0:44 The danger of high LDL cholesterol and saturated fat 6:18 The lack of evidence for supplementing with BCAAs 8:30 Intermittent fasting benefits the average Joe (as long as lots of protein is consumed), but not the body builder
@@MihaPoker Insulin resistance is most often a function of having large amounts of adipose tissue, and/or being inactive. Diet is a tertiary concern, but can contribute for those consuming a very unbalanced diet high in carbohydrates with low physical activity over an extended period of time. There is literally zero evidence that sugar intake causes insulin resistance when in reasonable quantities (100g or less per day). This is all old news, I don't know what you would have expected Layne to have "learned", when the research here has been pretty consistent for like the past 5 decades at least.
Summary for those without time - [00:00]🧬 Change in View on LDL Cholesterol - Layne Norton's view on LDL cholesterol has evolved over the years. - Previously, he believed that it was more about the HDL to LDL ratio and particle size. - Mendelian randomization studies have shown a clear linear relationship between LDL exposure and mortality. - This change in perspective has made him more conscious about saturated fat intake and even led him to take a low dose of a statin. - [06:25] 💊 Reevaluation of Branch Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs) - Layne Norton used to advocate for BCAAs as a supplement. - Evidence now suggests that BCAAs may not be superior to regular protein, like whey protein. - Cost and taste issues also influenced his change in perspective. - [08:45] ⏰ Revising Opinion on Intermittent Fasting - Layne Norton's view on intermittent fasting, specifically the 16-8 method, has evolved. - Previously concerned about catabolic effects, he now acknowledges that, when combined with resistance training and sufficient protein intake, intermittent fasting can be effective for the average person. - However, he emphasizes the importance of maintaining adequate protein intake while fasting and suggests not obsessing over minor details like breaking the fast with a protein shake.
Layne is a great guest in this setting! Keeps him focused and less pompous. I mean that respectfully, you get to hear his wealth of knowledge articulated with guide rails
Don't confuse pompous with searching carefully for words. Some people are way more fluid speakers Great writers are sometimes way easier to read Listening to writers trying to speak can be very tedious
@@ybrueckner5589 no one is confusing anything. If you watch his(Layne’s) solo videos he can come off pompous. He was great in this setting. I am a fan of his accomplishments and his knowledge.
Don't know the guy (Layne) within a minute I was like "this guys is a bit of a pompous, know-it-all". Here you are saying this is on the low end of the scale for him ... 😆
what i like about layne is he is incredibly knowledgeable about sports training and nutrition. but he will undoubtedly say, the best type of training is the one that you will actually do. it is more important to just work and work hard than to go into minutia. dont hurt yourself but work hard and be smart about the loads you are handling
I'd add that there can be discordance between LDL-c and ApoB results, and ApoB is the more accurate marker if discordance exists. LDL-c is calculated normally, where as ApoB is a direct measurement. One can have a direct count of LDLc, but might as well just measure ApoB at that point.
I like this approach of prioritizing what has the more impact and maybe 16:8 is not that relevant. My question is, how do we tap into those 20-30% life increase that roedents have doing Caloric Restriction. Is fasting 30h once a month enough?
I did not hear the effect of fasting on insulin..? If you have insulin resistance (prediabetes) and or postprandial elevated blood sugar. Fasting can really help. I have personally witnessed a 20 lb. weight loss.
I've come to the understanding that cholesterol really becomes an issue if it oxidizes. The whole lipid transport system gets messed up with high intakes of sugar/carb combined with high intakes of refined vegetable oils. Dr. Cate Shanahan discusses this in depth.
Exactly! Where is the evidence of increased cardiovascular disease caused by non-oxidized LDL in people eating a diet that is high in saturated fat but low in PUFAs and carbs? Such evidence does not exist, as far as I know. Shouldn't our opinions be evidence-based?
@@MarmaladeINFP And at the same time, you are asserting something with a lack of evidence to support your position. The evidence is clear that high sat fat diets lead to worse cardiovascular outcomes.
Thank you for admitting that it’s unlikely anyone is getting into autophagy in 16 hours. Yoshinori Ohsumi, one of the most respected researchers on it , has said there’s no reliable time frame to predict it.
Cardio vascular exercise produces autophagy. Thomas DeLauer had a guest doctor and they stated just that. It did not increase autophagy, even doing the cardio after a 72 hour fast.
Fasting gives your organs a break from the stress of processing all the junk we put into our bodies. Even if you are feeding your body exactly what it needs and nothing else, it's important to let your organs recover from the stress in the same way you'd let your muscles recover after stressing them hard with exercise. I believe that is the benefit to fasting. It's certainly not a weight loss strategy, although that is the first thing that people think you are trying to achieve when they hear you are fasting. Whether or not we are getting into autophagy is a question I hope soon to be answered. I know that there are studies showing it in mice, but little research in humans. I believe mice exhibited entering autophagy in 24-48 hours. Therefore, when I fast, I typically try to go for between 60 and 72 hours. Hoping to get into autophagy and stay there for some period of time, without being fasting so long that I go to the opposite side of the spectrum and start to do harm by not consuming anything. I typically do water fasts with custom electrolyte mixes and some trace minerals that should not create a metabolic response. I try to do one such fast per quarter, and I've been doing this for about 2 years. My truthful anecdotal experience would say that the process is difficult for the first day, mildly unpleasant for the second day, and rather simply by the start of the third day. By the end of the third day, I'm more than ready to break the fast. Having done this about 8-10 times now, I cannot say I have ever "noticed" any improvement or detriment post-fast. I am doing a bunch of other stuff in between fasts, so it's really difficult to say what effect this might be having on my health or if I'm seeing any benefit. Therefore, at most, this is purely belief based.
For much older, mostly vegetarian, long-time type-2 diabetics (insulin dependent) advised NOT to use creatine, how problematic would protein supplementation be. There are 2x/week upper and lower body lifting workouts?
At the end of the video they talked about protein for breakfast--would a protein shake be recommended for breakfast or was the protein just a concern for the fasting they were talking about?
I understand most people don't recommend BCAAs anymore but I haven't seen many comments on EAAs. Layne did mention it briefly in this so it sounds like maybe there is still some benefit to them?
Is it ldl particles in general that are bad or their size and the amount of inflammation a person has that’s bad? If there’s little to no inflammation and the particles are large and not oxidized or sticky from not hanging around do they stick to the endothelial wall?
It's been hypothesised that ALL LDL particles are arthrogenic. As the debate continues, the best available science we have to date, and that's nearly a century of study, pretty much says lower LDL and you lower risk of CVD. It's of course not an absolute, and I wish we knew more.
If you don't like their opinions, wait a few years to see them do another 180... I'll give them credit for being honest about it. I reversed most/all of my chronic diseases (pre-diabetes, high blood pressures, etc.) after stopping statins. My LDL was 80 while on statins but quality of life went to hell. Now I'm a LMHR and feeling great everyday.
Congratulations on improving your health. However, statins is a series of drugs, where the mechanism of action is a little different in each...perhaps you just might had prescribed the wrong one. Genes play into this as well, which is one of the reasons this area confuses people! ;-)
Don't be so sure about the lipid hypothesis. It's still a "hypothesis", not a "fact". The medical field is full of junk science. For example, the most fundamental Alzheimer's research into amyloid plaques was only recently discovered to be outright fraudulent... I was prescribed various forms of statins and blood pressure drugs since ~40yo. Was soon followed by Metformin. LDL dropped like a rock, but blood pressure and glucose remained elevated (135/85+, 100+). Meanwhile my health continue to decline over the next 1.5 decades. Developed more aches and pains, sleep apnea. I typically got
So true. I was listening to him talking about the linear relationship with LDL and that study of the hyper responders just came out where the healthy hyper responders accumulated arterial plaque more slowly than the healthy controls. I am watching this way after he said it but he did use the term “denialists” and now very specific research is inconsistent with his belief.
There are more than 2. Which ones are you speaking about? They likely didn't break them down as all LDL can pass through the endothelial artery wall, thus all are atherogenetic.
@@Randsurfer they were talking about small dense as opposed to large bouyant, as thats the problematic one, although saturated fat decreases small dense ldl so fuck knows whats the truth
The reason this long-term data shows that LDL is a risk factor for heart disease is because most people also eat way too many carbohydrates and other inflammatory foods, which cause the Ldl to be a problem. Inflammation in the arteries causes the damage that the LDL tries to repair and glycation because of eating too much sugar makes the LDL too sticky. This is a theory that I’ve read that makes sense to me.
Is possible to ingest (and absorb) enough protein in 2 meals a day to build muscle? I like the idea of working out fasted in the morning, eating a big breakfast, and then fasting during the day until dinner. But skipping lunch doesn’t appear to be frequently recommended.
My understanding of the literature, and what Layne would likely say, is: if you get an adequate amount of total protein you can absolutely build a significant amount of muscle with 2 meals a day. That said if your goals are to absolutely maximize muscle growth and don’t want to miss out on even a few ounces of muscle, then it is probably best to consume 3 or even 4 meals per day. Beyond that even a bodybuilder will see no differences.
Hit the nail on the head with elimination diets. I cannot tell you the number of people I see in clinic that are eating tons of FODMAPS and are completely unaware of what that can do to a sensitive belly. I do test inflammation markers and they are normal. People in general (especially here in southern Appalachia) eat a horrible diet. I have had to adjust the fruits and veggies I eat due to FODMAPS, but that doesn't mean Carnivorne isn't the answer by far. Great podcast. Thanks!
@@stevet5549 The American Heart Association is dangerously wrong about saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat, and they continue doubling down on their erroneous assertions. Seed oil promotion is very much similar to the 1930s when doctors were promoting cigarette smoking. It wasn't until decades later that the truth surfaced, and the same will be true of seed oils. I'm creating a video documentary showing a heart disease patient actually reverse their CVD (as proven with baseline and follow up CAC scores) after the dietary intervention I give them which is to maximize saturated fat, and minimize polyunsaturated fat.
@@stevet5549 I hold deep respect for all health agencies. Following their guidelines in last 40 years diabetes , obesity, and metabolic diseases have fallen flat. So what if heart disease and cancer are still high. They are working day and night along with some qualified industry & pharma representatives who will soon find cure for such lethal diseases as well.
@@faisal-caWho exactly has been following their guidelines? I am not saying they are right or that there aren’t some casualties but it’s hard to assign them blame when people pretty much do what they want, guidelines or not.
To say saturated fat ALWAYS increases LDL is like saying protein ALWAYS increases muscle mass. There has to be a demand for the body to start allocating resources towards the production of either. Finding the underlying driver is the key to resolving elevated oxidized cholesterol.
Nice try....but your comment really only reveals your lack of important knowledge on this topic. Quit getting your info from people who try to defend a particular diet...and instead use strictly science based evidence(done properly and by unbiased research) as your sources! Then you might come back and edit this comment of yours! ;-) But I'll let you know this much, that genes also play a big part in how fast calcification of heart and arteries increases with age! Which is why certain people "get away" with eating unhealthy for a longer time than others. But eventually it always catches up! ;-)
@@danieljrgensen133 i definitely agree with the last paragraph! However, there many other reasons someone’s cholesterol can be high. How about thyroid dysfunction? It’s pretty well established that hypothyroidism, even subclinical levels will elevate cholesterol. I could list a dozen other reasons, but I’m sure you’re not interested. Do you actually advocate there are no other reasons for hypercholesterolemia besides high saturated fat intake and genetics? This has nothing to do with pushing a certain diet.
@@doctortoddanderson ehh no, I was actually trying to say(in a kind way) , that your statement with "protein synthesis" won't happen without exercise as an analogy to - saturated fat not always raising ldl levels, is taking things too far out of context....if you know enough about this topic. And yes, I too could list different diseases/conditions that could negatively impact ldl cholesterol levels as well....but now we are going off-topic. The original topic was about saturated fat not being good for you, if you wanna keep ldl levels as low as possible through out your life....and thus decreasing your chances of facing cardiac health problems early on in life. This does not mean there isn't any other health factors, besides saturated fats, that could negative impact health(pretty obvious imo), but it's important to know saturated fat is a major factor AND one that you actually have control over. Being born with a disease or living in a unhealthy environment, is not as easy to "fix". So being aware of it is important....and spreading lies such as eating butter is not affecting health or even worse, claiming it is healthy....is doing a disservice to public health. Especially if these lies come from people with a "Dr" title in their name! ;-)
Now I’m curious and going to research how these guys get their protein while being mindful of saturated fat intake. Lots of protein shakes? Lean meats?
16/8 intermittent fasting is one of those things that people say TOTALLY different stuff about- in terms of autophagy and cellular “clean up”. Like does it help the cellular recycling process or not? Peter here on briefly mentions it and says he doesn’t think so- but other longevity influencers - including researchers and doctors swear by it. I don’t mean like a 2 day fast- I’m talking about a 6-8 hour feeding window everyday. (And not a weight loss thing, I don’t care about that)
Sorry but I’m sticking with my high fat low carb diet. It makes me feel the best. I’ve tried every diet and this one works for me. So we’ve come full circle on saturated fat from being bad to good to now bad again. Still not convinced anyone of you ‘doctors’ know what you’re talking about.
Notes: - Statins probably have cumulative lifetime benefit (even if oversold short-term). - BCAAs my help DOMs? For muscle growth, BCAAs are clearly not as good as whey. - If you do IF, then supplement protein shakes outside of your feeding window. It won't hurt your IF, and it helps you to get enough protein throughout the day. Focus IF on carbs and fat. Peter's comment does leave open a question about how best to stimulate autophagy. Periodic mult-day fasts?
So high ldl, that is made up of easily oxidized fats is going to be BAD. An easier way to think about this is what causes foam cell formation. Oxidized ldl, so if your ldl doesnt Oxidize you will not get the foam cell formation causing the plaque formation. Then you have apo b numbers in certain individuals that increases the likelihood of the ldl getting stuck in the endothelium.
Great conversation and I am more confused than ever! Been carnivore for 3 years and have never felt better. Read several doctors on LDL and tg/hdl ratio. Oh well, I feel good and I’m sticking with that
You can’t feel endothelial hardening of the arteries due to high LDL. Excess LDL has to be shunted somewhere and unfortunately it is beyond doubt that it is shunted to endothelial tissues including arteries. You won’t feel anything until you have a plaque block your artery and cause at best shortness of breath and at worst a heart attack or stroke. Go get a coronary artery calcium score and if you are lucky you don’t have any calcification of your arteries. Better to know though so that you can make changes just in case
The way I see it, TG/HDL can be seen as a good marker of health, but unfortunately they're not independent markers, otherwise the studies where TG and HDL were directly targeted would've yielded some benefits like decreased mortality, while interventions that directly targeted LDL did. Don't just go by feeling, have your ApoB tested, I hope it's good, but if it isn't, do something about it.
Dr. Layne, Dr. Peter, and Dr. Rhonda are some of the very few people on the internet, in ANY field, that I trust to tell me what they don’t know, and to abandon the initial beliefs they had when the evidence doesn’t justify them.
I’m female, 69 with I’m sure some muscle wasting due to a broken femur 27 months ago and then knee replacement 7 months ago that’s been a disaster. I get a bad headache with any kind of sweetener, stevia etc. does anyone know of a good protein powder with no sweeteners and just not much of anything else in it? Thanks.
wow you are definitively an inspiration! After so much has happened to you, you are after building yourself up wow, hats off! As for the protein thing the, Optimum Nutrition "golden standard" is free from sweeteners. Also, if you just look at the internet for zero sweeteners whey, you will see many other options. As I have learned in this vlog here, protein 4 times a day, instead of a huge portion (more than 25 grams at once) works better for muscle growth/ protein synthesis. As theories go, according to the late Charles Poliquin, around 20 grams of protein is enough to stimulate growth four times a day. (there are many theories and studies out there, but sticking to the simple principle that 20 grams - 25 grams is a good middle to be in). All the best to you and I hope you get just better and better, merry Xmas.
Thanks so much for the info Northwind, there’s actually a lot more going on and fear I’ve become old before my time, but do think I don’t get enough protein and getting more is one thing I could fairly easily do. I’ll check out the one you mentioned. Thanks again.
Norton tracked his macros. Off-season, he’d have 250 g protein, 450 g carbs,90 g fat and 60 g fiber. Before a contest, he would up his protein intake to 275 g and cut his carbs down to 100-200 g. Fat would reduce to 45-60 g, and fiber down to 25-40. He has been doing this for decades now. Please explain how his LDL is so high that he needs a statin when he does a low fat, low saturated fat diet??
he has familial hypercholesterolaemia which is a completely genetic condition which is slightly affected by diet, but most developed nations reccomend it be managed by drugs.
LDL is not compounding. New LDL does not create more LDL. The compounding growth analysis does not apply here. Also - do these Mendelian studies include statin use or just natural LDL levels? I don't think statins are part of anyone's genetic makeup.
We could also call it calcium build up or plaque(other words often used)...but it all really stems from ldl lipids not being broken down and instead gets stuck on the arteri walls in the entire body, including the heart(obviously) and brain.
@@danieljrgensen133 Yes, but its still not compounding like money does. With money, you get more money as a percent of what money you have every year so it compounds. But LDL does not come from other LDL - there is no compounding.
@@KenOtwell you mean as in "the measured ldl value does not increase indefinitely year by year"? I dont know how old you are, but if you see a persons ldl through an entire life, you will see it goes up. All people "collects" ldl particles through their life....but those who keep it low, will increase their chances of living longer and healthier before it becomes a issue. Theretical speaking, if you wanted to live forever...you would want your ldl levels to be zero. Those who argues over ldl particle size matter, hasn't understood the ldl particles are basically "waste lipids" that the body can't utilize. Which is also why they got the nickname "bad cholesterol" which technically is actually wrong. As it's not the cholesterol they are carrying that is the problem...but the lipid protein itself. If this is too advanced to understand..do a search on this topic! ;-)
@@danieljrgensen133 I'm not saying LDL doesn't increase on your artery walls every year, just that it's not "compounding." That's a technical term with a very specific meaning, and this ain't it.
The blockages are in the intimal wall of the arteries. There is clearly also an important part of the equation we know almost nothing about, which factors about the intima make some clog and fracture and others not. So much work to do.
Layne, have Dr. Sten Ekberg on your podcast. Discuss the data indicating that LDL and dietary saturated fat lead to heart disease.You may be surprised.
A recent world wide study showed that not only cardio vascular deaths but all cause deaths declined as ldl went up. This study was from 2002 I believe. This is a correlative study but as you have mentioned here the data is difficult to dismiss.
Was it accounted for age and other conditions? We see curves where the higher the glucose the lower the mortality, same with blood pressure and others. When people are on their death bed they get to a place of malnutrition where glucose is low, ldl and other factors, and they have higher mortality. So don’t get confused with those artifacts in the data, look for randomized control trials, or even better, Mendelian randomization trials as the ones mentioned in the video, there you don’t run the risk of such things.
BUT LDL only penetrates endothelium if there is injury and weak collagen junctions due to insufficient collagen amino acid cofactors and trace minerals absorption that keep proper endothelial health. Also, blood viscosity is a big determinant if there is potential damage inside endothelial walls which will signal ldl to repair damage. If you have healthy blood (optimal blood pressure) that should not be a problem. Many arterial blockages happen on brachial junctures, which would explain why thick blood damages interior endothelial at the junctures and how important having optimal blood pressure and elastic endothelial walls health is. There ARE limitations to Mendelian randomizations, there are not perfect (no adjusted estimate of the relationship between the phenotype of interest and the disease outcome which in turn creates a vulnerability to selection bias).
Like Ötzi? 46 years old and already atheroslerosis... 😉 B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
I really like Layne Norton. But If Layne decreased the massive amount of protein he consumes and increased his healthy veggies, he would not have to take statins, and also eliminate his brain fog.
@@ridhwankazi9503 Vegan bodybuilders exist and biolayne admits you can build the same muscle on a vegan diet. Granted, it’s when you consume a small daily dose of animal products that cause a greater cholesterol impact rather than it being linear.
@@yonkocommander5531 Can you show me human trials or large epidemiology where this presents itself as an issue and cannot be resolved through regular consumption of plant foods?
Chia comes out in the toilet just the way it went in. I really enjoy the texture when it’s perfectly gelatinous in water. Just causes liquid poo with the seeds coming right back out. GI Doc is perplexed.
Dr. Attia didn't like the way his own mind super scrutinized his keto experience. This was evident when he mentioned not eating a banana for 3 years. That's not a keto problem. That's a Dr. Attia problem. He could have easily worked in a banana, once a week, or couple weeks or whatever. To say Keto made him sick b/c he couldn't eat fruit .... says quite a lot about his self, and less about any particular way of eating.
Yes he is uses his weak sweet tooth cravings as an excuse alot of them do.. keto made me sick blah blah blah no you can't disconnect from your sugar addiction.
That definitely needs more data. Genetics, etc. Basic demographics, Hgt, Wt, BMI. I have had patients who eat fast food every day, severely obese on the Cath Lab table with CLEAR coronary arteries. We have so much work to do.
Wow. I consume only fatty red meat, my LDL is consistently in the upper 200s and every time I get a CAC test it comes back zero. Why is there so much concern about serum cholesterol levels to such a level people are willing to go on statins before ever looking to see if the cholesterol is actually doing anything bad? Hell, people that go strict carnivore and consume outrageous amounts of saturated fats actually decrease their CAC scores over time. For example, my total cholesterol has been over 300 for more than a decade. I eat roughly 150g fat, primarily white animal fat, per day and my arteries are completely clear. I've consumed less than 20g carbs, on average, per day for that time. My experience isn't unique either. Fascinated with this study "Higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower risk of stroke (quintile 5 vs quintile 1, HR 0·79 [95% CI 0·64-0·98], ptrend=0·0498). Total fat and saturated and unsaturated fats were not significantly associated with risk of myocardial infarction or cardiovascular disease mortality." www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext
I know peter doesn't like to get into brands, but I definitely wanted to add a whey protein shake into my daily routine- can anyone recommend some good quality brands that I can get at my local store, or if not, some that I can order online? Also, do most of you all have your whey protein shake with almond milk or what do you generally use to mix with it? Thanks.
These guys still have alot to figure out. With the clients/patients they have they should hold mini studies to validate there claims. At this point they are speculating and making opinions. I think they just are as confused.
I'm not so sure Layne is deep enough into the lipids, and he admits that. LDL is much more complicated than just an independent marker. But Layne is an honest guy, it's true.
Statins brought my LDL down from 205 to about 69 over the past 6 months. No side effects whatsoever. I'd say statins are a miracle drug for many people like myself.
@@Scottlp2 right, not everyone on a high saturated fat diet has high cholesterol. I for instance, eat more saturated fat than anyone I know, and my LDL is normal.
@@Joseph1NJ I’m sure I’m not the one exception. Elevations in LDL are multi factorial and not solely driven by saturated fat intake. I’m sure most people would agree with that. And to be clear, I’m not saying there isn’t an association - of course there is a correlation.
@@doctortoddanderson how could you possibly defend the indefensible? It is a fact High intakes of saturated fat raises LDL in the overwhelming majority of the population, period, full stop. Any further debate is an exercise in futility.
If you eat sugar, saturated fat can be deleterious, particularly if consumed together. If you do not get enough exercise, and/or are overweight, saturated fat can be (but is not always) a confounding factor. If you are fit (or on your way) and don’t eat (much) sugar, saturated fat is good for you. If you replace saturated fats with seed oils or sugars, it’s worse. If you replace saturated fats with a Mediterranean diet, you’ll probably be fine, as long as you’re active enough.
@@jimbob4456 - You are welcome to cite some peer-reviewed non-industry-funded studies which refute what I’ve said here. Barring that, you are welcome to explain the mechanisms of saturated fat metabolism which would support whatever position you are espousing. As for chiropractors, I’ve met two in my life who had net positive outcomes in their practices, both referred to people I know from my sister, an internal medicine M.D. Both had outstanding knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, which I suspect did not come from their chiropractic education (only one initially went to a chiropractic “school”). Neither had UA-cam channels, as far as I know.
The heart loves unsaturated fat, but the brain loves saturated fats. Balance, eliminate refined sugars and chips, cookies, crackers, store-bought breads and various treats. Make your own breads and crackers at home and just try to eat 80-90% Whole Foods and home made. Watch your portions. Limit alcohol or greatly limit it. Keep caffeine minimal. Drink green teas and hawthorn for heart health.
5:21-5:24 Petard: ''I don't think we are able to understand''. with ''we'' he means everyone else, except himself ironically. Because Petard does ''understand'', he did the calculations people, he has no idea why and no bigger view of why these mechanisms exist, he couldn't predict why, but the calculations show it. It reminds me somewhat of the spinach story. The measurements showed that there were 35mg of iron per 100 gram. Totally out of range compared to other vegetables. If you don't have any logic, skeptcism, suspicion of authority you may accept this anomaly, but if you are a real critical thinker you want to check and really find out why the fuck would this anomaly exist? If these guys were the leader of a country and they found out that there were fire trucks surrounding every fire, they would recommend lowering fire trucks to stop fires. ''Our very complicated statistical analyses showed this, but the normal human mind isn't able to grasp this, to understand, even the exceptional human mind isn't able to understand this, this what I've found out.''
So, what is worse? Perhaps risking your chances of heart disease by eating a high fat and low carb diet or eating a high fat and low carb diet and going from obese to normal weight, high blood pressure to normal blood pressure, pre-diabetes/diabetes, to no diabetes, from sleep apenia to no sleep apenia.
Intermittent Fasting IS NOT a weight loss strategy. It is a overall health strategy. If your plan is to get skinny by intermittent fasting, you are going to be disappointed. You should still strive to get all your calories in your eating window. The problem is that a lot of people struggle to consume all those calories in that window which leads to people losing weight and muscle while IF, but it's not the IF that is causing it. It's the calories in vs calories out. A lot of people also conflate IF and Keto. They think they are the same thing, or they are being told to do both at the same time. That inevitably leads to them not getting the protein they need. It's also physically difficult to consume enough protein and fiber in your eating window while IF.
Please have Dr. Robert Lustig on your show. Or even better, him and layne at the same time. Lustig digs deep into the LDL and it’s a different viewpoint then layne
@@danielhoward7310 There was no mention of the large particle LDL and the small particle LDL. There is a huge difference. The small density is the dangerous aspect of the LDL. You can’t just put all LDL in one basket!
I can't believe some health "experts" still worry about fats in the diet and increased risk factors. Fats, especially from animals, are not inflammatory, which is the main driver of risk factors for cardio events, disease or cancer etc. Some seed oils can become inflammatory from the processing. The only fats which are essential (we can't make them) are the polyunsaturated Omega 3 and Omega 6 types. Olive oil has no benefit other than from its polyphenols, the Omega 7 and 9 etc are not needed at all. The same applies to saturated or unsaturated fats, we can easily live without them, but they are not harmful whatsoever.
Please take a human physiology course before commenting on complex matters. LDL cholesterol can be slightly modified by diet but by a small degree. The primary driver of a persons average LDL range is genetic
B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
I see so many studies with funding bias. There are at least 20 videos on UA-cam of people saying soy doesn't reduce testosterone and they cite a meta-analysis funded by the soy industry and conducted by a scientist who has been doing soy studies for the industry for 30 years.
Statins do not increase longevity Low triglycerides, high HDL and higher Large LDLs is not a risk factor for heart disease. Looking at LDLs without considering the rest is mind boggling.
60 to 70 g of fiber a day lmao!! What a ridiculous thing to do. He must be bloated and gassy all of the time!! My LDL has consistently been over 350 while my triglycerides have been 30 or below and HDL 120 or above for the past three years in which I have eliminated all vegetables and fiber after trying a mostly vegetarian diet for sometime before. All aspects of my health have improved. Obviously this is an n=1 but I encourage everyone to try this out just to see. I don’t think anyone should be scared of LDL cholesterol if their HDL is high if their triglycerides are low and their fasting insulin is low.
Intermittent Fasting never worked for me for restriction. I would always just end up eating more calories because I was so hungry I would binge. Tracking Calories and Macros has been my best tool. It just helps me so much to see what I'm eating, how much I'm eating, and how many carbs, proteins, and fats I'm getting per day. It annoys people around me that I have to spend 5-10 extra minutes logging meals, but it has been so consistent for me.
@@soonahero what's your point? Muscle mass starts to go down fast as from 60, 65 Let's wait and see. What is like to know is how much fast twitch fibers are there. What's the strength of muscles as that is what matters not just mass What's lipids panel, insulin resistance tests, deficiencies, etc Muscle mass is not all
Donald Layman PhD University of Illinois retired Peter Attia had him on a podcast. According to Layman's research 3 G of leucine is needed to initiate muscle mass growth with a total 40G protein for the first meal. For new people doing weight training most effectively taken after the weight training. For experienced weight training when the meal is taking not critical. The total daily protein should be 1.6 G per kilogram of body weight. Ideally 4 protein meals a day. At least three meals. He said if you're experienced in competitive bodybuilding intermittent fasting is fine. Virtually every nutrition expert research and clinical I have heard/read recommends intermittent fasting/time restricted eating 16:8. These recommendations vary so much with each expert and change over time. Nutrition diet and Longevity opinions are very fluid.
Really? B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
@@TudorIrimescu That's true. However, there's so much evidence now that high LDL from low carb high fat diets drastically improved biomarkers that have been shown to cause metabolic syndrome when these biomarkers are imbalanced. I can't imagine you saying a high A1C, low HDL and high triglycerides is a good thing in the presence of high LDL....that's a heart attack walking and we know this from meta studies. I can safely say the cardiovascular disease is not one biomarker, but a larger picture of all biomarkers...just like with cancer, it's multifaceted and not one thing.
The elephant in the room is that there are two types of LDL. The large buoyant, and the small. Statins only bring down the healthy buoyant is what I Understand from the research. The small density LDL are the culprits
6:04 the endothelium getting saturated fat in it is not because of the saturated fat it's the type of saturated fat, what is carried with etc. etc. it's not just eating the saturated fat, you guys are not talking about these flawed studies in the right way you're completely misleading people, eating a hamburger is totally different than eating a hamburger on a bun with toxic seed oil mayonnaise . This is why I'm not gonna subscribe to your show you're not intellectual enough to look at the details and the new wants and break everything down .
0:44 The danger of high LDL cholesterol and saturated fat
6:18 The lack of evidence for supplementing with BCAAs
8:30 Intermittent fasting benefits the average Joe (as long as lots of protein is consumed), but not the body builder
Thanks man you deserve a cold beer🤙
He didn't say "it doesn't benefit the bodybuilder". He said, "there MAY be a tiny difference in muscle gained between IF and non-IF after 30 years"
And again no talk about insuline resistance, which both of them KNOW ABOUT!
@@MihaPoker Insulin resistance is most often a function of having large amounts of adipose tissue, and/or being inactive. Diet is a tertiary concern, but can contribute for those consuming a very unbalanced diet high in carbohydrates with low physical activity over an extended period of time. There is literally zero evidence that sugar intake causes insulin resistance when in reasonable quantities (100g or less per day). This is all old news, I don't know what you would have expected Layne to have "learned", when the research here has been pretty consistent for like the past 5 decades at least.
Cool now I don't have to listen to the joke that's Layne Norton lol
Summary for those without time
- [00:00]🧬 Change in View on LDL Cholesterol
- Layne Norton's view on LDL cholesterol has evolved over the years.
- Previously, he believed that it was more about the HDL to LDL ratio and particle size.
- Mendelian randomization studies have shown a clear linear relationship between LDL exposure and mortality.
- This change in perspective has made him more conscious about saturated fat intake and even led him to take a low dose of a statin.
- [06:25] 💊 Reevaluation of Branch Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs)
- Layne Norton used to advocate for BCAAs as a supplement.
- Evidence now suggests that BCAAs may not be superior to regular protein, like whey protein.
- Cost and taste issues also influenced his change in perspective.
- [08:45] ⏰ Revising Opinion on Intermittent Fasting
- Layne Norton's view on intermittent fasting, specifically the 16-8 method, has evolved.
- Previously concerned about catabolic effects, he now acknowledges that, when combined with resistance training and sufficient protein intake, intermittent fasting can be effective for the average person.
- However, he emphasizes the importance of maintaining adequate protein intake while fasting and suggests not obsessing over minor details like breaking the fast with a protein shake.
Layne is a great guest in this setting! Keeps him focused and less pompous. I mean that respectfully, you get to hear his wealth of knowledge articulated with guide rails
Don't confuse pompous with searching carefully for words. Some people are way more fluid speakers
Great writers are sometimes way easier to read
Listening to writers trying to speak can be very tedious
@@ybrueckner5589 no one is confusing anything. If you watch his(Layne’s) solo videos he can come off pompous. He was great in this setting. I am a fan of his accomplishments and his knowledge.
@@ybrueckner5589 yea..bad take on layne
How about adding “IMHO”?
Don't know the guy (Layne) within a minute I was like "this guys is a bit of a pompous, know-it-all". Here you are saying this is on the low end of the scale for him ... 😆
what i like about layne is he is incredibly knowledgeable about sports training and nutrition. but he will undoubtedly say, the best type of training is the one that you will actually do. it is more important to just work and work hard than to go into minutia. dont hurt yourself but work hard and be smart about the loads you are handling
awesome info. who can wear the tightest black t-shirt?😂😂
Excellent. Perhaps black T-shirts lead to longevity?
I’m getting a black t shirt,..2 sizes too small. I’ll live forever!
@@davidjones8965 I don’t think Peter would like that. He seems pretty serious. He may put some kind of mitochondrial hex on you.
Great question Peter…ask this to every guest pls
I'd add that there can be discordance between LDL-c and ApoB results, and ApoB is the more accurate marker if discordance exists. LDL-c is calculated normally, where as ApoB is a direct measurement. One can have a direct count of LDLc, but might as well just measure ApoB at that point.
Not the same
I like this approach of prioritizing what has the more impact and maybe 16:8 is not that relevant.
My question is, how do we tap into those 20-30% life increase that roedents have doing Caloric Restriction. Is fasting 30h once a month enough?
Great question.
I did not hear the effect of fasting on insulin..? If you have insulin resistance (prediabetes) and or postprandial elevated blood sugar. Fasting can really help. I have personally witnessed a 20 lb. weight loss.
would be very useful to hear comments on IFG1 and protein consumption in relation to cancer?
The big thing that IF has done for me is basically cure my reflux. I've been off PPIs for 2 years now
I've come to the understanding that cholesterol really becomes an issue if it oxidizes. The whole lipid transport system gets messed up with high intakes of sugar/carb combined with high intakes of refined vegetable oils. Dr. Cate Shanahan discusses this in depth.
Yep saturated fats DO NOT oxidize. It’s polyunsaturated fats and carbs that are the problem
Yes, exactly. The PUFAs are the issue.
Exactly! Where is the evidence of increased cardiovascular disease caused by non-oxidized LDL in people eating a diet that is high in saturated fat but low in PUFAs and carbs? Such evidence does not exist, as far as I know. Shouldn't our opinions be evidence-based?
@@MarmaladeINFP And at the same time, you are asserting something with a lack of evidence to support your position. The evidence is clear that high sat fat diets lead to worse cardiovascular outcomes.
@@darrendigiacomo6889 saturated fats do oxidize but it is much, much harder for them to do that.
I've always thought the sound quality of these is really great. What brand of mics are you using?
Looks like Electrovoice RE20s to me
Thank you for admitting that it’s unlikely anyone is getting into autophagy in 16 hours. Yoshinori Ohsumi, one of the most respected researchers on it , has said there’s no reliable time frame to predict it.
You are in auphagy when you sleep
@@N1120A May I ask your source for that information?
Cardio vascular exercise produces autophagy. Thomas DeLauer had a guest doctor and they stated just that. It did not increase autophagy, even doing the cardio after a 72 hour fast.
Fasting gives your organs a break from the stress of processing all the junk we put into our bodies. Even if you are feeding your body exactly what it needs and nothing else, it's important to let your organs recover from the stress in the same way you'd let your muscles recover after stressing them hard with exercise. I believe that is the benefit to fasting. It's certainly not a weight loss strategy, although that is the first thing that people think you are trying to achieve when they hear you are fasting. Whether or not we are getting into autophagy is a question I hope soon to be answered. I know that there are studies showing it in mice, but little research in humans. I believe mice exhibited entering autophagy in 24-48 hours. Therefore, when I fast, I typically try to go for between 60 and 72 hours. Hoping to get into autophagy and stay there for some period of time, without being fasting so long that I go to the opposite side of the spectrum and start to do harm by not consuming anything. I typically do water fasts with custom electrolyte mixes and some trace minerals that should not create a metabolic response. I try to do one such fast per quarter, and I've been doing this for about 2 years. My truthful anecdotal experience would say that the process is difficult for the first day, mildly unpleasant for the second day, and rather simply by the start of the third day. By the end of the third day, I'm more than ready to break the fast. Having done this about 8-10 times now, I cannot say I have ever "noticed" any improvement or detriment post-fast. I am doing a bunch of other stuff in between fasts, so it's really difficult to say what effect this might be having on my health or if I'm seeing any benefit. Therefore, at most, this is purely belief based.
Great chat. Just two guys sat barefooted discussing high level nutrition. Genuinely though, two great channels coming together
For much older, mostly vegetarian, long-time type-2 diabetics (insulin dependent) advised NOT to use creatine, how problematic would protein supplementation be. There are 2x/week upper and lower body lifting workouts?
Layne is just the best. Great video!
At the end of the video they talked about protein for breakfast--would a protein shake be recommended for breakfast or was the protein just a concern for the fasting they were talking about?
Great video from two great minds
I understand most people don't recommend BCAAs anymore but I haven't seen many comments on EAAs. Layne did mention it briefly in this so it sounds like maybe there is still some benefit to them?
Is it ldl particles in general that are bad or their size and the amount of inflammation a person has that’s bad? If there’s little to no inflammation and the particles are large and not oxidized or sticky from not hanging around do they stick to the endothelial wall?
It's been hypothesised that ALL LDL particles are arthrogenic. As the debate continues, the best available science we have to date, and that's nearly a century of study, pretty much says lower LDL and you lower risk of CVD. It's of course not an absolute, and I wish we knew more.
@@Joseph1NJ ua-cam.com/video/-xCr3mvFCHM/v-deo.html
@Joseph1NJ so why it that among the elderly studied those with the highest LDL have the lowest mortality?
I have n t understood why supplementing with BCAAs isn t worthed. Is it that they only make expensive pee?
If you don't like their opinions, wait a few years to see them do another 180... I'll give them credit for being honest about it. I reversed most/all of my chronic diseases (pre-diabetes, high blood pressures, etc.) after stopping statins. My LDL was 80 while on statins but quality of life went to hell. Now I'm a LMHR and feeling great everyday.
Congratulations on improving your health. However, statins is a series of drugs, where the mechanism of action is a little different in each...perhaps you just might had prescribed the wrong one. Genes play into this as well, which is one of the reasons this area confuses people! ;-)
That’s how science works. You use data until enough and better data come out.
Don't be so sure about the lipid hypothesis. It's still a "hypothesis", not a "fact". The medical field is full of junk science. For example, the most fundamental Alzheimer's research into amyloid plaques was only recently discovered to be outright fraudulent...
I was prescribed various forms of statins and blood pressure drugs since ~40yo. Was soon followed by Metformin. LDL dropped like a rock, but blood pressure and glucose remained elevated (135/85+, 100+). Meanwhile my health continue to decline over the next 1.5 decades. Developed more aches and pains, sleep apnea. I typically got
So true. I was listening to him talking about the linear relationship with LDL and that study of the hyper responders just came out where the healthy hyper responders accumulated arterial plaque more slowly than the healthy controls. I am watching this way after he said it but he did use the term “denialists” and now very specific research is inconsistent with his belief.
@@mcb223so you use the wrong data until more wrong data comes out.......got it!!
There are two types of LDL. Which one is Layne speaking about? Y’all need to be more specific.
There are more than 2. Which ones are you speaking about? They likely didn't break them down as all LDL can pass through the endothelial artery wall, thus all are atherogenetic.
@@Randsurfer they were talking about small dense as opposed to large bouyant, as thats the problematic one, although saturated fat decreases small dense ldl so fuck knows whats the truth
The reason this long-term data shows that LDL is a risk factor for heart disease is because most people also eat way too many carbohydrates and other inflammatory foods, which cause the Ldl to be a problem. Inflammation in the arteries causes the damage that the LDL tries to repair and glycation because of eating too much sugar makes the LDL too sticky. This is a theory that I’ve read that makes sense to me.
Yeah but there’s no evidence for it. High LDL even in a low carbohydrate environment still causes heart disease
People reversed heart disease eating high carb and high sugar diets. Search the rice diet study.
Is possible to ingest (and absorb) enough protein in 2 meals a day to build muscle?
I like the idea of working out fasted in the morning, eating a big breakfast, and then fasting during the day until dinner.
But skipping lunch doesn’t appear to be frequently recommended.
My understanding of the literature, and what Layne would likely say, is: if you get an adequate amount of total protein you can absolutely build a significant amount of muscle with 2 meals a day. That said if your goals are to absolutely maximize muscle growth and don’t want to miss out on even a few ounces of muscle, then it is probably best to consume 3 or even 4 meals per day. Beyond that even a bodybuilder will see no differences.
no
Hit the nail on the head with elimination diets. I cannot tell you the number of people I see in clinic that are eating tons of FODMAPS and are completely unaware of what that can do to a sensitive belly. I do test inflammation markers and they are normal. People in general (especially here in southern Appalachia) eat a horrible diet. I have had to adjust the fruits and veggies I eat due to FODMAPS, but that doesn't mean Carnivorne isn't the answer by far. Great podcast. Thanks!
I think it's only an issue if you're not used to FODMAPS then suddenly introduce too much. You're gut microbiome will eventually adjust to FODMAPS.
So happy science has figured out saturated fat to be the culprit. Now I can focus on my breakfast recommended by American heart association.
Ha!Sarcasm. Right?
@@letsdanceonhere Correct.
@@stevet5549 The American Heart Association is dangerously wrong about saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat, and they continue doubling down on their erroneous assertions. Seed oil promotion is very much similar to the 1930s when doctors were promoting cigarette smoking. It wasn't until decades later that the truth surfaced, and the same will be true of seed oils. I'm creating a video documentary showing a heart disease patient actually reverse their CVD (as proven with baseline and follow up CAC scores) after the dietary intervention I give them which is to maximize saturated fat, and minimize polyunsaturated fat.
@@stevet5549 I hold deep respect for all health agencies. Following their guidelines in last 40 years diabetes , obesity, and metabolic diseases have fallen flat. So what if heart disease and cancer are still high. They are working day and night along with some qualified industry & pharma representatives who will soon find cure for such lethal diseases as well.
@@faisal-caWho exactly has been following their guidelines? I am not saying they are right or that there aren’t some casualties but it’s hard to assign them blame when people pretty much do what they want, guidelines or not.
To say saturated fat ALWAYS increases LDL is like saying protein ALWAYS increases muscle mass.
There has to be a demand for the body to start allocating resources towards the production of either. Finding the underlying driver is the key to resolving elevated oxidized cholesterol.
Nice try....but your comment really only reveals your lack of important knowledge on this topic. Quit getting your info from people who try to defend a particular diet...and instead use strictly science based evidence(done properly and by unbiased research) as your sources! Then you might come back and edit this comment of yours! ;-)
But I'll let you know this much, that genes also play a big part in how fast calcification of heart and arteries increases with age! Which is why certain people "get away" with eating unhealthy for a longer time than others. But eventually it always catches up! ;-)
@@danieljrgensen133 i definitely agree with the last paragraph! However, there many other reasons someone’s cholesterol can be high.
How about thyroid dysfunction? It’s pretty well established that hypothyroidism, even subclinical levels will elevate cholesterol. I could list a dozen other reasons, but I’m sure you’re not interested.
Do you actually advocate there are no other reasons for hypercholesterolemia besides high saturated fat intake and genetics? This has nothing to do with pushing a certain diet.
@@danieljrgensen133 Give him some slack. It’s not his fault. He’s a chiropractor. Bone cracker. 🙄
@@doctortoddanderson ehh no, I was actually trying to say(in a kind way) , that your statement with "protein synthesis" won't happen without exercise as an analogy to - saturated fat not always raising ldl levels, is taking things too far out of context....if you know enough about this topic.
And yes, I too could list different diseases/conditions that could negatively impact ldl cholesterol levels as well....but now we are going off-topic. The original topic was about saturated fat not being good for you, if you wanna keep ldl levels as low as possible through out your life....and thus decreasing your chances of facing cardiac health problems early on in life.
This does not mean there isn't any other health factors, besides saturated fats, that could negative impact health(pretty obvious imo), but it's important to know saturated fat is a major factor AND one that you actually have control over. Being born with a disease or living in a unhealthy environment, is not as easy to "fix". So being aware of it is important....and spreading lies such as eating butter is not affecting health or even worse, claiming it is healthy....is doing a disservice to public health. Especially if these lies come from people with a "Dr" title in their name! ;-)
@@danieljrgensen133
What's the mechanism for saturated fat to increase LDL-C?
I think there needs to be more research on LDL
Now I’m curious and going to research how these guys get their protein while being mindful of saturated fat intake. Lots of protein shakes? Lean meats?
Lean meat, fat free dairy, eggs (not high in sat), egg whites, legumes, etc
Fish, chicken, dairy, vegan products.
16/8 intermittent fasting is one of those things that people say TOTALLY different stuff about- in terms of autophagy and cellular “clean up”. Like does it help the cellular recycling process or not? Peter here on briefly mentions it and says he doesn’t think so- but other longevity influencers - including researchers and doctors swear by it. I don’t mean like a 2 day fast- I’m talking about a 6-8 hour feeding window everyday. (And not a weight loss thing, I don’t care about that)
Sorry but I’m sticking with my high fat low carb diet. It makes me feel the best. I’ve tried every diet and this one works for me. So we’ve come full circle on saturated fat from being bad to good to now bad again. Still not convinced anyone of you ‘doctors’ know what you’re talking about.
It's exhausting isn't it.
I feel sorry for you 😢
How long have you been on it?
Notes:
- Statins probably have cumulative lifetime benefit (even if oversold short-term).
- BCAAs my help DOMs? For muscle growth, BCAAs are clearly not as good as whey.
- If you do IF, then supplement protein shakes outside of your feeding window. It won't hurt your IF, and it helps you to get enough protein throughout the day. Focus IF on carbs and fat.
Peter's comment does leave open a question about how best to stimulate autophagy. Periodic mult-day fasts?
Only farmers should use phrase “feeding window”.
High dose niacin lowered my triglycerides and raised my “good” cholesterol.
it'd lower your Lp(a) by prolly 30% as well ;-)
So high ldl, that is made up of easily oxidized fats is going to be BAD. An easier way to think about this is what causes foam cell formation. Oxidized ldl, so if your ldl doesnt Oxidize you will not get the foam cell formation causing the plaque formation. Then you have apo b numbers in certain individuals that increases the likelihood of the ldl getting stuck in the endothelium.
What song is the signature tune?
Keep you alive - Brothers Voodoo
Great conversation and I am more confused than ever! Been carnivore for 3 years and have never felt better. Read several doctors on LDL and tg/hdl ratio. Oh well, I feel good and I’m sticking with that
I hope you don't get scurvy, bro
@@LifeisLearning346 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You can’t feel endothelial hardening of the arteries due to high LDL. Excess LDL has to be shunted somewhere and unfortunately it is beyond doubt that it is shunted to endothelial tissues including arteries. You won’t feel anything until you have a plaque block your artery and cause at best shortness of breath and at worst a heart attack or stroke. Go get a coronary artery calcium score and if you are lucky you don’t have any calcification of your arteries. Better to know though so that you can make changes just in case
The way I see it, TG/HDL can be seen as a good marker of health, but unfortunately they're not independent markers, otherwise the studies where TG and HDL were directly targeted would've yielded some benefits like decreased mortality, while interventions that directly targeted LDL did. Don't just go by feeling, have your ApoB tested, I hope it's good, but if it isn't, do something about it.
@@LifeisLearning346 haha...you're clueless
Dr. Layne, Dr. Peter, and Dr. Rhonda are some of the very few people on the internet, in ANY field, that I trust to tell me what they don’t know, and to abandon the initial beliefs they had when the evidence doesn’t justify them.
I’m female, 69 with I’m sure some muscle wasting due to a broken femur 27 months ago and then knee replacement 7 months ago that’s been a disaster. I get a bad headache with any kind of sweetener, stevia etc. does anyone know of a good protein powder with no sweeteners and just not much of anything else in it? Thanks.
wow you are definitively an inspiration! After so much has happened to you, you are after building yourself up wow, hats off!
As for the protein thing the, Optimum Nutrition "golden standard" is free from sweeteners. Also, if you just look at the internet for zero sweeteners whey, you will see many other options.
As I have learned in this vlog here, protein 4 times a day, instead of a huge portion (more than 25 grams at once) works better for muscle growth/ protein synthesis. As theories go, according to the late Charles Poliquin, around 20 grams of protein is enough to stimulate growth four times a day. (there are many theories and studies out there, but sticking to the simple principle that 20 grams - 25 grams is a good middle to be in). All the best to you and I hope you get just better and better, merry Xmas.
Thanks so much for the info Northwind, there’s actually a lot more going on and fear I’ve become old before my time, but do think I don’t get enough protein and getting more is one thing I could fairly easily do. I’ll check out the one you mentioned. Thanks again.
Hi again NortWind, I checked out what you mentioned and it does have an artificial sweetener in it - I’ll keep looking, gotta be something out there….
Promix brand
@@stevet5549 yes I need to concentrate more on that but thought I’d get some powder for filler occasionally as I’m not much for meat. Thanks.
great discussion
If you take a statin to lower LDL, does the statin work to remove and reprocess old LDL or does it work to just make less LDL or cholesterol?
I'm no expert. I think statins do both.
Red flag as soon as Layne said he eats 60-70g of fiber per day. I want to see his diet plan. I highly doubt this is accurate.
he just includes the packaging of his foods as part of his diet. very clever
Norton tracked his macros. Off-season, he’d have 250 g protein, 450 g carbs,90 g fat and 60 g fiber. Before a contest, he would up his protein intake to 275 g and cut his carbs down to 100-200 g. Fat would reduce to 45-60 g, and fiber down to 25-40. He has been doing this for decades now. Please explain how his LDL is so high that he needs a statin when he does a low fat, low saturated fat diet??
It would be interesting to also know what his a1c, fasting insulin, trigs and HDL were.
All great questions. If he was on the right plan, he would not need statins.
Recommending statin as preventative therapy? LOL. Glad he is not a practicing physician
he has familial hypercholesterolaemia which is a completely genetic condition which is slightly affected by diet, but most developed nations reccomend it be managed by drugs.
@@matthewshearer8456
When and how he discovered this condition. What is his LDL count?
LDL is not compounding. New LDL does not create more LDL. The compounding growth analysis does not apply here. Also - do these Mendelian studies include statin use or just natural LDL levels? I don't think statins are part of anyone's genetic makeup.
We could also call it calcium build up or plaque(other words often used)...but it all really stems from ldl lipids not being broken down and instead gets stuck on the arteri walls in the entire body, including the heart(obviously) and brain.
@@danieljrgensen133 Yes, but its still not compounding like money does. With money, you get more money as a percent of what money you have every year so it compounds. But LDL does not come from other LDL - there is no compounding.
@@KenOtwell you mean as in "the measured ldl value does not increase indefinitely year by year"?
I dont know how old you are, but if you see a persons ldl through an entire life, you will see it goes up.
All people "collects" ldl particles through their life....but those who keep it low, will increase their chances of living longer and healthier before it becomes a issue.
Theretical speaking, if you wanted to live forever...you would want your ldl levels to be zero.
Those who argues over ldl particle size matter, hasn't understood the ldl particles are basically "waste lipids" that the body can't utilize. Which is also why they got the nickname "bad cholesterol" which technically is actually wrong. As it's not the cholesterol they are carrying that is the problem...but the lipid protein itself. If this is too advanced to understand..do a search on this topic! ;-)
@@danieljrgensen133 I'm not saying LDL doesn't increase on your artery walls every year, just that it's not "compounding." That's a technical term with a very specific meaning, and this ain't it.
The blockages are in the intimal wall of the arteries. There is clearly also an important part of the equation we know almost nothing about, which factors about the intima make some clog and fracture and others not. So much work to do.
Layne, have Dr. Sten Ekberg on your podcast. Discuss the data indicating that LDL and dietary saturated fat lead to heart disease.You may be surprised.
He won't he's not educated enough. He will look like a fool.
@@ketovoreking5440 yeah, Ekberg will
Ekberg gets fact checked
ua-cam.com/video/IFGvs1Qe7cA/v-deo.html
Dude literally used to threaten people that said BCAA didn’t work lol. Anyways i still like Layne. And good job owning it
A recent world wide study showed that not only cardio vascular deaths but all cause deaths declined as ldl went up. This study was from 2002 I believe. This is a correlative study but as you have mentioned here the data is difficult to dismiss.
Was it accounted for age and other conditions? We see curves where the higher the glucose the lower the mortality, same with blood pressure and others. When people are on their death bed they get to a place of malnutrition where glucose is low, ldl and other factors, and they have higher mortality. So don’t get confused with those artifacts in the data, look for randomized control trials, or even better, Mendelian randomization trials as the ones mentioned in the video, there you don’t run the risk of such things.
Love the example of money for ldl. Thank you for sharing❤
BUT LDL only penetrates endothelium if there is injury and weak collagen junctions due to insufficient collagen amino acid cofactors and trace minerals absorption that keep proper endothelial health.
Also, blood viscosity is a big determinant if there is potential damage inside endothelial walls which will signal ldl to repair damage. If you have healthy blood (optimal blood pressure) that should not be a problem. Many arterial blockages happen on brachial junctures, which would explain why thick blood damages interior endothelial at the junctures and how important having optimal blood pressure and elastic endothelial walls health is.
There ARE limitations to Mendelian randomizations, there are not perfect (no adjusted estimate of the relationship between the phenotype of interest and the disease outcome which in turn creates a vulnerability to selection bias).
No mention that Luceine affects aging.
The hunter gatherers who consumed a lot of fat must all have died of heart attacks. Makes perfect sense.
Like Ötzi? 46 years old and already atheroslerosis... 😉
B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
Wait so saturated fats are bad again?
They have always been bad, compared to unsaturated. But probably better than refined sugar.
Great video by the Men in Black.
I really like Layne Norton. But If Layne decreased the massive amount of protein he consumes and increased his healthy veggies, he would not have to take statins, and also eliminate his brain fog.
hes a body builder
@@ridhwankazi9503 Vegan bodybuilders exist and biolayne admits you can build the same muscle on a vegan diet. Granted, it’s when you consume a small daily dose of animal products that cause a greater cholesterol impact rather than it being linear.
@@Mr-hq6ox except that meat has more bioavailable vitamins and nutrients than vegetables by any measurement.
@@yonkocommander5531 Can you show me human trials or large epidemiology where this presents itself as an issue and cannot be resolved through regular consumption of plant foods?
@@Mr-hq6ox nah I find my studies myself and so should you, I’m sure you know how to use Google, but don’t take it from me, take it from Huberman
What statin does Lane take ?
doesn't matter...they're all poison and useless
They should play a drinking game every time Peter mentions his book.
He doesn’t work with athletes and patients. I went pro ifbb on keto. No drugs!
How do you get that much fiber a day?
High veggie intake with their carbs. zucchini, broccoli, la banderita burrito shells, sweet potatoes, etc
@@kellrockets101 chia seeds, quinoa, beans, avocados.
Chia comes out in the toilet just the way it went in. I really enjoy the texture when it’s perfectly gelatinous in water. Just causes liquid poo with the seeds coming right back out. GI Doc is perplexed.
Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, low "net carb" bread products, oats, etc.
Dr. Attia didn't like the way his own mind super scrutinized his keto experience. This was evident when he mentioned not eating a banana for 3 years. That's not a keto problem. That's a Dr. Attia problem. He could have easily worked in a banana, once a week, or couple weeks or whatever. To say Keto made him sick b/c he couldn't eat fruit .... says quite a lot about his self, and less about any particular way of eating.
Yes he is uses his weak sweet tooth cravings as an excuse alot of them do.. keto made me sick blah blah blah no you can't disconnect from your sugar addiction.
A banana (or virtually any fruit) is going to instantly knock you out of ketosis. Are you saying it won't if you only eat it once a week?
Centenarian Studies show HIGH LDL good (50% use tobacco too) so there’s that.
Yea, OK. 😅
That definitely needs more data. Genetics, etc. Basic demographics, Hgt, Wt, BMI. I have had patients who eat fast food every day, severely obese on the Cath Lab table with CLEAR coronary arteries. We have so much work to do.
Wow. I consume only fatty red meat, my LDL is consistently in the upper 200s and every time I get a CAC test it comes back zero. Why is there so much concern about serum cholesterol levels to such a level people are willing to go on statins before ever looking to see if the cholesterol is actually doing anything bad? Hell, people that go strict carnivore and consume outrageous amounts of saturated fats actually decrease their CAC scores over time. For example, my total cholesterol has been over 300 for more than a decade. I eat roughly 150g fat, primarily white animal fat, per day and my arteries are completely clear. I've consumed less than 20g carbs, on average, per day for that time. My experience isn't unique either.
Fascinated with this study
"Higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower risk of stroke (quintile 5 vs quintile 1, HR 0·79 [95% CI 0·64-0·98], ptrend=0·0498). Total fat and saturated and unsaturated fats were not significantly associated with risk of myocardial infarction or cardiovascular disease mortality."
www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext
I know peter doesn't like to get into brands, but I definitely wanted to add a whey protein shake into my daily routine- can anyone recommend some good quality brands that I can get at my local store, or if not, some that I can order online? Also, do most of you all have your whey protein shake with almond milk or what do you generally use to mix with it? Thanks.
The question: You are young person and your LDL is high and you are taking statin, don't you want to question your diet?
These guys still have alot to figure out. With the clients/patients they have they should hold mini studies to validate there claims. At this point they are speculating and making opinions. I think they just are as confused.
Excellent point
Talk of large and small LDL And with small talk about the oxidized damaged small LDL
Think about the impact of long term high LDL: cardio vascular disease.
I do believe it’s a good practice to maybe incorporate an IF 1-2 times a week to allow your system a rest.
@toddcory3137 how does it work well?
@@MK-dj2me stabilises blood sugars, promotes healing in the body inflammation ect allows you access to stored fat quicker the list goes on.
I'm not so sure Layne is deep enough into the lipids, and he admits that. LDL is much more complicated than just an independent marker. But Layne is an honest guy, it's true.
Whats your background to state this ? Legitimately curious btw.
@@bawseeeee602 enough of scientific literature on lipids. Layne tries to cover many topics, and has deep knowledge only in some of them.
@ziilux84 meh, sounds weak tbh. Think I will stick to Layne who has a legitimate PhD and who is a legitimate powerlifting record holder
@@bawseeeee602 i said what Layne himself admitted. He is a protein specialist. He cannot know everything.
Side effects of statin vs the benefit isn't even close. Can't believe he said he's taking a statin.
Are you his doctor?
The net positive of any statin is very much dependent on individual context.
why is that? because you read a blog article?
Statins brought my LDL down from 205 to about 69 over the past 6 months. No side effects whatsoever. I'd say statins are a miracle drug for many people like myself.
The fact that he’s on a statin makes me question his intellect.
@@mikeuptegrove why's that?
You have to understand what is causing the LDL to be increased.
Meaning ie it is not eating saturated fat?
@@Scottlp2 right, not everyone on a high saturated fat diet has high cholesterol. I for instance, eat more saturated fat than anyone I know, and my LDL is normal.
@@doctortoddanderson And you'd be dishonest not to say you're the exception.
@@Joseph1NJ I’m sure I’m not the one exception. Elevations in LDL are multi factorial and not solely driven by saturated fat intake. I’m sure most people would agree with that.
And to be clear, I’m not saying there isn’t an association - of course there is a correlation.
@@doctortoddanderson how could you possibly defend the indefensible? It is a fact High intakes of saturated fat raises LDL in the overwhelming majority of the population, period, full stop. Any further debate is an exercise in futility.
LDL and saturated fat is “Bad” again?? WTF? With all this intelligence and research, can we not get to the truth of what is a heart healthy diet?
If you eat sugar, saturated fat can be deleterious, particularly if consumed together.
If you do not get enough exercise, and/or are overweight, saturated fat can be (but is not always) a confounding factor.
If you are fit (or on your way) and don’t eat (much) sugar, saturated fat is good for you.
If you replace saturated fats with seed oils or sugars, it’s worse. If you replace saturated fats with a Mediterranean diet, you’ll probably be fine, as long as you’re active enough.
@@altosack Been watching those chiropractor UA-cam channels again?
@@jimbob4456 - You are welcome to cite some peer-reviewed non-industry-funded studies which refute what I’ve said here. Barring that, you are welcome to explain the mechanisms of saturated fat metabolism which would support whatever position you are espousing.
As for chiropractors, I’ve met two in my life who had net positive outcomes in their practices, both referred to people I know from my sister, an internal medicine M.D. Both had outstanding knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, which I suspect did not come from their chiropractic education (only one initially went to a chiropractic “school”). Neither had UA-cam channels, as far as I know.
The heart loves unsaturated fat, but the brain loves saturated fats. Balance, eliminate refined sugars and chips, cookies, crackers, store-bought breads and various treats. Make your own breads and crackers at home and just try to eat 80-90% Whole Foods and home made. Watch your portions. Limit alcohol or greatly limit it. Keep caffeine minimal. Drink green teas and hawthorn for heart health.
Cheerios are Heart Healthy. it says it on the box.
Thanks a lot! You restored my world
5:21-5:24 Petard: ''I don't think we are able to understand''. with ''we'' he means everyone else, except himself ironically. Because Petard does ''understand'', he did the calculations people, he has no idea why and no bigger view of why these mechanisms exist, he couldn't predict why, but the calculations show it.
It reminds me somewhat of the spinach story. The measurements showed that there were 35mg of iron per 100 gram. Totally out of range compared to other vegetables. If you don't have any logic, skeptcism, suspicion of authority you may accept this anomaly, but if you are a real critical thinker you want to check and really find out why the fuck would this anomaly exist?
If these guys were the leader of a country and they found out that there were fire trucks surrounding every fire, they would recommend lowering fire trucks to stop fires. ''Our very complicated statistical analyses showed this, but the normal human mind isn't able to grasp this, to understand, even the exceptional human mind isn't able to understand this, this what I've found out.''
2 guys that love hearing themselves talk
So, what is worse? Perhaps risking your chances of heart disease by eating a high fat and low carb diet or eating a high fat and low carb diet and going from obese to normal weight, high blood pressure to normal blood pressure, pre-diabetes/diabetes, to no diabetes, from sleep apenia to no sleep apenia.
Not to mention the multitude of potential side effects from a statin
I don't have any of those problems and I don't follow a high fat diet. Some diets are good adressing some issues but they are not the only answer
Intermittent Fasting IS NOT a weight loss strategy. It is a overall health strategy. If your plan is to get skinny by intermittent fasting, you are going to be disappointed. You should still strive to get all your calories in your eating window. The problem is that a lot of people struggle to consume all those calories in that window which leads to people losing weight and muscle while IF, but it's not the IF that is causing it. It's the calories in vs calories out.
A lot of people also conflate IF and Keto. They think they are the same thing, or they are being told to do both at the same time. That inevitably leads to them not getting the protein they need. It's also physically difficult to consume enough protein and fiber in your eating window while IF.
Please have Dr. Robert Lustig on your show. Or even better, him and layne at the same time. Lustig digs deep into the LDL and it’s a different viewpoint then layne
There is a whole bunch of "LDL deniers" like Lustig that could offer some pretty strong counter opinions to what is in this clip
@@danielhoward7310 There was no mention of the large particle LDL and the small particle LDL. There is a huge difference. The small density is the dangerous aspect of the LDL. You can’t just put all LDL in one basket!
Also Dave Feldman, Malcolm Kendrick
We can see even Doctors of great reputation is not 100% in agreement on 16/8 Intermittent fasting.
Fascinating!
So who is right then ?
I can't believe some health "experts" still worry about fats in the diet and increased risk factors. Fats, especially from animals, are not inflammatory, which is the main driver of risk factors for cardio events, disease or cancer etc. Some seed oils can become inflammatory from the processing. The only fats which are essential (we can't make them) are the polyunsaturated Omega 3 and Omega 6 types. Olive oil has no benefit other than from its polyphenols, the Omega 7 and 9 etc are not needed at all. The same applies to saturated or unsaturated fats, we can easily live without them, but they are not harmful whatsoever.
Peter "My Book" Attia
I don’t get this. If your diet is so good then why bad blood work and statins. Either the diet is wrong or the science is wrong
I suppose it could be familial hypercholesterolemia.
Caloric excess and genetics
Please take a human physiology course before commenting on complex matters. LDL cholesterol can be slightly modified by diet but by a small degree. The primary driver of a persons average LDL range is genetic
@@everettpannkuk326 Diet changes can greatly modify blood serum cholesterol levels. it is easy to double LDL through heavy saturated fat intake.
LDL info see Dr. Nadir Ali, Dr. Paul Mason, and Dave Feldman.
Lane is confused.
And Dr Robert Lustig!
B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
My health has improved with saturated fat. I hope you guys aren’t being seduced by the “bad cholesterol “ economy.
I see so many studies with funding bias. There are at least 20 videos on UA-cam of people saying soy doesn't reduce testosterone and they cite a meta-analysis funded by the soy industry and conducted by a scientist who has been doing soy studies for the industry for 30 years.
He's put himself on a Statin .... thats enough for me to click off the video.
Me too! Exponentially!
How the hell does one eat 60-70g of fiber in a day??
Okay!! Sooo happy to hear others say how horrible Leucine tastes!!!!
Boy, you can really piss off the carnivore and keto advocates!!😅
Leucine does taste like chalk but you get used to it
Statins do not increase longevity Low triglycerides, high HDL and higher Large LDLs is not a risk factor for heart disease. Looking at LDLs without considering the rest is mind boggling.
60 to 70 g of fiber a day lmao!! What a ridiculous thing to do. He must be bloated and gassy all of the time!! My LDL has consistently been over 350 while my triglycerides have been 30 or below and HDL 120 or above for the past three years in which I have eliminated all vegetables and fiber after trying a mostly vegetarian diet for sometime before. All aspects of my health have improved. Obviously this is an n=1 but I encourage everyone to try this out just to see. I don’t think anyone should be scared of LDL cholesterol if their HDL is high if their triglycerides are low and their fasting insulin is low.
Intermittent Fasting never worked for me for restriction. I would always just end up eating more calories because I was so hungry I would binge. Tracking Calories and Macros has been my best tool. It just helps me so much to see what I'm eating, how much I'm eating, and how many carbs, proteins, and fats I'm getting per day. It annoys people around me that I have to spend 5-10 extra minutes logging meals, but it has been so consistent for me.
I’ve not eaten meat in 40 years , no dairy in 20 , 60 now ,still do 250 push ups a day . 6’2 and 180 still carrying a ton of muscle . Plant power 💪
Let's see how many more years before you get problems.
When you do, remember: hight fat carnivore!
Best wishes
Dude said he’s carrying a lot of muscle at 180
@@soonahero what's your point?
Muscle mass starts to go down fast as from 60, 65
Let's wait and see.
What is like to know is how much fast twitch fibers are there. What's the strength of muscles as that is what matters not just mass
What's lipids panel, insulin resistance tests, deficiencies, etc
Muscle mass is not all
@@soonahero dude.
Fail.
Statin 👎
Donald Layman PhD University of Illinois retired Peter Attia had him on a podcast. According to Layman's research 3 G of leucine is needed to initiate muscle mass growth with a total 40G protein for the first meal. For new people doing weight training most effectively taken after the weight training. For experienced weight training when the meal is taking not critical. The total daily protein should be 1.6 G per kilogram of body weight. Ideally 4 protein meals a day. At least three meals. He said if you're experienced in competitive bodybuilding intermittent fasting is fine.
Virtually every nutrition expert research and clinical I have heard/read recommends intermittent fasting/time restricted eating 16:8.
These recommendations vary so much with each expert and change over time. Nutrition diet and Longevity opinions are very fluid.
Couldn't be more wrong on LDL!
Really?
B. A. Ference et al., ‘Low-density lipoproteins cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. 1. Evidence from genetic, epidemiologic, and clinical studies. A consensus statement from the European Atherosclerosis Society Consensus Panel’, Eur Heart J, vol. 38, no. 32, pp. 2459-2472, Aug. 2017, doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehx144.
I love how Layne changes his views, but attacks other scientists who have different points of view.
Peter Attia's watch, is that s submarine? I very nice on a leather strap
High LDL that is not in the presence of hyperinsulimia is meaningless. The marker is HDL/Trygleceride.
I totally disagree with this guy.
@@stevet5549 The science is complete. Saturated fat is healthy. Go do all of the research and don't believe me.
@@MK-ft3qt I agree but I wouldn't say science is ever complete
@@TudorIrimescu That's true. However, there's so much evidence now that high LDL from low carb high fat diets drastically improved biomarkers that have been shown to cause metabolic syndrome when these biomarkers are imbalanced.
I can't imagine you saying a high A1C, low HDL and high triglycerides is a good thing in the presence of high LDL....that's a heart attack walking and we know this from meta studies.
I can safely say the cardiovascular disease is not one biomarker, but a larger picture of all biomarkers...just like with cancer, it's multifaceted and not one thing.
The elephant in the room is that there are two types of LDL. The large buoyant, and the small. Statins only bring down the healthy buoyant is what I Understand from the research. The small density LDL are the culprits
6:04 the endothelium getting saturated fat in it is not because of the saturated fat it's the type of saturated fat, what is carried with etc. etc. it's not just eating the saturated fat, you guys are not talking about these flawed studies in the right way you're completely misleading people, eating a hamburger is totally different than eating a hamburger on a bun with toxic seed oil mayonnaise . This is why I'm not gonna subscribe to your show you're not intellectual enough to look at the details and the new wants and break everything down .
Saturated fat penetrates the endothelium?