What effect does Far Red have on plant growth? | Should we add Far Red to grow light spectrum?
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- Is Far Red beneficial for indoor growing? We look at the most recent studies and technology to determine if we should add far red to our grow light spectrum and what effect Far red has on plant growth and development.
Thanks to Bruce Bugbee and Apogee Instruments for sharing some slides with us of their most recent findings in this area for our presentation. These are taken from his recent video on grow light spectrum 'Cannabis Grow Lighting Myths and FAQs with Dr. Bruce Bugbee'
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You're one of the channels that legitimately makes me happy whenever i see a new upload. Thank you for sharing this information👍
🎯
I luv watching Shane's work but I always smile at myself when he starts to lose me as he goes deeper into the explanations and behond my ability to understand brilliant teacher tho
Great video Shane!
Dr. Bruce Bugbee has a great video on this topic on the Apogee channel, recommend for anyone looking for additional info.
Is this the Dr Bugbee video you're referring to? ua-cam.com/video/sS7aAcacfgk/v-deo.html
It was recommended to me next by UA-cam so of course I had to watch it ;-) I love that guy and find him a trove of information.
@@ConsciusVeritasVids Bruce Bugbee and his team at Utah University are Geniuses doing awesome things, I watch all his videos and learn so much, he teaches like your sitting in one of his classes, great videos I suggest anyone trying to Soak up as much info on Growing as possible like I am to watch the apogee Bruce Bugbe videos, I guarentee you'll learn something new every video you watch, atleast I do, but I'm also a fairly new grower going only on my 4th yr of growing Canibus.
@@ConsciusVeritasVids Yes, that's the video he did on Far Red, great video, so informative!!
Of topic; he also explained the npk levels of 20-10-20 being optimal true out the grow phase. I’m still finding new content about it but it just seems so incredible. Would 20-10-20 be the perfect solution?
Mgm Grant Idk, On a big outdoors Grow one summer I used Jacks 20-20-20 and 20-6-22 switching up every 4 days or so like one watering I’d give the 20-20-20 and then like 4 days later the 20-6-22 and switch back and forth, then in Flower I used jacks 5-50-18 and I got great results, idk about 20-10-20 but it’s close to 20-6-22 which is really good!
Bruce Bugbee is the ultimate light guru.
I use far red indoors at the beginning and end of the light cycle to simulate the sunrise and sunset. It will help slowly wake your plants as well as help put them to sleep much better than a sudden on/off of the lights.
there is zero evidence that a sudden on or off shocks the plants or causes any negative effects at all.
@@FirstLast-numba1it’s not about harm, it’s about improvement
@@ewentglobal9480 there is no evidence of improvement.
@@FirstLast-numba1 Not yet, has anyone measured it and disproved there is an improvement?
@@happycakes1946 Dr Bruce Bugbee
Love that you know your maths and statistics, Shane! I always look forward to your videos. Thank you for enlightening us all
This is why I subbed. I love this conversation.
Thank you so much shane. You're one of the pioneers of this industry.
Love it, this is the best channel around for light reviews and such. Subbed
Fascinating, really appreciate your posts thank you Shane
Thanks for presenting your understanding of far red and how it might apply to cannabis.
The whole video was amazingly informative and high quality. Thank you!
Good job explaining it all Shane as usual
Thanks 👍
Great video. Answers questions we've been thinking about for years
Shane since your interview with Bruce bugbee I felt deeper into that materia ....
Looked all of his presentations on UA-cam.
As always very informative and good collection of content...
Thanks from austria for publishing and please keep on the good work!
Thanks and much respect from Michigan USA!
Thank you Shane, I've been learning so much from your videos! I hope you can do something like this for UV-A ❤️
Best informative channel on UA-cam 👍 please keep them coming
Thank you for this explanation!
Great video, thanks for sharing your info.
As always great information
You are awesome! Thanks you for what you do.
Great info Shane thank you
Thank you again for the information
太棒太專業了!!! 非常感謝你的付出!~
Pouring pure gold out here Shane, i hope you have more gold in storge :D, keep up the good work ma man!
I've watched Bugby and Runkle, very technical and informative. You make the info much more enjoyable to listen to and user friendly. Still trying to watch all you of your content, I'm getting there. Thanks Shane
Thanks Brett.
Great show I love the information one aspect that I did not hear about was the use of for red for quicker flower development Bruce Bugbee reported that they are still determining but there are signs that for red helps shorten the flowering time from a personal perspective I added far read into my previous garden and noticed a week earlier flower development then from past gardens as well as you did touch on the Emerson effect with these 660 and 730 NM spectrum but I firmly feel that far red does promote earlier flower developments and hope that Bruce Is able to prove is data upon that
great stuff nice one shane!
timing is everything. far red in early veg, to get the branches to initially stretch for shaping/training the plant, then more blue, to get a compact canopy, then back to red for flowering.
KEvron
Great info I was starting to get a little confused with all the manufacturers jumping on the IR bandwagon. I am not growing lettuce here lol Thanks, Shane You have been a great source of information. I was reading 10 year old books on the subject before I found your channel. I appreciate you decoding all of this information and explaining it in a way that people can easily understand. Great job
Me too.. especially since most have only a single ir diodes., ive made a array from diodes and an arduino board.. added i.rv to the grow tent.. total cost was $6 the I.r market hype is adding way too much cost to justify the addition imo. :)
Grateful for your channel good stuff
thank you for this information
Good video 👍🏻 Quality information 🙏🏻 Thanks 🙏🏻
great vid shane love to follow cheers
This video solved my biggest problem. In an earlier grow I did, I added a RapidLED deep red flowering puck to my 2x4 tent. I had (2) closet case 100’s and I had major stretch when in flower. I thought all this time it was my closet case 100’s but now I’m thinking it was the additional far red. I’ll try it without the next grow and see. Thank you for the lesson. 👽👍
Yeah, you might have run it too much, and it better for already bushy Indica's that could use some stretching. Just use it for flower initiation first (10min far red only after dark starts), and don't use it during the "day" time, or just a little bit
Let me fix that description for you. "Thanks Dr. Bruce Bugbee for making this whole presentation and allowing me to copy your work, nearly word for word, for my own personal gain."
I got permission to publish his work from him directly and it is referenced as so.
It helps Cannabis to go to sleep... In the evening (and morning) the sun emits "more" red. 15min in the evening are enough for this... great channel. Greetings from a polish guy in germanistan
That is my understanding as well. Unfortunately, it’s only anecdotal.
Most people do 12/12 to induce flowering. Years ago I heard of an acquaintance of a friend in the 39-40 latitude of Northern California using a red light at sunset to induce flowering Blue Dream during the middle of summer, rather than pulling tarps in a light dep. Have you experimented with this? I’m curious how much and how long the light would need to be on, as well as what brand/intensity. I’m assuming 15 to 30 minutes in the evening would be a good starting point to test.
@@snowsurfr ...decrease the light last 2 weeks of flowering step by step down to 10/10.30h... And wait with watering sometimes as long as all leafs start hanging... Slowly watering... If soil or coco is used of course.... Maybe youre doing this already... If not, try... As in nature, the ladies will realize time is over soon(-;
@@snowsurfr ua-cam.com/video/sS7aAcacfgk/v-deo.html
@@cza1165 good ideas. Thank you!
Can you use far red at sunset to induce flowering in the middle of summer?
@@snowsurfr ...the dark period is crucial. Hope this is the right word. I know people doing a 12h night / 13h day... and last weeks they go down to 10/10.30h day... The darkness is important for the terps, decreasing sugar and more... What I can say definitely, LEDs with more red 660Nm - 730Nm "producing" more colourful buds... And maybe a little bit more. But the "more", if there is one, is insignificant I would say... Dont buy the cheapest LEDs if possible. Not every cheap is bad but Ive seen the difference....
Awesome vid, thanks :)
Great Video
Every days a school day! Cheers Shane
My evidence would suggest it cuts 7 to10 days off flower time when on for the last half hour of light 15 minutes either side. Meaning FR is on 15 minutes after lights out and 15 before lights out.
Very interesting. Is that still proving to be the case? 11 months later, are you still a fan of far red? Thanks
There may be no studies on this for cannabis, but after using a light with 1/4 of the wattage (800w light, 200w R:FR) going to R:FR (2:1) I've noticed at minimum 10 days faster flowering on every strain I've run thus far. On my 4th run and at 50 days I'm almost all cloudy.
Excellent informative video Shane. Whatcha got going on in the background? Do I see a lettuce side by side in the works? What most indoor gardeners are after is finished produce being "Sun Like". Especially growing crops like lettuce. How can you make a wrap with a bonsai sized Far-Red Deficient LED grown head of lettuce? For cannabis "compact" can me detrimental as well. Many genetics were bread to Stretch up to 3x during flip and that is where the yield comes from. Long branches with nuggets all the way down. That is the #1 complaint about most led's it that that bonsai the plant. That along with nutrient imbalances. Keep up the Great Work!
I wonder how much of an attempt has been made by the autoflower growers.
Love your channel, sir.
Thank you for doing what you do.
I’m Running Nextlight Mega Pros but also adding the new Nextlight plus pros and I’m almost certain I will be getting your UVB Bulbs for supplemental at the end of flower for terp production.
Just can’t get away from the far red, and I am running autoflowers as well as photos.
🤔
Great video.
Cheers 💨
I'm wondering the same.
Bonjour en tant que visionneurs français même un an après ta vidéo je te remercie pour la théorie que tu m'as appris, j'ai fait l'acquisition de barre à LED 90 cm infrarouge et ultraviolets de Cosmorrow, 🔥👌
Really appricate the work you put in for the public benefit.🙂
I'm thinking of setting up some microgreens/leafy greens for all year round personal food supply.
As I'm trying to see what would be the best way to do this on a budget do you thing it may be worth using far red LEDs to bulk up the yeald and make it value for money?
Thanks for all your work!
U da man Shane!
Thank you
great info as always, thank you! If I was going to add far red, as you say, it would be a small amount at the correct time to help start flowering, and then off. I wonder if a bit of far red with a bit of UV would help superboost at the end of flowering...
@Andrew Brent Yes, I've been looking into those. Unfortunately, can't get the agromax here in Canada, and any other suppliers that will bring it in are stupid expensive. Will likely be ordering some of the PowerVeg FS+UV.
I use it for 15 mins after lights out. I believe it puts the plants to sleep faster, so they are able the produce more Florigen and great vid Shane.
💯 Bro 👌
10
@@iritkanarik3815 no
I don't mean to be know it all, but you can check it out if you are a plant enthusiast. It's more of the type of crop you have. If you have a short day plant , an increased "dark time" that induces the flowering is not really because it "sleeps" or "rests". It's more of another photoreceptor, called phytochrome. They're quite similar to chlorophyll, wherein it absorbs certain kinds of wavelength, in this case, it's capable of absorbing red and far-red. Unlike chlorophyll however, it's purpose is not to produce energy, but to determine and signal that it's time for a developmental phenomena (e.g. flowering, germination, shade avoidance, etc.). How? Well it depends on the light composition. When red light is abundant (bright), phytochrome takes the "Pfr" form which is flower inducing to long day plants but flower inhibiting to short day plants. When far-red is abundant which is typical under darkness, phytochrome takes the "Pr" form, which in this case is flower inducing to short day and inhibiting to long day plants. Cryptochromes, blue light absorbing receptors, play also a crucial role to flower induction, they can also be a something on their own but also highly intertwined with phytochromes. How the plant translates this to the florigen production is a whole lot (and diverse)of processes from protein and genome interaction. It's an extensive field, but a lot remains elusive even within the scientific community. :)
730 nm??
Missed this vid...At last that's far red cleared up 🍻
I’m a Harley smith fan, he says far red light is most effective on long day flowering plants at the end of the day rather than during the day. His reasoning for this was that in nature that’s when there’s the most far red light. I don’t know if this is correct but it’s what I remember hearing
Love Harley Smith!
Seems good for cucumbers then,I'm gunna try that this year to get the stalk going
Great info thanks so much. With all your studies what grow lights do you say would be best for cannabis that has the far red spectrum??? Thanks again
Watching you from Guam USA thank you was using a lot of red and yes very true marijuana leaves bigger and got taller
Love it
Good job 👏, great info as always. I don’t believe you can completely rule out effects on a plant that has so many different adaptations. Cool new tool👀 excited to see what tests/comparisons it can be used for. ✊🙏✌️ I think comparing the % and ratio to create maps of a lighting source that could give an idea of how it might affect their crops 👏 Spectral manipulation to feed the world 🌍👍🏻 rather than genetic modification. 😁
I wish you would put out a video with more info on the migro veg vs migro 100
Another great video Shane. But I have a question what about the electric sky being used to grow cannabis? They do have high amounts of far red don't they.
Emerson effect ( eg .deep red 660 nm-IR 730 combo) is similar to having blue.. the ir kind of cancels out the streach.
It also affects stem thickness..
And we know that nutrients are using the skin tissue to travel...
From what I gathered ....
the front-to-back pacing really helps my adhd
i add a tiny amount primarilly for emerson effect. 7 watts of my 248 watts drawn is far red, only 3% a bit more if i dim my main 3500k cobs but I have no issue with plants stretching since its well within that safe range. I also run it last 15 minutes to try and trigger phytochrome switch or trigger "sleep" in plants, but running 11 on 13 off i dont think there is huge benefit to it in shortening flower period. I hear it can allow indoor flowering under 13 or 14 hours light which is a benefit/goal many growers want out of it.. but ive yet to try/likely won't as I prefer 11/13 and am not in a huge rush to shave a few days off each cycle as a homegrower
Need to get those fans tucked up into the horizontal corners! ✌😁
I'd love to see an experiment solely using light outside the traditional par range. Like 350nm uv light in one chamber, far red 730nm and maybe another far red 850nm.
Good studies at Utah State. Been doing my first experiment with lots of far red. Yes, my plants are stretched, but the buds fill in all that streched out space, leaving large nugs all over my best plant. Not only that, my tricombs are almost double in size from my last grow with UV. The main test will be the product quality. If you buy a normally small auto flower, I'm guessing with far red, it will not be a small plant, it will increase the size by double.
I wonder how you feel 2 years and many tests after these comment. Are you still convinced by IR ?
@@drexb5213 finding that high blues with far red work best for a dense bud. High ratios of phosphorus will create large amounts of biomass, which I think is good, for extraction. @ Matthews Medicinals
@@m.feaver960 thanks for taking time to share !
I add far red at sun up and sun down for 3 hours so far they love it.
And what do you grow
@@Kirt44 potatoes
Urban mith from '90 in my hood, far red is used to make roots stronger😂
had far red 740nm on my homemade led in a micro chamber for several years,
because i'm an epistemologist, not a scientist. seen plant after plant grow straight up to it. i'd also use IR if i built another one.
In Woodland, Bluebells flowering is triggered by %far-red which increases as leaves develop on the trees above. As you explained, far red travels through leaves, thus the full canopy forest has high far red at ground level!
Theory: Establish a good canopy with your plants and keep your hands away from removing Lower leaves until flowering has been established, for a few weeks, at lower nighttime temperature = less stretch more yeild.
*yes*
Hello , thank you for sharing this but i believe that i have a total different perspective on that subject.Let me elaborate ill put also to the "for" section that u actually get a week faster on higher percentage of far red thats a plus for cannabis at least from a manufacturing perspective.Also u are actually seeing far red as a solo acting light and thats what mcree did but he had no gear or tech. i think that if u regulate the uv and blue percentage u can find a sweet spot and have the same or even better results. Lets say its even on yield and you add co2 and help the metabolism and we know it was a week early from the previous study that shows me faster metabolism of the plant in general so the additional co2 would lead to additional photosynthesis that would led to bigger plant biger overall mass and thats for me more yield.also on your "against" i would say that there is no mass production on far red so the chips are expensive and not putting that much out but i believe the market will get there as it happened with the white led chips 2 years ago. Lm301b nice chip effective and cheap but its on a production line.and if there is cell expansion why it would stop at leaves ? buds dont have cells? Its not my field of expertise but i read alot of articles and studys especially dr bugbee cause i think his research atm is top at his field.I believe we will see the first results in a month or so and will have alot of testing for companys producing cannabis in the us at least.Love to hear your opinions on the subject.Awesome videos and also would like to ask u what do u prefer atm as far as tech goes strips to cover evenly the area or board like designs?
P.s Another food for thought as i would like to say . uv according to bugbee study is absorbed and the plant start to get a tolerance to it producing more trichoma etc so if we find the sweet spot on that and make a more resin trichoma plant and then we cross it again with another pheno with the same plus charachteristics wouldnt that give us a plant with higher resin and trichoma production?
Either way cell expansion in bud probably isn’t favourable unless u want airy buds but sped up metabolism accompanied with the increase of far red like u said would be beneficial and something I wouldn’t mind experimenting with
I wish there was more information on the effect on terpenes with far red and uv
the key to this is knowing when to use a specific spectrum, stack the nodes tight in veg(lots of blue) and when you switch to flower turn on the reds for a bit(first 1-2 weeks)and stretch the girls and get some space between all them nodes and then hit her full spec when shes got buds growing~ been doing this with my 2000w Sayhon. they use IR and UV. a GREAT light
the light also creates a crazy amount of tricomes
I know this is an old comment but its exactly what I needed to read. Thank you.
love your vids but i'm getting sea sick!
It would be very interesting to see how and if red lasers can boost the efficiency. You can get very cheap 5V 20mA 660nm laser line modules. If you screw off the lens, it becomes a lot wider and more even although still rather narrow beam, but how would these compare to a 660nm top bin diode? I’ve started experimenting with the this wide red laser line placed 1m above the canopy. It turns on 20 min before lights out and turns off 10 min after lights out. I’m thinking it could be very useful for bloom initiator and/or bloom enhancer. Would love to see some measurements!
At 6:16 i think only photoperiod cannabis was taken into account. But autoflowers use around 18 hours of light per day, so infrared should help with flowering of autoflowers.
Hi Shane, have you ever done any experiments by introducing far red (~730nm), just before day end and again at start of day cycle? Some reports saying this simulates sunset and sunrise to the plant. Helps plant get to sleep a lot quicker (vastly simplifying the photochemical reactions of the plant) and wake up faster. Pro grow tip I’ve read too. If so, can you recommend a bulb? Thanks.
a grow shop selling a bulb that's not any good for 'short day plants) lol, I never thought I would see the day :)
What do you think about harvesting under far red spectrum. I've read that after a dark period plants tend to have a sweeter taste etc. Since the far red put them to sleep would it be safe to assume that waking them up to an hour of far red and another short dark cycle would enhance this effect even further and more efficiently. 🤔
Has your opinion on far-red changed? I see your new light comes with a far-red option.
No far reds on his light, only extra deep red 660nm for higher efficiency
What about how IR affects plants during dark cycle? Like an IR security camera per say? Any Information on that?
If you add in additional UV with your IR would it help the photosynthetic ability of the normal PAR grow light. Given the other variables like nutrients and total environment were fair.
Just when I plant in sun they stretch massively. Its what I do to get a little stretch to fin the area pot.
How about growing microgreens? Would giving them more far red at the beginning be good to make them stretch faster? And then less far red at the end to make the greens more compact?
Good summary. You could have added the fact that LEDs are pretty efficient for producing far-red photons. Coupled with the Emerson effect it can potentially increase Photosynthetic Photon Efficiency up to 3 to 4 micromoles per Joule. Also quick comment : if you could not moving as much while talking, or at least if the camera was stable, the viewer could have even a better experience. Great video otherwise !
Love u videos,wot would be the best led to use for growing
If you’d aim for enhancing flower size of a plant which a cannabis grower might want. Would it be beneficial to add far red radiation during the flower period only? I would imagine that you could get a nice compact growth during veg and then kick it off with extra levels of far red.
How might this play out for sprouting plants during the cotyledons stage? With the look out on microgreens which are tightly sown. Could far red result in a more even groth? If you Push density, there are often sprouts left behind below the canopy which can start rotting.
Would the extra UV in the CMH 3000K offset the 8% far red? Love your channel by the way!
I'd like to know this myself . I have a light as seen on my channel that has to attachable uv-ir Bars and a button to turn them on but it turns on UV and IR both. Also my light GIVES A FULL LIVE SPECTRUM TV screen built-in
Autoflowers are 'neutral day' plants. We extend their flowering day to 18-24 hrs of full spectrum light but we reduce PAR so their DLI's are similar. Does Far Red impact neutral day auto's the same way it impacts short day photos? I wonder if fast autos react to Far Red like long day plants and slow autos react to Far Red like short day photos?
you the man bronado, can we get a qb 288 lm 301h inch by inch/cm by cm, par ratings for the guys that cannot afford the hack? after being broken in, maybe an average loss of 4 - 10% effeciency. so many people looking for the best at a reasonable cost.
This is probably why out door plants don't need to be defoliated
Which meter are you using I need one that goes up to far red for testing my LED creations
I love this channel...I have a shout out to you on my channel. Thank you for the abundance of knowledge, love all your videos❤️
I wonder if the increase in cell size is due to the increase of leaf surface temperature from the far red photons?
Time to upgrade the Migro
So I've also read that adding far red can cause shade avoidance syndrome. Do you know anything about that?
DE HPS with the Ceramic HPS bulbs. You need a loan to buy them but that far red is extremely effective in increasing bud density. Dont put glass over the bulbs as you wouldn't with CMH, you lose the UV & some real far reds
What app was he using to measure light spectrum above and below the canopy?
So this video begs the question what does this mean for the ES 180 V2 or the 300 watt version because I have the 180 V2 and I have to say I do get a bit of stretching but I still get solid flowers.But this video makes me wonder alot because as you said all indoor growers want more compact flowers with better density does the electric sky in your opinion fall into the light category that causes to much stretching?
No.