The big thing, in my mind, is how it works within a band mix. The full 4x12 sounds pleasing by itself, but most of the time the lows are just cluttering the sound. The single 12” seems to have its focus on the “business-frequencies”.
Another fantastic video. It made me think back to when I was younger and doing my studio engineer apprenticeship. ..the studio I was working in were recording this hard rock band...the guitar players came in with a full Marshall 4x12 stack along with an old mid 70's Marshall head...I think it was a Super Lead. ..anyways. .the engineer...told him to just leave the 4x12 cabinet aside and plugged him into a single 1x12 open back cabinet. The guitar tone was incredible...I was totally surprised by the results...the engineer looked at me and said "if you have a good guitar and a good amp head. ..a single 12 speaker is more then enough to get a great sound...and in fact many sounds if you move the mic in different positions. " I really loved those days...i learned so much. That's why I really enjoy this channel. I've learned so much again. . Thank you.
Hi Johan - this is HooVi - inventor of the Deeflexx Systems. I really like your experiments and tests like the AMP1 of my friend Thomas Blug - they are GREAT! You showed in a perfect way how I surprise testers, when they want to use Deeflexx with 4x12 cabs. Everybody is surprised about the still “big” sound, if you disconnect 2 (upper) speakers - that’s what I am doing. The upper speakers then work like a passive membrane in hifi speakers of older days. Many users of our Deeflexx just disconnect the upper speakers and use 2 Systems to spread the sound evenly without a beaming zone. Some of them dismount the upper speakers and close the holes. So you still have the low resonance of an “oversized” 2x12. The guitarist of a Deep Purple coverband is using such 2X “4”x12s stacked side to side. So only 4 speakers near the floor + the bass-coupling-effect give enough power and low-end to play on big festival stages. The Systems deflect the mid and high range sound like a sphere - no external monitoring or sound check is needed. And the weight is much lower - you must see the faces of the stagehands, when the carry around these cabs for the first time - hahaha! 😊 This was a perfect presentation of an effect that hardly no one believes - WELL DONE my friend! You could show in a next test, how the sound of a 4x12 is changing, when you switch between upper and lower speakers. The upper row sound like tweeters compared to the lower row because of the missing bass coupling effect - a surprising effect! Best regards from Tyrol - HooVi 👍😀
What would we do without you, Johan ;-) You always ask the right questions and do the hard work. Thanks for that! I tend to prefer the 4x12 on its own for the full, 3D sound. The 1x12 sounds a little boxier, but also more open and defined, so it'd fit better in a mix IMO.
Johan, you might take an interest in the 1961a/b cabs. These were regular 1960’s with a 2x12 baffle. From the outside the 1960 and 1961 look identical. I’ve converted a number of my own 1960’s by removing two speakers and blocking the holes with square plywood pieces. Great video as always friend, you’re doing gods work 👍
I’ve got to say, the 1961 is definitely one of my favorite cabs of all time, you’re in for a treat regardless if you find a real 1961 or convert a 1960. They’re fairly rare, so a conversion job is probably your best bet, especially in Sweden!
Love all your interesting experiments, with only one speaker sounds closer to a combo, even a little bit like a Fender Deluxe to my ear. Thanks for sharing, Johan!
I really like the single speaker! Would love to hear if there's a difference between the one speaker 4x12 and a true 1x12. How much more bass resonance do you get vs the smaller box? Really interesting idea, thanks Johan!
Nice experiment! I think it shows clearly that the single speaker configuration, for recording, is much more focused and rounder. In a live situation, maybe the four speaker configuration is still more desirable: it does its job filling the room - as the room mike only samples prove. Thank you, Jphan, for sharing your curiosity. Best regards.
The single 12 is more focused with less lows and the highs pop out more. I actually tried this with my modern 2014 Marshall cab loaded with 75s and got the same results.
I've done something similar that I would like to share. Using a straight 4x12, I removed the tone post, and built a baffle in the shape of a plus sign + to isolate each speaker. The cab now has 4 different speakers, each with their own input jack. It has proven to be a good way to demonstrate tonal differences in a manageable arrangement. Thanks for what you do, Cheers !
Johan, please add your own impression of your tests so we can see if you and us come up with the same result. For this, I perceived a change from the full 4x12 to the solo speaker. It seemed to lose some bottom end and fullness. Thanks for all your fun demos and tests!
Thanks Bubba! I preferred the 1-speaker setup actually since it had a more percussive and spatially rich upper mid. The frequencies list should belong to other instruments in the mix to me. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Johan, in the 800 series Marshall made a full-size (like a 4-12) diagonally mounted 2-12 cab. I don't remember the model number. Do you have one of those or have you ever played through one?. I'm not talking about the smaller 1966 cab, this was a full 4-12 size cab with only 2 twelves in it. I have never actually seen one except in a Marshall catalog.
I agree with Johan , I bought 4 T1281 Greenbacks and didn't know how to wire them properly. So , I hooked a single and it sounded about 50% - 75% as "big" . Surprisingly when all 4 were hooked up I was at first underwhelmed having expected it to sound 4x's larger . The single speaker seemed to have a sound that 4 no longer could express . The nuance of the single voice lost in the chorus . Sweet chorus though.
@@alanthompson3493 You're thinking of the 1961A/1961B cabs. They were the full size 1960 cabs, but were diagonal 2x12's rather than 4x12's, and were made from around '87 to '91, or somewhere in that neighborhood. I just scored an empty 1960A cab. I'm going to block the upper right and lower left speaker holes, and run it as a 1961A clone with an Heritage G12H30 55/75 combo.
First of all, both sound fantastic with close&room mic combined. I would play rhythm on the 4x12 because it has a wider or fuller sound to me. Then I would play lead on the 1x12 as it is more crisp and sharp to my ears. Nice Job Johan!!
That was a surprising difference! The full 4x12 definitely has a more scooped midrange. Personally, I would use the 1x12 onstage, as the sound at a live gig is normally rather cluttered and messy, so you need those extra mids to slice through the other instruments. However, in a studio setting I would definitely go for the 4x12. When I mix my own recordings, I inevitably find myself EQ’ing in a subtle but wide cut centred around 400Hz to allow the lows and highs to shine through more, and the 4x12 kinda does that for you without any change on the EQ. Best to get it sounding right in the first place!
This is similar to findings by an author of guitar amplifier and related books Kevin O' Connor who found that by removing 2 speakers in a 4x12 cabinet you would create a "detuned" cabinet. Improving the sound, maintaining the same spl at twice the distortion. His argument as I understand it was that the design of the cabinets among many other things was created around economic savings. Not the "best sound".
Funny ! I use a old Marshall 4x12 Cab filled with just 2 speakers , an Eminence 30 watt in the top and bottom is Celestion H12-30 ,mounted Diagonal , other 2 holes are closed with a small bass port in the middle , helps me also to control the volume Playing in Pubs &bars and such
I have 2x12 greenback in 4x12 slant cabinet and it sound good, but in the future there will be full set 4x12 and i think it will be beter spreed of sound.
Through the smart TV home theatre setup, the 4x12 thing really does sound like an AC/DC type of sound. But once you shift over to the single speaker, it’s all gone. Now we know, they recorded with all speakers in action.
Johan, finding this video is a great follow on to your other more recent one I saw recently where you butted two B cabs together. It proved that there's a lot of truth in the age old wisdom of engines in motor sports: "There's no replacement for displacement!" That's why I'm super happy that I just scored an empty 1960A cab that I'm going to block two of the speaker holes on, and run it as a clone of the full size 1961A 2x12 cab. Cheers and thank you for the AWESOME demos!
WOW! What a difference!!! I suspected that there would be a substantial difference with the room mic but I would have never guessed how much of a difference it makes when you close mic a single speaker!!!
One speaker alone is stuck trying to translate the whole signal, it handles it, but the mid is almost compressed, pushed up in the mix, while 4x12 has more "sweep" control on the mids. The speaker doesn't have to "dictate" the entire signal when there's four to split the frequencies. Thanks for posting!!
I'll likely be recording just one speaker in a 4x12. There's benefits and trade offs to 1x12 vs 4x12 recording, but what you showed seems to be the best of both worlds.
There's something I like about the one speaker better than the 4x12 actually. I feel like some high frequencies are being attenuated by phase issues with multiple speakers, and that leaves more low end intact, as well as having more bass anyway, with more force pushing the cabinet wood. One speaker sounds more crunchy, and the 4x12 sounds more buzz saw. That's why I like to have a 4x12 and a single speaker cabinet to choose from, cause they're so different and both sound great for different things
Listened on my sennheiser wireless headphones while doing chores. Had to come back and look to see what I was hearing. The close+room mic sounded better and less muddy to me with one speaker than with the four. I'd use that for a mix for sure.
Fascinating video. Thankyou so much. I've been doing alot of research on this lately as I have a 412 cab with just two speakers wired in it and two dead ones. It was my understanding the the extra cab size increases low end, and that the dead speakers act as passive radiators/drone cones further increasing the low end. However this video shows me that the complete opposite is true!
FOR YEARS! Ok, you are doing A great video and then ANOTHER and then...and then...I can not believe after years still new innovative interesting videos...each time...
Fascinating experiment! I love how you come up with these Johan. :D I actually own a red tolex Marshall straight/bottom cab, circa '70-'71, with original G12M25's, so I'm a sucker for the full half-stack tone--a major part of which (for me) is how the whole thing interacts with the guitar. Still, I was surprised at how reminiscent the single speaker was of a 1x12 combo; I didn't expect the one speaker in that enclosure to have such a brawny sound!
Very helpful video, thank you! I am running into the same issue you addressed... the speakers are too damn expensive! It appears the 4x12's are more well-rounded and warmer (not considering playing with others) whereas the 1x12 is "trebly-er" and thinner. I ordered a Celestion Vintage 30 for my Marshall 4x12 cab, driven by a JCM900 4500 series (50W dual reverb) head. I'm sure eventually I'll fill the rest of the cab, and will report my personal findings here. Meanwhile, this video is SPOT ON, your comments and side-by-side comparisons using different tone settings really helped me a lot. Thank you!
Maybe 10 years ago I bought a ‘73 100w jmp super lead off a dude locally it came with a regrilled straightfront marshall cab from the same era. It was a great deal. I think someone else was also on the way to check it out. I tested it quickly and it sounded amazing so I quickly paid his asking price and left. Got home opened up the cab....4 original greenback H30’s but only 1 of the 4 actually working . Still a great deal .
Well this is the most interesting video I've seen all week. Maybe it's just because I'm naive, but I didn't expect the single speaker to have remarkably more upper-mid. I dig it.
A much bigger difference than I had expected. The 1x12 sounded better to me: tighter bass, clearer throughout the frequency range, but the same basic tone. What I hadn't expected was the difference in the treble and upper midrange: the single speaker sounded as though it had an extended upper range, not just the expected quieter bass. I can't think of any obvious reason for this, but the difference was so pronounced that I had no doubt about it. The 4x12 sounded muffled by comparison, as though somebody had laid a thick blanket over the speakers. The 1x12 would be better in a mix, but it might also be better live if you didn't need the greater volume onstage.
Repairing a Peavey VTX tube 2x12 combo I needed to test it with one speaker because I wanted to make double sure the other one was shot. With resistors instead of the other scorpion speaker it still sounds amazing, I have to say more speaker does not necessarily equal better tone. You are right about the bass, I definitely hear that and I also think some of the tone comes from the sheer loudness of multiple speakers but the results speak for themselves. If you take all the body panels and trim off a racecar... It's still a racecar 😁
I didn't expect this, but I liked the single speaker's sound better. It had more "edge". Another thing I found is that, with either setup, the room mic by itself wasn't super pleasing to the ear. I suppose it's more "for flavor" as part of a mix. Really cool experiment!
Johann that was a fantastic video as always man I was shocked I knew it was going to be better but I didn't know it was going to be that much better with the 1 12.so I guess producers were right!. a 112 does sound better than a 4 -12!!I once said the opportunity in Nashville to go to a famous producer Michael Wagner's house he had a recording studio and his basement. he also had something very interesting.. he had approximately 100 single 112-in boxes loaded with every kind of 12-in speaker you can imagine. and he had a conveyor belt system with several microphones on it they would go by any speakers and have robotic arm on it so he can control while in his control room and get any angle on the speaker he wanted it was amazing!
Hi Johan when I you disconected the 3 speakers the 4X12 lost all bottom end and got more mids. This could be a cheap alternative for someone who has only alternative to someone who only owns a 4X12 but wants to simulate other speakers. Stay safe and see ya next friday. Cheers.
This is too funny- I was just searching for a video pertaining to using a one 12-in speaker in a designed 212 cab, I wanted to see how it would sound and then I came across your video John you have the best gear related videos, great job man keep up the good work!
I watched a 2x12 vs 4x12 comparison vid recently. The 212 definitely had more low and high end. The 412 sounded less scooped and smoother but definitely less low end and high.
This is a great topic for a comparison but a difficult one to execute properly. If a true "apples to apples" comparison is to be made it would be critical to ensure that the speaker(s) are receiving equal power under both conditions. Assuming nothing else changed, the single 12 is receiving 4 times as much power as each speaker in the 4x12 configuration, this alone could account for the majority of the sonic effect. Wiring up a dummy cabinet off-mic with the 3 missing speakers would be one possible solution. A variable power amp would be another. Great video none the less!
I've often wondered this myself Johan; love your experiments. I don't know about other viewers but I'd love to hear your own conclusions at the end of these kinds of videos 👍🏼
I kinda knew the answer as soon as I read the question. I use the stereo option to run through two speakers instead of all four when I want to attenuate the boominess and overall spl.
apart from the impedance, the signal is shared between 4 speakers. So they are not pushed as hard as one single one. Now, if you connect the single greenback to 3 other ones in a insulation box you will get the real difference. And yes, the coupling effect is really high in multiple speaker setting. So much so that i often prefer 2x10 to 1x12.
I made an oversized 212 with a single Swamp Thang. It sounded really good. I was shocked. Way punchier than loaded with 2 twelves. Just need to make sure you have a high enough wattage single speaker to handle it. I like the Creamback to handle my 40 watt traynor YBA-1
Iv been using a 4x12 with only 2 connected the other 2 aren't . While its not the same it does pretty good . Ur 1 did better than id thot . Love the channel .
Hi Johan, fantastic vid as usual. I have an idea for a future vid - what does a guitar with a wooden bridge and nut sound like. You could just stick a small length of wood on top of a lowered abr-1, and a very (very) thin bit on the nut. Or obviously better yet remove a nut and replace with wood. This is possibly a shit idea but I can’t tell.
Great video. The “one speaker” stereo was surprisingly better. Can you do a video comparing 1 speaker wired in a 4x12 (like in this video) compared against the same speaker in a 1x12 enclosure?
Close mic'd, the single speaker sounds WAY better to me, with a fuller tone spectrum (this is something I've observed when recording, too). With the close and room mics combined, The single speaker sounds less compressed, with a little less bass and a little more bark - a bit like the tonal difference between a P90 & a humbucker. Thanks again Johan for these incredible educational videos. They are an encyclopedia of knowledge for all us guitar nerds out here.
I would imagine that, when you have multiple speakers there you're also prone to phase errors. Pretty much just a guess in my part, but at face value this statement would make sense.
Interesting video! They definitely sound much different, but i do like both the single and all 4. I have a Mesa .50 Caliber + and was looking at getting an empty 4 x12 cab and using just 2 of the speaker slots, diagonally. I think I watched a video you did using a Mesa .50 Caliber when i was looking at purchasing mine a few years back. Great, informative stuff! thanks!
hi Johan! loved the video: very interesting outcome. My post is directed to your initial motivation to save your vintage speakers. Tonally, i agree with other posts that the 'mids change'. i would guess that actually the highs are affected by the (out of) phase effects of the passively moving cones and the bass is attenuated as the cab is now less "tight" in that the passive cones move away from the cab / active cone during the pulse. Still an interesting effect, particularly for solo notes. kinda like a treble charger to an extent. My concern is that with less bass response specifically, and less volume overall in general, the temptation will be to "turn it up" in the single cone scenario to hear "it" above the upper cancellations and lower attenuation. This temptation plus the extra excursion of the cone in the passive situation will cause greater wear of your speakers and potentially greater increase the risk of damage to the active one. If the motivation is primarily sparing your speakers, i think you probably should seal the other three holes. Again, love the video(s). great place to start interesting discussion(s)!
I think the 4x12 would be really good for single coils + bright sounding guitars and that 1x12 for a really dark sounding Les Paul. For studio that 1x12 would be better, cause you eq most of the bottom mud away anyway. One time years ago I had a really dark sounding Tokai Les Paul in the studio and really distorted bottom heavy sound from the amp, but in the mix it sounded really skinny after removing the bass stuff away. It could be funny to get a 1x12 full stack to a gig this way.
If I may make a request, it'd be interesting to see a video comparing a body made of 1 piece of wood vs 11 or more pieces. Take a blank of wood, record samples with it, then cut it up and glue it back together before recording more samples. I think a lot of people would like to know whether glue in a guitar really changes the tone or not.
I only play death metal so I much prefer all 4 speakers. I'm surprised how big a difference it is. Blows my mind to think of the complex phasing and and coupling interactions. Changing any variable in the box dimensions, front or rear loaded, or speaker hole placement, and it will effect the tone. Just a lot of trial and error by speaker cab designers.
Great test, I've always wondered that. Now to test 2 in diagonal direction vs. up-down vs. left-right. I know, just a 2x12, but perhaps compare to a 2x12.
I've been wondering about this 1 12 in a big cab for a while, liked the video and am vommenting before hearing the video. Am really looking forward to seeing and hearing!!!! Gotta go gor now though....
You will obviously get cancellation because when the one active speaker pushes, it sucks the other speakers in and vice versa. It's something vaguely similar to going to an open back versus closed. Cancellation affects bass the most; we clearly hear that. It would be interesting to have a third point of comparison, like an open-backed 4x12. I think to get close to the 4x12 sound with one speaker, you will have to create a 4x12-sized cabinet that has only one speaker hole; no dummy speakers!
Found out some years ago that my Marshall 1960TV cabinet sounded MUCH better when running only one pair. of the right/Left pairs of speakers. Definition, dynamics and 3D-feeling was much improved. Same thing with my Peavey Classic 50 1990:s Combo; sounds muffled and not at all as defined and dynamic when running both speakers instead of one only. And it has NOT anything to do with swapped speaker polarity and undeliberate cancellation, I have tested thoroughly.
If you leave the other 3 inactive speakers in the cab they will act as a bass reflex passive radiator system and will produce more sound than 1 speaker alone. It may accentuate one frequency more than another (probably lower frequencies) though which 4 active speakers would not do.
Thanks for another great video Johan, I've been wondering about this experiment myself for quite some time, have to say the single speaker in a 4x12 cab sounds really great, more tight and punchy but less bass and thump. I'm curious though, why isn't the 25 watt greenback damaged by the 100 watt amp running only into it with the 3 other speakers disconnected??
The stereo effect from 2 side byside speakers is what makes solid state amps run through a cab way better. Not that solid state is an issue i just notice a big difference when you get the 2x12 stereo effects, theres more shit going on between the 2 speakers that adds a more traditional sonic tone. I cant describe it well but i noticed a huge difference when going from 1x12 to 2x12.
Very interesting! I do prefer the fullness of the 412. And I like to ear the impact on the 112 close miced! I own a oversized 2x12 Bogner that is a real good compromise (recently loaded with 2 Mueller cone Black Backs).
It's all just different flavors... or colors, if you're of the synesthetic persuasion! Like I recently mentioned on another of your videos, you could make use of both in recordings for two (or more) different vibes. Gotta say though, I played live with a 4x12 for years and the extra weight from all that air being moved is incredibly powerful and makes you play a whole different way to just a single or pair of speakers.
There's a clear difference, but the 4x12 with a single active speaker is actually not bad! Depending on the mix/context it may even be a better more cutting sound. I always find it mind-blowing how you blend the close and room mics together to get a huge sound! Did you pan some 30-40% close mic on the left and 60-80% room on the right as you explained in another video?
Using the close mic, the single speaker actually sounds better; using the room mic, all 4 together have a lot more presence. With both mics, it really depends on what kind of mix you want. For a big rock mix, the full cab might take up more space, but if you're wanting your guitar to sound like it's occupying a single point in a stereo field, or just looking for a more compact sound, the single speaker sounds better. For overdubbing solos, I can't imagine not wanting to use the single speaker, unless I was using volume for sustain and feedback. It sounds clearer, and by the time I get to overdubs, I'm getting sick of hearing loud amps.
I'm personally more of a fan of the 4 x 12 than the single, as I like the bass response, but the single definitely has greater clarity. Either way, Killer Tones.
Hell, i got some fun idea for you, quickly thinking about mentioned coupling and baffle step response. Up came an image of a: Bipolar/ombipolar 2x12 closed box, like in Mirage M speakers. Maybe that would make a killer sound with direct/reflected "semi-surround-like" greenback? Maybe you could tune the backward speaker to taste, filling up the right spots? Hmmm interesting :) (Big handles on the sides for lugging them around tho 😂)
Also consider a combo amp 1x12 too. All of the un-used speakers in the 4x12 act like passive radiators out of phase from the pressure of the one speaker when theyre unplugged.
Thought process would say, on a big gig, only one speaker would be mic'd. That said, my last gig was a bar gig with amp volume and a PA for vocals. There, full 4x12 would be it.
The single speaker sounded more organic to me which I liked. The notes seemed to breathe a bit more and the higher frequencies of the mids seemed a bit more pronounced. Wonder if the other magnets had an effect? Maybe do it again but put some foam or, even better, some 12” speakers with the magnets removed.
The big thing, in my mind, is how it works within a band mix. The full 4x12 sounds pleasing by itself, but most of the time the lows are just cluttering the sound.
The single 12” seems to have its focus on the “business-frequencies”.
I agree, I think it fit really nicely in many mixes
You’re the man Johan! The original guitar nerd mythbuster!
Another fantastic video. It made me think back to when I was younger and doing my studio engineer apprenticeship. ..the studio I was working in were recording this hard rock band...the guitar players came in with a full Marshall 4x12 stack along with an old mid 70's Marshall head...I think it was a Super Lead. ..anyways. .the engineer...told him to just leave the 4x12 cabinet aside and plugged him into a single 1x12 open back cabinet. The guitar tone was incredible...I was totally surprised by the results...the engineer looked at me and said "if you have a good guitar and a good amp head. ..a single 12 speaker is more then enough to get a great sound...and in fact many sounds if you move the mic in different positions. "
I really loved those days...i learned so much. That's why I really enjoy this channel. I've learned so much again. .
Thank you.
Hi Johan - this is HooVi - inventor of the Deeflexx Systems. I really like your experiments and tests like the AMP1 of my friend Thomas Blug - they are GREAT!
You showed in a perfect way how I surprise testers, when they want to use Deeflexx with 4x12 cabs.
Everybody is surprised about the still “big” sound, if you disconnect 2 (upper) speakers - that’s what I am doing. The upper speakers then work like a passive membrane in hifi speakers of older days.
Many users of our Deeflexx just disconnect the upper speakers and use 2 Systems to spread the sound evenly without a beaming zone. Some of them dismount the upper speakers and close the holes. So you still have the low resonance of an “oversized” 2x12.
The guitarist of a Deep Purple coverband is using such 2X “4”x12s stacked side to side. So only 4 speakers near the floor + the bass-coupling-effect give enough power and low-end to play on big festival stages. The Systems deflect the mid and high range sound like a sphere - no external monitoring or sound check is needed. And the weight is much lower - you must see the faces of the stagehands, when the carry around these cabs for the first time - hahaha! 😊
This was a perfect presentation of an effect that hardly no one believes - WELL DONE my friend!
You could show in a next test, how the sound of a 4x12 is changing, when you switch between upper and lower speakers. The upper row sound like tweeters compared to the lower row because of the missing bass coupling effect - a surprising effect!
Best regards from Tyrol - HooVi 👍😀
Yes, so if the cabinet only have one speaker, it will not have the same sound, because the passive cones make a difference.
What would we do without you, Johan ;-) You always ask the right questions and do the hard work. Thanks for that! I tend to prefer the 4x12 on its own for the full, 3D sound. The 1x12 sounds a little boxier, but also more open and defined, so it'd fit better in a mix IMO.
Cheers Alan ;-)
Johan, you might take an interest in the 1961a/b cabs. These were regular 1960’s with a 2x12 baffle. From the outside the 1960 and 1961 look identical. I’ve converted a number of my own 1960’s by removing two speakers and blocking the holes with square plywood pieces. Great video as always friend, you’re doing gods work 👍
Thanks my friend! Yeah I’m gonna do a 1961 first chance I get!
I’ve got to say, the 1961 is definitely one of my favorite cabs of all time, you’re in for a treat regardless if you find a real 1961 or convert a 1960. They’re fairly rare, so a conversion job is probably your best bet, especially in Sweden!
Love all your interesting experiments, with only one speaker sounds closer to a combo, even a little bit like a Fender Deluxe to my ear. Thanks for sharing, Johan!
Thanks Mark, glad to hear it!
I really like the single speaker! Would love to hear if there's a difference between the one speaker 4x12 and a true 1x12. How much more bass resonance do you get vs the smaller box? Really interesting idea, thanks Johan!
Thanks Andy! That could definitely be another video. Cheers!
A 12" greenback in a 1x12 vs 2x12 vs 4x12 would be very interesting and informative. Wonderful tonal and studio info!
Nice experiment! I think it shows clearly that the single speaker configuration, for recording, is much more focused and rounder. In a live situation, maybe the four speaker configuration is still more desirable: it does its job filling the room - as the room mike only samples prove. Thank you, Jphan, for sharing your curiosity. Best regards.
Thanks! I’m glad to hear that!
Another fantastic video from Johan. I've learnt so much from watching Johan's videos.
Thanks Andy, I’m really glad to hear that!
The single 12 is more focused with less lows and the highs pop out more. I actually tried this with my modern 2014 Marshall cab loaded with 75s and got the same results.
I've done something similar that I would like to share. Using a straight 4x12, I removed the tone post, and built a baffle in the shape of a plus sign + to isolate each speaker. The cab now has 4 different speakers, each with their own input jack. It has proven to be a good way to demonstrate tonal differences in a manageable arrangement. Thanks for what you do, Cheers !
Johan, please add your own impression of your tests so we can see if you and us come up with the same result. For this, I perceived a change from the full 4x12 to the solo speaker. It seemed to lose some bottom end and fullness.
Thanks for all your fun demos and tests!
Thanks Bubba! I preferred the 1-speaker setup actually since it had a more percussive and spatially rich upper mid. The frequencies list should belong to other instruments in the mix to me. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Johan, in the 800 series Marshall made a full-size (like a 4-12) diagonally mounted 2-12 cab. I don't remember the model number. Do you have one of those or have you ever played through one?.
I'm not talking about the smaller 1966 cab, this was a full 4-12 size cab with only 2 twelves in it. I have never actually seen one except in a Marshall catalog.
I agree with Johan , I bought 4 T1281 Greenbacks and didn't know how to wire them properly. So , I hooked a single and it sounded about 50% - 75% as "big" . Surprisingly when all 4 were hooked up I was at first underwhelmed having expected it to sound 4x's larger . The single speaker seemed to have a sound that 4 no longer could express . The nuance of the single voice lost in the chorus . Sweet chorus though.
@@alanthompson3493 You're thinking of the 1961A/1961B cabs. They were the full size 1960 cabs, but were diagonal 2x12's rather than 4x12's, and were made from around '87 to '91, or somewhere in that neighborhood.
I just scored an empty 1960A cab. I'm going to block the upper right and lower left speaker holes, and run it as a 1961A clone with an Heritage G12H30 55/75 combo.
First of all, both sound fantastic with close&room mic combined. I would play rhythm on the 4x12 because it has a wider or fuller sound to me. Then I would play lead on the 1x12 as it is more crisp and sharp to my ears. Nice Job Johan!!
That was a surprising difference! The full 4x12 definitely has a more scooped midrange. Personally, I would use the 1x12 onstage, as the sound at a live gig is normally rather cluttered and messy, so you need those extra mids to slice through the other instruments. However, in a studio setting I would definitely go for the 4x12. When I mix my own recordings, I inevitably find myself EQ’ing in a subtle but wide cut centred around 400Hz to allow the lows and highs to shine through more, and the 4x12 kinda does that for you without any change on the EQ. Best to get it sounding right in the first place!
This is similar to findings by an author of guitar amplifier and related books Kevin O' Connor who found that by removing 2 speakers in a 4x12 cabinet you would create a "detuned" cabinet. Improving the sound, maintaining the same spl at twice the distortion. His argument as I understand it was that the design of the cabinets among many other things was created around economic savings. Not the "best sound".
Yeah logistics and looks! Cheers
Ha I have that book!
Funny ! I use a old Marshall 4x12 Cab filled with just 2 speakers , an Eminence 30 watt in the top and bottom is Celestion H12-30 ,mounted Diagonal , other 2 holes are closed with a small bass port in the middle , helps me also to control the volume Playing in Pubs &bars and such
I have 2x12 greenback in 4x12 slant cabinet and it sound good, but in the future there will be full set 4x12 and i think it will be beter spreed of sound.
That single speaker sounds beautiful when close-miked
Both sound great. Nice licks Johan. It really made the demo quite enjoyable. I rewound and watched it 3 times just for the playing!
Through the smart TV home theatre setup, the 4x12 thing really does sound like an AC/DC type of sound.
But once you shift over to the single speaker, it’s all gone.
Now we know, they recorded with all speakers in action.
Johan, finding this video is a great follow on to your other more recent one I saw recently where you butted two B cabs together. It proved that there's a lot of truth in the age old wisdom of engines in motor sports: "There's no replacement for displacement!"
That's why I'm super happy that I just scored an empty 1960A cab that I'm going to block two of the speaker holes on, and run it as a clone of the full size 1961A 2x12 cab.
Cheers and thank you for the AWESOME demos!
WOW! What a difference!!! I suspected that there would be a substantial difference with the room mic but I would have never guessed how much of a difference it makes when you close mic a single speaker!!!
Yeah the speakers are coupled in the 4x12 case
One speaker alone is stuck trying to translate the whole signal, it handles it, but the mid is almost compressed, pushed up in the mix, while 4x12 has more "sweep" control on the mids. The speaker doesn't have to "dictate" the entire signal when there's four to split the frequencies. Thanks for posting!!
I'll likely be recording just one speaker in a 4x12. There's benefits and trade offs to 1x12 vs 4x12 recording, but what you showed seems to be the best of both worlds.
Wonderful experiment, you ask the things in my head.
Thanks, glad to hear that!
Finally, with the room and the clos mic mixed together, even with only 1 speaker, it's not so bad ✌🏻 and I think it could cut the mix easier.
There's something I like about the one speaker better than the 4x12 actually. I feel like some high frequencies are being attenuated by phase issues with multiple speakers, and that leaves more low end intact, as well as having more bass anyway, with more force pushing the cabinet wood. One speaker sounds more crunchy, and the 4x12 sounds more buzz saw. That's why I like to have a 4x12 and a single speaker cabinet to choose from, cause they're so different and both sound great for different things
Listened on my sennheiser wireless headphones while doing chores. Had to come back and look to see what I was hearing. The close+room mic sounded better and less muddy to me with one speaker than with the four. I'd use that for a mix for sure.
Thanks Justin
Fascinating video. Thankyou so much. I've been doing alot of research on this lately as I have a 412 cab with just two speakers wired in it and two dead ones. It was my understanding the the extra cab size increases low end, and that the dead speakers act as passive radiators/drone cones further increasing the low end. However this video shows me that the complete opposite is true!
It made a way bigger difference than I guessed it would! It sounded more open but less balanced and a little harsher to my ears. Also less bass
Interesting. Thank you Johan :)
Thanks Mato!
FOR YEARS! Ok, you are doing A great video and then ANOTHER and then...and then...I can not believe after years still new innovative interesting videos...each time...
Still coming back every 2 or 3 years. 😂🎉
Fascinating experiment! I love how you come up with these Johan. :D I actually own a red tolex Marshall straight/bottom cab, circa '70-'71, with original G12M25's, so I'm a sucker for the full half-stack tone--a major part of which (for me) is how the whole thing interacts with the guitar. Still, I was surprised at how reminiscent the single speaker was of a 1x12 combo; I didn't expect the one speaker in that enclosure to have such a brawny sound!
Thanks!
Very helpful video, thank you! I am running into the same issue you addressed... the speakers are too damn expensive! It appears the 4x12's are more well-rounded and warmer (not considering playing with others) whereas the 1x12 is "trebly-er" and thinner. I ordered a Celestion Vintage 30 for my Marshall 4x12 cab, driven by a JCM900 4500 series (50W dual reverb) head. I'm sure eventually I'll fill the rest of the cab, and will report my personal findings here. Meanwhile, this video is SPOT ON, your comments and side-by-side comparisons using different tone settings really helped me a lot. Thank you!
Well done Johan! Great comparison and demonstration! Thanks for sharing brother and Be Well All!
Thanks brother, have a great day!
Maybe 10 years ago I bought a ‘73 100w jmp super lead off a dude locally it came with a regrilled straightfront marshall cab from the same era. It was a great deal. I think someone else was also on the way to check it out. I tested it quickly and it sounded amazing so I quickly paid his asking price and left. Got home opened up the cab....4 original greenback H30’s but only 1 of the 4 actually working . Still a great deal .
Well this is the most interesting video I've seen all week. Maybe it's just because I'm naive, but I didn't expect the single speaker to have remarkably more upper-mid. I dig it.
Thanks!
A much bigger difference than I had expected. The 1x12 sounded better to me: tighter bass, clearer throughout the frequency range, but the same basic tone. What I hadn't expected was the difference in the treble and upper midrange: the single speaker sounded as though it had an extended upper range, not just the expected quieter bass. I can't think of any obvious reason for this, but the difference was so pronounced that I had no doubt about it. The 4x12 sounded muffled by comparison, as though somebody had laid a thick blanket over the speakers. The 1x12 would be better in a mix, but it might also be better live if you didn't need the greater volume onstage.
Repairing a Peavey VTX tube 2x12 combo I needed to test it with one speaker because I wanted to make double sure the other one was shot. With resistors instead of the other scorpion speaker it still sounds amazing, I have to say more speaker does not necessarily equal better tone. You are right about the bass, I definitely hear that and I also think some of the tone comes from the sheer loudness of multiple speakers but the results speak for themselves. If you take all the body panels and trim off a racecar... It's still a racecar 😁
Very informative . Thank you!
I didn't expect this, but I liked the single speaker's sound better. It had more "edge". Another thing I found is that, with either setup, the room mic by itself wasn't super pleasing to the ear. I suppose it's more "for flavor" as part of a mix. Really cool experiment!
Thanks man, yeah this room requires really careful mic positioning if the cab’s only gonna have a room mic.
Johann that was a fantastic video as always man I was shocked I knew it was going to be better but I didn't know it was going to be that much better with the 1 12.so I guess producers were right!. a 112 does sound better than a 4 -12!!I once said the opportunity in Nashville to go to a famous producer Michael Wagner's house he had a recording studio and his basement. he also had something very interesting.. he had approximately 100 single 112-in boxes loaded with every kind of 12-in speaker you can imagine. and he had a conveyor belt system with several microphones on it they would go by any speakers and have robotic arm on it so he can control while in his control room and get any angle on the speaker he wanted it was amazing!
Hi Johan when I you disconected the 3 speakers the 4X12 lost all bottom end and got more mids. This could be a cheap alternative for someone who has only alternative to someone who only owns a 4X12 but wants to simulate other speakers. Stay safe and see ya next friday. Cheers.
Thanks Jorge, Cheers!
This is too funny- I was just searching for a video pertaining to using a one 12-in speaker in a designed 212 cab, I wanted to see how it would sound and then I came across your video John you have the best gear related videos, great job man keep up the good work!
Guess now I finally know why my favorite cab is an older Mini Stack 212.
I watched a 2x12 vs 4x12 comparison vid recently. The 212 definitely had more low and high end. The 412 sounded less scooped and smoother but definitely less low end and high.
Fascinating - thanks for the comparison!
This is a great topic for a comparison but a difficult one to execute properly. If a true "apples to apples" comparison is to be made it would be critical to ensure that the speaker(s) are receiving equal power under both conditions. Assuming nothing else changed, the single 12 is receiving 4 times as much power as each speaker in the 4x12 configuration, this alone could account for the majority of the sonic effect. Wiring up a dummy cabinet off-mic with the 3 missing speakers would be one possible solution. A variable power amp would be another. Great video none the less!
Thanks Johan, this is very useful. Great results. Keep em coming!
Thanks Paul, I’m glad to hear that!
Great test. Really good idea! Thanks Johan - John B.
I've often wondered this myself Johan; love your experiments. I don't know about other viewers but I'd love to hear your own conclusions at the end of these kinds of videos 👍🏼
I kinda knew the answer as soon as I read the question. I use the stereo option to run through two speakers instead of all four when I want to attenuate the boominess and overall spl.
I liked the sound of only the close mic with only 1 speaker, so I think for recording it will work
Great idea can’t wait to see how it sounds!
apart from the impedance, the signal is shared between 4 speakers. So they are not pushed as hard as one single one. Now, if you connect the single greenback to 3 other ones in a insulation box you will get the real difference.
And yes, the coupling effect is really high in multiple speaker setting. So much so that i often prefer 2x10 to 1x12.
Between this and the video you did years ago about the open/closed vs 2 empty speaker holes, there's a ton of options for sonic variation!
Great demo. Would love to hear the same comparison with 2 instead of 1.
I made an oversized 212 with a single Swamp Thang. It sounded really good. I was shocked. Way punchier than loaded with 2 twelves.
Just need to make sure you have a high enough wattage single speaker to handle it. I like the Creamback to handle my 40 watt traynor YBA-1
fascinating idea - i cant wait to hear this!
Iv been using a 4x12 with only 2 connected the other 2 aren't . While its not the same it does pretty good . Ur 1 did better than id thot . Love the channel .
Hi Johan, fantastic vid as usual. I have an idea for a future vid - what does a guitar with a wooden bridge and nut sound like. You could just stick a small length of wood on top of a lowered abr-1, and a very (very) thin bit on the nut. Or obviously better yet remove a nut and replace with wood. This is possibly a shit idea but I can’t tell.
Thanks! It’s a really good idea! I’m gonna try it!
Great video. The “one speaker” stereo was surprisingly better. Can you do a video comparing 1 speaker wired in a 4x12 (like in this video) compared against the same speaker in a 1x12 enclosure?
one actually sounds pretty kickass!
I liked it too :-) Cheers
Close mic'd, the single speaker sounds WAY better to me, with a fuller tone spectrum (this is something I've observed when recording, too). With the close and room mics combined, The single speaker sounds less compressed, with a little less bass and a little more bark - a bit like the tonal difference between a P90 & a humbucker.
Thanks again Johan for these incredible educational videos. They are an encyclopedia of knowledge for all us guitar nerds out here.
I would imagine that, when you have multiple speakers there you're also prone to phase errors. Pretty much just a guess in my part, but at face value this statement would make sense.
2×12 is perfect.nice video from the master .
Thanks! :-)
@@JohanSegeborn specially if they are greenback from the 70s.i cant play any other speakers anymore im stuck.
I thought there would be a subtle difference but WOW! Full cab is amazingly better.
One has more resonance, never thought I'd be saying that.
A very good, informative and useful vid! Thanks Johan!
Huge difference!
Hi Daniel! I should probably have provided a standard size 1x12 as reference too.
Interesting video! They definitely sound much different, but i do like both the single and all 4. I have a Mesa .50 Caliber + and was looking at getting an empty 4 x12 cab and using just 2 of the speaker slots, diagonally. I think I watched a video you did using a Mesa .50 Caliber when i was looking at purchasing mine a few years back. Great, informative stuff! thanks!
1 speaker sounds amazing, Johan, i heard sometime ago that changing from 4, to 8 to 16 ohms setup changed the tone also.
Thanks, I investigate that in these videos
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ua-cam.com/video/sdGxVP_ju30/v-deo.html&app=desktop
hi Johan! loved the video: very interesting outcome. My post is directed to your initial motivation to save your vintage speakers.
Tonally, i agree with other posts that the 'mids change'. i would guess that actually the highs are affected by the (out of) phase effects of the passively moving cones and the bass is attenuated as the cab is now less "tight" in that the passive cones move away from the cab / active cone during the pulse. Still an interesting effect, particularly for solo notes. kinda like a treble charger to an extent.
My concern is that with less bass response specifically, and less volume overall in general, the temptation will be to "turn it up" in the single cone scenario to hear "it" above the upper cancellations and lower attenuation. This temptation plus the extra excursion of the cone in the passive situation will cause greater wear of your speakers and potentially greater increase the risk of damage to the active one.
If the motivation is primarily sparing your speakers, i think you probably should seal the other three holes.
Again, love the video(s). great place to start interesting discussion(s)!
I think the 4x12 would be really good for single coils + bright sounding guitars and that 1x12 for a really dark sounding Les Paul. For studio that 1x12 would be better, cause you eq most of the bottom mud away anyway. One time years ago I had a really dark sounding Tokai Les Paul in the studio and really distorted bottom heavy sound from the amp, but in the mix it sounded really skinny after removing the bass stuff away. It could be funny to get a 1x12 full stack to a gig this way.
Yeah a sheep in wolf clothes for sure. But with a great tone! Cheers!
If I may make a request, it'd be interesting to see a video comparing a body made of 1 piece of wood vs 11 or more pieces. Take a blank of wood, record samples with it, then cut it up and glue it back together before recording more samples. I think a lot of people would like to know whether glue in a guitar really changes the tone or not.
I only play death metal so I much prefer all 4 speakers. I'm surprised how big a difference it is. Blows my mind to think of the complex phasing and and coupling interactions. Changing any variable in the box dimensions, front or rear loaded, or speaker hole placement, and it will effect the tone. Just a lot of trial and error by speaker cab designers.
Great test, I've always wondered that. Now to test 2 in diagonal direction vs. up-down vs. left-right. I know, just a 2x12, but perhaps compare to a 2x12.
Thanks!
I've been wondering about this 1 12 in a big cab for a while, liked the video and am vommenting before hearing the video. Am really looking forward to seeing and hearing!!!! Gotta go gor now though....
You will obviously get cancellation because when the one active speaker pushes, it sucks the other speakers in and vice versa. It's something vaguely similar to going to an open back versus closed. Cancellation affects bass the most; we clearly hear that. It would be interesting to have a third point of comparison, like an open-backed 4x12.
I think to get close to the 4x12 sound with one speaker, you will have to create a 4x12-sized cabinet that has only one speaker hole; no dummy speakers!
Found out some years ago that my Marshall 1960TV cabinet sounded MUCH better when running only one pair. of the right/Left pairs of speakers. Definition, dynamics and 3D-feeling was much improved. Same thing with my Peavey Classic 50 1990:s Combo; sounds muffled and not at all as defined and dynamic when running both speakers instead of one only.
And it has NOT anything to do with swapped speaker polarity and undeliberate cancellation, I have tested thoroughly.
If you leave the other 3 inactive speakers in the cab they will act as a bass reflex passive radiator system and will produce more sound than 1 speaker alone. It may accentuate one frequency more than another (probably lower frequencies) though which 4 active speakers would not do.
Great video Johan! Thanks!
Thanks for another great video Johan, I've been wondering about this experiment myself for quite some time, have to say the single speaker in a 4x12 cab sounds really great, more tight and punchy but less bass and thump. I'm curious though, why isn't the 25 watt greenback damaged by the 100 watt amp running only into it with the 3 other speakers disconnected??
Thanks! I’m using an attenuator to knock off some power,
The stereo effect from 2 side byside speakers is what makes solid state amps run through a cab way better. Not that solid state is an issue i just notice a big difference when you get the 2x12 stereo effects, theres more shit going on between the 2 speakers that adds a more traditional sonic tone. I cant describe it well but i noticed a huge difference when going from 1x12 to 2x12.
Very interesting! I do prefer the fullness of the 412. And I like to ear the impact on the 112 close miced!
I own a oversized 2x12 Bogner that is a real good compromise (recently loaded with 2 Mueller cone Black Backs).
Thanks!
that's what I always wanted to hear. thanks!
Thanks
Great tone as always!
It's all just different flavors... or colors, if you're of the synesthetic persuasion!
Like I recently mentioned on another of your videos, you could make use of both in recordings for two (or more) different vibes.
Gotta say though, I played live with a 4x12 for years and the extra weight from all that air being moved is incredibly powerful and makes you play a whole different way to just a single or pair of speakers.
Yeah it would definitely make me play different riffs.
There's a clear difference, but the 4x12 with a single active speaker is actually not bad! Depending on the mix/context it may even be a better more cutting sound. I always find it mind-blowing how you blend the close and room mics together to get a huge sound! Did you pan some 30-40% close mic on the left and 60-80% room on the right as you explained in another video?
I wish you could do the Josh Homme setup when he was in Kyuss, a jcm900 through an ampeg 8×10 cab should be quite awsome to hear irl
Brutal rig for sure :)
@@JohanSegeborn yes please we gotta hear that!
Using the close mic, the single speaker actually sounds better; using the room mic, all 4 together have a lot more presence. With both mics, it really depends on what kind of mix you want. For a big rock mix, the full cab might take up more space, but if you're wanting your guitar to sound like it's occupying a single point in a stereo field, or just looking for a more compact sound, the single speaker sounds better.
For overdubbing solos, I can't imagine not wanting to use the single speaker, unless I was using volume for sustain and feedback. It sounds clearer, and by the time I get to overdubs, I'm getting sick of hearing loud amps.
Pretty much as expected. I was curious to see how the lack of back pressure would affect the single 12" with the close mic.
I prefer the single 12, especially for recording!
1 speaker great. Use big cab for the visual theatre but load with one one speaker and weight loss and defined mids is achieved
I'm personally more of a fan of the 4 x 12 than the single, as I like the bass response, but the single definitely has greater clarity. Either way, Killer Tones.
With the close mic it seemed like different shades, but the room was quite dramatic
Hell, i got some fun idea for you, quickly thinking about mentioned coupling and baffle step response.
Up came an image of a: Bipolar/ombipolar 2x12 closed box, like in Mirage M speakers.
Maybe that would make a killer sound with direct/reflected "semi-surround-like" greenback?
Maybe you could tune the backward speaker to taste, filling up the right spots?
Hmmm interesting :)
(Big handles on the sides for lugging them around tho 😂)
Also consider a combo amp 1x12 too. All of the un-used speakers in the 4x12 act like passive radiators out of phase from the pressure of the one speaker when theyre unplugged.
Thought process would say, on a big gig, only one speaker would be mic'd.
That said, my last gig was a bar gig with amp volume and a PA for vocals.
There, full 4x12 would be it.
The single speaker sounded more organic to me which I liked. The notes seemed to breathe a bit more and the higher frequencies of the mids seemed a bit more pronounced. Wonder if the other magnets had an effect? Maybe do it again but put some foam or, even better, some 12” speakers with the magnets removed.
Well I think one speaker in the large cab sounds good Maybe better than a small box single speaker 😉