Cutting weight without losing muscle mass: exercise & dietary protocols, fasting, and the literature
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- This clip is from The Drive podcast 163 - Layne Norton, Ph.D.: Building muscle, losing fat, and the importance of resistance training. Originally released on May 24, 2021, you can watch the full interview here: • #163 - Layne Norton, P... .
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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Summary for people who have little time
- [00:00]📊 Importance of starting body fat percentage on weight loss.
- Influence of starting body fat on loss of lean mass vs. fat mass.
- Overweight or obese individuals lose minimal lean body mass compared to fat.
- [00:57]🏋 The challenge of shedding last bits of body fat.
- Moving from 7% to 5% body fat can lead to significant loss of lean mass.
- Strategy of implementing diet breaks or eating at maintenance to preserve lean mass.
- [02:07]🍽 Approaching very low levels of body fat.
- Analogy of squeezing a wet towel representing fat loss process.
- Need for extended time periods to achieve extremely low body fat levels.
- [03:44]🤔 Debunking body fat percentage myths.
- Transition from 15% to 7% body fat with minimal loss of lean tissue.
- Influence of training, genetics, and the absence of exogenous testosterone.
- [04:39]🎯 Body fat set point theory.
- The body's defense mechanism to maintain a specific range of body fat.
- How calipers might differ from DEXA scans in measuring body fat.
- [06:03] 🔍 Analyzing body fat levels in bodybuilders.
- Discussion on potential body fat percentages of bodybuilders based on DEXA scans.
- Consideration of error levels in DEXA measurements.
- [07:21] 💡 Speculations on body fat and lean mass retention.
- Variability in lean mass retention based on natural body fat set points.
- Limited scientific data available on body fat percentages and lean mass retention.
- [08:44]🧠 Natural body fat set point and retaining lean body mass
- Influence of natural body fat set point on energy sources during dieting,
- The difference between lean body mass and muscle mass,
- Water and glycogen's role in perceived lean body mass loss.
- [10:49]💧 Fasting's effect on muscle and strength
- Observations on periodic fasting for health benefits,
- Importance of resistance training during fasting,
- The role of mTOR reduction in muscle maintenance during fasting.
- [13:24]💪 Differences in training goals and outcomes
- Distinction between strength and hypertrophy goals,
- The impacts of consistency in resistance training,
- How fasting might impact the goal to be maximally muscular and strong.
- [15:19] ⚖ Personal experiences with muscle mass changes over time
- Observations on personal muscle mass and body fat percentage changes over a decade,
- Adjustments in training duration and intensity over the years,
- Considerations on monthly fasting's impact on muscle mass.
- [16:56]🌱 Plant vs. Animal protein in muscle building
- Debate over plant versus animal protein's efficacy in muscle building,
- Importance of trial duration in assessing muscle mass changes,
- The nuance in understanding results of short-term randomized control trials on protein sources.
- [17:38]🌱 Protein Source Debate: Plant vs. Animal
- Bias towards animal-based proteins due to past affiliations,
- Acknowledgment that muscle can be built with plant proteins but may require more planning,
- Belief that animal protein might be a superior source for muscle building.
- [18:33] 💪 Factors Contributing to Hypertrophy
- The primary factor is consistent resistance training and progressive overload,
- Challenge in discerning hypertrophy differences from varying protein sources when other factors are equated.
- [19:30] 📊 Limitations of Short-Term Studies
- Difficulty in controlling variables in research studies,
- Real-world challenges leading to shorter study durations.
- Reference to Kevin Hall's studies and the high precision required in metabolic chambers.
- [20:25]⏳ Teasing Out Muscle Gain Differences
- The challenge in determining small muscle mass differences over short periods like eight weeks,
- Emphasis on the minimal gains achievable under perfect conditions in short durations.
- [20:54]⚖ Podcast Disclaimer
- Content for general informational purposes only,
- No formation of a doctor-patient relationship,
- Users are responsible for their application of the content.
Peter never hear about how to gain weight especially for senior men. I'm in the 80+ range and really fit. Still inline skate and can get HR in the high 170s. But I've dropped over 10# in last year. Body fat in the under 20%. Maybe add a weight gain segment sometime.
I agree that more info for older guys like us about how to improve and maintain general fitness. I don't think Medicare covers a dexa-scan. I'm in my mid 70's.
@@jaykavanaugh8975 I'm pretty fit great cardio just need to add more muscle mass. Starting back in weight room slowly.
@@kentek3141 Hello mate, if you have the time and patience for it, check out the "Muscle Gain Dieting Made Simple" playlist, "How Training Age Alters The Application of Training" and "Size, Strength and Aging" videos by Mike Israetel on the 'Renaissance Periodisation' channel
Listen to his episode with Don Layman. They talked about this in depth.
Have you heard of the “milk shake.”
Brilliant, and informative, thanks.
Man I lost a lot of muscle mass on a 1500 calorie intake everyday because I didn’t consume enough protein. But surely got pretty lean😎 which was what I wanted.
How was your hormones tho ? Did u sleep good @ night no homo no disrespect to nobody but did u have morning wood ? When I go lean and low carb I can't sleep well @ night 😴 when I eat more protein and some complex carbs sleep well cortisol low and lots of morning wood no homo no disrespect
How do you know you lost muscle mass? Did you observe some type of metrics or just based on looks alone?
It’s called skinny fat
@@jasonj7755 🤣
The guy said it only burns fat and not muscle mass if you are already at a high body fat percentage. Only lose fat From 15 to 7 % . It’s a lie !!! Even if you are at 20% you can lose muscle on a calorie deficit
Fasting in some form can probably be helpful for virtually everyone for gaining muscle. It inhibits myostatin and reduces insulin resistance so for people who are not on PEDs and close to the natural limit, like me, this might be a way to go forward beyond what you thought was possible. If you do too much then clearly at some point you won't be optimal because you simply won't get enough food in or have enough time for growth.
HGH significantly increases, naturally, after a 24 hr fast.
No way. Skipping a meal doesn’t not help. You’re either anabolic or catabolic
@@jerrythomas4457 Thanks for your opinion based on no research. You are more anabolic after you break a fast because your hormones go up and you are more insulin sensitive.
@@LTPottenger my opinion is based on my experience. “ fasting” or skipping a meal equals less calories.
Dr. Layne would disagree with you on this. He has videos on the subject matter.
Enjoyed the video, thanks guys
Do we have evidence that there IS a body fat “set point”?
I wonder if your body fat set point would change over time if you spent prolonged periods (years) at a higher or lower body fat percentage than your "default set point"
Right, can fat setpoint be reset by time?
I think this is part of the current explanation for the fact that people who lose weight more slowly are more likely to keep it off than people who lose the same amount of weight much more rapidly. The additional time allows for their fat setpoint to move down more.
THANKS . . Good stuff here.
Peter, it would be very interesting to have a proper study for how much if any LBM is lost and why. I started measuring a couple body parts that already have lower or near zero body fat regardless of overall bodyfat. My specific example is that my biceps would maybe lose 0.5 inch while I lose as much as 25# (going from 205 to 180). I guess anecdotally I feel like possibly I may not be losing any significant amount of LBM at all.
Bold Strong - Layne did make it clear in this podcast that LBM (lean body tissue) should not be mistaken for muscle mass. Two definitively different types of tissue.
So it kind of seems, to me, that your measurement 'test' for your biceps is like comparing apples to oranges. You'd probably need a dexa to get a true reading of your body comp changes with the weight loss.
he's right getting to 7% is not too hard going from 7 to 5 is a different ballgame
This video could have been 60 seconds long
How is there no time stamps
Help I’ve gone from 12stone 5lbs to 10st 5lb in 7 months fasting now with incredible muscle loss ps I’m 73 and don’t body build
Help? Stop fasting and lift some weights. It's not that complicated.
The only thing missing from this is to make a public statement that this broadcast is for men of a certain age, who have very specific ability to work out, and education, frankly. ...forget women, especially women over 50! Maybe I misunderstand who your target audience is intended to be....I have been listening to several podcasts and YT videos. I listen to draw from them basic health principles. Some of the quality of the conversations are very high...I appreciate.
Why do you assume that preserving lean muscle mass has nothing to do with women?
Not finished with this particular clip, but I had listened to the whole of this podcast when it came out. Attia did talk of a female as a case study and asked layne how to help her.
This applies to anyone. I’ve seen wheelchair bound people do resistance training and everyone needs sustenance
It is intended for everybody, not just bodybuilders. For the sake of healthy and longevity, a lot of people need to lose fat while preserving skeletal muscle. If anything, overweight people past middle age need this the most.
@@beardy7124failing to appreciate the nuances and hormonal differences between the sexes
Thank you
Win
The Agoge diet works best for fat loss. I tried the keto diet but it was just so difficult to stick with and very hurting on the body.
ALL diets work. It's just whatever enables you to stick to a calorie deficit the most consistently.
It worked best for you, out of like 2-3 diets.
Any diet will work as long as you maintain a calorific deficit while keeping cheat days to a bare minimum.
Also when cutting you need to lift heavy and keep your protein intake on the higher side (1 gram/pound) to minimise loss of muscle tissue.
Just get liposuction, pull fat out of body without losing muscle mass ?
Too much talking about data. If you eat right,exercise a lot and sleep enough, you'll just fine..lean body mass for sure.
The danger, if you're say 7%,is that you 'll target 5% ,and there could dangerous territory. In the US people love the numbers,okay,but too much is too much
No way these guys were at 7 percent body fat.
I nearly stopped watching when he boldly stated 7% bodyfat and lower. It’s good that he qualified it by stating “according to calipers”, which means that the numbers are highly questionable.
Elephants are some of the largest animals on the planet and vegetarian. Gorillas are mostly vegetarian too, so it’s very possible to build muscle on a vegetarian diet, I’d just still rather eat a steak!
Idiotic take. Elephants and gorillas spend 95% of their day eating due to the poor nutritional values of vegetables. Are you going to spend 95% of your day eating non stop to get what you need? Please think before you comment.
I really try to listen to Layne Norton but he is just insufferable. For someone who is so concerned about “the data”, “I’ll let the internet worry about it” just doesn’t cut it.
Im sick of all this crap. It's all genetics. Some people are just naturally lean with minimal effort.
I think this entire conversation about losing muscle mass is really a myth and waste of time. I can maybe...just maybe see it would be an issue if your below 8% body fat and in competitions, but for 99.999% of the human population, our body's don't get all orgasmic to attack and canabalize muscle. As Jason Fung discusses all the time, and actually discussed it with you during your talk with him in late 2019 (I believe it was), to think that the body is soo stupid as to store body fat for energy, but the second your body needs energy it goes straight to protein and muscle = It's silly. Jason did talk about soo much 'junk' or excess protein materials that do get recycled and cleaned out, but that's older skin and connective tissue and other junk protein that is littering up various systems. He never dismissed the fact that your body will recycle and use proteins/amino acids for other processes, but this myth/paradigm that says if you're in a calorie deficit for 5 hours you're gonna lose pounds and pounds of muscle is just assinine. Heck, during a week fast you might lose a milligram or two of lean muscle mass...but probably not even that much.
Well yes but unused muscle is heavy and
wastes energy, fat is for survival, protecting organs, protecting from injury. The only way to keep the muscle during a fast or calorie deficit is to keep lifting heavy! When your lean, sure you still have lots of stored fat energy but the body will try to hold onto that and start sacrificing muscle to make energy and reduce energy expenditure in the future.
Jason Fung is a quack, no science behind his claims.
Does not listen to Fung…he is an idiot and spreads misinformation. Dr. Layne dispels his BS all the time.
Would depend how much muscle you're carrying. The body wants to conserve energy first and foremost. Muscles are a furnace that burn lots of fuel. If you're not eating, the body will be much more reluctant to send energy to unused tissue, hence the need for daily weightlifting to send a very strong signal thag thses tissues are needed and shouldn't be removed.
Look at any photo of tribal people's. None of them are jacked. They're lean, but no, the amount of muscle we carry today is truly contingent on our modern diet and not something a natural human body would fight to preserve.
If you're not using your muscles, your body isn't stupid, it's going to get rid of it to prevent starvation... So, yes if you're body enters a state where it's not getting food, stands to reason the need for exercise to promote muscle preservation would increase.
Jason Fung is skinnyfat and 30%+ bodyfat and knows less than nothing about bodybuilding. Layne is the real deal and knows what he's talking about
I'd question his 7% claim too. That is insanely, and an unhealthy level, of body fat. Grotesquely lean.
On calipers it’s not bad. Most pro athletes can test at 7pct on calipers
I would Google him...he was incredibly lean in his competition days. Certainly less than or equal to 7%.
Layne was a Natural lean body builder for many years…. Those guys get to 7% and below for each show and then go back up to a healthy bf from what I’ve seen 🤷🏼♂️
pro body builders on MRI get down to 5% and 4% body fat on stage.
This is too vague. If you have to teach people be clear or stay clear from teaching
Instructions unclear, got fat.
Eat fewer calories, but keep volume of resistance training and protein high. It's hard to lose muscle unless you're sub-10% body fat and stop training as much
@@EhurtAfyseems like common sense right? I did this before I watched the video
@@conlawmeateater8792 Yes, building muscle and getting lean is pretty straightforward. Honestly, I think it's a lot gurus and scam artists on podcasts/internet that make fitness seem more complicated than it is so they can sell a product.
A lot of misinformation from various communities keto, fasting, vegan, crossfit, high-intensity training, etc. And too many people want an easy fitness hack, a way to stay ripped even though they don't work out so they are susceptible to bad info
It's been one year David, do you still stand by your comment? And do you understand maybe why these scientists cannot give definite yes or no answers?