Another good tip what i do is mute the first guitar when recording the the 2nd track as the 1st track can be a little off putting and you can hear more clearly what you are recording in track 2 when track 1 is muted. :)
This is good if you know your parts well! If you have a guitarist who strays on the rhythm it’s helpful to still hear the double track so you can pull them in line 😂
And it is soooooo much more satisfying when you do this, you have all the tracks recorded when you’re doing a quad track, you pan everything, unmute and give it that first listen… there’s nothing like it. 😎 I just got goosebumps.
I like to pull the volume down a bit so I can sorta hear what was going on. That being said I’ve ruined more takes than I can count by getting mixed up listening to a track while recording.
3:00 if you have a guitarist like this, have them play the same part over in the same take. For example) if the pre chorus is 4 bars, stretch it/loop it to 8 or 16 bars, cut it up and you have your takes and theyll be more consistent then stoping and starting 4 times
13:56 Using the same guitar to avoid potential issues from intonation differences is valid point. Especially for stuff like this where everything is really tight an cohesive sounding.
I committed a cardinal sin and listened to this on a mono Bluetooth speaker and it’s almost ridiculous how even when collapsed to mono how much bigger double and quad tracking sounds. It was ABSOLUTELY noticeable even in this most unoptimized of settings. Fantastic video, thank you!
Talk about the simplest most effective way to describe and demonstrate how this is done. Thank you so much. I've recorded one album in my life in a studio and the producer made me do this with my guitars and never explained why it needed to be done.
I have great success with double tracking 1 guitarist using a tone and the other guitarist using a different but complementary tone and pan each guitarist left and right. Sounds HUGE and adds some nice variation.
Love the contrast advice to smash out to hard panned for big sections of the song. I've never done this before and excited to try on a few recent mixes :)
@@spinlightstudios So good. I put this in a big rock song yesterday and love the results. I panned verses to 50% LR, then the chorus blasts in at 100% LR and sounds huge :)
I just started double tracking guitars after doing a single track for years. This is exactly what I needed to see. Great content man, love your videos!
best explanation of dual and quad tracking ever. So many don't even go over the levels of the 2 quads in comparison to the first two L and R tracked, let alone what to do when you got a bunch of leads mixed in with the rhythms on where things sit.
Great video, brother! Appreciate you putting together so many samples so we could hear the differences between tracking methods. And that contrasting pan tip at the end is amazing! Kind of embarrassed I never thought of that 😭
Good tip to get good doubles or quads for all performances, building on your tip to do it straight away: if you loop a section while recording, some DAWs like Studio One have functions that will jump to a new track with each loop, so you can literally just keep playing the same section non-stop and get all the takes in one go. I'd record more than you need and then keep only the best takes at mixing time. Another vantage of going with more takes than you need is that you have more stuff to comp, if needed, and you can use the additional tracks for effects (pitch them one octave up, change distortion setup, thin it up and add to the background to make a section beefier, for instance).
It's a valuable lesson to double track guitars. I always do 4 rhythm tracks. One tone x 2 (L/R) and a second tone x 2 (L/R) If you get the two tones to gel, it creates a wall of sound. And sometimes, in the Chorus I add a third tone and put that track in the Centre. It just lifts the Chorus. And because I'm a sloppy player, I usually loop 16 bars and jam one riff at a time. Once I get a good take, I cut and paste to create the song. The final result always sounds like I did it in one take.
@@lordhammerwind you may have taken me too seriously. It was a throwback to his intro "G'day legends." Not everything is intended to be taken literally. 😉
DUDE! This touched on so many things I've had running around in my mind. You made good sense and explained /demonstrated everything very well. Thank you, brother. This was truly helpful! I am also going to download the Gojira amp sim asap! You may certainly have my subscription.
Something I recommend trying is on one side flipping the phase before the amp (not before amp pedals/EQ), and a second time right after the amp before any cab or post effects. Kohle made a great video for this. This beats the delay one side haas thing so much and there’s no phasey mess in mono. A double plus it even works great for real double tracking as well.
Pro tip: don't hard pan guitars. Do Max of 80% R/L so when you have a mono speaker ie cellphone, your guitars don't shrink in the mix. You can demonstrate this by checking your mix in mono. Cheers
Respectfully, You guys are completely wrong on this in my opinion. You obviously should reference tracks in mono to make sure your guitars don’t disappear, but if you don’t hardpan, your mix will lose depth, and more importantly it will take away much needed space in the center for a vocal to sit well. If your guitars are disappearing while hard panning you need to reevaluate the guitar tone and choose something that will cut through more or not sit in the space of other components in your mix. Maybe this could work for more extreme music where you’re only working with extreme vocals, but I’d highly advise against this if you’re dealing with clean vocals
Also might work in a context outside of high gain guitars, like this vid. Classic rock, indie, pop stuff, but if it’s a rock or metal mix with high gain guitars imo you kinda have to hardpan if you want a mix that isn’t all guitar.
@Producer_Jeff respectfully use your ears bro. No one is "completely wrong" It sounds good, alot of famous producers do it, and the vocals aren't buried. I used to be like you and concrete in my thinking that LCR panning was gospel. But then a pro suggested I try this, and life got easier. If you're having to mess with your guitar tone to pop in a hard panned mix, it's not any worse to adjust them a little to make a vocal pop thru. Don't knock it till you try it. Cheers
@rainingsideways6001 Fair point, just my opinion at the end of the day, but I have tried this before and in my opinion it took away a lot of width in the mix. Maybe with a good master it could widen it back out. I’m also curious what kind of music you’re working on because that makes a difference.
I do 3 signal lines EVH style Full left (wet): +7 cent micro pitch, 370ms delay Center: Dry Full right (wet) -7 cent mico pitch, 490ms delay. A simulated wet/dry/wet stereo rig.
I record 2 separate guitar tracks (separate performances), then duplicate the first guitar track & put both tracks in a Track Stack in Logic panned hard left & right. I do the same for the second guitar track. Then I use 2 different amp sims for the guitars. Seems to work well. I might try quad tracking but I’ve already got a lot of other elements in the mix like lead guitars, synths etc.
I do the same thing sometimes. For the right song, you can do the single track with hard left and right amps for a verse and go double track for the chorus for added impact.
I think eq on guitar is such a needed topic after this video, the frequencie peaks sound completely different between mono and stereo, or the "ear perceived" sound.
Good stuff as always! Personally, I always use a different amp for rhythm doubles, mainly I think coming from a background of being in bands with two guitars, I always like when two tones come together nicely. If I’m doubling a part that is more lead like, or each guitar is doing different things, then I don’t mind using the same tone for the part twice. But that’s just me! I know it can be made to sound great using all one tone.
Excellent tutorial Rhys, thanks for taking the time in methodically explaining this . Would you apply this to other genres & also finger picked rhythm guitars?
edit: I was too eager - 19:56 answered this! :D What do you do if there's 2 guitarists playing different rhythms? Double track each guitarist still, but keep them panned to a side each?
Are they playing different rhythms intentionally? Sounds messy 🤔 But if there is two guitarists I would track them once each and pan either side - thus creating a double track - and then repeat for quad tracking.
Some of my fav amp combos are a dual recto mixed with a jcm800 or 2000, or a recto mixed with a 5150/6505. Or another thing Ill do is use different IRs or cabs which make the most difference
For wider guitars make different sounds oneach side by: - different amps on each side - different cab mics (or just blend more of one mic on one side) - make one side slightly less gain - pick 3 random frequencies and boost them on one side and cut on the other. Pick another 3 and repeat boosting in the side where you cut. Don't overdo it. To different will sound weird
If you are using a modeller for guitars, a good trick is to set up a stereo rig using different amps and IRs on the left and right, then record in stereo or send the left rig to one track and the right to another. Both tracks will sound completely different but they will be insanely tight!
Absolutely love it Rhys thanks! Just wanted to get your thoughts on eq, having slightly different on L & R has helped to widen them for me as well. Did you do this through the cab emulation or are they same same? Keep the vids coming mate! Legendary
I've also experimented(and still do) with guitar tone, nowadays i just do double track if the riffs are fast , most of the times I quad track the choruses and breakdowns and pitch the quads down, if the whole song is slower and I can get away by quad tracking everything, I will have 6 guitars on the choruses XD, but the extra couple will probably play the higher notes of the chords and most of the time their inversions.
13:56 I think that even with double tracking you should at least use a slightly different EQ, if not different amp tone. Same thing with guitars, not that you have to use a different one, but the variations will make it thicker if done right. Or maybe at least with different parts, like lead vs rhythms. It’s like with choirs, the reason they sound so huge is because of the variation in people’s vocal tone, timing, pitch, etc. even when they are super tight.
Interesting point about using the same guitar throughout. Myself I tend to pull upp guitars in Melodyne Studio and tune them 100% after the fact. (Eg. I use the center pitch macro, I don't fiddle note by note. It literally takes seconds). Of course that's an awfully expensive piece of kit just for tuning guitars, but if you already have it at your disposal it is incredibly convenient. Especially with 12-strings - or poorly intonated guitars for that matter.
@@spinlightstudios Yeah, polyphonically, which is why the cheaper versions of Melodyne won't work. About warbling: I guess it depends on the material, how dense the voicings are, how busy the part is, etc. I have noticed slight warbling on occasion, in which case I take it off. But most of the time it works like a charm - to my ears anyway. ;) But you certainly have a point, as over tones are tuned along with the fundamentals I assume things could wrong too. EDIT: I guess it could also depend on how much the source deviates from center pitch.
Oh and one more thing: I use amp sim plugins if I'm not miking up an acoustic, so the signal is always clean. I haven't tried tuning a guitar amped in the room after the fact, but I could imagine it sounding poor, with all the added overtones.
I am recording our band rehearsals and was curious if I could mic two different speakers on the cabinet using two different mics to achieve the double guitar sound? Thanks. Loved this video and I subscribed for more content!
It would technically be the same audio signal. But you might get some width out of panning them left and right. But I don’t think it would sound very wide. It’s like using the same DI through two different amp sims, I think it would still sound heavily down the center of the mix. But could be worth a try and see what results you get.
Awesome channel, just discovered a couple weeks ago great stuff! Is there a “right” way on where to place the IR plugin? Example: if I have hard left and right do I have an IR on each track in mono or do I have one IR plugin on the guitar bus with output of stereo? What about double mono? Should each channel be the same IR? Should it be the same phase on each? I’ve tried all and legit just can’t tell anymore what “in phase” and “out of phase” sounds better
Thanks man. The impulse response should come after your amp sim - neural already had a cab simulation built in, but if you bypass that you can load your own impulse response - which in my opinion should be straight after the amp sim. You could use the same or if you’re trying to vary the tones use a different IR per guitar. As long as it blends nicely is all that matters. I typically don’t use guitar sims on a stereo bus or in dual mono - but doesn’t mean you cant, I just prefer to process each individually.
The rule I follow with di guitars is to make sure when the guitar is being played its loudest it can’t possibly clip the interfaces preamp. Then I’ll experiment with the input in neural to see what sounds best with the amp/preset I’m using
Thx a lot! Thinking of making the stereo guitars heavier for a chorus maybe i often prefer not to quad them just with the same playing or choose a different Amp sound... i often suggest to minimize the lick for ..let me say.. the deeper bass tones, or just octaves and not playing the fifths.. or the opposite.. playing inversions... or just playing the same shit in another range of the fretboard... often is quite nice for the BIG STAGE ;)
Yeah totally, you can do different inversions, different shapes to add more Colour. Using a capo to play the chords in a different voicing is a cool trick too
If it’s the same DI just copy and pasted it will still somewhat collapse to the center, it’s the little differences in timing and pitch that make it sounds wide when you pan two different takes out
It hasn’t been released yet! There is vocals through the track, I took them out so we could focus on the guitars! I’ll drop a link once they release it
im looking at recording real amp heads into a load box then into audio interface with ir speaker cab [in software]. be interesting if you have worked with such a setup?
awesome info! just curious as your process of how you track the guitars ie do you only DI everything or do you mic up an amp and also DI simultaneously, what other things do you use with the Neural plug ins to get them to sound huge ie hardware compressor and eq? Cheers
Thanks mate! Usually I’ll track di and amp at the same time, for this project it was just Di. It just depends project to project! Processing is usually pretty simple. The important thing is getting a good tone so you don’t have to do as much to it. Basically just EQ and compression, some times no compression if it’s really distorted.
@ awesome thanks, would the signal chain in that case be: Guitar > DI box > channel strip on a desk/console > interface > DAW? Or straight from DI box to interface? Cheers mate
Useful tips. Thanks But for some reason Neutral DSPs heavy guitar plugins sound weird with palm mute: it doesn’t sound “chugy-chugy” it’s sounds more like “scratchy-scratchy” which is definitely not making sound heavy (that’s why I stopped using their plugins). Even old ZOOM 505 guitar has more “chug” IMO
I wonder if there is a plugin delay where you can send the mono guitar in and it will pop out a left and right guitar at random delays so the right guitar is never behind but random. I know it is not the best thing but if you are in a pinch maybe that can be a better solution when you only have a mono guitar.
You could use Flex Time and manually manipulate it, but you might find moments where it’s crosses over being in sync and pulls the image to the center. Usually I get around it by copy pasting repeated parts to create a double track. Ideally they just track it twice 😂😂
Thanks for the incredible video! Quick question... I see some lines at the start and end of almost every region. Is that like fading the guitars in and out so it doesn't sound all cropped up?
Thanks! Yes I manually “gate” guitar tracks. So remove noise and ad fade ins and outs so there is no pops/clicks etc you can do batch fades in logic, so usually I just do all the cuts and then add all the fades and then check it.
may i ask one question about the quad tracking i've caught myself countless times, hard panning 2 tracks on the L speaker and hard panning 2 tracks on the R speaker a friend of mine suggested me that i should hard pan one the left and one on the right and then its best to pan 75% Left and 75% Right whats your opinion about panning quad track guitars. Also i subbed, great instructional video
Thanks! It just depends on whether you want to bring some guitars into the center. This will help make the guitars not disappear as much when you listen in mono.
You could get some cool results, but it will still pull the image to the center as it’s still the same audio, I’ve tried this with different amp sims etc - you can get some interesting results but still not as good in my opinion as actually double tracking a part.
i have a bad issue with double/quad when listening to mono. volume drops when you listen to a double/quad tracked, but when you raise the levels during mono mixing its too loud when your back to stereo.
If you care about the mono image, maybe try adding a center track and tuck it down a bit lower, or don’t hard pan the guitars, bring them in a little until you can hear enough down the center. It’s all about compromise.
Hi, great video, thank you for sharing your experience! What about the phase issues between the guitar tracks? Do you align the phase of the tracks on the same pan side (e.g. coupling tracks 1L and 2L, separated from 1R and 2R), or do you align the phase of all the 2 or 4 guitar tracks L+R together?
I don’t play with phase between two separately recorded guitar tracks. Only with multi mic sources - like stereo mic’s acoustics, two mics on an amp, overheads etc
Can you help me clarifying some signal chain issues? If it's really an issue... I have my guitar plugged DI, and running an amp sim on my daw. On track 1 I have the amp sim, but the output of track 1 I have to another track. The input of the 2nd track is the output of track 1 with the amp sim printing onto the second track. The output of track 2 goes out the master out. This way I can record them turn off and mute the di and plugin track to work with just audio. (Although it prints to a stereo sign wave.) Does this signal path make sense or should I just have one track with the di signal and the amp sim plugin?
Are you doing this so you can record the amp sim as you’re playing? Or are you recording it to a new channel once you are done? Are you experience any latency if so? I would generally just track the di and listen to the amp sim - once finished bounce the amp sim in place (render is as an audio file). It’s the same as what you are doing but just making it an audio file with the amp tone written to it at the end.
@@spinlightstudios yea. recording the amp sim as im playing. I've already gone through and dialed in a tone that I am happy with and saved as a preset with all the effects and processing I want done on it. So really no need for me to check or tweak around with any of the amp settings. I was just curious if there were any drawbacks or issues doing it this way compared to the more traditional way of recording then bounce after.
Thanks for watching Legends! If you want to support this channel make sure you grab a sample pack or mixing course here: spinlightstudio.com/shop/
Another good tip what i do is mute the first guitar when recording the the 2nd track as the 1st track can be a little off putting and you can hear more clearly what you are recording in track 2 when track 1 is muted. :)
This is good if you know your parts well! If you have a guitarist who strays on the rhythm it’s helpful to still hear the double track so you can pull them in line 😂
100%. In general, I only want to hear drums when tracking rhythm guitars.
I definitely don't want to hear my other guit performance
And it is soooooo much more satisfying when you do this, you have all the tracks recorded when you’re doing a quad track, you pan everything, unmute and give it that first listen… there’s nothing like it. 😎
I just got goosebumps.
I like to pull the volume down a bit so I can sorta hear what was going on. That being said I’ve ruined more takes than I can count by getting mixed up listening to a track while recording.
@@XselfwillrunriotX congratulations , you have found and experienced the meaning of life!
3:00 if you have a guitarist like this, have them play the same part over in the same take. For example) if the pre chorus is 4 bars, stretch it/loop it to 8 or 16 bars, cut it up and you have your takes and theyll be more consistent then stoping and starting 4 times
Yeah totally, whatever works!
The ol'school "don't worry, I ain't recording, keep going" 😅
Nice tip..
13:56 Using the same guitar to avoid potential issues from intonation differences is valid point. Especially for stuff like this where everything is really tight an cohesive sounding.
I committed a cardinal sin and listened to this on a mono Bluetooth speaker and it’s almost ridiculous how even when collapsed to mono how much bigger double and quad tracking sounds. It was ABSOLUTELY noticeable even in this most unoptimized of settings. Fantastic video, thank you!
Hey man, just wanted to let you know these "huge tone" series that you are doing are really helpful. Appreciate these videos greatly 🙌
Thanks so much mate, really appreciate that! Might be a few more coming!
Talk about the simplest most effective way to describe and demonstrate how this is done. Thank you so much. I've recorded one album in my life in a studio and the producer made me do this with my guitars and never explained why it needed to be done.
Cheers man!
Great video dude. Great to see another Aussie metal producer. Very informative and engaging. Cool song too!!!
Thanks so much mate!
I have great success with double tracking 1 guitarist using a tone and the other guitarist using a different but complementary tone and pan each guitarist left and right. Sounds HUGE and adds some nice variation.
Perfect! As long as the tones compliment it will sound great!
The algorithm brought me here and I'm very glad it did! Great video, thanks for posting. Subscribed!!😊
Thanks so much legend!
One of the most insightful videos I've come across on this topic! Great & useful tips the whole way though
Thanks legend!
Some gold dust in here. Cheers buddy. Subscribed.
Thanks mate!
Love the way you explain things these tutorials are why I subscribed, would love to more of them.
Cheers Steve!
Love the contrast advice to smash out to hard panned for big sections of the song. I've never done this before and excited to try on a few recent mixes :)
Always a good trick for that big explosive guitar effect!
@@spinlightstudios So good. I put this in a big rock song yesterday and love the results. I panned verses to 50% LR, then the chorus blasts in at 100% LR and sounds huge :)
This is why I subscribed. You are a great teacher! Such good info here!
Thanks Kyle 🙏🏼
Great video, I had the basics but this definitely broadens the options.
Glad it was helpful!
I just started double tracking guitars after doing a single track for years. This is exactly what I needed to see. Great content man, love your videos!
Thanks so much! Glad to hear it's helping. 🙂
You can also use four guitars tracks.two on the left and two on the right , just amazing 🤘🤘
Quad it up!
@@Artificial_tears imma have to try that too dude, thanks for the idea man 😁
best explanation of dual and quad tracking ever. So many don't even go over the levels of the 2 quads in comparison to the first two L and R tracked, let alone what to do when you got a bunch of leads mixed in with the rhythms on where things sit.
Thanks man! 🙏🏼
Thanks man. When and how to use quad tracking I was definitely a bit sketchy on. Awesome tips
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, brother! Appreciate you putting together so many samples so we could hear the differences between tracking methods. And that contrasting pan tip at the end is amazing! Kind of embarrassed I never thought of that 😭
Cheers man! Glad you got something out of it!
Good tip to get good doubles or quads for all performances, building on your tip to do it straight away: if you loop a section while recording, some DAWs like Studio One have functions that will jump to a new track with each loop, so you can literally just keep playing the same section non-stop and get all the takes in one go.
I'd record more than you need and then keep only the best takes at mixing time. Another vantage of going with more takes than you need is that you have more stuff to comp, if needed, and you can use the additional tracks for effects (pitch them one octave up, change distortion setup, thin it up and add to the background to make a section beefier, for instance).
This is truly one of the best videos on the subject. Thank you for making and sharing this!
Much appreciated!
It's a valuable lesson to double track guitars. I always do 4 rhythm tracks. One tone x 2 (L/R) and a second tone x 2 (L/R) If you get the two tones to gel, it creates a wall of sound. And sometimes, in the Chorus I add a third tone and put that track in the Centre. It just lifts the Chorus. And because I'm a sloppy player, I usually loop 16 bars and jam one riff at a time. Once I get a good take, I cut and paste to create the song. The final result always sounds like I did it in one take.
Working on your Pop Punk Easycore tracks right now. I'm totally going to try this. Thanks Rhys. You're a legend.
Awesome! Hope it helps!
Legend?!!
Man..UA-cam copy pasta with phrases and vernacular in general... OOF!!!
@@lordhammerwind you may have taken me too seriously. It was a throwback to his intro "G'day legends."
Not everything is intended to be taken literally. 😉
Congratulations on your work, watching your video here in Brazil
Thanks man!
DUDE! This touched on so many things I've had running around in my mind. You made good sense and explained /demonstrated everything very well. Thank you, brother. This was truly helpful! I am also going to download the Gojira amp sim asap! You may certainly have my subscription.
Thanks legend!
Something I recommend trying is on one side flipping the phase before the amp (not before amp pedals/EQ), and a second time right after the amp before any cab or post effects.
Kohle made a great video for this. This beats the delay one side haas thing so much and there’s no phasey mess in mono. A double plus it even works great for real double tracking as well.
Thanks a lot man, technically your video has been very useful, but I would say that last remarks about contrast are even more important!
Thanks mate!
my man is mixing some tight easy core
great vid!!!
Appreciate it 🙏🏼
contrast is king - very good insight - appreciate your channel your very good at what you do!
Thanks so much legend!
Pro tip: don't hard pan guitars. Do Max of 80% R/L so when you have a mono speaker ie cellphone, your guitars don't shrink in the mix. You can demonstrate this by checking your mix in mono. Cheers
yeah big mistake, now i just pan guitars 60%
Respectfully, You guys are completely wrong on this in my opinion. You obviously should reference tracks in mono to make sure your guitars don’t disappear, but if you don’t hardpan, your mix will lose depth, and more importantly it will take away much needed space in the center for a vocal to sit well. If your guitars are disappearing while hard panning you need to reevaluate the guitar tone and choose something that will cut through more or not sit in the space of other components in your mix. Maybe this could work for more extreme music where you’re only working with extreme vocals, but I’d highly advise against this if you’re dealing with clean vocals
Also might work in a context outside of high gain guitars, like this vid. Classic rock, indie, pop stuff, but if it’s a rock or metal mix with high gain guitars imo you kinda have to hardpan if you want a mix that isn’t all guitar.
@Producer_Jeff respectfully use your ears bro. No one is "completely wrong" It sounds good, alot of famous producers do it, and the vocals aren't buried. I used to be like you and concrete in my thinking that LCR panning was gospel. But then a pro suggested I try this, and life got easier. If you're having to mess with your guitar tone to pop in a hard panned mix, it's not any worse to adjust them a little to make a vocal pop thru. Don't knock it till you try it. Cheers
@rainingsideways6001 Fair point, just my opinion at the end of the day, but I have tried this before and in my opinion it took away a lot of width in the mix. Maybe with a good master it could widen it back out. I’m also curious what kind of music you’re working on because that makes a difference.
exactly what i needed! been looking for this kind of tutorial for ages.
Glad it was helpful mate!
as always, thank you for the wisdom, never give up on the channel !!!
Thanks mate! Appreciate it!
This mix sounds brutal..Great tutorial. Thank you!
Cheers legend!
I do 3 signal lines EVH style
Full left (wet): +7 cent micro pitch, 370ms delay
Center: Dry
Full right (wet) -7 cent mico pitch, 490ms delay.
A simulated wet/dry/wet stereo rig.
This video comes just as I am hearing up to track guitars for a hardcore project this weekend. Great work as usual!
Hope you find it helpful! A tip, Make sure you track a DI if you’re tracking live amps!
Dude...best videos on YT!!! I so appreciate your channel, Thank You!!
Appreciate that man!
this is pure gold! Thanks for share, will help a lot 🙏
No problem!
Some excellent tips in this video Rhys.
Cheers mate!
Great tip at the end mono to stereo
I record 2 separate guitar tracks (separate performances), then duplicate the first guitar track & put both tracks in a Track Stack in Logic panned hard left & right. I do the same for the second guitar track. Then I use 2 different amp sims for the guitars. Seems to work well. I might try quad tracking but I’ve already got a lot of other elements in the mix like lead guitars, synths etc.
I do the same thing sometimes. For the right song, you can do the single track with hard left and right amps for a verse and go double track for the chorus for added impact.
You answered a lot of questions. Great vid!
Thanks mate!
I think eq on guitar is such a needed topic after this video, the frequencie peaks sound completely different between mono and stereo, or the "ear perceived" sound.
Love your videos mate, thanks for some awesome tips!
Thanks legend!
This is actually gold, thanks heaps legend!
No worries mate!
Fantastic 🤘🏿🤘🏿🤘🏿🤘🏿
Cheers mate!
Great stuff. Thank you
No worries!
LIKED and added to favorites before even watching it!
Haha thanks mate!
Good stuff as always! Personally, I always use a different amp for rhythm doubles, mainly I think coming from a background of being in bands with two guitars, I always like when two tones come together nicely. If I’m doubling a part that is more lead like, or each guitar is doing different things, then I don’t mind using the same tone for the part twice. But that’s just me! I know it can be made to sound great using all one tone.
Excellent tutorial Rhys, thanks for taking the time in methodically explaining this . Would you apply this to other genres & also finger picked rhythm guitars?
Absolutely, works in any guitar driven material, clean guitars, finger picking etc, if you want a big wide sound, worth trying out!
Wow, Thanx good tip! Amazin dude!
Must watch. Teaching quality
Thanks 🙏🏼
edit: I was too eager - 19:56 answered this! :D
What do you do if there's 2 guitarists playing different rhythms?
Double track each guitarist still, but keep them panned to a side each?
Are they playing different rhythms intentionally? Sounds messy 🤔
But if there is two guitarists I would track them once each and pan either side - thus creating a double track - and then repeat for quad tracking.
Guns 'n Roses: Appetite for destuction. Left-right 1-1 different track and it's amazing.
Brilliant video…. Contrast is indeed king!
Crazy how we can over complicate what can be such simple and effect ideas!
Some of my fav amp combos are a dual recto mixed with a jcm800 or 2000, or a recto mixed with a 5150/6505. Or another thing Ill do is use different IRs or cabs which make the most difference
For wider guitars make different sounds oneach side by:
- different amps on each side
- different cab mics (or just blend more of one mic on one side)
- make one side slightly less gain
- pick 3 random frequencies and boost them on one side and cut on the other. Pick another 3 and repeat boosting in the side where you cut.
Don't overdo it. To different will sound weird
If you are using a modeller for guitars, a good trick is to set up a stereo rig using different amps and IRs on the left and right, then record in stereo or send the left rig to one track and the right to another. Both tracks will sound completely different but they will be insanely tight!
I could see this working for metal but for me personally, the incremental timing differences between the two takes makes it sound that much bigger
@ yep, agreed. I don’t do it every time. Usually with faster tempo stuff, when you need it to be really tight.
I found that if you use two different takes recorded at the same time, it's the same as double tracking or playing the parts separately.
@ yep, that’s exactly what I’m saying :)
HAAS effect is good for for the 2 hard panned left and right together though.
Great vid mate
Cheers legend!
Nolly is a Peavy Block Letter 5150 and Gojira is a EVH 5150 III Stealth
Sure, but they aren’t exactly the same which is all that matters. You could use the same head and a different cab and that would be enough :)
good tips thanks!
Absolutely love it Rhys thanks!
Just wanted to get your thoughts on eq, having slightly different on L & R has helped to widen them for me as well. Did you do this through the cab emulation or are they same same?
Keep the vids coming mate! Legendary
For this they are pretty much the same! But eqing them different can help create some difference / width.
I've also experimented(and still do) with guitar tone, nowadays i just do double track if the riffs are fast , most of the times I quad track the choruses and breakdowns and pitch the quads down, if the whole song is slower and I can get away by quad tracking everything, I will have 6 guitars on the choruses XD, but the extra couple will probably play the higher notes of the chords and most of the time their inversions.
Nice! Quad tracking does add some serious weight!
13:56 I think that even with double tracking you should at least use a slightly different EQ, if not different amp tone. Same thing with guitars, not that you have to use a different one, but the variations will make it thicker if done right. Or maybe at least with different parts, like lead vs rhythms. It’s like with choirs, the reason they sound so huge is because of the variation in people’s vocal tone, timing, pitch, etc. even when they are super tight.
Totally, good tip for sure!
Interesting point about using the same guitar throughout. Myself I tend to pull upp guitars in Melodyne Studio and tune them 100% after the fact. (Eg. I use the center pitch macro, I don't fiddle note by note. It literally takes seconds). Of course that's an awfully expensive piece of kit just for tuning guitars, but if you already have it at your disposal it is incredibly convenient. Especially with 12-strings - or poorly intonated guitars for that matter.
Do you do this in polyphonic mode? I find it warbles the sound too much tuning chords. Or maybe I’m doing wrong 🤷🏻♂️
@@spinlightstudios Yeah, polyphonically, which is why the cheaper versions of Melodyne won't work. About warbling: I guess it depends on the material, how dense the voicings are, how busy the part is, etc. I have noticed slight warbling on occasion, in which case I take it off. But most of the time it works like a charm - to my ears anyway. ;) But you certainly have a point, as over tones are tuned along with the fundamentals I assume things could wrong too.
EDIT: I guess it could also depend on how much the source deviates from center pitch.
Oh and one more thing: I use amp sim plugins if I'm not miking up an acoustic, so the signal is always clean. I haven't tried tuning a guitar amped in the room after the fact, but I could imagine it sounding poor, with all the added overtones.
That was a good one.
Excellent work. Thank you for these educational videos. Is it possible to listen to this song somewhere?
Thanks! Not yet, but I think soon, I’ll pop a link in the description when it’s available!
@@spinlightstudios Thank you for the info and especially for what you do. I appreciate it.
thank you!
I am recording our band rehearsals and was curious if I could mic two different speakers on the cabinet using two different mics to achieve the double guitar sound? Thanks. Loved this video and I subscribed for more content!
It would technically be the same audio signal. But you might get some width out of panning them left and right. But I don’t think it would sound very wide. It’s like using the same DI through two different amp sims, I think it would still sound heavily down the center of the mix. But could be worth a try and see what results you get.
@@spinlightstudios Thank you for the reply! I'll give it a try and see what happens! I appreciate your reply!
Awesome channel, just discovered a couple weeks ago great stuff! Is there a “right” way on where to place the IR plugin? Example: if I have hard left and right do I have an IR on each track in mono or do I have one IR plugin on the guitar bus with output of stereo? What about double mono? Should each channel be the same IR? Should it be the same phase on each? I’ve tried all and legit just can’t tell anymore what “in phase” and “out of phase” sounds better
Thanks man.
The impulse response should come after your amp sim - neural already had a cab simulation built in, but if you bypass that you can load your own impulse response - which in my opinion should be straight after the amp sim. You could use the same or if you’re trying to vary the tones use a different IR per guitar. As long as it blends nicely is all that matters. I typically don’t use guitar sims on a stereo bus or in dual mono - but doesn’t mean you cant, I just prefer to process each individually.
Dog, we need a link to the song. Cheers
When the song is released I’ll link it!
It’s them little different nuances that make double tracking your guitar sounds so good!
What is the input gain on your interface when using the neural plugins?? Thanks.. great video
The rule I follow with di guitars is to make sure when the guitar is being played its loudest it can’t possibly clip the interfaces preamp. Then I’ll experiment with the input in neural to see what sounds best with the amp/preset I’m using
Genius!!
Awesomeness mannnnn you sound just like craig jones the aussie bjj legend. Hahahaha
Can u show us how to program midi drums correctly? i love your videos dude amazing content!
Yeah for sure! I have a video on midi drums already :) I popped a link to it in the description for you!
There are some tips for programming, not just mixing.
Thx a lot! Thinking of making the stereo guitars heavier for a chorus maybe i often prefer not to quad them just with the same playing or choose a different Amp sound... i often suggest to minimize the lick for ..let me say.. the deeper bass tones, or just octaves and not playing the fifths.. or the opposite.. playing inversions... or just playing the same shit in another range of the fretboard... often is quite nice for the BIG STAGE ;)
Yeah totally, you can do different inversions, different shapes to add more Colour. Using a capo to play the chords in a different voicing is a cool trick too
Would doubling DI tracks, but using different amp sims, put you into too similar a trap as just a standard doubling of a mono track?
If it’s the same DI just copy and pasted it will still somewhat collapse to the center, it’s the little differences in timing and pitch that make it sounds wide when you pan two different takes out
Great Video and really helpful, Thanks Man!! Is there any chance to get that Song's title?
It hasn’t been released yet! There is vocals through the track, I took them out so we could focus on the guitars! I’ll drop a link once they release it
im looking at recording real amp heads into a load box then into audio interface with ir speaker cab [in software]. be interesting if you have worked with such a setup?
I haven’t, but I’m also keen to try this out too!
'great video!!!!! :)
Thanks mate!
legend
awesome info! just curious as your process of how you track the guitars ie do you only DI everything or do you mic up an amp and also DI simultaneously, what other things do you use with the Neural plug ins to get them to sound huge ie hardware compressor and eq? Cheers
Thanks mate! Usually I’ll track di and amp at the same time, for this project it was just Di. It just depends project to project! Processing is usually pretty simple. The important thing is getting a good tone so you don’t have to do as much to it. Basically just EQ and compression, some times no compression if it’s really distorted.
@ awesome thanks, would the signal chain in that case be:
Guitar > DI box > channel strip on a desk/console > interface > DAW? Or straight from DI box to interface? Cheers mate
Would you also pan your quad tracks full L/R in a quad guitar section?
For this instance I did, but you could definitely experiment with the panning - there’s no rules.
@ Thanks. Also, do you always record your guitars having the plugin on mono?
Yes, unless I use stereo fx - then I use mono to stereo.
Useful tips. Thanks
But for some reason Neutral DSPs heavy guitar plugins sound weird with palm mute: it doesn’t sound “chugy-chugy” it’s sounds more like “scratchy-scratchy” which is definitely not making sound heavy (that’s why I stopped using their plugins). Even old ZOOM 505 guitar has more “chug” IMO
I wonder if there is a plugin delay where you can send the mono guitar in and it will pop out a left and right guitar at random delays so the right guitar is never behind but random. I know it is not the best thing but if you are in a pinch maybe that can be a better solution when you only have a mono guitar.
You could use Flex Time and manually manipulate it, but you might find moments where it’s crosses over being in sync and pulls the image to the center. Usually I get around it by copy pasting repeated parts to create a double track. Ideally they just track it twice 😂😂
@@spinlightstudios Very nice!. I appreciate the tip and I have been enjoying your channel.
Where can I hear the full song, ist awesome❤
It’s not out yet, but I’ll drop a link once it is!
3:01
I have an idea
Command Shift D
Haha
Thanks for the incredible video! Quick question... I see some lines at the start and end of almost every region. Is that like fading the guitars in and out so it doesn't sound all cropped up?
Thanks! Yes I manually “gate” guitar tracks. So remove noise and ad fade ins and outs so there is no pops/clicks etc you can do batch fades in logic, so usually I just do all the cuts and then add all the fades and then check it.
@@spinlightstudios Nice tip, thanks a lot! I also appreciate the quick reply!
may i ask one question about the quad tracking
i've caught myself countless times, hard panning 2 tracks on the L speaker and hard panning 2 tracks on the R speaker
a friend of mine suggested me that i should hard pan one the left and one on the right and then its best to pan 75% Left and 75% Right
whats your opinion about panning quad track guitars. Also i subbed, great instructional video
Thanks!
It just depends on whether you want to bring some guitars into the center. This will help make the guitars not disappear as much when you listen in mono.
How would one go about getting you to mix a song and finding out about your rates?
Hey man, just shoot me an email and we can chat! enquiries@spinlightstudio.com.au
What do you think about using a splitter to put the same take through 2 similar but different amps panned left and right?
You could get some cool results, but it will still pull the image to the center as it’s still the same audio, I’ve tried this with different amp sims etc - you can get some interesting results but still not as good in my opinion as actually double tracking a part.
Refering to the Gojira and Nolly quad sample at 13:44 ish - You are using two 5150's I do not feel there was much variance haha.
You can hear the tones sound different, regardless if it’s both 5150s, they are different modeled amps and cabs and mics are different
Cool video quad tracking using 2 different amps work mor me wat else are you using for post processing? Just eq?
Usually just EQ and comp - maybe no comp if it’s really distorted guitars
i have a bad issue with double/quad when listening to mono. volume drops when you listen to a double/quad tracked, but when you raise the levels during mono mixing its too loud when your back to stereo.
If you care about the mono image, maybe try adding a center track and tuck it down a bit lower, or don’t hard pan the guitars, bring them in a little until you can hear enough down the center. It’s all about compromise.
@@spinlightstudios WE should care about mono image by default, not all playback devices are stereo.
Hi, great video, thank you for sharing your experience!
What about the phase issues between the guitar tracks? Do you align the phase of the tracks on the same pan side (e.g. coupling tracks 1L and 2L, separated from 1R and 2R), or do you align the phase of all the 2 or 4 guitar tracks L+R together?
I don’t play with phase between two separately recorded guitar tracks. Only with multi mic sources - like stereo mic’s acoustics, two mics on an amp, overheads etc
so in that quad tracked chug section all guitars are hard panned?
They were, but you can experiment with panning as to what sounds best to you and the project
@spinlightstudios yea I've played around, I was just wondering how you did those. thanks man
What do you put on your rhythm guitar bus?
Usually just EQ, maybe some compression. But usually I’ll compress the individual tracks if it needs it.
Can you help me clarifying some signal chain issues? If it's really an issue...
I have my guitar plugged DI, and running an amp sim on my daw. On track 1 I have the amp sim, but the output of track 1 I have to another track. The input of the 2nd track is the output of track 1 with the amp sim printing onto the second track. The output of track 2 goes out the master out. This way I can record them turn off and mute the di and plugin track to work with just audio. (Although it prints to a stereo sign wave.)
Does this signal path make sense or should I just have one track with the di signal and the amp sim plugin?
Are you doing this so you can record the amp sim as you’re playing? Or are you recording it to a new channel once you are done?
Are you experience any latency if so?
I would generally just track the di and listen to the amp sim - once finished bounce the amp sim in place (render is as an audio file). It’s the same as what you are doing but just making it an audio file with the amp tone written to it at the end.
@@spinlightstudios yea. recording the amp sim as im playing. I've already gone through and dialed in a tone that I am happy with and saved as a preset with all the effects and processing I want done on it. So really no need for me to check or tweak around with any of the amp settings. I was just curious if there were any drawbacks or issues doing it this way compared to the more traditional way of recording then bounce after.
@ only drawback would be if there was latency effecting your playing, otherwise shouldn’t be an issue
@@spinlightstudios so far none that I've come across. Thank you so much for the response and help clarifying this up! Much appreciated 🙏🏽
Bro do a full mix vid on this song.
I’ll think about it!