Her having a mental breakdown and seeing revived Rhaegar in Aegon in his moment of triumph would’ve been a cool move on Martin’s side, especially if his legitimacy remains open for the reader to decide.
If Cersei sees Faegon and Arianne together that’s probably gonna cause her to go even more crazy especially if she gets Rhaegar and Elia 2.0 vibes and believes Arianne could be the younger more beautiful queen.
@@justdirtshe was crazy for him lol but knowing how vindictive she is she might snap at just seeing Arianne and Faegon together especially since Aerys took away her dream of being with Rhaegar. But it would be extra ironic that she would be taken down by dany since in the books she looks exactly like him
might even lead to the reveal that it was Cersei who ordered the mountain to kill Elia. Tywin claims, in private to Tyrion, Elia was suppose to be a hostage.
The idea that Arianne survives is crazier than most theories, namely because Martin established a pattern that every single time that Doran Martell engages in revenge schemes, one of his loved ones dies. In this way he is killing his family to avenge his family. Doran sends Oberyn in his place to King's Landing, Oberyn dies. Doran sends Quentyn to Meereen, Quentyn dies. Doran sends Arianne to parlay with the Golden Company, Arianne is going to die. This even repeats with Arianne getting Arys Oakheart killed with her hairbrained scheme that had a 0% chance of succeeding. The Sand Snakes being sent to King's Landing is similarly going to end with most, if not all of them, dead. The element of overripe blood oranges falling to the ground and splattering in Doran's first scene is really telling symbolism. What else is telling is Ellaria outright giving a speech detailing the moral of the Dorne plot. This is Martin's way of saying, "REVENGE BAD."
I think is more than that: Oberyn didn't die cause he failed to face the Mountain, he died cause he tried to get a confession out of him. Quentyn didn't die cause he failed to get Danerys, he died cause he couldn't accept it. Doran's plans are the demonstration of what happens when you never take advantage of oportunities before they are gone. Being reckless is as dangerous as being too cautious
Let’s not forget one key benefit Arianne can give to Aegon. He has the Conqueror’s name, and through Illyrio will probably come to wield the Conqueror’s sword. All he needs now is the Conqueror’s crown. And where was it last seen? Dorne. With that, all he’ll need is to be anointed by the High Sparrow in sight of the people, and every symbol of legitimacy will belong to him.
The bride will be the wildfire. But seriously, it would be interesting to marry Princess Myrcella. She is legally a Baratheon and this could work as a compromise for peace in order to unite the blood of Rhaegar and Robert (lol). I imagine Young Griff and Myrcella parading through the streets of King's Landing surrounded by a cheering crowd.
I saw a theory saying that Myrcella is the queen that will end Cercei because she is very pretty and smart. So Cercei out of jealousy will end her own daughters life which in turn will make Jaimie end hers
@knightofrigel Myrcella is already betrothed to Trystane Martell and they seem like a really cute couple. I just want Myrcella to be happy, she goes through it in the books.
@13:38 Also, don't forget that Arianne is gorgeous, which could definitely influence Aegon, whether consciously or unconsciously. At the close of ADWD / beginning of TWOW, Aegon is 18 or 19- at that age, he'll VERY MUCH still be a hormonal teenager. And given that he has been living in hiding his whole life, it's entirely possibly he has never had a romantic or sexual relationship before. So when he meets this beautiful, powerful, charismatic, slightly-older woman (she's 24 to his 18,) who comes from a culture where both romantic love and sex are much less repressed than in the rest of Westeros, it's absolutely possible we will see him thinking with the head between his legs rather than the one between his ears
Nah, Aegon grew up beyond the sea with a troop of mercenaries. He has seen exotic beauties every day and very probably had a lot of experience already, as a young dashing "prince"- "leader" of the famous mercenary troops. What he has never seen in his life - is a true Seven kingdoms Rose. Which also happens to have a large army, supplies and logistics that hold the Lannister rule up. Take the Rose, get Kingslanding, destroy Lannisters and get the Reach in one swoop. Then marry Arianne as a second wife and proclaim yourself King, and then see whats going on with Littlefinger rule in the Trident and the Vale. Marrying Arianne first would only give him Dorne and a war against Tyrells and Lannisters together.
@@DiversDesign In terms of storytelling I definitely really like the idea of Aegon taking 2 wives like Aegon the Dragon did. GRRM loves the "history has a rhyme to it like a song" trope
@@viewer8734Had one of Elia’s children or both actually survived the sack of Kingslanding, perhaps they could’ve become dragon riders on account of Rhaegar’s Targaryen genes and Elia’s Martell genes combination. I think the Targaryen blood in Arienne wouldn’t be strong enough just like with Quentyn. Young Griff is still more likely to possess some dragon rider genes than she is since House Blackfyre is a branch off from House Targaryen so he may be able to ride a dragon anyway.
The smartest choice longterm is to wait for Danny, the best choice short term is to pick Arianne for Dorne, but he might alienate some great houses with that choice, he could pick Margery if Tommen dies or the Tyrell’s switch sides but idk
i often fantasize about the days where people like you, Alt and Glidus and all the lore content creators are yapping about my universe. ugh, what a life. until then, i'll keep writing and watching for hope.
Fantasy is almost inherently romantic because it engages directly with the concerns of the Romantic (note capitalisation) poets; indeed the modern genre is basically a reiteration of the original Romantic movement for a reading culture based around long-format prose. A Song of Ice and Fire is a really good example of this in action.
Malora Hightower aka the Mad Maid? She's got some spooky magic and prophecy stuff which Targaryens love, the Hightowers could be their "friends in the Reach", and apparently George planned to introduce the Hightowers as a major faction in AFFC (but he kinda failed at that). She is the eldest daughter though so she might be super old for Aegon
6:15 I don't see the Sand Snakes killing Tommen, I see fAegon capturing Tommen and then deciding to execute him, and justifying it with a "the Lannisters killed my sister Rhaenys". To enhance the parallel, Tommen like Rhaenys lives a second life in his kitten and causes mischief in the Red Keep. Big thematic thing with vengeance begetting vengeance begetting vengeance, making people do terrible things (killing children) and also exacting vengeance on the wrong people (the people who killed Rhaenys are dead; Tommen had nothing to do with it - he wasn't even born then!)
It would never happen for so many reasons, but you clarifying the assumption of Aegon being straight made me realise how interesting that not being the case could be. Namely, that it would be an opportunity for JonCon to work through more of his feelings for Rhaegar and to especially confront how he has remembered poor Elia Martell - his working to convince Aegon of the importance of not following the heart and marrying for the sake of his cause would be a really interesting lens for his character to develop in. And that kind of heartwarming positive change is the exact opposite direction JonCon is moving in, but it’s nice to think about.
Honestly JonCon being able to open up and reflect with someone who mirrors him about what has consumed his life is such an interesting way to Go, will he find closure, will it only strengthen him
Maybe not Aegon but Jon Connington marrying Cersei would be such a weirdly fitting choice ... their dramas fit together so nicely, Cersei father-complex, brother-complex, golden hand, hand of the king, Jon Con's Hand, her male/female inferiority/superiority gender-crossing thing with Jon Connington's implied romantic interests and both being in Love with Rhaegar ... the red and the gold with the gold and the red... the Golden Wedding would be DRAMA especially when our Jon hears the WEDDING BELLS
I wouldn't be surprised if Arianne and Aegon ended up together, but I actually don't think it will be as useful as either one of them thinks it will. For one, JonCon seems to think Dorne will rally for them without a marriage, all for Elia's sake. In fact, the letter he sends to Dorne in the sample chapter specifically doesn't offer _anything_ but revenge in return for their spears. From JonCon's point of view, Dorne is already a guaranteed supporter - why waste Aegon's one chance at forming an alliance on them? Additionally, though untouched, Dorne is only about half as strong as everything thinks; we're told for a long time that the number of Dornish spears is 50,000, but then it's later revealed by Doran that the actual number is closer to 30,000. Aegon would be marrying someone who potentially might have supported him anyway, but will not get the force he thinks he's been promised, and likely won't be happy. Also, though Aegon is definitely a typical teenage boy, he's specifically a typical ASOIAF teenage boy - he's a bit sexist. The idea that Dany would want the throne for herself or that she could be the rightful heir and not him (The Mad King actually disinherited Aegon and made Viserys his rightful heir) seems to never occur to him. Hell, we see that the idea that she wouldn't even want to marry him never occurs to him until Tyrion points it out as a possibility. Arianne is beautiful, and certainly knows how to get things from men with her sexuality, but she's also had to deal with sexist men her whole life. Marrying Aegon would just make her play second fiddle to am arrogant man, something she most certainly does not want. Though of course, she does like handsome young men and power, so maybe she'll ignore the red flags like how she later admitted she did with Dark Star. And finally, I don't think Dorne overall will be happy with an Arianne/Aegon pairing. Doran especially seems to really hate the Targaryens, and he should. He lost his beloved sister because her Targaryen husband seemingly abandoned her to screw an-already engaged, barely legal girl (to say nothing of the history the Rhoynish have had with the Valyrians). The Quentyn quest was unnecessarily dangerous and under-resourced, not to mention it's just crazy to assume that a marriage pact between Arianne and Viserys would somehow transfer to Quentyn and Dany. Even Arianne's quest to meet Aegon is NOT the sort of group you'd send if you were hoping to impress a young prince into marrying your daughter - it's filled with non-significant houses and a bastard girl who carries Aegon's supposed mother's name, for goodness sake. Clearly, Doran does NOT want to leave a good impression on Aegon, and certainly does not want to see his daughter and heir embroiled in the carnival of craziness that is the game of thrones. Like you said, she'd definitely be in harms way. Basically I think if they did marry, Aegon would be upset that his new wife hAs oPiNiOnS!!!?? and would feel betrayed when it's revealed that Dorne is not as strong as they claimed. Arianne would realize she's saddled with someone who is a glorified puppet who studied all the right books but whose path to kingship was absolutely not at all his own doing. The crown would miss out on a far better match, whether Danny or Sansa or Maergery in terms of political importance, and Dorne would likely have to relive the horror of Elia/Rhaegar, as Aegon probably will be far from an ideal husband/political leader. All this to say, I really enjoyed this video, haven't seen a video about this topic and I loved thinking about it!
Using this vid to spread Myrcella propaganda cause I'm reading the boiled leather order for feast and dance and just got back to Arianne's first chapter. Myrcella is so sweet and nice, her and Tommen are just nice cute kids and I want them to be happy lol
I don't think Arianne is off to fAegon to propose an alliance with her marrying him. That might be Doran's plan but I don't think Arianne will do that. fAegon winning means Tommen will be dead, leaving Myrcella as the last Baratheon heir. A common idea we see a lot in history and fiction is that to mend the wounds of conflict one person from each side will marry. Also what better way for FAegon to seal the throne than by marrying the last Baratheon, not only giving him two claims to the throne but it would leave no one for an opposition to rally behind. fAegon marrying Arianne will win him Dorne's loyalty, but marrying Myrcella will win him the entire nation, while still making Dorne the primary ally for arranging it. And who currently controls that possibility? Well, Myrcella is in Dornish hands right now. Arianne's story is about her wanting Dorne, and she's already hatched a plan to make Myrcella queen. I think the marriage that Arianne is going to propose is not to her but to Myrcella. I find it strange how few people consider this option. People dismiss Myrcella due to the prophesy that she will die. But George loves to have double meanings. "Gold will be their crowns" is usually taken to mean hair colour as a way to show their true parentage. But it could also be literal. Two of the three have already been crowned, so it's not much to assume the third will be too.
The problem is that marrying Myrcella might be a good from a political standpoint, but if he takes the Throne, the only options are Margaery and Arianne, as Myrcella is only 10 in the books and as such cannot bear him children yet, while Arianne is 24 and Margaery is 16.
@@nickdentoom1173 We've been shown several times that in the world of Ice and Fire young age isn't that big a problem, especially not for the powerful families. Tommen is younger and is married (it's explicitly stated that he's too young for bedding. If his marriage is for alliances because he's the Baratheon claimant, and children can wait a few years, then the same reasoning applies to Myrcella too because she'll become the claimant herself), Arya was that young when her marriage was arranged (the politics of the marriage mattered, not kids), Laena Velaryon was only a little older when offered in marriage (and it's stated they would wait before kids), Tyrek Lannister married a baby. Those are the ones I can instantly think of. Children can wait, as is repeatedly shown. What matters most is the politics and alliances that the marriage would bring. Myrcella offers more politically than either Arianne or Margaery, they would only bring a single kingdom each while Myrcella could bring them all, even his enemies.
@@Valkanna.Nublet While Myrcella would bring more politically, Arianna/Margaery can produce instant heirs for Aegon, which is far more important in the short term, especially with Dany being the other claimant. Aegon getting a child, would mean Dany's claim would be diminished even further, making it so more houses in Westeros actually want to follow Aegon instead of Dany.
@@nickdentoom1173 The houses in Westeros break down into 3 basic groups: 1: Those that won't follow either Baratheon or Targaryen. (That doesn't automatically mean they all like each other, just that they don't like those specific two ruler options) 2: Those who support Baratheon. They currently follow Tomen, but in the event of his death they will follow Myrcella. If both are killed there's a chance that some will just revolt against tyrant ruler. 3: Those that support Targaryens. Which means they have to chose between two options: a: Aegon. He has a better claim, he's male, unmarried so available for alliances, he has westerosi advisors, and is currently supported by Westerosi and the decendents of Westerosi. b: Dany. She has the worst claim, is female, married to a foreigner and slaver, she has advisors who are Westerosi but who are also traitor (Barristan) murderer/ regicide (Tyrion) and slaver (Jorah), she has an army of foreign barbarians and slave soldiers (Yes she freed them but people know that the Unsullied are slaves), and she has dragons. Comparing Aegon and Dany literally the only thing Dany has going for her are the dragons (and reader loyalty), every single other point is in Aegon's favour. There's not a single point that changes by Aegon having kids, he doesn't need kids to make his claim better, he's already winning by far. Plus I'd be picky and saying that at least a year for the birth to make sure the child is male, if not longer if it's female, is not particularly 'short term'. Whereas marrying Myrcella is an action that has immediate effects. Yes, Aegon is probably fake and Dany will reveal him. However, no one knows that right now, not even Aegon himself, so it has absolutely no effect on current political reasoning. (Just like most of the theorising and assuming that us readers do) If Aegon marries Arianne or Margaery he will win one single kingdom to his cause (and Dorne would likely join him anyway to fight the Lannisters) and it won't win the war because the Baratheon faction will still be fighting him, there will still be a Baratheon claimant, or just plain anti-tyrant revolt. If Aegon marries Myrcella then he gains all the Baratheon supporters, as well as still having Dorne in a favoured position for aranging it. He ends that war. In fact, marrying Myrcella before Tommen is even dead could immediately win over some of the Baratheon supports who hate that the current regime is so heavily influenced by Cercei, Margaery, and others. They get to turn away from the current regime while still claiming loyalty to King Robert's legacy.
@@Valkanna.Nubletwhile these are all excellent points and it’s true Dany really has nothing going for her, Varys will certainly have heard of Daenerys growing brutality as much as her mercy. And she has the dragons. It’s much easier to depose or kill one person than it is a whole family, therefore it may still be within Aegon’s best interests to produce as many heirs as possible before Daenerys arrives. After all, as Varys well knows, babies are very easy to disappear and fake the deaths of. Alternatively, given the same information about Dany, Varys may be planning to marry Aegon and Dany in order to appease her. She still gets the throne (albeit as Queen consort) and the realm is finally at peace.
I know who Sansa’s Targaryen suitor isn’t the point of this video, but another point in Jon’s favour is GRRM’s original plan that had a Jon\Arya/Tyrion love triangle. Jon marrying Sansa, who was once married to Tyrion might be the ‘updated’ version of this plan.
My thoughts exactly. I know a lot of people hate the idea of Jon and Sansa being married, but it could very well happen. Their marriage could also be key to unifying the north.
@@MarieCurtis92 No, there is a lot of people who ship Jonsa, mainly show watchers. But the books have hints of Arya if anyone. Either Dany or Arya, definitely not Sansa. Don't see how that "could very well happen".
Regarding the illegitimacy/subterfuge/falsehood(s) theme of Sansa's suitors, it actually goes even deeper than what Quinn talks about: ---Joffrey "Baratheon" is not a Baratheon ---Margaery and Olenna plot to marry Sansa to Willas Tyrell in secret ---Tyrion Lannister's marriage to Sansa is a marriage that both the bride and the groom are forced into against their respective wills, and is currently not [official? Ratified? Made legitimate? Whatever term you want to use] because it remains unconsummated. Oh and Sansa doesn't know it's happening until the day of the wedding so you could count that as a secret betrothal as well ---Harold Hardyng thinks he is betrothed to Alayne Stone, natural daughter of Petyr Baelish, when in reality she is Sansa Stark, and it is for this reason that Littlefinger has made sure only a small select few people even know about the engagement, because he plans to go public with the betrothal in combination with going public about Alayne's real identity. So we have a double-whammy of secret identity + secret betrothal there Therefore, BOTH the fact that Aegon has spent his entire life under an assumed identity of Young Griff, son of Griff (not only is he not Griff's biological son, but Griff is another alias) AND the fact that neither the readers, nor anyone in-universe (except for Varys, and possibly Illyrio, but even then, what firsthand knowledge Illyrio possesses about Aegon is dependent on what Aegon's real identity is- son of Rhaegar, son of Illyrio, son of Illyrio + nephew of Varys, other random Blackfyre descendent, OR SOMEONE ELSE- so the only certain person is Varys) are positive about who Aegon really is, would both contribute to the fact that if Aegon and Sansa get betrothed, it would VERY MUCH fit with Sansa's romantic theme Although fair point by Quinn, if she and Jon get together, this would all still fit, since Jon is a Targaryen, fulfilling the last of the Ashford champions, but no one except for Ned and Howland Reed knew Jon's parentage, and now just Howland does, so we have the secrets theme continuing as well
I dont think Littlefinger will reveal Sansa ro Harry, it would give him and Sansa too much power and independence. I think he is only baiting them with his lowborn daughter Alayne, while he plans to keep Sansa for himself. The play for the Riverrun will give it all a perfect pretext, once Riverrun gets taken over by the Outlaws and Freys get all murdered (that should be a certaainty at this point) it will be too much for Littlefinger to resist - especially compared to the situation in the North at this time and probable Stannis Baratheon - North loyalists victory against the Boltons. (Not that Boltons ruling the North would be good for Littlefinger in any way). Which would be only followed by the fall of the Wall and the Long Night. He is even officially Lord Paramount of the whole region including the Riverrun and its lands, so it will be his duty to "restore justice" and in the process also take Riverrun and Catelyns young beautiful daughter for himself. And then get to claim North through marriage. Petyr Baleish Lord of the Riverrun and the Vale and the North... maybe even a King Littlefinger the First. Hmm- hm!
To me Aegon represents a pre-Baratheon Westeros, with all its greatness and its shortcomings. He’ll show up with his Dornish wife and a Dayne on his kingsguard rocking that silver hair. But with his arrival he brings out the secrets of the dynasty before him, like the wildfire caches underneath the city. He represents their fall from power while Daenerys represents their rise to it.
I know this is an aegon video but I love when you talk about all of the female characters in got - they are all so amazing and complex thanks for ur analysis as always
Jon is not Dany’s to take and neither is Aegon, both of them are really willful and being two sidekicks for some self-proclaimed queen is totally out of character for them.
2:22 I like to think it's Stannis Baratheon. I take a bit from Lord of the Rings and Stannis is like King Theoden with ending of Aragorn who ended up crowned as King of Gondor. The story started with Ned Stark wants to put Stannis in Iron Throne in A Game of Thrones should be paid off with Stannis on the Iron Throne in A Dream of Springs (or atleast for a short period of time).
I’m of a mind that Aegon will refuse Arianne, he is her cousin, he is half Martel, by rights they should give him their swords anyways as their only option and I think this characterisation as Aegon as a bit of an idiot is inaccurate, what he is is ambitious and guess what Tyrion’s advice was entirely correct as proven by what happened to Quentyn, a very deliberate parallel.
@@J..P..yeah exactly, in Westerosi culture Arianne is “sullied” and a lot older than Aegon. The only thing making her a desirable match is that she’s had no bastards, which might indicate that she’s infertile. Plus she’s the heir to Dorne
@@billychops1280 Okay so that means roughly 152 cm-s. That's not a midget though,the average height for women in the USA is 161 cm (5 ft 3). compared to that,5 foot is below average,but not a midget. Another few interesting statistics: The average height for women in Spain and Morocco (The two countries Dorne was inspired by) is 159 cm (5 ft 2) and the average height for women in Sri Lanka is exactly 152 cm (5 ft),meaning that even with nowadays standard,there are places she would be average. Which is insane,considering diet and nutritions were way worse back then,keeping people from a growth spurt
It’s going to be Elia Sand. She’s traveling with Arianne, she’s named after the woman that Young Griff thinks was his mother, they’re basically the same age, and she has all the Lyanna Stark signifiers (wild, loves horses, trains with a lance). Young Griff has already picked a Kingsguard knight without asking JonCon’s approval. That sets up him impetuously getting married. And given that he’s a king in his own mind, he could even legitimize her before the wedding. Just assume Young Griff is hosting a feast after taking Storm’s End, Arianne and JonCon have already made the deal to do the marriage, but at the very end of the chapter, Faegon announces the legitimacy of Elia and tells the whole crowd they’re getting married right now. Tell me that’s not how GRRM ends a big chapter, because that is exactly how he ends a big chapter.
Gonna throw out a dark horse option here, Talla Tarly. If the Golden Company have friends in the Reach, who better than the military leader who bested Robert in the Rebellion? He isn’t as high of a name as the others, but he’s still a notable name from a house with a Valyrian steel sword. We know Randyll dismisses the news of Jon Con and the Golden Company, perhaps because he’s working with them. His loyalty to Mace is a complication, but perhaps he’s finding a way to help the Tyrells from behind the scenes in case things go bad for the current crown.
I could see him marrying Daenerys due to Targaryns having marriage rules similar to those of the average red state. Strategically, Sansa makes the most sense, and it also works with how Littlefinger seems to be setting her up to be a master manipulator. I could also see Cersei attempting to woo him, and getting pretty far with it, and then failing. Margery probably won't be it unless something happens to Tommen. If Dany sets King's Landing on fire in the books like she did in the show, then it makes sense that Cersei is married to Aegon.
Although I believe Sansa's future is northwards, GRRM might be setting up another Elia, Rhaegar, Lyanna triangle with Arianne, Aegon, Sansa. However it would be a twisted, reversed version of the original triangle.
Like Arianne is the opposite of Elia. She is the oldest of the three and quite confident and firey. Sansa is nothing like Lyanna (Arya is taking after Lyanna). And Aegon is not Rhaegar and most likely not even a Targ. The whole thing would be artifical and unsustainable. That could draw attention to how authentic the first triangle really was, and underscore why Jon Snow is the true heir, a real Targ, and Aegon is fake.
@@maksimnikiforovski2034 the fact that faegon may or may not be a blackfyre doesnt change the fact that jons still a bastard even if he is rhaegar and lyannas child. there was no possible way for jon to be legitimate and lets be fr i dont even think rhaegar and lyanna cared that much. and if they did care about him being a bastard then im assuming that they were just planning on legitimising him after rhaegar won the war and got rid of his father. basically theres no way for jon to be a true heir because hes still a bastard at the end of the day. the true heir to the iron throne atm is stannis the mannis.
Doran sending Arianne to try making a marriage alliance with Aegon does fit. It's been a while since I read Feast_, but I remember there being some indication that he'd intended to marry her to Viserys, and when that fell through due to, well, Viserys being Viserys, deciding to send Quentyn to Meereen to try his luck with Daenerys. Now _another Targaryen's shown up, and he's practically next door! What luck!
For the first question who I want on the Iron Throne Stannis Baratheon or Edric Baratheon (being named in a will of a King). House Baratheon Fury For The Win. The 2nd question is him having a harem of Queens, one for each of the Kingdoms who rule when Aegon isn't there. Crown = Daenerys North = Sansa Dorne = Arianne Westerlands = Myrcella Reach = Margaery Iron Islands = Asha Stormlands = Mya I need others to fill in the rest.
I think that Arianne wants Dorne more than she wants to marry a Targaryean. I think it will be Sansa who marries him a la Petyr's shenanigans. Plus she would be part of the conquering party to take down Cersei.
It would be really interesting to see how Jon(Aemon) might interact with Aegon if the two managed to exist in the same time frame. Technically speaking, if we assume Aegon is a targaryen. Then Jon and Aegon are half brothers. Given how the two are pretty similar in age, if Aegon takes kingslanding and maybe word reaches him that the lord commander was resurreced with white hair and whatnot. Aegon, being a dumb teenager, might actually summon Jon to kings landing, since others might suddenly piece together the white haired stark bastard is actually rhaegars offspring. Jon con might want to bring Jon closer to them so the two can become freinds and allies. rather than inviting Jon to challenge his claim If we consider this idealistic future. Aegon might have Aemon(if thats Jons targ name) marry sansa stark, to secure the north to their cause. While he tries to remain free for Dany or weds another woman. This kind of power duo of half brothers would be really cool to see, and we can see Aemon try and talk Aegon into taking the white walkers seriously. I know Jon would be focused on the north of the wall, but him taking a more politically active role in the south to speed up the wars end would be really cool.
@@brodyestes2376 I think we will get Jon and Aegon interacting because it would be such a waste, narratively speaking, not to! But Aegon doesn’t have to know Jon’s real parentage for Jon to get sent south. If the Starks re-establish themselves in Winterfell as rulers of the North, I think it’s highly likely someone other than Jon ends up the ruler. He has already refused to usurp his siblings’ claim when offered it by Stannis, and once he knows his true parentage he’ll feel even less of a right to Winterfell. So, if the Starks are now the power in the North and Aegon holds the Iron Throne, it would make sense that the Starks would want to send an emissary south to negotiate with the new king, probably for assistance against the army of the dead. And then, once there, Jon will have all kinds of feelings about having a new big brother after having lost Robb, and then Jon is going to get caught up in the Aegon vs. Dany showdown.
I think Sansa is 100% going to marry Aegon for the reasons you mentioned and more. For starters, Bran is confirmed to be king by the end of the story which is completely nonsensical unless Aegon marries Sansa in which the only next of kin between the two of them is Bran. Also politically it could make even more sense than first thought, since theres likely to be at least one claim to winterfell not just as lord but as a king, those being Jon Snow and Rickon Stark. Aegon would likely want to marry a Stark to push for north/south reunification if the north cecedes again. Lastly in the real life wars of the roses which heavily inspired the outline to ASOIAF, the eldest surviving daughter of house york (Stark) marries the returning Henry Tudor who crosses the narrow sea and their marriage officially puts an end to the fighting and begins the Tudor dynasty
But Henry Tudor was, at least in theory, representing House Lancaster, and that's Lannisters in the story. Wouldn't Targaryens and Aegon be more of a Plantagenet stand ins? To me, Aegon's plot resembles more of one of the pretenders to Henry VII's. He might even be an amalgamation of all of them. And Sansa could still work in that scenario, since one of them convince the Scottish King enough to be given a noble lady to wed. If Aegon pursues an alliance with the King in the North, he might marry Sansa to seal the deal until Dany comes over and offs him. But the main issue it the timeline. Considering where everyone is and the stage of plot development in each area, I cannot see them aligning in time. Before the North is in place to make alliances and trade marriage offers, Aegon's southern story will most likely be concluded. And at this point, Aegon wouldn't get Sansa without Littlefinger sticking his fingers in another pie. I don't know if Petyr would trade his key to the North, Riverlands, and Vale for tentative promises from a young conquer king who has a relative with dragons...
can you link me where GRRM definitively confirms that bran will be king in the book's ending? i've seen it said several times, is it just grrm's original outline, or has he actually said it definitively? i've always hoped that grrm would go completely left of the shitty tv show, so it would suck if we ended up with the same ill-suited half-boy-half-tree king.
I like this idea but Bran would also be Jon's next of kin after Daenerys (assuming faegon is true), so if jon becomes king for a time and has no kids then bran could become king that way
@ragnarrandom7367 it comes from the showrunners confirming which parts of the finale came from George's notes to them. King Bran and burning of Shereen are two of such plot points. I can't remember if this came out in an interview or season 8 commentary, but I am sure there are detailed videos about it :) the destination might be the same but George's route there is bound to be different. And frankly, I hope he will change his mind on some things and also wonder of the overwhelming criticism of the show's ending didn't shake his confidence in his own ending and contributed to the ridiculous delay is Winds coming out.
@@LusiaEyre thank you for that. i put no faith in what the showrunners said, cuz they sucked and their show sucked, but its good to know where the received wisdom came from. i certainly hope that grrm, if ever does manage to finish the series, will take it in a wholly different direction than the show. for me, the show's ending is just fan fiction, and no more (or less) valid than any other ASoIaF fan fiction.
Maybe Aegon will do what the OG Aegon did. Marry Dany (Visenya) for duty and Arriane (Rhaenys) for desire. Dany will give him dragon fire and Arriane will give him an army. Plus, if we buy the idea that Dany will never birth (human) kids again, then Dany might as well make Aegon's kid (with Arriane) her heir.
I'd prefer him pairing with Margeary Tyrell. I think she could also fix him being somewhat of an asshole. I don't see him knocking off cyvass boards around her.
We know YG needs a dragon and therefore I think his bride depends *entirely* on Quent. If Quentyn really is somehow alive...then he prob claims a dragon, meaning YG likely marries Arianne. If Quent is dead, YG needs his dragon elsewhere (Victarion?), but there's not bride that gives him one...if he doesn't get a dragon from his bride he'll need an army...Sansa and the Vale.
Something not mentioned but just as likely, is Aegon taking after his name and taking 2 wives. This is wishful thinking on my part, but I think all the pieces line up. For one, the dragon needs three heads, and he is Aegon reconquering Westeros. If he marries Arianne, then suddenly he has a sexually open first wife who is his cousin. Then he marries another Targaryen who is his aunt. Sister wives it isn't, but the sentiment is there, and a union with Dorne is thematically the most dense of any other wedding. Dorne being so relevant is also why I think Aegon is legitimate, but that is for a different rant.
Even though it’s almost certainly not going to happen, I would love to see my glorious King Aegon VI Blackfyre (the true Azor Ahai) survive the series to reign!!!
It’s gonna be Arianne, she’s so set up, it has to happen. Aegon could fool around with Elia Sand and I do like that parallel with Rhaegar. I hope Arianne survives and marries Willas, I want some happy endings. Also super excited for the Laughing Storm!!! 😂⛈️, Lyonel is gonna be a fan favourite, I guarantee it!
The ASOIAF fanbase takes it as an article of faith that all of Cersei's children will predecease her, the same as happened in the show, but I don't totally get why everyone is so sure of that. I remain unconvinced. Maggy said "gold will be their crowns and gold will be their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." So all of Cersei's children will wear crowns, ok that's totally plausible. Gold will be their shrouds seems to indicate that when they die, they will have very stately, rich funerals. And then Maggy goes straight into when your tears have drowned you. Cersei's tears drowning her seems to be where people pick up the implication that all of her children will die before her, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. I could totally see it being the case that Cersei's tears drowning her will be due to losing Joffrey, losing her power, losing Tywin who she eternally wanted to think highly of her, losing how everyone saw her as being almost divine when she had to do her walk of atonement, Jaime rebuking her, and then possibly also Tommen and/or Myrcella rebuking her. Multiple characters think that neither Tommen nor Myrcella have the same awfulness as Joffrey and Cersei (there have been several characters who say that Tommen is a good boy, in contrast to Joffrey who was already disemboweling cats and abusing his siblings when he was Tommen's age, and Tyrion claims that Myrcella inherited all of her mother's beauty and none of her personality (thank the gods.)) So maybe one or both of Cersei's remaining children will turn against her when they find out how terrible of a person she is.... ooooo and maybe Cersie will be like "they are dead to me waaaaahhhh!" That would be a very GRRM-esque twist for one or both of them to still be alive but dead to the person who the prophecy was about. Also, tangent: going off of Quinn's theory about JonCon possibly going mad from a combination of Greyscale and PTSD at some point: as far as JonCon knows, Myrcella and Tommen are Robert's children, and JonCon has mentioned that his other burning desire other than installing Aegon on the Iron Throne is to see the Usurper's line ended. Given that Myrcella and Tommen are both innocent children, there's no way Aegon would allow them to be executed, but maybe if JonCon goes mad, he will murder one or both in an effort to end Robert's line, in an echo of Rickard Karstark, and that will (by itself or in combination with other actions) cause Aegon to disown his adopted father
While Arianne is the heir to Dorne she's not the only remaining member of the Martell family who can inherit via Dornish customs. All of the Sand Snakes are in the line of succession and while I don't know if Obara, Nymeria, or Tyene are all going to survive Winds and Dream, Sarila and even more likely Elia seem poised to be among those carrying the world narrative beyond the core story (unless the Others just end up winning or something). Oh and Quinn if you're reading this by any chance have you heard about/looked into the ASOIAF minatutes game by CMON? Not sure of your love for and interest in the series extends into the realm of war gaming, but if you're ever looking for future video ideas while we all continue to wait for Winds, I know I'd enjoy hearing your reaction/thoughts to it.
Either Nym or Tyene aren't gonna survive winds. They are going to be in the Vipers Pit very soon, with Nym supposed to sit on the Council to represent Doran. Cersei is never gonna allow her sitting on the council, first and foremost, Nym and Arianne are supposed to be the 2 most beautfiul young ladies in Dorne at the moment, but on top of that Nym is a bastard. And yes, while Cersei allowed Aurane Waters for a brief time, he did eventually betray her.
@@J..P.. Honey, it quite literally the point of the story, that feudalism and monarchy are bad, hell i bet the books are (if released) gonna end in a people's revolution and the seven kingdom because a united republic (or at least something close to it)
@@NikolaiOrelovGNR didnt get that at all from the books...to the contrary the realities of the setting are portrait without any random modernist cultural heroes showing everyone how bad the political arrangement is for me it makes sense that if the 2 or 3 supposed Targs wont be able to actually win, then balkanisation happens cause the idea of that realm hinges on blood and personal kingship with ony the Watch and now the Faith being independent of that but since both are in the mids of major turmoils, I don't believe them to have the universalist influence that would be needed to keep the kingdoms together
An Aegon-Sansa match could be combined with Sansa going North. They could make an alliance on the condition that Sansa is able to win the North to Aegon's cause, which would mean taking back Winterfell and negotiating with the Northern lords on Aegon's behalf, complicating the situation there even further. I don't see them actually ending up marrying, but even the possibility could mean interesting things for her character; having to choose between becoming Aegon's queen vs. supporting an independent North, for example. She'd be a great candidate for Aegon, as she has connections to the Vale, the North, and even the Riverlands through Catelyn and Robb.
Sansa is the most parallel to Aegon: > Both snucked out of King's Landing(allegedly) > Both dyed their hair to conceal their "true" identity > Both have foster fathers with birds on their sigils > Said foster father is in-love to one of their parents Plus Sansa is Ice and Aegon is Fire. Their true hair color is opposite of their supposed element, fire red(auburn) for icy Sansa and white as snow for fiery Aegon. Like Yin and Yang. A Song of Ice and Fire is the story of the circumstances of how they eventually met. YouLaine (Young Griff + Alaine) is the way to go and George knows it.
Regarding Sansa - imho it all depends what LF knows about Varys plans. I think there are a handful of times where the two definitely work together on major moves that help both their causes (personally, i think purple wedding is such a case) but they clearly don't know the full picture of each other's plans but are paying attention to the others moves - I could see LF consolidating all this power for Sansa as a marriage proposal move for faegon
I really believe that it will be Sansa. They have a lot of parallels, and a marriage would really move the story forward. Sansa can be the YMBQ, which is very ironic. She is the only Stark that doesn’t have a Winterfell POV, it feels as though her story is meant to be about the south. With how she is developing into a political player, it won’t mean anything if she goes North, since the North is literally gonna be ground zero of an apocalypse.
Yeah I’d say Sansa’s parallels of Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Harding, and Targaryen only make sense if we say Joffery counts as a presumed Baratheon, even if he wasn’t actually. Marrying a presumed Targaryen in Young Griff keeps that precedent going, rather than doing the opposite by marrying the presumed Stark Jon. But counterpoint that Dunk and Egg book was written quite early on and plans may have changed so :/
The issue with the Ashford victors being evidence of Sansa's betrothed is that she was kinda sorta briefly betrothed to Sweetrobin: "How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?" (Sansa VI ASoS). And if you say that doesn't count because there was no formal betrothal and it only lasted 2 Sansa chapters, then Sansa's betrothal to Garlan Tyrell should also be discounted on the same grounds. Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardyng and Targaryen... this is just a list of great houses, plus Hardyng. I think if anything, it foreshadows Harry the Heir's death via tourney, similar to Humfrey Hardyng at Ashford?
Arianne wanted Dorne and was afraid Quentyn will steal it from her but now she knows that she could get something better: the 7 kingdoms. She believes King Quentyn sound weird so she probably is going to be like "Dorne is yours, brother. I'm going to be queen."
I actually think the Targaryen for Sansa might be Jon if he is Rhaegar's son by Lyanna. Now, I won't say this would be a love match, but done to stabilize their claim in the North since she is Eddard's seemingly only living heir and he would be one of the last living males of House Stark, and being married to Jon would prevent anymore creeps from trying to lay claim to her and her lands.
There actually IS a place in the ASOIAF world called Bonetown (if it exists; it is allegedly to the east of Yi Ti, so very, very few people from Westeros or the Free Cities ever go there, and even fewer ever come back.) No references to the Bone Zone........ YET!
Not only would it legitimise Jon as King in the North in a similar way to a Aegon/Dany union does in the South, but in GRRM’s original plan had a Jon\Arya/Tyrion love triangle. Jon marrying Sansa, who was once married to Tyrion might be the ‘updated’ version of this plan.
@@wandaXmaximoff Personally, I think they'll fall in love before they marry (to subvert Sansa's lament that everyone only wants her for her claim), i.e. at the point that they marry, Jon won't be pressing his claim to the kingship any longer (partially due to the parentage reveal but also because he's already proven that he is unwilling to step in front of Sansa or any of his other siblings in the line of succession). I'm guessing that they'll have Rickon and/or Bran back at that point and will be united in supporting their younger brother's claim. Marrying Sansa would also be personally fulfilling for Jon because it allows him to become a true Stark as he's always dreamed of. On Sansa's end, not only would she be marrying for love, but she'd also be marrying someone she won't have to worry will use her against her family to take Winterfell and the North for himself, plus it protects her from yet again becoming her family's pawn for political marriage (aka, what Ned did to her the moment we first learned of her existence in the series). So, I envision it being a secret wedding before the heart tree (Jacaerys/Sara Snow style, and also as foreshadowed by Jon's dreams of making love with Ygritte in the godswood) rather than a publicized, political one.
Honestly, I'm pretty confident that Cersei will blow up the sept of Baelor. It just wont be anywhere nearly as effective in killing her enemies. I'd even put money on her failing to blow up anyone important, just burning the people.
Yeah Arianne is probably the most likely to marry Aegon. As for who will be king in the end I say a legitimised Edric Storm will swoop in and take the throne as the compromise candidate after every other claimant has died or resigned.
I think Arianne + Aegon does make the most sense, though it will grieve me to see Dorne suffer even more. Myrcella would be a very interesting choice, and becoming Aegon's bride and then getting wiped by Dany could be how she goes out. Arianne already tried to make her queen once. Why not again? I do think you're right, though, that she is pretty far down the list of likely candidates. I also agree that Jon makes more sense as Sansa's Targaryen suitor than Aegon does, largely because of geography, but also because, like, for a political marriage to Sansa to be beneficial to Aegon, he'd have to retake the North and Winterfell first. He doesn't have that kind of leeway right now. He needs a marriage that can get him an army and the backing of a powerful house/region immediately. Anyway, I'm ultimately rooting for the Iron Throne to be abolished after the destruction of KL, Dorne and the North to become independent kingdoms, and Bran-as Robb's heir and thus heir to the kingdom of the Trident-to rule over the remaining kingdoms from Harrenhal in the Riverlands. So...I don't really care too much who's temporarily on the Iron Throne in TWOW. XD
I support Faegon just because I think it'll be great if he's a blackfyre and Dany destroys him and Arriane in an effort to destroy the grey scale and an opposing claim. Cersei will turn this to propaganda against Dany with the remaining lords of westeros
I don't get why everyone thinks Dany is some sort of misunderstood savior. She isn't. She's a conqueror. Conquest is bloody and violent and George is well aware of this, which is why Dany will be a villainous figure. The whole Dany the savior motif flies in the face of everything George stands for. He will not suddenly portray a brutal conquest as some sort of heroic but misunderstood act. It will be fire and blood. Death and destruction.
From the perspective of the people being conquered? Absolutely. And let's keep in mind here that we are talking about literature and I am using the term from a literary perspective. And yes, Aegon the conqueror would have been a villainous figure who became idolized and made a hero by posterity. We have historical people whom we idolize and provide the epithets of "the great", "the conqueror" etc. and by doing so, we overlook the atrocities they committed. I believe this is George's underlying theme, I don't necessarily agree with it in entirety, but it is the position of the author. "When the high lords play their game of thrones, people suffer". So all I'm saying here, is that Dany's conquest will not be this "liberating heroine" narrative as presented in the show. George will want to make it clear that to be a conqueror is to leave a trail of death and destruction in your wake. The heel turn and sack of KL flopped in the show, largely because they white washed her conquest to begin with and it seemed out of character. When she does it in the books, it will have precedent. She will not be evil for evil sake, as this is too simplistic a narrative, but she will absolutely be a force for destruction and chaos and will be hated and feared for it. She has the potential to be the perfect villain, precisely because she is a complex character who is loved by a large section of the fandom.
I hope Aegon and Dany get along and fight the Greyjoys. Dany bled at the end of A Dance with Dragons but it is not known if she can give birth to healthy children, and she and him are one of the last remaining dragons. Although Aegon is Blackfire, he still feels descended from the dragon lords of Valyria.
It'll probably be Arianne but honestly I think it would be so much cinema if he ended up with Shireen, like the Mannis dies at some point but his most loyal men still hold Dragonstone and try to carry on his will of putting his daughter in the Throne, and so Aegon decides to marry her to gain help from Stannis' men... Unlikely to happen and kinda fanficy but I think that would be kino.
Arianne seducing Aegon and forcing him into a marriage (paralleling Robb and Jeyne Westerling) which causes a second Dance of the dragons between Aegon and Dany and ruins JonCon's plans makes for the best story.
I think it'll be Arianne. HASHTAG TEAM ARIANNE! It's symbolic, it's politically savvy... We stan. Griff is in his isekai anime era. I hope you keep Love Island Westeros a thing. Whose claim am I supporting ? In theory no one's, in practice Stannis just for the meme of it all and because of Davos. I know that he'll probably never win nor live for long but the memes... They won me over.
I want to see sansa and aegon become a thing entirely so jon can find out and go like “what the fuck sansa his grandfather literally killed our grandfather”. Presumably followed by Daenerys bursting in and declaring aegon isnt her nephew he’s a blackfyre, then followed by bran appearing and telling them that not only is jon a targ but also the white walkers are here.
what if griff capture and mary myrcella, making her queen ( gold shall be their crowns) cause she can’t die before becoming queen. Then arianne or better yet elia kills her to free him to mary arianne
Aegon and Elia Sand, the girl like Lyanna in Arianne's sample chapters, which will drive Connington crazy. And like Robb Stark, a bad marriage choice will doom Aegon's kingdom, because while it will force Dorne to fight for Doran to defend his family, but the bad choice by Aegon will cause Daenerys to be against him. I don't think Arianne will be as reckless as we might think; she is a zoomer (23) and has gone character growth. And we all know that Cersei is going to become JonCon's cousin, once removed-in-law in truly demented fashion.
Disappointed we didn't get any love for the obvious choice: Glimbus Ausstark I want a Dance of the Dragons and the show has Dorne side with the Targs, so I'm guessing Aegon+Dorne v Dany+Reach.
I 100% believe Cersei will try to woo or seduce Aegon, only to fail and cause her self image crisis to spiral even further.
I find that a little creepy - she's old enough to be his mother
@@Lionstar16she was cool with sleeping with Lancel lol
Her having a mental breakdown and seeing revived Rhaegar in Aegon in his moment of triumph would’ve been a cool move on Martin’s side, especially if his legitimacy remains open for the reader to decide.
@@carsonrhoads2842 Don't remind me 😨
@Lionstar16 didn't she litterly also think of seducing her son Joffrey
If Cersei sees Faegon and Arianne together that’s probably gonna cause her to go even more crazy especially if she gets Rhaegar and Elia 2.0 vibes and believes Arianne could be the younger more beautiful queen.
Interesting
@@ACinemafanatic idk, Cersei loves Rhaegar quite a bit. You never know what she is gonna do next
@@justdirtshe was crazy for him lol but knowing how vindictive she is she might snap at just seeing Arianne and Faegon together especially since Aerys took away her dream of being with Rhaegar. But it would be extra ironic that she would be taken down by dany since in the books she looks exactly like him
might even lead to the reveal that it was Cersei who ordered the mountain to kill Elia. Tywin claims, in private to Tyrion, Elia was suppose to be a hostage.
Honestly everything is gonna make Cersei more crazy
"Vibe check from Auntie Dany" is *chef's kiss*
The two top candidates are his cousin and his aunt lol
Keeping it in the family
Stay classy, George.
Targaryens, am I right?
Fuckin Targs.
This is all the proof you need to know that Aegon is a true Targaryen
The idea that Arianne survives is crazier than most theories, namely because Martin established a pattern that every single time that Doran Martell engages in revenge schemes, one of his loved ones dies. In this way he is killing his family to avenge his family. Doran sends Oberyn in his place to King's Landing, Oberyn dies. Doran sends Quentyn to Meereen, Quentyn dies. Doran sends Arianne to parlay with the Golden Company, Arianne is going to die. This even repeats with Arianne getting Arys Oakheart killed with her hairbrained scheme that had a 0% chance of succeeding. The Sand Snakes being sent to King's Landing is similarly going to end with most, if not all of them, dead.
The element of overripe blood oranges falling to the ground and splattering in Doran's first scene is really telling symbolism. What else is telling is Ellaria outright giving a speech detailing the moral of the Dorne plot. This is Martin's way of saying, "REVENGE BAD."
I think is more than that:
Oberyn didn't die cause he failed to face the Mountain, he died cause he tried to get a confession out of him.
Quentyn didn't die cause he failed to get Danerys, he died cause he couldn't accept it.
Doran's plans are the demonstration of what happens when you never take advantage of oportunities before they are gone.
Being reckless is as dangerous as being too cautious
Let’s not forget one key benefit Arianne can give to Aegon. He has the Conqueror’s name, and through Illyrio will probably come to wield the Conqueror’s sword. All he needs now is the Conqueror’s crown. And where was it last seen? Dorne. With that, all he’ll need is to be anointed by the High Sparrow in sight of the people, and every symbol of legitimacy will belong to him.
Except the dragons.
Guy is a blackfyre. it is known.
it is known
@@ambermarshall2922 Even if he is a Blackfyre, he can still claim a dragon.
Arianne is his cousin she would have no reason to withhold the conqueror's crown to force a marriage
@@KaiHung-wv3ul if he doesn't team up to Dany, he'll have no opportunity at a dragon.
The bride will be the wildfire.
But seriously, it would be interesting to marry Princess Myrcella. She is legally a Baratheon and this could work as a compromise for peace in order to unite the blood of Rhaegar and Robert (lol). I imagine Young Griff and Myrcella parading through the streets of King's Landing surrounded by a cheering crowd.
And Myrcella is under Dornish influence, not Lannister.
I saw a theory saying that Myrcella is the queen that will end Cercei because she is very pretty and smart. So Cercei out of jealousy will end her own daughters life which in turn will make Jaimie end hers
@knightofrigel Myrcella is already betrothed to Trystane Martell and they seem like a really cute couple. I just want Myrcella to be happy, she goes through it in the books.
@@justdirt Betrothals can be broken or simply ignored and unfortunately Myrcella is doomed in TWOW.
I better be invited to my boy Young Griff's marriage😄 Whoever he chooses will be very lucky Young Griff is a stud.
Your skull will be there, at least
@QuinnTheGM As it should be😄 Just need a cup of blackberry wine during the wedding.
As it will be a fake Targaryen wedding I imagine there will be plenty of Arbor Gold.
atleast your skull will be somewhere maybe they will have special chair next to king...
ill invite you nw
@13:38 Also, don't forget that Arianne is gorgeous, which could definitely influence Aegon, whether consciously or unconsciously. At the close of ADWD / beginning of TWOW, Aegon is 18 or 19- at that age, he'll VERY MUCH still be a hormonal teenager. And given that he has been living in hiding his whole life, it's entirely possibly he has never had a romantic or sexual relationship before. So when he meets this beautiful, powerful, charismatic, slightly-older woman (she's 24 to his 18,) who comes from a culture where both romantic love and sex are much less repressed than in the rest of Westeros, it's absolutely possible we will see him thinking with the head between his legs rather than the one between his ears
Never. Aegon is a man of the Faith, who would never despoil himself that way.
Nah, Aegon grew up beyond the sea with a troop of mercenaries. He has seen exotic beauties every day and very probably had a lot of experience already, as a young dashing "prince"- "leader" of the famous mercenary troops. What he has never seen in his life - is a true Seven kingdoms Rose.
Which also happens to have a large army, supplies and logistics that hold the Lannister rule up. Take the Rose, get Kingslanding, destroy Lannisters and get the Reach in one swoop. Then marry Arianne as a second wife and proclaim yourself King, and then see whats going on with Littlefinger rule in the Trident and the Vale.
Marrying Arianne first would only give him Dorne and a war against Tyrells and Lannisters together.
@@DiversDesign In terms of storytelling I definitely really like the idea of Aegon taking 2 wives like Aegon the Dragon did. GRRM loves the "history has a rhyme to it like a song" trope
The Martell's do have dragon rider genes so it make sense. Or maybe he will re establish the classic Targaryen-Velaryons couple
@@viewer8734Had one of Elia’s children or both actually survived the sack of Kingslanding, perhaps they could’ve become dragon riders on account of Rhaegar’s Targaryen genes and Elia’s Martell genes combination. I think the Targaryen blood in Arienne wouldn’t be strong enough just like with Quentyn. Young Griff is still more likely to possess some dragon rider genes than she is since House Blackfyre is a branch off from House Targaryen so he may be able to ride a dragon anyway.
The smartest choice longterm is to wait for Danny, the best choice short term is to pick Arianne for Dorne, but he might alienate some great houses with that choice, he could pick Margery if Tommen dies or the Tyrell’s switch sides but idk
i often fantasize about the days where people like you, Alt and Glidus and all the lore content creators are yapping about my universe. ugh, what a life. until then, i'll keep writing and watching for hope.
Same, brother.
@@ambitiousfilmbro sis but you didn't know that lmaoo. but i wish you godspeed on your journey and that your endeavors become fruitful 💕
@@hellcomplexMy bad 😅. Thank you and I wish the same for you as well 🫶
Get those stories out there, all the luck and strength to you!!!
WE'LL GET THERE ONE DAY.
Fantasy is almost inherently romantic because it engages directly with the concerns of the Romantic (note capitalisation) poets; indeed the modern genre is basically a reiteration of the original Romantic movement for a reading culture based around long-format prose. A Song of Ice and Fire is a really good example of this in action.
Malora Hightower aka the Mad Maid? She's got some spooky magic and prophecy stuff which Targaryens love, the Hightowers could be their "friends in the Reach", and apparently George planned to introduce the Hightowers as a major faction in AFFC (but he kinda failed at that). She is the eldest daughter though so she might be super old for Aegon
Good option that I wish I’d discussed!
6:15 I don't see the Sand Snakes killing Tommen, I see fAegon capturing Tommen and then deciding to execute him, and justifying it with a "the Lannisters killed my sister Rhaenys". To enhance the parallel, Tommen like Rhaenys lives a second life in his kitten and causes mischief in the Red Keep. Big thematic thing with vengeance begetting vengeance begetting vengeance, making people do terrible things (killing children) and also exacting vengeance on the wrong people (the people who killed Rhaenys are dead; Tommen had nothing to do with it - he wasn't even born then!)
It would never happen for so many reasons, but you clarifying the assumption of Aegon being straight made me realise how interesting that not being the case could be.
Namely, that it would be an opportunity for JonCon to work through more of his feelings for Rhaegar and to especially confront how he has remembered poor Elia Martell - his working to convince Aegon of the importance of not following the heart and marrying for the sake of his cause would be a really interesting lens for his character to develop in.
And that kind of heartwarming positive change is the exact opposite direction JonCon is moving in, but it’s nice to think about.
Honestly JonCon being able to open up and reflect with someone who mirrors him about what has consumed his life is such an interesting way to
Go, will he find closure, will it only strengthen him
@@dunbass7149 yeah nah that opens so much perverse fanfic ideas im sick we already have mf paring underaged characters in hotd we aint need this
Muh Queen
Aegon wants it
'I am Darkstar and i am of the night'
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night."*
Maybe not Aegon but Jon Connington marrying Cersei would be such a weirdly fitting choice ... their dramas fit together so nicely, Cersei father-complex, brother-complex, golden hand, hand of the king, Jon Con's Hand, her male/female inferiority/superiority gender-crossing thing with Jon Connington's implied romantic interests and both being in Love with Rhaegar ... the red and the gold with the gold and the red... the Golden Wedding would be DRAMA especially when our Jon hears the WEDDING BELLS
I wouldn't be surprised if Arianne and Aegon ended up together, but I actually don't think it will be as useful as either one of them thinks it will.
For one, JonCon seems to think Dorne will rally for them without a marriage, all for Elia's sake. In fact, the letter he sends to Dorne in the sample chapter specifically doesn't offer _anything_ but revenge in return for their spears. From JonCon's point of view, Dorne is already a guaranteed supporter - why waste Aegon's one chance at forming an alliance on them?
Additionally, though untouched, Dorne is only about half as strong as everything thinks; we're told for a long time that the number of Dornish spears is 50,000, but then it's later revealed by Doran that the actual number is closer to 30,000. Aegon would be marrying someone who potentially might have supported him anyway, but will not get the force he thinks he's been promised, and likely won't be happy.
Also, though Aegon is definitely a typical teenage boy, he's specifically a typical ASOIAF teenage boy - he's a bit sexist. The idea that Dany would want the throne for herself or that she could be the rightful heir and not him (The Mad King actually disinherited Aegon and made Viserys his rightful heir) seems to never occur to him. Hell, we see that the idea that she wouldn't even want to marry him never occurs to him until Tyrion points it out as a possibility. Arianne is beautiful, and certainly knows how to get things from men with her sexuality, but she's also had to deal with sexist men her whole life. Marrying Aegon would just make her play second fiddle to am arrogant man, something she most certainly does not want. Though of course, she does like handsome young men and power, so maybe she'll ignore the red flags like how she later admitted she did with Dark Star.
And finally, I don't think Dorne overall will be happy with an Arianne/Aegon pairing. Doran especially seems to really hate the Targaryens, and he should. He lost his beloved sister because her Targaryen husband seemingly abandoned her to screw an-already engaged, barely legal girl (to say nothing of the history the Rhoynish have had with the Valyrians). The Quentyn quest was unnecessarily dangerous and under-resourced, not to mention it's just crazy to assume that a marriage pact between Arianne and Viserys would somehow transfer to Quentyn and Dany. Even Arianne's quest to meet Aegon is NOT the sort of group you'd send if you were hoping to impress a young prince into marrying your daughter - it's filled with non-significant houses and a bastard girl who carries Aegon's supposed mother's name, for goodness sake. Clearly, Doran does NOT want to leave a good impression on Aegon, and certainly does not want to see his daughter and heir embroiled in the carnival of craziness that is the game of thrones. Like you said, she'd definitely be in harms way.
Basically I think if they did marry, Aegon would be upset that his new wife hAs oPiNiOnS!!!?? and would feel betrayed when it's revealed that Dorne is not as strong as they claimed. Arianne would realize she's saddled with someone who is a glorified puppet who studied all the right books but whose path to kingship was absolutely not at all his own doing. The crown would miss out on a far better match, whether Danny or Sansa or Maergery in terms of political importance, and Dorne would likely have to relive the horror of Elia/Rhaegar, as Aegon probably will be far from an ideal husband/political leader.
All this to say, I really enjoyed this video, haven't seen a video about this topic and I loved thinking about it!
Using this vid to spread Myrcella propaganda cause I'm reading the boiled leather order for feast and dance and just got back to Arianne's first chapter. Myrcella is so sweet and nice, her and Tommen are just nice cute kids and I want them to be happy lol
It will be Wylla Manderly. It is known. As for who I support, it will be Stannis... unless the Young Wolf's heir is found, mayhaps?
I genuinely love your channel, literally the only reason i care a bit about ASOIAF after no book for so many years
I don't think Arianne is off to fAegon to propose an alliance with her marrying him. That might be Doran's plan but I don't think Arianne will do that.
fAegon winning means Tommen will be dead, leaving Myrcella as the last Baratheon heir. A common idea we see a lot in history and fiction is that to mend the wounds of conflict one person from each side will marry. Also what better way for FAegon to seal the throne than by marrying the last Baratheon, not only giving him two claims to the throne but it would leave no one for an opposition to rally behind.
fAegon marrying Arianne will win him Dorne's loyalty, but marrying Myrcella will win him the entire nation, while still making Dorne the primary ally for arranging it.
And who currently controls that possibility? Well, Myrcella is in Dornish hands right now.
Arianne's story is about her wanting Dorne, and she's already hatched a plan to make Myrcella queen.
I think the marriage that Arianne is going to propose is not to her but to Myrcella.
I find it strange how few people consider this option.
People dismiss Myrcella due to the prophesy that she will die.
But George loves to have double meanings. "Gold will be their crowns" is usually taken to mean hair colour as a way to show their true parentage. But it could also be literal. Two of the three have already been crowned, so it's not much to assume the third will be too.
The problem is that marrying Myrcella might be a good from a political standpoint, but if he takes the Throne, the only options are Margaery and Arianne, as Myrcella is only 10 in the books and as such cannot bear him children yet, while Arianne is 24 and Margaery is 16.
@@nickdentoom1173 We've been shown several times that in the world of Ice and Fire young age isn't that big a problem, especially not for the powerful families.
Tommen is younger and is married (it's explicitly stated that he's too young for bedding. If his marriage is for alliances because he's the Baratheon claimant, and children can wait a few years, then the same reasoning applies to Myrcella too because she'll become the claimant herself), Arya was that young when her marriage was arranged (the politics of the marriage mattered, not kids), Laena Velaryon was only a little older when offered in marriage (and it's stated they would wait before kids), Tyrek Lannister married a baby. Those are the ones I can instantly think of.
Children can wait, as is repeatedly shown. What matters most is the politics and alliances that the marriage would bring. Myrcella offers more politically than either Arianne or Margaery, they would only bring a single kingdom each while Myrcella could bring them all, even his enemies.
@@Valkanna.Nublet While Myrcella would bring more politically, Arianna/Margaery can produce instant heirs for Aegon, which is far more important in the short term, especially with Dany being the other claimant. Aegon getting a child, would mean Dany's claim would be diminished even further, making it so more houses in Westeros actually want to follow Aegon instead of Dany.
@@nickdentoom1173 The houses in Westeros break down into 3 basic groups:
1: Those that won't follow either Baratheon or Targaryen. (That doesn't automatically mean they all like each other, just that they don't like those specific two ruler options)
2: Those who support Baratheon. They currently follow Tomen, but in the event of his death they will follow Myrcella. If both are killed there's a chance that some will just revolt against tyrant ruler.
3: Those that support Targaryens. Which means they have to chose between two options:
a: Aegon. He has a better claim, he's male, unmarried so available for alliances, he has westerosi advisors, and is currently supported by Westerosi and the decendents of Westerosi.
b: Dany. She has the worst claim, is female, married to a foreigner and slaver, she has advisors who are Westerosi but who are also traitor (Barristan) murderer/ regicide (Tyrion) and slaver (Jorah), she has an army of foreign barbarians and slave soldiers (Yes she freed them but people know that the Unsullied are slaves), and she has dragons.
Comparing Aegon and Dany literally the only thing Dany has going for her are the dragons (and reader loyalty), every single other point is in Aegon's favour.
There's not a single point that changes by Aegon having kids, he doesn't need kids to make his claim better, he's already winning by far.
Plus I'd be picky and saying that at least a year for the birth to make sure the child is male, if not longer if it's female, is not particularly 'short term'. Whereas marrying Myrcella is an action that has immediate effects.
Yes, Aegon is probably fake and Dany will reveal him. However, no one knows that right now, not even Aegon himself, so it has absolutely no effect on current political reasoning. (Just like most of the theorising and assuming that us readers do)
If Aegon marries Arianne or Margaery he will win one single kingdom to his cause (and Dorne would likely join him anyway to fight the Lannisters) and it won't win the war because the Baratheon faction will still be fighting him, there will still be a Baratheon claimant, or just plain anti-tyrant revolt.
If Aegon marries Myrcella then he gains all the Baratheon supporters, as well as still having Dorne in a favoured position for aranging it. He ends that war.
In fact, marrying Myrcella before Tommen is even dead could immediately win over some of the Baratheon supports who hate that the current regime is so heavily influenced by Cercei, Margaery, and others. They get to turn away from the current regime while still claiming loyalty to King Robert's legacy.
@@Valkanna.Nubletwhile these are all excellent points and it’s true Dany really has nothing going for her, Varys will certainly have heard of Daenerys growing brutality as much as her mercy. And she has the dragons. It’s much easier to depose or kill one person than it is a whole family, therefore it may still be within Aegon’s best interests to produce as many heirs as possible before Daenerys arrives. After all, as Varys well knows, babies are very easy to disappear and fake the deaths of.
Alternatively, given the same information about Dany, Varys may be planning to marry Aegon and Dany in order to appease her. She still gets the throne (albeit as Queen consort) and the realm is finally at peace.
I know who Sansa’s Targaryen suitor isn’t the point of this video, but another point in Jon’s favour is GRRM’s original plan that had a Jon\Arya/Tyrion love triangle. Jon marrying Sansa, who was once married to Tyrion might be the ‘updated’ version of this plan.
My thoughts exactly. I know a lot of people hate the idea of Jon and Sansa being married, but it could very well happen. Their marriage could also be key to unifying the north.
@@MarieCurtis92it also mirrors Eddard and Catelyn
Not that I personally think it will or should happen
@@MarieCurtis92 No, there is a lot of people who ship Jonsa, mainly show watchers. But the books have hints of Arya if anyone. Either Dany or Arya, definitely not Sansa.
Don't see how that "could very well happen".
@@Ilive_420 Well, my money's on both Arya and Dany dying. Sooo... to each their own.
Regarding the illegitimacy/subterfuge/falsehood(s) theme of Sansa's suitors, it actually goes even deeper than what Quinn talks about:
---Joffrey "Baratheon" is not a Baratheon
---Margaery and Olenna plot to marry Sansa to Willas Tyrell in secret
---Tyrion Lannister's marriage to Sansa is a marriage that both the bride and the groom are forced into against their respective wills, and is currently not [official? Ratified? Made legitimate? Whatever term you want to use] because it remains unconsummated. Oh and Sansa doesn't know it's happening until the day of the wedding so you could count that as a secret betrothal as well
---Harold Hardyng thinks he is betrothed to Alayne Stone, natural daughter of Petyr Baelish, when in reality she is Sansa Stark, and it is for this reason that Littlefinger has made sure only a small select few people even know about the engagement, because he plans to go public with the betrothal in combination with going public about Alayne's real identity. So we have a double-whammy of secret identity + secret betrothal there
Therefore, BOTH the fact that Aegon has spent his entire life under an assumed identity of Young Griff, son of Griff (not only is he not Griff's biological son, but Griff is another alias) AND the fact that neither the readers, nor anyone in-universe (except for Varys, and possibly Illyrio, but even then, what firsthand knowledge Illyrio possesses about Aegon is dependent on what Aegon's real identity is- son of Rhaegar, son of Illyrio, son of Illyrio + nephew of Varys, other random Blackfyre descendent, OR SOMEONE ELSE- so the only certain person is Varys) are positive about who Aegon really is, would both contribute to the fact that if Aegon and Sansa get betrothed, it would VERY MUCH fit with Sansa's romantic theme
Although fair point by Quinn, if she and Jon get together, this would all still fit, since Jon is a Targaryen, fulfilling the last of the Ashford champions, but no one except for Ned and Howland Reed knew Jon's parentage, and now just Howland does, so we have the secrets theme continuing as well
I dont think Littlefinger will reveal Sansa ro Harry, it would give him and Sansa too much power and independence. I think he is only baiting them with his lowborn daughter Alayne, while he plans to keep Sansa for himself. The play for the Riverrun will give it all a perfect pretext, once Riverrun gets taken over by the Outlaws and Freys get all murdered (that should be a certaainty at this point) it will be too much for Littlefinger to resist - especially compared to the situation in the North at this time and probable Stannis Baratheon - North loyalists victory against the Boltons. (Not that Boltons ruling the North would be good for Littlefinger in any way). Which would be only followed by the fall of the Wall and the Long Night. He is even officially Lord Paramount of the whole region including the Riverrun and its lands, so it will be his duty to "restore justice" and in the process also take Riverrun and Catelyns young beautiful daughter for himself. And then get to claim North through marriage. Petyr Baleish Lord of the Riverrun and the Vale and the North... maybe even a King Littlefinger the First. Hmm- hm!
To me Aegon represents a pre-Baratheon Westeros, with all its greatness and its shortcomings. He’ll show up with his Dornish wife and a Dayne on his kingsguard rocking that silver hair. But with his arrival he brings out the secrets of the dynasty before him, like the wildfire caches underneath the city. He represents their fall from power while Daenerys represents their rise to it.
hes gonna get the first gay asoiaf wedding
I know this is an aegon video but I love when you talk about all of the female characters in got - they are all so amazing and complex thanks for ur analysis as always
My endgame is reverse 3 heads of the dragon. Daenerys is Aegon reborn, and takes both Jon and Aegon as her Visenya and Rhaenys.
Gross.
@@J..P.. Why?
That’s messed up but I’m here for it way more than the end of the TV show! 😂
@BrainyBlonde21 I feel like it's still one of the more tame unions in Westeros
Jon is not Dany’s to take and neither is Aegon, both of them are really willful and being two sidekicks for some self-proclaimed queen is totally out of character for them.
2:22 I like to think it's Stannis Baratheon. I take a bit from Lord of the Rings and Stannis is like King Theoden with ending of Aragorn who ended up crowned as King of Gondor. The story started with Ned Stark wants to put Stannis in Iron Throne in A Game of Thrones should be paid off with Stannis on the Iron Throne in A Dream of Springs (or atleast for a short period of time).
I thought you were saying he’d marry Stannis for a second
@@QuinnTheGM TBF Stannis is a "duty first" kind of guy so if that's what the realm needs...
Wrong Baratheon brother for that bro
@@QuinnTheGM Well, atleast on his bed, they wouldn't die a maiden.😂
Stannis will never sit the iron throne he will die in the north
Bro, marry them all to “unite them realm” 😉
Make the eighth
Marrying each girl from each region, Aegon VI 'The Chad'
I have seen fanfiction with this concept (some even going with Targaryens doing that starting with Aegon the Conqueror).
Almost all of them were smut.
@@gokbay3057 marrying includes consummation lmao
I’m of a mind that Aegon will refuse Arianne, he is her cousin, he is half Martel, by rights they should give him their swords anyways as their only option and I think this characterisation as Aegon as a bit of an idiot is inaccurate, what he is is ambitious and guess what Tyrion’s advice was entirely correct as proven by what happened to Quentyn, a very deliberate parallel.
I will marry Aegon
Elia Sand is a name I've seen thrown around a bit for marrying Aegon after seducing him before Arianne is able to.
I agree. I think it will be Elia sand!
If I were him I'd marry Arianne, she's hot, smart and the princess of Dorne
She's used up, a dwarf and dumb...but she is a princess, so I'll give you that one.
@@J..P.. dwarf?
@@hunorfarkas6531she’s like 5 feet tall or something
@@J..P..yeah exactly, in Westerosi culture Arianne is “sullied” and a lot older than Aegon. The only thing making her a desirable match is that she’s had no bastards, which might indicate that she’s infertile. Plus she’s the heir to Dorne
@@billychops1280 Okay so that means roughly 152 cm-s. That's not a midget though,the average height for women in the USA is 161 cm (5 ft 3). compared to that,5 foot is below average,but not a midget. Another few interesting statistics: The average height for women in Spain and Morocco (The two countries Dorne was inspired by) is 159 cm (5 ft 2) and the average height for women in Sri Lanka is exactly 152 cm (5 ft),meaning that even with nowadays standard,there are places she would be average. Which is insane,considering diet and nutritions were way worse back then,keeping people from a growth spurt
Aegon's gonna say fuck it and marry a woods witch
I think Ariana will tell aegon that her brother Quinton was burned by Daenerys
"Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone"
And now Sansa is hiding under the name Alayne Stone
It’s going to be Elia Sand. She’s traveling with Arianne, she’s named after the woman that Young Griff thinks was his mother, they’re basically the same age, and she has all the Lyanna Stark signifiers (wild, loves horses, trains with a lance).
Young Griff has already picked a Kingsguard knight without asking JonCon’s approval. That sets up him impetuously getting married. And given that he’s a king in his own mind, he could even legitimize her before the wedding. Just assume Young Griff is hosting a feast after taking Storm’s End, Arianne and JonCon have already made the deal to do the marriage, but at the very end of the chapter, Faegon announces the legitimacy of Elia and tells the whole crowd they’re getting married right now.
Tell me that’s not how GRRM ends a big chapter, because that is exactly how he ends a big chapter.
Maegor Targaryen (son of Aerion) is the one I support for the Targaryen claim.
You are a man of culture for supporting King Maekar's true heir! But wait...Mr. Attucks, aren't you anti-monarchy?
@@Lord_of_Karhold Anti-British monarchy.
Gonna throw out a dark horse option here, Talla Tarly. If the Golden Company have friends in the Reach, who better than the military leader who bested Robert in the Rebellion? He isn’t as high of a name as the others, but he’s still a notable name from a house with a Valyrian steel sword. We know Randyll dismisses the news of Jon Con and the Golden Company, perhaps because he’s working with them. His loyalty to Mace is a complication, but perhaps he’s finding a way to help the Tyrells from behind the scenes in case things go bad for the current crown.
Well, I think more about eloping with Elia Sand, both Elia and Lyanna paralles at once.
Great video. I like your thoughts on this
I could see him marrying Daenerys due to Targaryns having marriage rules similar to those of the average red state. Strategically, Sansa makes the most sense, and it also works with how Littlefinger seems to be setting her up to be a master manipulator. I could also see Cersei attempting to woo him, and getting pretty far with it, and then failing.
Margery probably won't be it unless something happens to Tommen.
If Dany sets King's Landing on fire in the books like she did in the show, then it makes sense that Cersei is married to Aegon.
Although I believe Sansa's future is northwards, GRRM might be setting up another Elia, Rhaegar, Lyanna triangle with Arianne, Aegon, Sansa.
However it would be a twisted, reversed version of the original triangle.
Like Arianne is the opposite of Elia. She is the oldest of the three and quite confident and firey. Sansa is nothing like Lyanna (Arya is taking after Lyanna). And Aegon is not Rhaegar and most likely not even a Targ.
The whole thing would be artifical and unsustainable. That could draw attention to how authentic the first triangle really was, and underscore why Jon Snow is the true heir, a real Targ, and Aegon is fake.
@@maksimnikiforovski2034 the fact that faegon may or may not be a blackfyre doesnt change the fact that jons still a bastard even if he is rhaegar and lyannas child.
there was no possible way for jon to be legitimate and lets be fr i dont even think rhaegar and lyanna cared that much. and if they did care about him being a bastard then im assuming that they were just planning on legitimising him after rhaegar won the war and got rid of his father.
basically theres no way for jon to be a true heir because hes still a bastard at the end of the day. the true heir to the iron throne atm is stannis the mannis.
Doran sending Arianne to try making a marriage alliance with Aegon does fit. It's been a while since I read Feast_, but I remember there being some indication that he'd intended to marry her to Viserys, and when that fell through due to, well, Viserys being Viserys, deciding to send Quentyn to Meereen to try his luck with Daenerys. Now _another Targaryen's shown up, and he's practically next door! What luck!
For the first question who I want on the Iron Throne Stannis Baratheon or Edric Baratheon (being named in a will of a King). House Baratheon Fury For The Win.
The 2nd question is him having a harem of Queens, one for each of the Kingdoms who rule when Aegon isn't there.
Crown = Daenerys
North = Sansa
Dorne = Arianne
Westerlands = Myrcella
Reach = Margaery
Iron Islands = Asha
Stormlands = Mya
I need others to fill in the rest.
Mya is not an acknowledged bastard and has spent all her life in the Vale the Stormlands would never support her
Baechelor Targaryen was right there for the thumbnail
I think that Arianne wants Dorne more than she wants to marry a Targaryean. I think it will be Sansa who marries him a la Petyr's shenanigans. Plus she would be part of the conquering party to take down Cersei.
Mr Quinn could you please make a video about who might be in a hypothetical Aegon VI kingsguard? (the 6 who will join Rolly Duckfield)
It would be really interesting to see how Jon(Aemon) might interact with Aegon if the two managed to exist in the same time frame.
Technically speaking, if we assume Aegon is a targaryen. Then Jon and Aegon are half brothers. Given how the two are pretty similar in age, if Aegon takes kingslanding and maybe word reaches him that the lord commander was resurreced with white hair and whatnot. Aegon, being a dumb teenager, might actually summon Jon to kings landing, since others might suddenly piece together the white haired stark bastard is actually rhaegars offspring. Jon con might want to bring Jon closer to them so the two can become freinds and allies. rather than inviting Jon to challenge his claim
If we consider this idealistic future. Aegon might have Aemon(if thats Jons targ name) marry sansa stark, to secure the north to their cause. While he tries to remain free for Dany or weds another woman. This kind of power duo of half brothers would be really cool to see, and we can see Aemon try and talk Aegon into taking the white walkers seriously.
I know Jon would be focused on the north of the wall, but him taking a more politically active role in the south to speed up the wars end would be really cool.
@@brodyestes2376 I think we will get Jon and Aegon interacting because it would be such a waste, narratively speaking, not to! But Aegon doesn’t have to know Jon’s real parentage for Jon to get sent south. If the Starks re-establish themselves in Winterfell as rulers of the North, I think it’s highly likely someone other than Jon ends up the ruler. He has already refused to usurp his siblings’ claim when offered it by Stannis, and once he knows his true parentage he’ll feel even less of a right to Winterfell. So, if the Starks are now the power in the North and Aegon holds the Iron Throne, it would make sense that the Starks would want to send an emissary south to negotiate with the new king, probably for assistance against the army of the dead. And then, once there, Jon will have all kinds of feelings about having a new big brother after having lost Robb, and then Jon is going to get caught up in the Aegon vs. Dany showdown.
I think Sansa is 100% going to marry Aegon for the reasons you mentioned and more.
For starters, Bran is confirmed to be king by the end of the story which is completely nonsensical unless Aegon marries Sansa in which the only next of kin between the two of them is Bran.
Also politically it could make even more sense than first thought, since theres likely to be at least one claim to winterfell not just as lord but as a king, those being Jon Snow and Rickon Stark. Aegon would likely want to marry a Stark to push for north/south reunification if the north cecedes again.
Lastly in the real life wars of the roses which heavily inspired the outline to ASOIAF, the eldest surviving daughter of house york (Stark) marries the returning Henry Tudor who crosses the narrow sea and their marriage officially puts an end to the fighting and begins the Tudor dynasty
But Henry Tudor was, at least in theory, representing House Lancaster, and that's Lannisters in the story. Wouldn't Targaryens and Aegon be more of a Plantagenet stand ins? To me, Aegon's plot resembles more of one of the pretenders to Henry VII's. He might even be an amalgamation of all of them. And Sansa could still work in that scenario, since one of them convince the Scottish King enough to be given a noble lady to wed. If Aegon pursues an alliance with the King in the North, he might marry Sansa to seal the deal until Dany comes over and offs him. But the main issue it the timeline. Considering where everyone is and the stage of plot development in each area, I cannot see them aligning in time. Before the North is in place to make alliances and trade marriage offers, Aegon's southern story will most likely be concluded. And at this point, Aegon wouldn't get Sansa without Littlefinger sticking his fingers in another pie. I don't know if Petyr would trade his key to the North, Riverlands, and Vale for tentative promises from a young conquer king who has a relative with dragons...
can you link me where GRRM definitively confirms that bran will be king in the book's ending? i've seen it said several times, is it just grrm's original outline, or has he actually said it definitively? i've always hoped that grrm would go completely left of the shitty tv show, so it would suck if we ended up with the same ill-suited half-boy-half-tree king.
I like this idea but Bran would also be Jon's next of kin after Daenerys (assuming faegon is true), so if jon becomes king for a time and has no kids then bran could become king that way
@ragnarrandom7367 it comes from the showrunners confirming which parts of the finale came from George's notes to them. King Bran and burning of Shereen are two of such plot points. I can't remember if this came out in an interview or season 8 commentary, but I am sure there are detailed videos about it :) the destination might be the same but George's route there is bound to be different. And frankly, I hope he will change his mind on some things and also wonder of the overwhelming criticism of the show's ending didn't shake his confidence in his own ending and contributed to the ridiculous delay is Winds coming out.
@@LusiaEyre thank you for that.
i put no faith in what the showrunners said, cuz they sucked and their show sucked, but its good to know where the received wisdom came from. i certainly hope that grrm, if ever does manage to finish the series, will take it in a wholly different direction than the show. for me, the show's ending is just fan fiction, and no more (or less) valid than any other ASoIaF fan fiction.
Maybe Aegon will do what the OG Aegon did. Marry Dany (Visenya) for duty and Arriane (Rhaenys) for desire. Dany will give him dragon fire and Arriane will give him an army. Plus, if we buy the idea that Dany will never birth (human) kids again, then Dany might as well make Aegon's kid (with Arriane) her heir.
I'd prefer him pairing with Margeary Tyrell. I think she could also fix him being somewhat of an asshole. I don't see him knocking off cyvass boards around her.
as a point of contention, a golden shroud could easily be the veil Myrcella wears to hide her disfigurement. Just a thought ;)
We know YG needs a dragon and therefore I think his bride depends *entirely* on Quent. If Quentyn really is somehow alive...then he prob claims a dragon, meaning YG likely marries Arianne. If Quent is dead, YG needs his dragon elsewhere (Victarion?), but there's not bride that gives him one...if he doesn't get a dragon from his bride he'll need an army...Sansa and the Vale.
Something not mentioned but just as likely, is Aegon taking after his name and taking 2 wives. This is wishful thinking on my part, but I think all the pieces line up.
For one, the dragon needs three heads, and he is Aegon reconquering Westeros. If he marries Arianne, then suddenly he has a sexually open first wife who is his cousin. Then he marries another Targaryen who is his aunt.
Sister wives it isn't, but the sentiment is there, and a union with Dorne is thematically the most dense of any other wedding.
Dorne being so relevant is also why I think Aegon is legitimate, but that is for a different rant.
I'd put money on him marrying a handful of them.
He’s actually maegor brightflame, channeling his namesake (and miraculously passing for 20 at age 66)
@@QuinnTheGM Either way, he's a hunk. He's gonna be gettin hitched left and right.
@@QuinnTheGM well there is a precedent for just that in the books!
Y'all are just projecting. Go write fanfictions.
@@happilyevernever4289 I don't write 'em, I just read 'em. It's called foreshadowing. 😉
Even though it’s almost certainly not going to happen, I would love to see my glorious King Aegon VI Blackfyre (the true Azor Ahai) survive the series to reign!!!
It’s gonna be Arianne, she’s so set up, it has to happen. Aegon could fool around with Elia Sand and I do like that parallel with Rhaegar. I hope Arianne survives and marries Willas, I want some happy endings. Also super excited for the Laughing Storm!!! 😂⛈️, Lyonel is gonna be a fan favourite, I guarantee it!
The ASOIAF fanbase takes it as an article of faith that all of Cersei's children will predecease her, the same as happened in the show, but I don't totally get why everyone is so sure of that. I remain unconvinced. Maggy said "gold will be their crowns and gold will be their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
So all of Cersei's children will wear crowns, ok that's totally plausible.
Gold will be their shrouds seems to indicate that when they die, they will have very stately, rich funerals. And then Maggy goes straight into when your tears have drowned you. Cersei's tears drowning her seems to be where people pick up the implication that all of her children will die before her, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. I could totally see it being the case that Cersei's tears drowning her will be due to losing Joffrey, losing her power, losing Tywin who she eternally wanted to think highly of her, losing how everyone saw her as being almost divine when she had to do her walk of atonement, Jaime rebuking her, and then possibly also Tommen and/or Myrcella rebuking her. Multiple characters think that neither Tommen nor Myrcella have the same awfulness as Joffrey and Cersei (there have been several characters who say that Tommen is a good boy, in contrast to Joffrey who was already disemboweling cats and abusing his siblings when he was Tommen's age, and Tyrion claims that Myrcella inherited all of her mother's beauty and none of her personality (thank the gods.)) So maybe one or both of Cersei's remaining children will turn against her when they find out how terrible of a person she is.... ooooo and maybe Cersie will be like "they are dead to me waaaaahhhh!" That would be a very GRRM-esque twist for one or both of them to still be alive but dead to the person who the prophecy was about.
Also, tangent: going off of Quinn's theory about JonCon possibly going mad from a combination of Greyscale and PTSD at some point: as far as JonCon knows, Myrcella and Tommen are Robert's children, and JonCon has mentioned that his other burning desire other than installing Aegon on the Iron Throne is to see the Usurper's line ended. Given that Myrcella and Tommen are both innocent children, there's no way Aegon would allow them to be executed, but maybe if JonCon goes mad, he will murder one or both in an effort to end Robert's line, in an echo of Rickard Karstark, and that will (by itself or in combination with other actions) cause Aegon to disown his adopted father
Yllirio must have told him about the incest rumours and they’ll probably use it to validate Aegon’s claim more
King Stannis Baratheon is the one true King. No one else comes close
While Arianne is the heir to Dorne she's not the only remaining member of the Martell family who can inherit via Dornish customs. All of the Sand Snakes are in the line of succession and while I don't know if Obara, Nymeria, or Tyene are all going to survive Winds and Dream, Sarila and even more likely Elia seem poised to be among those carrying the world narrative beyond the core story (unless the Others just end up winning or something).
Oh and Quinn if you're reading this by any chance have you heard about/looked into the ASOIAF minatutes game by CMON?
Not sure of your love for and interest in the series extends into the realm of war gaming, but if you're ever looking for future video ideas while we all continue to wait for Winds, I know I'd enjoy hearing your reaction/thoughts to it.
Either Nym or Tyene aren't gonna survive winds. They are going to be in the Vipers Pit very soon, with Nym supposed to sit on the Council to represent Doran. Cersei is never gonna allow her sitting on the council, first and foremost, Nym and Arianne are supposed to be the 2 most beautfiul young ladies in Dorne at the moment, but on top of that Nym is a bastard. And yes, while Cersei allowed Aurane Waters for a brief time, he did eventually betray her.
At this point I support Drogon burning that throne to molten slag.
Doesn't change the need for a monarch regardless of the throne or not. It's just a symbol at the end of the day.
Nobody in history has ever needed a warlord. Martin is not going to finish his books with a triumph for feudalism.
@@mil_enrama that would be terrible. Imposing modern political sensibilities into a medieval fantastical setting undermines the entire story.
@@J..P.. Honey, it quite literally the point of the story, that feudalism and monarchy are bad, hell i bet the books are (if released) gonna end in a people's revolution and the seven kingdom because a united republic (or at least something close to it)
@@NikolaiOrelovGNR didnt get that at all from the books...to the contrary the realities of the setting are portrait without any random modernist cultural heroes showing everyone how bad the political arrangement is
for me it makes sense that if the 2 or 3 supposed Targs wont be able to actually win, then balkanisation happens cause the idea of that realm hinges on blood and personal kingship with ony the Watch and now the Faith being independent of that but since both are in the mids of major turmoils, I don't believe them to have the universalist influence that would be needed to keep the kingdoms together
An Aegon-Sansa match could be combined with Sansa going North. They could make an alliance on the condition that Sansa is able to win the North to Aegon's cause, which would mean taking back Winterfell and negotiating with the Northern lords on Aegon's behalf, complicating the situation there even further. I don't see them actually ending up marrying, but even the possibility could mean interesting things for her character; having to choose between becoming Aegon's queen vs. supporting an independent North, for example. She'd be a great candidate for Aegon, as she has connections to the Vale, the North, and even the Riverlands through Catelyn and Robb.
Sansa is the most parallel to Aegon:
> Both snucked out of King's Landing(allegedly)
> Both dyed their hair to conceal their "true" identity
> Both have foster fathers with birds on their sigils
> Said foster father is in-love to one of their parents
Plus Sansa is Ice and Aegon is Fire. Their true hair color is opposite of their supposed element, fire red(auburn) for icy Sansa and white as snow for fiery Aegon. Like Yin and Yang. A Song of Ice and Fire is the story of the circumstances of how they eventually met.
YouLaine (Young Griff + Alaine) is the way to go and George knows it.
It better be Good Queen Margaery 😍
I would also like to stand for election
Unreal thumbnail
Waiting for bronn to ascend the rosby throne
Regarding Sansa - imho it all depends what LF knows about Varys plans. I think there are a handful of times where the two definitely work together on major moves that help both their causes (personally, i think purple wedding is such a case) but they clearly don't know the full picture of each other's plans but are paying attention to the others moves - I could see LF consolidating all this power for Sansa as a marriage proposal move for faegon
I really believe that it will be Sansa. They have a lot of parallels, and a marriage would really move the story forward. Sansa can be the YMBQ, which is very ironic. She is the only Stark that doesn’t have a Winterfell POV, it feels as though her story is meant to be about the south.
With how she is developing into a political player, it won’t mean anything if she goes North, since the North is literally gonna be ground zero of an apocalypse.
Yeah I’d say Sansa’s parallels of Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Harding, and Targaryen only make sense if we say Joffery counts as a presumed Baratheon, even if he wasn’t actually. Marrying a presumed Targaryen in Young Griff keeps that precedent going, rather than doing the opposite by marrying the presumed Stark Jon. But counterpoint that Dunk and Egg book was written quite early on and plans may have changed so :/
I also think Aegon and Sansa will end up together. And I sincerely hope so.
The issue with the Ashford victors being evidence of Sansa's betrothed is that she was kinda sorta briefly betrothed to Sweetrobin: "How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?" (Sansa VI ASoS). And if you say that doesn't count because there was no formal betrothal and it only lasted 2 Sansa chapters, then Sansa's betrothal to Garlan Tyrell should also be discounted on the same grounds. Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardyng and Targaryen... this is just a list of great houses, plus Hardyng. I think if anything, it foreshadows Harry the Heir's death via tourney, similar to Humfrey Hardyng at Ashford?
Hello there
General kenobi!
Arianne wanted Dorne and was afraid Quentyn will steal it from her but now she knows that she could get something better: the 7 kingdoms. She believes King Quentyn sound weird so she probably is going to be like "Dorne is yours, brother. I'm going to be queen."
Wouldn’t it be crazy if he died at storms end 💀
I actually think the Targaryen for Sansa might be Jon if he is Rhaegar's son by Lyanna. Now, I won't say this would be a love match, but done to stabilize their claim in the North since she is Eddard's seemingly only living heir and he would be one of the last living males of House Stark, and being married to Jon would prevent anymore creeps from trying to lay claim to her and her lands.
i say Stannis the Mannis will life through the hole book series and will be the king
I want to read Arianne and Aegon’s married dynamic so bad. I’m so envisioning something a little like Catherine and Peter in the Great.
Seeing the Love Island pic, QUINN THE GM, MAKE A LOVE ISLAND VIDEO AND MY MONEY IS YOURS
bonetown; the bone zone
There actually IS a place in the ASOIAF world called Bonetown (if it exists; it is allegedly to the east of Yi Ti, so very, very few people from Westeros or the Free Cities ever go there, and even fewer ever come back.)
No references to the Bone Zone........ YET!
"Madness has had it's day!"
please elaborate on the Sansa + Jon idea at some point, why would they do it?
Not only would it legitimise Jon as King in the North in a similar way to a Aegon/Dany union does in the South, but in GRRM’s original plan had a Jon\Arya/Tyrion love triangle. Jon marrying Sansa, who was once married to Tyrion might be the ‘updated’ version of this plan.
@@wandaXmaximoff Personally, I think they'll fall in love before they marry (to subvert Sansa's lament that everyone only wants her for her claim), i.e. at the point that they marry, Jon won't be pressing his claim to the kingship any longer (partially due to the parentage reveal but also because he's already proven that he is unwilling to step in front of Sansa or any of his other siblings in the line of succession). I'm guessing that they'll have Rickon and/or Bran back at that point and will be united in supporting their younger brother's claim. Marrying Sansa would also be personally fulfilling for Jon because it allows him to become a true Stark as he's always dreamed of.
On Sansa's end, not only would she be marrying for love, but she'd also be marrying someone she won't have to worry will use her against her family to take Winterfell and the North for himself, plus it protects her from yet again becoming her family's pawn for political marriage (aka, what Ned did to her the moment we first learned of her existence in the series). So, I envision it being a secret wedding before the heart tree (Jacaerys/Sara Snow style, and also as foreshadowed by Jon's dreams of making love with Ygritte in the godswood) rather than a publicized, political one.
Darkstar will get married to Aegon.
Dorkstar x Young Stud. I see Dorkstar being bratty. Needs correction.
Honestly, I'm pretty confident that Cersei will blow up the sept of Baelor. It just wont be anywhere nearly as effective in killing her enemies. I'd even put money on her failing to blow up anyone important, just burning the people.
loving that we are the same age and both love asoiaf and terrible reality tv 🤣🤣
Yeah Arianne is probably the most likely to marry Aegon. As for who will be king in the end I say a legitimised Edric Storm will swoop in and take the throne as the compromise candidate after every other claimant has died or resigned.
I think Arianne + Aegon does make the most sense, though it will grieve me to see Dorne suffer even more. Myrcella would be a very interesting choice, and becoming Aegon's bride and then getting wiped by Dany could be how she goes out. Arianne already tried to make her queen once. Why not again? I do think you're right, though, that she is pretty far down the list of likely candidates. I also agree that Jon makes more sense as Sansa's Targaryen suitor than Aegon does, largely because of geography, but also because, like, for a political marriage to Sansa to be beneficial to Aegon, he'd have to retake the North and Winterfell first. He doesn't have that kind of leeway right now. He needs a marriage that can get him an army and the backing of a powerful house/region immediately.
Anyway, I'm ultimately rooting for the Iron Throne to be abolished after the destruction of KL, Dorne and the North to become independent kingdoms, and Bran-as Robb's heir and thus heir to the kingdom of the Trident-to rule over the remaining kingdoms from Harrenhal in the Riverlands. So...I don't really care too much who's temporarily on the Iron Throne in TWOW. XD
I support Faegon just because I think it'll be great if he's a blackfyre and Dany destroys him and Arriane in an effort to destroy the grey scale and an opposing claim. Cersei will turn this to propaganda against Dany with the remaining lords of westeros
I don't get why everyone thinks Dany is some sort of misunderstood savior. She isn't. She's a conqueror. Conquest is bloody and violent and George is well aware of this, which is why Dany will be a villainous figure.
The whole Dany the savior motif flies in the face of everything George stands for. He will not suddenly portray a brutal conquest as some sort of heroic but misunderstood act. It will be fire and blood. Death and destruction.
@@J..P..so any conqueror is a villan?? So was Aegon the conqueror a villian as well??? Or any other person who conquered anything a villan??
From the perspective of the people being conquered? Absolutely. And let's keep in mind here that we are talking about literature and I am using the term from a literary perspective.
And yes, Aegon the conqueror would have been a villainous figure who became idolized and made a hero by posterity. We have historical people whom we idolize and provide the epithets of "the great", "the conqueror" etc. and by doing so, we overlook the atrocities they committed. I believe this is George's underlying theme, I don't necessarily agree with it in entirety, but it is the position of the author. "When the high lords play their game of thrones, people suffer".
So all I'm saying here, is that Dany's conquest will not be this "liberating heroine" narrative as presented in the show. George will want to make it clear that to be a conqueror is to leave a trail of death and destruction in your wake. The heel turn and sack of KL flopped in the show, largely because they white washed her conquest to begin with and it seemed out of character. When she does it in the books, it will have precedent. She will not be evil for evil sake, as this is too simplistic a narrative, but she will absolutely be a force for destruction and chaos and will be hated and feared for it. She has the potential to be the perfect villain, precisely because she is a complex character who is loved by a large section of the fandom.
I hope Aegon and Dany get along and fight the Greyjoys. Dany bled at the end of A Dance with Dragons but it is not known if she can give birth to healthy children, and she and him are one of the last remaining dragons. Although Aegon is Blackfire, he still feels descended from the dragon lords of Valyria.
@@J..P.. she is not a villainous figure. George said the opposite of what you said. Stop lying.
Victarion will marry Aegon
Big if true
😂😂😂 good for him. I can imagine him grooming his groom.
It'll probably be Arianne but honestly I think it would be so much cinema if he ended up with Shireen, like the Mannis dies at some point but his most loyal men still hold Dragonstone and try to carry on his will of putting his daughter in the Throne, and so Aegon decides to marry her to gain help from Stannis' men... Unlikely to happen and kinda fanficy but I think that would be kino.
Arianne seducing Aegon and forcing him into a marriage (paralleling Robb and Jeyne Westerling) which causes a second Dance of the dragons between Aegon and Dany and ruins JonCon's plans makes for the best story.
The most outside bet: Asha
15:30 Lacking so much FECK. Containing not one single iota of FECK.
Where can I find that map chart of the winds of winter?
I think it'll be Arianne. HASHTAG TEAM ARIANNE! It's symbolic, it's politically savvy... We stan. Griff is in his isekai anime era. I hope you keep Love Island Westeros a thing.
Whose claim am I supporting ? In theory no one's, in practice Stannis just for the meme of it all and because of Davos. I know that he'll probably never win nor live for long but the memes... They won me over.
I want to see sansa and aegon become a thing entirely so jon can find out and go like “what the fuck sansa his grandfather literally killed our grandfather”. Presumably followed by Daenerys bursting in and declaring aegon isnt her nephew he’s a blackfyre, then followed by bran appearing and telling them that not only is jon a targ but also the white walkers are here.
what if griff capture and mary myrcella, making her queen ( gold shall be their crowns) cause she can’t die before becoming queen. Then arianne or better yet elia kills her to free him to mary arianne
Aegon and Elia Sand, the girl like Lyanna in Arianne's sample chapters, which will drive Connington crazy. And like Robb Stark, a bad marriage choice will doom Aegon's kingdom, because while it will force Dorne to fight for Doran to defend his family, but the bad choice by Aegon will cause Daenerys to be against him. I don't think Arianne will be as reckless as we might think; she is a zoomer (23) and has gone character growth.
And we all know that Cersei is going to become JonCon's cousin, once removed-in-law in truly demented fashion.
Where can I find a HD version of that political map at the start of the video
Disappointed we didn't get any love for the obvious choice: Glimbus Ausstark
I want a Dance of the Dragons and the show has Dorne side with the Targs, so I'm guessing Aegon+Dorne v Dany+Reach.