A buddy was just telling me he wants to upgrade the top end in his 93 mustang. I told him your channel has everything he could possibly want or need to select a great combination of parts. Keep up the good work.
Richard I'm 100% a CHEVY guy but I totally have to appreciate how awesome your work is. I mean talk about going above and beyond. Best "auto" channel on UA-cam hands down. Your dedication to the job is amazing.
I would love to see the same heads and same cam setups on the 351w short block just to compare how much you would actually gain with a "short block swap" I feel like a lot of guys would benefit from the knowledge of how much exactly you gain on the change in cubic inches alone all over the graph
Bascially, more power earlier, higher peak, and then the power would start dropping more a little sooner, if the 302 based engine couldnt work the head hard enough to show "choke."
I can tell you very accurate guess. You could count on around 450-460 ft/lbs and 415-425hp if a 351W short block with the same compression and camshaft were used. Hp would peak around 5500rpm
@Jackson P. Storm haha so true, almost lost it just typing that considering how much cash I dumped into mine to make it “durable” against anything other than “short term lease soccer mom throttle”
Richard, you're going to love to hear this ... I hope ! I live in NZ, and have a 2001 Ford Falcon AU XR8 5.0 litre, 220kw(295hp). This engine came from the factory with Gt40p cylinder heads that were ported slightly to match the power of the GT40 Aluminium head, that went previously into the more expensive Tickord Version, Falcon. These engines were built at Tickford by 20 engine builders @ a rate of 20 per day. Other fantastic features were the --- factory fitted roller rockers, proper headers, 70mm throttle body, massaged upper and lower intake manifold, hot tested. Then, my Synergy V8 received a hand-engraved " Hand Built with Pride by.... J Neves (the guy that assembled it). MInes nearing 200,000 miles. I hereby declare this THE MOST POWERFULL straight off the production line 302/5.0 Ford pushrod V8 EVER ... Hope you enjoyed the read !!
@@richardholdener1727 Sorry it took sooo long to reply. It's unreal mild......268/275 adv. , 203/209@.50 .455/.455 lift, on a 118 lsa . It took ages to find that one line in a month of searches !! p.s , love your work and enthusiasm 😃; these heads should make 50hp on that dyno 306 you tested !!
Ed Curtis Flow Tech Induction. Early 2000s I bought a custom cam and AFR 165s with PAC valve spring upgrade. Ran that on a dss 306. With the right setup Ed could get your fox with a 306 doing 11.50s. perfect street car application. Just knocking on the door of having to put a cage in the car
@@zachutson7205 I started with a typhoon intake like an Edelbrock knock off. at that time I was running Mac equal length shorties. If I only knew then what I know now. Those pieces on the 306 with 165 afr's 4.10 gear was 12.2s for 3100lb LX. The stuff that put me over the 12.0 edge was Holley Systemax. inlet was hogged out to 80mm to except 80mm tb. Custom made a intake tube, 4" that resembled a anderson power pipe. BBK 1 3/4" long tubes. That right off the trailer was 11.80s. More fine tuning and I went from 4.10 to Richmond 4.30s. Retarded cam timing 2.degrees to push out peak power in rpm range. Off the trailer again skipped the .70s and ran 11.60s. That was 2015. Still have all the stuff to put it back together someday
@@ericdebisz9458 wow that's bad ass. That's about the perfect street car in my opinion. No roll cage and still able to kill about anything on the street. I may not get in the 60s with mine. Being it has 3:73s 31 spline. But if I can get in the 11s I'll be stoked
@@zachutson7205 running n/a you got to jump in the 4. Something gears 4.10 4.30 4.56. depending on your combo. To get the little 306 to boggy.you know. I ran a g force t5 with reduced overdrive gear, .59 I think. In 5th at 70mph it was similar rpm as if I had 3.55s and a 26" tire
Two ways to look at the valve float issues with these heads: One is that they all provide insufficient valve spring pressure. Another is that the Comp XE series of cams push the boundaries of ramp velocity for street cams, requiring higher spring rates than most. All of these heads would work okay with a lot of aftermarket cams, including some of Comp's less-aggressive profiles. Choosing ramp velocities will always be a balancing act between increasing performance versus increased wear, noise, and valvetrain upgrade requirements. These days most folks are opting towards the higher ramp rates; as Richard suggested, head manufacturers mostly have followed the trend by increasing their spring rates. The takeaway is to match your springs to your cam maker's recommendation rather than settling for significantly lighter (or heavier) springs that happen to come on your heads. Economically, most of these heads can be purchased bare if a spring change will be required.
What I like about your videos is that you show the HP and torque curves and compare them. A lot of other youtubers doing this only give peak power, but I want to know how it's going to act down low as well.
Thank you thank you. I've always wondered what a set of gt40 heads were like compared to aftermarket. Would be neat to see what the iron gt40 heads would do on the same set up but with some porting and higher compression.
Ive been digging through my old magazines. love seeing the info come back sir. i remember being 16-17 years old and digging through pick n pull windsor yard looking for a ford explorer engine. i ended up swapping in the trick flow stage 2 cam (.554 lift) as your recommendation from an article. funs times.
Older stuff of YOURS, but still a good watch and a nice relief from all the political talk. And I mean nothing bad in that as your info from then, is still just as real now. Over time you almost forget where we came from on heads. I still have my Windsor Sr from SuperShops in the garage. At the time, IF you couldn't step up to some highports it was about as good as it got for 1990. When 250cfm was great and 6500rpm of hyd roller was dreamy. Can you imagine telling some guy in 1990 that we'd be doing nearly 8000rpm with hyd rollers LOL. Esp the poor Chevy guys...... rem the helper springs on top of the lifters? Keep it coming, Richard!
All of your data would be far easier to read in a spreadsheet than a text file like you have it. I've got plenty of extra time on my hands right now and would be happy to help compile it as such for future videos, even into a Google Sheets file that you could link in the description so that people could open rather than having to pause the video and transcribe.
Amen! A good machine refresh and valve job, aftermarket springs if bigger cam, and real mild porting on the exhaust side to bring down that “knee” ridge... f’ers run real hard. And that iron will never let you down
@@xmo552 Has a C5 Automatic Trans, rebuild to a Super duty C4. 5000 stall converter, 410 gears, South side machine bar's, adjustable upper control arms. Competion adjustable shocks, 90/10 stuts on front. 50- 300 shot of NOS.
I had a set of GT40 aluminum with the smaller combustion chambers with a Motorsport B cam. Car ran excellent. It was just a nice combo. Not the fastest but it did very well. Also holly systemax intake with 24lb injectors.
Love the Ford stuff Richard!! Thanks Wait.. no TFS heads in this mix?? EDIT: You mention private stuff on the maker..Didnt Brodex or Canfield make the Holley heads?
PLEASE do a low budget head test. Ebay heads like NKB against flotek heads against basically everything under 1k/set and let's see what an average joe could do with a freshened shortblock and a good cam. All of these heads in this test minus the GT40s and the E7s are expensive as hell.
A lot of the head designs have been tweaked over the years as well as cam selection increase. I am talking about throwing a bunch of the NEW Ebay heads, Floteks (they have a new CNC version as well) and other heads that all are below 1k dollars/set (NKB and others) that are having a large impact on the scene where guys will go grab a short block out of a wrecking yard and throw H/C/I on it, maybe a little nitrous, and have some fun with it. The 7 heads that work test was also done on a lot of the harder to find heads that have gone up substantially in price Cite: World/RHS as well as were under 1200 not the 1K mark where you will find A LOT of these at. ALSO that test was not done on a wrecking yard engine but a DART block I believe and is NOWHERE near the same thing esp with pistons.
What this test affirms in my mind is why people would take a stock engine 5.0 Mustang in the early 00s and supercharge it to make power. That 264HR really is a great cam for how mild it is looking at the numbers.
Ft/lbs is easier to say, but ft/lbs refers to linear torque, lb/ft refers to twisting torque. So lb/ft is what you should be saying-being an expert like you are!
Perfect timing. Building myself a spare 305 at work with leftover parts. Got the block whole engine 50 bucks hydraulic roller block. Shooting for 400hp
They had an episode of Engine Masters were they took a big 408 stroker and ran it with the little 165 AFR heads (they were starting there and comparing head sizes up to 220cc). The damn thing made 470 hp and 510 torque!!! As far as I was concerned that was the perfect combo for the street.
@@tomstorino70 because it is a sweet engine except for the head bolts on the earlier years. I have owned 2 and never had a problem. A lot of horse power out of a 4.6L.
What does oil on the floor have to do with anything? BTW have you seen the V8 4.3 video he did? He could hardly keep it full of oil it was leaking so much.
Regarding your question on spring pressure on HR cams. I came to the conclusion too much was better than too little. Less wear and chance of lifter failure from float was my conclusion. More power because no valve float. I went with a 450 lb/in rate spring. Its fine.
AFR builds good stuff but there are 2 better heads. One is the Yates nascar heads(BIG$). I don't think they're street legal. The other heads(king of ford Windsor street heads) are made by Jon Kasse. They are a canted valve design for better flow at high AND low lift. They made 499 horsepower on a stock 5.0 liter block with an intake and carb. Stock shortblock and i think the cam was too. These heads are called the P38 heads. I believe they sell for around 2400.00 for a pair which obviously isn't cheap but they ARE the best. If anyone has doubts about jon kasse, a quick Google search will show all the engine masters challenges he has won as well as lots of professional drag racing wins. He also custom builds the old school SOHC ford motors with brand new race parts for.......$55,000. He is a god. Anyway, I'm an old time fox body fan and Windsor lover and had to mention these excellent pieces.
Kaase heads don't make 499 hp on a stock 5.0L with a carb and intake-no heads do! Jon is a great guy and does amazing stuff-but he would be the first to tell you that you are misquoting the results of some test
When are you going to do anything about the V10 Ford I would like to see some videos and there's probably a few other people that would like to see some videos on them too
I remember waiting for the next months magazine to hit the racks so I could buy it. This cylinder head tests series was the most informative things I remembered from any magazine back in the early 90s. I honestly didn't even know you were the one behind it. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into doing all the test and research. Just wondering, do they still call the dyno master himself " LL BRUEL J"
He's telling the truth! Spent last September in California and people thought I was weird wearing a T Shirt in 60 degree weather lol. Cold in California = warm to Wisconsinites
California has some of the coldest and hottest temperatures ever recorded in the US-all of California and all of Wisconsin are not the same temperature nor are the people the same-a T shirt in 60-degree weather is normal in any state
Sure, but I've never seen so many people complain about riding a bicycle outside while it's misty and 60⁰, they had hoodies and winter hats lol. To be fair, these were all people who spend 90% on the coast!
You should make a video getting the 302 to make max torque , lots of us guys with old 80s and 90s trucks and vans need more torque. Everyone always just says swap to 351.
It would good to know the flow from professionally ported factory heads. But hey, thank you Richard for your very considerable effort which produced a lot of good information!
David Vizard has a UA-cam where he said he did 2.02 and 1 6 valves in a e7te head with extensive port work and got 280cfm. It was him saying it. I don't think you can count on getting that number but many ported e7 heads are around 220 to 230 cfm or around some cleaned up gt40 iron heads.
One option is to bolt on Cleveland heads. You just need to drill a water passage going to the intake. It might be difficult getting an intake. A Boss 302 is just a Windsor 302 with 4V Cleveland heads.
Love what’s being done here lots of ideas. Would love you to do some straight sixes ie. Ford 300, chevy 290, dodge slanted etc. I’m a Ford guy and I have a few 300 L6 engines and would love to see what their potential is, and how they compare relative to each manufacturer. I’m certain that there’s a “small“ crowd of straight six fans out there that would love to see the same. Love the channel!Thanks.
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 84 Ford 300 industrial in my engine stand that I want to build and a 84 in a shed that needs to be built also, just in case you need one to monster build 💪🏻👍🏻🙏🏼
Excellent review. Makes me feel good about my inexpensive GT40P heads on my nearly stock 302. I just can’t believe you ran a Fram oil filter. They are complete garbage. Cut one open and you’ll see the filter element ends are made of cardboard. A good option is a Wix filter or (NAPA Gold which is a Wix filter).
Richard, Can you make an account on Rumble? I think you would be an amazing addition and this forum is now the enemy of free speech. I really don't want to miss any videos!!
With the popularity of ported factory LS heads these days, it would be interesting to see a set of CNC’d set of the aluminum factory Ford heads compared.
Your videos are awesome and so informative. Makes me think of going through all the magazines back in the day before we had youtube to find the best combos. With this video I was kinda surprised you didn't have a set of trickflows....I have the trickflow trackheat 170 heads which were the most common used by renegade class back in the day along with the AFRs. I know there are tons of different heads but would have loved to have seen a set of trickflow in the mix. Anyhow, keep up the great videos. 👍 Just saw the other video you posted with twisted wedge. Nice to see, great data.
@@richardholdener1727 yeah thx, I updated my reply after watching video 2...lol Also, since I'm sure you have tested both, how do the trackheat 170s compare to the twisted wedge, I think mine are 61cc , can't remember it's been so long since I put them on...haha
@@richardholdener1727 oh, ok. Might want to check them out sometime if you ever address 302 heads, they were the most winning head type in nmra for I believe the renegade class. Even lists its history on Summit when you look them up. I just happened to be told about them at one of the many NMRA races at Bradenton I went to and after researching in magazines I found they and the AFR were the two top heads then. Anyhow, might want to check them out sometime. Thanks for your videos, makes life easier when considering different combinations.
Ive been looking into buying another of my original car, way back in the 80s… a 78 LTDII, that had a 351M, and had the option of a 400. Same for the next car, a 78 Cougar XR7 with a 351W. I was also scouting for a better engine/trans option, like a 351w, that doesnt require a lot of money, and I just discovered there is a Ford 534, late-50s thru early 70s, I think, that was used in big trucks and even used as a tank engine. Of course, I had to investigate this new thing. At something like 1300lbs, obviously its a MONSTER, and obv too big and heavy for most cars, like a mid-70s intermediate. Then I saw, in marine form, with dual turbos, it made a max of 400hp, so they already made a sort of performance version. Im curious if anyone has hotrodded one of those. Aside from the weight, it seems like it would be a natural to try beefing it up.
I own a mustang and yes these combos appeal to me greatly and Thank you for taking the time. My mustang is a twisty car. I want to build a vehicle for drag racing and that is my 05 Nissan Frontier. (It’s paid for). I also have seen a large following in the Nissan. VK series motor for drag racing. Really strong crank and block. I could use an LS and just be done with it but this VK56 is cheap, Titans and suvs have them. They are prevalent. Can you consider taking a look at it? You’ve done Honda’s and I think there’s a group that might open up to you. Big Thanks
Just saying, there is absolutely no way you could build the VK to rival power of an LS for cheaper as you say lol. Have you not seen the simple heads/cam LS motors that make well over 1000-1200 HP? That DOHC Nissan motor will take thousands of dollars more to be competitive in power production. Yes it is a capable engine, but there is a reason you see 100 LS builds at the drag strip for every 1 5.6 Nissan you might see running down the 1320 (or 660).
The 69 big valve Boss 302 heads are amazing! I know a guy that has been running a Boss 302 in his drag cars for 30+yrs. He runs a aftermarket 4 bolt main block, but still runs a original 69 Boss crankshaft and 69 iron Boss 302 heads and makes insane power! He is making a little over 900 N/A Hp with only 311ci... and twisting it up to 11k rpms!!
Shout out to the Ford guys.... Because of Richard I'm thinking of getting this 93 GT Mustang, for one I didnt like the 93 Corvette body nor the Camaro... Plus it's the year my baby Brother was Born 1993-2014🙏🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻#RIHErrun
I still run AFR to this day because of your research. AFR shoulda gave you a commission check !! Lol
They make one of the best all around inline head for domestic V8 engines. If you require canted heads. There's a ton of excellent choices too.
Thank you Richard, I know a bunch of us Ford guys appreciate everything you do for us. Awesome information ,now all we have to do is pick a combo!
@Grey Roger ¹
A buddy was just telling me he wants to upgrade the top end in his 93 mustang. I told him your channel has everything he could possibly want or need to select a great combination of parts. Keep up the good work.
Right on!
Small block Ford head testing? Im here for it!
Think you might want to use Excel to produce a table that's a little easier to read😅
Richard I'm 100% a CHEVY guy but I totally have to appreciate how awesome your work is. I mean talk about going above and beyond. Best "auto" channel on UA-cam hands down. Your dedication to the job is amazing.
Wow, thanks!
And here I am, many years later, playing with my 351w and all this info (parts 1-4) is helping me out big time. Thanks so much for this data.
I would love to see the same heads and same cam setups on the 351w short block just to compare how much you would actually gain with a "short block swap" I feel like a lot of guys would benefit from the knowledge of how much exactly you gain on the change in cubic inches alone all over the graph
Good idea!
I would like to see this to!!!
I agree I would like to know the exact hp and Rpm difference vs the 351w
Bascially, more power earlier, higher peak, and then the power would start dropping more a little sooner, if the 302 based engine couldnt work the head hard enough to show "choke."
I can tell you very accurate guess. You could count on around 450-460 ft/lbs and 415-425hp if a 351W short block with the same compression and camshaft were used. Hp would peak around 5500rpm
I appreciate the milder version of the 5.0 as it represents a good combination for street driving with an automatic transmission.
Explorers came with the gt40 and the gt40p heads...
yes
@@PureCountryof91 and the nice and stout 8.8 coupled to the durable 4R70W
@Jackson P. Storm haha so true, almost lost it just typing that considering how much cash I dumped into mine to make it “durable” against anything other than “short term lease soccer mom throttle”
@@PureCountryof91 yup! best late model iron heads ford ever intentionally produced and factory equipped for the Windsor 5.0
i for one appreciate this i remember when you did this i think i still have the magazine or series that you did
Our Foxbody my Dad built has 205cc AFR Fully ported and polished heads, the sound and power that it gives on the 5.0 is just Amazing!
Richard, you're going to love to hear this ... I hope ! I live in NZ, and have a 2001 Ford Falcon AU XR8 5.0 litre, 220kw(295hp). This engine came from the factory with Gt40p cylinder heads that were ported slightly to match the power of the GT40 Aluminium head, that went previously into the more expensive Tickord Version, Falcon. These engines were built at Tickford by 20 engine builders @ a rate of 20 per day. Other fantastic features were the --- factory fitted roller rockers, proper headers, 70mm throttle body, massaged upper and lower intake manifold, hot tested. Then, my Synergy V8 received a hand-engraved " Hand Built with Pride by.... J Neves (the guy that assembled it). MInes nearing 200,000 miles. I hereby declare this THE MOST POWERFULL straight off the production line 302/5.0 Ford pushrod V8 EVER ... Hope you enjoyed the read !!
WHAT CAM
@@richardholdener1727 Sorry it took sooo long to reply. It's unreal mild......268/275 adv. , 203/209@.50 .455/.455 lift, on a 118 lsa . It took ages to find that one line in a month of searches !! p.s , love your work and enthusiasm 😃; these heads should make 50hp on that dyno 306 you tested !!
Ed Curtis Flow Tech Induction. Early 2000s I bought a custom cam and AFR 165s with PAC valve spring upgrade. Ran that on a dss 306. With the right setup Ed could get your fox with a 306 doing 11.50s. perfect street car application. Just knocking on the door of having to put a cage in the car
What intake manifold did you run. That's exactly the set up I been saving for. Just undecided on the intake manifold
@@zachutson7205 I started with a typhoon intake like an Edelbrock knock off. at that time I was running Mac equal length shorties. If I only knew then what I know now. Those pieces on the 306 with 165 afr's 4.10 gear was 12.2s for 3100lb LX. The stuff that put me over the 12.0 edge was Holley Systemax. inlet was hogged out to 80mm to except 80mm tb. Custom made a intake tube, 4" that resembled a anderson power pipe. BBK 1 3/4" long tubes. That right off the trailer was 11.80s. More fine tuning and I went from 4.10 to Richmond 4.30s. Retarded cam timing 2.degrees to push out peak power in rpm range. Off the trailer again skipped the .70s and ran 11.60s. That was 2015. Still have all the stuff to put it back together someday
@@ericdebisz9458 wow that's bad ass. That's about the perfect street car in my opinion. No roll cage and still able to kill about anything on the street. I may not get in the 60s with mine. Being it has 3:73s 31 spline. But if I can get in the 11s I'll be stoked
@@zachutson7205 running n/a you got to jump in the 4. Something gears 4.10 4.30 4.56. depending on your combo. To get the little 306 to boggy.you know. I ran a g force t5 with reduced overdrive gear, .59 I think. In 5th at 70mph it was similar rpm as if I had 3.55s and a 26" tire
Two ways to look at the valve float issues with these heads: One is that they all provide insufficient valve spring pressure. Another is that the Comp XE series of cams push the boundaries of ramp velocity for street cams, requiring higher spring rates than most. All of these heads would work okay with a lot of aftermarket cams, including some of Comp's less-aggressive profiles. Choosing ramp velocities will always be a balancing act between increasing performance versus increased wear, noise, and valvetrain upgrade requirements. These days most folks are opting towards the higher ramp rates; as Richard suggested, head manufacturers mostly have followed the trend by increasing their spring rates. The takeaway is to match your springs to your cam maker's recommendation rather than settling for significantly lighter (or heavier) springs that happen to come on your heads. Economically, most of these heads can be purchased bare if a spring change will be required.
What I like about your videos is that you show the HP and torque curves and compare them. A lot of other youtubers doing this only give peak power, but I want to know how it's going to act down low as well.
My Lord you just kill it with specs.
This is cool, I dig the 5.0/Windsor stuff. 👍🏻
This video is amazing. Thank you so much for the level of rigor you put in documenting everything.
This is the video I’ve waited for all my life
You ROCK Mr. Holdener!!!! Thank you and can't wait for the rest of this series! BTW-21 degs this morning north of the border
that's less than 71! Actually I'm Norwegian and lived in Tahoe for a while-the cold is not a problem-people just give the Cali people a hard time.
Best SBF cylinder head Dyno comparison on UA-cam!
Thank you thank you. I've always wondered what a set of gt40 heads were like compared to aftermarket. Would be neat to see what the iron gt40 heads would do on the same set up but with some porting and higher compression.
They will out flow them when ported properly!💯
Shouldn't b much different from the gt40p heads
Gt40 untouched are 185 to 190 cfm. Most of the ported numbers i remember are 220 to 240cfm.
Ive been digging through my old magazines. love seeing the info come back sir. i remember being 16-17 years old and digging through pick n pull windsor yard looking for a ford explorer engine. i ended up swapping in the trick flow stage 2 cam (.554 lift) as your recommendation from an article. funs times.
Older stuff of YOURS, but still a good watch and a nice relief from all the political talk. And I mean nothing bad in that as your info from then, is still just as real now. Over time you almost forget where we came from on heads. I still have my Windsor Sr from SuperShops in the garage. At the time, IF you couldn't step up to some highports it was about as good as it got for 1990. When 250cfm was great and 6500rpm of hyd roller was dreamy. Can you imagine telling some guy in 1990 that we'd be doing nearly 8000rpm with hyd rollers LOL. Esp the poor Chevy guys...... rem the helper springs on top of the lifters? Keep it coming, Richard!
REV KITS
All of your data would be far easier to read in a spreadsheet than a text file like you have it. I've got plenty of extra time on my hands right now and would be happy to help compile it as such for future videos, even into a Google Sheets file that you could link in the description so that people could open rather than having to pause the video and transcribe.
Yah I was thinking the same thing. Excel would have made this easier to read
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! You're the man! Best channel on UA-cam.
the GT40P heads are actually factory production heads, they came on the '97-2001 5.0L Explorer and Mountaineer
They're a good improvement over te E7TE heads.
Got GT40 Ps on my Stang. Real Cobra intake, cobra computer, 24 lb injector's. It's out ran stang's with aluminum head's. It runs good for what it is
Amen! A good machine refresh and valve job, aftermarket springs if bigger cam, and real mild porting on the exhaust side to bring down that “knee” ridge... f’ers run real hard. And that iron will never let you down
What's the set up
@@xmo552 Has a C5 Automatic Trans, rebuild to a Super duty C4. 5000 stall converter, 410 gears, South side machine bar's, adjustable upper control arms. Competion adjustable shocks, 90/10 stuts on front. 50- 300 shot of NOS.
300 giggle juice horsies 💪😁
Awesome, I appreciate all your effort . It is a great help for anyone interested in building the 302😁👍
Love everything you do with ford small blocks. Stay safe and have a great holiday season!
Oh, so sorry. It's all the way down to 71 degrees in SoCal today. Snowy and 31 here in Michigan.
I had a set of GT40 aluminum with the smaller combustion chambers with a Motorsport B cam. Car ran excellent. It was just a nice combo. Not the fastest but it did very well. Also holly systemax intake with 24lb injectors.
Definitely a proven combination on the streets back in the day!
Anyone know what whp would be on that set up?
Wow, the AFRs were the CLEAR winner, with the Edelbrock, Canfield, Brodix, and Holley all vying for 2nd.
best flowing small bore? the TW is in the next group
I have a lot of episodes to catch up once I reach home after 4 months of working overseas
The valvetrain weight was a brilliant idea
Just can't get enough of sbf tests
Wow this is awesome! I can't get enough of this channel! Thank you Richard!
Love the Ford stuff Richard!! Thanks
Wait.. no TFS heads in this mix??
EDIT: You mention private stuff on the maker..Didnt Brodex or Canfield make the Holley heads?
i THINK THIS WAS PRE TW
You do tremendous work and wish their was this much engine build detail back in the day.
Awesome video! Just what I’ve been waiting for.
Man I know it was tough but I appreciate it. I feel like I owe you money at this point
thnx-it was a ton of work-but good data is valuable forever
PLEASE do a low budget head test. Ebay heads like NKB against flotek heads against basically everything under 1k/set and let's see what an average joe could do with a freshened shortblock and a good cam. All of these heads in this test minus the GT40s and the E7s are expensive as hell.
this was done 10-15 years ago
A lot of the head designs have been tweaked over the years as well as cam selection increase. I am talking about throwing a bunch of the NEW Ebay heads, Floteks (they have a new CNC version as well) and other heads that all are below 1k dollars/set (NKB and others) that are having a large impact on the scene where guys will go grab a short block out of a wrecking yard and throw H/C/I on it, maybe a little nitrous, and have some fun with it.
The 7 heads that work test was also done on a lot of the harder to find heads that have gone up substantially in price Cite: World/RHS as well as were under 1200 not the 1K mark where you will find A LOT of these at. ALSO that test was not done on a wrecking yard engine but a DART block I believe and is NOWHERE near the same thing esp with pistons.
Thank you very much for your time and dedication to this subject , very very useful information you put out to us . GOD BLESS YOU.
What this test affirms in my mind is why people would take a stock engine 5.0 Mustang in the early 00s and supercharge it to make power. That 264HR really is a great cam for how mild it is looking at the numbers.
Another good one, Richard! Good job! Go AFR, go! Yeah! I love my 185s on my 347! She runs! Keep em coming, bro!
Ft/lbs is easier to say, but ft/lbs refers to linear torque, lb/ft refers to twisting torque. So lb/ft is what you should be saying-being an expert like you are!
Perfect timing. Building myself a spare 305 at work with leftover parts. Got the block whole engine 50 bucks hydraulic roller block. Shooting for 400hp
Easy with carb.
Use the Joe Sherman tricks.
They had an episode of Engine Masters were they took a big 408 stroker and ran it with the little 165 AFR heads (they were starting there and comparing head sizes up to 220cc). The damn thing made 470 hp and 510 torque!!! As far as I was concerned that was the perfect combo for the street.
On the 165s?
@@xmo552 Yep, probably the best general purpose Small Block engine I've seen. You could put it in anything and be happy.
AFR165 heads despite being the smaller option tend to flow very good for their size at reasonable lifts. The unsung hero
I would love to see you work on a North Star engine.
Why? Lol
@@tomstorino70 because it is a sweet engine except for the head bolts on the earlier years. I have owned 2 and never had a problem. A lot of horse power out of a 4.6L.
This is all being done at Westech and they are anal about oil on the floor.
What does oil on the floor have to do with anything? BTW have you seen the V8 4.3 video he did? He could hardly keep it full of oil it was leaking so much.
@@thecatalyst7743 I'm sorry , but the Northstar is a horrible engine. Period.
Regarding your question on spring pressure on HR cams.
I came to the conclusion too much was better than too little.
Less wear and chance of lifter failure from float was my conclusion.
More power because no valve float.
I went with a 450 lb/in rate spring. Its fine.
AFR builds good stuff but there are 2 better heads. One is the Yates nascar heads(BIG$). I don't think they're street legal. The other heads(king of ford Windsor street heads) are made by Jon Kasse. They are a canted valve design for better flow at high AND low lift. They made 499 horsepower on a stock 5.0 liter block with an intake and carb. Stock shortblock and i think the cam was too. These heads are called the P38 heads. I believe they sell for around 2400.00 for a pair which obviously isn't cheap but they ARE the best. If anyone has doubts about jon kasse, a quick Google search will show all the engine masters challenges he has won as well as lots of professional drag racing wins. He also custom builds the old school SOHC ford motors with brand new race parts for.......$55,000. He is a god. Anyway, I'm an old time fox body fan and Windsor lover and had to mention these excellent pieces.
Kaase heads don't make 499 hp on a stock 5.0L with a carb and intake-no heads do! Jon is a great guy and does amazing stuff-but he would be the first to tell you that you are misquoting the results of some test
Rich!
I'm a little sad you didn't throw on the Ebay Chinesium heads alongside all these!
The Holley Systemax heads are chinesium.
@@zombieninjatedsmith1301
But they're not the ultra generic ebay heads. If it has holleys name on it it doesn't count.
When are you going to do anything about the V10 Ford I would like to see some videos and there's probably a few other people that would like to see some videos on them too
Excellent video Richard. Keep it up man!
Another amazing vídeo, thanks a lot sir!!! 👏👏👏
Love to see a E5TE vs E6TE vs E7TE shootout!!!!!!
I remember waiting for the next months magazine to hit the racks so I could buy it. This cylinder head tests series was the most informative things I remembered from any magazine back in the early 90s. I honestly didn't even know you were the one behind it. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into doing all the test and research. Just wondering, do they still call the dyno master himself " LL BRUEL J"
we do
@@richardholdener1727 glad you've stuck with it so long, you don't know how many people you have helped with all your work . Thanks a lot.
He's telling the truth! Spent last September in California and people thought I was weird wearing a T Shirt in 60 degree weather lol. Cold in California = warm to Wisconsinites
California has some of the coldest and hottest temperatures ever recorded in the US-all of California and all of Wisconsin are not the same temperature nor are the people the same-a T shirt in 60-degree weather is normal in any state
Sure, but I've never seen so many people complain about riding a bicycle outside while it's misty and 60⁰, they had hoodies and winter hats lol. To be fair, these were all people who spend 90% on the coast!
You should make a video getting the 302 to make max torque , lots of us guys with old 80s and 90s trucks and vans need more torque. Everyone always just says swap to 351.
I’m running AFR 185s on my 89 LX. I don’t have any complaints.
Richard you are awesome... We Ford guys thank you
Wow that's impressive! I could just hope that my 306 combination can be on the top of that chart. Great info and thanks for sharing with us Richard!
You bet!
It would good to know the flow from professionally ported factory heads. But hey, thank you Richard for your very considerable effort which produced a lot of good information!
David Vizard has a UA-cam where he said he did 2.02 and 1 6 valves in a e7te head with extensive port work and got 280cfm. It was him saying it. I don't think you can count on getting that number but many ported e7 heads are around 220 to 230 cfm or around some cleaned up gt40 iron heads.
R.H. ..............I still have the Mags, there 7 feet from me now !!!!!!!!!!!! always thumbs up !!!!!!!!
NICE-COLLECTOR'S ITEMS
21:15 After you put me under your spell, I went and bought another project car. What is this madness!!!!
Thanks. I have a few pairs or gt40s for my 351s. Kicking around Skip White though.
Awesome! Old fuelie cylinder head shootout 👊 Thanks for this series richard, you’re a legend Bro!
One option is to bolt on Cleveland heads. You just need to drill a water passage going to the intake. It might be difficult getting an intake.
A Boss 302 is just a Windsor 302 with 4V Cleveland heads.
You still have to plug the square water ports in the heads that flow from the Cleveland block.
Love what’s being done here lots of ideas. Would love you to do some straight sixes ie. Ford 300, chevy 290, dodge slanted etc. I’m a Ford guy and I have a few 300 L6 engines and would love to see what their potential is, and how they compare relative to each manufacturer. I’m certain that there’s a “small“ crowd of straight six fans out there that would love to see the same. Love the channel!Thanks.
I have the 292 Chevy tests-doing more-then a 300 Ford and 4200 Chevy
@@richardholdener1727 awesome can’t wait to see it!!!
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 84 Ford 300 industrial in my engine stand that I want to build and a 84 in a shed that needs to be built also, just in case you need one to monster build 💪🏻👍🏻🙏🏼
Thanks again for ALL you do!
another great 5.0 video, thanks and keep them coming
Excellent review. Makes me feel good about my inexpensive GT40P heads on my nearly stock 302.
I just can’t believe you ran a Fram oil filter. They are complete garbage. Cut one open and you’ll see the filter element ends are made of cardboard. A good option is a Wix filter or (NAPA Gold which is a Wix filter).
Fram makes 6 different grades of filters.
Why do you guys always test the lowest against simebody elses high dollar filters?
Thank you for the hard work and data!
Richard,
Can you make an account on Rumble? I think you would be an amazing addition and this forum is now the enemy of free speech. I really don't want to miss any videos!!
what forum is the enemy of free speech?
Incredible amount of work and your time thank you
My pleasure!
With the popularity of ported factory LS heads these days, it would be interesting to see a set of CNC’d set of the aluminum factory Ford heads compared.
Ford never offered alum factory heads on the 5.0L
Excellent! Loved this back in the day. Looking forward to the series. I still run the old school GT40-Y’s lol
I think you should show all the work that goes into your videos.
it would be hours long
Thanks Richard, nice work and excellent presentation 👍 wish I could hit like more than once.
Your videos are awesome and so informative. Makes me think of going through all the magazines back in the day before we had youtube to find the best combos.
With this video I was kinda surprised you didn't have a set of trickflows....I have the trickflow trackheat 170 heads which were the most common used by renegade class back in the day along with the AFRs. I know there are tons of different heads but would have loved to have seen a set of trickflow in the mix.
Anyhow, keep up the great videos. 👍
Just saw the other video you posted with twisted wedge. Nice to see, great data.
check out part 2 of the head test-the tfs heads are there
@@richardholdener1727 yeah thx, I updated my reply after watching video 2...lol
Also, since I'm sure you have tested both, how do the trackheat 170s compare to the twisted wedge, I think mine are 61cc , can't remember it's been so long since I put them on...haha
not sure on those exact heads
@@richardholdener1727 oh, ok. Might want to check them out sometime if you ever address 302 heads, they were the most winning head type in nmra for I believe the renegade class. Even lists its history on Summit when you look them up. I just happened to be told about them at one of the many NMRA races at Bradenton I went to and after researching in magazines I found they and the AFR were the two top heads then. Anyhow, might want to check them out sometime.
Thanks for your videos, makes life easier when considering different combinations.
USA aftermarket heads are so good. But CNC machined GT49Ps are 215 to 22
Another great one Richard, thanks.
This shootout was in the first issue of MM&FF I ever bought.
it was fun back then with Campy and Evan
It’s all about “data” ❤❤❤
One of my favorite videos
Very cool 😎!!! I’m looking at one of these sets of heads for a F4TE 351w .
Ive been looking into buying another of my original car, way back in the 80s… a 78 LTDII, that had a 351M, and had the option of a 400. Same for the next car, a 78 Cougar XR7 with a 351W. I was also scouting for a better engine/trans option, like a 351w, that doesnt require a lot of money, and I just discovered there is a Ford 534, late-50s thru early 70s, I think, that was used in big trucks and even used as a tank engine. Of course, I had to investigate this new thing.
At something like 1300lbs, obviously its a MONSTER, and obv too big and heavy for most cars, like a mid-70s intermediate. Then I saw, in marine form, with dual turbos, it made a max of 400hp, so they already made a sort of performance version. Im curious if anyone has hotrodded one of those. Aside from the weight, it seems like it would be a natural to try beefing it up.
Those afr heads are pretty wicked. I need those. 90 hp gain ???
thank you so much for your time! rich
Crud thought he finally got a coyote. Watching them make 530whp with cai tune and headers even with catalytic converters is just crazy
he has Coyote vids up
I own a mustang and yes these combos appeal to me greatly and Thank you for taking the time. My mustang is a twisty car. I want to build a vehicle for drag racing and that is my 05 Nissan Frontier. (It’s paid for). I also have seen a large following in the Nissan. VK series motor for drag racing. Really strong crank and block. I could use an LS and just be done with it but this VK56 is cheap, Titans and suvs have them. They are prevalent. Can you consider taking a look at it? You’ve done Honda’s and I think there’s a group that might open up to you.
Big Thanks
Just saying, there is absolutely no way you could build the VK to rival power of an LS for cheaper as you say lol. Have you not seen the simple heads/cam LS motors that make well over 1000-1200 HP? That DOHC Nissan motor will take thousands of dollars more to be competitive in power production. Yes it is a capable engine, but there is a reason you see 100 LS builds at the drag strip for every 1 5.6 Nissan you might see running down the 1320 (or 660).
It’s funny how Ford had both the best heads and the worst heads from boss 302 to the smog era 302
The 69 big valve Boss 302 heads are amazing! I know a guy that has been running a Boss 302 in his drag cars for 30+yrs. He runs a aftermarket 4 bolt main block, but still runs a original 69 Boss crankshaft and 69 iron Boss 302 heads and makes insane power! He is making a little over 900 N/A Hp with only 311ci... and twisting it up to 11k rpms!!
Ford did that on purpose
13:19 edelbrock performer
Awesome video man, just missing a trick flow head
see part 2
Those afr heads are impress, I have edelbrock performer on my 347, looking at 11r for my next build
Keep it coming, love it
Thank You Richard! Great data again!!!
Thank you Richard. Isn't this the same test as MM&FF magazine did years ago ? I still have all the magazine's. Nice to see it in video form now.
Shout out to the Ford guys.... Because of Richard I'm thinking of getting this 93 GT Mustang, for one I didnt like the 93 Corvette body nor the Camaro... Plus it's the year my baby Brother was Born 1993-2014🙏🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻#RIHErrun
There's more cylinder head than motor. Indeed!
Now I want to pull my aluminum gt40 for some afrs and a 274 cam of course.