Stock Bottom End?... You May Be Wasting Your Money On Heads!
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
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ok kids ..enogh is enough cause im call number five btw ill take my stock fox anyday all i do is turn key...and turn up boom and go!!!!(when i can afford the gas)....but acutally not that bad on gas just im poor..
Very humbling video! Thank you! We sometimes forget that there is always going to be someone out there who is faster. Key here is to enjoy your build, have the peace of mind that you can just get in and drive anywhere reliably. Stay vibrant Brew2L
🙏✊
Think about it, there are a number of stock FWD cars that'll out run a stock Fox now, but they have 40+ years of development behind them. The Fox Mustang is one of the coolest cars ever, and nothing will change that. Enjoy them for what they are!
@@chuckp7970 yeah buddy 👊
U set a lot of us straight here an really liked how U mixed the shots of the cars into the video.
Good points. Needed to hear this.
Sage advice. Preserve and protect.
Man, I needed this video today.
Great advice as always ! The rabbit hole runs deep and it's very easy to lose sight of such things. 👍😎
Chills brut. I’ll stop waiting for help and put this damn transmission back in. With my left arm being paralyzed i often put limitations on myself, but I always find a way to overcome and adapt. This reminded me to give myself more credit and just go figure it out
Always loved the gt40 3bar heads and a BCam literally daily it and never have issues
Wise words. Having been in the game for nearly 30 years with tons of combos, I’ve grown to appreciate the simple builds. What’s the point of chasing HP with 2500+ hp GTR’s and such roaming the streets. With my ‘93 I went Dart 347, 185cc TW heads, custom Ed Curtis cam, Holley intake and a twin turbo setup run by a Megasquirt. It’s a great combo and the boost can be tailored from mild to wild… and quite frankly mild is all the fun I need any more!
Just out of curiosity what range of rwhp is that combination putting down and capable of?
Around 500 whp on 93 and low boost up to 750 whp on high octane and high boost. It’s an animal even on low boost. The turbos are relatively small so it’s a torque monster.
we all reach an age where we aren't looking to compete anymore, someone always has more money or has the time to attempt to run a race engine on the street and have a youtube channel pay to constantly replace seals and titanium valve spring retainers and such. plus those dyno queen engines often aren't making power below 3-4,000 rpm and a torquey pushrod 302 cruising at an RPM below that is going to surprise 'em (just like back in the day, guys with a 4.56:1 rear gear would own a stop light but be doing 55mph down the highway and get smoked by stock cars doing 80 mph past them). or maybe it will take one at a stoplight, when our Fox weighs under 3,000 lb and their new car full of computers and safety equipment is closer to 4,000 lb unless they bought a ton of carbon fibre body panels.
just cruisin' in an "old" classic is often fun enough.
I needed to here this brother.
Damn brew2L you are killing it with some of these talking videos. I love these and also talking about the old days great videos man. Also all 3 of your cars are so. So clean I would be so proud of all of them holly shit lol
I really enjoy the honesty in your videos. Very truthful real world knowledge you have. I can honestly say I over built my car and it’s not fun as it once was. I’m looking for another one now just to hop in a ride and keep my notch for certain occasions
Best thing I've heard. Just drive it. Stop trying to be the fastest just enjoy what you have!
Amen 🙏🏼 Got that right brother 👍🏼
Your words on cam are on point. I put a cam in my 95 GT 5.0 and while it was ok in traffic when i lived in Iowa, once i moved to Tennessee, it sucked esp in the mountains at lower speed
I don’t think it’s just the fox body but this is for all the 2V (new edge) community as well! Great wisdom
Well spoken brother...
Super wise words. I have a 1996 WS6 LT1 that I went over the top with the build - high level 388 with great heads, max Nitrous set up, completely build driveline etc. And I don't really "always" love the car. It's a handful and my neighbours hate it. Now I'm going down the rabbit hole of buying a clean 5.0 and building exactly what he suggested at the end - build a nice cruiser
I think that was very good advice, especially at the end. It reminded me why I really bought mine.
I really appreciate what you have to say. Overbuilding is so easy to get caught up in. Especially the vintage race car thing. It looks cool on paper, but they are not daily drivers.
Well said! You want to drive something that is practical, affordable and doesn't cause a headache each time you drive it or be a thief magnet. Yes, there are many cars out there that are faster and look better than yours, but they also cost more than $50K or even higher (and they are much harder to fix when they break down)!!
You are 100% right. It's very difficult to compete against modern technology
Great video brew2l I agree 100%.. the one thing that keeps me from over building is money lol.. all I need is to get my car a little more cosmetically looking better and I'm good..
Man I’ve been saying this since day 1. Once you go to far, its not enjoyable anymore. Great video!
SO SO true...GREAT words of wisdom here from BREW2L. I learned this the hard way years ago with my 67 Mustang. I applied those hard learned lessons to my foxbody and it has been so much more enjoyable. Remember, spend time on the whole car, not just under the hood.
Your absolutely right brotha...100% good vid keep it up!
I definitely agree with you. Gotta love the car and what it can do. We sometimes try to make them just like the new ones, big mistakes, two different car eras and platforms. Enjoy the car with some mods and go driving, I enjoy working on my fox more than my Shelby GT350.
Thanks!
Real talk for sure. I’ve had builds go wrong and ended up hating the car afterwards. The problem was never the car.
Right on! Been there!😎
This video is 100% on point...
THAT WAS DEEP!
really nice video good advice .
Some wise words right there my man. 👍
Thanks brother. You do give good advice.
Haha haha 😂!! 💯 agree with you. I’ve over built stuff in the past. Then hated it, because it was just to radical to enjoy driving. It was great at the track, but going to a cruise in was horrible.
This is my favorite video ive seen from you. Had a 347 notch, no AC, N61 cam. It was a beast and it was miserable to drive. My old bolt on 96 GT was one of the funnest cars I've owned. If and when I get another fox it'll be a bolt on only cruiser.
This is awesome advice! Also, this is something nobody ever talks about. Foxbodys are based on 45-ish y ear old engineering at heart, a lot of developments have happened in that time in engine management, suspension, materials, etc. Around 20 years ago I started to over-build my car to be more of a drag car than a street car. Well it never got finished and has sat in storage for 15-18 years now and its daunting thinking about what'll take to make it a decent street car again!
I agree I had so much fun many many moons ago with a 93 fox body. 410 gears, shorty headers 100 shot of nitrous with skinny on the front and 10.5 Mickey slicks on the back with a b-cam cold air intake and a tremec tko 3550. Oh and up graded valve springs. Car ran 7.80’s all night long till I spit an axle out. This was when I was a 20 something eating bologna all week to street race or race on Saturday night. I learned like many of you fellas build a car from the back to the front. Appreciate the channel bro you keep the fire lit in me to get back into my mustangs
Love the style of video! As always…..great content
Great little video! My '91 LX top and bottom ends are still virgins! Been contemplating wether to do H/C/I or 331/347 stroker. I'm in my late 40's and this video makes me think all I need is the H/C/I. If I could just get 300-350 to the wheels I'd be happy!
U spoke nothing but the truth. I started out building my car so I can keep up with my friends that’s pushing 600+ hp but I realize they wasn’t really enjoying their cars and always had issues. Another thing that hit me was I’m never going to the track and I refuse to mess up my CDL trying to prove my car is faster on the street.
Good Video Man!!
You hit on some really good points!!
great perspective :)
You nailed it brother ..I've been there . I built a triple blk conv back in the early 2000s and thought I'd be able to drive it everyday as my daily driver ..wasn't possible ..like you said remember why you fell in love with these cars in the first place ..today's cars are no joke when it comes to power and price ..but when you see a foxbody cruising around town the new cars just dont compare 👍
Thank you!........really solid advice.
Everything you said is so True. If I can get 300 rear wheel I’ll be happy
Best advice I've heard on any channel or from any guy for that matter...the spirit of these cars will be lost...that's fact man!! So many people need to hear this
🫡
This guy is spot on been building these cars since 1989.
You say it well and explan it well .I know all this stuff but fun to watch h others explaine it .keep up the good videos
Thanks brother. I appreciate you
You said it the best man. I bought my foxbody for the look and the sound. Which is why I am only doing a Vortech supercharger system with gears and I am good. My fox is for weekend cruises , shows and nostalgia. For speed bragging rights I have my eye on the new Z06 or the Huracan.
Great advice!
That’s great advice!!!
Heads, cam, & intake were, and still are IMO the best mods you can make and the king of those used to be the Holley Systemax kit which would net you around 350 horsepower.
These days I would still go for the best heads I could afford and build the rest of the engine to suit those heads. Stock Ford heads are just pathetic with exhaust ports that you can cover with your thumb. They choke the engine so much that almost any aluminum head will make substantial gains. BITD Hot Rod magazine ran an article where they put a set of AFR 165 heads on a stock 5.0 and netted a 100 horsepower gain with just the addition of the heads.
The heads in the holley kit were junk. Twisted wedge and AFR 165/185 far better choice but your overall point was correct. That overall concept wakes the car up yet you still fallshort when you are only putting 320 to the wheels and coyote cars are nearly 400 with power everywhere and superior driveability
@@brettfrimmer6567 Love the AFR heads. Another head that's very underrated and not talked about very much for these cars is the Edelbrock Performer and Performer RPM heads. A buddy of mine ran these on his SN95 with an E-cam and an untouched GT40 intake. This was right before the AFR heads came onto the market, so they weren't and option at the time. Despite his car being an SN95 and all the extra BS that came along with that car as opposed to a Fox, he still ran 12.50s @ 110 on drag radials with 3.73s. I was thoroughly impressed with those heads on his car. Unfortunately, the crank on his stock block exploded and those heads didn't survive the carnage.
Idk what you talking bout lol ported gt40s can make more power than sve 170 heads on a mild build it all about what you have to go with it and I’ve seen personally someone take gt40s and swap them for sve and be like wtf my car just got slower
@@user-bv4nd8lp8m, You evidently didn't pay attention to what I said and haven't researched much. Your statement about the SVE head swap is likely true, however, IF they only swapped the heads. To "fully" utilize the power of larger flowing heads you have to also swap the intake and camshaft to properly selected and sized components. It's all about the airflow.
Awesome advice. I recently bought a fox after a couple years of built turbo civic street cars and the reason I love my fox so much is I turn the key let it run for a second and go. Unlike my Honda where I gotta let it warm up for the forged pistons and make sure the thick oils thin enough to not blow out all my seals while driving. My civic still takes a dump on my fox as far as power to weight but the fox is definitely more enjoyable and reliable which means a lot to me.
As always this is great advice , I've had my 89 GT since it was new and all it has is a set of 3.73 gears,headers ,h pipe , Flowmasters ,and underdrive pulleys . When I get in and go for a drive ,I'm 16 years old again, I may not be the fastest in town ,but I am the coolest.
With the AC blowing lol
I was ready to be "That guy" in the comments. But you covered every caveat I was thinking when I read the title. 👍as always thanks for the video man.
Spot on with everything you said. His words come from experience. I’ve been down the exact road he described. Manage your expectations and have a plan of what you want the car to be and what way you plan to use it. Too big of a throttle body or cam or heads and you’re throwing away hp and drivability. Those take the fun away from these cars. A well tuned moderate build with the right parts will be more fun and more reliable and enjoyable to drive than going all out. Good video and explanations of everything
👍🏻
My 86 306/RPM headed/xcam/Performer 5.0 intake car actually runs damn near perfect on the street and it has yet to be tuned. About the only issue is it stall/lopes with the A/C on. With the A/C off though it never stalls or lopes. Have been lucky with it for sure.
Spittin the truth!
Well said!!👊🏻
Thank dad
👍😎 Good job Brew👍👍
I'll bet more than a few heard everything you said BUT didn't hear a thing you were saying.🤔🤔😎
I agree 100%. The key is to enjoy your car in stages and drive it! If you buy one and immediately tear it apart expecting a 1000 hp car as the end result and your budget is 3,000 dollars you will have a car on jackstands for 5 years and be like brew2l said, overwhelmed and hate the car because you cant finish it. Buy the car, drive it, enjoy it and as your budget grows your car can grow too.
I couldn't agree more. I've had my '91 5.0 ragtop for over 31 years and have made very few engine mods. Headers, 1.7 roller rockers, better valve springs, a GT40 tubular intake and larger throttle body. Stock heads and cam. For me, it runs and drives great. I value drive ability above everything else. In the summer months, it's my daily driver. I know there are all manner of faster cars out there. I don't care. I've loved my car since the day I bought it all those years ago. I've taken good care of it and it still looks new and it still turns heads. It's everything I want.
Wish I had bought a couple tubulars 25 yrs ago ... 😲
@@hotrodray6802 Yeah, no kidding. I don't know how many times I've been offered money for mine. No sale. I'm probably wasting it on my fairly stock engine setup, but it just looks so cool.
There's always going to be a guy out there with a faster car. You may as well build yours to be fun for YOU.
20 years ago, I went to one of our Friday evening "meet-ups" where guys would spend hours coming to a "deal" on a street race. This night, two guys showed up with a brand-new Super Duty with an open trailer hauling a nice 87/88 Notchback. Friendly guys but not your typical street racer types. Took a roll of cash out of his pocket and put it on the hood of the Mustang and said he was ready to race. (It was probably $10k.) Wouldn't open the hood. No one took him up on it. Lol.
Saw them the next day at the NMRA event running low-9's, when a "fast" street car was mid-10's. Turns out, they were a couple of Ford engineers that had some tricks up their sleeves. They never did lift the hood on the car. At least not while anybody was around.
There's ALWAYS going to be a guy out there with a faster car.
Dude a cam and Flowmaster. 🫵🏿
this is a great video, I used to love foxbodys and still do and would like to have one in the future, but your right as far as outrunning the new cars that come stock 400+whp. Thats why I went and got a new mustang. Just love the car for what it is and make it fun to drive to you and it'll be a good time.
Very well said! ✊
Thank you. It helped me.
Very well said
Great advice from someone who’s been down that road a few times 🙏 The point is to enjoy the build and the ride as your own, and if possible, pass knowledge and share experience with other enthusiasts. As far as the competitive stuff, it’s in our DNA brother, i’m almost 50 and i still test and get tested by random car people. Be responsible, yes, but don’t play with our toys because of new tech? Nah.
I'm going to finish my build soon this winter on my 91 vert, no heads cam or intake (for now), just 3.55 gears, aod street/strip valve body kit, 70mm TB, x-pipe, mass pro-meter, stock 19lb injectors, under drive pulleys, bumped timing to 12 and redid the suspension with Steeda springs, and Koni Orange struts. Just wanted a fun cruiser, I am not street racing this thing. It's nostalgic to drive and that's what makes it fun for me. Power is not the main goal, just having some fun driving and keeping it reliable to not worry about break downs. If I wanted something much faster a newer/better car would have been considered.
Excellent Video. This is what I’ve been telling people for years. It’s not how fast you go its how much fun you have while you’re going fast. Too much horsepower is just as bad as two little horsepower at least on the street and road courses.
I know someone who has a 427 cobra replica and he had a 400 hp small block in it and and drove it all the time loved it. Then he put a 625 hp 427 stroker in it and now he rarely drives it because it’s Squirrley, dangerous, especially when going around corners and accelerating plus it’s difficult to go through first second and third gear in the city. The car sits in his garage.
One of the dumbest things going out there is the more horsepower the better.
Well said.
Good advice
Is now a good time to invest in stocks? I know everyone says stocks are cheap, but how long will it take for us to recover? Obviously, there are strategies to be used in this market, but these strategies are not available to the average person, so am I better off putting my money elsewhere?
If the market has taught me anything, it's that it always recovers, but I can't seem to focus on the long run, when major factors like my retirement and my reserve are wreaking havoc on inflation. I require a solid data trajectory and solution as soon as possible.
Great video bro
Love this video! Really captures the essence of why we love our cars. Personally for me it is not about competing or being the fastest. It’s about having fun, but looking and sounding good while doing it! 💯👊🏾
So flowmasters and ecam and wrap it up?
And get absolutely smoked by ls cars, turbo imports, anything with a coyote, german stuff etc. fox bodies are just noisemaking cruisers now.
We are all entitled to our opinions and have a right to do what makes us happy without criticism from others. Can’t win all the races. I don’t drive a Foxbody to win races nor to be the loudest on the street. 💯👊🏾
@@ogsuperflygarage I agree. I was just agreeing because mine has stock heads and intake but has flowmasters and e cam. Sounds mean and drives nice. Love a nice highway cruise.
@@vtecbanger3180 Me too Brother! As for your earlier question… If I had to do it all over again… I would just do the Flowmasters and a alphabet cam… 😀
Ya done all this on several different foxes lol he speaks truth.
Ours is a 26k mile 88. I was happy taking the intake off and cleaning it out. It's amazing how all that gunk slowly kills performance.
Your absolutely correct, appreciate your car for what it is and stop trying to make it something that it is not. Be realistic in your goals.
Heads are always a welcome upgrade that will improve power and performance match accordingly
92 LX Hatch. FRPP Cobra intake unported, Edelbrock Performer 1.90 heads, Stock cam w/Crane 1.7 RR, Full exhaust. I've had the car for almost 30 years, nice street package that is fun to drive. I never needed to be king of the road.
Good stuff! The gt40P heads flow about like the 318 swirl port heads - great match up for the smaller cid engines. Money spent on handling, brakes, and amenities will make the car fun to drive.
I agree on what your opinion is about heads on a stock bottom end 302 or 351. I can look back on Muscle Mustangs magazines and look at all the testing with stock bottom short blocks 302's with good aluminum heads. I've seen results of 340 to 385 hp at the crank. Depending on what company and cam and induction setup to make that joker work. That's my friendly opinion for the fight.
You are. To a point. Your biggest bang for the buck for real power increases that are there all the time is a head cam intake package. IF you are ok with a 320 rwhp car! However a quality head cam intake setup is still thousands of dollars with all the supporting mods. Nowadays everyone wants 400 plus horsepower. Stock coyotes are dynoing like 380-390 to the tire with power everywhere and 7,000 rpm redlines. Superchargers the numbers START at 700 hp! I did a trickflow package on my 90 lx hatch, stock bottom end and it was a snappy little car but the reality is i was never really happy with it. 324 rwhp simply wasnt enough for the time and money i spent on my “cheap speed” fox body. You need a nice 331/347 bottom end heads cam intakes and a blower to make real power and why spent that on a car thats over 30 yrs old? 302 dont make any power! Inb4 “you just dont know how to build em”
Truth!
I don't think they sell it anymore, but I remember when you could buy the actual "Holley Systemax" system which is where the name came from. It was the Systemax heads, cam, and intake with gaskets. It came with hardware ready to bolt on for about $2,000. it was a perfectly matched combo for a 302. Bang for the buck doesn't even begin to describe it. It took all the work out of trying to piece together a combo for less money. It was hands down the best combo on the market for power and torque. Of course you had to have the basics first. Long tubes, Throttle body+Mass air and fuel pump with a good regulator first. Add a 150 shot of NITROUS!!! not NOS and good luck to your buddies trying to keep up. Yes even with 19lb injectors! Those days are gone and now everyone wants an On3 kit with a stock motor blowing through the stock golf ball sized Mass Air wondering why it doesn't feel like it's fast. It's all about the Combo People! Just my 2 cents from a guy who has been in it since Flowmasters were black and rusted all to hell!
the systemax was good from what i heard in the past but they just could not compete in the end with the twisted wedge top end kits and eddy RPM top end kits
that and a lot of people just buy the AFR 165s and the anderson N41 cam he mentioned. easy and it makes good usable power.
I have a bone stock 1985 GT 5spd that i am in a battle with myself over modifying. I am no stranger to these as I've had around 15-16 5.0 foxbodys in the last 28+ yrs. I always preferred just throwing a blower on a stock efi car to keep the driveability the same but add power. I went from 13.80@100 to 12.77@111 with nothing other than a Powerdyne of all things way back in the day. Stock gears too with a full stereo system in a 1993 GT. For comparison i ran 12.82@112 in my 2013 GT stock.
Great Great video feet on the ground head out of the clouds. Low expectations and if it gives you a little bit more than you thought than bonus. And yes you can daily these cars I did it for 12 years straight until I tore it down to rebuild ie 4to8 swap build.
Great Vid.
I recently just came to the same conclusion. I just want to drive, hear that exhaust, and maybe step on it a lil bit. I guess if I wanted to compete I'd just Coyote swap it and throw a supercharger on it.
Good Advice to the average builder, Ac, Jams and get it Cleaned up .... And RIDE ...
Real talk 👍
I agree on the head cam situation, I've read so many forms listings to guys telling others to buy lumpy Cam's and 205+ head's and you just don't need all that. I grabbed the smallest Dart block and a b41 Anderson and a set of 190 tricks and just spent some time machining the heads and opening them up a bit more, I have a low compression build with a 80mm snail and on meth and our fuel table is showing the motor to be around 1050hp . Also there's a lot of guys knocking the T5 trans, my clutch is now on its way out(ford performance stage 2 ) and starting to let go at 700whp and the car still drives awesome, I will be upgrading the trans and clutch set up down the rd to access the rest of the ponies in this thing but that T5 works like a champ and has Zero issues with 700rwhp . Don't be led down the wrong road fella's it doesn't take much to go fast.
I understand my fox is running great and the minute I think of opening up to toss in a cam something silly happens. Last was my belt getting shedded. Got a new harmonic balancer, new crank pulley, new belt and belt tensioner now I'm on the road again.... Until I think about that cam again... Oo damn please don't fail me foxy
Another great video! Most cars today may make more power, but weigh damn near 4k+ lbs. A well tuned Foxbody with all the right parts would give most cars of today a run for their money. It's all about doing your homework and picking the right parts. Bigger isn't always better, but most important enjoy/love your Mustang! Who cares if the next guy is faster chances are there's somebody twice as fast as him just around the block. JMO 🐺
You are right all I got is a 302 HCI gears t5 camaro SS ain’t got a prayer in hell of touching my 3036 lb coupe slaughtered several from a dig coyotes if they are fairly stock have a real hard time in an 1/8 or stop light to stop light a hard Hookin HCI fox is still very formidable on the street. I’ve proven it time and time again power ain’t everything light weight and traction decent power n a fox will get peoples attention.
Stock pistons,190cc(205 intake valves) TFS 11r heads,N41 cam,stock bottom end,this car rocks!!! Please dont go around knocking this setup,I can prove that it works really well!!!
But you can't type a sentence for shit.
Great video. I’m trying to decide what to do for a build for my 4 eye vert. Thinking about just getting the bottom end freshened up and putting a hydraulic roller cam in it with tie bar lifters and GT-40 heads. Not too sure yet though.
@@larryblackmon7105 it’s really just going to be a comfortable cruiser with enough power to be fun. Maybe later on add some power but it’s not ever going to be a coyote killer like he said that’s not my intentions with the car
This is a great video. I want a good performing daily daily driver that looks and sounds good. I want to build a 331 but I don't want a choppy cam that makes the car sound like its a spark away from stalling.
A/C no way, just roll that window down and listen to that pony purr!!
I used to in my younger days. But I’m too old and it’s too hot 😂
I just want a clean fox with ac and a N41 Anderson. All I’d ever need!
Back several years ago I bought an explorer 302 and sold the GT40p heads and intake (recouped investment). Bought Trick Flow top end kit and got over 100k miles and a glovebox full of 12.80 time slips. Looking back I wished I’d keep the GT40 heads and intake and bought a 327 stroker kit instead…. I’d spent less $ and gotten very similar results.