Lucifer was never ignoring Charlie, he literally thought *she didn’t want to see him* which is where a huge chunk of that depression came from. It was a huge miscommunication from both of them.
he was actually probably right. after all, she never initiated contact, and only turned to him, against her preference, out of total desperation. he respected her boundaries, as one is supposed to do when one's loved ones go no-contact.
Lucifer is presented as suffering from depression. One symptom of depression is the belief that no one wants to be around the sufferer, and that everyone would just be better off if the patient wasn't in contact. It's really hard to break that belief.
Lucifer is really quite misunderstood. One can't forget that he was forced to only see the worst of humanity, never the best. That led him to become skepitcal about redemption and dwell in guilt and regret over being the reason why humanity was tainted with evil, leading to his depression which only agravated after his wife and daughter left. Lucifer really wanted to reach up to Charlie, but he wanted her to want him around, so that's why he never called unless he needed it. He was waiting for her to call him. And regarding his initial refusal in helping her, it was because he feared Heaven would crush her dreams to dust the same way they did to him. He loves her daughter a lot and that's why
I have a friend who used to be a cop. This is one of the reasons he quite after years on the beat. Seeing the worse of people day in and day out can really affect a person. I couldn't imagine thousands of years of that.
There's a few factors to consider with Lucifer. One, he was cursed to only see the worst of what Free Will did for humanity, which basically broke him mentally and spiritually. Two, he's clinically depressed. Three, he shows several hallmarks of being at least mildly autistic. He's also viewing the sinners very much the way any other angel would. Don't forget that, fallen or not, he's still a seraph. By species alone, the angels in Heaven that cast him out are his people, not human souls.
Velvette is the demon of social media, with her dying not so long ago (perhaps at the first decade or the beginning of the second decade of the XXI century). Because of that, she is the youngest of the Overlords (both in age and experience). Not just that, but the Vees can be seen as being the youngest, being why Carmilla calls them "wannabes". And Velvette is also the reason why the Vees became a force to be acknowledged, because she is quite right when she said that she is the "backbone" of the Vees... as it is totally true. She is the glue that holds the trinity as, without her, Vox and Val would be in this constant on-and-off thing.
You know, Valentino is able to entice sinners with the pheromones (the smoke) he releases the same way male moths can attract female moths. That's actually how he manages to make contracts. His pheromones are more stronger at his saliva, being why he licks instead of kissing. When he licked Charlie's arm, he was trying to entice her, failing because Charlie is imune. And it's said that his pheromones are the main ingredient to the love potions that Velvette sells.
Speaking as someone with a partner, protecting each other is absolutely part of it. My wife and I have the privilege that we rarely need to protect ourselves, but it has happened and I had to get between her and the danger. When I was hurt while working, she protected me in many ways too. For people in less safe places around the world where the average person has to face violence at least once, protection can be a huge part of partnerships like friendships and romantic relationships. Given Hell's many constant threats, Vaggie's personal background, and how that informs her unique perspective of those threats, it's completely understandable that this hotel is a way for her to protect Charlie from both Heaven and powerful demons like Alastor.
I'm guessing you and your partner are together for many reasons and being with someone it's natural to want to protect them. The difference (again guessing) in your and your partners relationship and how Vaggie views her and Charlie's is you aren't SOLELY with your partner for protection. Vaggie mentioned that shes supposed to protect Charlie and when Vaggie took control it went sideways. Vaggie then questioned "the point of her", then she sings a song about being Charlie's Armor (showing Vaggie thinks the has no use to Charlie other than protecting her) I completely understand her wanting to protect Charlie but to Charlie, Vaggies "point" is not protection. They are together for so many reasons, protection only being one of these reasons (if it's a reason at all) What I wish is that Vaggie would have realised this (and yes I am aware of Vaggies background) Which is why I said that Charlie isn't only with her for protection.
@@DeashasAlwaysWatching sharing a but I hope it helps. That's complicated. I relate because when I got hurt, I couldn't do many chores, especially my cooking which is something I know she looks forward to. She was understanding, but it was a serious burden and it took a toll on her. I had one or two private pity sessions like Vaggie, thinking she would have been happier or at least better off with some else in those moments. It's not that I thought I was a useless because I couldn't cook/clean much, but I couldn't meet on of her very reasonable needs: help keeping our home running. If I didn't meet all of her needs, what kind of relationship was I asking her to be part of? I knew even then that it wasn't true and I am past that now, but it's a real feeling. Vaggie is there for more than just Charlie's protection, but Vaggie believes Charlie needs a kind of protection that she can't provide. For Vaggie in that moment, if she can't help Charlie realize her goals, is she really a partner lifting Charlie up, or is she using her? That's a scary self-doubt. With time I got over it, and Vaggie did too when she saw that her bonding exercise worked. It's a very understandable struggle, especially with Vaggie's apparent military background. The ability to protect people is a big part of where her sense of self-worth comes from.
@@DeashasAlwaysWatching more to your point about the lyrics, she also says she'll spend her life being Charlie's partner. The song isn't about her having no point. It's her processing her insecurities and reaffirming her commitment to Charlie, just as Carmilla is reaffirming her commitment to her daughters.
i was waiting for this one!! found your channel from your first hazbin reaction and so glad i did! going through your old videos i see i have plenty to catch up on with other shows. love your reactions so far! 😊
"Forgot for a second that he is still Satan." No he's Lucifer. Satan is a completely different character. Both in the show, and in the bible. It was only in recent versions of Christianity that the seven princes of Hell were combined into one singular devil. This series goes with the old interpretation with the seven princes. You meet some of the others in Helluva Boss.
'originally' neither are princes of hell, fallen angels, or demons. 'satan' just means 'enemy' and was used to describe, e.g. king david as a 'satan' to israel's foes. the closest it gets to a demon is in job, where 'the satan' is a job occupied by one of god's servants, who accuses, punishes, and tests people on behalf of god. 'lucifer' is the latin translation of a word that means 'morning star', which is used both sincerely to refer to jesus in the nt and sarcastically in isaiah to mock the king of babylon (this is the passage christians take out of context to invent the fallen angel character).
Also in different Religions, Lucifer is worshiped as equally as God is. For example, the Gnostics worship both Jehovah and Lucifer as they see Jehovah as the God or Order and Structure and Lucifer as the God of Chaos and Free Will.
Regarding eggboi redemption, they are not actually sapient beings that can be reedeemed. They are constructs, inanimate objects given life using magic. In this case they were created by Baxter, an old friend of Sir Pentious who won't show up until season 2. Other constructs include the cat KeeKee, and Charlie's bodyguards, Razzle and Dazzle, who Lucifer created using two of her favorite plushies.
If it weren't for Lucifer, everyone in Hell would have been targets of the extermination, it was because of Lucifer that Hellborns, which are demons born in hell, aren't targeted by the angels. Only sinners, humans that ended up in hell, are targeted during the extermination, the angels aren't allowed to touch Charlie or any of the Hellborns
Yes, Charlie implied that he let it happen, but he likely had no choice. Negotiating the hellborn be spared was probably the best he could have hoped for without an outright rebellion.
I've heard theories on Nif. First off I love her. I noticed that (and heard) that if your soul is owned your eyes are black. Hers aren't. This suggests that Alistor doesn't own her, she just likes it. My guess on Nif is that she was a housewife in the 50's. Her husband was cheating, she knew but was in denial, thought if she was a better housewife he'd love her. Eventually he left her and she killed herself. It explains her need to clean and her fascination with control and tolerance for suffering.
I really like Alastor, he is my Fav and i am happy you dont antagonist him. Many People goes in the Moment Lucifer appeard against him. Was he honest in his Song? I dont think so, but he was there, and Lucifer not. And that is the true. Alastor plotting something, sure, but we have no hint it would harmed the Hotel or Charlie. So, yes i like Lucifer, but Alastor stayed my fav.
Nobody was prepared for Masquerade. I mean, we kinda were with Addict, but also kinda not at the same time. It took me several watch throughs for my anger to simmer to a boiling rage for Valentino...
What you saw in Alastor's room was not actually his room. Much like the bar in the lobby, which he brought in there by warping space within hell, in his room, he brought the swamps of the living world to his room. It is not decoration but a literal portal to our world. The fireflies and the living world deer he eats are the clue to this. It is not really mentioned yet in the show but it seems Alastor is one of the few sinners capable of leaving hell for a limited amount of time to strike deals with living souls to grow his own power. The only hint we get to this is in the Rosie episode and the gossip she offers him there.
People are far too soon to jump on the train that lucifer was somehow the problem. If anything, episode 5 showed us that he was a good father who wanted to be close to his daughter. It was charlie who didn't try to get close to him. As lucifer said to himself, "This is the first time she's called you in ages!" Plus, episode 1 established early on that heaven punished him to only see the bad of humanity. That's why he said "our people are awful! They got guided free will and look what they food with it. everything's terrible". So not only does he think his daughter doesn't want to see him, but he's spent the last 10,000+ years surrounded by a constant reminder that what he did was wrong
i hate this show because my instinct is to see it as Tumblr cringe to the nth degree but i rly do care about these characters through listening to the podcasts and the original pilot. it feels so weird having the emotional attachment hang by a thread but that thread being impossible to cut. i love angel and have always and will always be interested in alastor regardless of how shallow and meh they are as written characters
Honestly how I feel about this show, usually this "theater kid/tumblr/make everyone gay fanfic" type stuff doesnt really do it for me, but the songs are good, the characters are interesting and the writing is actually pretty good. There are moments here and there that irk me a little bit ("You're the first man, that explains so much" for example.) and some of the the fanbase's handling of it makes me want to distance myself the way I enjoyed harry potter movies but don't call myself a fan bc of what "Harry Potter Fan" has become bc of the fanbase, but all in all, this has been a great show thus far. I'm truly conflicted on Alistor, both loving his design and his character but not knowing whether to "trust" him or not. The romances we do see are absolutely adorable and there's even an honest depiction of brotherhood in the show (even if most of the fanbase think it nudges towards guys caring for eachother meaning they want to fuck). I haven't seen anything outside the show, but this has done a wonderful job of making a show with modern themes (something I usually detest bc I don't care for modern culture, actually its made Alistor grow on me in some ways due to the similar position) that doesn't immediately turn me off to it.
Lucifer was never ignoring Charlie, he literally thought *she didn’t want to see him* which is where a huge chunk of that depression came from. It was a huge miscommunication from both of them.
he was actually probably right. after all, she never initiated contact, and only turned to him, against her preference, out of total desperation.
he respected her boundaries, as one is supposed to do when one's loved ones go no-contact.
@@joshridinger3407 i was trying to give charlie some leeway but you’re so correct 😭😭
its silly but sometimes major rifts can form from just a few unsaid words
Lucifer is presented as suffering from depression. One symptom of depression is the belief that no one wants to be around the sufferer, and that everyone would just be better off if the patient wasn't in contact. It's really hard to break that belief.
Lucifer is really quite misunderstood. One can't forget that he was forced to only see the worst of humanity, never the best. That led him to become skepitcal about redemption and dwell in guilt and regret over being the reason why humanity was tainted with evil, leading to his depression which only agravated after his wife and daughter left. Lucifer really wanted to reach up to Charlie, but he wanted her to want him around, so that's why he never called unless he needed it. He was waiting for her to call him. And regarding his initial refusal in helping her, it was because he feared Heaven would crush her dreams to dust the same way they did to him. He loves her daughter a lot and that's why
I have a friend who used to be a cop. This is one of the reasons he quite after years on the beat. Seeing the worse of people day in and day out can really affect a person. I couldn't imagine thousands of years of that.
“More Than Anything” is my favourite song
There's a few factors to consider with Lucifer. One, he was cursed to only see the worst of what Free Will did for humanity, which basically broke him mentally and spiritually. Two, he's clinically depressed. Three, he shows several hallmarks of being at least mildly autistic.
He's also viewing the sinners very much the way any other angel would. Don't forget that, fallen or not, he's still a seraph. By species alone, the angels in Heaven that cast him out are his people, not human souls.
Velvette is the demon of social media, with her dying not so long ago (perhaps at the first decade or the beginning of the second decade of the XXI century). Because of that, she is the youngest of the Overlords (both in age and experience). Not just that, but the Vees can be seen as being the youngest, being why Carmilla calls them "wannabes". And Velvette is also the reason why the Vees became a force to be acknowledged, because she is quite right when she said that she is the "backbone" of the Vees... as it is totally true. She is the glue that holds the trinity as, without her, Vox and Val would be in this constant on-and-off thing.
There is also a song called Addict that also takes place before Masquerade and after the Pilot!
It’s worth a listen.
You know, Valentino is able to entice sinners with the pheromones (the smoke) he releases the same way male moths can attract female moths. That's actually how he manages to make contracts. His pheromones are more stronger at his saliva, being why he licks instead of kissing. When he licked Charlie's arm, he was trying to entice her, failing because Charlie is imune. And it's said that his pheromones are the main ingredient to the love potions that Velvette sells.
Speaking as someone with a partner, protecting each other is absolutely part of it. My wife and I have the privilege that we rarely need to protect ourselves, but it has happened and I had to get between her and the danger. When I was hurt while working, she protected me in many ways too. For people in less safe places around the world where the average person has to face violence at least once, protection can be a huge part of partnerships like friendships and romantic relationships.
Given Hell's many constant threats, Vaggie's personal background, and how that informs her unique perspective of those threats, it's completely understandable that this hotel is a way for her to protect Charlie from both Heaven and powerful demons like Alastor.
I'm guessing you and your partner are together for many reasons and being with someone it's natural to want to protect them. The difference (again guessing) in your and your partners relationship and how Vaggie views her and Charlie's is you aren't SOLELY with your partner for protection.
Vaggie mentioned that shes supposed to protect Charlie and when Vaggie took control it went sideways. Vaggie then questioned "the point of her", then she sings a song about being Charlie's Armor (showing Vaggie thinks the has no use to Charlie other than protecting her)
I completely understand her wanting to protect Charlie but to Charlie, Vaggies "point" is not protection. They are together for so many reasons, protection only being one of these reasons (if it's a reason at all) What I wish is that Vaggie would have realised this (and yes I am aware of Vaggies background) Which is why I said that Charlie isn't only with her for protection.
@@DeashasAlwaysWatching sharing a but I hope it helps.
That's complicated. I relate because when I got hurt, I couldn't do many chores, especially my cooking which is something I know she looks forward to. She was understanding, but it was a serious burden and it took a toll on her. I had one or two private pity sessions like Vaggie, thinking she would have been happier or at least better off with some else in those moments. It's not that I thought I was a useless because I couldn't cook/clean much, but I couldn't meet on of her very reasonable needs: help keeping our home running. If I didn't meet all of her needs, what kind of relationship was I asking her to be part of? I knew even then that it wasn't true and I am past that now, but it's a real feeling. Vaggie is there for more than just Charlie's protection, but Vaggie believes Charlie needs a kind of protection that she can't provide. For Vaggie in that moment, if she can't help Charlie realize her goals, is she really a partner lifting Charlie up, or is she using her? That's a scary self-doubt.
With time I got over it, and Vaggie did too when she saw that her bonding exercise worked. It's a very understandable struggle, especially with Vaggie's apparent military background. The ability to protect people is a big part of where her sense of self-worth comes from.
@@DeashasAlwaysWatching more to your point about the lyrics, she also says she'll spend her life being Charlie's partner. The song isn't about her having no point. It's her processing her insecurities and reaffirming her commitment to Charlie, just as Carmilla is reaffirming her commitment to her daughters.
I love Husker-Dust. One of my all-time favorite unexpected team-ups.
i was waiting for this one!! found your channel from your first hazbin reaction and so glad i did! going through your old videos i see i have plenty to catch up on with other shows. love your reactions so far! 😊
"Forgot for a second that he is still Satan." No he's Lucifer. Satan is a completely different character. Both in the show, and in the bible. It was only in recent versions of Christianity that the seven princes of Hell were combined into one singular devil. This series goes with the old interpretation with the seven princes. You meet some of the others in Helluva Boss.
'originally' neither are princes of hell, fallen angels, or demons. 'satan' just means 'enemy' and was used to describe, e.g. king david as a 'satan' to israel's foes. the closest it gets to a demon is in job, where 'the satan' is a job occupied by one of god's servants, who accuses, punishes, and tests people on behalf of god.
'lucifer' is the latin translation of a word that means 'morning star', which is used both sincerely to refer to jesus in the nt and sarcastically in isaiah to mock the king of babylon (this is the passage christians take out of context to invent the fallen angel character).
Also in different Religions, Lucifer is worshiped as equally as God is. For example, the Gnostics worship both Jehovah and Lucifer as they see Jehovah as the God or Order and Structure and Lucifer as the God of Chaos and Free Will.
Regarding eggboi redemption, they are not actually sapient beings that can be reedeemed. They are constructs, inanimate objects given life using magic. In this case they were created by Baxter, an old friend of Sir Pentious who won't show up until season 2.
Other constructs include the cat KeeKee, and Charlie's bodyguards, Razzle and Dazzle, who Lucifer created using two of her favorite plushies.
If it weren't for Lucifer, everyone in Hell would have been targets of the extermination, it was because of Lucifer that Hellborns, which are demons born in hell, aren't targeted by the angels. Only sinners, humans that ended up in hell, are targeted during the extermination, the angels aren't allowed to touch Charlie or any of the Hellborns
Yes, Charlie implied that he let it happen, but he likely had no choice. Negotiating the hellborn be spared was probably the best he could have hoped for without an outright rebellion.
I've heard theories on Nif. First off I love her. I noticed that (and heard) that if your soul is owned your eyes are black. Hers aren't. This suggests that Alistor doesn't own her, she just likes it. My guess on Nif is that she was a housewife in the 50's. Her husband was cheating, she knew but was in denial, thought if she was a better housewife he'd love her. Eventually he left her and she killed herself. It explains her need to clean and her fascination with control and tolerance for suffering.
Velvette is the youngest Overlord in Hell. she is also the youngest of the Vee's. so her behavior is very appropriate for her
I really like Alastor, he is my Fav and i am happy you dont antagonist him. Many People goes in the Moment Lucifer appeard against him. Was he honest in his Song? I dont think so, but he was there, and Lucifer not. And that is the true. Alastor plotting something, sure, but we have no hint it would harmed the Hotel or Charlie. So, yes i like Lucifer, but Alastor stayed my fav.
Nobody was prepared for Masquerade. I mean, we kinda were with Addict, but also kinda not at the same time. It took me several watch throughs for my anger to simmer to a boiling rage for Valentino...
What you saw in Alastor's room was not actually his room. Much like the bar in the lobby, which he brought in there by warping space within hell, in his room, he brought the swamps of the living world to his room. It is not decoration but a literal portal to our world. The fireflies and the living world deer he eats are the clue to this.
It is not really mentioned yet in the show but it seems Alastor is one of the few sinners capable of leaving hell for a limited amount of time to strike deals with living souls to grow his own power. The only hint we get to this is in the Rosie episode and the gossip she offers him there.
i love the helmeppo laugh censuring the swear word XD
21:34. All I want is for someone to look at me, the way Vaggie looks at Charlie.
Lucifer and Satan are not the same being.
Poison is my favorite song. So painful and honest.
While all of the songs in this show are bangers, my favorite has to be Loser baby. Talk about owning your faults and shortcomings.
People are far too soon to jump on the train that lucifer was somehow the problem. If anything, episode 5 showed us that he was a good father who wanted to be close to his daughter. It was charlie who didn't try to get close to him. As lucifer said to himself, "This is the first time she's called you in ages!"
Plus, episode 1 established early on that heaven punished him to only see the bad of humanity. That's why he said "our people are awful! They got guided free will and look what they food with it. everything's terrible".
So not only does he think his daughter doesn't want to see him, but he's spent the last 10,000+ years surrounded by a constant reminder that what he did was wrong
"But he's a dramatic asshole, so I kind of like him a lot."
You're going to be changing your opinion very soon.
Not sure ic realised later but yes conteacts are soul conteacts in hell your soul is owned
Would you be interested in reacting to?These 2 cartoon series mighty ducks and road rovers.They're both very good show
i hate this show because my instinct is to see it as Tumblr cringe to the nth degree but i rly do care about these characters through listening to the podcasts and the original pilot. it feels so weird having the emotional attachment hang by a thread but that thread being impossible to cut. i love angel and have always and will always be interested in alastor regardless of how shallow and meh they are as written characters
Honestly how I feel about this show, usually this "theater kid/tumblr/make everyone gay fanfic" type stuff doesnt really do it for me, but the songs are good, the characters are interesting and the writing is actually pretty good. There are moments here and there that irk me a little bit ("You're the first man, that explains so much" for example.) and some of the the fanbase's handling of it makes me want to distance myself the way I enjoyed harry potter movies but don't call myself a fan bc of what "Harry Potter Fan" has become bc of the fanbase, but all in all, this has been a great show thus far. I'm truly conflicted on Alistor, both loving his design and his character but not knowing whether to "trust" him or not. The romances we do see are absolutely adorable and there's even an honest depiction of brotherhood in the show (even if most of the fanbase think it nudges towards guys caring for eachother meaning they want to fuck). I haven't seen anything outside the show, but this has done a wonderful job of making a show with modern themes (something I usually detest bc I don't care for modern culture, actually its made Alistor grow on me in some ways due to the similar position) that doesn't immediately turn me off to it.
React to talk tuah podcast for rizz