Love the fact you can have in person conversations while the other parent takes care of baby and behind the scenes work. You both always do well allowing survivors to speak their truth and shine a light.
I've been saying for years, the lack of sex ed is only good for a predator. it is crazy that so many children don't get basic sex ed in America. In my country, the Netherlands, it is mandatory to teach it to kids and it should include knowing your own body, how to say no, what sexual abuse is and what sex is. It prevents csa and it always makes me super suspisious when someone thinks a child shouldn't know this
And it's purposeful, they know that children who don't understand consent or how their own bodies work, are children who don't have the vocabulary to get help. Not that it should ever be on the child, but it is what it comes down to
This was rejected by the Church. This was a one of the issues that was part of the ‘The Separation between Church and State’. The ‘Church’ feared that their Children would somehow become more promiscuous if they were taught ANY type of Health or Sex Education was seen Sinful and not of their “Beliefs”. Unfortunately this allowed the Predators of not only Children but many young adults. A prime example is how my Mom thought about sex education. She was born in ‘33 and when I was in school in the mid 70’s was that she didnt feel the need to teach me not only about sex, predators, but about me starting my monthly cycles. When I got older I asked her why she never told or taught me things things. Her response was “Thats what the School is supposed to do” 🫨 And the only thing I was taught about the opposite sex was .. I was NOT to let a boy touch me in ANY way and to NOT talk or get into strange cars. I was very fortunate to not have any bad things happen, but it ABSOLUTELY stunted my dating and interaction with the opposite sex. I made DAMN sure that I tell my kids EVERYTHING and explain why I was telling and warning them of Bad people, Predators both Men AND Women.
Why, Why, a thousand times WHY would hundreds of thousand of adults take parenting and marriage advice from a Man who was never married or had kids???? I am baffled by this. Love Lindsey and relate to living in fear of a Father coming home and horrible whippings for accumulated transgressions throughout the day. I learn and hear something different every time Lindsey speaks.
This. I am a homeschool mom and I would never touch this propaganda written by someone with zero experience with actual pedagogy with a ten food pole. I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences with your dad. That's awful.
Think of it this way- the people who listened to him probably didn’t know that to start out. They probably just knew what they’d heard from other people, and he was probably described as a smart man whose advice they could trust. They probably then bought some books, took a course, and started going “wow, he’s so smart, just like my friends said!” And by the time they might’ve heard that he was never married and had no children, they likely decided that it didn’t matter because they liked what he had to say and that it didn’t matter to them whether or not he had any experience with marriage or kids after all.
@emro164 my gosh you are so right you have convicted me because I just last year came out of what's 60 years plus of blind Christianity where I never questioned anything about the Bible or crazy things I have been taught I guess that answered my own question with a little bit of help from you!
I knew a couple of families who were involved with this nonsense and I just sensed that, despite appearances, they were not happy people. My most vivid and telling memory was of their four-year-old son coming up to me and proclaiming “God doesn’t like it when women wear pants.” Even though I was a little shocked, I managed to reply “Yeah, well I think God cares more about what’s in my heart than whether I’m wearing pants or not.” Poor little kid.
Four years old, and they already have ingrained in their tiny, little male child to be an abusive tiny tyrant towards women - grown adult women. And I bet if you confronted his parents about what he said to you, they would defend his behavior. It's appalling how they indoctrinate these children from birth. 😢
My grandfather taught me when I was little that I wasn’t responsible for anyone’s emotions but my own. He was pretty clear about what the metaphor of if thine eye offend thee; if you can’t handle how something looks, don’t look or don’t be there.
@@dawnpalmby5100I don’t know- I used to get catcalled constantly before I bought my first car, and I still get harassed when I walk somewhere, and I absolutely LOVE that Bible verse. It might actually be my favorite.
In the early 70s I attended a Bill Gothard seminar and thought it was ridiculous. The Christian rock band my boyfriend was in took it very seriously. During a break I found them earnestly discussing cutting their hair and not "summoning demons" with their drumbeat. I told them they would not attract any young people if they did that. My boyfriend was convinced he had to cut his hair to not be in rebellion against God. I told him I'd break up with him if he did that. Not because I liked his long hair (I did) but because he was so weak that some conservative old dude could tell him how to honor God. He did it and we broke up.
I was a part of and married while in the authoritarian, life and mind-controlling, shepherding, charismatic, IBLP-following, Christian Growth Ministries cult in the 1970's and 1980's. They pulled me out of college and ruined my life. Their teaching are damnable. I just had my 69th birthday. I have been in a mostly unhappy marriage for almost 47 years. I have deconstructed from fundamentalist, charismatic and evangelical Christianity in the last two years. I continue to learn, grow, and gain personal power. Millions of lives around the world have been and are being damaged and destroyed in these systems. May these cult leaders rest in piss. I can't wait for part 2! I AM sorry for what I believed, said, and practiced while in these cults. Thank you Shelise for this channel. I subscribe to and follow your videos "religiously." Thank you Lindsey for the strength and courage you have exhibited by telling your story. These religious cult leaders and their teaching must be stopped before more lives are damaged and destroyed. They are, as we can see, trying to control our freedoms and push their agenda by controlling the government. I was told, "Democracy is ungodly!" They want a theocracy in which THEY can control OUR lives. This election we must vote for freedom and democracy. Shelise, keep on exposing THEIR evil deeds and telling the truth!
Yes, and they are frighteningly close to succeeding. Donald Trump will let them do whatever they want. If they win, and if there are elections, only white, “Christian” men will be allowed to vote. I hope rational citizens understand the serious threat they pose.
I hope we will have a world where it will be illegal to practice ANY religion for children. They can learn about all religions at school and analyze the illogical, but no communions, confirmations, batisms or any recitings of any "scriptures" until you finish high school.
I am LOVING the in person interviews! I know they're not always possible but she's right, the energy is so much better. Also loving Jonathan's solo interviews. ❤
Gentle parenting teaches trust, hitting children teaches "I'm bigger than you and I can hurt you, and there's nothing you can do about it " which sets kids up to be abused or to abuse others. Do the research.
I was spanked as a fairly young kid and I used to think, "At least my parents did it right." They would tell us why we were being punished, how many swats we'd receive, would never use their hands, would show us love afterwards, and they stopped altogether after a time. It wasn't until today that I see how that still instilled fear into my siblings and I, and I think that's what a lot of parents operate on: I'll make my kids scared to do that again. That was back in the mid 80s, so there wasn't much info floating around on the long-term impacts. Overall my parents were pretty good, but I bet they could have come up with other methods of discipline had they thought about it.
Flds and iblp is my favorite thing yall cover. Iblp is the most healing for me since I grew up in it. I will listen to however many hours you give. Thank you shelise ❤
I so appreciate the introduction pieces of this interview. I started down paths like this when i began homeschooling (I am a trained teacher). I revered the Duggars. Plz be kind and know that I leaped further and further away as I watched friends require dresses and cruel disciplinary actions toward their children. My personality tends toward loving rules and consistency, so I was primed to head that direction. Ended up working very hard to attempt to let my kids be themselves and not have as many rules... and send them to school if they wanted. (One child chose a hybrid option in order to work ahead.) I see in my own upbringing how crazy some of the restrictions were. Its hard. We are trying to do our best to help our kids become great, happy people who contribute to society. Im glad i caught myself before i took things too far.
I am so glad that someone took the time to scan these "Wisdom" booklets. As a graduate student, studying religious extremism, this channel is an amazing educational resource. So much of my coursework focuses on the analytical side of religious extremist groups, as opposed to what it is like as an individual in these organizations.
I think Lindsey managed to explain nicely the IBLP cult. Hands down to her and all of the brave guests for comming out and educating us, and hands down to you, Shelise, for creating this space of compassion knowing that you too get to relive some of your own trauma. Love you, CtC Team!
I was born into Jehovah’s Witnesses and I had a similar triggering experience with an elder in my congregation except it ended in full on r!pe. It’s not surprising how similar all these cult stories are. 😢
I was raised pretty fundamentalist, but I’m so glad my dad had the discernment to stay away from Bill Gothard and anything concerning him. I remember as a kid he said he had a bad feeling about that man and the Duggers. My siblings and I were homeschooled, but my dad was a computer science engineer he was very educated, all of my siblings were very intelligent and passed their SATs and ACT with flying colors and eventually went on to college. It breaks my heart to see stuff like this especially since I have a brother now that is the cult that is pretty closely connected with the Duggers and Bill Gothard so I love hearing peoples testimonies about people who got out.
Wow! I am so so happy you had a smart father who had the ability to think for himself and recognize Bill's teachings were not going to support his children for the future. I wish so deeply I could have had the educational building blocks in my early years. It would have made emerging from the religious beliefs a bit easier. Happy to be out though and am so glad you've been spared this upbringing! You're a great example of smart, responsible homeschooling!
@@thecultchronicles I consider myself so very lucky. Every time I run into a teen or young adult that’s very clearly involved in the Goatherd cult it takes every ounce to not yell at them to run as far as they can from that life
This brings back stinging memories of throwing all of my records into the trash as I felt pressured by pastor influenced by Bill Gotthard. The brainwashing was gradual and looking back, I’m horrified that I so readily complied. The lyrics weren’t the issue, it was the beat, especially led by drums. Praise God that I found the strength to leave the extreme legalism.
I'm so sorry. I know the feeling all too well! I had several CD's taken from me at HQ and they were soundtracks like Emma and Sense and Sensibility!! So ridiculous how terrified they all were of a falsehood that a beat was going to drum up satan. I'm glad you're free of the legalism! It is oppressive and inaccurate raising terrified and judgmental children.
Just ONE of the things that is so appalling is that L. was legally an adult, and yet Gothard and her dad infantilized her and totally controlled her life. By infantilizing, I mean L. wasn’t educated properly or taught the life skills she needed to live as an independent adult. This Gothard thing is an onion with LOTS of layers to peel-fascinating and horrifying to learn about.
I would definitely say my wings were clipped at an early age. My potential was stifled and then controlled by domination over everything I did. Thank you for listening and for your compassion and understanding on this situation. ❤
Haha I absolutely love her 18 yo self saying over and over thinking "that's a crazy idea.". Because her 18 yo self was already trying to stifle that question in the back of her mind, "why am I doing all this?" and it kept bubbling up in her testimony.
I have been in church regularly since I was 7 or 8 and made the decision as an adult to continue attending on my own. I am so thankful the churches I have attended have always encouraged questioning so that we could learn and know why we believe what we believe and what we believe. I was never expected or encouraged to just believe whatever I was being told by my church leadership or parents. And we still have spirited conversations amongst the different generations.
I developed a way with my son that was essentially a timeout that was focused on letting him consider the situation and be able to have a conversation about it. I did not require any particular outcome, just that he could consider both sides and have a discussion. At the level he was. I called it restriction. He was restricted from his activities, until we could resolve the "problem" action. Otherwise, I put him in a safe environment to explore unrestricted. I only put in restriction when his exploration became harmful to himself or other living beings. It put the ability to lift the restriction in his own hands. He was allowed to come off restriction as soon as he was willing to have a little conversation about it. I always saw modeling physical hitting as a resolution technique as oxymoronic.
But that takes time, education on child development (formal or self taught), having empathy, introspection, and wanting what’s best for the other person…they want blind obedience, in the short term, lack of empathy and introspection, and have a dependency on a false belief of how children are to be raised according to their religion that’s thousands of years old. Too much work! An unruly child reflects poorly on them and that’s all they are thinking about. How it looks not what’s best for the child.
Hearing her on the tape sounds exactly like the Duggars. Sadly, even the ones who have publicly repudiated IBLP like Jinger still sound like this. I know Jinger thinks she has left but she didn’t escape because she just traded for another cult. Everything is still sweet or on her heart like the tape. It shows how deep those fundamental teachings warp you, how Christian Fundamentalism has warped Christianity itself. I’m glad you escaped and understand how you were impacted by the abuse.
The tape still gives me goosebumps because it reminds me and proves to me just how far I have come. The fight, the insecurity, feeling insufficient, was a decades long struggle. Then I hear this and I realize just how insanely conditioned I was. Its not easy to break the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual habits. For the Duggar girls, it may take them 20 years before they are able to shed some of these conditioned behaviors. Therapy is what helped me to see so clearly how I was damaged and the work I needed to do to change up my physical, mental and emotional habits. xo
It still amazes me how much of these terrifying and ridiculous cult teachings are in the small baptist church in sleepy little maine that i attended for 3 years. I am so grateful I escaped it, and got the hell out of there! Thank you for sharing your story!
Ewww..please tell me that this preditor is locked up. Thanks for your bravery for speaking out Lindsey. We need more people like to you speak. God Bless!
Unfortunately he is not locked up. It's one of the reasons I participated in the Shiny Happy People Documentary. He needed to be exposed on an international platform! There is another doc still trying to raise money to launch without having any platform determining how they share their abuse stories about Bill. It's called "Until the Truth". These women were also Gothard Girls and are some of the women who brought the lawsuit against him for sexual abuse.
That means so much. It's the reason I wanted to do the documentary and why a year later I am STILL out here sharing more of my story! Thank you for hearing me and for the support!
this is one of my favorite interviews on CTC. My homeschooled by xian fundamentalist upbringing was similar in many ways to this. Even abeka was mentioned & I remember that curriculum! I got my GED as a young adult & plan to continue my education now that my 5 kids are a little older now. Thankyou for being here & being you ... both of you... all of ya'll over there. 😂🎉 signed, exhomeschooled fundie in Texas
I think one of the biggest problems with "gentle parenting" is that people only know how to discipline through spanking so sometimes they go too far in the other direction by not disciplining at all through other means. I think discipline is 100% important and necessary but NOT by hitting your child!
The problem is really that people don’t know what gentle parenting actually is. What you’re describing is passive parenting, and it is not effective. Gentle parenting is about giving choices, giving kids a chance to make the right choice, and if they don’t you make it for them. It’s about explaining why things are important instead of using “because I said so” and things of that nature.
@@raigenhuss7030I agree with you 100%. I have to say when you have a 3 year old asking why over & over when you've explained why over & over "because I said so“ usually works.
I took a bunch of child development and ECE classes at community college when my kiddo was a baby and toddler. The idea was presented that discipline is supposed to mean guidance. It should be instructive, not punitive bc that doesn’t help anybody learn. Natural consequences can be useful, when developmentally appropriate - overall, It is a tremendous amount of hard work, and all I knew when I started, is I didn’t want to yell like my parents had done. Super worth it to learn, though. My kid is 13 now and I’m fiercely proud of her ethics and sense of self 💜⚡️
@@RobertaReal7980lol I get that. I work with kids, usually when the question is asked over and over, I turn it around and say “what did I already tell you?” And that usually nips it
I am loving all of your videos! I am a homeschooling Christian mamma. And I know the possible positives and negatives to that kind of environment. I am so interested in hearing about other peoples lives! Learning this stuff is so interesting to me! I can’t wait to teach my kids about these topics when they are old enough to comprehend them!
This is how I was raised, my home wasn’t very loving, but I at least got an excellent education from my mother, I graduated high school with flying colours. I was on a strict curriculum, they ARE out there. There is no excuse.
I totally relate to the long Bible reading sessions! My ex husband (former pastor) would read and expound to the family in the evening for sometimes 45- an hour. We had 10 kids and always little ones. Once I left, my kids couldn’t tolerate Bible reading. It was traumatizing. I took them to church and only now, 6 years later, can my kids still at home participate in a reasonable time of biblical reading or discussion. Their dad never had any concern for the comfort of little ones or an exhausted wife. To him, it was the Bible so we should be engaged for however long he wanted. And that doesn’t even include the 20 minute prayer! We are still healing but have come a long way.
Sounds like he likes the sound of his own voice lol, or stuck in that cycle of shame and condemnation if he doesn't do what he believes God expects of him sadly. He'll walk around with with those shackles for his entire life unless he has a miracle.
A Christian community in New Zealand was taught by Bill Gothard that it is sinful to have a mortgage (debt), and one should rent and save until one could buy cash. The friend who was telling me about it, decided with her husband, to keep paying off their mortgage. They watched as others sold their houses and started renting in poorer areas so they could save up, and where they had unsafe neighbours and their washing was stolen off their lines ... No young family in New Zealand can save up enough to buy a house for cash, while paying rent. It's impossible!!
What a phenomenal guest. That spunk and rebellion saved her life and spirit inside and outside of the cult. So proud of you and everything you've accomplished and proud to see your fighting spirit is still shining bright ❤❤
My upbringing was secular but this story of physical abuse by parents really resonates with me. My mother was very angry all the time and I was in trouble constantly, despite being a straight A student and a really good kid, and I was physically punished all the time. All I learned from those encounters was that I could not trust my parents and I felt unsafe in my own home. I carry trauma from this into my 40s and now am in therapy to correct my self-hatred and lack of self-compassion stemming from my experience. I can only imagine that adding a religious element to this makes everything 100 times worse. Wishing you all the best
I would be trying to sue my parents for neglect or abuse. they literally mistreat their children by not educating them on basic anything. WOW how sad. You are all so very brave to leave the cults.
I wonder how her dad handled having women above him in rank while he was in the military. He couldn't assert control in those situations, but could at home tenfold.
Bare minimum parenting doesn’t allow a child to thrive. Been trying to get my mom to understand this but she really thinks that because I had clothes to wear and food to eat and was taken to school on time that means they went “above and beyond for me” meanwhile I was being hit for every little thing and if I made a mistake it was “what the f** is wrong with you ??!” And constantly being told “trust is earned not given” as an excuse to never allow me to make friends or leave the house or even have privacy in my own room by shutting the door so I could read / draw in quiet.
I could listen to her all day. She is so well-spoken and able to express herself in a way that is genuine but also gentle enough not to traumatize the audience. She’s brilliant.
omg, you are so so kind. I always hope my story doesn't necessarily retraumatize but help others see their stories in mine. We all need to hear each others stories to know we are not alone. Thank you so much for listening to my story. xo
Oh my! There are so many events Lindsey spoke of that I resonate with from the high control religion I growing up in. You summed up the parental corporal punishment so well. There were times I had no idea why I was getting the strap. I learnt nothing from it except the people who said they loved me where inflicting their frustration on me. Lack of quality education is a form of control. If a parent truly wants to help their child make good choices then teach them what and why. Show them what a good decision is…like no hitting others.
Speaking as a public school teacher for over 20 years, research shows most children learn through visual (seeing), tactile (touching) and kinesthetic (doing and moving), rather than auditory (hearing and listening) and verbal (using words both in speech and writing). Even though I teach using every way, I teach mostly through visual, tactile and kinesthetic. I'm sorry homeschooling taught you nothing. I know not all people do a bad job, but I see some return to public school with nothing learned during that time.
Just hearing his name triggers me and I never met him in person.Just so angry that he fed my ex husband’s NPD and escalated my exes NPD into overdrive. However it did help me to get out sooner with my children. Can’t bring myself to say thank you to IBLP for that. This cult is pure poison ☠️
@@PB-dq9gi thanks so much❣️It’s been almost 19 years ago now and me and my grown children are still struggling with the repercussions! Doing so much better now, though❣️👍🏼❤️🥰
Mother here of a soon to be first year college son who is 19. And a 14 year old going into high school. My husband and I have always done gentle parenting. I was and still am a stay at home momma. We are also very open and honest with our kids. We have all the conversations with our boys that need to had. We let them ask us anything they want. And we explain it the best that we can. I really have to brag how amazing my boys are. They are kind, respectful, smart, funny and amazing and so much more. We are a very close family. They are so smart both excel in school. My soon to be college man got a full ride scholarship with a very well o ow college in TN to study neuroscience to become a brain surgeon and the other wants to work for NASA. We have never once spanked or put our hands on our kids. But they also o ow right from wrong. We have been complimented for years on how respectful they are. And I love o have been with them both since the day they were born. We don’t have family close. And my husband and I have done it on our own.
Speaking of words of encouragement, I hope you are doing well in your journey as a new mama, Shelise. You are at a parenting stage (after the initial newborn glow stage where everybody wants to help and check on you) where I had some struggles emotionally. Becoming a parent is a whole new world and it can be amazing but it is totally ok to feel all of the feelings. I just wanted to virtually check in on you and remind you that you are not alone and to remind you that you've got this! P.S. Your baby is gorgeous, just like her parents.
My mother was quite into church when we were growing up. Especially when my sister and I were in high school. The book “To Raise Up a Child” came into our orbit but, our church was fairly progressive and believed Jesus was too. My mother never could buy into the part where she had to shame her own daughters for being who we are. Thankfully, she rejected that sort of teaching and she smelled a rat from the beginning. She wasn’t a perfect parent, she made a lot of mistakes but, going along with teaching her daughters they were inherently shameful wasn’t one of those mistakes.
Supreme Christian Leader made me laugh. The MO of Bill described here is the exact same as what I have heard other victims/survivors say. He definitely had a pattern. I might have to go and check out the Wisdom Booklets. On the podcast Leaving The Village (hosted by former ATI girls), they go through a couple and talk about their educational experiences. It was a few years ago now, but I was shocked when I listened. I knew the Wisdom Booklets were lacking, but it was just so much worse than anything I imagined. Thank you for saying trauma changes your brain chemistry, Shelise. It absolutely does, we have the data to prove it, and not enough people will denounce hitting children unequivocally. Hearing your mom say she knew but wasn't ready to handle it--I am so sorry! I wish I could say I can't imagine, but my mother is very similar. It confirms my fear that so many boomers know and understand, they just choose not to engage because their emotionally lazy and don't want to have to do anything about it.
Fear does NOT = respect. As someone who was hit as a child, out of discipline (& parental anger), I do NOT spank my child & believe there are healthier alternatives to physical punishment.
Yes, this. We didn’t learn to take responsibility for ourselves and our choices through being hit or spanked. We learned to hide. We were in fear. We never told our parents if we made a mistake or were confused about something. Spanking doesn’t teach anything but, fear. It’s abuse. I learned to feel responsible for my own choices more from my grandmother who held us accountable through talking and listening. Hitting achieves compliance until the child is out of your sight and that’s it.
What a gross and disgusting man - and that is the nicest thing I can say about him. So glad the truth is coming out and glad you are safe and thriving! ❤
I thought I was the only person who cried because of math problems I didn't understand! But I was in public school and had math teachers who were like, "well, I explained it. Either you get it or you don't."
I'm only 24 minutes in, but do you know if you're dyslexic or dyscalculic? As a severely dyslexic and dyscalculic person who went to dyslexia schools, you sound like you'd fit right in-just putting this out there because it's life-changing to have answers. And bravo for coming so far!
Oh how easy it is to say “I’m fine, really I’m fine”. Thanks for being real and sharing your story. You are a beautiful lady and I enjoyed listening to you. 👏🦋🕊️❣️
Spanking is horrible. I do remember why i was hit, but that does not mean I learned anything positiv. I only learned to hate the things I was hit about it. Even now as a midle age adult I strugle with cleaning because it provokes me phisical pain and anxiety. And this is just an example. So many negative consequences...
So glad I never got into the Bob Jones curriculum for my children when I was homeschooling my children. You had to get a specific satellite just to get their curriculum! That was a huge red flag for me! Especially seeing the “all in” families at my IFBC were the first ones to jump on that bandwagon!
Great interview! Haven't thought about Gunnisax in years. I winder if Gothard had your phones tapped & had someone listening in on your conversations. I am so glad you got your happy ending you both deserved it.❤ "Sit down Lindsey I have been making moves on you for far to long with no results" time for you to move. I wonder if others thought you were doing something with Bill on your late nights stuck with him in prayer? Maybe thats why they were not friendly with you? Your voice sounded like a 8yr old girl at 18. Is that encouraged? It reminds me of the Duggar Mom.
The crazy thing with smacking children, is the USA is one of the few developed countries left that hasn’t made it illegal. The UN recommend this back in 1989! What’s even crazier is that it’s still not illegal in 19 states pubic school systems (and 48 states private schools). I live in New Zealand and despite only having made smacking illegal in 2007, corporal punishment of children in schools was outlawed almost 60 years ago.
I LOVE that Lindsey did NOT let them remove her mole! Good for you! You should take pride in yourself for standing up for yourself when you were SO young and surrounded by yes-sayers! 🙂👍
The dark setting is Jonathan's studio setting. It's right next to each other. Shelise showed the studio room with the two very differnt settings sometime back.
It's scary how much control this allowed parents, but especially how much was just put on the girls. Anyone who says a little kid needs to be covered up so men don't "stumble" should be locked away from kids. I think that tape is such a good example of the baby fundie voice
I always wondered where my parents got the idea to clamp down on me as I grew up. Now I know. My security was tight, and worse when I finally got to high school- my sibling attended school with me.
The emotional manipulation, especially in those high demand denominations, is likely what keeps so many people trapped in it. Limiting their education doesn’t allow for freedom of thought… freedom of thought leads to questioning their “rule” over the masses. I’m glad she is free from those constraints and I am so sorry Lindsey for the manipulation you endured. ❤
The leaders of these cults brainwash their followers into submission and obedience. You are then not capable of or allowed to think for yourself. Cult expert Dr. Steven Hassan has developed the "BITE model" of mind control which explains this.
OMG! This happened in my family!!! Fucking Bill Gothard! I"m 45 and don't trust my parents to this day! Yep even the no friends and renting a 13" ver tv from Blockbuster!
Love the fact you can have in person conversations while the other parent takes care of baby and behind the scenes work. You both always do well allowing survivors to speak their truth and shine a light.
It’s the way parenting should be! ❤
Yeah, I my faith in fathers comes back, after I lost it when I had babies
I've been saying for years, the lack of sex ed is only good for a predator. it is crazy that so many children don't get basic sex ed in America. In my country, the Netherlands, it is mandatory to teach it to kids and it should include knowing your own body, how to say no, what sexual abuse is and what sex is. It prevents csa and it always makes me super suspisious when someone thinks a child shouldn't know this
And it's purposeful, they know that children who don't understand consent or how their own bodies work, are children who don't have the vocabulary to get help. Not that it should ever be on the child, but it is what it comes down to
In the US they want kids to be vulnerable and able to be messed with, unfortunately. Preying on children is that common here
You would think it’s just common sense, but it set up a total situation for predatory behavior!
This was rejected by the Church. This was a one of the issues that was part of the ‘The Separation between Church and State’.
The ‘Church’ feared that their Children would somehow become more promiscuous if they were taught ANY type of Health or Sex Education was seen Sinful and not of their “Beliefs”.
Unfortunately this allowed the Predators of not only Children but many young adults.
A prime example is how my Mom thought about sex education. She was born in ‘33 and when I was in school in the mid 70’s was that she didnt feel the need to teach me not only about sex, predators, but about me starting my monthly cycles. When I got older I asked her why she never told or taught me things things. Her response was “Thats what the School is supposed to do” 🫨 And the only thing I was taught about the opposite sex was .. I was NOT to let a boy touch me in ANY way and to NOT talk or get into strange cars. I was very fortunate to not have any bad things happen, but it ABSOLUTELY stunted my dating and interaction with the opposite sex.
I made DAMN sure that I tell my kids EVERYTHING and explain why I was telling and warning them of Bad people, Predators both Men AND Women.
we did sexed in science. i remember we did it through science and the UK circulum in the international school. i feel so sorry for these kids.
Why, Why, a thousand times WHY would hundreds of thousand of adults take parenting and marriage advice from a Man who was never married or had kids???? I am baffled by this. Love Lindsey and relate to living in fear of a Father coming home and horrible whippings for accumulated transgressions throughout the day. I learn and hear something different every time Lindsey speaks.
This. I am a homeschool mom and I would never touch this propaganda written by someone with zero experience with actual pedagogy with a ten food pole.
I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences with your dad. That's awful.
Think of it this way- the people who listened to him probably didn’t know that to start out. They probably just knew what they’d heard from other people, and he was probably described as a smart man whose advice they could trust. They probably then bought some books, took a course, and started going “wow, he’s so smart, just like my friends said!” And by the time they might’ve heard that he was never married and had no children, they likely decided that it didn’t matter because they liked what he had to say and that it didn’t matter to them whether or not he had any experience with marriage or kids after all.
@emro164 my gosh you are so right you have convicted me because I just last year came out of what's 60 years plus of blind Christianity where I never questioned anything about the Bible or crazy things I have been taught I guess that answered my own question with a little bit of help from you!
Jesus didn’t have a wife or children, yet apparently that hasn’t stopped anyone from following his teachings.
I knew a couple of families who were involved with this nonsense and I just sensed that, despite appearances, they were not happy people.
My most vivid and telling memory was of their four-year-old son coming up to me and proclaiming “God doesn’t like it when women wear pants.”
Even though I was a little shocked, I managed to reply “Yeah, well I think God cares more about what’s in my heart than whether I’m wearing pants or not.”
Poor little kid.
Four years old, and they already have ingrained in their tiny, little male child to be an abusive tiny tyrant towards women - grown adult women. And I bet if you confronted his parents about what he said to you, they would defend his behavior. It's appalling how they indoctrinate these children from birth. 😢
My grandfather taught me when I was little that I wasn’t responsible for anyone’s emotions but my own. He was pretty clear about what the metaphor of if thine eye offend thee; if you can’t handle how something looks, don’t look or don’t be there.
"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out" used to be literal, not just metaphor. Scary.
Cool guy!
@@dawnpalmby5100I don’t know- I used to get catcalled constantly before I bought my first car, and I still get harassed when I walk somewhere, and I absolutely LOVE that Bible verse. It might actually be my favorite.
If the girl is going to be blamed for "defrauding", then the boys must be blamed for "defrocking".
THIS needed to be said!
What is (de)frocking?
Boys are never to blame. Doesnt matter what religion. Its always the girls fault
@@zoar5768
“To formally remove the rights and authority of someone.”
displacing/depriving/expelling:
of status of authority
My churches have always held the males and females to the same level of responsibility.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
Always!
In the early 70s I attended a Bill Gothard seminar and thought it was ridiculous. The Christian rock band my boyfriend was in took it very seriously. During a break I found them earnestly discussing cutting their hair and not "summoning demons" with their drumbeat. I told them they would not attract any young people if they did that. My boyfriend was convinced he had to cut his hair to not be in rebellion against God. I told him I'd break up with him if he did that. Not because I liked his long hair (I did) but because he was so weak that some conservative old dude could tell him how to honor God. He did it and we broke up.
I would say that you dodged a bullet. If you had married him, you would have become his servant and slave in this authoritarian system.
never understood the cutting the hair thing when it comes to Christian cults…pretty sure Jesus and the boys had long hair 🤷♂️
I was a part of and married while in the authoritarian, life and mind-controlling, shepherding, charismatic, IBLP-following, Christian Growth Ministries cult in the 1970's and 1980's. They pulled me out of college and ruined my life. Their teaching are damnable. I just had my 69th birthday. I have been in a mostly unhappy marriage for almost 47 years. I have deconstructed from fundamentalist, charismatic and evangelical Christianity in the last two years. I continue to learn, grow, and gain personal power. Millions of lives around the world have been and are being damaged and destroyed in these systems. May these cult leaders rest in piss. I can't wait for part 2! I AM sorry for what I believed, said, and practiced while in these cults. Thank you Shelise for this channel. I subscribe to and follow your videos "religiously." Thank you Lindsey for the strength and courage you have exhibited by telling your story. These religious cult leaders and their teaching must be stopped before more lives are damaged and destroyed. They are, as we can see, trying to control our freedoms and push their agenda by controlling the government. I was told, "Democracy is ungodly!" They want a theocracy in which THEY can control OUR lives. This election we must vote for freedom and democracy. Shelise, keep on exposing THEIR evil deeds and telling the truth!
Yes, and they are frighteningly close to succeeding. Donald Trump will let them do whatever they want. If they win, and if there are elections, only white, “Christian” men will be allowed to vote. I hope rational citizens understand the serious threat they pose.
I hope we will have a world where it will be illegal to practice ANY religion for children. They can learn about all religions at school and analyze the illogical, but no communions, confirmations, batisms or any recitings of any "scriptures" until you finish high school.
@@lotuspointsI have lived in an atheist country and sadly horrible abuses take place under such regimes as well.
Having the rules change from day to day and when you say something they tell you you’re wrong. That was the worst.
I am LOVING the in person interviews! I know they're not always possible but she's right, the energy is so much better.
Also loving Jonathan's solo interviews. ❤
Gentle parenting teaches trust, hitting children teaches "I'm bigger than you and I can hurt you, and there's nothing you can do about it " which sets kids up to be abused or to abuse others. Do the research.
Really good advice!
Gentle parenting (social media style) causes trauma too. There aren't only 2 options for raising kids.
I was spanked as a fairly young kid and I used to think, "At least my parents did it right." They would tell us why we were being punished, how many swats we'd receive, would never use their hands, would show us love afterwards, and they stopped altogether after a time. It wasn't until today that I see how that still instilled fear into my siblings and I, and I think that's what a lot of parents operate on: I'll make my kids scared to do that again. That was back in the mid 80s, so there wasn't much info floating around on the long-term impacts.
Overall my parents were pretty good, but I bet they could have come up with other methods of discipline had they thought about it.
Flds and iblp is my favorite thing yall cover. Iblp is the most healing for me since I grew up in it. I will listen to however many hours you give. Thank you shelise ❤
I’m so happy to hear that! We have a few more of both coming soon❤️❤️
Me too
Same here!
I so appreciate the introduction pieces of this interview. I started down paths like this when i began homeschooling (I am a trained teacher). I revered the Duggars. Plz be kind and know that I leaped further and further away as I watched friends require dresses and cruel disciplinary actions toward their children. My personality tends toward loving rules and consistency, so I was primed to head that direction. Ended up working very hard to attempt to let my kids be themselves and not have as many rules... and send them to school if they wanted. (One child chose a hybrid option in order to work ahead.) I see in my own upbringing how crazy some of the restrictions were. Its hard. We are trying to do our best to help our kids become great, happy people who contribute to society. Im glad i caught myself before i took things too far.
Her voice at 18 sounds like a 11 year old 😮
I am so glad that someone took the time to scan these "Wisdom" booklets. As a graduate student, studying religious extremism, this channel is an amazing educational resource. So much of my coursework focuses on the analytical side of religious extremist groups, as opposed to what it is like as an individual in these organizations.
I think Lindsey managed to explain nicely the IBLP cult. Hands down to her and all of the brave guests for comming out and educating us, and hands down to you, Shelise, for creating this space of compassion knowing that you too get to relive some of your own trauma. Love you, CtC Team!
Thank you so much!
I was born into Jehovah’s Witnesses and I had a similar triggering experience with an elder in my congregation except it ended in full on r!pe. It’s not surprising how similar all these cult stories are. 😢
That’s awful. I’m so sorry ❤️
I was raised pretty fundamentalist, but I’m so glad my dad had the discernment to stay away from Bill Gothard and anything concerning him. I remember as a kid he said he had a bad feeling about that man and the Duggers. My siblings and I were homeschooled, but my dad was a computer science engineer he was very educated, all of my siblings were very intelligent and passed their SATs and ACT with flying colors and eventually went on to college. It breaks my heart to see stuff like this especially since I have a brother now that is the cult that is pretty closely connected with the Duggers and Bill Gothard so I love hearing peoples testimonies about people who got out.
Wow! I am so so happy you had a smart father who had the ability to think for himself and recognize Bill's teachings were not going to support his children for the future. I wish so deeply I could have had the educational building blocks in my early years. It would have made emerging from the religious beliefs a bit easier. Happy to be out though and am so glad you've been spared this upbringing! You're a great example of smart, responsible homeschooling!
@@thecultchronicles I consider myself so very lucky. Every time I run into a teen or young adult that’s very clearly involved in the Goatherd cult it takes every ounce to not yell at them to run as far as they can from that life
This brings back stinging memories of throwing all of my records into the trash as I felt pressured by pastor influenced by Bill Gotthard. The brainwashing was gradual and looking back, I’m horrified that I so readily complied. The lyrics weren’t the issue, it was the beat, especially led by drums. Praise God that I found the strength to leave the extreme legalism.
I'm so sorry. I know the feeling all too well! I had several CD's taken from me at HQ and they were soundtracks like Emma and Sense and Sensibility!! So ridiculous how terrified they all were of a falsehood that a beat was going to drum up satan. I'm glad you're free of the legalism! It is oppressive and inaccurate raising terrified and judgmental children.
Sad to know that so many parents were sucked into this.
Just ONE of the things that is so appalling is that L. was legally an adult, and yet Gothard and her dad infantilized her and totally controlled her life.
By infantilizing, I mean L. wasn’t educated properly or taught the life skills she needed to live as an independent adult.
This Gothard thing is an onion with LOTS of layers to peel-fascinating and horrifying to learn about.
I would definitely say my wings were clipped at an early age. My potential was stifled and then controlled by domination over everything I did. Thank you for listening and for your compassion and understanding on this situation. ❤
Haha I absolutely love her 18 yo self saying over and over thinking "that's a crazy idea.". Because her 18 yo self was already trying to stifle that question in the back of her mind, "why am I doing all this?" and it kept bubbling up in her testimony.
I have been in church regularly since I was 7 or 8 and made the decision as an adult to continue attending on my own. I am so thankful the churches I have attended have always encouraged questioning so that we could learn and know why we believe what we believe and what we believe. I was never expected or encouraged to just believe whatever I was being told by my church leadership or parents. And we still have spirited conversations amongst the different generations.
I developed a way with my son that was essentially a timeout that was focused on letting him consider the situation and be able to have a conversation about it. I did not require any particular outcome, just that he could consider both sides and have a discussion. At the level he was. I called it restriction. He was restricted from his activities, until we could resolve the "problem" action. Otherwise, I put him in a safe environment to explore unrestricted. I only put in restriction when his exploration became harmful to himself or other living beings. It put the ability to lift the restriction in his own hands. He was allowed to come off restriction as soon as he was willing to have a little conversation about it. I always saw modeling physical hitting as a resolution technique as oxymoronic.
But that takes time, education on child development (formal or self taught), having empathy, introspection, and wanting what’s best for the other person…they want blind obedience, in the short term, lack of empathy and introspection, and have a dependency on a false belief of how children are to be raised according to their religion that’s thousands of years old. Too much work! An unruly child reflects poorly on them and that’s all they are thinking about. How it looks not what’s best for the child.
Hearing her on the tape sounds exactly like the Duggars. Sadly, even the ones who have publicly repudiated IBLP like Jinger still sound like this. I know Jinger thinks she has left but she didn’t escape because she just traded for another cult. Everything is still sweet or on her heart like the tape. It shows how deep those fundamental teachings warp you, how Christian Fundamentalism has warped Christianity itself.
I’m glad you escaped and understand how you were impacted by the abuse.
The tape still gives me goosebumps because it reminds me and proves to me just how far I have come. The fight, the insecurity, feeling insufficient, was a decades long struggle. Then I hear this and I realize just how insanely conditioned I was. Its not easy to break the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual habits. For the Duggar girls, it may take them 20 years before they are able to shed some of these conditioned behaviors.
Therapy is what helped me to see so clearly how I was damaged and the work I needed to do to change up my physical, mental and emotional habits. xo
Wow, Thar voice from the past is heartbreaking. I'm glad you're in a better state of mind now. Knowing the context the tape is eerie.
A 35 year old dude pursuing a 17 year old girl?! 🤢🤮
It still amazes me how much of these terrifying and ridiculous cult teachings are in the small baptist church in sleepy little maine that i attended for 3 years. I am so grateful I escaped it, and got the hell out of there! Thank you for sharing your story!
So glad you got out!! Yay for escape! :-)
Ewww..please tell me that this preditor is locked up. Thanks for your bravery for speaking out Lindsey. We need more people like to you speak. God Bless!
Unfortunately he is not locked up. It's one of the reasons I participated in the Shiny Happy People Documentary. He needed to be exposed on an international platform! There is another doc still trying to raise money to launch without having any platform determining how they share their abuse stories about Bill. It's called "Until the Truth". These women were also Gothard Girls and are some of the women who brought the lawsuit against him for sexual abuse.
Lindsey. The recording shows how much you had a desire to serve. You’re doing it now!
Thank you for sharing your story. Never stop telling your truth, it will help so many other girls and women.
That means so much. It's the reason I wanted to do the documentary and why a year later I am STILL out here sharing more of my story! Thank you for hearing me and for the support!
this is one of my favorite interviews on CTC. My homeschooled by xian fundamentalist upbringing was similar in many ways to this. Even abeka was mentioned & I remember that curriculum! I got my GED as a young adult & plan to continue my education now that my 5 kids are a little older now. Thankyou for being here & being you
... both of you... all of ya'll over there. 😂🎉 signed, exhomeschooled fundie in Texas
Thank you for having Lindsey on. She’s one of my heroes as she has worked through all this and sharing her story
I think one of the biggest problems with "gentle parenting" is that people only know how to discipline through spanking so sometimes they go too far in the other direction by not disciplining at all through other means. I think discipline is 100% important and necessary but NOT by hitting your child!
The problem is really that people don’t know what gentle parenting actually is. What you’re describing is passive parenting, and it is not effective. Gentle parenting is about giving choices, giving kids a chance to make the right choice, and if they don’t you make it for them. It’s about explaining why things are important instead of using “because I said so” and things of that nature.
@@raigenhuss7030I agree with you 100%. I have to say when you have a 3 year old asking why over & over when you've explained why over & over "because I said so“ usually works.
I took a bunch of child development and ECE classes at community college when my kiddo was a baby and toddler. The idea was presented that discipline is supposed to mean guidance. It should be instructive, not punitive bc that doesn’t help anybody learn. Natural consequences can be useful, when developmentally appropriate - overall, It is a tremendous amount of hard work, and all I knew when I started, is I didn’t want to yell like my parents had done.
Super worth it to learn, though. My kid is 13 now and I’m fiercely proud of her ethics and sense of self 💜⚡️
@@RobertaReal7980lol I get that. I work with kids, usually when the question is asked over and over, I turn it around and say “what did I already tell you?” And that usually nips it
@@raigenhuss7030 That's very true!
I am loving all of your videos! I am a homeschooling Christian mamma. And I know the possible positives and negatives to that kind of environment. I am so interested in hearing about other peoples lives! Learning this stuff is so interesting to me! I can’t wait to teach my kids about these topics when they are old enough to comprehend them!
I completely agree with you. I'm a Christian mom of two; currently not homeschooling but I support some homeschooling curriculums.
This is how I was raised, my home wasn’t very loving, but I at least got an excellent education from my mother, I graduated high school with flying colours. I was on a strict curriculum, they ARE out there. There is no excuse.
I totally relate to the long Bible reading sessions! My ex husband (former pastor) would read and expound to the family in the evening for sometimes 45- an hour. We had 10 kids and always little ones. Once I left, my kids couldn’t tolerate Bible reading. It was traumatizing. I took them to church and only now, 6 years later, can my kids still at home participate in a reasonable time of biblical reading or discussion.
Their dad never had any concern for the comfort of little ones or an exhausted wife. To him, it was the Bible so we should be engaged for however long he wanted. And that doesn’t even include the 20 minute prayer! We are still healing but have come a long way.
Sounds like he likes the sound of his own voice lol, or stuck in that cycle of shame and condemnation if he doesn't do what he believes God expects of him sadly. He'll walk around with with those shackles for his entire life unless he has a miracle.
He sounds like a controlling religious narcissist to me.
It was all about him not you not the kids. I'm very glad you were able to get away.
@@graceyoung3771 definitely likes the sound of his own voice. Genius IQ and believes he is smarter than most other people.
@@PB-dq9gi yep
A Christian community in New Zealand was taught by Bill Gothard that it is sinful to have a mortgage (debt), and one should rent and save until one could buy cash. The friend who was telling me about it, decided with her husband, to keep paying off their mortgage. They watched as others sold their houses and started renting in poorer areas so they could save up, and where they had unsafe neighbours and their washing was stolen off their lines ... No young family in New Zealand can save up enough to buy a house for cash, while paying rent. It's impossible!!
What a phenomenal guest. That spunk and rebellion saved her life and spirit inside and outside of the cult. So proud of you and everything you've accomplished and proud to see your fighting spirit is still shining bright ❤❤
My upbringing was secular but this story of physical abuse by parents really resonates with me. My mother was very angry all the time and I was in trouble constantly, despite being a straight A student and a really good kid, and I was physically punished all the time. All I learned from those encounters was that I could not trust my parents and I felt unsafe in my own home. I carry trauma from this into my 40s and now am in therapy to correct my self-hatred and lack of self-compassion stemming from my experience.
I can only imagine that adding a religious element to this makes everything 100 times worse.
Wishing you all the best
Thank you for sharing. I’m so sorry you went through that. Sending love for your healing journey ❤️
I am so proud of my friend Lindsey and her warrior like way of sharing her story boldly.
I would be trying to sue my parents for neglect or abuse. they literally mistreat their children by not educating them on basic anything. WOW how sad. You are all so very brave to leave the cults.
I wonder how her dad handled having women above him in rank while he was in the military. He couldn't assert control in those situations, but could at home tenfold.
If you keep the flock uneducated, it's tough for them to figure out what the cult is doing. And very difficult for them to leave if they do.
Yes, it is intentional
Bare minimum parenting doesn’t allow a child to thrive. Been trying to get my mom to understand this but she really thinks that because I had clothes to wear and food to eat and was taken to school on time that means they went “above and beyond for me” meanwhile I was being hit for every little thing and if I made a mistake it was “what the f** is wrong with you ??!” And constantly being told “trust is earned not given” as an excuse to never allow me to make friends or leave the house or even have privacy in my own room by shutting the door so I could read / draw in quiet.
Lindsey and Shelise y’all are both so amazing and watching your dynamic on this episode is so powerful!! ❤️
Thank you Davey for connecting us!😁❤️
What an eye opening conversation! I appreciate her honesty.
I appreciate you saying so 🙂I so deeply want others to feel seen, heard and not alone!
I could listen to her all day. She is so well-spoken and able to express herself in a way that is genuine but also gentle enough not to traumatize the audience. She’s brilliant.
omg, you are so so kind. I always hope my story doesn't necessarily retraumatize but help others see their stories in mine. We all need to hear each others stories to know we are not alone. Thank you so much for listening to my story. xo
Oh my! There are so many events Lindsey spoke of that I resonate with from the high control religion I growing up in.
You summed up the parental corporal punishment so well.
There were times I had no idea why I was getting the strap. I learnt nothing from it except the people who said they loved me where inflicting their frustration on me.
Lack of quality education is a form of control.
If a parent truly wants to help their child make good choices then teach them what and why.
Show them what a good decision is…like no hitting others.
This 🙌
Speaking as a public school teacher for over 20 years, research shows most children learn through visual (seeing), tactile (touching) and kinesthetic (doing and moving), rather than auditory (hearing and listening) and verbal (using words both in speech and writing). Even though I teach using every way, I teach mostly through visual, tactile and kinesthetic. I'm sorry homeschooling taught you nothing. I know not all people do a bad job, but I see some return to public school with nothing learned during that time.
Thank you for this comment! I am not a homeschooling mom but we work a lot on learning outside of school. This is so helpful for me!🫶
Thank you so much for sharing your story 💜 Can’t wait for episode 2! I would honestly listen to you two talk for 5 hours. Great interview 💜
Wow, thank you!
Me too!
Just hearing his name triggers me and I never met him in person.Just so angry that he fed my ex husband’s NPD and escalated my exes NPD into overdrive. However it did help me to get out sooner with my children. Can’t bring myself to say thank you to IBLP for that. This cult is pure poison ☠️
Good for you for getting out!
@@PB-dq9gi thanks so much❣️It’s been almost 19 years ago now and me and my grown children are still struggling with the repercussions!
Doing so much better now, though❣️👍🏼❤️🥰
Mother here of a soon to be first year college son who is 19. And a 14 year old going into high school. My husband and I have always done gentle parenting. I was and still am a stay at home momma. We are also very open and honest with our kids. We have all the conversations with our boys that need to had. We let them ask us anything they want. And we explain it the best that we can. I really have to brag how amazing my boys are. They are kind, respectful, smart, funny and amazing and so much more. We are a very close family. They are so smart both excel in school. My soon to be college man got a full ride scholarship with a very well o ow college in TN to study neuroscience to become a brain surgeon and the other wants to work for NASA. We have never once spanked or put our hands on our kids. But they also o ow right from wrong. We have been complimented for years on how respectful they are. And I love o have been with them both since the day they were born. We don’t have family close. And my husband and I have done it on our own.
I love that!! Congrats on being a loving parent to successful children ❤️
Speaking of words of encouragement, I hope you are doing well in your journey as a new mama, Shelise. You are at a parenting stage (after the initial newborn glow stage where everybody wants to help and check on you) where I had some struggles emotionally. Becoming a parent is a whole new world and it can be amazing but it is totally ok to feel all of the feelings. I just wanted to virtually check in on you and remind you that you are not alone and to remind you that you've got this!
P.S. Your baby is gorgeous, just like her parents.
My mother was quite into church when we were growing up. Especially when my sister and I were in high school. The book “To Raise Up a Child” came into our orbit but, our church was fairly progressive and believed Jesus was too. My mother never could buy into the part where she had to shame her own daughters for being who we are. Thankfully, she rejected that sort of teaching and she smelled a rat from the beginning. She wasn’t a perfect parent, she made a lot of mistakes but, going along with teaching her daughters they were inherently shameful wasn’t one of those mistakes.
I am loving these in person interviews/ discussions. You can see and feel the chemistry.❤
Supreme Christian Leader made me laugh. The MO of Bill described here is the exact same as what I have heard other victims/survivors say. He definitely had a pattern. I might have to go and check out the Wisdom Booklets. On the podcast Leaving The Village (hosted by former ATI girls), they go through a couple and talk about their educational experiences. It was a few years ago now, but I was shocked when I listened. I knew the Wisdom Booklets were lacking, but it was just so much worse than anything I imagined. Thank you for saying trauma changes your brain chemistry, Shelise. It absolutely does, we have the data to prove it, and not enough people will denounce hitting children unequivocally. Hearing your mom say she knew but wasn't ready to handle it--I am so sorry! I wish I could say I can't imagine, but my mother is very similar. It confirms my fear that so many boomers know and understand, they just choose not to engage because their emotionally lazy and don't want to have to do anything about it.
Fear does NOT = respect. As someone who was hit as a child, out of discipline (& parental anger), I do NOT spank my child & believe there are healthier alternatives to physical punishment.
Yes, this. We didn’t learn to take responsibility for ourselves and our choices through being hit or spanked. We learned to hide. We were in fear. We never told our parents if we made a mistake or were confused about something. Spanking doesn’t teach anything but, fear. It’s abuse. I learned to feel responsible for my own choices more from my grandmother who held us accountable through talking and listening. Hitting achieves compliance until the child is out of your sight and that’s it.
Thank you for continuing to give voices to these survivors. ❤
What a gross and disgusting man - and that is the nicest thing I can say about him. So glad the truth is coming out and glad you are safe and thriving! ❤
agreed!
I absolutely loved this episode and cannot wait for the next. I feel like you two are going to be new besties & it makes my heart so big and happy
I thought I was the only person who cried because of math problems I didn't understand! But I was in public school and had math teachers who were like, "well, I explained it. Either you get it or you don't."
same here!
Thank you so much for speaking out about your experience, Lindsey❤
“I will only fast for a medical procedure “ lol. I absolutely love that. You absolutely rock.
So excited you had Lindsey on!!! She is amazing!!!!
It's all simply unbelievable!
Thank you for telling your story here! And Shelise you look so beautiful! Absolutely glowing in this.
I'm only 24 minutes in, but do you know if you're dyslexic or dyscalculic? As a severely dyslexic and dyscalculic person who went to dyslexia schools, you sound like you'd fit right in-just putting this out there because it's life-changing to have answers. And bravo for coming so far!
Oh how easy it is to say “I’m fine, really I’m fine”. Thanks for being real and sharing your story. You are a beautiful lady and I enjoyed listening to you. 👏🦋🕊️❣️
Looking forward to the next installment!
Excited for this interview. Absolutely love this channel. All the guests are absolutely amazing and so brave. They all have my support. ❤
Thank you so much!
@@CultstoConsciousness thank you for all the hard work you do. Absolutely addicted to your channel. 🙏🏿
I relate so much to this episode. Thank you ❤
"Constructs and confines" 💯 break free of the constructs
Wow. I mean, these things are horrible but what a story! And the two of you together is just so much fun! Can't wait for the next one ❤️
Spanking is horrible. I do remember why i was hit, but that does not mean I learned anything positiv. I only learned to hate the things I was hit about it. Even now as a midle age adult I strugle with cleaning because it provokes me phisical pain and anxiety. And this is just an example. So many negative consequences...
" Christian fundamentalist ideology ", is the current American shuria law. What we have going on in the u.s. , is scary.
Amazing hearing her previous self recorded. What a testimony
So glad I never got into the Bob Jones curriculum for my children when I was homeschooling my children. You had to get a specific satellite just to get their curriculum! That was a huge red flag for me! Especially seeing the “all in” families at my IFBC were the first ones to jump on that bandwagon!
Lindsey, so brave of you to go for and succeed at cosmetology. You’re amazing and you’re very well spoken. Thank you for sharing your story.
Great interview! Haven't thought about Gunnisax in years.
I winder if Gothard had your phones tapped & had someone listening in on your conversations.
I am so glad you got your happy ending you both deserved it.❤
"Sit down Lindsey I have been making moves on you for far to long with no results" time for you to move. I wonder if others thought you were doing something with Bill on your late nights stuck with him in prayer? Maybe thats why they were not friendly with you?
Your voice sounded like a 8yr old girl at 18. Is that encouraged? It reminds me of the Duggar Mom.
The crazy thing with smacking children, is the USA is one of the few developed countries left that hasn’t made it illegal. The UN recommend this back in 1989! What’s even crazier is that it’s still not illegal in 19 states pubic school systems (and 48 states private schools). I live in New Zealand and despite only having made smacking illegal in 2007, corporal punishment of children in schools was outlawed almost 60 years ago.
The US needs a lot of help in this area as well as others. It's so egregious.
Great interview! I have watched all the Lindsey episodes on Davey’s channel and think she is great!
Me too
I LOVE that Lindsey did NOT let them remove her mole!
Good for you!
You should take pride in yourself for standing up for yourself when you were SO young and surrounded by yes-sayers! 🙂👍
Me too! It is mine and it has always been something I liked about myself. :-)
You're helping so many people Shelise, keep it up!! ❤
I agree with SAT tests should be in all states. That will help those children who have their education mismanaged.
The studio set up is wonderful. I love the color differentiation between the host and the guest. And the camera switch is perfect.
The dark setting is Jonathan's studio setting. It's right next to each other. Shelise showed the studio room with the two very differnt settings sometime back.
Thank you for sharing your story
I eagerly look forward to part two.
thank you, great sharing. 🎉
Testimony totally brought me back to my evangelical period. 😂
It's scary how much control this allowed parents, but especially how much was just put on the girls. Anyone who says a little kid needs to be covered up so men don't "stumble" should be locked away from kids. I think that tape is such a good example of the baby fundie voice
Sooo many "testimony" phrases are so similar to me... Former High control church goer.
yep! hard not to feel triggered by it at times!
I feel sorry for her. Someone should have saved her. I am so glad for this channel. It takes so stress off
I always wondered where my parents got the idea to clamp down on me as I grew up. Now I know. My security was tight, and worse when I finally got to high school- my sibling attended school with me.
*we were put in public school when my mom wanted to go to college.
Bless her and all those who have been under evil people in the name of God. Those “leaders” will answer for their actions.
Love your channel! Ty❤
The emotional manipulation, especially in those high demand denominations, is likely what keeps so many people trapped in it. Limiting their education doesn’t allow for freedom of thought… freedom of thought leads to questioning their “rule” over the masses. I’m glad she is free from those constraints and I am so sorry Lindsey for the manipulation you endured. ❤
The leaders of these cults brainwash their followers into submission and obedience. You are then not capable of or allowed to think for yourself. Cult expert Dr. Steven Hassan has developed the "BITE model" of mind control which explains this.
OMG! This happened in my family!!! Fucking Bill Gothard! I"m 45 and don't trust my parents to this day!
Yep even the no friends and renting a 13" ver tv from Blockbuster!
Thank you for sharing ❤❤
Lindsey is so strong and so inspiring much love