Thanks for all the great info. This video was about 3min long and had 15min worth of info. Rather than most videos that have 3min of info and are 15 min long. Thanks again
Line it up how you want it. Start sticking the shims into the gap. Try the first one that doesn't slip in. Odds are good that is the one, or the next thickness up, that will be the correct size once you tighten things down. Doesn't always work, but it can cut down on the trial and error of randomly guessing.
Best washer system is the accu washer from precision armament. Enough washers for 9 muzzle devices and easy enough for any novice to use. Paid 35$ at brownells and well worth it. Brownells is definitely the goto for anything gun related online.
Great video. As others have commented, I have seen many installations that call for a torque wrench (20 ft lbs IIRC) and rockset instead of Loctite. It's hard to question Gemtech, but what do we do when manufacturers disagree on best practices LOL.
Agree. When we tear the threads or damage the barrel over torqued maybe I wonder if they'll blame the installer for not using recommended torque specs. I think this vid falls a bit short.
ugh, so close....blue loctite fails at 300 F, so dont use that. Red fails at 500F and probably isnt a good option either. Go with rocksettt which is rated for 1500F. Nothing worse than taking your can off and having the muzzle device come with it.
I was getting ready to comment the same thing. Wow this guy does that for a living too. Might not buy anything from that company after seeing this one.
Eh. He leaves out a very important step. You need to know the max torque to set the device to. Never just crank it. You might damage the barrel that way. Imo this video should be taken off.
Brownells is a great source of info... thankyou. One question if you don't mind - On my Tavor-7 I used a shoulder ring and one thin shim to time my OSS suppressor mount. It was about 15-deg off at hand snug. I used Rocksett and wrenched it into perfect time with no torque wrench. Didn't need to "go gorrilla" on it, but it took some force. Alignment rod shows the suppressor is perfectly concentric. * My question is about barrel fixturing... I just held the rifle between my feet and relied on the receiver to hold the barrel. No barrel fixture. Was that a bad move?
I have a compensator that keeps coming loose on my pistol. People keep suggesting shims but I don’t see how a shim which is basically a washer will keep it snug?
F. I just built up an DD M4A1 upper and used a crush washer for the good ol' A2 birdcage. little bird in my ear sowed doubt that I needed a shim kit instead.
I have a little issue with this video... this had a barrel with a large torque face.. my 2 30 cals have a smaller face and the result is the shims don't center and when their torqued become distorted and result in an inadequate torque... I've tried 2 different brands of shims and had the same result with both...
OK I'm confused too now because the instructions says to use ROCKSETT. I put two drops of RED on mine just to be sure. I'll keep an eye on it when I use it. ETA: Just to add I have 4 gemtech cans.
I just bought a VG6 to put on a Ruger compact ranch rifle. It comes with a crush washer. Can I buy a stainless steel half by 28 thin nut, threaded on and then use loctite when I jam the two together during timing? Well that provide me a safe installation?
That's what I have heard as well. In my research, Rockset seems to be the best practice. Though it's really hard to disagree with Gemtech of all companies...
yes...and so does red. if youre shooting one mag over the course of one hour, youll be fine, but any sustained or rapid succession fire will turn locktite (blue or red) to pixie dust.
My Silencerco ASR muzzle brake is not concentric with the bore without any shims. I have to use shims to time it and still not concentric with the bore. Do you have any advice?
How many shims is safe to use and what’s not safe. I’m sure there’s a proper amount you can only use until it will blow your muzzle brake off your threads and completely destroying your barrel. Especially a 308
You just cranked it on? I'm no professional but I believe most muzzle devices have a torque specific range to fall between. IE surefire is 20-35lbs i believe.
My Dead Air flash hider and brake call for 25-35 foot pounds... The thread pitches are 1/2 by 28 for a 5.56 rifle and 5/8 by 24 for a 7.62 rifle and the torque is the same for both.
Putting loctite on a muzzel device is a waste of time unless your gun never gets hot. But that's not going to be the case running a can. Heat kills loctite,blue and red. If you want it to stay use rock set.
From hand tight you'll need another 15-20 degrees for proper torque. Too little torque and the mount will loosen and you may encounter a baffle strike damaging the suppressor.
Maybe I'm a little crazy at this time of the morning, but wouldn't it be faster to just bend your little card with the shims and try fitting them into the gap to see which size is the closest? I mean before you start best guestimation fitting of shims. Unless you want to just remove them from the card and try gauging the gap. Just a little test and adjust. Like I said, I've been up a long time without coffee so I may be babbling incoherencies.
It should be noted that you don't want to have anymore that about 3ft./lbs. of torque holding your muzzle device in place. Any more that that and you risk deforming the internal dimensions of your bore at the muzzle. This can cause accuracy problems. I've seen this happen many times during long distance rifle matches.
Interesting, the industry standard accepted spec is 20 ft/lbs, so it seems odd to hear this. Not discounting your experience, you probably know more than I do, but then why would the industry spec be what it is?
@@josh48315 I can only assume it's because no one has taken the time to test and evaluate these things like many in the competitive distance shooting arena have done to seek out every bit of accuracy they can from their rifles.
Thank you prince Harry, this is exactly what I was looking for.
Sane here. Was gona just use a crush washer until watching this
lolololol
I was thumb number 78 👍
Thanks for all the great info. This video was about 3min long and had 15min worth of info. Rather than most videos that have 3min of info and are 15 min long. Thanks again
Line it up how you want it. Start sticking the shims into the gap. Try the first one that doesn't slip in. Odds are good that is the one, or the next thickness up, that will be the correct size once you tighten things down. Doesn't always work, but it can cut down on the trial and error of randomly guessing.
Spark plug gap tool works great for figuring out what shims to use...
🤔 Never thought of that... maybe a good idea. I'll try that 👍. Thanks!
Excellent vid!!. Very helpful, informative and concise ! Threes a charm. Thanks Brownells!
Awesome video I was worried that I needed both with a comp. I just ordered! Good stuff!
Rocksett is prefered, I mean even red loctite turns to dust after the barrel heats up. I believe Rocksett is rated at 1300*
Rocket is if you’re going to war lol which I’m sure you’re not
I have had good results with Rocksett.
@@Dude17768 its cheap, why not?
@@seldian Because most people don't have it laying around the house as they do loctite...
Got a like at 1:18 - I love the honesty!
dial the extension to where it lines up, measure with a feeler gauge, no guessing required.
Blue and red loctite fail under high temperature. Use Rocksett. It's made specifically for that purpose.
Very informative video in a short amount of time. Nicely done.
Rocsett is preferred it’s a ceramic so it’ll break free easily when you need it to but heat won’t bother it up to 1300 degrees
Thunder Beast recommends Red 272 loctite on their suppressor brakes and flash-hiders.
Best washer system is the accu washer from precision armament. Enough washers for 9 muzzle devices and easy enough for any novice to use. Paid 35$ at brownells and well worth it. Brownells is definitely the goto for anything gun related online.
Great video. As others have commented, I have seen many installations that call for a torque wrench (20 ft lbs IIRC) and rockset instead of Loctite. It's hard to question Gemtech, but what do we do when manufacturers disagree on best practices LOL.
the only thing I can say is that the manufacturer knows best for their products, since they designed it with a particular method in mind
Agree. When we tear the threads or damage the barrel over torqued maybe I wonder if they'll blame the installer for not using recommended torque specs. I think this vid falls a bit short.
ugh, so close....blue loctite fails at 300 F, so dont use that. Red fails at 500F and probably isnt a good option either. Go with rocksettt which is rated for 1500F. Nothing worse than taking your can off and having the muzzle device come with it.
I was getting ready to comment the same thing. Wow this guy does that for a living too. Might not buy anything from that company after seeing this one.
Thanks, so the blue thread locker will not melt out? I keep hearing it will.
Thanks, I found this really helpful!
Eh. He leaves out a very important step. You need to know the max torque to set the device to. Never just crank it. You might damage the barrel that way. Imo this video should be taken off.
Brownells is a great source of info... thankyou. One question if you don't mind -
On my Tavor-7 I used a shoulder ring and one thin shim to time my OSS suppressor mount. It was about 15-deg off at hand snug. I used Rocksett and wrenched it into perfect time with no torque wrench. Didn't need to "go gorrilla" on it, but it took some force. Alignment rod shows the suppressor is perfectly concentric.
* My question is about barrel fixturing... I just held the rifle between my feet and relied on the receiver to hold the barrel. No barrel fixture. Was that a bad move?
AWESOME!!! Thanks for the Video🙂
I still use the crush washer and a shin and have never had an issue. I don't like to use loctite on the muzzle threads instead I prefer Aeroshell 33.
What about using a lock nut?
I have a compensator that keeps coming loose on my pistol. People keep suggesting shims but I don’t see how a shim which is basically a washer will keep it snug?
Great explanation
F. I just built up an DD M4A1 upper and used a crush washer for the good ol' A2 birdcage. little bird in my ear sowed doubt that I needed a shim kit instead.
I have a little issue with this video... this had a barrel with a large torque face.. my 2 30 cals have a smaller face and the result is the shims don't center and when their torqued become distorted and result in an inadequate torque... I've tried 2 different brands of shims and had the same result with both...
so shims are essentially washers but in the thread?
OK I'm confused too now because the instructions says to use ROCKSETT.
I put two drops of RED on mine just to be sure. I'll keep an eye on it when I use it.
ETA: Just to add I have 4 gemtech cans.
They’re probably GSL Cans if they’re from 1994-2015. They still have old Gemtech stuff if you’re needing anything.
I just bought a VG6 to put on a Ruger compact ranch rifle. It comes with a crush washer. Can I buy a stainless steel half by 28 thin nut, threaded on and then use loctite when I jam the two together during timing? Well that provide me a safe installation?
Wouldn't blue loctite basically just turn into a thread lubricant after the first mag?
No, it does not.
That's what I have heard as well. In my research, Rockset seems to be the best practice. Though it's really hard to disagree with Gemtech of all companies...
It actually turns into powder.
yes...and so does red. if youre shooting one mag over the course of one hour, youll be fine, but any sustained or rapid succession fire will turn locktite (blue or red) to pixie dust.
Could you put it on see where it stops, back it off to 1200, check with a feeler gauge, and select the shim accordingly?
No, because the spacer will have a certain amount of crush when the device is torqued on.
Do i still need shims if i am using a flasher with ports Star pattern like the A2??
My Silencerco ASR muzzle brake is not concentric with the bore without any shims. I have to use shims to time it and still not concentric with the bore. Do you have any advice?
Do you recommend using a torque wrench?
A torque wrench is not necessary. :)
Was that red loctite in the video though
What muzzle was that?. I like it!
How many shims is safe to use and what’s not safe. I’m sure there’s a proper amount you can only use until it will blow your muzzle brake off your threads and completely destroying your barrel. Especially a 308
just about forever.
What are you using to hold the upper in the vice?
You just cranked it on? I'm no professional but I believe most muzzle devices have a torque specific range to fall between. IE surefire is 20-35lbs i believe.
what if you have no intentions of using a suppressor, will a crush washer be a viable choice then?
Should be fine
They're fine with A2 flash hiders, shim any muzzle device over $50 that needs timing.
You can get very close on shim size if you remember that 1 revolution is right at .025
Can u use these with other company’s flash hider suppressor mount
thank you, just bought me first suppressor and would have probably used a crush washer instead of a shim to align it.
Do you need to torque?
20-30lbs of torque, I believe.
Yes. Why this video leaves out this important step is really strange.
You can just use the flash hider without the sound suppressor?
What if you have a muzzle break that's round with no flats for a wrench? No one on UA-cam shows how to install them using a washer or shim.
what wrench do i need?
what kind of rail cover is on the side of that gun?
The rail cover is provided with the Daniel Defense upper.
can I use a crush washer with shims?
One or the other
What’s the torque spec?
I believe standard spec for muzzle devices is 20 ft/lb
My Dead Air flash hider and brake call for 25-35 foot pounds... The thread pitches are 1/2 by 28 for a 5.56 rifle and 5/8 by 24 for a 7.62 rifle and the torque is the same for both.
You guys and your blue loctite.....ROCKSETT.
BLUE locktite in a muzzle device that is going to get very hot? Not even red locktite will hold for long.
Putting loctite on a muzzel device is a waste of time unless your gun never gets hot. But that's not going to be the case running a can. Heat kills loctite,blue and red. If you want it to stay use rock set.
These are a pain in the ass to keep aligned when torqued. You can be 10 degrees off but once you torque it they are out of alignment again.. 😭
Wheres the sound??
do I need shims if it lines up perfectly with a little torque?
From hand tight you'll need another 15-20 degrees for proper torque. Too little torque and the mount will loosen and you may encounter a baffle strike damaging the suppressor.
Use Rocksett not loctite.
Maybe I'm a little crazy at this time of the morning, but wouldn't it be faster to just bend your little card with the shims and try fitting them into the gap to see which size is the closest? I mean before you start best guestimation fitting of shims. Unless you want to just remove them from the card and try gauging the gap. Just a little test and adjust. Like I said, I've been up a long time without coffee so I may be babbling incoherencies.
It should be noted that you don't want to have anymore that about 3ft./lbs. of torque holding your muzzle device in place. Any more that that and you risk deforming the internal dimensions of your bore at the muzzle. This can cause accuracy problems. I've seen this happen many times during long distance rifle matches.
Interesting, the industry standard accepted spec is 20 ft/lbs, so it seems odd to hear this. Not discounting your experience, you probably know more than I do, but then why would the industry spec be what it is?
@@josh48315 I can only assume it's because no one has taken the time to test and evaluate these things like many in the competitive distance shooting arena have done to seek out every bit of accuracy they can from their rifles.
Can you use an old crush washer as a shim?
No
Shims suck ! I only use flash hiders
used crush washers for years without a single incident. not sure what hes talking about
Not always but it can cause baffle strikes
@@michaelsmith1141 how so? regardless if crush washers or shims are used, they only change forward or backwards, never up/down
It's not a silencer it's a suppressor
Same thing. Dont be pedantic.
The guy that INVENTED them says you're wrong... patents.google.com/patent/US1482805
Yeah. Go to our local gunshop and ask for a silencer. They will literally laugh in our face then correct you. SUPPRESSOR!!!
@@wesleywelch3043 Hiram Percy Maxim called then a Silencer in his patent when he invented them, that's good enough for me.
Your LGS guys are ignorant.
You have that backwards.