There’s a game called Swords Of Gurrah that released into Early access about 4 months ago. It’s a completely multiplayer melle combat game that it’s got this unique feature where blades will break and shatter on impact of each other you can parry by hitting the closer to the hilt of a weapon and they have a huge arrangement of weapons if you get hit your sword barracks yet the game doesn’t feel like a constant trading game. The devs and someone in the discord actually started a tournament starting on the 15th and it’s prize pool has just surpassed $1000 dollars! There’s not a lot of content in the game besides player vs player type game modes or fighting bulls and AI drones that shoot kunais at you but the devs on their discord (Devster) plan to add a whole Bunch. Of content katanas crossbows dragons hybrid weapon fighting styles and many new maps and game modes. The game certainly needs polish but it’s community and the fun I’ve had in it is like nothing I’ve seen before. Honestly it’s like Ironlights but 100 times better.
I heavily agree yeah this channel is one of the houses on the discord one of 8 and the games community is really welcoming and the dev really cares about the game playing it early every night and evening while the community feels big the player base is much smaller than most yet all you neeed is 1 lobby to have hours of fun and sweat your balls off. I will add that damage in the game is calculated by how fast and far your blade or blades have traveled with damage caps on each weapons and a lot of balancing to do. I will also add that your hands do have a bit of physics inside of them with a speed cap on your body (you have a full body) it’s not noticeable but it really helps with making everything feel smoother
I wonder how swords hitting each other would work in multiplayer tho, it's not like the controllers can mimic the movement of the sword bouncing back and stuff, but that'd work better in a single player I suppose
@@furosukki1301 yeah the swords braking stops from all the janky physics like if boneworks or blade and sorcery were multiplayer. as fun as it would be the physics just don't work with other people in the same virtual world. that's why the weapons shattering and reforming forks so well in Gurrah.
I don't think you can ever get it truly realistic without proper force feedback that can block your movements. But I've always wondered if we can compromise in a way that's more... Gamey. We expect VR to be like reality on some level, but at the same time we accept many of the absurd abstractions of traditional gaming. My first inclination for dealing with the mismatch is... Ghosting. By which I mean, you have a virtual body that obeys physics, but also a ghost body that obeys your real movements. Every time there's a mismatch, your ghost body is basically yanked out of the simulated physical body, and you can see both. (other players don't need to see YOUR ghost body) You can then use this for various reasons, such as ensuring you can't simply... Swing through someone's guard, and also asking players to move back to the position the physics dictates, or penalise them for it somehow. (like, say, you can't block properly for long if your position doesn't line up.) This also allows us to dictate physical results of weapon clashes based on RPG style character stats, not just the physical movements the players are capable of. No idea if this would work, but it would be something. Of course, it does break realism, but we have to accept that VR tech simply isn't good enough yet to simulate reality with full consistency, so, as we did with traditional games, we have to accept some level of abstraction and mechanical contrivances...
I really like Until You Fall. The sound design, outstanding graphics, and music go a long way to adding arcade fun to melee combat, even when the combat itself is not realistic. Those huge giants are very intimidating when they're swinging their hammers down on you.
Not specifically talking of the combat, but of the VR body: the solution the game Saints & Sinners went with, is for me, the best. Visible arms that go direclty to your head and that fade away if you look down under your arms. It's just the perfect solution. It's not an hassle to deal with your virtual body like in boneworks and its the most imersive as we don't have floating hands. Even more, the way the way they handled the inventory was better than everything else that came before. Every game dev should take notes on what was done in Saints & Sinners For me every VR game should follow what TWDS&S did.
I could never accept One to One after playing physics based games. I'm curious if I'll say the same about "physics" based games in 5-10 years when there's some sort of IRL resistance in controllers, or something... Also, legend has it that if you unsubscribe, a puppy kills you.
Great video! I knew all of these games but it was interesting to see the way they tackled melee combat and how each solution looks compared to each other. Informative, concise, good footage, high production value. Good video!
Hellsplit Arena has some phenomenal physics based melee. The enemies are really dumb but they can roll and have armor that adds an extra bit of challenge. The swords feel great and honestly, feel more rewarding than blade and sorcery. They don’t get stuck as often but still require you to swing accurately and with some weight behind the swing. I think the developers actually got some swords to play around with in real life so they could get the feeling right and I think they nailed it
always thought having kind of a "light up" system so that the weapon glows brighter when your controller is mimicing the position of where it "should be" based on the physics would be cool. the hotter you're lit up, the better the strike. and if your hand/controller doesn't stop where it should, you get penalized with either a botched block or less damage... so you're kind of encouraged to "role play" the mass of the weapon (that's what she said).
gotta wonder how it would be if they did implement weight for polearm and 2 handed weapons more efficiently though. i know firsthand angles go wonky when you go for fast swings between the battle axe and the greatsword because the angles always want to roll on you.
imo blade and sorcery is on another level compared to every other game shown here, except maybe boneworks. The advancement in physics combat can not be overstated
Furosukki フロスッキ Nah virtual reality graphics isn’t as good as normal games because the games have to be rendered twice (once per eye) and a high resolution at minimum of 1080p each at least (but i think all headsets now are 2k per eye at least) and around 90fps to not get motion sick. All of that can’t easly go with high graphics but since the vr got popular (around 2016 till now) the graphics are much much improved than 4 years ago and that’s honestly amazing. Anyway, vr will take a few years until it become common to have very detailed graphics like normal games
I'm seriously considering creating a VR hardware piece that would make a whole lot of difference for melee and overall physical interaction, I just need enough time in my college schedule to start developing it. The main hurdles I have is finding a way to set up resistance and possible forced change of position with a suspended tracking Exo-skeleton. I need some sort of electric motor or servo set up that has an almost compressible or overcome-able output torque something that has just enough strength to make a solid sense of ground if you fall and catch yourself in the virtual world. another thing would be figuring out how to suspend this skeleton so that the orientation can be controlled to match with the gravity in the virtual.
Many people say this on many youtube channels. this is my first time saying it. Sir, you deserve millions of subscribers and your current subscriber count is a criminal. these videos are of amazingly high quality. thank you.
VR mechanics are an extension of motion controller mechanics. In some ways that's stating the obvious, since you know. VR controllers ARE motion controllers (in the early days of Oculus before any dedicated controllers were designed we were using the Razer Hydra, which was originally sold as the PC's answer to Wii remotes) But speaking of the Wii we can also see the beginnings of VR gameplay mechanics in a lot of the games that focused on motion controls. This became especially true when motionplus was introduced and the Wii went from effectively 2 axis tracking to something closer to proper 3 axis tracking (With a tiny bit of linear tracking possible as well) Compare Red Steel to Red Steel 2, and then consider VR sword and gunplay in that context... Or, try Wii Sports Resort. Particularly the archery. ... Remind you of anything? I mean, when you consider the tech this should surprise no-one. But even so, VR mechanics are in effect the descendants of motion control mechanics, only with much more fidelity...
The best solution for any type of games is to have Forced Feedback Exo-arm that will give you actual resistance. This will be costly until they can mass produce it and make game a lot more complicated. However, i do see this in the future if VR kicks off.
Take note how much slower your characters moves around on the ground in VR than compared to most melee first person games where the character you play more or less looks like their gliding around. This is what first person melee needs. A natural movement speed we generally don't see in action games that seem to be obligated to be fast paced. Survival horror is the only genre that gets this right.
I never see any of these videos mention VR Dungeon Knight, released about the same time as Karnage Kronicles but better. Procedural dungeons, traps, secrets and the like and recently pets.
You skipped Skyward Sword, one of the first games that ever had motion controlled melee and it worked really well. VR just followed that example and improved on it. I'm loving Blade & Sorcery! 😄
Another interesting aspect of VR melee is PvP multiplayer. The only game I know that managed to implement it in a fun way is Swords of Gurrah, where they solved the collision problem my having the blades of the weapons shatter on contact and later regrow on the handle. You should definitely check it out.
Saints And sinners for me Is the true benchmark. And Im currently putting together a full physics based Full body VR setup. I have just got to trying to mimic S&S head stabbing and its 85% done :) just a bit more work to do. Vid soon
Blade and sorcery might be the greatest VR game I had the privilege to play before I had to sell my VR headset because of financial issues. Oh boy, what I would give to be able to play that again...
Vader immortal allows you to do wiggle attacks, but it does almost NO damage, and it leaves you open for more attacks from droids. Short swings will do a little more damage, but leave yourself room to block. Big swings can take out a lot of enemies very fast, but require good blocking skills and timing. In short, wiggling doesnt fucking work, and big jedi-like swings work best.
The thing with VR melee is that it can be incredibly fun with a one handed weapon but the second you pick up a two handed weapon it feels just weird. It doesn't feel right to swing.
I'd love a Sword Art Online game (as much as I disliked the anime itself), but I feel like you need more precise movement in-game than what's possible with current VR in order for the game to be that 'competitive'. Also, Though I haven't played any SAO games myself, considering Bandai Namco has the rights to make Sword Art Online games, they uh, they wouldn't try very hard to make a good game, let alone the effort to make a VR game, since people will buy a game that has the branding of their favorite anime, whether or not it's an actually good game. And they've proven that they know that very well and avoid making games that go above and beyond.
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds I'm not talking about tracking, more the use of movement in-game. VR systems now use touchpads and and joysticks to move your character around, which isn't inherently bad, since it works for games now, but for a game simulating SAO, it just wouldn't cut it. For one, it gets used far less, since it's not nearly as precise as taking steps in real life, and you need to take away attention from whatever you may be doing on your controller to make an active effort to move. Games also avoid sprint mechanics and generally moving quickly in smooth locomotion to avoid motion sickness. Secondly, a simple joystick or touchpad isn't enough to cover everything you'd need to utilize to get combat feeling right in an SAO game, which would include quick, short movements like side stepping, all the different uses and directions of a jump, and long, fast movements like building up to a sprint and running in general (using joysticks makes it too easy to attack while running), etc. I'm not gonna say that doing all of that with joysticks is impossible, but it would be extremely hard to implement into a game while also not making it completely overwhelming. You need to be focusing on your swordsmanship, after all. I think it would just be better to wait a while for locomotion technology to kick off some more, possibly with more widespread use of omni-directional treadmills, or something completely different. Note: I say that a game trying to simulate the SAO experience needs to be that precise and well-oiled in its combat system to be as close to real life as possible is because looking at SAO as an actual game objectively, the only thing that makes it interesting is that you can basically live out a second life in Aincrad, it's extremely immersive, it's permadeath, and most importantly, the combat is ACTUAL (anime) swordfighting, yet all of those would be held back by the fact that current VR is way less immersive than NerveGear, the stakes are MUCH lower since nobody's actually dying, and some admittedly shitty game design. If the combat is lacking, and you feel like you're doing poorly because the controls are clunky, the game would be really boring.
@@pluviarium It's possible now it's just a matter of the devs implementing movement controls properly and the user actually understanding how to use them. A lot of "this game controls weird" stuff is more the fault of the user needing to fix the software between their ears instead of the dev "fixing" the game. Long distance traversal: Joysticks (you tend to walk a bit IRL when you do that in large scale games like Skyrim because it makes things more comfortable) Short distance high speed movement: Armswinger (pioneered in H3VR, it's one of the better ways to sprint at high speed without getting sick) Close quarters combat maneuvering: You move your ass IRL. Learn to fight. If you're playing a game like Blade and Sorcery correctly, you're not static. You're moving around your space constantly. You're not just swinging your sword, you're throwing punches (with or without your shield), shoving guys, grabbing dudes, you're fighting. Same thing with Pavlov's VR zombie mode where throwing a punch with your support hand can give you the space you need to reload and get your gun back in the fight. "The combat's clunky" might be a case of "the user is clunky" instead. Take @8:38 for example: of course he isn't going to cut that guy, his edge alignment is horrible. You wouldn't cut someone IRL like that.
@@poisonouslead85 Fuck it, you're right. But the reason I say that the movement is often clunky in games is because I haven't seen a whole lot of games that use it very well, aside from Boneworks, which is a somewhat different case because it's not focused solely on melee combat. The Blade & Sorcery gameplay definitely proved otherwise, it seems I've mostly seen people not being very good at the game. The games I have put quite a bit of time into is OrbusVR and Until You Fall, which both have pretty bad uses of movement mid-combat: Orbus actively slows you down to the point of movement being useless if you're engaged by an enemy so you can't easily run from a fight, since there's nothing else the enemy can to stop you from doing so, and moving without dashing in the middle of fighting in Until You Fall puts you solely at a disadvantage, as it gets harder and harder to parry, while the enemy can still hit you, despite getting away. And although you're right about locomotion being basically a solved issue for making an SAO game, there are some things holding it back from happening, that I mostly didn't mention at all before: -The game's about 1-2 years old now, but I was always under the impression that the most you can do now with a VR MMO was OrbusVR, as in it works, and it's living proof that a VR MMO can exist and can be both more immersive and benefit from being in VR, but going backwards in a lot of ways like combat complexity and graphics due to it being a new market and the constraints of VR being relatively new. going from OrbusVR to Blade & Sorcery would be a pretty big jump for a massively multiplayer game in my eyes. -The structure of SAO in the anime conflicts somewhat with being possible IRL, and being good. If you haven't watched the anime (no, I would not recommend it) it's very heavily focused on the stats of your character and weapons, in that if there's a level gap, a ton of skill required goes away right away, and stats like strength and dexterity complicate things, for example, strength allows you to carry MUCH heavier swords easily, which could potentially overall ruin sword fighting, since you can't really parry a longsword that weighs as much as the castle you're fighting in. Not to mention, the game seems to be very player-focused, and lots of jobs like Blacksmith and Shopkeep need to be carried out by players. VR is thankfully getting a much better view in the eyes of the masses, but I'm not sure if the game would be able to support a fully player-based economy/world especially since, you know, you can log out, unlike the anime. I was thinking about it, but I'm not even gonna get started on the plotholes. -I was gonna say that melee combat would still be weird since you probably wouldn't be able to knock people around like you can in Blade & Sorcery and Boneworks, but ffs, SAO already has an unintentional solution for that ... -Bandai... Bandai Namco still wouldn't make a game that raises the bar that high, it's "not their job" and they know that, if that makes sense. Their goal is to make games that are at least serviceable to the fans of the IPs they have the rights to, and they've been doing that for years; constant arena fighters, story retellings, etc. I'm sure they've tried more than once to be more than that, for example One Piece World Seeker tried to be what people would want out of a game based on One Piece, which is open world, but as you'd expect, it didn't go too well since it seems it takes a lot to live up to big titles like One Piece, which is more than what they could/wanted to offer. Then again, it doesn't really have to be SAO-themed in the first place, because people hate SAO. Besides, everyone already knows that a VR MMO is something basically everyone wants, and I can tell Orbus already took a bit of inspiration from SAO. You know what? Reading this back I'm just wrong. I'll take my losses and leave.
I think blade and sorcery did the VR body best much like saints and sinners only your hands are physics based. That way you won’t be clumsy knocking everything over like in boneworks. Hell-split arena is also great like blade and sorcery except the body HSA is more stable.
Problem with Melee is lack of feed back when you hit the target. Guns are fine. You shoot and get a vibration to simulate recoil. Not the best but it does the trick. Melee, hard to feel the weight of the target your hitting.
HELL SPLIT ARENA is really good in a lot of ways it makes it feel better than blade and sorcery and sometimes when I'm playing blade and sorcery I think to myself, wow hell split arena does this better and I end up playing that instead, sure the game crashes every once in a while but! it's worth it the combat is smooth and buttery it delays your swings according to what weapon you use, mace, axe, sword, and if you are using heavier armor or lighter armor, or even what shield you are using, in the game you fight zombies and that makes me a little sad because I would have perferred fighting something a little more... living however sometimes that aspect aides in the combat needing to use heavier weapons like the mace vs skeleton so you can kill them easier with a quick bash to the skull to break it instead of needing to slash at then a million times to break the skull. the campain was a little short at around 3-4 hours but there is a training mode where you can play the game endless times!
Never tried a Vive cosmos... But being that I've owned two swords in my life, I rather doubt that. ;p I mean, I've got a tanto (short sword) which only has a 30 cm/1 foot blade, and that thing is so unbelievably heavy... If you've never held one, the only thing I can compare it to is holding a cast-iron frying pan, or maybe a large wok. Swords are NOT light objects. XD
@@KuraIthys I've tried holding this kind of sword, my grandfather has a collection of them, they are beautiful. About the Vive cosmos thing, I was joking
Hey, I like your videos and, relating to this video, I was hoping to ask a question. :) - Do you know of any VR games that are practical or good for teaching real life Melee skills? I'm new to VR with a Quest 2 and have been looking all over for games that can teach or train real-life skills (any skills) but there doesn't appear to be many. Maybe this could even be a good idea for future video? :) ... I've looked through Steam and Installed some from Sidequest but haven't found much quality. I would love a boxing game that could teach realistic combat but all the training modes involve just hitting a heavy bag, speed bag or double end ball .... not blocking/countering/etc. It seems like a sword fight could/should be one of the easiest real-life fighting things (other than shooting) to learn/teach/do. Have you heard of anything that teaches sword fighting? Katana, Kendo, Fencing, etc.? ... or any word of future games you've heard of that might have potential? Thanks for the videos! :D
Interesting question. I cant think of any games that really try to teach you techniques. I remember seeing an app for quest that uses finger tracking to help you learn the piano.
I still think vanishing realms has the best system. After getting hit the enemies actually have I-frames preventing them from taking damage. This prevents waggle and exploiting mechanics.
I wish we could have a Full RPG with blade and sorcery mechanics
Sayo Manzini thats what baron is pushing for
Apparently that’s gonna happen in u9 or u10 it says on the road map
@@zachattack1494 sorry what? What's that and how long do I have to wait for it?
@@cwill6491 probably at the start of 2021 or end of december
@@cwill6491 Just look at the discord and you can see it its going to be sick
There’s a game called Swords Of Gurrah that released into Early access about 4 months ago. It’s a completely multiplayer melle combat game that it’s got this unique feature where blades will break and shatter on impact of each other you can parry by hitting the closer to the hilt of a weapon and they have a huge arrangement of weapons if you get hit your sword barracks yet the game doesn’t feel like a constant trading game. The devs and someone in the discord actually started a tournament starting on the 15th and it’s prize pool has just surpassed $1000 dollars!
There’s not a lot of content in the game besides player vs player type game modes or fighting bulls and AI drones that shoot kunais at you but the devs on their discord (Devster) plan to add a whole
Bunch. Of content katanas crossbows dragons hybrid weapon fighting styles and many new maps and game modes.
The game certainly needs polish but it’s community and the fun I’ve had in it is like nothing I’ve seen before. Honestly it’s like Ironlights but 100 times better.
I heavily agree yeah this channel is one of the houses on the discord one of 8 and the games community is really welcoming and the dev really cares about the game playing it early every night and evening while the community feels big the player base is much smaller than most yet all you neeed is 1 lobby to have hours of fun and sweat your balls off.
I will add that damage in the game is calculated by how fast and far your blade or blades have traveled with damage caps on each weapons and a lot of balancing to do.
I will also add that your hands do have a bit of physics inside of them with a speed cap on your body (you have a full body) it’s not noticeable but it really helps with making everything feel smoother
I wonder how swords hitting each other would work in multiplayer tho, it's not like the controllers can mimic the movement of the sword bouncing back and stuff, but that'd work better in a single player I suppose
@@furosukki1301 yeah the swords braking stops from all the janky physics like if boneworks or blade and sorcery were multiplayer. as fun as it would be the physics just don't work with other people in the same virtual world. that's why the weapons shattering and reforming forks so well in Gurrah.
I don't think you can ever get it truly realistic without proper force feedback that can block your movements.
But I've always wondered if we can compromise in a way that's more... Gamey.
We expect VR to be like reality on some level, but at the same time we accept many of the absurd abstractions of traditional gaming.
My first inclination for dealing with the mismatch is... Ghosting.
By which I mean, you have a virtual body that obeys physics, but also a ghost body that obeys your real movements.
Every time there's a mismatch, your ghost body is basically yanked out of the simulated physical body, and you can see both. (other players don't need to see YOUR ghost body)
You can then use this for various reasons, such as ensuring you can't simply... Swing through someone's guard, and also asking players to move back to the position the physics dictates, or penalise them for it somehow. (like, say, you can't block properly for long if your position doesn't line up.)
This also allows us to dictate physical results of weapon clashes based on RPG style character stats, not just the physical movements the players are capable of.
No idea if this would work, but it would be something.
Of course, it does break realism, but we have to accept that VR tech simply isn't good enough yet to simulate reality with full consistency, so, as we did with traditional games, we have to accept some level of abstraction and mechanical contrivances...
This sounds like bad ironlights
I really like Until You Fall. The sound design, outstanding graphics, and music go a long way to adding arcade fun to melee combat, even when the combat itself is not realistic. Those huge giants are very intimidating when they're swinging their hammers down on you.
Definitely one of my favorite VR games. It's just insanely fun
i just got my Rift S yesterday..holy F*&*
it's the best thing i've bought in ages
welcome to the matrix :)
That's awesome! I got mine a month ago and havent put it down since.
I hope this technology will evolve rapidly and therefore make gaming as realistic as possible.
i was craving some VR content on youtube today. this vid was just what i needed.
Not specifically talking of the combat, but of the VR body: the solution the game Saints & Sinners went with, is for me, the best.
Visible arms that go direclty to your head and that fade away if you look down under your arms. It's just the perfect solution. It's not an hassle to deal with your virtual body like in boneworks and its the most imersive as we don't have floating hands.
Even more, the way the way they handled the inventory was better than everything else that came before.
Every game dev should take notes on what was done in Saints & Sinners
For me every VR game should follow what TWDS&S did.
Absolutely!
I could never accept One to One after playing physics based games. I'm curious if I'll say the same about "physics" based games in 5-10 years when there's some sort of IRL resistance in controllers, or something... Also, legend has it that if you unsubscribe, a puppy kills you.
Those puppies are vicious bastards
i only got my Rift S a week ago and this channel has been so good in helping me decide what games to get, thank you for your videos!
Great video! I knew all of these games but it was interesting to see the way they tackled melee combat and how each solution looks compared to each other.
Informative, concise, good footage, high production value. Good video!
Hellsplit Arena has some phenomenal physics based melee. The enemies are really dumb but they can roll and have armor that adds an extra bit of challenge. The swords feel great and honestly, feel more rewarding than blade and sorcery. They don’t get stuck as often but still require you to swing accurately and with some weight behind the swing. I think the developers actually got some swords to play around with in real life so they could get the feeling right and I think they nailed it
always thought having kind of a "light up" system so that the weapon glows brighter when your controller is mimicing the position of where it "should be" based on the physics would be cool. the hotter you're lit up, the better the strike. and if your hand/controller doesn't stop where it should, you get penalized with either a botched block or less damage... so you're kind of encouraged to "role play" the mass of the weapon (that's what she said).
That ending was the best possible way to promote a subscription.
Swords of Gurrah has a great melee system
gotta wonder how it would be if they did implement weight for polearm and 2 handed weapons more efficiently though. i know firsthand angles go wonky when you go for fast swings between the battle axe and the greatsword because the angles always want to roll on you.
THANK YOU for mentioning Gorn! I know it’s far from being a realistic VR game, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s fun as sin!
imo blade and sorcery is on another level compared to every other game shown here, except maybe boneworks. The advancement in physics combat can not be overstated
And even my 10th gen cpu with rtx can only run it at 40 fps
@@richterman3962 really? i have like i5- 8400 and 1060 and I get around 50 - 60 fps
doesn't virtual reality basically changes everything
Graphics? (That's all I could think of)
Furosukki フロスッキ
Nah virtual reality graphics isn’t as good as normal games because the games have to be rendered twice (once per eye) and a high resolution at minimum of 1080p each at least (but i think all headsets now are 2k per eye at least) and around 90fps to not get motion sick. All of that can’t easly go with high graphics but since the vr got popular (around 2016 till now) the graphics are much much improved than 4 years ago and that’s honestly amazing. Anyway, vr will take a few years until it become common to have very detailed graphics like normal games
@@furosukki1301 the fucking immersion
U forgot about iron lights with how the blade disappears in combat when u strike and the slow motion aspect
Dude, I love your channel. You creating amazing content. I wish I would've found it sooner. Can't wait to see all your videos. Keep up the good work.
I'm seriously considering creating a VR hardware piece that would make a whole lot of difference for melee and overall physical interaction, I just need enough time in my college schedule to start developing it. The main hurdles I have is finding a way to set up resistance and possible forced change of position with a suspended tracking Exo-skeleton. I need some sort of electric motor or servo set up that has an almost compressible or overcome-able output torque something that has just enough strength to make a solid sense of ground if you fall and catch yourself in the virtual world. another thing would be figuring out how to suspend this skeleton so that the orientation can be controlled to match with the gravity in the virtual.
Fantastic so far, not gonna pretend it's over yet I'm not a knob, but always appreciate your perspectives on these games/issues in design.
I really like your VR videos. Thanks for this one
Another great video. I genuinely lolled at :9:53 Well played sir :)
I love your videos so much, they’re super informative!!!
Thank you so much!!
Many people say this on many youtube channels. this is my first time saying it. Sir, you deserve millions of subscribers and your current subscriber count is a criminal. these videos are of amazingly high quality. thank you.
VR mechanics are an extension of motion controller mechanics.
In some ways that's stating the obvious, since you know. VR controllers ARE motion controllers (in the early days of Oculus before any dedicated controllers were designed we were using the Razer Hydra, which was originally sold as the PC's answer to Wii remotes)
But speaking of the Wii we can also see the beginnings of VR gameplay mechanics in a lot of the games that focused on motion controls.
This became especially true when motionplus was introduced and the Wii went from effectively 2 axis tracking to something closer to proper 3 axis tracking (With a tiny bit of linear tracking possible as well)
Compare Red Steel to Red Steel 2, and then consider VR sword and gunplay in that context...
Or, try Wii Sports Resort.
Particularly the archery.
... Remind you of anything?
I mean, when you consider the tech this should surprise no-one.
But even so, VR mechanics are in effect the descendants of motion control mechanics, only with much more fidelity...
now this is some quality content, keep
making this kind of stuff you’re gonna hit 100k subscribers 🔥
The best solution for any type of games is to have Forced Feedback Exo-arm that will give you actual resistance. This will be costly until they can mass produce it and make game a lot more complicated. However, i do see this in the future if VR kicks off.
Take note how much slower your characters moves around on the ground in VR than compared to most melee first person games where the character you play more or less looks like their gliding around.
This is what first person melee needs. A natural movement speed we generally don't see in action games that seem to be obligated to be fast paced. Survival horror is the only genre that gets this right.
I never see any of these videos mention VR Dungeon Knight, released about the same time as Karnage Kronicles but better. Procedural dungeons, traps, secrets and the like and recently pets.
Am I the only one that have seen this video 5 times and is still watching again
You skipped Skyward Sword, one of the first games that ever had motion controlled melee and it worked really well. VR just followed that example and improved on it. I'm loving Blade & Sorcery! 😄
Ironlights is a great sword fighting multiplayer game
Another interesting aspect of VR melee is PvP multiplayer. The only game I know that managed to implement it in a fun way is Swords of Gurrah, where they solved the collision problem my having the blades of the weapons shatter on contact and later regrow on the handle. You should definitely check it out.
Man I just love these videos, keep it up mate
Saints And sinners for me Is the true benchmark. And Im currently putting together a full physics based Full body VR setup. I have just got to trying to mimic S&S head stabbing and its 85% done :) just a bit more work to do. Vid soon
Blade and sorcery might be the greatest VR game I had the privilege to play before I had to sell my VR headset because of financial issues.
Oh boy, what I would give to be able to play that again...
I haven't got VR but I do plan on it. This video is very informative so thank you c:
Vader immortal allows you to do wiggle attacks, but it does almost NO damage, and it leaves you open for more attacks from droids. Short swings will do a little more damage, but leave yourself room to block. Big swings can take out a lot of enemies very fast, but require good blocking skills and timing.
In short, wiggling doesnt fucking work, and big jedi-like swings work best.
That ending bruv😂😂😂
I am so glad I watched the video till the end. :))))))
Amazing breakdown as ever 👌 perfectly describes my feelings regarding Melee in VR
Legendary tales is a good one too it's like blades and sorcery but with multiplayer and a good leveling system.
The thing with VR melee is that it can be incredibly fun with a one handed weapon but the second you pick up a two handed weapon it feels just weird. It doesn't feel right to swing.
WE NEED SWORD ART ONLINE WITH THIS MEELE COMBAT SYSTEM
I'd love a Sword Art Online game (as much as I disliked the anime itself), but I feel like you need more precise movement in-game than what's possible with current VR in order for the game to be that 'competitive'. Also, Though I haven't played any SAO games myself, considering Bandai Namco has the rights to make Sword Art Online games, they uh, they wouldn't try very hard to make a good game, let alone the effort to make a VR game, since people will buy a game that has the branding of their favorite anime, whether or not it's an actually good game. And they've proven that they know that very well and avoid making games that go above and beyond.
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds I'm not talking about tracking, more the use of movement in-game. VR systems now use touchpads and and joysticks to move your character around, which isn't inherently bad, since it works for games now, but for a game simulating SAO, it just wouldn't cut it. For one, it gets used far less, since it's not nearly as precise as taking steps in real life, and you need to take away attention from whatever you may be doing on your controller to make an active effort to move. Games also avoid sprint mechanics and generally moving quickly in smooth locomotion to avoid motion sickness. Secondly, a simple joystick or touchpad isn't enough to cover everything you'd need to utilize to get combat feeling right in an SAO game, which would include quick, short movements like side stepping, all the different uses and directions of a jump, and long, fast movements like building up to a sprint and running in general (using joysticks makes it too easy to attack while running), etc.
I'm not gonna say that doing all of that with joysticks is impossible, but it would be extremely hard to implement into a game while also not making it completely overwhelming. You need to be focusing on your swordsmanship, after all. I think it would just be better to wait a while for locomotion technology to kick off some more, possibly with more widespread use of omni-directional treadmills, or something completely different.
Note: I say that a game trying to simulate the SAO experience needs to be that precise and well-oiled in its combat system to be as close to real life as possible is because looking at SAO as an actual game objectively, the only thing that makes it interesting is that you can basically live out a second life in Aincrad, it's extremely immersive, it's permadeath, and most importantly, the combat is ACTUAL (anime) swordfighting, yet all of those would be held back by the fact that current VR is way less immersive than NerveGear, the stakes are MUCH lower since nobody's actually dying, and some admittedly shitty game design. If the combat is lacking, and you feel like you're doing poorly because the controls are clunky, the game would be really boring.
@@pluviarium It's possible now it's just a matter of the devs implementing movement controls properly and the user actually understanding how to use them. A lot of "this game controls weird" stuff is more the fault of the user needing to fix the software between their ears instead of the dev "fixing" the game.
Long distance traversal: Joysticks (you tend to walk a bit IRL when you do that in large scale games like Skyrim because it makes things more comfortable)
Short distance high speed movement: Armswinger (pioneered in H3VR, it's one of the better ways to sprint at high speed without getting sick)
Close quarters combat maneuvering: You move your ass IRL. Learn to fight.
If you're playing a game like Blade and Sorcery correctly, you're not static. You're moving around your space constantly. You're not just swinging your sword, you're throwing punches (with or without your shield), shoving guys, grabbing dudes, you're fighting.
Same thing with Pavlov's VR zombie mode where throwing a punch with your support hand can give you the space you need to reload and get your gun back in the fight.
"The combat's clunky" might be a case of "the user is clunky" instead. Take @8:38 for example: of course he isn't going to cut that guy, his edge alignment is horrible. You wouldn't cut someone IRL like that.
@@pluviarium Here's an example of a Blade and Sorcery at it's finest:
ua-cam.com/video/EdAOnz2QYxQ/v-deo.html
@@poisonouslead85 Fuck it, you're right. But the reason I say that the movement is often clunky in games is because I haven't seen a whole lot of games that use it very well, aside from Boneworks, which is a somewhat different case because it's not focused solely on melee combat. The Blade & Sorcery gameplay definitely proved otherwise, it seems I've mostly seen people not being very good at the game. The games I have put quite a bit of time into is OrbusVR and Until You Fall, which both have pretty bad uses of movement mid-combat: Orbus actively slows you down to the point of movement being useless if you're engaged by an enemy so you can't easily run from a fight, since there's nothing else the enemy can to stop you from doing so, and moving without dashing in the middle of fighting in Until You Fall puts you solely at a disadvantage, as it gets harder and harder to parry, while the enemy can still hit you, despite getting away.
And although you're right about locomotion being basically a solved issue for making an SAO game, there are some things holding it back from happening, that I mostly didn't mention at all before:
-The game's about 1-2 years old now, but I was always under the impression that the most you can do now with a VR MMO was OrbusVR, as in it works, and it's living proof that a VR MMO can exist and can be both more immersive and benefit from being in VR, but going backwards in a lot of ways like combat complexity and graphics due to it being a new market and the constraints of VR being relatively new. going from OrbusVR to Blade & Sorcery would be a pretty big jump for a massively multiplayer game in my eyes.
-The structure of SAO in the anime conflicts somewhat with being possible IRL, and being good. If you haven't watched the anime (no, I would not recommend it) it's very heavily focused on the stats of your character and weapons, in that if there's a level gap, a ton of skill required goes away right away, and stats like strength and dexterity complicate things, for example, strength allows you to carry MUCH heavier swords easily, which could potentially overall ruin sword fighting, since you can't really parry a longsword that weighs as much as the castle you're fighting in. Not to mention, the game seems to be very player-focused, and lots of jobs like Blacksmith and Shopkeep need to be carried out by players. VR is thankfully getting a much better view in the eyes of the masses, but I'm not sure if the game would be able to support a fully player-based economy/world especially since, you know, you can log out, unlike the anime. I was thinking about it, but I'm not even gonna get started on the plotholes.
-I was gonna say that melee combat would still be weird since you probably wouldn't be able to knock people around like you can in Blade & Sorcery and Boneworks, but ffs, SAO already has an unintentional solution for that ...
-Bandai... Bandai Namco still wouldn't make a game that raises the bar that high, it's "not their job" and they know that, if that makes sense. Their goal is to make games that are at least serviceable to the fans of the IPs they have the rights to, and they've been doing that for years; constant arena fighters, story retellings, etc. I'm sure they've tried more than once to be more than that, for example One Piece World Seeker tried to be what people would want out of a game based on One Piece, which is open world, but as you'd expect, it didn't go too well since it seems it takes a lot to live up to big titles like One Piece, which is more than what they could/wanted to offer. Then again, it doesn't really have to be SAO-themed in the first place, because people hate SAO. Besides, everyone already knows that a VR MMO is something basically everyone wants, and I can tell Orbus already took a bit of inspiration from SAO.
You know what? Reading this back I'm just wrong. I'll take my losses and leave.
Perfect end
I love the Eternal Youth playing in the background (By Rude)
No idea why the God of War theme is in the video, but I love it either way!
Its kinda of crazy that nobody tried not having the arm one-to-one before
I think blade and sorcery did the VR body best much like saints and sinners only your hands are physics based. That way you won’t be clumsy knocking everything over like in boneworks. Hell-split arena is also great like blade and sorcery except the body HSA is more stable.
Yoooo the Mirror Edge music!!!!
If you like Blade & Sorcery you should check out Tales of Glory. Fits perfectly to this list
Problem with Melee is lack of feed back when you hit the target. Guns are fine. You shoot and get a vibration to simulate recoil. Not the best but it does the trick. Melee, hard to feel the weight of the target your hitting.
HELL SPLIT ARENA is really good in a lot of ways it makes it feel better than blade and sorcery and sometimes when I'm playing blade and sorcery I think to myself, wow hell split arena does this better and I end up playing that instead, sure the game crashes every once in a while but! it's worth it the combat is smooth and buttery it delays your swings according to what weapon you use, mace, axe, sword, and if you are using heavier armor or lighter armor, or even what shield you are using, in the game you fight zombies and that makes me a little sad because I would have perferred fighting something a little more... living however sometimes that aspect aides in the combat needing to use heavier weapons like the mace vs skeleton so you can kill them easier with a quick bash to the skull to break it instead of needing to slash at then a million times to break the skull. the campain was a little short at around 3-4 hours but there is a training mode where you can play the game endless times!
Oh my god the moment i heard mirror's edge ost i intantly liked the video
9:16 damn you look short next to those walkers lol
Yeah I had some wierd issues with my height in the game when I recorded.
0:39 I own a vive cosmos, holding the controller actually feels like holding the heaviest sword lol
100% immersion
Never tried a Vive cosmos...
But being that I've owned two swords in my life, I rather doubt that. ;p
I mean, I've got a tanto (short sword) which only has a 30 cm/1 foot blade, and that thing is so unbelievably heavy...
If you've never held one, the only thing I can compare it to is holding a cast-iron frying pan, or maybe a large wok.
Swords are NOT light objects. XD
@@KuraIthys I've tried holding this kind of sword, my grandfather has a collection of them, they are beautiful. About the Vive cosmos thing, I was joking
Cool analysis
Hey, I like your videos and, relating to this video, I was hoping to ask a question. :) - Do you know of any VR games that are practical or good for teaching real life Melee skills? I'm new to VR with a Quest 2 and have been looking all over for games that can teach or train real-life skills (any skills) but there doesn't appear to be many. Maybe this could even be a good idea for future video? :) ... I've looked through Steam and Installed some from Sidequest but haven't found much quality. I would love a boxing game that could teach realistic combat but all the training modes involve just hitting a heavy bag, speed bag or double end ball .... not blocking/countering/etc. It seems like a sword fight could/should be one of the easiest real-life fighting things (other than shooting) to learn/teach/do. Have you heard of anything that teaches sword fighting? Katana, Kendo, Fencing, etc.? ... or any word of future games you've heard of that might have potential? Thanks for the videos! :D
Interesting question. I cant think of any games that really try to teach you techniques. I remember seeing an app for quest that uses finger tracking to help you learn the piano.
What was the WWII game at the end?
You missed hellsplit the physics are really good you can stab enemies between the armor
I still think vanishing realms has the best system. After getting hit the enemies actually have I-frames preventing them from taking damage. This prevents waggle and exploiting mechanics.
Thank you.
Oh god I wish blades and sorcery was on quest
Did I mention that there's a tank that rolls by
Wait is that a tank at 9:53?!
Great Video! Keep up the good work!
No mention of swords of gurrah? it has multiplayer pvp melee combat.
Hey The World Seed Project ans Aleph is being revived the new Project Manager is named SpartanMantis
great video! :)
They should make another doom vr game but the glory kills are manual instead of automatic
Do VR Controllers have Vibrating motors inside them?
You forgot Hell Split Arena 😱😱😱!!!!
IMO Blade & Sorcery is the best VR melee game out there
DONT KILL THE PUPPY, I BEG YOU!
this is why metal gear rising vr
You missed swords of gurah it's a vr mele dueling game that's multiplayer
Anyone else hear the Mirror’s Edge theme song in the background?
what about ironlights?
Did I mention that a tank rolled by?
If You wanna feel the heft of the weapon just get wrist weights
Ninja Legends ftw!!
Re7 is the best vr game I played.
What's the name of the last game with the Tiger?
Blunt Force. I made a video on it going into some details
is that mirrors edge music?
Song? 5:05
Song in 5 min?
He didn’t mention it but a tank rolled by
How is footwork done, or is that just ignored?
by moving your feet in real life, and using the joy stick to move
But have you seen the tank tho?
what game was that at the end?!
Blunt Force. I made a video covering it on the channel.
No mention of Swords of Gargantua? I'm disappointed
I wish Skyrim got any upgrades in the vr version but it's just a lazy port... An yet they still demand 60€
"On easy, you can kill them with ease" Where'd you get that conclusion?
noice
I wish walking dead was more freeroam and survival
So you work for Facebook? Since most games you reviewed are exclusive. 😜
I covered 13 games in this video, only 2 of them were Oculus exclusives and one of those is releasing on PSVR soon.
dualshock on the controllers would feel better...
Who would have known that on easy mode you can kill them with ease
The biggest problem is still AI and weight is still far away from reality even in game.