The White Liberal Paradox: Kurtis Conner, Kuncan Dastner & Racial Commentary
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- At least on a bi-annual basis, a (white) influencer’s old Tweets or, in this case, an old image resurfaces online that showcases some past bigoted behaviors. When this occurs, commentary/ video essay channels push out videos discussing the event , condemning it (depending on what side on UA-cam you’re on) and critiquing the apology. Notably, most of the commentary geared at condemnation is led by other white influencers-and while this is not inherently an issue for me, I believe there are so many things that go unsaid. When we’re talking about these sorts of bigoted acts-things that have been normalized in our cultures-there is much more to contend with than just that one influencer themselves.
Long-time friend of Kurtis Conner, Dean Hebscher has recently come under fire (again) due to a 2014 photo featuring himself in a wildly inappropriate and derogatory costume being unearthed. Many fans of Kurtis began to question his integrity for keeping a friend who seems to have some problematic tendencies. In response to this, commentator Kuncan Dastner (Duncan) created a video analyzing the connection between friends, personal responsibility and integrity.
In this video, we will utilize Duncan’s video as a way to explore some of my issues with how situations like this are often addressed. Join the conversation, and enjoy!
Other Required Readings:
Nickisnotgreen’s Response to the SuperMega Controversy is…Interesting • Nickisnotgreen’s Respo...
Colleen Ballinger: When the Mask Slips • Colleen Ballinger: Whe...
Patience Xina: Moderatism as a Disguise for Conservatism? • Patience Xina: Moderat...
Noah Samsen, Patience Xina & The Little Mermaid Debacle • Noah Samsen, Patience ...
Unpacking iDubbbz's Apology • Unpacking iDubbbz's Ap...
Have video ideas or suggestions? Email me! unpoeticjusticecontact@gmail.com
Information regarding the discrimination of Romani people
www.errc.org/roma-rights-journ...
Please check the sources document below for all materials mentioned in the video
docs.google.com/document/d/1V...
Video Chapters
0:00 Introduction
2:48 Individualized Racism v Cultural Racism
11:51 Marginalized People’s “Silence”
28:06 Assuming Responsibility
34:05 White Liberal Paradox
35:58 Conclusion - Розваги
Hey guys! In this video, I reference the term "g*psy" when discussing a trend centered on the appropriation of Romani culture in the United States. You guys have been absolutely wonderful with this correction: this term is considered a slur. My initial understanding was that it's considered derogatory when used towards or against a Romani person, but you guys have emailed me additional articles and op-eds surrounding the discussion of the term in and of itself. My apologies towards Romani people and anyone who may have been offended. Thank you guys for keeping me honest and correcting my ignorance. It's always appreciated.
It's kind of ironic because it goes to the core of this video: we are all ignorant to something, and the people graciously expanding our limited understandings is how we achieve change and growth.
I feel like opions on that term are always so conflicting. I've met so many people irl who are fine with it/use it self referentially.
@CreativeC13 yes in the UK its used, along with traveller, depending if its romani or irish travellers. So its a bit confusing. Also our country as a whole looks down on irish travellers specifically and it all seems to get mixed in together with a lot of hate and prejudice against them here.
this is how you do an apology. not berating yourself and making yourself victim, not doubling down. just a nice respectful apology where you adresses what you learned instead.
Speaking on the majority, We're a resilient people and words do not bother us usually. There are a lot of people claiming to be Romani now because of white guilt. LOL! Many of us are pale so, I don't understand that. It's how we are treated, that can be a problem. Should someone scream "gypsy scum" at me, I keep walking, as they are clearly suffering and need help. The more we react negatively to the word, the more people use it against us.
😂😂😂 this isn't kindergarten. I have more problems in life than worrying about a "slur" said from a random person who I don't know and will never care to know
That woman using a really gross slur for Chinese people while talking about not being offended by Jenna’s video was WILD
yeah, gosh. she just blurted that out so casually.
I gagged!!!!
i suppose she could be ignorant to the power of that word? but yeah, it WAS shocking for sure
Edited (for context):
First of all, I am East Asian myself.
Secondly, I am not saying it was acceptable, an excuse, or that she shouldn’t be held accountable - just that ignorance could be why she felt so comfortable throwing that word around.
Acknowledging ignorance doesn’t mean we are justifying it or normalizing it. We are just humanizing it, and acknowledging that individuals shouldn’t be shunned for life if they make a genuinely ignorant mistake. *(*The premise of this video*)*
That doesn’t mean they are absolved of responsibility, just that we shouldn’t dehumanize, and hate that person for the rest of their lives because they didn’t know better.
I understand the odds that she probably knew the power of the word she was using, but on the off chance she didn’t - THAT’s what my comment was meant to point out.
@@hanacinnabunNah she should know better. Idk where she grew up but from my experience growing up mainly around Black folks in the states (as one myself) we didnt go around casually referring to Asians as that slur.
There is anti-Asian bigotry of course but the worst stuff I heard was mistaking every east asian person for "Chinese", not throwing around racial slurs like they are legit ethnicity labels. 😫
@@hanacinnabunwow. even if she was ignorant to the nature of the word, you wouldnt be offering someone saying the n-word the same grace. pretty telling how society couldn’t care less about Asian people.
You pointing out the use of “they” during apologies intended for white audiences was gold!!! I always knew something rubbed me the wrong way about that phrasing you absolutely nailed it 💅🏼✨🫡
I don't understand why people like Dean don't catch things like that at least while their editing 😭 Like, at least address the apology to the people who were used as the butt of your "joke"
wow this is such a great point. implicit bias
In addition to not framing the apology towards the harmed party (Black people) the use of they ALSO seems to 'other' himself from that party, imo. It's a two-fer. I might not have picked up on this without the note!
I thought that was one of her weaker arguments. And I agree with a lot.
I feel like within the context of what he said, "they" made sense tho? If he said "black people are not costumes, _you_ are not characters" it'd be a lot stranger, right?
That woman not even flinching while casually using c***k to refer to Asian people is…. Wow. That gave me a double take
RIGHT?? Like I had to rewind, that caught me totally off guard oml
Its a very common double standard I see with Americans. Oppressed groups oppressing other oppressed groups and thinking its okay.
No literally... I was like??? Also her saying "black face was not a thing back then". UHHH yes it was cause people did and it's in textbooks.
I was literally eating cherios and just stared at the wall for a good 20 seconds with my jaw dropped after I heard that
@@aubreyirene4059not saying that you’re wrong but textbooks aren’t always a reliable source. we can just look into period media to see that blackface was indeed already a thing
Holy shit i cant even take that clip of dean apologizing seriously 😂. I felt like my man was struggling to even conceptualize what he was apologizing for
😭 He does seem confused lmaoo
he's made a severe
and continuous
lapse in his judgment (
I was only listening when the clip played so I deadass thought it was satire until I looked at the screen and dropped my jaw 😂
Its so uncomfortable 😫😫
@@ember9361 right like that's not what lapse means? also why do influencers always say that when it has not landed once
i wonder if Duncan would have the same stance of 'if you've ever done something racist, never be a public figure' if it was about someone who's not white? as a taiwanese person, i know first hand how racist asian parents can commonly be (very). is he gonna start cancelling the majority of asian influencers (especially if they're close to their culture and/or born in their home country)? lol
That's the exact point that I want to see people grapple with: all racially marginalized groups have in-group biases, and those biases can sometimes lead to prejudices towards others being formed. Does that mean they should be unable to have a platform? It's such a ridiculous thought to me that is clearly led by the perception that only white people have room to learn and grow
@@UnpoeticJusticeI'm white but have grown up in many environments where most people weren't, and I've never understood the mentality that some liberal white people have when dealing with racial and/or caste bigotry from minorities. I grew up in India and our landlords who were otherwise very nice people and not even Hindu's treated the other, lower caste, tenants as stupid, lazy children that were beneath them for no reason other than that was how the society operated when they were children. It just reeks of ignorance and lack of actual interest in fighting prejudice when white liberals have such visceral reactions to white, straight and male bigotry, know all the "right" terminology and ideas around it, but don't have any knowledge of nor any interest in other forms of prejudice whatsoever.
@@VagabondRetroit's called racism
Yeah it was weird to me that he said that
I'm white and liberal, and there's a sort of guilt we feel about being white so we get mad at other white people who seem to take advantage of their whiteness to do stupid shit. So, I assume he wouldn't.
I'm Indian and my sister who's an English major has so many instances in class where all the white people will look at her as if she's an authority on black media because she's usually the only colored person in her classes. She told me about this time when they were reading HP Lovecraft and pretty much everyone in class was SUPER vocal about how they found his racism offensive and how they were morally against him and all that. And my sister, who loves HP Lovecraft's work, was super confused because she's like "Hey, most writers that are universally loved were pretty racist. Like Shakespeare and Charles Dickens and stuff, so why is this one different?" And everyone got really quiet and changed the subject. This happens to her on average like 3 times a week.
Lovecraft's work has enjoyed a pretty big following on the internet and is often cited as a source of inspiration for movies and video games. I think he's much more of a pop culture icon for a lot of people than Shakespeare or Dickens. So that might be why the white kids were acting so outraged by him specifically, it's because his work has pervaded mainstream, contemporary media that they enjoy in a way that Shakespeare and Dickens don't anymore
@solarprogeny6736 Shakespeare still influences modern media far more, it's just less directly/further down the line. But yeah Lovecraft is definitely directly referenced as an inspiration more.
The number one academic scholar of Lovecraft happens to be Indian
Well, a huge amount of Lovecraft's work is euphemistic in nature for uh, 🤡the horrors of race-mixing🤡 So, that's why.
HP Lovecraft's application to his local chapter of the KKK was denied because he was so terrible that he'd make them look bad. He didn't think of colored people as human. It's not comparable to other writers who were racist simply because of their surroundings. Lovecraft was a good writer but, damn, he was racist
This type of moral absolutism reminds me of how ppl on TikTok are saying if your family members have problematic opinions you should cut contact immediately and if you don’t you’re bigoted and wrong… no matter who they are or how bad their opinions are
This exactly. The idea that you can't even trust the people you love to change is like saying nobody is capable of change. Absurd as hell....
Some people on the internet are saying something absurd?😮
Perpetually online people are not most people
Sounds genuinely cultish
Yeah, this is a legitimate cult/abuser tactic. Isolate people from any outside voices that don’t conform with the cult or abusers ideology.
It’s also just gross when the left pretends like we’re the only side sitting on all the facts. We are also going to have our own biases and the only way to realize them is by speaking with people who disagree with us. Full stop. There is no other way.
I’m white and non-American (I’m not even a native English-speaker), so please correct if I’m wrong, but isn’t Duncan’s mindset of “I’ve done nothing wrong, my parents raised me right” extremely dangerous? Because no matter how good your values are, we live in a society. I know I’ve always been careful, but I know I’ve said hurtful things because I wasn’t aware they were hurtful and course corrected. And I’ve called out people on things they never thought were offensive, and they course corrected. And I’m always trying to keep me on check. Duncan’s narrative that he’s perfect and has never failed, makes me think he’s convinced he can do no wrong (which usually means they will do it).
It is ! When he said he'd never done anything wrong in his life that would lead him to be canceled, I didn't believe him. When someone says that, it's almost impossible that they're right... Everyone was once young and stupid. And I get the impression that he's taking the liberty of talking about a subject he feels superior to because he's "never done anything wrong". I consider my parents to have raised me well, but they have their faults. My father is homophobic and borderline racist, but that wasn't wrong to me because nobody blamed him and he was suppose to be a "perfect" human to lil me. I grew up repeating words that I didn't understand and that most likely hurt people's feelings. Now I'm 24 and I understand the impact of my mistakes. If I follow Duncan's logic, well... that makes me a bad person and I should stay in the shadows forever. Wtf o.o How are people supposed to grow up if they don't get a "second chance"? His video is so odd..
Yeah he is also implying that if you were raised by shitty people, you can never grow past it. His take on that feels really classist. Like, if your early education was bad, you don't *deserve* to grow and must always be subservient to those who are better than you.
This is a good observation. I don't want to be like "this is the perfect look at it from a white perspective" but this is really quite the good, constructive look at it. It's an internalizing of these structures and believing he on his own can make a change. Which is unrealistic because it's systematic. In essence it's an element of the white saviour belief, and him having that could greatly harm any proper acknowledgement of his own wrongdoings before or even to come
Non English native speaker and also white here!
My parents were leftists (well my mom is, my father was a mystery, guy sure enjoyed his conspiracy theories) but they were not perfect (glad he was absent so I’m not wearing a tinfoil hat rn). My mom taught me about the importance of democracy and women’s rights and I’ve taught her to be more intersectional.
All I kept thinking was “you’ve done nothing wrong YET”. Because things change and especially online very quickly so what once was considered “right” can be dug up a few years later and be used as criticism.
Yeah that was very bad argument. Even if your parents raised you “right” we ALL have blind spots and harm is inevitable. It’s such a stagnant mindset.
"We can _pretend_ that we're equals legally, but culturally....you know where you belong"
I appreciate this line. Cause folks looove to act like the entire legal system has panned out to be fair to everyone
"I'm sick of black people always complaining about civil rights as if we aren't experiencing the BEST era of equality ever"
As if........most of the people in the prison system aren't black folks 😑
And all of them are poor.
But more of the crime in America is statistically caused by black people so wouldn't it make sense that prisons are filled with them? Or does American prisons need to hit a diversity quota?
@@NotVille_are you demented
it's a bot @@leavemeal0ne378
@@leavemeal0ne378is a bot, ignore it lol
(I usually watch videos discussing myself through my hands with my anxiety amped all the way up, but I was so engrossed in this video I'd already subscribed when I reached the 50% mark and remembered I was about to be brought up involved)
I can't thank you enough for making this video, this is the criticism I always try and seek out, and I appreciate all the steps you took in dissecting what I said and contextualizing with your broader points! You are absolutely correct in my tone of 'zero exceptions' I took in this video because I was thinking of public figures like Kurtis and Dean relying on those, and you were right to stretch that apart to include interpersonal friendships and helping others grow. I do also see how the entire bit I speak on myself reflecting can come across as extremely self-condemning, I wish I had emphasized the point of it being an exercise I wanted to see more of with creators and friends, and not a "Me Me Me" intermission.
Short story long - thank you for making these points highlighted to me, and I want to dedicate myself towards unlearning those personal heated emotions I had on display. To Justice - if you want to reach out via social media or even email and discuss these ideas further with me, I am more than willing to listen to more of what you have to say. And for everyone else - even just replying to this comment with advice or suggestions on what I can do better would mean a lot to me, I'm going to do my best to read them all.
Again- thank you. I'm staying subscribed too, so I can't wait for the next one! - K
💀
It's great that you took this video to heart, but maybe the comments of another UA-camr's video aren't the best place to do your self-reflection and unlearning. Any time I've tried to do my growing/ self-reflecting publicly in real time I've gotten caught up on my own self image more than actually solidifying my understanding of why I needed to unlearn what I did. Maybe that's just a me thing, but just remember actual change is more important than proving right away that you're trying really hard to and will. Best of luck however you proceed.
@@auditoryoddity7060⬆️
I don't think many people would seek out content about themselves so that is highly commendable.
As for your tone, it seems to have positively reached many people (I've seen your comment section, lol). But as we all know, I was personally offput by it. So, sometimes is comes down to a personal choice of keeping a tone that may be authentic to you or attempting to please a critical crowd. I would recommend the former, but clarify your meaning and try to address counter arguments at the same time. If your perspective is "blackface has no nuance", then I would recommend expanding on "why". Your platform captures a totally different audience from mine, so that's why I think it's imperative to keep your tone, just with some caveats. My audience is notably highly cynical and a bit pessimistic, which probably matches my vibes. Yours seems more sentimental, and I think you should 100% retain that.
Our goals are, inevitably, the same: encourage people to think of things from a different perspective. We have different styles of doing that, and that's okay. But I assume you're good person, your audience knows you're a good person, you never need to tell us, and I do understand that the intent of was self reflection. But the notions of your caring about this subject showed throughout your video. You have nothing to prove because it was already shown. At least to me, and many members of your audience.
Definetely agree this is probably not the best place to get advice on this. But as I've seen other comments and it was my thoughts too. I know you said you struggled with mental illness before esp anxiety, do you know if you got OCD as well ?
Because if you do lots of us with OCD seemed to see your "reflection exercise" as more in more line with intrusive thoughts and ruminations than something that could be productive. Introspection in general is good but the way you described it, if it's recurring I would genuinely advise looking into it and if moral OCD is a thing you can potentially recognize. I know I have it and it tends to associate fear or stress to just having strong opinions on matters concerning racism and systemic issues in general. Which can encourage avoidance of the topics overall or to compulsively pile on or demonstrate with evidence or emotional intensity how strongly I feel about something. It is because I genuinely care but it's also because I feel I need to prove to myself that I care. Which is fine in theory but in a practical sense, that tends to be when mistakes are made cuz anxiety and fear can alter perception and understanding, having good judgement or making sure to consider the bigger picture.
If that don't apply to you, don't take it, but it's just a thought and could be a lead I guess.
Other than that maybe just in general make it more clear things are your perspective and opinions and therefore suggestions ? Not really a universal truth/"right take" on things, you're just passionate so you're gonna come accross as passionate. I think that vibe didn't really hit in that video.
Toxic Jenna fans who say she did absolutely nothing wrong ironically dismiss all the growth she went through over the years. I genuinely believe (as someone who watched her since I was in middle school) that she actually changed, which is something that a lot of “cancelled” UA-camrs haven’t done. She deserves the critique and she deserves to have had the opportunity to change, which she did. I hope I worded this as well as I needed to. Really appreciate your insight on this! A lot of people on the internet seem to be allergic to nuance 😭 edit: okay what the flip is duncan going on about rn 😭😭😭 “I don’t go to parties i am not racist I am a perfect white boy”
Totally agree about Jenna. I think she’s a great example of what it actually means to learn. She also demonstrated her learning in the video, not hiding from what she did but instead showing it and why it was wrong
Yeah, I don’t really like the narrative that “she was FORCED to apologize because of CANCEL CULTURE,” basically painting her as a victim with no agency. People trying to defend her in that way end up shooting themselves in the foot because it takes away the fact that she actually CHOSE to make the apology. I’m east asian (idk if that means anything lol, I know I can’t speak for everyone) and I felt like Jenna’s apology was one of the few actually genuine ones on youtube.
Cant disagree more; I get that you watched her, but idk how you can call yourself a fan while justifing her literally ending her youtube carreer because of all the hatred she recieved. As you said, she already had apologized, changed and addressed the issue but people just never let go. I would love to see if any of yall has ever made a mistake, apologized for it and changed your behaviour, but still got fired from your job. She was one of the real ones and people drove her away for one tiny scandal, while people like James Charles, Jake Paul or Shane Dawson still have a platform. We never deserved Jenna and we will never get one like her.
@@lomin8 I don’t believe that her past videos was the only reason why she ultimately quit UA-cam as a whole. If you watched her videos leading up to her leaving the platform you could tell she felt unmotivated to create new videos, was extremely critical of herself for participating in the “culture of distraction”, and she talked about struggling with self care by staying up late and battling insomnia. I do think that her taking accountability for not only posting those videos and being friends with Shane did contribute to her heavy self criticism. I’m glad she took accountability and I think her mental health was suffering due to how hypercritical she became of herself towards the end. She seems a lot happier now since being offline and I’m genuinely happy she did was best for herself.
@@Bubblies005 absolutely, can't agree more with the fact that she was beggining to show burnout and talked about it, it's just a shame, you know, with this particular case I feel like people targeted the wrong person. She always was very sweet and you could tell she wasn't a bigot. I guess to me it felt like one of those cases of inoncents paying for the sins of the sinners (although I'm not excusing her with the issue). But surely she is in a much better place now and thats good for her (and the doggos).
We just lost a great content creator, but you are right, we won a healthier and overall happier Jenna, even if we can't enjoy her anymore.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who found elements of Duncan's video very strange. His whole section about people with racist past should never have public lives just didn't feel rooted in any meaningful analysis of harm. Trust me I'm not caping for white people who had a racist phase in high school but I mean we live in a world where people literally convicted of hate crimes are movie stars. To act as if every former edgy white boy shouldn't make youtube videos feels kinda absurd.
Hard agree ❤️ We can't fight intolerance with intolerance
It feels very holier than thou. “I would never have done the racist thing so he should’ve also known not to do the racist thing and therefore he shouldn’t have a public platform”. Not all people are born into the same environment where you have immediate access to progressive ideas. Speaking from my own experience, I live in a fairly progressive country politically speaking and when I was younger I didn’t know any better than that we had it all figured out. But as I grew up I realized how little I knew about how racism manifests in the world because while we’re progressive, we’re also overwhelmingly white. There weren’t enough voices speaking out about the blatant racism present in our society and those that were there were drowned out by an ocean of white liberalism. So I wouldn’t be surprised if I partook in racist action in my past that I simply wasn’t made aware of.
@@handsoaphandsoap 100% it's this weird purity testing bullshit that at the end of the day doesn't actually address racism. Ultimately I care more about how people move in the world right now than the stuff they did in the past.
I'm black and unoffemded😂😂 no seriously tho a guy like this Duncan guy is an over correction, but this is rare. Edgelords being sliced by their own edginess seems to happen once a week. My question is since they've shown their ass, what have they done to show growth? Often there's nothing tangible to show.
I thought I was the only one!! LOL It's so important to call out people while leaving them room to grow and learn from their mistakes!:)
Kuncan really said “I have thoroughly investigated myself and concluded that I have never done anything offensive.”
And we should believe him because? 💀💀💀
That’s the point of these white liberal “saviors”
right. white people usually don't realize when they've offended or hurt people of marginalized groups bc of their own privilege. just bc he never did blackface or said any slurs doesn't mean that there's absolutely no one he's ever hurt in his whole damn life
I've only had exposure to Dean and Kurtis before this video and I've never been a huge fan of Dean whatsoever, but I think I am more offended by this boy's self aggrandized ego. The unsubstantiated moral high horse is so ick 🤢
When I watched Duncan's video, I kept waiting for him to use a qualifier like "I've never offended anyone (on a large, public scale)" or "I've never done anything wrong (and had photo/text evidence survive)" but no, he really just said he's never offended anyone or done anything wrong
White person here. Thank you for pointing out when Dean says “they” in the apology. I didn’t catch that when I first watched it, and it makes it clear he’s talking to a white audience. It’s an important detail to call out, and for me it’s helpful because I can think about my own implicit biases when I watched the apology the first time. Great video! 💙
growing up with european parents in america, i didn’t realize how baked-into-our-language-habits romani hate was. i was saying slurs as synonyms for other words with no thought behind it because i genuinely didn’t realize they were referring to any group of people specifically, let alone derogatorily (especially the word that means “to steal/trick”). when i got to college and continued using the word casually, my best friend paused uncomfortably and told me it was a slur. my head was spinning from realizing i’d unknowingly perpetuated that for twenty years, and my whole idea of who i was as an accepting and kind person started to crack. honestly, in retrospect, that’s what i’m most embarrassed by, because the impact was not even remotely supposed to center around me. we all have to learn, teach others that taught us incorrectly, and move forward. that will mean infinitely more to romani people than me becoming a self-flagellating recluse. to continue centering *yourself* rather than centering *education, harm reduction, and empathy* is the trap all productive lefties have to figure out.
Well at least you understood and changed, that’s refreshing 😅
That clip of the woman reacting to Jenna and going "blackface didn't even exist back then" ("then" being like 2010) cracked me up. Like I'm sorry what? Blackface was just invented because everyone is so sensitive?
Like racism didn’t exist prior to 2010? I needed her to be fr
She doesn’t seem like the brightest bulb…
that actually had my eyes popping out of my head 😭 how do you live that blindly yk
In Duncan’s video it almost felt like he seemed more upset that Dean was choosing to be in the public eye despite his racists past than he was upset at the racist acts themselves
Yeeee, I smell a sense of guilt in Duncan somewhere lol
This comment fr
He's not mad the guy was racist he's mad the guy gives another bad name to white men
It seems like some sort of weird jealousy thing/he's mad he's not getting rewarded for doing the bare minimum... Like he's mad that they're both creators and he's been working hard to be not racist or something, when it turns out you can be racist and also still be a creator.
@MrJeanPaulBeaubier totes. Unfortunately all of the comments on that video are in support of him. Maybe because he threatened to block any dissenters lol yikers
This situation reminded me of a former coworker I had who I slowly became friends with. One day she brought up some kind of conspiracy theory and not being a fan of discussing them, I joked "Not a fan of most conspiracy theories because if you dig too far they just become about how the Jews are behind it." She, however, then springboarded on there to regurgitate some surface-level takes from the anti-Semitic iceberg.
Now, I am partially descended of Jewish people, but I didn't really lay into her, partly because I was the elder of us, and partly because the naive earnestness she expressed her "worries" about Jewish elites seemed genuine. Rather than call her personally out for it, I instead asked her if she'd be okay with me telling her a bit of history. She said yeah, so I told her a summary of the history of anti-Semitism in Europe and its colonies.
The destruction of the temple, the diaspora, the pogroms, the "Red Jew" conspiracies of the late Medieval period, the Spanish Inquisition, its manifestations in Colonialism, the Zionist conquest of Palestine, and finally the lead into WWII and the Nazis. One thing I stressed was the convenience of Jewish people as a target, their unique culture, different-but-similar religion, and languages leading to an alienation that made them easy enemies for the powerful to just straight up lie about.
I don't know if she "really" changed, but when I finished she said "wow, that's a lot" and then every shift after that she'd come over and ask an additional question about Jewish history or another similar subject. I do genuinely think that hearing it, in person, from someone she knew and not from a stranger making a comment was a big help to her not dismissing the information.
She never said anything anti-Semitic, but I moved away a few months later so who knows, maybe she's back to it. Hard to tell, but I'd prefer that.
I do hope she changed for the better! It's really cool that you took the time to do that
When this video first popped up on my Recommended, I was really scared to watch it 'cause I had no clue about the whole Dean situation with Kurtis Conner, and I'm a happy citizen of Kurtistown, so I was really worried that something would be revealed to me that would make me regret my citizenship.
But I really appreciate how you went over the whole controversy and the even bigger response, and the even bigger-er culture that lends itself to controversies like these. I found that at my own pace, I was easily able to follow you and your points, and came to the realization that I really valued your input on the situation!
Keep making great content like this! I'm glad that I decided to overcome my concern and enlighten myself.
Same! Had me worried lol 😓
very grateful for this comment!! i was searching in the comments trying to find ANYONE talking about kurtis because i was scared LOL… this convinced me to give this video a chance. watching it now- thank you!!
Tbh I'm just glad Kurtis didn't do something fucked up. Had me scared for a second
i’m happy i found your channel, I watch kurtis conner and a lot of other ‘leftist’ commentators and you help me see different perspectives without having to go to the complete opposite side
I appreciate that! I never try to tear down another creator even when I'm disagreeing with them or their approach, so I'm glad that's coming thru a bit since I share audience members with people I've critiqued, like Kuncan Dastner and nickisnotgreen.
exactly my thoughts too!! so glad i found this
i don’t think i would go as far as calling kurtis a “leftist creator” though, he has left leaning values but doesn’t make explicitly political content
Eh, the complete opposite side is trying to establish the Fourth Reich, their opinions don't matter.
I don't think any of those people are leftists...
16:14 I'm not even done with the video but the fact that this woman said blackface was a new thing we magically came up with is mind boggling. I get it was a while ago but could she not just look something up beforehand?She doesn't have to feel offeneded but she's basically inforcing a bad mindset by saying it didn't exist before the 2000s.
Keep in mind her video is from 3 years ago so she's probably gained more knowledge on the topic, but yeaaaah 😅
@@UnpoeticJustice I just can't fathom not knowing that blackface has been a thing for a long long time. Even over here in Australia where we don't have the same history with blackface I feel like you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what it is and that it has been around for a while
@SuperNuclearUnicorn some of us genuinely arent taught it in school, either. i never knew what blackface was or the history of it until i became an adult and saw people talking about it on youtube when shane was being called out before and im 28 now.
edit to add; i grew up in america also, specifically the state of texas.
I grew up in MI and somehow i even knew about it as a kid. Maybe its a north vs south thing.@@emptyacc5093
@@emptyacc5093unfortunately we can't just assume everything we were taught in school is everything there is to know. never been to a texas school, but i imagine the curriculum is similar. i was taught that columbus discovered america, the trail of tears was barely spoken about, the tulsa race massacre was never spoken about (& i'm from oklahoma, attended oklahoma schools) so if those things weren't talked about, i would be naive to believe american school systems in the south would ever teach me about blackface.
The whole white guilt section was very interesting, and it does feel to me that Duncan’s video seemed to be desperately trying to prove that he’s “white boy of the year” rather than actually discuss the problems that needed to be discussed (although this is only based on the clips shown, I haven’t actually watched his full video). No one is really being helped by him patting himself on the back and saying “look at me I’ve never done anything racist ever, therefore I have all authority over who is good and who is bad” which is funny because just managing to go through life without saying anything racist does not mean you can understand all the nuances and arguments that come with this topic.
Exactly
So, I’m not an influencer, and I don’t want to be, but one thing about me is that I was super homophobic when I was younger, and that continued into my late teens. I didn’t stop and reevaluate until I was 19, when I had become close with someone who is gay. Suddenly, it dawned on me how shitty it was that I could marry the man I love, but he couldn’t do the same thing in most places. This was 3 years before the Supreme Court ruled on equal marriage. I have been very open and honest about my past homophobia because it has shown how I’ve grown and what I believe now. Duncan saying, “Don’t become an influencer if you’ve done something racist,” seems harsh, especially for people that have grown and learned more from the moment they did the really wrong thing. I’m always an advocate for just being open, just being honest, and understanding why some might be angry about it. In my experience, with my queer friends, they’ve understood I am not the person I was and I no longer hold those beliefs. Maybe I’m off base, I don’t know. Feel free to tell me if I’m wrong in any way.
as a person who watched a lot of kurtis videos during quarantine and watches a lot duncan videos currently (they help me get through daily tasks. i also felt like Duncan kinda missed the mark and i commented this back then when his video came out. the idea that someone who does anything racist or problematic is irredeemable and can’t pursue a comedy career makes me laugh. it’s not fair and it’s not how real life works. i love duncan a lot but he missed a few marks
Fortunately, there's always room for growth 😊
that’s what i felt too. hope he reflects and learns
I feel like a lot of UA-camrs go through similar stuff like this in their careers. I really do hope he reflects on that
Fr, everyone has made mistakes and can learn and grow. I've made homophobic comments/jokes in the past while growing up, then later realised that I'm gay myself. I suppose there's a sort of poetic justice in my situation. In general however, we all have unconscious bias (even the most 'socially concious' people) and are ignorant about something. The beauty of society and education is that we can learn about others' experiences and continue to grow. I've no doubt that Dean regrets his past comments and will continue to develop himself.
didn’t know duncan before this video and i gotta say his vibes are so off?? he seems like really annoying (i obviously don’t know him and he can be great but his whole vibe was just giving high horse white person trying to lecture everyone)
In my friend group, we call other white people like Duncan "morally lucky". They didn't grow up with overtly racist ideas and have never had to unpack it and confront their own beliefs. They can't imagine that there's any nuance, because they wouldn't do something obviously racist, and by extension they usually don't understand the more insidious and subtle types of racism that they likely did grow up with. My family casually used slurs, so how can I blame my 8 year old self for doing the same? When I was 18 and knew slurs weren't okay, but I was still saying problematic shit, does that mean I'm condemnable for life? I don't think the right answer is never be a public figure, atone in silence, never say why. I don't think it's enough. You should be working to dismantle the system that lead you to do something you no longer agree with, and be honest about it.
Thank you, will start using this term to describe this phenomenon! The social standards for the “friendly unproblematic white boy” are so low…
Yes, work to the dismantle that system directly to white people like yourself and had your upbringing. Call out your parents and family members! Black people are tired of hearing how you used to be racist but had the luxury to grow out of it. The black people affected by racists peers in their youth have to carry that bullshit with them. If you are not racist now, then it should be reflected in your behavior NOW. We don't want to hear about you being privileged enough to be able to mature from being a racist youth!
I can never forget the 1st time I was called the n-word or had something fucking racist said to me because people like you being "edgy and joking". So as I am corncerned you should be condemned for life because of it. Black people do not care about your personal growth journey and how you grew up surrounded by racist family members. It's truly exhausting listening to the same story over and over again. Just be better and focus all of that energy trying to convince black people you have changed and actually try to change the people who instilled those values in you in the 1st place.
@@berickslime6718 honestly this comment wasn't about my own journey or convincing anyone I'm a good person. Just about Duncan's limited perspective. You don't have to forgive anyone or anything, you never have to be friends with me. For the record I never called anyone the n-word, I said it in contexts I thought "weren't racist" and learned better as soon as I was able. I don't doubt that I hurt people. I knew kids who said it and meant it and I don't associate with them. But I'm never going to say things I did as a literal child define me forever. Hate me or don't, that's your right.
@@berickslime6718 You are currently condemning an 8 year old.
i was laughing so hard about the "ive never done anything wrong" thing. im disabled and this is what every abled person sounds like when i say they shouldnt call me a cripple lol
never say they shouldn't call you such and such. that almost never works. what works is finding some imperfections they have and call them that name. lol. I always canvass a room of people for their shortcomings. Some people are clumsy. Others are slow. Some have bad hair. Some wear glasses. Some obviously need to get laid. Making those observations give you your arsenal. the best defense is a good offense. And when someone's imperfections aren't obvious, you make them up on the spot, naturally. Or you can always talk about their mother, or how they're actually getting laid a tad too much for anyone's benefit. Okay maybe that last one is a bit too far. Don't go too far. lol
Sadly some disabled people like being called weird regressive terms
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 literally. i lose a bit of faith in our community every time i hear the term "aspie"
@@ArsenicCatnip06 Any video about "politically correct" language regarding disabled people and you see this, just saw a comedian complain about this because they have a disabled brother, and I see it on places like Tumblr and Twitter too. Makes me wonder how many of them aren't lying so they can keep using outdated terms. Trans people have this issue too, so much self-loathing in these communities.
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69dammit, if only they knew better
this is really well done, as a white person i tend to assume that the melodramatics of white ppl being called out is the typical "white ppl tears and self-flagellation to avoid accountability" but I think your take on unreasonable remorse for being born as white is really poignant and insightful. There is absolutely an element of white culture that makes individuals regret being born into a place of privilege because that is easier than contending with how their position has served them from birth. i really like your style and insights, your words are going to stick with me for decades
The Jenna Marbles thing was incredibly frustrating for me because I kept seeing people who were NOT OF THE GROUPS she was apologizing to rushing to tell her she was fine. I had a friend who was very dear to me say, "Of all the people UA-cam fans could cancel, why Jenna?" But she wasn't being cancelled. I appreciated her apology as someone who was affected and was just glad to see that she wasn't trying to hide it. But they immediately got mad at us for "ruining it" which was hurtful. Idk. This doesn't make much sense bc I just woke up lol, but I wish people would think about how their rush to dismiss the "necessity" of her apology could make others feel
your one of the 10 people jenna marbles offended with a joke? so you did ruin it then? nice. guess we shouldnt make jokes about people that arent the same race as us, matter of fact we shouldnt live with them or breed with them either i guess, i guess our cultures should stay our own then and only whites can joke about white people and so on so forth.
this is exactly why I've held the "not my apology to accept" stance
@@soupsalamamderA very silly stance.
@@chickensalad3535 if someone punches my friend and apologizes, should i take that apology? even though I'm not the one affected? thats pretty silly 🪿
@@soupsalamamder Yeah, you should decide for yourself.
Your pointing out of white people using “they” when referring to black people, which makes it clear that the person speaking isn’t intending their message to be *towards* black people, (implying that in their minds they are speaking to an audience of other white people) was really eye opening and I feel should have been obvious to me, now thinking about it in hindsight.
I can see other instances of this same concept as well, not just in apologies, but in general (ie reminds me of male church leaders using “they” when referring to women, even when speaking *to* a audience of women and men. I always remember the gross feeling of a pastor seemingly preaching only to other men despite the whole church being there lol)
It’s a subtle look at who their content is subconsciously intended for, and reveals hidden biases *even* if there are no ill intentions.
I’ll be mindful of it from now on, coz I certainly didn’t like it when I experienced it lol.
Yesss I was like OH THIS IS WHY IT SOUNDS SO FAKE
but they/ them
Didn't you say "their" content in this post?
Theres all ethnicities that refer to other ethnicities as “they/them” including black people
How are people supposed to reference a group they’re not a part of then?
Your points about cultural racism, white guilt and the white liberal paradox are so great. I remember myself as a tween in the 2010s when I was first fiding out about social justice and prejudice, mostly through UA-cam and through a very online, very engaged and short tempered friend at school. I had very low self-esteem and me being white quickly became an easy channel for self-flagellation; I remember genuinely feeling so awful about it and about being blessed with such an easi(er) life. I remember first finding out about the concept of 'blackface' and not understanding what exactly was the harm on doing it. I discussed with my friend and she called be a "racist bigot" and said I should be ashamed of myself. I felt extremely hurt. I hid from her at school the next days out of shame and avoided discussing anything related to social justice out of fear of showing ignorance. I was just a 13 year old struggling to unpack the inevitable racist beliefs I had grown up with.
Point is, even though white guilt is generally just virtue signaling, it doesn't take away from the fact that the current online discourse encourages self-beating and eternal condemnation rather than growth. Many of those white liberals with culturally racist ideas could unpack and be better, but end up shutting down and even participating in the online stoning of others who are more similar to them than they'd like to believe. More than anything, humans want to fit in, and that innate desire is fundamentally opposite to our ideal goals in identity politics.
I am sorry that you were met with such hostility from your friend and I am sorry you were made to feel that way. And to your last point, not only do I completely agree with it, but you are totally right. I myself as a black and queer person has had to really take some time to realize that this stuff is so very heavy and simple in theory yet so very complex and very fragile in practice and so very serious. There needs to be a space where people can express shortcomings whether conscious or not in good faith and not be condemned harshly and instead met with empathy. Especially when they are actively seeking to change for the better. Because not doing so leads to what you mentioned, self flagellation and eternal condemnation as well as throwing stones from glass houses all while hoping nobody really sees the one throwing the stones. That is far from productive or helpful in getting to the overall solution to the issues we face and grace is imperative in fostering open and honest conversations. And understanding that allowing spaces to address these things does not mean excusing these things is so so important in stopping the eternal condemnation often held in these spaces.
I found Kuncan's video genuinely triggering because it sent me into a spiral of obsessively examining my past, and i couldnt finish it. It was the opposite of productive analysis. Finding this video was genuinely cathartic. Thank you.
I know this comment is old but I wanted to thank you for making it because that's how I felt too: triggered. It spoke to a very dark and unhealthy part of me, the part that engages in perpetual shame over past mistakes. I found it genuinely upsetting to hear him talk about how the only response to any misstep is to go into hiding forever. Not only because I think he's wrong but also because it sounds like a voice from within myself that I know is unhealthy.
@@talkgoodenglish7500DUDE FR AND IM NOT EVEN WHITE
@talkgoodenglish7500 I wholeheartedly empathize.
Kuncan was stroking his own ego for wayyy too long. Like, why did he have to include himself talking about how *not* racist he is…bro do that in the privacy of your own home, no one wants to see that.
I hate when people act like that. Not being racist is baseline shit, don't pat yourself on the back for that lol.
Like, not digging deep into it, it gives me the sus vibes
@MareTigeress2 Also, like, I clicked on your pic to see the pup, and, holy shit, we have a lot of common channels.
that section really bothered me... i feel like that did not need to be included at all, why on earth did he keep repeating that he had never done anything offensive.. ?? usually when someone repeatedly tells you how "good" they are... they really aren't :(
@@tzf04.to me it felt like fear, like the whole situation bothered him personally to the point he was trying to convince himself he wouldn’t ever be viewed in a similar way. I can see how he would spiral to trying to convince himself he’s not like Dean or other people who have been blatantly racist, but it’s not a good thing to put in a video I don’t think
The background music in Duncan's video when he was talking about guilt was an interesting choice. I have spent time in a psych ward and that was the kind of background music they would play for guided meditations.
Stooooop 😭 You made me snort laugh my Pepsi, omfg ☠️
should've gotten sprite smhmh lol@@UnpoeticJustice
it kind of sounded like the twilight soundtrack to me for some reason,,, 👀
I recognized some as music from the Mario franchise (I recognized a bit from super Mario odyssey). I don’t know, but I always thought it was kind of funny to use video game music as the background for a serious topic lol
I think some of it is also from old Animal Crossing games?
I’ve never watched your channel before and I’m going to be totally honest, as a Kurtis fan I went in with my defenses up. I’m glad I really listened to what you had to say. I couldn’t agree more. Everyone has been ignorant in the past, no one is without “sin” so to speak. There are plenty of genuinely good people who just need a little guidance and room to grow. There are also people who don’t have growth in them, of course, but I refuse to write off every person who are capable of more with the right perspective.
As a Kurtis Conner fan I’ve been feeling uncomfortable with how he talks and jokes about religious people, makes me uncomfortable 😭😭
I used to watch Kurtis. He's a total cuck🤷🏿♀️🙅🏿♀️
@@zandikhetwayo7444lmao then don’t watch him, you religious slob
@@zandikhetwayo7444Dude me too😅 I watch other creators who make similar jokes in a way where they aren't just dogging on Christianity they way he does it is just so uncomfortable for me
@@zandikhetwayo7444 womp womp
I love the way you talked about the problem with "all or nothing" thinking. As someone who has been chronically online since I was a teen, I definitely fell into that line of thinking for a few years. Hearing your added thoughts about it, and the concept of goodness, was a lightbulb moment for me. Your thoughts helped me understand a lot of my own issues with myself and my social connections in the time that I've been trying to move away from the all or nothing thinking.
okay but why did Duncan make it sound like having racist behavior in your past is the same thing as killing a man 😭 I knew that white leftists were like this TO A POINT but that straight up kind of scared me. "the entire time you've been known, you're guilty" and the idea that you're always hoping that no one will find out and carrying it with you all the time....the guilt that he expects someone would feel is so wildly out of proportion with the "crime". it kind of implies that Duncan is under the impression that he has a perfect past and has never done anything wrong or to be ashamed about. it's not helpful to anyone to take on these sky-high standards of morality. does he believe that doing something like Dean's blackface means that you SHOULD feel guilty and horrible about it for the rest of your life, like on a daily basis? truly a bit baffling.
I think white leftists adopted this very severe and no-tolerance, no-discussion-allowed stance for bigoted behavior as a way of "uplifting the voices of marginalized people", like they believe they're doing it "for the community", but this seems like it has morphed into something deeply personal and honestly unrelated to what marginalized people actually want or believe. I totally agree with your point that it gives people an out to not actually express their opinion on subjects regarding race, and I think there's a real fear of being a "bad ally".
to some extent I get that content creators might feel conflicted when a bunch of people are asking them (or telling them that they absolutely need to) talk about a certain situation that they might not feel comfortable addressing, but in general I feel like if you don't have a fully-formed opinion beyond the classic leftist racism-is-bad talking points, it might be better to sit that discussion out. there's always a balance of using your voice to spread awareness about important issues while also not becoming a police force that takes any opportunity to lambast others in a totally un-nuanced way.
I love the word "wokescold" as a description of people who disparage others for not reaching a standard of being woke enough, liberal enough, leftwing enough, for responding to issues in a way that they view as "wrong" or "not good enough", and they essentially gatekeep this "correct" way of thinking and being.
It doesn't help that so many people are very fake online. So they might be overblowing situations online for whatever reason, when they don't actually feel exactly that way IRL.
its giving me puritan vibes
exactly my thoughts!!
I fully agree. When he talked about how he didn't go to parties when he was in high school so he definitely never did anything racist was eyebrow raising raising.
holy heck yes!! that’s what it sounded like
Not me just now finding out about happening, I'll watch Kurtis every once in a while but never really kept up with his friend group or associates. Also goodness gracious it felt like Kuncan was being held at gunpoint in those clips bless his heart.
Ya'll are killing me with these comments 😭🤣🤣
Same lol. I have watched a few of his videos from time to time but never really followed him so this was interesting to see.
I really like Kurtis and I’ve been watching it for years but I can’t stand Dean, he’s always doing something shitty
i really like kurtis but i don't really keep up with his friends (i only know jacob bc he appeared in kurtis' videos) and wow did dean's tweets punch me in the face with how bigoted they were 😭
Thank you for this!! I clicked because I hadn't actually heard about the Kurtis-Dean situation and wanted to know more, but I'm so glad I stayed to hear your nuanced commentary. I do think Kurtis's responses on Reddit are a little lacking; it's strange that he would go straight to defending Dean's actions and weak apologies as opposed to what he has more of a right to defend IMO: that his and Dean's friendship is ultimately their business and that they've probably handled this privately to an extent that we don't (and don't necessarily deserve to) know about. It doesn't make Dean's actions okay, but the expectation that Kurtis would loudly, publicly, unconditionally stop being friends with the guy feels like it comes from a parasocial place.
I don't watch a lot of Duncan's content, I'm sure he's generally fine, but omg the clips you showed are very strange. As a white person, I really recognize the tone of the beginning of his video. Some white people (probably myself at times) feel the need to be SO overcompensatory when talking about race. When in reality, like you said, it kind of just serves to recenter themselves and their emotional response. In a way, that section + his bizarre assertion that anyone who's done anything problematic shouldn't pursue visible careers sort of makes it feel like he's trying to establish himself as an authoritative voice about race/how we should address racism, which I guess I think is a boundary we should try not to cross as white creators.
And then that portion about how he was just blessed enough to never be racist in his life is so tone deaf. I also think/hope I've never done anything egregiously, obviously offensive, but it's so ignorant to assume that you've just magically gone through life without ever doing or saying anything remotely racist, or that you never will. (Also is he implying that like... being socially awkward = no opportunities to be racist?? Such a weird moment in general) We've all been influenced by the systems we live under. It's presumptuous to assume that we've never said/done anything we didn't realize was offensive. It seems insidious to give yourself a sort of 'I could never be racist' blanket, because I'd think it would make it difficult for you to recognize if/when you've messed up.
Sorry for the long comment, great video!
You’re right about expecting Kurtis to drop a friend immediately is parasocial and weird. For all we know Kurtis told him “I’m going to hold you accountable and make sure you’re actually trying to change.” That’s what I would do. Some people can’t grow unless their feet are held to the fire. Of course he may not have said that. We’ll never know and honestly that’s okay.
I remember watching Duncan's video and feeling so off about it. Especially that moment where he played dramatic music over clips of Dean talking about how he has lived his whole UA-cam career with this unimaginable guilt. It genuinely felt satirical at first. Like I am not condemning Dean, but I doubt that he lived his life with this overbearing guilt or that he has even thought about this moment in his life much at all.
I'm really glad you mentioned kuncan Dastner, that part of his original video was really weird, honestly his whole vibe of that video was so uncomfortable, especially as a POC woman, it reminded me of the occasional white guy I'd meet and him trying to convince me he's "one of the good ones." and the whole "I've never done anything wrong" comes off as...i don't know like he's trying to hide something? like he's projecting, and maybe he's not? but it was weird
It's very "holier than thou" if nothing else.
My very first istinctive response was "Do you want a cookie?".
Frankly can't decide if it's better or worse if he is lying or he genuinely believes all of that.
Exactly!!!!!!!
It’s like the movie get out in a way I can’t explain lol
It's been a hot sec and I watched it while putting on makeup so maybe I wasnt focused. But I think it was just a personal reflection on his own journey and questions starting a youtube channel - had he done or said anything publicly that could get him in hot water down the line? Fortunately for him, the answer was no, but the point of the discussion was also - if he had done such a thing, what then? is it redeemable? when do you put it all out on the table? having to apologize for the longdead past seemed just as bad as opening your youtube channel with "hey guys, welcome to my channel! when I was 9, I used slurs"
But thats just how i understood the segment.
will never fail to be impressed by how succinctly yet thoroughly you're able to word your thoughts and points.
I appreciate that! I try to get better with every video ❤️
@@UnpoeticJustice you're doing a fantastic job! i genuinely look forward to seeing what you'll make next and how your scripting will continue growing from here. ☺️👍
@@UnpoeticJusticethat's based fr
Fr its like if i never smoked pot and still had my entire vocabulary on hand , it fills me with awe and envy
Fr
One of your concluding points, about how conservatives tend to remove all blame from systems and place them on individuals, while many people on the left tend to the opposite of removing blame from individuals to place it squarely on systems and abstract concepts, stopped me dead in my tracks.
This is something that has annoyed me about online leftist discourse for years now and you spelled it out so perfectly! I think people tend to focus on the abstract as an out from having to take individual accountability for much of anything. But the reality is, systems are built and sustained by individual actions that compound on each other. Therefore, if we truly want to dismantle oppressive systems, we have to step out of our own egos and be able to address individuals and the real concrete actions they commit. Without that, the status quo continues.
Kurtis as an individual seems so hands off and more “live and let live” than he seems to let on on his channel. I really perceive his own personal politics to be a lot more relaxed than his audience expects them to be. Which is a tough place to be in for someone like him. Idk I could be wrong. But people condemning him for being friends with dean is so extra imo. Like deleting all his videos that have dean in them must’ve been a HUGE blow to their friendship and probably really hard for Kurtis /: idk I have just been watching him for so long that even I don’t agree with some of the more political takes he has! And I still watch him and he makes me laugh a lot. This was a great video though.
Wait did he delete all his videos with dean?! Holy cow- I didn’t know
@@skepticalshrekyeah i noticed this too because i’m only seeing reuploads of their videos and their podcast together hasn’t been touched in a year or so
Nah. The reason why I haven't watched Kurtis in years is because he directly attacked everyone who doesn't agree with ab*rtion and continued trashing them in a follow-up video when we made comments like "Hey, I'm a fan and we have different opinions and that's okay." Seems he only heavily supports an opinion that directly benefits him ie him not wanting a child.
@@Alixir1228is there a clip for this? or any kind of evidence?
@@Alixir1228is there a clip for this? or any kind of evidence?
Loved your analysis. I honestly found Duncan’s video sort of unnerving, if you follow his all or nothing thinking to it’s natural conclusion he’s basically saying, “if you’ve ever made a mistake you need to shun yourself from society. Only the people who’ve passed the purity test deserve a platform/can exist in the public eye.” Also his comment about being raised right with good values rubbed me the wrong way. Not everyone has the privilege of being born into the perfect circumstances. Very Calvinist in thought lol
CALVINIST. omg that's apt
I was like "oh he must have been raised Catholic" bc that's def a whole new level of guilt 😭 calvinist! Fr
@@annabelle4655 as someone raised Catholic (with a lot of Guilt™ to this day) I definitely don't relate to whatever Duncan is on, loooool, but his video did come across as, frankly, religious in its tone, especially when he was talking about shame, atonement, and the precarity of forgiveness. Calvinist! Someone do a background check on him to confirm lmao
I think people change one of two ways. Either by slowly walking of the path they were heading on as the work on themseleves/their situation. OR by suddenly being shocked an rapidly making the adjustment. Sometimes it takes time for people to see past their biases or change their mind othertimes something drastically changes their worldview. Take a drinking problem for example. Sometimes people need years of rehab, sometimes they get into a scary situation (drunk driving accident, blacking out and waking up injured, etc) and immediately say "This has to stop, I quit"
Well said!
@@UnpoeticJustice Thank you!
Very true. In my own experience, I have mainly experienced truly transformative and radical change in the latter way. It feels a lot like someone dousing you in cold water.
I haven't seen anyone else point it out, so I just feel I have to. That word you used at 31:50 is a slur for Rromani people. I know that that's such a small thing to focus on, but I feel it's important to point out, because Rromani people have been saying for literal decades that that word is a slur and is offensive, and people still continue to use it. I love your analysis throughout the entire video and it honestly did change my mind about a few things (particularly it made me think deeper about that "all or nothing" mindset you mentioned) but I feel it's important to point out that that is an actual, literal slur that has been used for centuries to hurt and dehumanize Rromani people.
glad to know I wasn't the only one to catch this and point it out, i hope more people become aware that is a slur and stop using it
My horse is a gypsy cob. That’s her breed. I’m not Romanian but have been told I can’t say her breed cause it’s a slur. But I assumed it was an identity as they are Romanian horses
@@noaccount9795 Romanian and Rromani are not the same thing, and if u have been told to call her smth else than that breed by Rromani people then u absolutely should because, again, it is a slur
@@cecilbenderman6240 breeds are pretty old so they wouldn’t be renamed. My point is was it always a slur or is this new? Like queer used to be a slur but isn’t now
@@noaccount9795 ohhh i get ya! yah its always been considered a slur. the word comes from a word for thief and it was (and still is) used to demonize and demean Rromani people, the same way queer was for queer people and the n word was and still is for Black people. the reason its so commonly in use is because its still considered to be societally acceptable to be racist towards Rromani people
My biggest problem with Duncan is that he lives in this world of his where change and growth does not exist. Forgiveness doesn't exist. That's an awful place to be. The ability to change is one of the most important things in the world, and it's a joyful occasion when you've made a change. I hope he is able to discover this.
I agree 100% with the "black people are not a monolith," thing. I think a lot of people hear that and think that it only means that "my opinion about race cannot be wrong because there are black people that agree with me." However, that ignores that black people can also have bigoted and ignorant opinions, like all people can. This is why the "this person is a grifter because they are a part of marginalized group X and have a worldview that does not support marginalized group X." It feels incredibly tokenizing.
Opinions are automatically biased since they aren't rooted in anything factual.
The Romani consider G*psy to be a slur. I asked a Romani influencer about it years ago. The account that answered is gone now, but I do remember the gist of their response. While there are those who call themselves g*psies with, the majority of Romani groups consider the word to be an ethnic slur.
I believe there are two broad categories of peoples (with each containing several ethnically distinct groups) that are labelled Roma/G*psy, with one being okay with the latter term, and the other not. However as I cannot fully confirm this with a cursory search, take this info with a grain of salt.
I remember not being sure if the word was a slur for many years, so when I became active in a couple communities of Romani influencers, I was sure to ask.
Also, sorry if this sounds upset or mean. I am trying not to, I am just autistic. I find the video to be wonderful. It recontextualized aspects of Kuncan Dastner's video. Specifically his bit about blackface. I had already felt weird about his conclusion on what one should do if they've erred, but I hadn't considered the way his view of acceptable behavior/forgiveness was impacting the way he talked about blackface itself. I really like your style of delivery, and I made sure to leave a like 😊
Oooh, I didn't realize the word in and of itself was a slur. The works I've read indicated that calling a Romani person the term was derogatory. I'll have to read up more, thank you for pointing this out! ❤️
@@UnpoeticJusticeFlorian on UA-cam is Romani and has several videos on this.
@@nacoleacostayes, he's really good
Thanks for pointing this out. I live in Russia and the slur is the only way most people recognise these ethnic groups, so when I say "Romani" almost no one understands what that means, which is awful and makes everything more complicated. And not all Romani in Russia agree whether this word should be replaced or not.
Wait, is there a difference between a slur and a degoratory word? (I'm not a native speaker) Shouldn't one avoid both?@@UnpoeticJustice
I don't know how to word this specifically, but I'm so blown away by how "efficient" (?) this video is. Like, now a days on UA-cam videos like these are at least an hour long, but you communicated so much with so much depth in half that time. I have a learning disability so I'm always impressed by and grateful (?) for effective communication; I really can't overstate how much easier it makes comprehension. Really great video that brings up a lot of good points.
This is really sad to find out about Dean. I never really was a fan of Dean because of the way he talked on Kurtis’s and Jacob’s podcasts but I never knew he did something like this. I think they’re all still friends because they went to college together. That might change now.
I havent watched this yet, but I want to say I like Duncan well enough but his segment where he obsessively thought about every potential bad thing he'd ever done for like days, then *encouraged his audience to do the same* made me tremendously uncomfortable. If youre reading this, especially if you have any anxiety disorder or OCD, please please do not follow that advice. It's extremely unhealthy and unhelpful.
Okay, on with the video! Love your channel! ✌
EDIT: omg thank you all for the likes, never gotten this much attention on a comment before ❤ And the video was phenominal, great job Justice!
Feel like if you have anxiety and/or OCD you probably already do this all the time. While yes, regretting past behavior is normal, especially if you have hurt people, obsessing over every little thing is going to drive you insane - and away from the point! It's not about feeling like shit every day you're alive, it's about doing better every day and becoming a better person.
Using regret of past actions as motivation to improve is good, in my opinion. But isolating yourself from everyone and punishing yourself for past actions does NOTHING - And honestly it seems very catholic to me.
Like you did one irredeemable thing and now you're damned to eternal torment in hell. You must repent every day and pray for forgiveness. That's catholicism. Not leftism.
@@nessie7306 for sure and a lot if people do it, it's especially dangerous to encourage it and treat it like a good thing to do! Also totally agree, it has notes of fatalism and catholic guilt all over it
As someone with OCD when he said that I was like…this is THE most unhealthy advice you could possible give lmao like introspection is one thing but constantly ruminating FOR DAYS looking for something to condemn yourself with forever is not actually productive or helpful. And he doesn’t seem to offer solutions if you do remember something worthy to condemn. No growth, no rehabilitation, no empathy just endless shame and guilt.
Yes to this and alll of the replies
i dont watch kuncan but it seems odd for a leftist creator to be so weird about reform
sadly, this mindset will make people more right leaning because if we don’t welcome them when they show change, the other side will accept them and accept them as they once were. it makes the leftist movement useless or even a result of more right wing individuals
He's a liberal / socdem type above all else I think, not any sort of radical and he works under the same punitive, individualist framework as the average person
@@theelectricant98He’s definitely radical.
@chicken Then he's not actually thought deeply about his ideology. It's not cohesive with how punitive he is and how he doesn't consider how we all, him included, pick up discriminatory behaviour just by living in a discriminatory society
@@theelectricant98you don’t have to have radical takes to be a leftist.
Kuncan's assertion that people who have done harm in the past are permanently spoiled and should simply hide their face ironically reminds me of how our punitive approach to justice reinforces white supremacy through the prison industrial complex. To him, it's more important that Dean simply 'disappears' to a degree rather than be meaningfully transformed and actionably work on repairing the harm he caused -- similar to how our broken justice system often does not provide real means of justice and transformation, only a sometimes temporary separation of those who have caused harm. As you eloquently pointed out, hiding could result in someone silently operating in a still misguided mindset and only continuing to cause harm. Because of that, this specific point by Kuncan felt especially misguided and even dangerous. Transformative justice has been part of indigenous cultures throughout the world and is a key force in dismantling white supremacist structures. It doesn't mean everyone should continue having a platform, but it does mean fighting the notion that removing someone from society (akin to what he's suggesting with Dean simply never interfacing with a public audience again) always leads to justice.
Sidenote: This is the first video of yours I've watched and I'm thrilled. Thank you for your labor in providing such an incredible analysis! Instant subscribe!
This, exactly!!! As an abolitionist, you put it perfectly! Thank you for writing this comment
Fully agree
i’ll be honest i clicked because i’ve always been a fan of kurtis and i wanted to see what he was responsible for. i stayed and subscribed because this video is so well done and educational. i can really tell how much time and effort was put into this creation, so much research was done!
same lmao
As a white person who has worked on, and is actively working on unlearning racism, i found it kind of weird and uncomfortable that Duncan had this holier-than-thou attitude about his parents raising him with 'the right values'. Like okay, am I just irredeemable then because my mom spewed racist nonsense that I believed until I got older? Am I irredeemable because I had an "edgy(racist) teen phase" where I used slurs and didn't understand their impact?
Edit: I'd like to point out that I'm not trying diminish the harm of my racist behavior. I just tried to use myself as an example of why this line of logic is working against white allies who have participated in racism in any capacity. Note taken about "edgy teen phase" having a certain set of diminishing connotations.
when i was like 11 i said the N word a couple times alone because mfs told me "if it ends with an A it's funny and not racist" and that was the last so i guess im a demon now
Nah, I’m Latina mixed so I can’t speak for fully blk folks but for ME the intention of the slur matters the most. If someone calls me a gusano knowing what that word means in the context of Cuban American history, like the way Hasan Piker used it against Destiny, I think they should be deplatformed. But if an ignorant person uses it, or it’s in a joke, I don’t really care. I also don’t care if you joke about Latinos building houses or landscaping, but if you assume every elderly Latina you see is a housekeeper, that is offensive
@scarletsletter4466 Genuinely curious...how is joking about Latino people building houses and being landscapers ok, but housekeepers is not? They are all stereotypes. I don't think any of it is funny personally.
To the people you hurt yeah you probably are. Slurs aren’t a mythical cloud. They’re real words with historical and present day discrimination attached for ppl they are aimed at.
I don't think she is saying one is better than the other. She's using them all as examples of stereotypes that people shouldn't assume apply to all Latinos, but separates genuinely applying stereotypes to people from joking about them (at least that's what I understood). @@caseyw.6550
the way pearlswirl casually said the c-slur for Asian people….
I literally have no background on her, but the video was from 3 years ago so maybe she's taken on a different perspective or value in her more recent content
The same can be said for dean? Or does racism for anyone other than black people doesn't bother you? @@UnpoeticJustice
Jfc the moment Dean said he'd immediately throw away a friend who made an off colour joke made me so sad. If you truly love someone enough for them to be your friend, you help them grow or understand what made them think these jokes are OK and what prompted them to make them and you help them see their biases. You don't just throw them away like an imperfect little toy
Duncan* But yeah and it is hard for some. I have had family members who were racist. They're mostly dead and one is going through dementia.
@@roxassora2706 yeah, same. It's so hard to just throw the whole human away without actually accounting for why they're like this.
And thank you for the name correction, I'm abysmal with names
@@IGoByAlllexia I understand.
this was a really thought-provoking video. recently, i was confronted with a friend's transphobia. being gay (and my friend aware of this), i tried to show her the similarities between transphobia and homophobia. i was hoping i could show her how they stem from the same place, and lead her to see how accepting gay people while not accepting trans people is counterintuitive. instead, i discovered that she was quietly homophobic as well. i'm really struggling with how to deal with this. i believe in growth and change, but being directly in the firing line of someone i am friends with is new to me. it makes it a lot harder to gauge whether i think my friend is well-intentioned at heart when i am so emotional. this video gave me a lot to consider.
This was a very enlightening video, especially the segment on guilt at ~22:30. I have moral OCD which makes guilt a very powerful emotion for me, so I found Kuncan's video very convincing/persuasive. But your points are much more nuanced and less black-and-white. The way you describe tolerance - that tolerance doesn't necessitate forgiving and forgetting, but can be a tool and requirement for social progress - is something I'd never considered before, since I am so used to seeing "tolerance" invoked to give people a free pass rather than holding them to account. I think that black-and-white approaches, such as Kuncan's proposal of "Never show your face online if you've ever done something racist" can serve as a copout from the challenging reality that people can do harm and still grow from it. It keeps us from analyzing the actions of our favorite creators, and our own actions as well.
Will have to watch more of your videos, you've got insightful, clear and concise commentary that makes for a perfect background while I work.
That's how I felt too as someone who also has OCD, but you worded it all better than I could. I really like how she said everything.
I have moral OCD too and that's exactly what watching those Kuncan clips reminded me of. I feel like this video called me out in the most productive way possible
I feel like my brain must’ve filled in the nuance to his video, because I understood the message to mean “don’t be an online public figure if you’ve ever been publicly racist, unless you’re willing to own up to it and grow as a person”.
As someone who also has Moral OCD, this video really spoke to me when contextualizing accountability and tolerance. I also thought that Kuncans video was persuasive, so to watch this it put my thoughts into a whole new view point. Subscribed immediately to her, this is great!
mhm! my OCD, mostly intrusive thoughts, does make me quite anxious when I remember things j did that were bad. like how, as a kid, my friends said the n word so much and always excused it that I somehow believed it was okay and that I had to say it too to fit in with the times (I'm very disconnected from society) and that my hesitation towards it was somehow just me being reactive, even though all my friends were white.
I figured out really quickly that, no, my gut feeling was right, because whenever it was said I'd go "this doesn't feel right, I don't think I should be saying this. why are we allowed to do this?" and stopped, and genuinely have been trying to educate myself but also educate people on how it's not okay still. so Duncan's vid made me a lil anxious about it - although I don't expect any sympathy about it that's just my two cents. I mean, I know that I've definitely grown a lot (probably because I'm not literally 11 with the mind of a 9 year old...) and that trying to learn and boost voices and charities if I can't donate for reperations cuz broke is a good start and that there is still more I can do, so uh. there's that!
I’ll be honest… white folks like Duncan who talk about other white people being racist in an awkwardly intense way usually don’t hang out with many, if any, POC. You see a lot of similar attitudes among white (usually queer) Portland liberals.
Note: I add the queer aspect because of the way many white people in marginalized groups, such as the lgbtq+ community, subconsciously absolve themselves of their white guilt by heavily othering themselves from straight/cis white people.
Absolutely 0 reason for you to add the queer element bc white folks will always other themselves from their white guilt.
Here's the part I don't get: People seem to simultaneously criticize "white guilt" and insist that people _should_ have "white guilt" actually. I'm just sitting here sipping something in the background watching the wheel go 'round and 'round. The only conclusion I can come to is to stop caring and continue not being an asshole.
@@colbyboucher6391 i never seen anybody ever said any of that? white guilt is critized bc a lot of white folks wants to act only based on that, and not on care and need for change. what is being asked is to open up a book, a documentary and help the community, instead of solking up on your white guilt, bc that doesnt help anybody.
@@colbyboucher6391 I don't know anyone who says you should have white guilt. unless you're conflating being anti-racist / self reflecting on one's own racism, with white guilt... but those two things are actually very different. I'd argue that white guilt holds white people back from being able to see the full scope of racism because we make the issue center on ourselves and our feelings, instead of doing the work to dismantle the racism that exists around and in us
Lmao true, as a white queer leftist, this is so common it’s almost the majority of white queer liberals/leftists. This behavior also seems to correlate with introversion, poor social skills, and chronic online patterns.
"This was never a question of 'Should offensive content be allowed to exist?' It should always be the question of 'How do we reduce people's desires to create offensive content?'"
Damn, that was so well put at 27:44. It really helps to reframe this from an individual problem with individual people to a problem with how the systems we interact with encourage and reinforce the racist outcomes we see. It doesn't excuse the individual actions, but it works to understand how they happened and how they can be preempted at a higher level.
That guy telling people to hide if they ever did anything offensive just makes me scratch my head. Not everyone has to take a moment of harsh public criticism as world ending event.
Those are actually the type whites that concerns me more than the most flamboyant racist; the
Duncan's hard stance against maintaining relationships and his beliefs about his "clean past" make me somewhat question his intentions. Is he really cutting out bigotted people out of his life for the community or to protect himself from being associated with them?
THIS. right here.
thats something i thought about too.
This is a really poignant distinction!
Oof, good point
Not wanting to be associated with, or to directly associate with, bigoted people is a normal thing to want...
I would never trust anyone who boldly claims "I have never done anything wrong". We can't control the circumstances in which we are born, we have the burden of our culture and station imposed from the moment we first breathe, and through education and life experiences we learn to be better, and making mistakes is a big part of that.
this is a great video, but i do want to point out that the word “gypsy” is generally seen as offensive by romani people. i’m sure it was unintentional. i really loved your take on this!
Have gypsy heritage and gypsy neighbours and we don't find it offensive. We're in the UK, I don't know if that changes things.
@@ranimeRAT are you illiterate by any chance? because they're talking about a known slur that is offensive, not whether everyone in that community is offended by it. have you not heard of people giving 'n word passes', your comment does not change the fact that it's a slur
I stayed friends with someone for over a decade who had a racism problem, like many people from my old neighborhood; I was raised by racists myself, and had to unlearn and learn a lot. I thought I could change him and that he was changing. The thing is, sometimes when someone is racist like that, even if they do improve, racism isn't the only problem with them as a friend. In the end, my friend had other prejudices, and other issues, and it led him to being a bad friend on a more personal level towards me. And we will probably never know if Dean was a great friend or kinda not the best friend, but both are certainly possible. We do know he didnt really consider how his friends might be uncomfortable with his behavior like Blackface at a party, and people have said they were uncomfortable. He knows his friends are more progressive than him. So to me that shows he could be inconsiderate. Which, tbf, we all can. but maybe there are more reasons than their career that his friends like Kurtis were willing to end the friendship publicly.
Duncan going through the monologue about him wracking his brain if he ever said something offensive or offended someone had me scratching my head. People aren't perfect and people learn from mistakes. I am not saying that people start off actively prejudice, but we all start off ignorant and none of us truly know how our own actions are perceived. You can be racist, sexist, transphobic etc without being intentionally malicious and I think that's something a lot of people don't realize. I see that exact thing living in the south when I wear femme clothes all the time, even when people are trying to be supportive. The people who listen to other perspectives grow and the ones who don't repeat the same behavior.
For real. I can’t imagine how any person could thoughtfully reflect on their whole life and decide they’ve never said or done anything potentially harmful. And from that, they’ve cleared the purity test required to exist online. It’s healthy to recognize past missteps and learn from them! I know not every racist action is equal in scale, but to not even acknowledge the tiniest missteps while racking your entire brain?
Plus you’re not going to remember something if u think it is normal or unremarkable. Idk how many people decide consciously they are going to be actively racist
@@lindsey4620when you step outside of the US (& maybe Canada), you encounter people who are openly & proudly racist. Stores in Asia may not even let you in if you’re black. And don’t get me started on antisemitism. I was with a group of finance students in France & we had some Orthodox Jews in our group, & certain restaurants wouldn’t even seat us. I’m not saying this makes creators like Jenna Marbles less offensive, but it’s worth acknowledging it’s a position of privilege to be offended about Jenna Marbles’ accidental “blkface” rather than have to worry about actual disparate treatment
also you can be bigoted and GROW. myself when i was a tween i was incredibly transphobic, i had alot of internalised transphobia and homophobia. not that it excuses it but i was literally 11/12 and barely understood what i was saying anyways. and yet duncan would have me believe i dont deserve to ever venture into the light of day. anyways the kick is i now go by they them lol
It's so weird to say that everyone who has had even a single problematic thought isn't deserving of remaining in the public space, even worse to say you wouldn't even keep them in your social circle. Sure, we all have our limits which depends on our own experience and personal sensibilities... but to pretend to only accept morally pure people around you just sounds delusional to me.
That's because it is delusional lol
Its also weird cause this very generation Had a very politically funny phase around 2016
Honestly, the puritanical persona some creators put forth is off putting and makes me suspicious. Why is projecting perfection so important? What could they be hiding?
yes, and it's precisely this kind of thinking that keeps the leftist internet running nowadays, kind of? put a creator on a pedestal, wait until they make any sort of moral mistake, then tear them down and move on to another one.
Fucking exactly
saying “blackface didn’t exist til now” feels not correct
a white dude sitting in a room with bisexual lighting, using his asmr voice to talk about how he's never been racist ever and therefore deserves youtube fame, WITH SOMBER UNDERTALE MUSIC, is peak lefttube 🤣
The purity Olympics going on is really concerning. I get why the overcorrection has happened but in their perspective there is zero incentive to ever accept responsibility. Why would you if you’re eternally doomed to being “problematic” ? I don’t care for the feelings of these particular individuals, but it completely removes the idea of rehabilitation and overcoming harmful perspectives, which just ends up hurting the marginalized groups they supposedly want to protect.
I feel this. Like I definitely think it’s important to decenter, not demand forgiveness from the hurt party, and acknowledg that some consequences naturally come with negative action regardless of how much one has grown. But like online people really act like total condemnation motivates anyone to change, when in my life experience in the past I‘ve seen more people double down and get more entitled about their beliefs or wallow in self pity the more moral absolutism and “purity” I had about the issue. I saw more growth from people I told that they are not a bad person but the action or belief itself is hurtful. Like no one has to forgive people that hurt them or hold their hand or anything, but pretending like the person cannot progress after or grow to be better on their own feels so self righteous and doesn’t inspire faith in others or themselves.
I’ve heard people compare dogmatic political rhetoric to religious fundamentalism, but it often reminds of what I’ve heard from prosecutors. It’s the contempt for idea of rehabilitation. Most shit involving “good” v “evil” thinking makes me real uneasy. With some exceptions (namely, child exploitation is evil and those people can’t be rehabilitated)
I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, it's not really about good or evil, but whether the person in question is even interested in being rehabilitated at all. You have some people who will double or even triple down on their nonsense, go into the arms of people like The Daily Wire where they will continue to wail about how mean we were when a lot of people were either indifferent or providing them with help politely. Rehabilitation is 100% needed, but it does become tiring when you see someone screw up but then refuse to do that.
Ikr it’s kinda puritanical
The justice system loves this. "They're a psycho and nothing can fix them!" then they release the offender back into the wild to offend again. There is a better future than this...but the system doesn't want it.
Totally agree!!
You're so right. "Leftist guilt" to me resembles religious guilt, where homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism, ableism, etc go from systemic issues into personal "sins." It just completely sidetracks any kind of productive discussion. People will f*ck up. That includes marginalized people. The whole "no forgiveness" thing, or worse, constant self-flagellation, leaves people who could be organizing, and *doing* something trapped in spirals of guilt and shame.
I feel like the response I've seen most often is that Jenna didn't have to leave and she could have just carried on and even I see a lot of puzzlement at why she didn't.
One thing I appreciate about her apology and subsequent leaving is that it steps out of the mindset of self preservation. Most apologies on UA-cam are made with the understanding that they have to continue doing UA-cam. Something I feel is not present in most other jobs.
It was nice to see someone realise "oh wait I don't have to continue doing this I can just get another job"
I’m glad to see a response to some of Duncan’s points, and I know this is a bit of a side tangent, but I always have to take loooong breaks in between viewing his videos because sometimes his point of view really reminds me and even sometimes triggers my symptoms of OCD. It’s impressive the level of discipline he seems to project in his videos, but I think you put it well when you underlined his guilt that drives these beliefs. OCD will latch onto things much smaller and unrelated to what Dean did, but describing the persistent feelings of guilt that should follow someone for having done something wrong in the past, as well as suggesting never stepping into the public light for having done potentially offensive things in the past sounds exactly like the dialogue in the mind of someone with OCD. The way he described never doing anything in his past as well as cutting out people without second thoughts as a kid really made him sound like he’s the concept of the superego more than a human being. Following that up with him trying to scrape through memories to see if he did anything “bad” once again harkens back to OCD. I always think that his solutions are like a perfect moral answer that sometimes lack realism, and that it must be nice to haven’t made any mistakes. Again, OCD can literally make me feel bad for using the wrong tone in one word of a sentence so the definition for “mistakes” is broad, but he felt a bit intense nonetheless.
This is so interesting. As an older white person who considers myself a leftist but isn't a content creator, I watched Duncan's video and thought something like, "huh, that's intense. I could never meet that standard myself and my family members surely couldn't.". I just figured it was a "(white) kids these days" thing 😂. Like, no white person born in the '80s could take this position. Especially not if they wanted to try and help/push their fellow white people to do/be better. I thought it was an age thing. I think your take is more well thought out though. And very helpful. Thanks!
Nah, for sure he is just misguided on what allyship really looks like. Most younger people know people make mistakes and that's normal lol
Exactly, you can't expect people to get better if you don't provide them space to grow
What standard?
@@clumsyninja925 the standard of never being able to be public or speak because you have done something racist. Like having to organize your whole life around the fact that in the past you said/did/acted racist. Welcome to white supremacy, right? Understanding that most white people raised and living in a white supremacist society will overtly hurt people with their racism at some point in their life means that we need a solution that allows for people to move forward and do better. The solution to systemic and individual racism cannot be that anyone who has been racist can never speak again. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be held accountable. The video says it better 😆👍 but that's what I mean when I say "that standard".
@@clumsyninja925disappearing from public eye if you've had past mistakes
My issue with 99% of the cancel culture situations is that people that act like they’re in good faith say they want “accountability” but yet there never seems to be an end to someone getting dragged. Accountability inherently has an end point. You get a traffic ticket, you pay it and you go on about your life. The end. Someone will purposely dig up something stupid from a decade ago, wave it in someone’s face and say “well how do we know they’ve changed?”. Maybe it’s the fact that they haven’t had anything recent to hold them accountable for? Most of this stuff is stupid. I mean, can you name one apology video where people are tearing it to shreds? It’s evident that this “accountability culture” is a huge overcorrection.
Calling racism is not cancel culture the shit don’t exist. Another racist dog whistle, Next
@@Kuromikinnie your white guilt is showing, how about treating poc people like people instead of soft uwu babies who can't make their own decisions so you speak over them
Perfectly said!
I can never forget the 1st time I was called the n-word or had something fucking racist said to me because people being "edgy and joking". So as far as I am concerned those things should never be forgotten by the perpetrators.
Also if that stops you from actively striving to deconstruct your racist past then you are still POS. Many white people try to hold POC hostage with their change. For example, "if you don't be nice and sympathetic to me if I make a mistake, then I am not going to do anything to improve myself".
Conflating anti blackness to paying a parking ticket is wild.
Dude, you are gonna get a million+ subs eventually. This is some of the best commentary I have seen in a while. Also, I have never understood why black face was necessary to "cosplay" as black figures. I was Ricky Williams for Halloween one year (old football player who loved weed) and I just wore a Dolphins jersey and spent the whole party with a blunt on hand and everyone knew what time it was. It isn't that hard.
I think this is one of the best videos on societal issues ,for people who have just started to understand that there is more going on than meets the eye, I've ever seen. Incredibly well done and even moreso said! I will definitely be keeping an eye out on this channel.
So glad the YT algorithm recommended your video to me. A lot of the current era of white guy commentary channels have this very dogmatic approach to racism that, to me, is very weird and uncomfortable even as a white person. They claim to listen to marginalized people and confront their biases, but also have a standard that demands perfect allyship since birth, and that any advocacy done due to growth is deceptive. To claim you have always been the perfect ally is absolutely insane to me. Nobody is a perfect ally, even to communities they’re a part of for gods sake. To say “I’ve never been like tbat, my parents raised me different” only tells me you have not truly listened to marginalized people.
That type of moral purity reminds me of the christian right. These people may have changed their views, but not their approach or attitude towards other people's shortcomings. I am assuming alot of these people grew up in Christian/catholic families or at least in very conservative environments, they disagreed with them but didn't question how their approach is not very different from the people they apparently have nothing in common with
One thing that I've noticed about this with ppl being so quick to condemn cancelled influencers past the point of redemption is that it really plays into ppls desire to watch others punished. A lot of ppl that consider themselves leftists and even prison abolitionists still use that framework of justice and punishment for how they interact with cancellations. Also I definitely get a holier than thou vibe from leftists that talk like that. A lot of white leftists subconsciously wanna signal to other leftists and visibly marginalized folks that they're "not like those other ignorant/racist white ppl"
Agree!! This obsession with moral purity is so counterintuitive to progressive movements. White guilt SHOULD be processed, but I do think that work should be done privately and not in front of an audience. I can see people making the argument that it could be helpful to see someone go through the process of unpacking their white guilt (which is sort of what Duncan’s video feels like to me now), however the video itself is framed as a deep dive/critique of a situation that he wasn’t even involved in (other than being a viewer of Kurtis and co) so I don’t think that’s even a valid defense lol regardless of Duncan’s intent, the video comes off as a performance that really only serves to put him in a morally superior position to the people he’s critiquing. Like others here, I was irked by the section where he talks about how anyone who’s ever done something problematic should never take a public facing job?? That’s a wild take!!! And if his goal is to impart leftist values on to viewers, this rhetoric really fails to do that. This rhetoric falls way more in line with religious fundamentalists rather than leftists. I hope he watches this video and takes the criticism cause I’d love to see him grow from this type of thinking.
Absolutely! It’s a bandaid. We can’t get rid of racism but we can get rid of (insert celebrity here). And then we can feel relief. But it’s false. I understand it because there’s so much that we have no control over and cancelling feels like the smallest bit of relief we get. But ultimately, it doesn’t solve things.
TRUUUUUUE. I've noticed a penchant for punishment too or associating "punishment" to "justice" that rarely they put on questioning. I'm very passionate about rehabilitation and things concerning how abhorrent and exploitative the criminal justice system can be. And it's a huge discussion point in leftists politics in general but when I see influencers talk about this it's always "the prison complex is horrid conditions for criminals to live in", which is better than nothing but there's never discussion on reduced sentences, decriminalization, post-prison life and injustice especially in regards to access to work and housing.
It's very selective and leads me to wonder if they're even pro-rehabilitation or if their ideal solution is legitimately "make prisons more liveable but keep them locked up". Which I probably don't need to tell anyone but is much more of a liberal take than a leftist.
This is the first video of yours that I’ve watched. If I checked your subscriber count and it was like 3M I wouldn’t have been at all surprised. The quality of your editing and your writing is so high. Really great points that were so well made.
I am a birth doula and postpartum doula. The racism in healthcare is awful. I advocate the best I can for my clients and I look forward to learning more from you and your channel. I study and grow and try to create a safe space. This was excellent coverage and extremely informational. Thank you.
the dramatic red lighting for duncan's video 😭 an interesting choice
Definitely startled me upon my first watch 😭
i was like “girl i got astigmatism don’t do this to me” genuinely could barely see anything
nah seriously what on earth was that 😭 was he speaking from hell?
Holy shit, kuncan gave a whole anime villian monologue
🤣
I thought I was the only one that found it weird that Duncan spent a chunk of the video being like “I combed the internet to see if anything problematic would come up about me and I didn’t” like that’s so strange…
I watched Duncan's video and definitely raised an eyebrow towards his "I've never done anything wrong" part because like...did you go to school? If there's anything I know it's that schooling in many "western" countries is almost always structured in a way that it's often impossible you won't be taught white supremacist ideals. Living as a white person in a white supremacist society, it's unlikely that we will NEVER internalize anti-black sentiments, even innocuously. I have a biracial mother and even she isn't exempt from holding those ideas. It just kind of speaks to the idea that maybe he needs to be doing a little more listening and reading before having conversations like this.
Yeah the guilt spiral was giving social anxiety rather than like…mindfulness
Definitely something that I think Duncan probably struggles with, I hope he’s been able to reflect better on it, because it feels like his own negative feelings are eating away at him and effecting his content.
agreed
Hoooo you threw Abba, Preach and those two ladies under the bus, then drove it over them😂. I'm glad you pointed this out because it helps to kill the "I've got a poc friend" narrative. I recall that being used heavily in the renaming of the Washington football team. Not so much friends, but certain indigenous groups who probably felt there were bigger fish to fry.
😭😭
As a aba and preach fan, this was hilarious! I love your video, it taught me a lot
Kuncan's video showed up in my recommended so I watched it, and it left me feeling really weird. I'm glad it's not just me who found his little speech under that red light odd as hell.
thank you for handling this with the respect and consideration it deserves. i'm white and have never experienced racism, so i know it's not my place to speak on that, but as someone whose special interest is kurtis and is a huge fan of him, you captured my thoughts on accountability and responsibility perfectly. i do believe kurtis does bear some responsibility for giving dean a platform like duncan said in his video, and i will always hold him accountable for any poor choices he makes while also continuing to be a fan and hoping he continues to educate himself and show allyship. however, i appreciate that you looked at everyone's role in this in a respectful and empathetic way while also acknowledging the damage dean has caused by his actions, critiquing duncan's assertion that he's never done anything wrong and challenging the racism embedded in youtube and society on the whole. this was such a well thought out, nuanced video and you gained a new subscriber :) i hope i worded this right im sorry if it doesn't make sense 😭
This video kind of gave me an aha moment toward the part where Duncan was talking about how people with controversial pasts should basically never show their face again.
It reminded me of how most men kind of know that when it comes to misogyny that they're more fit to combat it and reprimand other men for committing it, but it's more advantageous for them not to because it creates a comparison for them to be seen in a better light.
I think a lot of white leftists do the same thing. Rather than actually wanting to hold other white folks accountable for and combat racism, they'd rather accost them and exile them socially because it's more beneficial to to just seem like the better white person/making white people look better overall. Even though statistically when these types of people are exiled and isolated they tend to fester and deepen in their bigotry. Much how unchecked misogynists feel as though they can continue what they do because no man tells them otherwise.
Both groups are not aiming to solve a problem by any means or see growth, they just want to make sure themselves and people like them come out on top no matter what. even if it's to the detriment of the people they claim to care so much about. It's purely optics for them.
Facts. 💯💯
perfectly put
couldn't agree more
I wondered why the situation was leaving me feel like something was missing, after watching your video I realized I was missing a black perspective. I really appreciate your videos. They always challenge my bias. Thank you.
I would also like to add that from my understanding the g slur used for roma and romani people is a slur.
hopefully kuncan learns to include voices from the impacted community when he's commenting on bigotry. that's something i've always appreciated about foreign man.
I really love this video and the care and time you put into it. I constantly struggle with conversations about restorative justice and WHO exactly does the restoring of the deeply bigoted people. I think this is the first video of yours that I've seen and I'm absolutely subscribing. I really strongly believe in collectivism and community care and nuanced understandings and I love you how prioritize those ideas/practices into your analysis. 12/10 would recommend!!!
another banger!
the last segment is to all the girlies who thought they did something when they confidently flex about disassociating with people they once deeply cared about, cutting them off like numbers because... social progress? nah, socially acceptable image and comforting yourself with the idea of keeping oneself clean feels way better somehow
it always screams "there is no way OUT of your troubles as long as i am OUT of yours" to me
Not someone that actually cut off people but was just thinking how i shouldnt be around my family or avoid people due to their problematic ways, so i feel called out. Dont really know what to make of this situation. The video explains but not sure i understood, can you expand?
LOVED this breakdown Ty so much! So many points to add to:
- the black women and men who weren’t offended and explained why is a gripe I’ve had for such a long time. Since we are Americans, there are black people who’ve never experienced racism to a degree to care or even know the history enough to care. I love and loved Jenna, but she made me proud pointing the problems out. She didn’t have to go, but that was her decision and no one should downplay the wrongdoings just because you don’t like her decision
- I really liked Dean when I first got into Kurtis’ channel, but once that girl from the show they went on talked about his behavior afterwards, it was a wrap for me. To now learn of his past is just so damning. And yes, as teens especially in the 2010’s, nobody took racism as seriously as they should have to me. I had a “friend” at 15 show me a Shane video and it was blatant black face and he didn’t get that. He was Mexican and made jokes about his own race all the time but I didn’t agree with it and I never watched Shane’s stuff because of that ONE video so it has relentlessly baffled me that anyone likes him. However, I’m not going to leave any space in my mind for him and that’s my way of dealing
- As a very optimistic person, I’ve always found all or nothing takes on racism very damaging as it fixes nothing. The Being offended “is your choice” thought process is so selfish and blatantly ignores the big picture. We should be aiming to be in a world where people CAN feel comfortable and not a target for racism in all spaces. And the Duncan dudes mentality of “If you ever been offensive just don’t be in this field” gives a sour taste in my mouth too. After that take I said out loud “how is anyone supposed to grow? Is acknowledgment and having an open discussion to learn from your peers not an option?” Life is complex, our history is complex, and we’ve all grown up in a weird ass country being taught wildly different things. We have got to be able to have some empathy, an open ear, and know that change takes everyone time but that means knowing why to change in the first place. I’m not surprised by really any white people who do something mildly racist at this point, but if I tell you that and you continue, you’re choosing to be an awful person
- lastly lol, I’ve been a UA-cam girly since 2008 y’all. I liked the likes of Tobuscus, Pewdiepie, Smosh, Philly D, Jenna, the key of awesome, etc. I had to discover all of them having content I felt offensive before and had to wrestle my feelings with. I stopped watching Toby cause his content lacked completed playthroughs, but on numerous vlogs he bragged about dating a black girl. “She was mixed but it counted!” Type shit. I was a teen so I was like…okay. Eww. But I never commented. Stopped watching pewds cause that N-bomb was said so hard bruh lol then he made fun of a deaf black woman because of her nail clicking.I was not a fan by that point but I wasn’t surprised because of the previous offense. And Smosh hit me in my CHEST when Ian and Anthony played that dumb 50 cent gangster game and weren’t laughing at the game, but more so the themes and characters actions I.e. black men. It made me uncomfortable and sad.they to me have definitely grown from that point themselves as well as made a cast of people who are diverse AND funny, not just a diversity hire type stuff.
In the end it’s just plain lazy to me to not take context into account for these people as they navigate their wrongdoings. Deans apology wasn’t for the people he offended, so he’s going to continue to get flack as he should. But I hope as more UA-camrs rise and fall, that people do think more critically about these issues and think to themselves how they can help make positive change, or protect their peace without harming another persons peace
TLDR: Context matters heavy and with this platform being around since 2005, people have to be more critical in their takes when someones actions has been deemed offensive. Downplaying the victims of the offense is selfish and nihilist, and wanting to shun the person when it’s not that bad is not fixing anything (somebody arrest Shane though please gah damn).
Can I just ask like, can a creator only learn and grow on platform? Like, because Jenna left the platform did she not learn and grow afterwards? UA-cam, content, “influencing” is a job for these people. And can we not agree that no everybody needs to be one? That’s not saying they don’t deserve to learn and grow, but that literally there *can* be a standard? I feel like folks are centering this around how normal people should forgive each other for their past which I think is a different conversation than influencers who profit off of a vaguely progressive persona are actually not all that progressive - therefore exploiting their audience lol.
Thanks for adding these points. The comments to Duncan's video are full of people eager to point out how they, too, have never done a problematic/racist thing in their entire lives. So they were probably, I don't know, reading bell hooks and getting a degree in Decolonisation while the rest of us punks were growing up on the channels you mentioned. Yet many of us have evolved past that and are actively trying to do better, shouldn't that matter for something?
@@heyyitsjudeThank you. There is context in which I don't feel bad for not forgiving (for offenses that affect me) and not supporting someone. I do like to give people chances even if I don't want to be their friend or watch their content. Like, if I had a boyfriend who cheated on me I would want nothing to do with him, but I wouldn't wish a miserable life for him. I'd hope he would learn from the mistake and never do that to anyone else. Forgiveness and supporting rehabilitation doesn't have to mean being happy about it or overly invested.
@@Aster_Risk I needed your comment to better understand the first one and I do agree! I have 3 ex best friends that I don’t wish ill Will on but they aren’t friends anymore for a reason and I never want to see them again. I’m constantly in shock that Chris Brown for example is still thriving when he is a serial abuser of women, especially dark skin black women. Not forgiving people is also a valid choice to protects ones peace
Thank you. I’m a white person in a small town, without much experience with anyone besides straight, white, cis people who hate any kinda difference and I don’t feel like a terrible person here. I’m 31 and just trying my best to unlearn everything this place has pounded into my head. I still really like Duncan, I just know he’s also not the person to get all the information on this situation from, because he’s white too. You always help me better understand from different perspectives as well, and help my black and white thinking see HOW and why everyone has different thoughts. I always get confused and don’t understand in the trans and disabled community how and why there’s such different opinions when most issues do honestly seem black and white to me, and being in those communities is honestly irritating sometimes because of it. Idk how what you worded just clicked or what exactly you said for it to do so, but thank you for always breaking it down to the bare minimum so I do understand and see everything you are explaining, as well as being able to help me understand things outside of what you are talking about that I didn’t understand before.
I hope all of this made sense in the kindest way I could figure out how to word it. ❤
As a white gay man, I first noticed how black feminist creators give me perspective that I could never get from anyone else, and therefore is very very valuable. And then I think I got a comparable insight to what it could mean to black viewers, since LGBT-creators have been very important for me lately for I share the perspective, and I really really do need it for being sane. So there is so much respect for me here, and I am all ears.
@@tapijoz I’ve come to realize recently while ALL minority creators voices are very much important, black leftist women have an insight into the world and way of explaining that brings everyone more together and into the conversation in an incomparable way to anyone else. I don’t have the mental ability to look at others perspectives easily, and unless someone explains it to me very clearly, and not everyone can do that in a way that I don’t feel completely guilty for how and where in this mess of a country I was born.
@@d.h.4778 I agree. I wanted to say something alike. Especially, because, after all, there are also black lgbt feminist creators. So I do agree that there can be so much that is brought together in a way that makes a lot of sense all over the spectrum of people.
@@tapijoz unpoetic justice is definitely my favorite creator. She just has such a way with words. The world would be better if more people knew who she is and actually took the time to listen! And I can agree or disagree without hate, and then we can all talk about it. While I do think black leftist women need to be the forefront and most listened to in all of our political situations, I do feel she is a lot better than mostly anyone else I listen to. She cultivates engagement in a very different way than most. ❤️ I love that we’re all actually having conversations. Ya know?
@@d.h.4778 Yes, definitely! Disagreeing is important and I have learned to also hold my own opinion and to form it, because of the healthy criticism. And there are days and situations that I have loved when I was wrong, because it made me progress. People shouldn’t fear it so much that they form a strong opinion RIGHT AWAY. Understanding takes time. Also there have been times I loved disagreeing, because I have learned and vice versa.❤️
I watched Kuncan Dastner's video as a follower of his, and I felt put off by some parts of it but I moved on and didn't spend long examining why. Your essay was really good and highlighted things I definitely wouldn't have thought about, and I'm sharing it with my friends.
I'm kind of embarrassed to realize I didn't unpack Duncan's video more. I remember getting uncomfy, but I didn't explore it. I think I wrote it off as his dramatic persona? Looking back on it now, I can't believe I missed so much, yikes. Admittedly, very lazy of me, probably also complacent, so I'll be working on being more critical and less head empty while I'm watching stuff going forward. I'm so grateful your vids are starting to hit the algorithm. It was so difficult to find videos on the nick thing that weren't done by questionable creators and I've been directing friends to it. Absolutely doing the same with this one. Thank you. (I will be deleting this and my whole internet presence because I had an edgy phase in middle school. )