Dr Matt your videos are absolutely brilliant. I've only been honing for nearly 2 years and I predominantly use synthetics and an Arkansas black. Today I ordered my first Coticule and just happened to stumble onto this video and I'm really glad that I did. Thank you so very much!
I went through this...I like the line, “ I’m back in the coticule game! “ ! This is a great series of videos if you want to understand coticule stone sharpening. Thanks Dr. Matt.
You sir are an extremely intelligent man!! I appreciate your dedication and perseverance. Also, thank you for your offer at the end of the video. I am an injured US Marine and appreciate the support.
That's very nice of you Jason although my wife would beg to differ with you on the intelligent part. I thank you for your service and if there's anything I can do for you, just let me know.
Sir, I cannot thank you enough for this video. Using your technique, I was able to do in a day what I couldn't do in several years of failed coticule honing attempts. A tip of the hat to you.
You're welcome Chris and glad I was able to help. You may want to watch the 4th part if you haven't already on problematic stones. I modify this slightly if you have a stone that's difficult to get a handle on.
Thank you for introducing this method to the public! I have several coticules of different layers and struggled to get good edges from them. This method appeals to me because it makes sense and is simple. There is no "magic touch" required as with some other methods ;-) I have tried your method using several razors (old and new). The old razors wouldn't stick to the coticule, but the new one (Dovo) did because it sits flat on the hone. Feedback from the stone (La Grise) was very direct and getting the razor to stick was easy. Before going to the coticule I used a Naniwa SS 8000. I had two shaves, and now I understand why coticules edges are classified as "skin friendly"! The edges weren't super sharp but I think that can be improved a lot by practicing. I am really happy with the result and keen on trying my other coticules now (latneuses and dressante).
I ran across Dr Matt about 8 months ago and have followed him since. He has honed four of my razor, one which needed some serious work. I've had a few others hone some razor but Dr Matt puts what I consider a crazy edge on a razor. I'm talking crazy sharp! When I seen this video I jumped at the offer and got a free honing. Shaved with it tonight and as always it provided a smooth effortlessly shave. Thanks Dr Matt.
Mark Dayoc Thanks Mark. Mark does a great job with videos. If you want to watch him shave with the razor I honed using this no slurry method, check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/r5848Q2KjKw/v-deo.html
What a super helpful series of videos, thank you Dr Matt. I was groping around in the dark before stumbling across these videos. They’ve really helped me to get great edges from my little piece of coticule👍👍
Wasn't sure about this advice, then you pulled out the Motogp Casey Stoner comparison and I knew this was someone who knows what he's talking about, thanks :)
I'm so pleased that you did not give up on your goals perfection. The first time I used a slurry stone on my Cuticule it wrecked my edge. Ill never use a slurry stone again. Thanks for sharing.
@@drmatt357 OHHHHH! I´m not even half way done benefiting! I only wanted to hone my razor at least once! I never thought that a real master would share his knolege freely on UA-cam! As a professional metal worker(and after some more of your videos) I have to say: You realy are a master, if not more!
Thank you so much!!!! I have been pretty dead in the water with this and getting very frustrated after buying a coticule in hopes to keep my razor up to snuff, and have just been irritating my face pretty bad. I am very grateful for this video!!!!
Thank you. I feel vindicated as a lot of guys don't like these stones on the forums. I always get great coticule edges but have always used a slurry method. I will definitely try this.
Great video. I stayed to watch the whole thing. Out of all the great points my favourite thing in the whole video was "misty slurry dude" I burst out laughing. Seriously though after struggling for months with coticule edges trying a one stone method I can't wait to give your method a try. I will definitely be putting a stone before the coticule and after the bevel set. I'm thinking 1k bevel set, to broken in washita then to the coticule. I've got a 3/8 k combo stone but don't like using it that much. More of a natural guy but welcome to the 21st century and maybe that would be the right place to start. I don't have a fancy microscope but I have a sharpie to tell me I'm doing right. Also I thought I should mention that some coticules have more "stiction" then others. I've got a la grise that is soapy feeling and sticks sooner then the harder la dressante I've got. Thanks Matt!
+Scott Archi Yes, glad you got the Fast Times reference. I cracked up doing it. Don't need a scope and yes, some stones stick more than others. Let us know how you make out.
Cheers for this video, I also understand the principal of getting all you can from any stone and not giving up when you don't know what the problem is. I have a high finishing welsh slate from a guy (AJ) approx 15k he says and sells them on eBay, although to get 15k's worth from the slate is possibly an overstatement I have gotten quite good edges from it, ha, the thing is when it started sticking I did not continue honing as I thought the edge was digging into the slate and possibly damaging the edge, I was light as a feather, taking my time at the end to achieve this but thought the slate maybe too soft or something, now I will keep it going until it feels like this as you described knowing it could also be a good thing with the slate. I will let you know if I get better results. I have read and heard so much mixed results with coticules, hard getting a good one and so on that it had put me off them and an escher is a bit out of my reach at the moment, at least an original ;) Thanks again.
Hahaha Dr. Matt kicks ass! 😆😂💪🏻 Wow man i gotta say this is the first time i saw you rocking a suit & tie. I guess i shouldn’t be surprised though you are a Doc after all so. Anyway i really enjoyed the video thanks for another helpful lesson bud.
+caleb McCullough (Blistersteel) This is funny Caleb. Now that I've gotten to know you a little more, this has to be the most animated I've seen you yet!
It was an important point for me,I had just finished trying to use my 13th coticule and it was nice to see someone coming forward and saying what I was thinking. Now I use a light oil on most of my coticules and the difference is night and day in difference of the edges. I had just read napoleon's little book where he called coticules oilstones and recommended using sperm whale oil on them. I appreciate the videos you make and the thoughts you share.cheers Dr matt.
It's a Veho 400 power and can be had here: amzn.to/10TEhXC If you're really interested in microscopes, stay tuned to my channel because i'm testing a company's microscope and will have a video out shortly with my findings. If it continues on as some of the preliminary things I've seen, it will be a Game Changer!
hi dr matt a friend of mine suggested i watch your video on cotucule stones and must say your explanation is grest i have a cotucule on order so will be great to learn your way on doing it. what 5k stone do you use on beval setting. ir do you use a 3k. thamks for the upload really interesting . your magnifier do you use on your laptop only like to invest in one to see how i get on.
If I bevel set Mark, I'm down at a 1K level. I think you're asking what is the brand of 5K stone I use just prior to the coticule. It's a Shapton. I have a 4th part to this series on problematic stones where I suggest going to an 8K stone then the coticule. At this point, that's pretty much what I do on all my razors anyway since 8K is all I really need to bring the edge back after many uses.
Great video as always! Im thinking of getting a coticle. Thats great to hear i can use with no slurry. IMO to a slurry can and will damage an edge. Are you talking about a reg yellow coticle? Does it have a hybrid coticle on the back? ive read about a hybrid coticle and some say it steps up the refinement a little more after the yellow.
There's 2 main types, a natural combo and glued. The natural has a "natural" backing that it was mined from the ground with. If you look at it from the side, you'll see the line of demarcation is a bit wavey. The backside is BBW or Belgian Blue. It's usually used a a pre-finisher. Haven't heard of it used after the coticule but this is the internet. ;-) The glued ones have a slate backing that is glued to the coticule for structural stability but is pretty much useless for sharpening anything on.
Michael Chance Thats a different animal. That's what's called a Les Lat hybrid. Les Lat is the layer and the one side is a normal coti like but the hybrid side is a beautiful swirled mix of the LL and something else. I'm not really sure what but they are wonderful stones and most give great edges. They're also pretty pricey.
Where to buy a razor grade coticle? Ive read that some are not fine vs others. Ive been reading all the coticle terminologies are confusing such as different veins and mines ect..
It can be confusing. I prefer the vintage stones. They were mined before they gave them names. I seem to have the most luck with them. You have to get a stone from someone that has tested them on razors.
thanks dr matt. just received my stone and boy its not easy at all. 2 hours later and still didn't get anywhere. so gave up and went on a jnat stone leval 5. i have so much to learn great video by the way. your a funny guy. i couldn't stop laughing. . just brilliant
Doc, coti's are used in two ways: 1. as a lower grit stone (1k, 2k, 3k, 5k) 2. As a finishing stone. The rule has always been simple: When you're using your coti as a lower grit stone, you use slurry. When you're using your coti as a finishing stone, you don't use slurry. This isn't some big discovery, it's just as it has always been. I'm not sure what your big break through is? Here's two different hone progressions: 1. I take my razor from bevel setting on my 1k, then 2k, then 3k, then 5k, and then I finish with water only on a coticule. Pretty common progression. 2. I take my razor from bevel setting to finish on a coticule, starting with heavy slurry to set the bevel, and then progressively lighter slurries until I'm finishing on water only. Both of those are very common. Again, where's the break through? Your video makes me think you were trying to use your coti as a finishing stone, but you were using slurry??? And then you discovered the use of just water only as a finisher? Sorry, Doc, but using water only on a coticule as a finisher isn't anything new under the sun. : )
Well, these videos have been up for 4 years and you're the first one to come up with some shitty comments (that got flagged BTW as possible spam because you don't use any real names on your account) but honestly, I'm surprised it took that long. The most common way is the Dulucot method where you start with a slurry and water it down to clear water. I never had luck with that as I said in the video, the slurry did more damage than solutions it created. I also said I didn't invent this technique as Paco talked of it on B&B and years ago you never even got a slurry stone with cotis. That didn't start until Eschers became popular. If the no slurry technique is so common, and use the 2-3-5 synthetic prior to the coti with plain water, send me all the links and references to someone showing the technique. Certainly nowhere to be found on Coticule.be... But then again, I did state that I'm not good with cotis and guys like you know way more so you're welcome to post the links to your vids.
@@drmatt357 Coticule.be has been down for six months. As to the plain water on coticule method after a normal progression, just look at sharp razor palace. You'll find many old posts about plain water on a coti. Why do you think coti's didn't come with slurry stones? They were used as finishers with water. I'm not exactly sure why you are getting your hackles up so badly about my posts. Nothing here was meant to offend, just inform. Since you've taken my posts so offensively, allow me to apologize.
@@drmatt357 After reading back through all of the comments I've made on your videos, I do honestly believe I owe you an apology. I was definitely too strong worded, and not just a little bit belittling (see what I did there?). I'm very sorry we've gotten off on the wrong foot. Even worse, it was my own fault. I sincerely apologize for being so offensive, Doc. Just to let you know, I do really enjoy your channel. In fact, I think I've actually dropped a *positive* (if you can believe that) comment on a few of your videos. I, too, am a gun advocate. I reload everything I shoot, as well. So we do share similar hobbies, and think we'd probably get along very well if we met in real life. So please allow me to start over again.... Doc, I really enjoy your channel, keep up the good work, and I'll be much less offensive when we take different sides of an issue in the future. After all, we are on the same team here. I was lucky enough to pick up a La Verte (I'm probably spelling that wrong) coticule from Ardennes back in 2008. It's a natural coticule/BBW combination stone, green in color, hence the name. It is a fantastic finisher. I also have a vintage "Pike" brand coti that I bought around the same time. It's an extremely fast coticule, and just a joy to use. Unfortunately, one of the edges is getting quite thin, so it's pretty much a garage queen now. I feel like I got lucky, in that I was able to stop collecting coti's at two, as I got one of each type I was shooting for. Anyway, I'll stop rambling around here. Keep up the good content, Doc.
Hi dr Matt I picked up a coti at an antique shop but it's definitely not a finisher it's smooth as glass tried everything heavy slurry no slurry could it be its just not a finisher it gives a smooth edge but doesn't shave well it's 7" long by 1/12" wide ty
are the images shown before or after stropping? also, do you use .15 micron diamond or CrOx in the stropping sequence? so, are the images net of leather stropping only, or a combination of diamond /CrOx and leather?
Are your edges at the same level of a surgeon's scapel? Also, I'm hoping you cover various tests of how to rate edge performance. Currently my test for the best edge i can produce is by shaving a patch of leg hair against the grain, where i should not feel any sensation of hair being removed. A greater test my edges cannot overcome is shaving a patch of my buzzed head cleanly in one pass. Longer hair seems to be easier to shave, but the buzzed haircut seems to present much difficulty for my edges. Also shaving the head requires a much sharper edge to compensate for the lack of precise angling of the razor which is easier to achieve shaving a face.
COMB0RICO - The best test to rate edge performance is the shave test. Sharp is easy. The trick is o create an edge that will cut whiskers yet not remove and/or irritate your skin. Always a fine balance and everyone has their own place on the spectrum.
How do you compare a coticule to a hard black Arkansas? I typically start with a Naniwa 12k ss, then go to a hard black Arkansas, the Kanoyama. Just got my 1st Koraat yesterday .... what a joy to shave with!
Peder Halverson - I gather you mean a surgical black. There are translucent blacks also. They’re stupid hard and very fine edge. A surgical black ark I believe gives a sharper edge than a coticule but not as sharp as a trans ark. I admittedly don’t have much experience with them.
The grades are somewhat confusing based on who’s selling. I use a hard black from Ken’s. I can get an awesome edge from everything, but my Dovo Envogue .... VERY stubborn razor. The coticule is intriguing though. Awesome vids DrMatt! 👍
Joe Jackson - it’s personal preference. I really like stones about 1.5” by 6-7”. That’s 40mm X 150-175mm. The bigger they get, the price goes up exponentially.
This may be of value to people looking for good information on Coticule. From www coticule be How does a Belgian Blue Whetstone compare to a Coticule? (a story about garnets) The Belgian hones (Coticule and Belgian Blue Whetstone, commonly abbreviated to BBW) are very closely related. They are mined together. Actually is is impossible to extract any Coticule without also extracting massive amounts of BBW. Traditionally, Coticules were always backed by a piece of BBW. Some bonded together by nature, but most of them glued together by man. The main reason for this is to reinforce the Coticule part with the stronger Blue stone. Nowadays, Coticules are backed with a piece of Portuguese Slate, because it is more cost-effective to use easily available slate tiles for backing a Coticule than to produce labor intensive backing stones out of BBW rocks. The BBW stones are now sold separately, because they posses honing qualities of their own. Both the Begian hones are used with "slurry" This is an abrasive milk raised on top of the hone by moistening the surface with water and rubbing it with a small piece of Coticule/BBW The slurry of the Belgian hones contains spessartine garnets. These garnets are extremely hard mono-crystals with a very typical shape. Highly magnified representation of a Spessartine Garnet They are hard enough to scratch steel. A slurry is not made of garnets only. It also contains water (obviously), and a great deal of phyllosilicates. Phyllosilicates are minerals that are much softer than steel. These minerals bonded the garnets together before they were abraded off the stone by rubbing with the slurry stone. On a hypothetical note, that explains what we have found in frequent observations, small garnets can easily sink in the steel. Larger garnets can't sink so deep in the steel, because the honing pressure is spread out over a wider surface area. Try scratching a table with a spoon. Now try the same with a fork (Don't send your wife or mother to me when you run into trouble over this important experiment;-)) Back to the garnets: with the size of the segments at the garnets' surface being roughly the same, smaller garnets are less rounded than larger garnets. That makes smaller garnets more "spiky". Conclusion: large garnets leave slightly wider but also more shallow scratches, while small garnets cut more aggressively and deeper. Coticules contain a high concentration of small garnets (5 to 15 micron in diameter): up to 40% of the entire volume of the rock. BBWs contain a lower concentration of wider garnets (10 to 25 micron in diameter): up to 25% of the entire volume of the rock. That makes BBW's slower than Coticules and if we are aiming for serious steel removal during the first stages of honing, the average Coticule will perform a great deal faster than any BBW. Hence, if the choice to do serious bevel correction is between Coticule and BBW, pick the Coticule. But there's more to the picture: The loose garnets in the slurry also abrade the very edge, while it plows through the fluid. The thicker the fluid, the higher the concentration of garnets (less water) and the more the thinnest part of the edge deteriorates from the impact with the garnets. That is a dulling action. At the same time, the garnets remove steel from the bevel sides, which is a sharpening action. As long as the edge is not very sharp earlier during the honing process, the dulling effect is negligible, because the tip is not as fragile. When the edge becomes sharper, the tip becomes more fragile and more prone to "slurry deterioration". At a given point, there's a limit where the edge looses as much keenness as it gains. You could hone the razor into oblivion and not ever get a sharper edge than this limit. One of the advantages is that you'll never "overhone" a razor on a Belgian slurry, allegedly a common danger on synthetic water hones. With normal pressure and regular razor honing methods, we have never been able to see any evidence of "overhoning" on the Belgian hones. At equal slurry thickness, a BBW with its lower concentration of less aggressive garnets, has a sharper limit than a Coticule. Of course you could use thinner slurry on a Coticule, but for the inexperienced user it's still easier getting more keenness of a BBW with slurry than hitting the same level on a Coticule with thinner slurry. With experience it can be done, however, and the BBW becomes pretty redundant for razor sharpening at that point. When no slurry is used, but plain water instead, we get a different story. The garnets remain halfway or more embedded in the surface of the hone. A Coticule with its small garnets in higher concentration offers a very finely textured surface. The BBW, having more sparsely spread bigger garnets offers a less fine surface. Both hones become very slow. The BBW becomes so slow, that it seems to loose most of it's honing qualities. It almost behaves like a piece of marble. It seems to very slowly dull the edge rather than sharpening it any further. That's why it is not recommended to dilute the slurry to plain water on a BBW. But Coticules just keeps on going, albeit at an extremely slow rate. No slurry, no slurry deterioration either. Obviously the edge won't gain sharpness infinitely. As with any hone there still is a limit. That limit is defined by how deep the hone cuts in the steel. A hone that digs 0.5 micron into the steel will never define an edge thinner than those 0.5 micron. That's one good reason to use minimal pressure during the final stages of honing. Coticules on water are slow. They remove almost no steel with each honing stroke. For that they can define very sharp edges. But they are so slow that it takes ages to catch up if you weren't already at a very decent keenness when you decided to start working on water only. A Coticule with water is a finishing hone. The majority of them can't be used to make up for much neglected keenness earlier on in the honing process. Last update on 2010-02-14 by Bart Torfs.
@20:45; Pressure is not force. For a given downward force, pressure is inversely proportional to the contact area, or the width of the bevel (assuming the force is distributed evenly between the bevel and the spine). I have a razor with a 0.1mm bevel and another with a 3mm bevel - for the same downward force, the pressure is 30x higher on the narrow bevel. If you want to quantify pressure, you need to provide both the force and the bevel width.
+scienceofsharp Thanks for this Todd. At first I thought you were just trying to break my balls but I've since read your blog and was fascinated and understand where you're coming from. Greatest razor stuff I've ever seen. Check your Google messages.
have you tried your coticule technique on jnat? I'm interested to see what will happen to the edge. hone with no slurry (i always knew that's the way to go, but i found with slurry, the edge is more aesthetically pleasing)
Matt, I really love your videos more and more, you're just doing great in honing teaching, and if there will be a school you definitly be the teacher I would choose in that school 😉.. Now.. I understood the stroping thing after each stone even the 5k..I understood that you're doing it not on leather but on linen right ?.. But you said another name I didn't get "swayve" or something like that... Could you explain me what is this other this your stroping with ?
Chris Picking - Thanks Chris. Only do about 6 passes on the strop between stones and it was suede I was talking about. I used that before I got a linen strop which is better.
Yes, at last I can hone my razors now! The tips you have given have made a huge difference. Basically, I was trying too hard, pressing too much and spending way too much time overhoning the blade. Your advice backed up with the microscope pictures has shown me the way. It seems that basic sharpness is achieved early in the honing process. I managed that on a Norton 4k/8k. No slurry on the coticule and very gentle strokes polishes the edge. It's so simple! Thanks again.
Read me Dr Matt357 When doing x strokes you get micro channel grooves that allow water to pass between the grooves of the razor and stone , water runs through easier due to the scratch lines running more straight like little streams but the razor will have deeper grooves than a circular motion , This makes it harder for the razor to have the suction effect because of air between the razor and stone` also get less suction when using tape because less of the blade edge to the spine is touching the stone due to the higher degree of the spine,the thing where the blade goes in between the lower parts where the garnets are not present and flex into the lower spots that why it sticks, may be not quite correct as the spine does not flex as its to thick, so its still goes on the printable that water fills the voids and pushes out the air that causes the suction , If you rub 2 hones together to flatten them ones they are flat they push out air and the slurry fills in any voids then they stick together as a suction has been produced , Doing circular strokes is more of a cutting and polishing effect water can not run fluent between razor and stone because the grooves in the razor are no longer straight so Even less water gets in between the stone and razor steel, witch will cause a more suction effect witch brings allot more of the razors edge touching the stone, Two ways your razor edge is sticking to the stone, water and air has been pushed out as you move the razors cutting edge causing suction but little micro water is filling in the minute divots in the razor and stone, due to less scratching in the blade and removing any micro particles from the stone that would keep the blade edge from having complete contact. The other method would be to build up of slurry that has no hard micro particle keeping the razor edge from making full contact to the stone , so if you think like a paste mixture ,where no air is in allowed to get between the blade and stone due to the slurry being smooth and creamy, this would cause a blade to drag and not glide but the blade is dragging on the slurry not as much on the stone.just like any muddy bank or thick quick sand , when you try to lift your wellington out of mud it sucks the dam thing of your foot,as you step in it pushes air out, causing a vacuum effect when lifting the boot, But having an edge so smooth could work against the cutting action ,their is that fine line, That`s why a couple of strokes doing x pattern at the end would benefit the razors edge in being stronger and staying sharper. Some grooves left in would act as release stresses between the metal and stop it from buckling under the pressure of cutting hair. When I say buckling what I mean is when a knife won`t cut but still has a keen edge, using a kitchen steel will straighten the blades edge on a knife, again. I hope all this makes sense to why some persons will use slurry and it will work to an extent and they would get the razor to suck to the stone ,but the razor is running on the slurry not the stone, but usually not get as good result as to running under water . Belgium coticule was encourage to make a slurry mix some years ago, The selling point was the garnets it release were shaped like an old football caser, The garnets roll with the blade rather than scratch deep into the metal
I am trying to learn using straight razors and honing them, can someone explain me what is this coticule. I cant find any informations what are they exactly
A coticule is a natural stone (mined) and mostly from Belgium. Different stones impart different feels to the edge. Each type has their fan club who claim they are the best. Coticules have a reputation for being very comfortable yet not very sharp. They're also know for being difficult to get an edge on hence the purpose of this series. Check here for tons of info: coticule.be/
During your videos you talk a lot about the way a razor adheres to the stone and starts to grab and stick. Have you heard of "gauge blocks"? They are so flat and finely lapped that they adhere to each other with incredible force. I thought you might be interested in checking them out.
drmatt357 They are used as a highly accurate standard form of measurement. Accuracy is +/- 1 millionth of an inch on average. The reason I mention them here is not about their intended purpose, but to relate the finish on your razors to the finish on the blocks. The blocks have the same tendency to stick together.
Why you do not use honer with Coticule ? you use with 5k Shapton you can run water and put it on angle if you like ro there is a reason to hold it in your hand?
@@genew7872 - The Coticules I use as finish stones so not as much work or leaning on them as a 5k or any of the other preceding synthetic stones. The Coticules are usually smaller and won’t fit in the holder but also on finish stones, I do this with the ILR too, when you hold them, the razor will make a better contact because your hand holding the stone can move also and conform to the edge... if that makes sense.
Ok Ta, It just I am sure that I recall you using 15K Naniwa super stone and Black Translucent or Surgical Ark on a stand and the Coti you using in the video is at least 7"x1 3/4" so could not figure out why :-) Or you are referring to the fact hat Germans in Solingen Neve use flat stone, they use an Ellipsoid shaped stone ?@@drmatt357
Of course, the slurry is BS. Doesnt make sense microscopically to drive free abrasive rocks against the edge. I hate coticules BTW. I've got two. One is like 400 grit with a much nicer dark side. Pretty soft though. The other could be really nice if it had no inclusions. I can lap it to a mirror shine - maybe 30k, 60k or more. The black dots in it are hard. I can feel these inclusions when sliding on it with an edge leading stroke. The only way to crush them is with a diamond plate and then the whole surface is only as smooth as my diamond plate grit. I could take it then on a carborundum stone for polish but the inclusions kinda stand out again 🙂 People on a razor forum here in Czech Republic actually use the dark side of a cuticule which I thought is crazy. I used to think that it's an artificial layer glued to a coticule but evidently it's a natural layer with imperfections. It may not be the case with all coticules. You never know what you get with them
+Nicholas Fanzo Seems that you're not alone here Nick! The great news is that I get emails almost daily from people who previously gave up on coticules or who are ready to but have tried my techniques and are getting fabulous, comfortable edges with their stones.
I could not help but think about the dark bevel you produced I know its true about no scratches on the bevel light can`t reflect ` plus the thinner it is,the grayer it will be due to no light reflection off any scratches and light just passing through, But if you ran that same edge over a Hard black or translucent Arkansas would it become a shiny edge as they are known for finishing a razor to a keen edge and polishing at the same time,which must scratch the bevel for it to become shiny where light gets reflected again. or am I wrong, And if this is the case then surely when a dark grayish edge is reached then you have reached a better edge than what a Arkansas hone stone could achieve,? (All my god this will up set the gods of the Arkansas worshiper,) I have to say when I first seen you on you tube I thought who is this nutter ` is he on some thing, and I found it hard to take you seriously you came over so eccentric. But after watching many of your video`s how wrong I was, you have bought so much knowledge that most have forgotten or just never seen the obvious when it comes to the Cut throat Razor , or straightedge razor, Examples Sorting out the Geometry , the heal , the back bevel, the circular scratch pattern issue, Showing the scratch pattern under high resolutions, and many many more tips and solving issues, You also are open to constructive criticism, you don`t get of your high horse when you may of got something not quite right, you go back to the table and keep going become better at what you do, to show the viewers better info, some out there think they invented the edge of a blade,lol, I always would throw you a question or two just like above about the grayish edge, if I am not quite agreeable or need your knowledge on what you may show, you either take on board what I question, or explain where I did not get it correct, and you answer with respect, So just a big thank`s for what you do for us guy`sand girl`s,
What a great series. I live in Holland. I am interested in buying a coticule stone, your videos have helped a lot so far. Interesting is that your technique seems to contradict the instructions given by the coticule supplier. Furthermore, I understand you do not use stropping as a last step? How would stropping fit with using coticule stones in general? I have learned a lot from another (German) channel - ua-cam.com/users/messermachenfeatured. This guy also has a great website. He has a lot of explatation about stropping and several polishing pastes etc., but does not mention honing or coticules anywhere.
+bigbattenberg Thanks for the compliment. Yes, my technique seems to contradict a lot of experts! (of which I certainly don't claim to be) LOL I checked that channel and I only see knife stuff. Different animal than razors. I don't know of anyone who uses coticules for knives. Woodworkers use them quite a bit for their tools tho.
LOL It was dozenS of coticules! Many were loaned to me by friends to experiment with so I didn't buy all of them. Besides, I already have many really good JNATs and love them. I gather you're implying that the JNATs are much better stones/edges than coticules. I used to think that... until I learned to properly hone on the Belgian stones.
Tried this method yesterday and the shave this morning was fantastic! Great edge!
Dr Matt your videos are absolutely brilliant. I've only been honing for nearly 2 years and I predominantly use synthetics and an Arkansas black. Today I ordered my first Coticule and just happened to stumble onto this video and I'm really glad that I did. Thank you so very much!
+Kon Soldatos Thanks Kon. You may want to watch the fourth video in this series on my modified technique for problematic coticules just in case...
+drmatt357 I most certainly will. Thank you :-)
I went through this...I like the line, “ I’m back in the coticule game! “ ! This is a great series of videos if you want to understand coticule stone sharpening. Thanks Dr. Matt.
MikeR - Thanks Mike and I’m glad you enjoyed the series. It’s been nearly 5 years since I did it and there’s really nothing I could add at this point.
You sir are an extremely intelligent man!! I appreciate your dedication and perseverance. Also, thank you for your offer at the end of the video. I am an injured US Marine and appreciate the support.
That's very nice of you Jason although my wife would beg to differ with you on the intelligent part. I thank you for your service and if there's anything I can do for you, just let me know.
Sir, I cannot thank you enough for this video. Using your technique, I was able to do in a day what I couldn't do in several years of failed coticule honing attempts. A tip of the hat to you.
You're welcome Chris and glad I was able to help. You may want to watch the 4th part if you haven't already on problematic stones. I modify this slightly if you have a stone that's difficult to get a handle on.
Thank you for introducing this method to the public! I have several coticules of different layers and struggled to get good edges from them. This method appeals to me because it makes sense and is simple. There is no "magic touch" required as with some other methods ;-)
I have tried your method using several razors (old and new). The old razors wouldn't stick to the coticule, but the new one (Dovo) did because it sits flat on the hone. Feedback from the stone (La Grise) was very direct and getting the razor to stick was easy. Before going to the coticule I used a Naniwa SS 8000. I had two shaves, and now I understand why coticules edges are classified as "skin friendly"! The edges weren't super sharp but I think that can be improved a lot by practicing.
I am really happy with the result and keen on trying my other coticules now (latneuses and dressante).
I ran across Dr Matt about 8 months ago and have followed him since. He has honed four of my razor, one which needed some serious work. I've had a few others hone some razor but Dr Matt puts what I consider a crazy edge on a razor. I'm talking crazy sharp! When I seen this video I jumped at the offer and got a free honing. Shaved with it tonight and as always it provided a smooth effortlessly shave. Thanks Dr Matt.
Mark Dayoc Thanks Mark.
Mark does a great job with videos. If you want to watch him shave with the razor I honed using this no slurry method, check it out here:
ua-cam.com/video/r5848Q2KjKw/v-deo.html
What a super helpful series of videos, thank you Dr Matt.
I was groping around in the dark before stumbling across these videos.
They’ve really helped me to get great edges from my little piece of coticule👍👍
Thank you Jake! Glad you could make use of the content.
Wasn't sure about this advice, then you pulled out the Motogp Casey Stoner comparison and I knew this was someone who knows what he's talking about, thanks :)
Ariliquin Ariliquin - LOL! Glad you enjoyed it mate!
I'm so pleased that you did not give up on your goals perfection. The first time I used a slurry stone on my Cuticule it wrecked my edge. Ill never use a slurry stone again.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Don and it sounds like you can understand! Yeah, I just had to do it to let everyone know. Coticules are not just for snobs anymore. 😉
I’ve watched these videos over and over. Thanks so much. My first coticule is out for delivery today
Good luck!! Let us know how you make out.
Magnificent video! So much fun watching you 'rocking the boat' Those were some magnificent edges you got with your technique!
WOW! I´m only half through that video and learned more about honing than 3 years training as a toolmaker a Bachlers dagree in mechanical engineering!
Daniel Strobel - Thanks Danny and glad you could benefit. 😁
@@drmatt357 OHHHHH! I´m not even half way done benefiting! I only wanted to hone my razor at least once! I never thought that a real master would share his knolege freely on UA-cam!
As a professional metal worker(and after some more of your videos) I have to say:
You realy are a master, if not more!
Thank you so much!!!! I have been pretty dead in the water with this and getting very frustrated after buying a coticule in hopes to keep my razor up to snuff, and have just been irritating my face pretty bad. I am very grateful for this video!!!!
You probably saved me a hell of alot of frustration. Thanks man
Great video. Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I have been contemplating buying a coticule, now I think I will go ahead and do it.
Thank you. I feel vindicated as a lot of guys don't like these stones on the forums. I always get great coticule edges but have always used a slurry method. I will definitely try this.
Great video. I stayed to watch the whole thing. Out of all the great points my favourite thing in the whole video was "misty slurry dude" I burst out laughing.
Seriously though after struggling for months with coticule edges trying a one stone method I can't wait to give your method a try. I will definitely be putting a stone before the coticule and after the bevel set.
I'm thinking 1k bevel set, to broken in washita then to the coticule. I've got a 3/8 k combo stone but don't like using it that much. More of a natural guy but welcome to the 21st century and maybe that would be the right place to start.
I don't have a fancy microscope but I have a sharpie to tell me I'm doing right.
Also I thought I should mention that some coticules have more "stiction" then others. I've got a la grise that is soapy feeling and sticks sooner then the harder la dressante I've got.
Thanks Matt!
+Scott Archi Yes, glad you got the Fast Times reference. I cracked up doing it.
Don't need a scope and yes, some stones stick more than others. Let us know how you make out.
Cannot believe this series is nearly a decade old.
Cheers for this video, I also understand the principal of getting all you can from any stone and not giving up when you don't know what the problem is.
I have a high finishing welsh slate from a guy (AJ) approx 15k he says and sells them on eBay, although to get 15k's worth from the slate is possibly an overstatement I have gotten quite good edges from it, ha, the thing is when it started sticking I did not continue honing as I thought the edge was digging into the slate and possibly damaging the edge, I was light as a feather, taking my time at the end to achieve this but thought the slate maybe too soft or something, now I will keep it going until it feels like this as you described knowing it could also be a good thing with the slate.
I will let you know if I get better results. I have read and heard so much mixed results with coticules, hard getting a good one and so on that it had put me off them and an escher is a bit out of my reach at the moment, at least an original ;)
Thanks again.
Hahaha Dr. Matt kicks ass! 😆😂💪🏻 Wow man i gotta say this is the first time i saw you rocking a suit & tie. I guess i shouldn’t be surprised though you are a Doc after all so. Anyway i really enjoyed the video thanks for another helpful lesson bud.
Love your passion man seriously great content!
Oh my God, at 19:07 ...exactly! Exactly, exactly! I am so very freaking with you on this.cheers! -cam-
+caleb McCullough (Blistersteel) This is funny Caleb. Now that I've gotten to know you a little more, this has to be the most animated I've seen you yet!
It was an important point for me,I had just finished trying to use my 13th coticule and it was nice to see someone coming forward and saying what I was thinking.
Now I use a light oil on most of my coticules and the difference is night and day in difference of the edges.
I had just read napoleon's little book where he called coticules oilstones and recommended using sperm whale oil on them. I appreciate the videos you make and the thoughts you share.cheers Dr matt.
Thanks for thinking about us!
---Your metric friends
You Blokes are alright!
great video. what microscope do you use? what magnification do you need? i am intrigued to see what type of edges i m getting :)
It's a Veho 400 power and can be had here: amzn.to/10TEhXC
If you're really interested in microscopes, stay tuned to my channel because i'm testing a company's microscope and will have a video out shortly with my findings. If it continues on as some of the preliminary things I've seen, it will be a Game Changer!
hi dr matt a friend of mine suggested i watch your video on cotucule stones and must say your explanation is grest i have a cotucule on order so will be great to learn your way on doing it. what 5k stone do you use on beval setting. ir do you use a 3k. thamks for the upload really interesting . your magnifier do you use on your laptop only like to invest in one to see how i get on.
If I bevel set Mark, I'm down at a 1K level. I think you're asking what is the brand of 5K stone I use just prior to the coticule. It's a Shapton. I have a 4th part to this series on problematic stones where I suggest going to an 8K stone then the coticule. At this point, that's pretty much what I do on all my razors anyway since 8K is all I really need to bring the edge back after many uses.
Matt, I seriously love you man. :)
Great video as always! Im thinking of getting a coticle. Thats great to hear i can use with no slurry. IMO to a slurry can and will damage an edge. Are you talking about a reg yellow coticle? Does it have a hybrid coticle on the back? ive read about a hybrid coticle and some say it steps up the refinement a little more after the yellow.
There's 2 main types, a natural combo and glued. The natural has a "natural" backing that it was mined from the ground with. If you look at it from the side, you'll see the line of demarcation is a bit wavey. The backside is BBW or Belgian Blue. It's usually used a a pre-finisher. Haven't heard of it used after the coticule but this is the internet. ;-)
The glued ones have a slate backing that is glued to the coticule for structural stability but is pretty much useless for sharpening anything on.
drmatt357 I think on keith Johnson's website he calls the hybrid "The Les Latneuses" I think he even has a video on it. Ive never heard of it before??
Michael Chance Thats a different animal. That's what's called a Les Lat hybrid. Les Lat is the layer and the one side is a normal coti like but the hybrid side is a beautiful swirled mix of the LL and something else. I'm not really sure what but they are wonderful stones and most give great edges. They're also pretty pricey.
Where to buy a razor grade coticle? Ive read that some are not fine vs others. Ive been reading all the coticle terminologies are confusing such as different veins and mines ect..
It can be confusing. I prefer the vintage stones. They were mined before they gave them names. I seem to have the most luck with them. You have to get a stone from someone that has tested them on razors.
Sehr gut!Greetings from Germany!
thanks dr matt. just received my stone and boy its not easy at all. 2 hours later and still didn't get anywhere. so gave up and went on a jnat stone leval 5. i have so much to learn great video by the way. your a funny guy. i couldn't stop laughing. . just brilliant
Doc, coti's are used in two ways: 1. as a lower grit stone (1k, 2k, 3k, 5k) 2. As a finishing stone. The rule has always been simple: When you're using your coti as a lower grit stone, you use slurry. When you're using your coti as a finishing stone, you don't use slurry. This isn't some big discovery, it's just as it has always been. I'm not sure what your big break through is?
Here's two different hone progressions:
1. I take my razor from bevel setting on my 1k, then 2k, then 3k, then 5k, and then I finish with water only on a coticule. Pretty common progression.
2. I take my razor from bevel setting to finish on a coticule, starting with heavy slurry to set the bevel, and then progressively lighter slurries until I'm finishing on water only.
Both of those are very common. Again, where's the break through? Your video makes me think you were trying to use your coti as a finishing stone, but you were using slurry??? And then you discovered the use of just water only as a finisher? Sorry, Doc, but using water only on a coticule as a finisher isn't anything new under the sun. : )
Well, these videos have been up for 4 years and you're the first one to come up with some shitty comments (that got flagged BTW as possible spam because you don't use any real names on your account) but honestly, I'm surprised it took that long.
The most common way is the Dulucot method where you start with a slurry and water it down to clear water. I never had luck with that as I said in the video, the slurry did more damage than solutions it created.
I also said I didn't invent this technique as Paco talked of it on B&B and years ago you never even got a slurry stone with cotis. That didn't start until Eschers became popular. If the no slurry technique is so common, and use the 2-3-5 synthetic prior to the coti with plain water, send me all the links and references to someone showing the technique. Certainly nowhere to be found on Coticule.be...
But then again, I did state that I'm not good with cotis and guys like you know way more so you're welcome to post the links to your vids.
@@drmatt357 Coticule.be has been down for six months. As to the plain water on coticule method after a normal progression, just look at sharp razor palace. You'll find many old posts about plain water on a coti. Why do you think coti's didn't come with slurry stones? They were used as finishers with water.
I'm not exactly sure why you are getting your hackles up so badly about my posts. Nothing here was meant to offend, just inform. Since you've taken my posts so offensively, allow me to apologize.
@@drmatt357 After reading back through all of the comments I've made on your videos, I do honestly believe I owe you an apology. I was definitely too strong worded, and not just a little bit belittling (see what I did there?). I'm very sorry we've gotten off on the wrong foot. Even worse, it was my own fault. I sincerely apologize for being so offensive, Doc. Just to let you know, I do really enjoy your channel. In fact, I think I've actually dropped a *positive* (if you can believe that) comment on a few of your videos. I, too, am a gun advocate. I reload everything I shoot, as well. So we do share similar hobbies, and think we'd probably get along very well if we met in real life.
So please allow me to start over again.... Doc, I really enjoy your channel, keep up the good work, and I'll be much less offensive when we take different sides of an issue in the future. After all, we are on the same team here.
I was lucky enough to pick up a La Verte (I'm probably spelling that wrong) coticule from Ardennes back in 2008. It's a natural coticule/BBW combination stone, green in color, hence the name. It is a fantastic finisher. I also have a vintage "Pike" brand coti that I bought around the same time. It's an extremely fast coticule, and just a joy to use. Unfortunately, one of the edges is getting quite thin, so it's pretty much a garage queen now. I feel like I got lucky, in that I was able to stop collecting coti's at two, as I got one of each type I was shooting for.
Anyway, I'll stop rambling around here. Keep up the good content, Doc.
Hi dr Matt I picked up a coti at an antique shop but it's definitely not a finisher it's smooth as glass tried everything heavy slurry no slurry could it be its just not a finisher it gives a smooth edge but doesn't shave well it's 7" long by 1/12" wide ty
are the images shown before or after stropping? also, do you use .15 micron diamond or CrOx in the stropping sequence? so, are the images net of leather stropping only, or a combination of diamond /CrOx and leather?
Need a time marker Johnny.
Are your edges at the same level of a surgeon's scapel? Also, I'm hoping you cover various tests of how to rate edge performance.
Currently my test for the best edge i can produce is by shaving a patch of leg hair against the grain, where i should not feel any sensation of hair being removed. A greater test my edges cannot overcome is shaving a patch of my buzzed head cleanly in one pass. Longer hair seems to be easier to shave, but the buzzed haircut seems to present much difficulty for my edges. Also shaving the head requires a much sharper edge to compensate for the lack of precise angling of the razor which is easier to achieve shaving a face.
COMB0RICO - The best test to rate edge performance is the shave test. Sharp is easy. The trick is o create an edge that will cut whiskers yet not remove and/or irritate your skin. Always a fine balance and everyone has their own place on the spectrum.
How do you compare a coticule to a hard black Arkansas? I typically start with a Naniwa 12k ss, then go to a hard black Arkansas, the Kanoyama. Just got my 1st Koraat yesterday .... what a joy to shave with!
Peder Halverson - I gather you mean a surgical black. There are translucent blacks also. They’re stupid hard and very fine edge. A surgical black ark I believe gives a sharper edge than a coticule but not as sharp as a trans ark. I admittedly don’t have much experience with them.
The grades are somewhat confusing based on who’s selling. I use a hard black from Ken’s. I can get an awesome edge from everything, but my Dovo Envogue .... VERY stubborn razor. The coticule is intriguing though. Awesome vids DrMatt! 👍
Black Arkansas rather ... the hard is 2 grades down 🤷♂️
Great and interesting video I just bought a coticule. Thanks
What is a decent sized coticule? I see everything from super small to seemingly large? Or at least what you would recommend?
Joe Jackson - it’s personal preference. I really like stones about 1.5” by 6-7”. That’s 40mm X 150-175mm. The bigger they get, the price goes up exponentially.
This may be of value to people looking for good information on Coticule. From www coticule be
How does a Belgian Blue Whetstone compare to a Coticule? (a story about garnets)
The Belgian hones (Coticule and Belgian Blue Whetstone, commonly abbreviated to BBW) are very closely related. They are mined together. Actually is is impossible to extract any Coticule without also extracting massive amounts of BBW. Traditionally, Coticules were always backed by a piece of BBW. Some bonded together by nature, but most of them glued together by man. The main reason for this is to reinforce the Coticule part with the stronger Blue stone. Nowadays, Coticules are backed with a piece of Portuguese Slate, because it is more cost-effective to use easily available slate tiles for backing a Coticule than to produce labor intensive backing stones out of BBW rocks. The BBW stones are now sold separately, because they posses honing qualities of their own. Both the Begian hones are used with "slurry" This is an abrasive milk raised on top of the hone by moistening the surface with water and rubbing it with a small piece of Coticule/BBW The slurry of the Belgian hones contains spessartine garnets. These garnets are extremely hard mono-crystals with a very typical shape.
Highly magnified representation of a Spessartine Garnet
They are hard enough to scratch steel. A slurry is not made of garnets only. It also contains water (obviously), and a great deal of phyllosilicates. Phyllosilicates are minerals that are much softer than steel. These minerals bonded the garnets together before they were abraded off the stone by rubbing with the slurry stone.
On a hypothetical note, that explains what we have found in frequent observations, small garnets can easily sink in the steel. Larger garnets can't sink so deep in the steel, because the honing pressure is spread out over a wider surface area. Try scratching a table with a spoon. Now try the same with a fork (Don't send your wife or mother to me when you run into trouble over this important experiment;-)) Back to the garnets: with the size of the segments at the garnets' surface being roughly the same, smaller garnets are less rounded than larger garnets. That makes smaller garnets more "spiky".
Conclusion: large garnets leave slightly wider but also more shallow scratches, while small garnets cut more aggressively and deeper.
Coticules contain a high concentration of small garnets (5 to 15 micron in diameter): up to 40% of the entire volume of the rock.
BBWs contain a lower concentration of wider garnets (10 to 25 micron in diameter): up to 25% of the entire volume of the rock.
That makes BBW's slower than Coticules and if we are aiming for serious steel removal during the first stages of honing, the average Coticule will perform a great deal faster than any BBW. Hence, if the choice to do serious bevel correction is between Coticule and BBW, pick the Coticule.
But there's more to the picture:
The loose garnets in the slurry also abrade the very edge, while it plows through the fluid. The thicker the fluid, the higher the concentration of garnets (less water) and the more the thinnest part of the edge deteriorates from the impact with the garnets. That is a dulling action. At the same time, the garnets remove steel from the bevel sides, which is a sharpening action. As long as the edge is not very sharp earlier during the honing process, the dulling effect is negligible, because the tip is not as fragile. When the edge becomes sharper, the tip becomes more fragile and more prone to "slurry deterioration". At a given point, there's a limit where the edge looses as much keenness as it gains. You could hone the razor into oblivion and not ever get a sharper edge than this limit. One of the advantages is that you'll never "overhone" a razor on a Belgian slurry, allegedly a common danger on synthetic water hones. With normal pressure and regular razor honing methods, we have never been able to see any evidence of "overhoning" on the Belgian hones.
At equal slurry thickness, a BBW with its lower concentration of less aggressive garnets, has a sharper limit than a Coticule.
Of course you could use thinner slurry on a Coticule, but for the inexperienced user it's still easier getting more keenness of a BBW with slurry than hitting the same level on a Coticule with thinner slurry. With experience it can be done, however, and the BBW becomes pretty redundant for razor sharpening at that point.
When no slurry is used, but plain water instead, we get a different story. The garnets remain halfway or more embedded in the surface of the hone. A Coticule with its small garnets in higher concentration offers a very finely textured surface. The BBW, having more sparsely spread bigger garnets offers a less fine surface. Both hones become very slow. The BBW becomes so slow, that it seems to loose most of it's honing qualities. It almost behaves like a piece of marble. It seems to very slowly dull the edge rather than sharpening it any further. That's why it is not recommended to dilute the slurry to plain water on a BBW.
But Coticules just keeps on going, albeit at an extremely slow rate.
No slurry, no slurry deterioration either.
Obviously the edge won't gain sharpness infinitely. As with any hone there still is a limit. That limit is defined by how deep the hone cuts in the steel. A hone that digs 0.5 micron into the steel will never define an edge thinner than those 0.5 micron. That's one good reason to use minimal pressure during the final stages of honing. Coticules on water are slow. They remove almost no steel with each honing stroke. For that they can define very sharp edges. But they are so slow that it takes ages to catch up if you weren't already at a very decent keenness when you decided to start working on water only.
A Coticule with water is a finishing hone. The majority of them can't be used to make up for much neglected keenness earlier on in the honing process.
Last update on 2010-02-14 by Bart Torfs.
Great stuff, will give a try on the lá dressant of high quality I got it for it
Any experience with La Nouvelle Veine? I've read that this particular stone give the peste edge only with slurry.
I had one and it was a very difficult coticule. the slurry dulled the razor. use with water.
Ionut-Alexandru Batrinache I have a few of those sir,I use mine with water. nice deep polish from them.
@20:45; Pressure is not force. For a given downward force, pressure is inversely proportional to the contact area, or the width of the bevel (assuming the force is distributed evenly between the bevel and the spine). I have a razor with a 0.1mm bevel and another with a 3mm bevel - for the same downward force, the pressure is 30x higher on the narrow bevel. If you want to quantify pressure, you need to provide both the force and the bevel width.
+scienceofsharp Thanks for this Todd. At first I thought you were just trying to break my balls but I've since read your blog and was fascinated and understand where you're coming from. Greatest razor stuff I've ever seen. Check your Google messages.
Very good video.
sorry about the stropping question, I had not gone through the whole video yet.
have you tried your coticule technique on jnat? I'm interested to see what will happen to the edge. hone with no slurry (i always knew that's the way to go, but i found with slurry, the edge is more aesthetically pleasing)
I have and it seems like it just doesn't do anything. The JNAT is like an epoxy, you need both parts, stone and slurry to make it work.
Haha i loved the intro😂.. Just as the rest.. ❤
Matt, I really love your videos more and more, you're just doing great in honing teaching, and if there will be a school you definitly be the teacher I would choose in that school 😉.. Now.. I understood the stroping thing after each stone even the 5k..I understood that you're doing it not on leather but on linen right ?.. But you said another name I didn't get "swayve" or something like that... Could you explain me what is this other this your stroping with ?
Chris Picking - Thanks Chris. Only do about 6 passes on the strop between stones and it was suede I was talking about. I used that before I got a linen strop which is better.
drmatt357 thanks Matt, what is Suede ?? Do you have a video that talks about it ?
Ohhh thant you my friend
Great series doc I appreciate your efforts to help God bless
Thanks for your time and effort!
Thanks Mate! Are you Alex?
Yes, at last I can hone my razors now! The tips you have given have made a huge difference. Basically, I was trying too hard, pressing too much and spending way too much time overhoning the blade. Your advice backed up with the microscope pictures has shown me the way. It seems that basic sharpness is achieved early in the honing process. I managed that on a Norton 4k/8k. No slurry on the coticule and very gentle strokes polishes the edge. It's so simple! Thanks again.
Fantastic!
Read me Dr Matt357
When doing x strokes you get micro channel grooves that allow water to pass between the grooves of the razor and stone , water runs through easier due to the scratch lines running more straight like little streams but the razor will have deeper grooves than a circular motion ,
This makes it harder for the razor to have the suction effect because of air between the razor and stone` also get less suction when using tape because less of the blade edge to the spine is touching the stone due to the higher degree of the spine,the thing where the blade goes in between the lower parts where the garnets are not present and flex into the lower spots that why it sticks, may be not quite correct as the spine does not flex as its to thick, so its still goes on the printable that water fills the voids and pushes out the air that causes the suction ,
If you rub 2 hones together to flatten them ones they are flat they push out air and the slurry fills in any voids then they stick together as a suction has been produced ,
Doing circular strokes is more of a cutting and polishing effect water can not run fluent between razor and stone because the grooves in the razor are no longer straight so Even less water gets in between the stone and razor steel, witch will cause a more suction effect witch brings allot more of the razors edge touching the stone,
Two ways your razor edge is sticking to the stone, water and air has been pushed out as you move the razors cutting edge causing suction but little micro water is filling in the minute divots in the razor and stone, due to less scratching in the blade and removing any micro particles from the stone that would keep the blade edge from having complete contact.
The other method would be to build up of slurry that has no hard micro particle keeping the razor edge from making full contact to the stone , so if you think like a paste mixture ,where no air is in allowed to get between the blade and stone due to the slurry being smooth and creamy, this would cause a blade to drag and not glide but the blade is dragging on the slurry not as much on the stone.just like any muddy bank or thick quick sand , when you try to lift your wellington out of mud it sucks the dam thing of your foot,as you step in it pushes air out, causing a vacuum effect when lifting the boot,
But having an edge so smooth could work against the cutting action ,their is that fine line,
That`s why a couple of strokes doing x pattern at the end would benefit the razors edge in being stronger and staying sharper.
Some grooves left in would act as release stresses between the metal and stop it from buckling under the pressure of cutting hair.
When I say buckling what I mean is when a knife won`t cut but still has a keen edge, using a kitchen steel will straighten the blades edge on a knife, again.
I hope all this makes sense to why some persons will use slurry and it will work to an extent and they would get the razor to suck to the stone ,but the razor is running on the slurry not the stone, but usually not get as good result as to running under water .
Belgium coticule was encourage to make a slurry mix some years ago, The selling point was the garnets it release were shaped like an old football caser, The garnets roll with the blade rather than scratch deep into the metal
You may want to watch my X Stroke vids regarding circles. Thanks for the info.
I am trying to learn using straight razors and honing them, can someone explain me what is this coticule. I cant find any informations what are they exactly
A coticule is a natural stone (mined) and mostly from Belgium. Different stones impart different feels to the edge. Each type has their fan club who claim they are the best. Coticules have a reputation for being very comfortable yet not very sharp. They're also know for being difficult to get an edge on hence the purpose of this series. Check here for tons of info: coticule.be/
Thank you, sir.
After this video I shall call you Matt nor Doctor but Professor : )
During your videos you talk a lot about the way a razor adheres to the stone and starts to grab and stick. Have you heard of "gauge blocks"? They are so flat and finely lapped that they adhere to each other with incredible force. I thought you might be interested in checking them out.
Leon D - I haven’t heard of them Leon. What is the purpose of them? Do they relate to sharpening?
drmatt357 They are used as a highly accurate standard form of measurement. Accuracy is +/- 1 millionth of an inch on average.
The reason I mention them here is not about their intended purpose, but to relate the finish on your razors to the finish on the blocks. The blocks have the same tendency to stick together.
Why you do not use honer with Coticule ? you use with 5k Shapton you can run water and put it on angle if you like ro there is a reason to hold it in your hand?
Not sure I understand the question Gene...
Hi DrMatt
Why you do not use a holder / stand with Coticule but use with all the other stones?
@@genew7872 - The Coticules I use as finish stones so not as much work or leaning on them as a 5k or any of the other preceding synthetic stones. The Coticules are usually smaller and won’t fit in the holder but also on finish stones, I do this with the ILR too, when you hold them, the razor will make a better contact because your hand holding the stone can move also and conform to the edge... if that makes sense.
Ok Ta,
It just I am sure that I recall you using 15K Naniwa super stone and Black Translucent or Surgical Ark on a stand and the Coti you using in the video is at least 7"x1 3/4" so could not figure out why :-)
Or you are referring to the fact hat Germans in Solingen Neve use flat stone, they use an
Ellipsoid shaped stone ?@@drmatt357
Great info!
Glad it was helpful!
Of course, the slurry is BS. Doesnt make sense microscopically to drive free abrasive rocks against the edge.
I hate coticules BTW. I've got two. One is like 400 grit with a much nicer dark side. Pretty soft though. The other could be really nice if it had no inclusions. I can lap it to a mirror shine - maybe 30k, 60k or more. The black dots in it are hard. I can feel these inclusions when sliding on it with an edge leading stroke. The only way to crush them is with a diamond plate and then the whole surface is only as smooth as my diamond plate grit. I could take it then on a carborundum stone for polish but the inclusions kinda stand out again 🙂
People on a razor forum here in Czech Republic actually use the dark side of a cuticule which I thought is crazy.
I used to think that it's an artificial layer glued to a coticule but evidently it's a natural layer with imperfections.
It may not be the case with all coticules. You never know what you get with them
oof
Will do
if been saying coticule are finishing stones for years. true true unicot and dilucot for YEARS and always failed. nick...disburden on the forums.
+Nicholas Fanzo Seems that you're not alone here Nick! The great news is that I get emails almost daily from people who previously gave up on coticules or who are ready to but have tried my techniques and are getting fabulous, comfortable edges with their stones.
I hate that dreaded white line too! That's a wire edge.
Michael Shults - Yes, annoying AF Michael! You do all that work and come to the end and see that and you know you have to start all over again. 😩
I could not help but think about the dark bevel you produced
I know its true about no scratches on the bevel light can`t reflect ` plus the thinner it is,the grayer it will be due to no light reflection off any scratches and light just passing through,
But if you ran that same edge over a Hard black or translucent Arkansas would it become a shiny edge as they are known for finishing a razor to a keen edge and polishing at the same time,which must scratch the bevel for it to become shiny where light gets reflected again. or am I wrong,
And if this is the case then surely when a dark grayish edge is reached then you have reached a better edge than what a Arkansas hone stone could achieve,?
(All my god this will up set the gods of the Arkansas worshiper,)
I have to say when I first seen you on you tube I thought who is this nutter ` is he on some thing, and I found it hard to take you seriously you came over so eccentric.
But after watching many of your video`s how wrong I was, you have bought so much knowledge that most have forgotten or just never seen the obvious when it comes to the Cut throat Razor , or straightedge razor,
Examples
Sorting out the Geometry , the heal , the back bevel, the circular scratch pattern issue,
Showing the scratch pattern under high resolutions, and many many more tips and solving issues,
You also are open to constructive criticism, you don`t get of your high horse when you may of got something not quite right, you go back to the table and keep going become better at what you do, to show the viewers better info, some out there think they invented the edge of a blade,lol,
I always would throw you a question or two just like above about the grayish edge, if I am not quite agreeable or need your knowledge on what you may show, you either take on board what I question, or explain where I did not get it correct, and you answer with respect,
So just a big thank`s for what you do for us guy`sand girl`s,
What a great series. I live in Holland. I am interested in buying a coticule stone, your videos have helped a lot so far. Interesting is that your technique seems to contradict the instructions given by the coticule supplier. Furthermore, I understand you do not use stropping as a last step? How would stropping fit with using coticule stones in general? I have learned a lot from another (German) channel - ua-cam.com/users/messermachenfeatured. This guy also has a great website. He has a lot of explatation about stropping and several polishing pastes etc., but does not mention honing or coticules anywhere.
+bigbattenberg Thanks for the compliment. Yes, my technique seems to contradict a lot of experts! (of which I certainly don't claim to be) LOL
I checked that channel and I only see knife stuff. Different animal than razors. I don't know of anyone who uses coticules for knives. Woodworkers use them quite a bit for their tools tho.
dozen of coticules? wow you surely spent a lot of money on coticule.... I think you can get a pretty good jnat with all that money
LOL It was dozenS of coticules! Many were loaned to me by friends to experiment with so I didn't buy all of them. Besides, I already have many really good JNATs and love them.
I gather you're implying that the JNATs are much better stones/edges than coticules. I used to think that... until I learned to properly hone on the Belgian stones.