Why do people play MMO's solo? [MMOPINION]
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2022
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Adam Millard: Fishing video: • Why The Hell Are There...
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Just because the 'MMO' bit means massively multiplayer online, you don't always want to play with other people, you sometimes want to adventure SOLO.
But why do people want to do this, the entire point of an MMO is to play together, to team up, to become part of a community, right?
Let's examine the reasons people play solo, and then we'll look at and see how solo play has always been supported, even back in everquest. - Розваги
![Can you Judge an MMO in just 1 hour? [MMOPINION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpkGbVVLExw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Can you Judge an MMO in just 1 hour? [MMOPINION]](/img/tr.png)
Thank you Guild Wars 2 for sponsoring this video! Use my link to get an XP boost pack and mini pet for your new character.
www.inflcr.co/SHEr1
Happy you continue to work with sponsors who allow you to keep your brand and integrity, I hope your success continues! You deserve it
Your comment GW2 finally finding you is just hilarious. 😂
Also, you need two pages for your patreon. Or else some day the letters will be unreadable. ;)
Definitely mmos need to have a fishing mini game
The answer is I don't have friends and solo is more casual and relaxing, Scholars and Poets you're welcome the question has been answered.
I personally quite enjoy the "Being alone among others" aspect of it, as someone in the chat so beautifully said. It's nice, walking around a "living" world without having to interact with it.
Exactly 10000% this ❤ I don’t always like interacting with others, but it’s nice seeing other people socialize and have fun around me :)
I like that too. And knowing there's other people there if I decide I do want to group up. I also like to stop and look at people's outfits
This. 1000 %. I love being my avatar in a world, sourrounded by others. I love Guild Wars 2 especially because of the Coop-Nature of its content, everything as one big party againt the enviroment so to speak.
This, so much this
Same!
I play solo because everyone always wants to blast through everything at warp speed and I want to look around, explore and enjoy the beautiful environments. I also like seeing other players and then seeing me but partying up makes it almost like a job, not relaxation.
This. I like to take my time and soak up the atmosphere. When others are hurtling through, I feel like I'm being pulled by an elastic tether.
And then they neither know the lore because they didn't even read quests and they complain about having nothing to do because they just wanted to clear the endgame content as soon as possible.
Likewise, I’ve yet to find an mmorpg friend who likes to take their time as well.
Same here, I prefer enjoying the game alone because most just speed through. I only found one person so far that doesn't speed through with me. It's rare to find a couple of people that don't speed through.
Exactly 💯
There was a quote I heard once something like “I don’t want to be alone, I want to be left alone.” There is something to be said about being around others but yet having privacy for yourself. Many people view this as the ideal environment.
Yeah I can get the being left alone and practically I can play by myself I mean I play wizard101 and pirate one-on-one by myself I have other accounts that I can actually log on to if I need help with the character that I'm trying to max out I do the same thing on Toontown I do the same thing on app games where I can play by myself and team up with my other accounts if need be then that way I just avoid the drama from other people
I completely agree with that quote.
Literally me right here
100%
Dude, you nailed it. I've never actually tried an MMO seriously because of the social aspects of it. I just want a game where I can get lost in a world inhabited by people, but not forced to interact with them. Exactly as you said, it's relaxing.
Give FFXIV a try. The generous free trial is neat too. Most of the people are pretty great to work with as well. There's very little content where you must que with a bunch of people and you'll find 99% of the time it's a bunch of people just trying to get it done like you without much being said.
@Kill Bill For real. Knowing the pay to play system which runs out even offline ruined it for me since I wanted to play with my brother. We don't get much time either.
@@boredom77730 $15 a month is way better then other games that charge you for every little convience. Everything in FFXIV is available in game thats why you pay the sub. If you dont have money its understandable though. Just get the free trial is includes the 1st expansions so you can get a few hundred hours of gameplay
@@boredom77730 still much better than stressful MMO I used to play with very little content and no meaningful story.
Ex: Perfect World VNG, Chimeraland, Dragon Nest, Dragon raja, Ragnarok Online Eternal love and its subsequent installation, etc
Plus FFXIV doesn't force you to play everyday to keep up and I enjoy the game with friend when I want to. Unlike one I used to play. they forced player to play PVP content, doing dailies etc to make me eligible to play with my friend, that it feels like chore. my life felt better when I drop them all and only play ffxiv for MMO nowadays.
@@DailyFix21 exactly. I played lots of F2P MMO that my friend played. but when I drop it then play FFXIV only My life felt better. plus the story in FFXIV so good. Even the class quest story are enjoyable. I still not finish all of it yet too... I skip story for job class when I am busy then rewatch on inn most of time. It is like reading novel/watching some movie. the price is cheap compared to content after all.
The part of "having people around without the need to be social" hits so deep. Humans are social by nature and it feels good to know there's other people close by going about their business but interacting with them requires effort and sensibility. Sometimes you don't want to go through that effort.
It's just like in real life xD
I am a pretty "lonely" guy (not as bad as it sounds, i have friends and all) but i always enjoy going to a bar and have a drink just to be out there, see people
Yup, for me at least i like having people besides me but after a while it's just tiring talking to them when i can go somewhere else or do stuff
Yeah if i was playing an MMORPG and there was just nobody around the game would feel like it was missing something. Just the fact that there are people around so the option to socialize is there if you want to is what i enjoy. Hell i remember when i'd be grinding sometimes i'd just look at what someone else was doing to see what that class had to offer
Very true. I used to run a RP venue in FF14 and the amount of people who just comes in to chill and read other people's RP without saying a word (and only does emotes) are a lot.
I'm one of those solo players who like to explore the content that the game offers, being part of the game, but not committing to anyone, so I have fun and avoid stress. I admit that when my friends played it was more fun, but now, at 35, I just want to be able to enjoy the little time I have to play.
I am the same way. I remember people were shocked when I told them that it took me 1 and a half years to reach max level in World of Warcraft playing from day 1 off the shelf. Two reasons it too that long mainly. One, I enjoyed doing every side quest and exploring every corner of the world. Two, I played a hunter and wanted to systematically try out every single creature in the game that I was able to tame, including the rare ones that were near impossible to get. I spent time doing things like sneaking into the enemy capital town so I could find a good spot to go fishing and look on as people did double takes when they were confused to see me there. I wasn't rushing to get to raids, I wasn't in a hurry to get to the end game, I just wanted to experience the game - and I did.
Yep. Even in an MMO like Maplestory there's a bunch of annoying stuff involved with being a part of a guild and being tied to people. It creates new chores that you have to do to make people happy. Way better to not have to worry about any of that. This is also another reason why I HATE subscription based MMO's. Because sometimes I might go a month without playing. I hate that feeling of "having" to play a game. I just want to play when I want, how I want. I don't want to feel forced to play. I often like things in these MMO's that other people don't like. Such as crafting, or jumping puzzles. I REALLY like jumping puzzles. Everybody else seems to not want to do these types of things.
@@HoodrichShinobi Yeah, they try to attract different types of gamers with various features and mechanics alien to their genre to expand their target audience. Problem is when an MMO tries to expand and reach too many people, they get too far away from the core audience that makes up the majority of players. Everyone thinks they know the formula to reach the most people, but there are some genres that have incompatible features for certain audiences.
For example, hardcore PvP games like PUBG and CS:GO don't really appeal to casual players because of the skill cap differences between your average player and the average casual player. Skill makes such a large difference, the average casual will never be able to place high enough without a little luck. Then you have slow paced city builders and 4x games. These are perfect for casual players that can quit and load them up at any time, but difficult for people who want multiplayer games or competitive play against other players. And then you have the crafting survival genre which might as well be the Japanese anime Isekai genre of video games. There are so many of them and half of them are trash, but so many people have zero interest in them that some companies try to throw extra junk in there to attract others not normally into this genre.
For example, we had Fortnite. Very popular game from the battle royale genre... but many people wouldn't know it originally started out as an instanced farming crafting building survival zombie horde defense game. I loved the original game. Wasn't a fan when they saw PUBG and decided to shift gears. Especially after they already got hundreds of thousands of dollars from their current players with their cash shop before dropping that surprise on us all. When you try to mix in the wrong mechanics and features into the wrong genre of game in an attempt to reach that untapped audience, you often drive away the players who wanted exactly what you already had and are changing to make it accessible for a different group entirely. It worked for them which is a bit of a shocker, but didn't sit well with me or some of the other people who helped get them to that point in the first place.
MMO's are no exception. Dark Ages of Camelot is a great example of an early MMO that had part of the formula World of Warcraft would eventually find, but had more forced PvP if you wanted to reach the end game and have amazing skills and stats. It was a good system, don't get me wrong, but you could not consider your character maxed out or complete without ranking up in PvP content to unlock special skills and abilities. That said, the PvP system was extremely fair and was often composed of either roaming groups looking for fights, groups assaulting claimed castles, groups defending claimed castles, or groups going into the PvP dungeon only able to be entered when your faction held more castles than anyone else. People already in there could stay and potentially kill a bunch of players from the faction that claimed it, but often times it was only a matter of time before you were purged. It was certainly a rogues playground though, with stealth and assassination skills taking out many a healer and dooming groups to die at the hands of high level PvE mobs.
DAoC was very casual-friendly and had many classes that were great at soloing a large portion of the content. Unfortunately their expansions were heavily PvE focused, and many players who joined for the PvP were disappointed that there was nothing added for them. It was very lore and story driven, with Trials of Atlantis adding water-based combat and exploration, water dungeons and monsters, and their Labyrinth of the Minotaur adding tons of Greek and Egyptian style mythological stories, zones, and creatures. Unfortunately their last expansion was 3 years after any real changes or additions to PvP were added, so their core audience got bored with it, while the solo players and casuals had more to enjoy for a long time. There are still dedicated players playing the game even after all this time, and in my opinion, they had one of the best PvP systems of all MMO's. Dark Ages of Camelot created what I see as an idealized standard in arena combat these days, but they were ahead of their time using 3 factions queuing into a mock battlefield with a castle in the middle. Each faction could siege and capture the castle after defeating a dozen NPC guards and a mini-raid boss in addition to any other players competing for it. While I see many games use something similar, I feel DAoC did it best.
IMO one of the key parts of a MMO is the "passive interaction". I've seen you have it a few times in the "worst mmo ever" series, it's that time when a random player suddenly team up with you for a single world shared quest or the like, that moment when you two instinctively know what you must do and start supporting one another even though there is no real pressure, you start paying attention to each other's moves and cooperate. Even if you two just end up wordlessly tipping your hats to one another and continuing your ways afterwards. Some of my most memorable MMO experiences were simple things like this, like that time in a certain MMO when I accidentally agro'ed all monsters in an entire higher-level area as a new player and was just running for my life, then suddenly an higher level player came to my rescue. A long time later the same happened again, but I was the saviour to a newer player instead. Also that time when I spotted a guy with a funny name entering a dungeon and just randomly asked him " 'seductive pudding '? Why did you choose this name?" "because it's seductive" he said, to what I could only reply "understandable". That's a lot more than just passing by a stranger in the street, and something only MMOs can really achieve
You hit the nail on the head
Exact same thing happened to me probably almost 20 years ago lol. Your game wasn't kalonline per chance was it? :P
This is why I really like the mission-based stuff in Warframe. I came be alone for the most part, play missions with random people. Often it's Solent cooperation. Sometimes you get to chatting and it enhances the mission. But after that we part ways again, and there's no real pressure.
I remember experiences like that too. Newbie getting chased by mobs way too powerful for him, so I just shoot an ability or a few shots his way to kill them. I remember playing unturned and this happened many times, seeing a naked player getting chased by 20+ zombies, and I just unload into them, headshotting every last one so the player is safe. Then just go about my day not saying a word.
This illustrates the fundamental problem with these game worlds. It’s too damn hard to communicate. Fingers are too busy with controls to type. Voice chat through the game is often not a feature, and the bloke isn’t on your discord. (I don’t play these games anymore, so apologies if they finally clued in on this.) as long as that is the case, interaction with other people, perhaps what could be the most wonderful part of the game, just falls flat. If the game spent more time making people shine as people instead of as canned character classes or stereotyped races or just encouraging conflict for its own sake, they would be places to come back to year after year.
One of the reasons I play MMOs by myself is the sense of long term progression. I like that all of the time I am putting into this character are going towards a long term goal, whereas in other games I don't get that same sense. I love that sense of being a part of a world with other players but doing my own thing with that sense of long term progression.
I don't even play MMO's I just really like this guy's videos.
II mute the audio and watch him. 👀
@@Snoozy96 damn you thirsty af xD
@@Snoozy96 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@Snoozy96 🧐
I burned out on MMOs years ago, but I am still drawn to watch these.
this video speaks to my soul
there's something cozy about being in an online world on your own adventure, but seeing other people run around at the same time
I’ve always played solo on mmos. Mostly because my friends don’t play them but also because I enjoy the feeling of being alone among others. Seeing other people focusing on their on characters and doing their on mission is very calming and comforting for some reason😭
I'm the same, alone among others makes the game feel a little less dead.
I can't play first person rpgs because they're trying so hard to make the world/characters feel alive that it touches the uncanny valley and I feel intensely alone when I hear the npcs pretend to have conversations, and in the chat window.
But put me in an MMO and just knowing that somewhere in the game there's someone else there, fixes that.
We're all in this together but we all have our own journey to follow
I feel you about it being comforting. Like, other people are relaxing and having fun in a game just like me. That must mean that everything is okay right now.
For me, it's because of social anxiety and fearing I would absolutely suck in a party. I am usually a healer in MMOs, half because it makes soloing more doable to me and half because I can just heal randos that are struggling without them, probably, realizing who healed them.
Chad
Lol, then I would play with you. I'm afraid of MMOs and hardly understand anything about them, so I would probably need a massive amount of healing 😅
@@5minutemovies977 to be fair, if you've played single player games, you'll do fine. MMOs don't function that much differently than single player games, it's only a smidge different
OMG I found a way to deal with my anxiety. I just tell em up front that I am meh. Then I tend to do a lot better.
I feel the same way. I've always had a lot of social anxiety. I'm always worried about being bad and letting down the party. Being yelled at because I did did a poor job. It has stopped me from playing multiplayer games for fear of dragging down the team and people being upset with me.
I usually play a healer in mmos as well. It often makes soloing easier. I always liked healing random players who seemed to need it out in the world as well. I guess it sort of creates a positive interaction rather than joining a party and having potentially bad interactions. People never get upset with you for healing them. They often thank you which feels good, or they just move on.
I never know what to say to anyone so I usually end up saying nothing. Even if I do say hi to someone they often won't say anything back. It kind of reinforces that 'No one wants to play with me because of me' feeling I often have. I know this isn't really the case, they're just doing their own thing.
I didn't understand why I kept going back to MMOs and MMOlites until I decided to go for a walk downtown one day. The city I lived in at the time had an "arts district" that was this street with a brick road, colorful murals, casual dining, cozy shops, and beautiful plant life in an otherwise grey city.
I was alone but surrounded by people who I didn't need to interact with. We were all content to enjoy the experience seperately, together. It made me think of walking through the hub or market in one of these games. It's one of my favorite feelings now.
We live in a video game world
@@CanK7 god i wish that was true, it would be fun to walk through lumbridge or riverwood or something like that
@@tylerwhaley4872 There are enchanting places on this earth too. Northern lights, polar nights, midnight sun, tropical islands, magnificent castles and forts, forests with trees that look like Ents (you heard that right!), sapphire blue seas, plankton that glows like starlight on shores, and so much more. And apart from physical locations, we have the capabilities and creativity to create our own great awe-inspiring stories here in this world. The magic is here too.
Walking in the city in real life is boring. In todays society we do boring things like banking accountant plumbing janitor .
In Middle Ages we did fun things like be a warrior ; farmer, fishing, black smith , fearing the tribes invading us.
In Roman Empire ages we did fun things
In Atlantis we did fun things
In the year 3000AD we will do fun things like being space cowboys.
As we move closer to the matrix or ready player one style society where we live in a fantasy.
One day humanity will discover time travel. And then we will discover if in ancient times or future it is really as fun as we fantasizes. Or discover that life is boring in all generations only in virtual or holodeck is it fun
In child development there is a concept called "parallel play", and I realize that although this is something we think of as children doing, I personally love the concept of playing alone, together. I don't mind just vibing with other people, and this is especially nice when you're just getting to know people. I like to get to know the people I'm playing with first. I personally struggle with issues involving overstimulation. Groups of people can be loud, chaotic, flood chat. There are so many noises, and sounds, and voices that the entire experience can overwhelm me. That plus, the desire to savor things, read in game books...work was stressful enough, I just want to make what left of it better.
this. I'm autistic, and parallel play + being overwhelmed by lots of sounds and stuff is pretty common amongst autistic people. Parallel play is weirdly one of the only ways I can enjoy singleplayer games.
same. makes you wonder why the most honest answer is that today's humanity no longer has the refinement of social circles, community-ism is near dead and can't be revived.
This! Today you are just thrown into groups with random people through mechanics like Dungeon Finder and I really hate this experience. But back in the days of vanilla WoW, you spent hours of time talking to the people you grouped up with, while sitting in Ironforge waiting for a healer. You got to know the people you were playing with better and that made for an overall more satisfying playing experience, at least for me. By the time we were getting to the dungeon, we were already a real team and could take on everything that was thrown in our way! And when I wasn't doing dungeons, I was mostly doing the grindy things on my own, competing with my guild leader for levels. I really miss this old way of playing.
It's called being introvert, and no it's not being shy, you're normal :3
@@skyknight0408 Yes! WoW also never forces you into guilds like every other MMO. It is entirely your CHOICE to do so. You don't HAVE to do late game dungeons/raids with 25+ people. Obviously yes, that is encouraged because it is apart of late game gameplay, but you never have to. My husband and I will never run with anyone else in a dungeon until we get to the dungeon point that requires far more than we can handle. Until then, we're doing every dungeon solo as a Pal/Lock combo. It works well when we're at least 3 lvls above the enemies, and we aren't competitive. We play to do every quest in the entire game, and just chill while my voidwalker with 2000+ health currently just tanks the entire world without effort.
I just miss when games were played for fun, not sport. Yes, you should have the CHOICE to be competitive, and who you're competitive with should have the CHOICE to compete against you. But mmos besides WoW force people together instantly. There is no talking. No chatting. No getting to know the guild owners. And if you dare to be a new player, they'll invite you into the guild just to abuse you. And with zero support, there's no way to get justice against the abusive guilds either. It just makes a horrible experience for anyone, including people who actually want to play with others
I have never really enjoyed playing games with other people, we all play how we want to, as you stated. The fact that I can solo an MMO at my place and do what I enjoy has always been my pleasure, no worries about a clan or having to play with other players, just me and the world.
One of the best social experiences I've had was in Project Gorgon. It has pretty small but active player base and the game is designed in a way that you will see those active people pretty often. Some examples of those design decisions:
1) the "starter" town is a place that everyone visits from time to time because of the services it offers
2) people like to play music and dance in the town square, they give bonuses to everyone who watches/listens to them so people will hang out there even if they don't participate
3) there are player events like poetry night etc. so a lot of people gather into the inn to hang out
..etc..
This interaction is not forced and it's quite ephemeral with no other requirements than being there. However, when you see the same faces again and again they become familiar.. and you start to feel like you're a part of something. This familiarity also discourages antisocial behaviour because you're likely to be remembered... and it encourages aiding others and other positive behaviour.
Once I took a break for a few months and when I came back a couple of people sent tells to me to welcome me back and asked if I needed anything.. they weren't close friends or people I regularly played/partied with, just people I had interacted with casually in the past. It was unprecedented and very heartwarming.
This is a lot like Parallel Play in healthy relationships, where 2 or more people are in the same room doing different activities and just enjoying being around each other even if they aren't talking. It's just nice to feel like other people are around and can help you if you need them. Or that you can be there to help other people and be needed too. It's very comforting.
Oh, I definitely resonate with that! It's probably why I sometimes have my TV on in another room and weird stuff like that.
Oh yeah, cant describe that small but sweet satisfaction when you do something, even slightly helpful to a random player or they go out of their way to help you
@@gamingtemplar9893 Ok, give me an example of an MMO that FORCES you to play alone. The only thing I can think of is in FFXIV there's some solo only duties during the main story, but that's such a small part of the overall content, it's basically negligible in the grand scheme of things. Outside of that you still have dungeons, raids, PVP, and all the things you can do in groups that aren't directly facilitated by the game, like hosting house parties, glam competitions etc.
This is why divorce and breakups surged during the pandemic. Couples were forced to stay inside with each other and it turns out most people who love each other can only handle so much time before it turns uncomfortable. Distance makes the heart grow fonder and enjoy the time we have with each other, but spending all of our time with each other makes that time seem cheap and the things we dislike about the other person stop being small annoyances and become huge grudges. Turns out we all need our space and invading others all the time builds resentment until it boils over into hate.
@@cattysplat Yup. I love hanging out with my friends and all, but I need it to be on my terms, and have the option to go be by myself when I need to.
hopefully we get a 20 min video talking about why each of us are lonely in full depth
oof
We have each other, even if we are socially awkward.
MMORPGs: Lonely…. TOGETHER
Imo it’s more stressful playing with a bunch of random ppl, I tend to play solo just for that reason. With exceptions like valorant, csgo, LOL etc.
me too,lot less stressful and games shouldnt be stressful
In a weird way - the better my social life was - the less I relied on online “friends” though I still always socialized. As I got older with fewer friends I have relied on more social “support” from MMO’s. Two primary reasons to socialize for me were character progression and acts of kindness. That covered at least 95% of my messages to others.
True! I've gone through those stages. When I moved to a new place and didn't know anyone, it was a good way to have connections and a social life.
Now it's nice to just live amongst others and not have to interact with them going about their business after a long day of socializing IRL
As someone who has played MMO's since EQ1 days, I found this video particularly fascinating, and it made me realize quite a few things about my own gaming experience. I am an introvert as well as have a lot of social anxiety, and I have plenty of forced interaction with people in my day to day life. It's nice being able to escape those pressures in my games, as you mentioned. Great video and I can relate to a lot of your assessments.
EQ represent :D
But there’s definitely some irony in choosing the single most social game genre out there. Even if the vast majority of everything is still feasible to the lone wolfs we live in a sea of single player basic multiplayer games. That’s the thing I think a lot of people who say they are introverted not so much introverted but socially anxious. MMO’s get rid of nearly all the anxiety provoking parts of interaction. Not that I can say anything definitive about you or have any qualifications to do so lmao
Back in my younger days of playing mmorpgs I like playing with other people around, socially interacting with them, grouping up with them. But as i'm getting closer to my 40s, I just want to do my own stuff with the amount of time I have nowadays. I still love seeing other people running around, chatting in chat, grouping up. It makes the world feel alive. I like that I'm part of the world in the mmorpg game I'm playing,
Well put and as someone who's in his 40's I can also relate to that. Doing your own thing whilst still seeing people around you and occasionally group up 4 something.
My old clan had a moto "We go it alone, together" because we were all "solo" players but liked to have a community to talk and help each other when we wanted too. MMOs are amazing for this now. I can play alone in a world that is alive. When you go to the store "alone" your not really alone. You can do the entire trip in quite shopping but if you need to you can ask for help or chat in the checkout line. Being alone in an mmo just means not NEEDING a bu ch of people to do anything. Maybe some things, but not everything.
We go it alone, together.
Either you missed a quote mark or you had a very long moto.
I used to play a lot of League of legends with one of my best friends back in like 2015, and while we would set our laptops right next to each other and talk, once the game started we would often put on headphones and jam out to our own music. It was amazing because if someone got a pentakill or something awesome happened, we could rip off the headphones and go nuts in the same room, or even just toss each other dumb smirks when one of us stole a cannon or buff from the other, but most of the time it was just nice to not be alone while we played.
I even remember he used to come over just so we could sit in the dark and not interact with each other while we played, because it was better than playing together but at different houses.
it's worth to mention interacting with people online became extremely toxic and often very unpleasant. Sometimes it's just better to play solo, in order to avoid the toxicity.
lol
I like to have the option to team up with others. And playing in a world where I actually see others running around makes a world feel more alive. Some nights I like teaming up with the others, chatting and having fun together with strangers. Sometimes I like running dungeons with my friends. Sometimes I like questing solo, enjoying the ambience, seeing others in town without having to interact with them.
"seeing others in town without having to interact with them."
Like real life. It's mostly nice seeing other people out and about without having to interact with them.😉
@@Varangian_af_Scaniae Late reply but this is an excellent point. When you go to a party, you likely won't have meaningful interactions with everyone or even a majority of people there for the whole time. You'd probably briefly greet everyone when you pass them, but most times you will gravitate to a much smaller group of people (or even just another individual) to have intimate conversations/banter with. This doesn't mean you aren't social.
As a LotRO player, I like to take things slow. Explore at my own leisure, find every nook and cranny of such a vast and detailed world and read every quest text carefully and meticulously.
Though I love to engage in conversations from time to time (since LotRO's WC is really mature), sometimes I do prefer to journey alone and relax.
That doesn't mean I won't do instances or raids, but it's not my main concern.
I couldn´t stand teammembers hurrying me, when I took a seat at a nice mountaintop to lite my pipe or play a tune on my flute (Im a bard). Not even my ex-wife :D
@@jensmarkgraf Hehe, I feel you! Sometimes I really want to sit down and enjoy the view. The day before yesterday I sat upon Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien and did literally nothing.
@@mornarmo5833 ^that´s quality time!
especially in 64bit :D
I returned last week, just to find my house sold to someone.
I wonder how the guy, who keeps your interiour, could carry all my stuff ... my gondorian forge !!! :D
Yeah this is the main issue. I'm playing at my own pace, the moment I start playing with someone else now I feel self conscious about playing at my own pace, and also will resent being held up by the other player. It's just an inferior experience that pulls me out of the game
@@vaan_ Thankfully LotRO players are among the most accepting fanbases. Most of them understand, sometimes even accommodate your way of thought.
I'm currently running older raids overleveled, just for the story aspect. There always be people willing to help, just for the sake of it.
In ff14, one of the things I liked to do while waiting between queues was to pick a spot and start people watching in Limsa. I'd be watching people emote, reading the casual conversation happening in the area, and such. It was nice to be an observer to all that chaos.
On the rare occasion I do play an MMO it's so that I can experience the stories, loot, class, and playstyles and I do these things rather slowly. Other players, to me, seem like they are trying to get a speedrun record of the game as they just mashed the skip button on dialogue and rush through dungeons/combat areas. And if you're playing with friends there is a pressure there to stay on the same level or at least be of similar level to your friends so you don't fall behind and become a detriment to their experience.
Also I am someone who doesn't play MMOs for very long. A couple days, maybe a week of frequent play followed by months or years of hiatus. Idk what it is but MMOs just do not capture me like other games can. And I'd rather not pay for a subscription only for me to drop the game shortly there after. I don't mind paying $60 for a game and hardly touching it for a year as when I come back to it, most of everything I had will still be there. In an MMO if you get a subscription and then leave it. When you come back (assuming you didn't reup the subscription) you may not be able to use the character you were using (SWTOR for example does this).
And as it stands I have terrible internet so I hardly play anything online anymore and when I feel like my game suffers due to bad connection, it just sours the entire experience for a good long while.
As an introvert, the idea of being amongst people without feeling like I have to interact or have overwhelming feelings of anxiety... It's exactly what I'm after. I think that's the main appeal for a lot of us.
Edit: I'm introverted with some social anxiety. These 2 things often come together despite some of the replies to my comment... 😐
Introversion has nothing to do with you anxiety. You just have anxiety. Unlike how special online people want to make it seem most people fall in between intro and extroversion and being bad with people does not make you introverted.
@@RK-cj4oc That's a really cool opinion. You should share it with more people.
Introversion and extroversion is absolute pseudoscience, it's made up nonsense.
And every one has anxiety, in some situations more than others usually because it's some situation you are not used to or for some reason developed a sort of "phobia" off, but some people simply are bad at controlling it, for various reasons, the two main ones being how you are raised, being the most important by far, second being genetic which may be a dysfunction in the anxiety regulating part of the brain, this is very very, VERY Rare, almost 99.9% of cases his do to how you were raised(overly protective or overlystrict parents) and it's all you making it up in your head, and doubling down on it, excusing it as being "introverts" and refusing to socialize and get used to well, life,, further aggravating your perceived anxiety.
So majority of cases the fault lies in both the parents and the person who refuses to change, it's not just the fault of one of the parties.
Also people with actual anxiety disorder tend to be schizophrenic in some order almost always, special cases exists, but they are the outlier not the norm.
@@naota3k Facts are not opinions kiddo.
Last time I played world of warcraft I leveled a Hunter by just doing skinning and leatherworking (also cooking and fishing) I ignored doing quests, group content etc... I simply went form zone to zone hunting for the materials I needed. I had so many adventures and encounters that were unique to me and my own journey that I can say I enjoyed it more than any piece of premade content ever provided me.
Thrall's balls, how long did that take you?
@@BubblepunkAD not as long as you think. It was difficult at first because early skinning you end up having to go to zones with mobs stronger than you but eventually, it balances out then it's sort of just like mob grinding but you're doing it for your materials so it has a nice self-satisfying feeling to it. I was also pvp flagged the whole time had a lot close calls met a lot of random people just out there in the world. Finding the best hunting spots for what you need was fun to without using wowhead I could tell you some of the best places for most things. Saw some really cool sights I think many take for granted... there's a whole world out there in that game to explore. I'm trying to do the same on TurtleWoW now with exp restrictions on.
To me the enjoyment of playing an mmo solo is the same as going around places in the real world solo. Its nice to move among other people, to share experiences with them, to talk, if only for a couple sentences, to recognise someone you've never spoken to. I love single player rpgs, I play them more than i do mmo's, but those worlds will never be quite as real as an mmo.
I have to confess that I only started playing Final Fantasy Online because, I was told that there was crafting and fishing . And the Thinking about those mechanics while meeting other people to talk is very relaxing and a unique feeling to MMORPG type of games.
After all I can and I love to roleplay as a adventurer that inspires to be a master cheff in Final Fantasy Online , so I travel the world to become the best Amazonian woman ho had mastered cooking from experience and exploring the world .
Josh explained it perfectly. I want to exist in this fantasy world with other people, but not always interact with them. Knowing I'm in a world full of people has a calming effect when there is no requirement to interact if I'm not feeling like it. I play FFXIV and sometimes I love doing things with a group, other times I just want to play without any expectations from others. Having the option to do either is wonderful.
Same that's why I enjoy what FF14, GW2, and ESO have done. You can team up if you want to. But you don't have to sll the time to finish the game.
They also make each new expense a journey and meaningfully not just the end game.
I just enjoy being alone in my games. But i also love when the worlds feel alive. I can simply be there and do my things. Run arround and bump into someone, have a chat or simply just pass by. Just being on my own while not feeling alone is just makes me feel cozy.
Lord of the rings online has a music system that let's you program songs for a character to play on a variety of instruments. You'll see groups of 2 to 30 players playing songs in unison regularly in Bree.
1. my friends will play any mmo i convince them to download for like half a day and then never touch it again, 2. the intriguing thing about mmos is that you are as somewhat unique character, in a world that actually exists without you loading up the game. when i play a regular rpg there might be a cool roleplay effect simply in how the world works and how you chose to interact with it, in an mmorpg your character itself and what it represents or stands for are an important part of the roleplay. idk if i explained that well.
Josh, none of my friends play MMO's and i have not been able to overcome my social anxiety and fear of failure to make friends in the MMO. That is why i play solo.
Sounds like you got bigger problems in life
@@isaacgarcia2979 Yeah, he said it himself. His social anxiety. Give the guy some slack
@@isaacgarcia2979 Like you don't? That smug attitude deserves a punch to the face.
Me too :D feels like I don't have anything to say to them :D but i like to play MMOs :D
Same
Real life is just like an MMO; people don't necessarily interact with others constantly and do every single thing as a group. I prefer soloing. That's just the way I am in real life as well, but do have enjoyble interaction with others from time to time (also applies to my real life). And I don't mind helping others if they ask for it. Sometimes, you even bump into a polite individual. Such an encounter can keep me going for a long time.
Being alone alongside other players feels more immersive, everyone has a goal, and we're all working together (or against each other) separately. In the moments where we come together for some greater goal, it's made all the more special knowing the fact that it's temporary and my temporary allies will go their own way when the task is complete.
Finally watching this after having finally caved and trying the free trial of ffxiv
Part of the reason I mostly solo is ue to severe social anxiety problems, in all honesty, even in my main mmo I only ever do raids with groups of people that I've known for a while, and avoid pubs like the plague
At the same time I do *want* to be able to play with other people, I just... have a crippling fear of being the deadweight who makes an unsalvagable mistake and gets all the ire of people... but at the same time it's still nice being in a populated game like that. Just the other day, when I was leveling some of my crafting jobs in siv, a random player walked up to me and started silently cheering me on through emotes. I finished my crafting session, gave a polite little bow, and moved on with my day. No words were exchanged but it was still a good feeling
As a lot of other people have said I really enjoy the feeling of just being around other people without feeling forced to interact with them especially because I have really bad anxiety. I usually play MMOs by myself but I don’t get that feeling of loneliness that I get from solo games
Players are the better NPCs, you just need to disable name tags, heh.
Imagine my shock when I realized my anxiety did indeed translate to video games 😭good thing a lot of online games have guild system or I would probably never interact...
Yeah this is me. I like the "feeling" that there are "real" people around opposed to npc's. On that flip side I play everything as solo. Typically with all chat turned off etc etc and never bother with any social aspects of the game. At all. If I wanted to deal with real people I would go out and do something with real people. I don't. So I play games. BUT I don't want to be in games devoid of any human "feel" to them....twisted.
@@1969bones69 That's fine but what happens when everybody plays MMORPG's that way? It may as well be Super Mario with a hundred thousand nameless Luigi's.
@@RovalisGTO When that actually happens, we'll let you know. Until then, this argument is nonsense.
Finally, an MMOer who understands the reasoning behind wanting to play solo (mostly) in an MMO! Thank you Josh, you earned a like and subscribe from me :)
I primarily prefer to play MMOs solo for many reasons:
- I very often want to unwind after work, and games are my "alone time". And being an introvert, active socializing wears me out after a while - plus I do have some social anxiety.
- I also hate using voice chat with people I don't know. I even feel uncomfortable talking on the phone... I'd much rather the person was in front of me.
- I enjoy existing in worlds I love alongside like minded people (e.g. I love the pre-Cata Warcraft universe). That doesn't necessarily mean I want to actively interact with them all the time.
- Due to work, gf, friends, chores, other hobbies etc I don't have enough consistent time to play, which means that doing group content could mean that I have to bail on people, which I don't want.
- I prefer playing multiplayer with RL friends and ideally in the same space (I miss LAN parties!)... And none of my RL friends play MMOs.
- Many times, you run into real jackasses in multiplayer games. And I don't have the patience to deal with idiots anymore.
That been said, I would not expect any MMO to bend over to my own preference. I would not expect to be able to do everything on my own. Group-only content should exist and be sufficiently rewarding. However, solo play should also have meaningful content and progression past max level, even if it were less rewarding than group play. GW2 - your sponsor - is superb that way. Unlike WoW, where as a solo player you hit a wall at max level, GW2 has so much. Story content, exploration, mastery levels, events... The game flows naturally into max level content for us solo players as much as it does for more group oriented people.
I think GW2, ESO and FF14 broke the you have to play with other people when they added these massive stories in them and making the player the center and hero.
@@evacody1249 yes but eso and GW2 are very small compared to wow.
And FFXIV is a huge franchise with huge playerbase way before the MMORPG itself ( simialr to wow having warcraft).
I personally prefer Classic's wow ideology.
I don't like all these modern mmos making you the hero, the chosen one, bla bla bla.
I prefer when i play in WoW and i am just an orc.
I talk to thrall and he says "Speak orc".
It gives you that feeling that you're just too small in a vast world.
Being the chosen one, the best, the absolute god.. is just no fun and appealing to me.
@@akhsdenlew1861 Yeah, GW2 is my favourite MMO but I'd rather they removed all story instances. I basically only do ones that are necessary to unlock areas or features.
I wonder if the "alone with others" crowd would enjoy an RPG with bots pretending to be other players just as much. I personally don't get the appeal.
@@sisterimmaculata1680 Bots cant replicate the feeling you get from a 50 man Hero Point train.
I play GW2 mostly alone, but in the nature of GW2 and how the game works im usually doing something with someone somehow. Even if we never need to exchange words. It can be as simple as participating in a random event with someone.
Im playing alone, but im not really alone. Atleast in GW2.
@@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother Looks like my disagreement stemmed from semantics. I wouldn't have considered the GW2 experience you describe as solo. Doing events around the map with other people to me isn't solo as you do communicate through words or actions even if not in the same party.
Some games feel more like several single player rpgs being played on a shared screen but independantly from each other.
Thank you for your analysis and open mind. This is refreshing.
Loved your video and I think you really nailed the feeling of it. Both my wife and I are avid mmorpg players who love to primarily play alone, but have the ability to team up with others when we want to. In fact, we met while playing Star Wars: The Old Republic (in separate countries in fact), when we ended up teamed for a 4 man heroic in Section X. Nine years later we both still play many games like SWTOR and GW2 ... We have characters that adventure through the new stories together, but still we also game alone when we want to.
"You can now work together - alone" This basically sums up my gw2 experience and i love it.
Josh, as much as I enjoyed the video there's one thing I really need to stress: When alternating between mounts in GW2, you can set them to individual keybinds. Meaning you can save yourself a lot of time by not clicking the mounts individually. I'm trying to save you the embarrassment I felt after being told this after several months of playing it. I still haven't recovered from it.
Well now I know that I am not doing it out of stubbornness
@@JoshStrifeHayes💀💀💀
Me who's watched that video of Josh saying he won't do it when he keeps getting told to
@@JoshStrifeHayes Just like you didnt open the boxes and the mails, you're a mean one mr hayes.
@@JoshStrifeHayes Wait until you hear about the mount wheel radial add on. I've never gone back.
Great video! Meridian 59 was my first MMO and Ulitma Online being the second. I think I enjoy MMO’s like SWTOR and ESO the best because they have great solo story lines but also make it really easy to join group events. When I have the choice to join group events, like the spontaneous group battles in ESO or Guildwars 2, I’m even more likely to join in rather than being forced to be part of a group to finish a huge part of the game like Dungeons and Raids in Destiny 2 where you’re wandering around shouting “LFG” until you get lucky and someone takes pity on you. Although I will say that finding an agreeable Discord channel with likeminded members is a fantastic way of finding a group for that dungeon without the need to “join” an active guild.
i just discover this channel today and i'm loving it! since i really like wasting my time on MMO but it looks like you haven't reviewed the OG Ragnarok Online
It's pretty impressive how Josh reads off his script while looking me dead in the eyes. The acting classes really be paying off
Periphs bro, periphs
I’m just introverted both irl and online honestly.
Same, and I tend to not want to adhere to what other people are doing and just go at it at my own pace. If I join a bigger community I just feel forced to log on and do X or Y and that removes the joy for me.
#relatable
@@Makrillo me too! feels very overwhelming.
Thank you! That was the best breakdown and analysis on why some of us play solo in mmos. Socializing is encouraged, but not mandatory. I like grinding quests or mining whilst seeing UA-cam videos like this one. Being on groups, yes, I do that from time to time, but just when I feel like it. We choose how to entertain ourselves, great video Josh.
Ever since 2008 when I was a child(Ahhh, the memories of AQWorlds) I've always logged in solo, day after day. BUT I have always ADORED the fact that I can just walk into any hub, ask for help, and consequently make a friend for life!
That is the joy of MMO's for me
I love playing alone in MMORPG's. I gather materials, forge/make item and sell them. It's not just the in game currency that do it for. If my item or material helps someone else enjoy the game or progress further then I feel like I contributed to the community and did something meaningful.
Being a healer in a solo environment was fascinating.
That's called mana economy, you just need one individual to stay alive
@@megalowie1324 isn't that masochistic? You need to be hurt in order to feel useful.
Most of my characters are healers, of themselves. Those that aren't can mitigate damage such they don't need heals. Soloists must be self-sufficient after all.
I have always enjoyed solo play, because for the longest time my friends never really played the same MMO's as I did or MMO's at all. But beyond that I also enjoyed how, in certain games, I could take on challenges above and beyond what a single person was usually meant to take on. ESO was a good example of this. I could do many solo world bosses, group events, even certain dungeons. It allowed me to sort of play the game as a larger challenge than I might have otherwise, and I found it to be a lot of fun to see if I could solo most of the content in the game.
It lead to situations, for example, where I could take on final bosses of dungeons, as a DPS class, when the rest of my party died, with people wondering how the hell I was doing it. It only really worked in games like GW2, ESO, sometimes World of Warcraft (But not really as much), etc, where I could more or less rely on myself. It's relaxing.
I think I agreed with this at the time but several months down the road, I feel a bit torn. To preface this, this is my own experience. It revolves around WoW retail, FF14 and GW2 and if you are having a better time, fantastic! At first, I was more agreement with the more solo content side because I figured I would still have those options for random socialization(that random happenstance encounter) but, I now feel like that required a middle ground that is vanishing.
I feel like I actually thrived in the middle ground where I could solo but there was a decent amount of group interruption that meant I couldn't really go full recluse(think like vanilla WoW, where there was one or two quests in each zone that usually needed another person and you could dungeon run a few times every few levels) I never felt comfortable with a guild level commitment, though I did it once or twice but overall, I liked the middle ground. Now I feel like the nuance is gone. You are either terminally solo and people are window dressing for your experience or you are terminally social and have discord and are on all the time, committed to static groups, etc etc. If I play FF14 and do roulette now, its like 4 solo players attempt to solo the dungeon side by side, saying nothing(the buddy system AI says more) and only speak when something doesnt work. Guild Wars 2? Tons of people on map for a scenario all wordlessly accomplishing something before vanishing. Don't know what to do? Well sure as hell dont bother asking anyone, that's what wiki is for. And that divide rolls right up into dev decisions and community fracturing as it makes up at least a portion of the constant pro v. casual culture war in GW2 and ESO( some might argue that this isnt relevant as its restricted to youtube, twitch, and forums but, if its where the devs are drawing feedback then I think it affects the game).
To be clear, I am not saying that these things did not happen previously but now it feels like they are the standard of interaction and anything else is exceedingly rare. The other thing I've also found is that my own social anxiety has skyrocketed because realistically, no player has a use for my existence outside of either window dressing or a transactional element to get them out of forced group content faster if Im good or a roadblock to their fun if Im bad so, I can just expect more extreme responses(extreme silence or extreme irritation). It does not feel good.
I agree with the middle ground part. I like doing my own thing sometimes, but I also like being social when I want to. The problem is that it's almost impossible to just naturally be social in MMOs anymore. You to join a guild or a discord to get any meaningful interaction with people. It just sucks that I can't randomly group up with someone that's a similar level and be social that way anymore.
For this problem, i found solution. Cheap but cool fix. Went for private server for WoW. (Warmane to he exact) when this middle ground existed in amazing time . Wow Wrath if the Lich King era.. I'm really enjoying so far. İ this problem made me drop many modern mmorgs. gw2, ESO, wow , Kotor...
Excellent video. And I'm still flabbergasted (what a great opportunity to use that word) that so many MMO content creators find the idea of wanting to play alone in a shared world with other players such a foreign concept. It's been the norm for over two decades, about time they woke up and smelled the tea.
Well, we may also be looking at the parts of their organization that only see the game metrics: how many people are logged in, for how long, where, and doing what. The assumption that teaming "instances" is going to drive game use, which justifies payroll, etc. is part of this business.
You can also see devs justifying headcount, etc. by making lots of forced team things (raids, zone-wide events, etc.) because once you do some solo thing it can be done and never really replicated again (ex. the writers for each of SWTOR's class storylines don't really need to go back and do re-writes of them), vs. having 47 different mass raids/operations where the same underlying game mechanics can be used but someone needs to design a new boss/trash mobs, color them puce this time instead of periwinkle, tweak the mechanics of the fight slightly, etc. and then fart it out onto the sever as part of a new game update or in-game "event".
@@Corbomite_Meatballs oh yeah that one makes alot of sense, Devs and other companies always like seeing huge numbers even if in reality as this video explains those numbers don't really mean much.
Yeah, and if enough "solo players" join an MMO, it ruins it for people who played it for the multiplayer aspect. Which ends up ruining the game. And that sucks.
@@chaoschris8194 If the players can destroy a game simply by keeping to themselves, then thats not a very well designed game.
They aren't hacking, not exploiting, not camping and not harassing. They are just playing the game their way as they are allowed to do.
@@kempolar9768 If more solo players join a multiplayer game, say years after it comes out, and start commenting and providing feedback that they want more solo play, devs will focus on more solo content and put multiplayer content by the wayside. Seen it happen a bunch of times. It's also much easier for devs to impliment and balance, so of course they'd take the easier way.
I consider myself a mostly solo player, but I love group content, from dungeons to world bosses. I enjoy this sense of 'stars crossing in space.' Meet some strangers, have some fun, tell a couple jokes, call GGs and everyone goes on about their way. It's one of the core elements I enjoy in MMOs, honestly.
That's what made me fall in love with WoW back during wrath. Met some genuinely great people that way and I miss the community back then for it.
I love your videos, they're so good
I did a reaction to this 1 and found myself going down memory lane a fair bit
really amazing, good stuff, thank you
I recall the incredible MMO Asherons call, your toon came to the point where the player finds out how great joining a guild was.
Dungeons eventually requires group or groups.
Even with this, one could still solo the explore.
If time is limited, meeting the wrong sorts in an online world can be devastating towards accomplishing anything. A good group/guild of friends is great, but rare. Anonymity often makes others brazen, selfish and immature. I'll never forget my first EQ groups. Nothing but ninja looting in Highpass and incredibly selfish behavior. Admittedly those were often a product of a flawed looting system, but it was a rough way to invest in limited playtime. It was often just easier and more rewarding to solo. As a healer, it was me helping others and very few ever reciprocating in kind. It got old fast. But again, my playtime was always limited as I worked full-time. It was a little better in EQ2 and WOW with better looting systems, but early EQ was the wild west. In terms of WOW, I genuinely preferred to solo and set my own schedule. I only grouped for large guild events. Edit: It's just crazy to me that I played EQ nearly 25 years ago.
Yes same experience for me. EQ was so bad for so many things, mana regen, looting, broken quests, broken boat travel, corpse runs….
It left such a bas taste in my mouth i only played with RL friends in WoW.
Early EQ2 was mob ninja territory. Wait for the mob to get to 2% health and then get the last shot in. Boom, loot at minimal risk
I don’t like interacting with strangers, but I love observing them. Seeing players running around doing funny things makes my day more ways than one.
I play MMOs solo because I work nights and don't have a consistent night off to schedule playing with anyone. I work 6 nights a week, and the night I have off is different every week. So, I play alone, and it's not bad, I enjoy the games, they have a story I can still delve into. Mainly I play WoW, and it's pretty fun solo.
I do join guilds, but I always let them know if they do a guild cleanse I'll probably be on that list because of my schedule, but I found a guild that hasn't kicked me yet, they understand and even though I cant schedule raids or dungeons with them, they'll still allow me to join conversations when I'm on. Chill community.
i am personally a solo mmo player. i have pretty bad social anxiety, which is especially related to fear of humiliating myself in front of others. when i play group content, i constantly have this stress that i do something wrong and make myself look stupid, or fail and ruin the fun for everyone. so doing everything in a game with other people would stress me out, and take all the fun out of the game...
but i still like that i have the option to play together with people i am already close friends when i feel like it. i enjoy participating in large public group events where i can join with no strings attached, and where i am so insignificant that my potential mistakes wont matter. i like to help a random struggling player, and be on my way right afterwards with no words exchanged. also i get certain comfort of just... having other human beings around in the game, even if i do not wish to interact with them. basically... just because i prefer play the game alone most of the time does not mean that i do not like the mmo aspect of the game.
As someone else said "being alone among others" is one of the main feelings I strive for when I play this, but another aspect I love is that I sometimes feel a need to interact with another player. Maybe there's a random guy sitting next to me for a long time or maybe I or another dude did something goofy and we both noticed and we have a small conversation about it - I love it. It makes the world so alive for me and it feels like I can toggle on/off interactions with other players whenever I want, where in single player games I don't get such choice.
I play the games very chaotically and I never could "make an appointment for gaming" with someone. I like to hop on my games when I want to and when I can and this rarely aligns with most of my friends, if they even play the game I do in the first place, so all these small interactions fill the "social hole" for me really nicely and it makes all the difference for me between offline and online RPG.
I think that SWTOR really did the questing part in the earlier expansions very well. It was mostly designed as solo content, but it was easy to include your friends and they could then experience your story quest. Loved it.
But they couldn't experience your story quest. Every single time my class had a story event my friend couldn't join me in it.
@@bevvvy1374 That's weird. I played the expansions before the eternal empire with 2 friends and we had no problem joining eachothers quests
Well said. Amazing collection of stuff behind you. Is there a video showing of all the stuff?
This video felt like a documentary about how I play every MMO. I usually just enjoy doing my own thing, around other people. It’s like going out to a cafe for a few hours to read. I’m still doing something solo with other people nearby
I play MMOs solo probably 90% of the time. I think it’s a nostalgia or comfort thing for me. I like the formula of gameplay that MMOs usually offer (grindy, repetitive, etc) but I also like seeing everyone running around doing their own thing. It makes the universe building that they put into these worlds feel more authentic because it feels lived in, regardless of whether I’m engaging these people or not.
I love that GW2 gives you that choice. There's plenty of group content for you to enjoy with your guild or friends and gives you a plethora of content that you can experience by yourself alone
I loved playing my Gnome Necro in EverQuest. Casting my self-invisible spell to get into the dwarf home city (necro's start out as hated by them). Then handing in orc shoulder pads to up my rep all in one go. After pulling that off I was hooked!
I love MMOs. They're my preferred style of game to play whether it be GW2, FFXIV, WoW, New World, Destiny 2 or so many others.
That said while I love living worlds with tons of players I could interact with, I have too much social anxiety to even talk to people in a video game.
Still I really enjoy them and I play with my friends whenever I can.
You explain everything so well. Like you said "you can now work together - alone". I love to kill an event or areal boss, when more and more players arrive to kill it together, and support each other and after it dies our paths separate again. You´re a big team in situations when it´s necessary.
I´m a solo player too and I just started Guild Wars 2 for the first time (shame on me) - so thank you very much for the code! Much appreciated.
As someone who plays mostly solo in mmos, i do it because: 1. i like to go at my pace (maybe i want to farm, maybe i want to quest , maybe i want to explore), 2. i like to explore and discover the world, 3. it helps me discover the class limits and learn the class better by handing different situations alone without backup and i can take different approaches depending on the enemies, location, class and skills i have in each situations.
Being alone in a world where if you want to socialize with likeminded people, they're right there to interact with is so wonderful... It's nice to not feel like there's no other option but to group up and socialize all the time because there is a huge pool of players who are introverted and it's so helpful to have the choice but not strongarmed into it.
There are several reasons many players play solo.
1. Time. When the game is designed with quest chains, it's easy to pass up or fall behind in the quest chain making it a challenge to group.
2. Dialogue skippers, dialogue watchers. Some players want to listen to quest dialogue and other players just want to get to the quest and skip dialogues. This makes the party dynamic incomparable. A time issue again.
3. Pvp is imbalanced. Some players want to get through content as quick as possible because delaying puts you behind grinders and you can easily be outmatched if you delay progression.
4. Loot share is on drop and not based on group or party. Imagine running a quest or dungeon where loot drops are available to anyone present and the player who is the quickest at snatching up loot gets the loot. Players hate this because they run into greedy loot goblins..
5. Lacking party skills or equipment. When some players attempt to sneak into a party when they barely have the equipment to qualify to help the party so they are being "carried" through the content offering no actual assistance to the party.
6. The game doesn't make it easy to find other players who match your current state. Long wait times for que.
7. The game lacks incentive to party. Where there is little to no benefit to run in groups. Such as party scaling or difficulty rating goes up exponentially making the content much more difficult than just doing it solo.
8. A huge majority of players are anti-social..
I remember reading long ago that the "Massive" in MMORPG refers to the persistent world, i.e. the idea that the game world is still simulating even if there are no players connected to it, as opposed to other multiplayer games in which the world/area/level will only exist on the server as long as the session/match is going on, meaning that that instance of the world will effectively cease to exist once the last player has disconnected from it. I have no idea where I read this or who wrote it though, but I like that definition because it's pretty clear-cut and useful.
This is the answer. The "Massive" refers to the gameworld, not the head-count.
You're describing persistent online worlds, which of course _do_ overlap a lot with MMO games. The point of massively multiplayer games was that there are no _limits_ on how many people can play at the same time - whether the actual number was 50 or 5000. Of course, almost no modern MMO games actually work that way - EVE being one of the few exceptions. The standard today is servers with limited populations (and no shared economy/accessible server transfers), instancing everywhere and no way to actually change the world. I mean, one of the implied things in that "persistent online world" thing was that it's a _dynamic_ world. Otherwise the "persistence" promise sounds kind of hollow, doesn't it? What's the point if all you get is a character sheet that doesn't really exist when your character isn't playing?
WoW kind of poisoned the MMO space by making a simpler, more clear and polished game by abandoning almost every single thing that made MMO design and maintenance hard. It wouldn't be a bad thing if it was one style of MMOs among many, but it displaced almost everything else. That said, it certainly is easier to make a proper persistent world on a smaller scale - not just from a technical standpoint, but as a community. It's barely possible to reasonably moderate populations around a hundred or two (like old school MUDs). Minecraft works pretty well for that, and as amazing as it would be as an MMO in some ways, the possibility of having your own world or a community server, and being able to mod it is much better - and what's very relevant in these days, severely limits the opportunities for unfair monetization (just compare the Bedrock version with Java version). And heck, people still found a way to make it work in a pretty large scale (Hypixel and co.). That's what openness gives you. MMOs tend to be painfully closed. I'm not a big fan of GNU, but it really should be your right to modify whatever software runs on your own computer.
I remember watching a talk from the Game developers conference about this very subject, was interesting to hear a developer talk about it. If anyone's interested, the video's called 'The Loner: Why some people play mmos alone'
Personally I tend to play MMOs alone because I can only play at certain times, and usually what happens is my free time doesn't overlap with any of my friends. And then I'm not too keen on making friends within the game because of the time constraints again, I don't wanna leave someone hanging for days on end because I only play at weird times. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for the game dev video name.
I enjoy mainly solo play(mainly since I out pace all my friends) but I like helping anyone I come across. Also the awesome Minion system in GuildWars 1 was add much later but it was great for anyone not wanting to wait for a group.
I just found this video very well done. As someone who has been playing for as long as these games existed. I remember when Meridian 59 came out my First MMO was Ultima Online which came out before EQ I have always played solo. Thr last few years I have stopped calling them MMORPGs and just call them Online RPGs. As that is the way I see them all.
Interesting... I know for me the older I became the least interested I am in multi-player, but I still enjoy the world's created and I like to create my own character. I don't consider myself a role player, but I guess i still can be considered this as well because I prefer to be immersed in the worlds I like, also I don't want pressure to group or complication to group. Great video Josh 👍
Not even just in games but also in real life haha.
100% lol
seeing the list of josh's patrons grow over time is wild man
Makes me happy for him
It won't be long before we will have to set our browsers at 300x zoom to read them at all.
I've asked myself this question many times. Thanks for making a thoughtful video like this one. It really shows that you're passionate about RPGs :)
I used to be REALLY into Ragnarok Online, a game I'll cherish for the rest of my life. Played on official Brazilian server during my childhood and early teens, then several private servers on and off. Simply put, it's a masterpiece despite the outdated graphics. However, what kills most servers eventually is that they insist in allowing multiclient and don't implement features that make party play rewarding/more beneficial. So you basically have 100-200 players (average per server) with 5+ clients opened up to heal and buff their main character. What's fun about that? The foul smelling cherry on top of this sh*t cake is Renewal classes/content. Pretty much you can buff and overgear your character to the point of soloing any boss/dungeon effortlessly (provided you spend enough money in the Cash Shop)
Fortunately there are some private classic RO servers that prohibit multiclienting and encourage partying by significantly increasing EXP when you're in a party, they also have no Cash Shop and donations only get you cosmetic hats/skins. It's definitely a step in the right direction. If Gravity had a good marketing team and didn't make so many stupid decisions in the past years, Ragnarok would still be relevant to this day. Back in the early 2000s it took the world by storm and I vividly remember LAN cafés packed with kids like myself playing it. Good times 😢
in all honesty, i've always played solo because it's hard to get my real life friends to play mmos and most people in life suck. It's a sad but real point to make, there are cheaters, harassers, racists, meta-nerds, loot ninjas etc. in almost every mmo and they make life hell. It seems to be a societal issue
Thank you for taking the time to talk about this Josh. As someone who almost always plays online games exclusively solo (no guild, no team, just me, a pet, and NPCS if needed) it's really cool to see people talk about this topic. And for the most part you are completely spot on. I struggle to play single player games due to personal anxieties, the fact that I'm not the only person also spending time in a game really helps a lot to curb this issue. It helps a ton simply to know other people are also investing time into the game I'm playing, even if 99% of my time in the game is just wandering around on my own.
Great video!
I very much enjoyed grouping as the online gaming genre evolved. I had a static group that regularly got together. As for pressure underplay, I was the healer. Yeah, that pressure causes some PTSD, these days. Not to mention, it was not good for making gold due to consumable requirements. Time went by, we disbanded, and I kept gaming by myself for lack of ability to get a like-minded group of individuals together at the same time. There were lots of trolls coming into games that were socially,...bad. It also became cumbersome to keep characters to play at different levels so you could quest with friends going faster or slower than you. Also, there was always the idea that you couldn't cheat with online games, and, what you pulled or found, randomly, could always brighten your day in front of the player base. Pay to win, or, pay for coolnesses, ruined that, too.
I've been enjoying the online games solo, with henchmen where I can. I like the idea of being pulled into instances with other live players for brief encounters without commitment.
Just some random thoughts you stirred. Thanks for the video.
In writing this, I think I stumbled across the answer: Why do people play MMO's solo?
I think one of the core issues is that players do not play at the same rates as their online friends, and they haven't come up with a good way to group multiple levels of players in game(i.e. How does my lowbie quest with my uber and newbie friends and we still are all significant and get level worthy loot?)
I think, once we break into, I can hear your conversation at the tavern with your friends, or, hear you asking the NPC for the next quest, we might say, hey, need help? can I join you? again.
Played WoW for 16 years, from launch. I played a majority of that game Solo, or with my wife. Occasionally grouping up to complete dungeon quests or raid with my guild. I still play that way today. I like to play with the background of other people also trying to live their fictional life in-game along side me. I also dislike voice chat. I'd rather type.
On a side note: I really hated when guilds took over MMO's and started making schedules for raiding. The game that I once loved, started to feel like a job. Took the fun out of it for me.
There kinda needed. Getting 10 people online at the same time is harder then you would think. But I see what you mean for sure. Schedules where made because everyone who had free time eventually grew up and ended up either working or making babies
Even in the early EverQuest days I was always more of a solo player. I'd team up in games for dungeons and raids from time to time, but mostly I just wanted to explore the world, read the lore, dress up my character, and chat. I think one of the major draws to MMORPGs isn't just that other people are playing, but how much character customization they often offer compared to a lot of non MMO-games.
Everquest DID require you to play with other people IF you wanted the most benefits, even as a Necromancer. Trust me, you were going to die ALOT as a Necromancer back in 1999 and the early 2000s, and you would be asking for Rezzes and all kinds of help ALOT for little things, from tradeskills to travelling to leveling, nevermind the dungeon crawls and raids. 99% of the Necromancers were not elite players who could flawlessly play for hours without dying, or box multiple characters to cover the shortcomings of a Necromancer...even the best had to endure corpse runs, and you didn't get the summon corpse skill until MUCH later in your levels. They'd have to party with other people just to get any real XP and loot. Everybody, including Necromancers wanted Clerics on call for Rezzes for example (Necro Rez be damned. Necros only got a weaker XP-recovery Rez at 55+ levels and it required a VERY expensive reagent which was distilled from their OWN XP gauge. Yeah, not many Necros were willing to use their own Rezzes except in very desperate situations). A Necromancer leveling at Seafury Island was prone to being skunked by the Trains and random pathers or special mobs that couldn't be soloed. A Necromancer with a healing partner were a force to be reckoned with and could down 3-4 times as many mobs....you were gimping the class' potential by playing alone, and you were REALLY opening yourself up to losing XP and hours of progress by playing alone, when teaming up could decrease that catastrophic risk of death exponentially (Getting Back to Seafury island after a death and having to use the boat was a PAIN). Yes, you can play solo as a Necromancer in Everquest "more than other classes". That STILL didn't mean that playing solo was efficient or necessarily beneficial UNLESS you were a truly elite player with all your skills optimized (again, a MINISCULE proportion of the player base could play THAT proficiently. You're talking about people who could keep their concentration up for hours while boxing multiple characters).
I think you touched on the most important aspect for me. Downtime. Downtime became a dirty word and the games changed. In EQ (at least at the start) there was downtime everywhere, even between mobs when in a grind group you had to take mana breaks and they were measured in minutes not seconds. As a consequence I came to know the people I played with regularly, actually know them because we spent so much time in idle chat. Maybe once every few days I'd spend a few hours in EC tunnel, reading the spam, bargain hunting or trying to track down something that had eluded me in the normal course of play. You'd come to recognise names there. The 'tunnel rats' who didn't seem to do anything else and later on the 'guild mules' who often carried items you might not be able to get any other way. But even there you got to know their personalities. Who might do a deal, who might be gouging people with more money than sense. Despite not progressing your character these things add up to create a world that feels populated by other people.
Nice this makes guild wars 1 look interesting.
One aspect of the solo play is the grind. If you have to have the latest equipment for the next content and you only can get it in a raid with many people, thats what I don't like. I like having the choice if I want to do things together or not. And I want to choose who I play with.
I work midnights and as such my playtime online is either Early Mornings after work or on my days off extremely late to extremely early. This means I am very rarely online during prime time when most other players would are. When I played Everquest, a game that requires lots of playtime in order to be endgame ready, I had to play a solo class or I would have never been catch up and then keep up with my Guild. I am probably more the exception than the rule but there are times when being a more solo player is necessary.
There's a lot of factors that makes a person want to play solo in a MMO anxiety,time, experience ect. Personally I get pretty anxious whenever I'm running with randoms or when someone sends me a whisper for whatever reason so I try to go solo if I can help it whenever I start a new MMO I always look up which class/build is good for solo
I play solo for the most part ( I do join event trains and groups sometimes) I am mostly an introvert, but I play MMORPGs because I love feeling like being in a living, active world. I like having the choice to decide weather I want to be with a group or not. And even if I am playing solo, I still interact with people, help each-other out and then go on our way. I participate in conversations, but the pressure of commitment isn't there.
Forced grouping can also negatively effect people's lifestyles. For example, I have a job in another city. I transit 45 minutes to and from, and sometimes I spend up to 10 hrs in that city. By the time I get home, I'm really tired and I do miss a lot of guild events because of this. My lifestyle simply does not allow me to make a long term commitment to a highly social play-style.
If you make a game that actively forces you with people all the time, you are going to lose players. Not even social players are going to want to be in groups all the time, some people have bad days, or just plain don't want to at that particular time.
This guy is so calming to listen to for some reason.I really enjoy his accent and everything else about the way he talks,also he's like the personification of the mmo player's voice
I just got too used to doing things by myself and it's more relaxing to me to do it that way. I've played plenty of failed mmos and was on numerous dying servers. I do like to have people around me doing other things because it does feel like a living world but I won't go out of my way to interact with all of them. I usually just play together with my guild/fc/clan or whatever and never really leave unless it gets disbanded. I mostly play for the lore and the fun you get when you shut off your brain and grind mentality.
I do go through the occasional dungeon or raid but only when I feel like it. if I'm forced to do it, it just feels uncomfortable to me because I really don't want to mess up. When I think back on it I never used to be that way until I played LoL and other fps games for the years in between MMOS. That toxic feeling you get probably killed my enjoyment of playing with other people. I play games to relax and have fun not to be the elite #1 rank player in a video game.
Simply existing near people is something I think I unconsciously enjoyed because there's no pressure to it. There is a comfort in not being alone, but not having to entertain someone else. I can enjoy other folks' conversations as long as they're in a channel I can access, and if I so choose I can hop in - it just depends on my mood and desires at the time. This is even true with my friends where I can join the activities, but they'll respect if I'm busy with a solo project too. It is interesting to watch as games make things more accessible for solo players such as FF14 adding trusts for dungeons though trials/raids still require other people. I like it though because it's a little more comforting for those who can be more anxious and probably would've been something I'd have taken advantage of back in the day. I also always liked gw2's model that you could join someone's story so if a person wanted the comfort of a friend or few then you could all go through it simultaneously (as well as accepting credit if you were on the same step).
What a call out on the marketing team lol But fair as their promotion hasn't felt as good as it could be at times.
It's like real life itself. You choose when to do something with others. Most of the time you're doing things all by yourself, even if surrounded by others.
Asperger's Poster Child here. Being Social is exhausting. I love logging into ESO and wandering around, gathering, and then selling mats to others.
I always mained necro in EQ, and always had the most fun with just soloing most content, but having the option to group up. I had equally good memories of doing group grind in Highpass Hold's basement *and* soloing hill giants in Rathe.