The Lost Disney Game Pitch: Project Goliath - Unseen64
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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Unseen64 is an independent, non-profit online archive dedicated to the preservation of videogame history. Unseen64 contributors help document prototype, cancelled and unreleased videogames by archiving information, images, and videos for future reference. The organization is led by a collective of gamers from all around the world. If you would like to contribute, please read more at: www.unseen64.net/help
A small group of developers began work on a concept they called Project Goliath, with hopes of it being picked up by Junction Point (and by extension Disney), the creators of the Epic Mickey games. The initial stages of Goliath had revolving around a large gorilla protecting small children. This concept evolved into a relationship of Tarek the gorilla working together with a girl named Ky. The two would combine their skills of strength (Tarek) and intelligence (Ky) to overcome obstacles. Goliath was planned to be a 3D platformer, and was inspired by several other games of the time, including Jack and Daxter, Rachet and Clank, and Shadow of the Colossus. The game was planned for released on the Nintendo Wii, PlayStation 3 (PS3), and Xbox 360, though the game never entered full production and no gameplay prototypes were made. However, Junction Point was shoot down after Epic Mickey 2 under performed in sales. To add insult to injury, the group discovered that one of their team working on Project Goliath had plagiarized artwork from others.
Liam Robertson is a video game researcher and archiver. In his spare time, Liam creates videos and articles for Unseen64, but will also be contributing to the DidYouKnowGaming channel.
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Hi, everyone! This is Liam here, the creator of this video. I listened to a lot of your feedback and noticed there were a lot of requests for me to cover new IP's more since I had done a lot of licensed games. I tried something different for this video and got one of the developers to speak about the project on camera (something I rarely get to do for legal reasons). It took a long time to make this video happen so I hope you all enjoy it.
nice
hey! I follow you on twitter
Liam Robertson - Game History Guy why does it say 2 hours ago
Because I'm magic.
BURN THE WITCH!
I always wanted a game from Disney that wasn't based on a show/movie from them. Too bad what happened to this one...
Disney: Ultimate Alliance.
Damn that sucks. It must've crushed the developers to find out someone plagiarized. I could only imagine.
As a game tester for Disney, this kills me inside. They could really use more cool games that aren't involving Disney IPs.
As someone who's dream is to be a games designer, this story is both sad and scary for me.
It's sad because it's was such a great games with such great ideas and possibilities. To put that all down is so heartbreaking. :'(
And it's scary for me because even though I have not even remotely ever made a game, if any of my ideas, characters, etc. gets involved with plagiarism, that alone could ruin my reputation. :S
Pryexel 48, it's defiantly a fear to have for those who want to go into the video game industry. Really, any big dream someone may want to achieve has fears and downhills to them.
But as one of the new Kingdom Hearts trailer states, "Don't assume that your dreams are just fantasy. If you can imagine a world, believe in it... and dive in."
Anialem
Thanks. I needed that.
1. If you even need to question your issue with plagiarism, its a good idea to back down and *not* do what your doing ;p
2. This isn't a rare story. A lot of ideas and games are never accepted into prototype, with publishers, you need a good idea of what they fund and what they're unaware of yet.
On paper, this game doesn't sound any different from other dream-pitches, which is a bad idea for a rookie team showing the idea.
Best way to get the game you want to make, to be made..is swallow your pride. Redraft it for a year or two, make a prototype by yourself/anyone else who wants it..
And continually pitch the new version anytime they take submissions.
Pryexel 48 That's why you hide your shit for your fuckin life! Until the right opportunity comes to you and you know it cannot be taken advantage of because you got the handle of things.
A. Ruiz, well, when Walt Disney first started creating Mickey Mouse, his wife took interest in what he was working on. If Walt Disney hadn't shared his ideas with his wife, we'd be looking at a very different Mickey Mouse today, as she was the one who suggested Mickey's name.
I'm not trying to start a fight or anything. It's just...great things happen when you share your ideas, wether you know it or not. Some pretty horrible things can happen as well, as described in this video, but sometimes that's the risk we all have to take.
Goddamm I feel for these guys... 'specially upon discovering that their artist is actually plagiarising (its clear from the images shown that he has) Sounded like a good idea for a game too
While it's difficult to tell from just the video [and ultimately pointless] the image that was supposedly copied looks...
Kinda like it's been flipped and airbrushed... Obviously, it doesn't matter now, but combined with the astronomical odds of such similar subject matter being involved [Giant turtle island/cites, etc.] I can't help but wonder, you know?
This game sounds awesome.
I like this new format a lot. Getting things from the source is very refreshing.
Jskid666 they usually get information from devs but he usually doesn't show their face for legal reasons
make this game a Kickstarter and I would fund it. I don't care if it becomes a quarter of the game you discribed. Plagerism for concept art should not stop you from producing this game.
Jimmy Quinn yes
Jimmy Quinn yes, this game sounds like one i know many and I would love and probably treasure. It sounded great, but fate felt otherwise
Jimmy Quinn they would need hundreds of millions
I mean, it sorta should. Plagiarism in an industry all about creativity is absolutely damning, and I really don't think it should be tolerated. Granted, the game sounded really amazing otherwise, so it may have survived if they had hired someone else to do concept art, but I think the financial issues prevented them from salvaging it, which sucks.
I have once similar idea for a game. It was also about small creature/kid working with large weird and mute monster like but kind creature, to deal with some weird constructs in ruins left there by some kind of "Dark Lord" of which game would constantly remind us with the constant risk of him being reawaken and threat world again.. the twist would be that "Dark Lord" is on end revealed to be just abandoned broken power armor with someone else (kid father of creatures leader) being really behind all that crap.. and only force capable to stop it would be our monstrous friend who has some level of access to invaders system (and smarter then we though whole time) as he would revealed to be one of them, until he abandoned his duty after discovery of sentient life on the planet.
Thats a pretty sad story... That kind of betrayal...
You think the betrayal would come from Disney. Instead, it came from a friend, which makes it much more personal and sad. :(
This has been the only time I've felt truely sad about a cancelled game shown in one of these videos. It's the first one that has felt like it truely was a passion project. Not only that, but in paper, it sounded amazing. I can only hope that Goliath can still be pitched to somebody, and that I get to see a gem like this come out.
It's just really sad that this happened. The game had a lot of potential and I would've loved to play the game.
You should check Horizon Zero.. it has quite similar feel.
TheRezro immediately thought of this.
artists in colleges plagiarizing?!?! Color me surprised!
During my time at my college, there were so many twats who did this very same thing.
Pandan really!?
Animator in college right now, and I kid you not one of my classmates tried to pass off Rowlet from Pokemon as his own character
Robert Verdugo talk about lack of originality
I know the feeling. I had my fashion concepts stolen by other students, because they were rich and favoured among teachers (I was neither) the teachers believed the rich students and accused ME of stealing their designs, even though they were my designs (they even copied my watermark)
I am sorry to hear for your loss
This is really such a sad story for developers. Sometimes things never go right for an idea. Damn shame.
I alwaus wondered the consequences of plagiarism, since many cases are written off as coincidences. But the simple fact it can ruin a project this badly is just scary and sad.
From what I know law is in fact quite liberal and plagiarism is only copy-pasting stuff, not just taking inspirations as basically everything is inspired by something. In many cases creators are either scary cats who see problem where there in none or retrieve after false accusations despite it being simple to win. But yes.. in this case it was clear plagiarism, not that it would be huge deal overall as it was still a pre-production and concept arts rarely resemble final product anyway.
The only real consequence of plagiarism is word of mouth, but it is nothing to brush off. a guy from Disney interactive talks to a guy from Activision about the plagiarist, who then talks to a guy from Insomniac, who then talks to a guy at Microsoft, who then talks to a guy at Riot games; now that's 5 places where that person will not get work. bring the internet into this and the fact that companies do background checks, and that person is effectively exiled from the industry, never able to get work again.
I have an idea
Why not take this idea on Kickstarter? This guy is so passionate about it. I'm sure he could get the team back if they were crowdfunded. Especially from the publicity of this video, I would be happy to support them. We've seen a comeback with 3D platformers, so I don't see why not give them another shot.
We don't see yet such comeback.. but we do see attempts of that. Epic Mickey was in fact one of those.
It looks so fuckin awesome man. So sad, I would have loved to been in that World.
The Truth, sadly they can't... Atleast with the current art style, thanks to that plagiarizing artist. If they do try to revive Goliath they will need a new artist and art style.
Project Goliath feels very similar to "Enslaved: Odyssey to the West" (2010).
That sucks so much they work so hard. Them to get screwed over for some guy plagiarizing.
Just want say this.
Liam, this probably my favorite video and the one I always share with people. As a college student, this really got to me. I always insist people see it and my school's top art instructor and art club were pretty amazed and floored by the act of plagiarism since they credited the art. I look forward to more from you.
Hi Mark. I only just saw this, but thanks very much for the kind words. I appreciate that. I'm glad you enjoy the video that much and thank you for sharing it with others!
Here's some trivia: Did You Know Gaming--along with the rest of Polaris--is owned by the Walt Disney Company. Pretty creepy if you ask me.
Disney owns everything.
This may shock you, but Comcast and Time Warner own far more assets that The Walt Disney Company. It just so happens that Disney has the most memorable brands attached to it.
Not really,companies like Unileaver own tons of things and virtually nobody knows them.
Stephen Cody it's a small world after all.
The concept of a large brute with enhanced strength teaming up with a small, intelligent, humanoid woman to get out of a bad situation sounds kind of like Enslaved.
This would actually make an excellent TV show!
Both your review show and Project Goliath XD
I can see that.
I worked with Clay Hoffman back at Ion Storm, and I can confirm that he is a great guy, honest and very good at what he does. I had the pleasure of meeting his equally nice twin brother when I came out to LA. I wish him the best!
Man that was rough. I wasn't expecting this. But it's a story that should've been told. Good job on the video and sharing this creator's story.
What a shame. I would've enjoyed that game so bad... it had the a lot of potential.
this game sounded fucking amazing sad story i wish this game happened
I know it's plagiarized, but man! That guy who redesigned the art piece did a great job of redesigning it!
I feel like this game would've been a classic. Probably getting graphical remakes on the PS4 pro, Nintendo Switch, and Xbox one x...it's just really disappointing.
Josias M. Flores
I would feel a sequel on those systems would be more appropriate if the game was good enough.
True
For Christ's sake. Every video game pitch is the best game ever until reality sets in.
But that's just one picture that's plagiarized. can't he just destroy it from his portfolio and come up with a different idea for that picture?
BlazeHeartPanther Blaze
Yes and no. He can and probably did remove it from the portfolio. But because he did it once it's up to debate in how much of it was plagiarized.
Which can make it hard for people to trust you and the team you worked with.
Man, this is probably the saddest Unseen64 you've made. The game sounded so cool, and that betrayal at the end broke my heart.
Disney are quite undecided about their videogame business.
I know for this series it's damn near impossible to make this happen, But thank you so much for going to those extra lengths to get someone actually apart of this, unfortunately, failed project in the video. It really adds that extra emphasis, when you see someone who really cares about their work speak honestly about the rise and fall. Not that I don't like you're commentary, but nothing will ever beat first hand accounts of the story. So again, Thank you for all the effort and, if possible, I'd love to see it be a continued thing. Regardless, You know you've got our full support!
Breaks my heart seeing games with very high promise be scrapped, even more so with the plagiarism incident.
That actually sounds like a very interesting game.
Such a god damn shame...
Epic Mickey's biggest problem was the in game camera. It made the game so much more difficult than it needed to be.
Is Epic Mickey a good game? I've heard some say it's good while some say it's disappointing. Also Great video!
SailorVenusFan It's good! The camera can be a bitch but it's splendid!
It has a very heartwarming story, but the game play is pretty boring
SailorVenusFan it would be a great game if not for the mandatory motion controls
SailorVenusFan It is! They all are, really. Well, Epic Mickey 2 isn't as good as the first one due to some of the faults it has, but it's still a pretty decent game.
Not really. Both games were a big let down for me, personally. I liked the 3DS one though, but it's really, really short.
It's sucks that Disney could've made a new game IP, instead they had to sell stupid Skylanders knockoffs. And shut down their in house development. Epic Mickey wasn't that good, but Goliath would've been better and it would be Disney's answer to banjo kazooie.
I'm not sure they give a shit about that.. video games aren't they specialty and they don't have reasons to sponsor unprofitable studios if they can hire someone else to do the job. It is why there is no Lucas Arts anymore.
They are like Konami, they had a game in development, and then shut it down to save costs. And they want to focus on mobile gaming instead of AAA games, high profile studio like Lucas Arts shuts down. People lost their jobs over companies bad decisions.
Disney is all about milking IPs now, sadly. Just look at the MCU, or Star Wars, or worst of all the state of Disneyworld and Epcot.
Mokujo
Wrong.
If they couldn't pull off epic mickey, I doubt they would be able to do Goliath
The infinite worlds theory suggest this game should be out by now somewhere.
gasjebasje95 I wish I was in that world.
Was the piano music really necessary?
Good video. Very cool how you got an actual developer to speak during your video.
Dang, Man. That really sucks to see how it ended. There's this game that seems to have a lot of potential for not only having an interesting concept but possibly saving Junction Point from meeting their unfortunate end. But than here comes this anonymous person coming upon with evidence of just one piece of concept art plagiarizing another piece of art. And because of that, the whole project with down under along with Junction Point and any ways for them to redeem themselves for Epic Mickey 2. I wish they could bring in the guy who was accused of all this so we could hear his side of this story. There may be something else that he's yet to explain about this whole ordeal.
I'm pretty sure the plagiarist was female, and this isn't her first time pulling this stunt.
toastedxbiscuit.deviantart.com/art/Cute-Creatures-205464686
Her avatar thumbnail is "Goliath" the gorilla, and these drawings look awfully similar to stuff from Creature Box.
cod fava If this is to be true then she would really be one to blame for having such an interesting concept for a game get tarnished for her apparent lack of creativity.
Holy Crud I really wish this was made. It does feel like ratchet and clank meets SOTC
I'm glad I learned about this. That was a rollercoaster of emotions and it just furthers what some video game developers have been through to bring ideas to light. Every profession has it's difficulties, but damn that was really close to being much worse I think. Thanks for the video :)
I'd argue Epic Mickey had a lot of positive influence on Disney, even now. For decades they were afraid to do much with him, fearing he'd give people a negative view of the company, and now he's appearing in animated shorts, and his first-ever Disney Parks ride. Plus, they're bringing in Oswald here and there, a character they didn't even have access to for decades until Epic Mickey. I hope Goliath somehow eventually becomes a game, perhaps with a new artist (although if it becomes one at Disney, I hope they change the name, as not to confuse with Gargoyles' Goliath).
The main character was a gorilla who protected children?
[INSERT OBVIOUS HARAMBE ALLUSION HERE]
[INSERT COMMENT POINTING OUT THAT THE HARAMBE MEMES DIED OVER A YEAR AGO]
PsychicRadroach i was thinking overwatch
The 5500 I've had some bad museum experiences in the past... - Winston
Man, this video give me so many emotions, awe, sadness, respect, frustration, hope, fear, etc. I want to get into working on games someday, and I feel like I learned a good bit from this video, I am not exactly sure what all of the things are yet but this will get me thinking for a good bit, overall it's a shame everything that happened and similar stories like it, great concept, things seem to be going well, then something happens, sometimes out of their control, sometimes mistakes made on creators part, but it just sucks when stuff like this happens.
A shame project Goliath fell.. It would have been a great idea for a game.
Anyone want a shoulder to cry on ? ( wait till the end )
I never understood why Disney was so terrible with first party video game development.
I guess it's just that gaming is not being a high priority for them since they have so many different forms of entertainment already. Such as film, animation, tv shows, theme parks etc.
I'm really happy that recently Disney has announced that from now on they'll just license their ips to any developer who's interested we could potentially get some fantastic Disney games going foward but still R.I.P Disney Infinity i'm still sad you got shelved :‘{
As promising as Project Goliath sounded, I can't help but think the technological limitations of the systems back then would have compromised the team's vision. In fact, I don't think they would have been able to pull this off until 8th gen. As far as Epic Mickey goes, in retrospect, it probably would have been better for Junction Point to remaster the original for PS3, Xbox 360, and PC. Then work on a sequel after the remaster completed development. However, it's questionable whether or not JP would have been axed afterward anyway as Disney was clearly more interested in betting their future in gaming on toys-to-life.
This has to be one of the best yet sadder episodes of unseen. Damn, the worse part about this is that the project sounded so damn amazing too. This is why I can't stand Disney as a game publisher. They shut down all of their studios if one game underperforms. But still the artist sadly stole other art which caused thd game to not go anywhere after which sucks
Aw man, that story is kind of heartbreaking. It sounds like everyone involved had invested their heart and soul into the project, and for it to be ruined so quickly by someone so close to the team sucks, especially since Clay had taken a huge chance on them by even working with them at all. Really good video though, I don't think I would have ever heard about that project otherwise.
This was your best video yet. Thank you for your work!
P.S.: Give us The Wonderful 101 video pls ilysm
What a shame that things ended up like they did for this game. I was loving the way everything sounded as you explained the pitch, and I get the sense that this really would have went places, maybe even been a huge new IP, if things had gone differently.
Woah. This was a crazy well done interview / story.
This sounds awesome. I could totally see this getting picked up by Team 17 or Tiny Build
you won't believe the thousands of stories out there of projects that didn't make it or how things went awry. And we only get to hear a small % of them. So, very glad stuff like this got some exposure.
I have other stories crazier than this that would land me in hot water if I opened my mouth.
omg, this is so sad. I am crying on the inside.
So this was where Houston and tracer from overwatch came from.
I wish this game was made, it seems like it would be great
I'm actually an alum of SCAD in animation and watching this totally gives me the punch gut feeling, but what are the chances my favorite did you know gaming UA-cam channel covers a bit on my college. Great story guys!
It's sad to see such an imaginative world be crushed by unfortunate circumstances. I hope he's doing well for himself, including his colleagues
Epic Mickey is still my favorite game of all time. It's been 4 years and still been playing it
Wow this is incredible. Epic Mickey 1 is one of my favorite games. I remember having so much fun with it and playing it again recently provoked the same emotions of sheer fun. I'm surprised it never went over well. And watching this and seeing what Goliath could have been made me want to play it. It's really unfortunate that the art work and style has so much controversy attached to it because it would have been an amazing game in my opinion. I hope something can be done with the idea in the future. If something was ever kick started I would back it immediately.
Man, this would've been AWESOME.
"I've been Liam." Wait, are you _not_ Liam in daily life? The lies! The lies! :P
That sounded like such a cool idea, very reminiscent of shadow of the colossus which was an awesome game as well. Hearing that the project never got anywhere was sad, but hearing that the art was plagiarized and therefore the project was unusable on a Resume was absolutely heartbreaking :(
I understand.
Dang this was so sad and it required so much for me to listen all the way through. I mean it started hopeful and really bright and it ended in such a grim note. As an artist I feel for this guy who's idea was stolen. I cannot stand up for the "creator" of the artwork. You simply just don't do that especially knowing that art colleges who ask you to go through a review process WILL google reverse image your artwork just to make sure its not close to anything out there. it's within the user agreement when starting the application process.
for one its scary that my idea or anyone's idea can get shut down this quickly, but for another its eye-opening and educational. It does share some light on what the "consequences" of plagiarism is. It makes it more concrete and defined rather than "it will get bad for you" you know? Thank you, truthfully for sharing this painful experience.
Hopefully Project Goliath will be able to become reality someday (Epic Mickey 3 too, seriously those games were great and the universe has such awesome potential)
R.I.P &Disney Interactive*...
Aww man, they eere responsible for some of my most awesome memories growing up.
Oh wow. That game actually sounded amazing, too. I really hope that Project Goliath gets another chance someday. I really liked the concept and would love to see it come to life.
I just wanted to comment and say, Great job with these videos lately Liam. Between this video and the last one talking about the Sonic Skateboarding game, You have been killing it with bring us these amazing video game stories within the video game industry. To be honest, I would love to see this be turned into a full on UA-cam Red series where you can actually get more in depth with some of these projects and lost video games, but like you mentioned, Legal reasons could hinder that, but as a video game developer, this is very humbling to see. Granted most video game documentaries show you the successes and everything like G4 Icons or Indie The Game movie, but I find these overlooked projects much more endearing because it helps me prepare mentally of just the long trek I will need to go through to even be considered apart of the video game industry. It really is a interesting line of business. Just thank you Liam for uncovering these stories.
Thanks very much for the kind words! I appreciate it.
Dude, that has got to be the WORST experience as an up and comer. All your effort and passion being put into this one thing that you are trying to make work, completely crushed by one thing. Absolutely heartbreaking since the game sounds genuinely interesting, something I could get hyped up and follow through it's development process.
Wish these guys could get a real chance to make this game a reality.
really liked the video, if possible, try to get more interviews with game developers like this, it's fun to watch.
I for one am still interested in seeing this game get made.
I would've loved this game. Goliath would have been a beautiful, and action packed, and fun to play. Disney wasn't thinking about Junction Point and only thought of itself. Talk about devastating
Damn this really si a shame when great creative ideas are cast aside especially by trusted friends.
As an artist myself I feel like characters, concepts, stories those are very near and dear to many creatives hearts and to have this happen...I genuinly wouldn't know what to say.
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it leaves me speechless to know such a interesting idea will never see the day of light because of actions like this...
I attended a conference a few years back where Warren Spector was the keynote speaker and I remember him saying that he was still very proud of Epic Mickey 1 and was urging people to play it. The harsh criticism probably affected him but he doesn't seem to be upset by it now, mainly just disappointed that more mainstream audiences didn't play it as much as he was hoping.
This was a very touching video, thank you for uploading it!
This is good to know as a designer currently in school. Thank you for sharing this, it's both inspiring and provides a cautionary tale. I hope you're doing well!
I am and I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best of luck in school :D
I would have loved to play that. Goliath seemed like it would be an amazing story
I don't know if I love or hate these videos. They're really great but then they also make me really sad.
Wow, that was really gut wrenching to hear about the artist plagiarising the work and having it taint the entire project. That should not stop the entire project though, the whole concept was still original and sounds like a fantastic game.
I certainly hope somehow this game eventually happens!
This is a sad story because not only did that artist screw over his friends but he screwed over the gaming community because this games concept is really cool but because of the plagiarism issue it's likely that this game will never come out and all because one person couldn't wait to get his
Sad sad story here and amazing video! So well made. That's such a sad story though. That plagiarist is so talented he made the picture he plagiarized look way better IMO. Some VERY cool ideas here. Hopefully they become useful some day!
A really interesting Story and good presentation. Its a real bummer what happened at the end and i wish there team best of luck!
This was massively interesting, then sad, then disappointing. The game sounded like it would have been awesome.
This video was awesome! Keep up the great work
0:21 oh, how I wish this is what they had gone with for Epic Mickey. A dark Disney game would have been amazing.
Man, you could feel his emotions in that. That was brutal. Seemed like such a great game could have been created from it too. Too bad one person had to ruin it. But I am sure Karma has gotten this person. I hope that Alexander has been able to continue with his passion and pursue his dreams!
If only Epic Mickey could have been a tv series or movie instead of a video game....
The gameplay may have been dull, but I will forever praise it for its excellent plot and characters.
I feel like this series is only interesting for people who are really into the process of games getting made and it's usually pretty dull, but this episode was the first that felt really engaging and had a cool story and presentation that appeals to many.
the music at the end of the guy's statement was in very bad taste.
I actually laughed when the music came on when I was sent the rough cut. Liam asked me if it was alright and I told him that I didn't care. Its all good :D
Alexander Rohn so you are the big fat blob who talk from his basement?
This was a fascinating video! Thank you for making it.
Man that tag team game mechanic sounded awesome!!
My only question is what the gorilla is doing on the outside when the girl is inside the giant enemy and you're controlling her. Is he still fighting the enemy? Are he and the enemy just sitting there? I think they'd have had to try hard to make the subject of what the other character is doing when you're exclusively playing as one of them not easy to start dwelling on.
I would absolutely love to play the game. It's so unfortunate how it died as a concept.
DON'T GIVE UP!
Thank you
This is one of those games that just seem awe inspiring,I would have loved to play this and I feel bad it went under for such stupid reasons.