Speedmaster '57 is a beautiful watch. I even prefer their flat bracelet to the 3861 one, which is also undeniably nice
The Seamaster is the Bond watch and the Speedmaster is the Moon watch. Even if the Speedmaster doesnt update/reinvent like the AP Oak, the Seamaster line has already done that a number of times with each new Bond movie. So I think we will see something special with the new one coming up.
I said when they released the new chronoscope that it should be in the De Ville range, just because the dial suits a dressier case. It hadn't occurred to me that they no longer had any chronographs outside their sports lines. Some dressy chronographs which I particularly appreciate are in the case style shown at 6:57. In particular, the red chronoscope 4851.61.31 with the "hour recorder" subdial, and some of the Olympics variants.
Finally, someone in the watch world is talking about this
It has to come a manual chrono version of the CK859. Not a new model line but damn cool
At least it went to the moon. Oh i forgot... Rolex went to a golf court, what an achievement.
Golf court?
Rolex was worn during 3 Apollo lunar missions: Apollo 13 (Jack Swigert), Apollo 14 (Stu Roosa and Ed Mitchell) and Apollo 17 (Ron Evans in his PPK).
Apollo 14 LMP Edgar Mitchell even wore his Rolex watches underneath the spacesuit on the Moon.
However, the very first NASA astronaut watches wore neither Omega nor Rolex, so learn Your wrist watch history in aviation & spaceflight via #MoonwatchUniverse
Rolex has ben to the top of Mount Everest and swam across the English channel.
The Railmaster needs something. A Railmaster with a self Winding Chrono would be a good fit. With bonus of something that could be done in a 38mmm case.
I would disagree with doing a Chrono in a Seamaster. A seamaster that can't dive makes no sense.
Totally, but the problem with price tiering for Omega is treading on the toes of other Swatch Group Brands - Longines below, Blancpain above... But more variety in-tier would be welcome. The one watch star that dominates the range is also a problem for JLC, Blancpain, Panerai, IWC, Breitling as well as the obvious AP. Rolex, Patek, Longines and TAG are in the enviable position of having equal desirability across most of the range.
You are right….. but also there are some very cool older Omegas that they should re introduce….. like the beautiful integrated 166.0213….. a newer updated version of that would be amazing
Just to point out, Speedmaster isnt the only chronograph in Omega's collection. They also do a Seamaster Chronograph as well.
I have a first-gen X-33, and I like the Flightmaster and the Speedsonic. Apart from that, the latest Silver Snoopy is about the only Speedmaster I want.
Omega has so many cool models, i just wish they abandoned the Lemania base and made a new manualwind movement already.
Yea, it’s interesting that the 9000 movements are column wheel but the Speedy movement is still a cam.
It's difficult to get away from Lemania base because the original moonwatch had this movement. But they do have some heritage models with recently manual movement.
Doesn’t the newer Speedmaster 57 have this?
The 57 is a variation of the 9000 movement. It is a manual column wheel chronograph, but it uses a 3/4 plate, so it’s a long way from the style of 60s chronographs. Fair point, though.
I like these exchanges, maybe make them longer? I wonder if the market will trend towards dressier sports watches (i.e. Grand Seiko) and would like to see how Omega responds to this. The Constellation Globemaster is an answer but it would need better finishing and a new bracelet.
is there a link to that overview of all the moonwatches?
Rolex was worn during 3 Apollo lunar missions: Apollo 13 (Jack Swigert), Apollo 14 (Stu Roosa and Ed Mitchell) and Apollo 17 (Ron Evans in his PPK).
Apollo 14 LMP Edgar Mitchell even wore his Rolex watches underneath the spacesuit on the Moon. Apollo 15 Commander David Scott wore a Bulova chronograph on the Moon.
However, the very first NASA astronaut watches wore neither Omega nor Rolex, so learn Your wrist watch history in aviation & spaceflight via #MoonwatchUniverse 🤓
I definitely agree with the point that AP is a one-watch brand now. The octagon is AP. Even the Code 11:59 has an octagonal mid case to reference the Royal Oak.
BUT…I think AP can continue doing it because it is the finest case finished watch period. Nothing can touch the case finishing on an AP. It is a piece of modern art. There are definitely more beautiful movements out there from Patek, A.L.S., Laurent Ferrier, DuFour, etc.
However, IMHO an AP Royal Oak has the most unbelievable finished case and bracelet ever. It is unbeatable.
It is the Sistine Chapel of watch case and bracelet. Perfection right out the gate.
Just speculation, but I would guess many of the people saying AP is a one trick pony have never seen one in person…and definitely never owned/worn one. If you enjoy attention to detail or even industrial design in general, you owe it to yourself to experience a Royal Oak in person. “and if you have the means…I highly recommend it.”
Wait, no, absolutely not! If anything, Omega's got to trim their collection down and define clear upgrade paths! Haven't you seen This Watch, That Watch at all? Come on guys, he's The Rising Star of Horology UA-cam!
Although I agree a 39mm standard production would be welcome.
this video needs a poll so we can vote. I'm with the handsome fellow on the left on this one.
Same
Yes so many versions of Speedmasters so I decide to go with the basic Speedy Pro with 1861 movement 5 yrs ago... but the new white dial is so handsome... I bought the Speedy to commemorate the birth of my son so I won't be selling it and I can't justify to myself having another Speedy Pro with a different dial colour... this hobby is hard 🙄
Well said mr. Chrono….24
As someone who has a speedy and is not up to date at all I think they have plenty of options
I'm pretty sure the issue Omega has is having way too many variations of different lines and models. The last thing they need is another new line of chronographs. If anything, they should be thinning out their collection and getting rid of models that aren't getting any traction.
Well, their Flightmaster is legendary model they should introduce it again so much history about this particular model. And it could be a great collector model with vintage colours that could beat many offerings on the market with reasonable price.
Speedmaster should rise in price or at least it should be complicated to get it, as you can buy it everywhere, anytime.
Baby ploprof. Seriously. How they have not re-released that watch is beyond me.
What is that Omega at 0:22?
Here's a link to the listing page. It's a beauty: www.chrono24.com/omega/vintage-chronograph-cal-33-pulsation-multicolor-dial-stainless-steel-bj-1940--id29522949.htm
Flightmaster with a date complication I'd buy day 1.
Omega can no longer use the term " flightmaster " as this went to SEIKO 🤔
In my country the Railmaster is the most popular Omega.
I understand Thomas's point but disagree that Omega needs more variety. I feel like compared to other leading brands, if you really look at Omega's catalog, they have too many options and models. For Omega to survive as a brand I think they should continue to refine and improve what works, not go off experimenting with completely new models or variations. All the biggest brands have their "flagship" models and the moonwatch and seamaster pro are Omegas.
There is a great DeVille chrono. And Seamaster in the past.
And what about the Speedmaster 57!
I respectfully disagree. Rolex has only 1 chronograph, the Daytona. That is why it is very successful.
In fact I think the opposite, I think omaga needs to clean their line and remove all other chronograph models and just keep the speedmaster moonwatch edition.
Same for seamaster, just stick to the diver 300m professional and remove everything else from that line.
Do what you do best
Fair point, but if Rolex reintroduced one of their pre-Daytona chronographs from the 1940s/50s, people’s heads would explode.
Interesting point. Whilst more choice probably means less desirability in terms of consumer psychology, Omega says they need to offer many variations due to different tastes across different markets. No one really knows what getting rid of so many models will do to their sales. Omega would be scared to suddenly reduce number of variations, but I personally agree with you.
The thing I disagree with is getting rid of all the chronographs other than the moonwatch. Omega develops some of the most technical movements and for alot of enthusiasts, this is Omega’s selling point. Omega invested heavily into the Co-Axial Escapement development for so long it would be pretty stupid to get rid of it.
@@UserKR13 that is a fair point too. But honestly the chronograph watches using this movement are very large and much less desirable. I am not marketing expert but I feel having too many watches reduces the exclusivity of the brand. Look at Porsche for example. They have only 1 halo line (911) and few supporting lines. Very simple exclusive and clean. On the contrary for mini, they were very successful with their basic hatch line until they started introducing too many derivatives from it (the clubman, the country man, the 4 door hatch...etc) and then it started to lose it's charm.
I think omega needs to think differently with their speedmaster and seamaster lines. May be reduce the size of their coaxial movement and put it in moonwatch case then have 2 variations (manual the OG, AND Automatic using coaxial)....that's it. No ceramic, no carbon, no chronscope...nothing just moonwatch og manual and auto...
Just my 2 cents
I think that will not work, chronos outside the speedmaster will lack that heritage that passion that the speedmaster does have, the seamasters or planet oceans chronos are cool but not at desirable as the speedmaster, i think they need to bring back the speedmaster Schumacher edition or for racing more elegant and at 39/40 mm, they are missing a goodd racing chronograph.
Omega makes watches, Rolex sells watches. If consumers were fed up with Speedys then it wouldn’t remain in the catalogue, now would it?
Omega needs more limited production edition models. This will create a cult following like and will enamore people back into the brand. Right now it feels overly prostituted…
And yes…i bought the white dial speedy
Nonsense. Plenty of smaller sizes of Speedmasters for those of you with smaller wrists. No one complains about the Daytona coming in one size. Plenty of variations of all colors, themes, etc to choose from. Too many, if anything. And No, it's not a "Royal Oak" problem. The entire Seamaster line looks nothing like Speedmasters, and enthusiasts and non enthusiasts are aware of them (unlike the APs).
3:45 why is this a problem? Rolex only has the Daytona lol...hello??
The Speedmaster is Omega's Fender Stratocaster, or Porsche's 911. Like it or not, the Speedmaster has become a part of modern culture.
When it comes to chronograph, Rolex is to rely on Daytona
Bring back the speedmaster reduced.
Don’t they do an aqua terra chrono and a planet ocean chrono
Nothing a nice bowl of gouyash can’t fix!
There are way too many speedmasters to choose from
speedmaster 57 is the only speedmaster i like
It seems that Omega can’t stop talking about the moon landing. It’s beyond old at this point. If they talked about mars maybe now ok. Or create a completely new chronograph…
They gotta sponsor the next mission to mars!
Now that the white Speedmaster has applied markers, they should add the same to the sapphire black version and keep the painted dial only in the original hesalite version. And there's no need to have "worn on the moon" on the back of the sapphire ones - the hesalite is the real moonwatch, and thinking that way will let them move forward.
@@shaunpatrick8345 Omega needs to stop going on and on about the Moon Landing it’s 2024…
@@Spook291 they don't need to stop, they can limit it to one model.
@@shaunpatrick8345 Young people do not care about the “moon landing” a very unusual situation in itself.
Soon after moonswatch released to market, I sold my Speedmaster right away. I think I will never buy this brand again.
I don't get the reasoning.
Yeah, what omega needs is more SKUs
Not more SKUs, just different SKUs
Manual wound 👎🏼
If Omega could be compared to a car maker: middle class cars for an average consumer, then it would be bizarre if such car maker was making the same exact model with minimal improvements for the past 50+ years and simply increasing the price and making ads with fake limited editions. It would be aching to offering Volvo 240 station wagon with a Snoopy bumper sticker in 2024 for 80K.
DUDE!!!!! WTF!?! Omega is not a one trick pony like AP. AP may have been a great watch brand before 1973, but AP is is only about the Royal Oak. ALSO as former Royal Oak owner. The Royal Oak is a luxury shitter! Very delicate movement, poor timekeeping $1500 service cost
RO looks amazing though. You might not agree but there are plenty of people in the world who would disagree with you and put money where their mouth is.
Yes the RO is a head of its time. Every other agents design doesn’t cut it for me. It’s a timeless design, highly decorated movement, assembled almost entirely by hand, AP is haute Horology. It’s way above Omega for sure. However… I use to own a RO way before the hype, way before Hodinkee was in business, and before the internet. The RO was a niche watch, it’s GQ, it goes with designer fashion. My mistake was that I rocked that RO as an everyday watch. Many guys today that are new to RO think it’s a sports watch and can take a beating like a sports watch. Trust me it can’t. It looks sporty but it has a high end movement that’s not designed for everyday use. I mean if you wear the RO like a dress watch you will be ok. If you wear a RO like you wear a Submariner, a Speedy, or a Seiko Turtle. It will run poorly, it can only be polished a few times (because of the design), it has poor water resistance. I messed up by riding my motorcycle, going out going out to dance/night clubs, wearing it to work knocking it on mainframes servers and PC’s. Not worth it unless you own other watches. The service cost are expensive as F! More than a basic Patek service.
I must say the moonwatch is boring in the flesh. But it’s awesome. But it’s boring. This is the dilemma of watch collecting.
you are wrong….
understand the argument about the speed-master and remaining restraint……Omega does not have a RO because they have many options which are successful on their catalog besides Speedmaster 😊😊😊😊
The deville line has a beautiful c chronograph plus seamaster has a chrono in the diver
AP has RO and OS which is in direct lineage of the RO…. that is it for successful lines
Meat on the bone
Baby wrist problems 😂
Omega produces more than just the Speedy. AP only produces the Royal Oak and that other model no one likes.
Lmao what a deranged take
Speedmaster is soooo boring. Moonwatch this, moonwatch that
U most be soooo boring hahha
Omega milking the same od moon story....so boring
What are you talking about? They have the 57, the 38mm, the racing, the dark side thing, they had the museum and I'm sure a dress watch chrono will come back eventually. You just choose not to see to make a useless rant. Also most of sales aren't geared towards geeks but they give geeks what they want nevertheless with the Ed White which you don't even seem aware of. Nice try but useless video. Try again.
This watch didn’t go to the moon…no watch ever has to date.
Fanboys of Omega moon or bond watch are insufferable.
On the moon side they would point out this is not truly the first watch to the moon bc it's sapphire and I look at them and say I'm unless you side gig as an Astronaut back in the 60's or you secretly built a device to go to a moon in your mom's basement this watch did not go to the moon. Bringinh up hesalite vs sapphire doesn't make you look like an expert it makes you look like an watch douche bag aka omega fanboy
On the Bond side, they will brag this watch was worn by B9nd and I'm like you do fracking realize he is a fictional character and on top of it a WASP. I bring up WASP not as a disrespect but a reminder to those people bragging about the watch that they are not are not a WASP. I get that they are clamoring to the spy aspect of it but ultimately pathetic to want 0nly bc of its a affiliation to a FICTIONAL and IRRELEVANT character.
So yeah those are the type of customers Omega relies on these days and if you fit these 2 types of people Please I implore you to give me a 👎!!