Just did this yesterday with my Tyranids Vanguard Onslaught list. Got to go first and with 18 Von Ryan’s Leapers I basically blocked him in his deployment zone for 2 turns.
@@animefan8254 I just had to teach my friend how to screen out GK today. You move the Wraiths to the front of the center objective, and advance your front ranks within range of objectives. If you give them nowhere to drop, they have to move slowly towards you. At that point, since Necrons are a primarily shooting army, you can mow down most of your opponent’s units with little effort. The problem with deep strike armies is they are easily screened, and slow moving otherwise
I actually just had a victory against grey knights recently. The nice thing with running a fast attack and infantry heavy Admech list is the points are low. And I was screened out to the point the only deep strike places he could go were the corners of his deployment zone. It’s always sketchy moving against Grey Knights it’s their teleport abilities but so long as you properly screen your army they’re limited in where they can drop back in.
I’ve watched Art of War do this and talk about this a few times. My brain always wants to preserve as many of my things as possible so I almost never do this but I should probably at least try
The trick is to accept that it is a battle and that you will loose units. Beeing able to control which and to what effects gains you a big advantage on your opponent
Easy fix. Tournaments need to actually use the Mission Rule aspect of the game. Instead of having every round be Chilling Rain, they mix in others like Scrambler Fields to stop this.
I think you might even be able to make just shy of 16" including the 2" for the engagement range on the outside. And don't forget the wounds for the technomancer as he can tank a few wounds too.
@@SgtDax you are right in the case of range, but the Technomancer only has 4 wounds at T:4 4+/5+++, so its defensive profile is nothing to be concerned with
In 9th i managed a win by abusing my opponents deployment zone. My opponent ran knights and my necron wraiths ran up the board and scored the charge on a Armiger. But because of this his Paladin who was behind the Armiger was blocked inside the deployment zone by the Armiger. It was a good time
I just had Tyranid player block me in my backfield in my game yesterday. It was really masterful to be honest and super frustrating to deal with. But he killed my movement from turn one.
Ugh, I was on the receiving end of this in my most recent RTT. Played my Crons with the new Canoptek Court, went against Black Templars twice and Tyranids. In all three games I went second, and in all three games I was hemmed into my deployment zone with crusaders or Genestealers in my face from turn 1. Boy that wasn't a frustrating day of 40K at all....
I wish Catachan with a platoon squad attached would still get Scout. The platoon squad could get a heavy flamer and a couple of more flamers for fluff and would really help with overwatch against the enemy unit trying to break though. It's a glitchy oversight in my opinion.
@@Arantonak EVERY edition had stupid broken players that abused rules... need i remind you of INVISIBILITY, DEATHSTARS, NULL DEPLOYMENT, FLYERS, CP FARMS, BATTLE BROS etc etc tec
@@REDN0AK Yea but older editions also didnt pretend to be a competitive tournament game and treated it like a narrative. once we hit 8th edition a lot of charm went away, most is gone now in 10th.
@@Arantonak Ah yes my edition with non digitized rules, extremally powerful abilities hidden in obscure books that went out of print last month, and armies that required 30 dollar tome simply to try playing is better than the streamlined, modern edition.
I've done this with imperial guard vs black templars! With the combination of scout move and orders, I was able to charge two sentinels into a land raider with sword brethrens inside. Was able to delay them long enough to allow me to handle the other threats in the list staggered.
I have built this into my list. I've got a 40pt missionary who gives me d3+1 mirical dice when he dies and he can auto revive for 1 cp. I make sure I repeatedly point him out during deployment and turn1 then charge him screaming at my opponent to the nearest choke point. He has a 100% success record so far. It's great watching thier face as they spend min 1 turn trying to move round him without killing him before they work out that that stopping me getting 5 MD on average isn't worth a whole flank of thier army being stuck.
I managed to pull this off once against a Monster Mash Chaos Demons army. Used mass Zerkers, Jakhals, Spawn and pinned the greater demons in their deployment zone. Adding Masters of Execution to my Zerker squads made my opponent very reluctant to charge me and I won on points. I ended up killing all his OC2 troops and ignored his Greater Demons. He broke the stalemate in turn 3 with Shalaxe and a Bloodthirster but by then I’d scored so much primary he couldn’t recover. Fascinating game.
Some Guard Player tried this with me and my Space Marine Vanguard Tank Force... Sure, my scouts and infiltrators couldn't get out of the deployment, but I did get the boltguns to start working on the units and then letting the Gladiators mop up afterwards...
This strategy fits perfectly for my Tyranid Vanguard Onslaught. Will defenitly test this on Some ‘willing test subjects’. In our local meta we have tons of players who bank on SM death stars…
I used this to win the final game in a tournament against Knights. He chose fixed objectives and I used harpies, rippers and spore mines to keep him locked in his deployment zone for most of the game.
This is a really powerful strategy for AdMech. They have a lot of great options for this. Sicarian Infiltrators, Pteraxii for deepstrike, Serberys Raiders and Skitarii Rangers in Dunerider for scout moves, and Ironstrider Engines are really cheap and fast T7, 3+ 5++, 7W models.
I brought a meta Tau list against world eaters my last game. I thought I had screened rather well until Angron flew almost 30" and destroyed my hammerhead turn 1. I also lost all of my screening units 😭. My 2 broadsides did basically no wounds to the rhino and my brick of crisis suits with 3x CIB did less than 5 damage to angron despite being guided. I'm tired.
Yeah unfortunately World Eaters and chaos demons are a bad match up for Tau general lists this edition. Hopefully the codex release will give us more flexibility to deal with them in the future.
@@Mr._Idiot440 Those are 2 of the most played factions at my lgs along with nuns with guns. This edition has not been fun for me to say the least. I've only been playing about a year and I have anxiety during deployment every game now 💀
Exact same thing happened to my Dark Angles. He deleted my Aggressor unit on the charge. Luckily this left him hanging right in front of my gun line and I managed to shoot him off the board and went on to win the game.
There's something similar to this concept in chess - gambits. You sacrifice a piece or pawn to get into a better position than the opponent. The problem is, you have to prove to the opponent that the gambit was worth it, and use it quickly to gain the upper hand - otherwise it's just a lost piece or pawn.
I can't wait for them to decide this is a problem and make some band-aid rule to prevent it. All the more reason why the best thing that could happen to Warhammer 40k would be to gut the entire rules system entirely and build a brand new one from scratch.
When I was learning how to play Orks in late 9th, I would do something similar but more aggressive. I'd call a turn 1 Great Waaaugh if my opponent deployed close enough and had two units of kommandos, a big brick of stormboyz, a unit of warbikers, and a twenty man blob of boyz da jumped by a Weirdboy all try to make turn 1 charges (orks used to have free rerolls) while I had Ghaz, Kans, grots and Trukks full of Dakka sit on the objectives. I played Blood Axes so the next turn I could fall back, shoot things up with the dakka, and then charge again to ensure I got fights first across the board. I'd also drop down dreads from strategic reserves and look for rerollable charges there. The battle plan was to keep the opponent in their deployment zone as long as possible and soak up as much points as possible, then hang on for dear life until they tabled me It was really fun. Had to completely relearn the game when tenth dropped and the playstyle was no longer viable though
By using fenrisian wolves with cyberwolf to get scout 6", they pretty good for screening unit, and keep the enemy in their own deplyment zone, and waiting the main unit can move to the center such as thunderwolves and terminators, works for me by using stormlance
The only reason people are move blocking so much is because this edition has been the edition of to much "stuff". Most armies just have a lot of units that they can just sling at you to stand in front of you to move block. Votann, Sisters, Ad Mech CSM, Death Guard. Being able go no prisoners in 9th and punish all of this chaff was great.
This. A little while ago GW re fought a classic battle from the end of Rouge Trader between Orks and Space Wolves. I reread the original WD battle report then watched the batrep on Warhammer TV and one thing immediately struck me. The original game was 2k points and played on a 8’x4’ table. The re fight used as close as possible to the same armies used and the Space Wolves came in at a little over 1100pts and it is played on a far smaller table, 5’x 3.5’. That tells its own story.
@@emceedoctorb3022 The old games on big boards has the issue of turn one and two just being advancing with very little else happening. While tactical it used to be very boring to play, the smaller boards means stuff happens from turn 1, but I do get that they feel a bit crowded at times.
@@Orannis01 Er no. You still started the same distance away as you do now, 24", so that argument doesn't hold water, I'm afraid. These days 40K feels like two 6 year olds with ADHD who have just eaten all of the blue Smarties getting their entire toy collections and just smashing them together in the middle of the board. 'feel a bit crowded' is the understatement of the century.
@@emceedoctorb3022Deployment was 24", but you could deploy at the back of the board to be further away. Since the small boards, some deployments you can start closer now.
@@Orannis01Bro that is how it is in Bolt Action and the game being like that is good. Things being able to happen turn 1 means potentially you just wasted your time driving out to play because your just going to set and get smashed turn 1 or be unable to hardly do anything all game because of this. It is 40ks biggest problem right now...
This kind of tactic is gonna be my next run with Slaanesh. The cheaper chariots can be taken in units of 2 and zip quite fast up the board. Plus 4+ inv and t6.
Now do one on the reverse of this: "Lure out and deepstrike the rear!" Of course this is most fun against melee armies but with dense LOS blockers this also works wonders against slow ranged units. Remember: if you cannot leafblower the enemy from your deployment zone you most likely also cannot shoot stuff off your homebase while camping midfield objectives :3
Armies with infiltrate + scout units can do this in all games (even when going second). T'au and space marines for example Can be devastating against certain armies (especially those relying on big models and lack of flyers). Basically wasting one of their turns for the cost of 2-3 cheap units.
Is this finally something admech could be quite good at? Three units of raiders, infiltrators and rangers in duneriders could easily get across the board turn 1, 9 units and three vehicles for 900 points. You could even follow it up with 6 units of pteraxii deep striking next turn to tarpit it further. Now I think, dear lordy 9 radium jezzail sydonian dragoons with their tough profile and big bases would absolutely gum everything up.
It can be very situation really depending on the game and army. Some stuff literally won't care about screen and some stuff gets crippled by it like World eaters.
The only reason I don't do this every game with all my Hormagaunts is that it takes forever to move them all. But "Gaunts as speed bumps" is a wonderful strategy
whats really weird is that ad mech is super good at this right now. loads of high mobility options, access to advance shenanigans, and chicken walkers being way to tanky for the points
Been undefeated with this list. Three chaos beastmen units iin rhinos scouting all mark of slannesh, three units of seeker scouting, three units of inflitrating nurgling. By the time all of that is cleared out the game is over on points, just take some oblits and forgefiends, a chosen lord or two.
Enemy units can still make a normal or advance move even if they are within engagement range of aircrafts and they can move over them as long as they have enough movement to clear engagement range.
this is what I am doing since the tyranid codex dropped. and I haven't lost a single game with the strategy.. I play the endless swarm, 3 units of von ryans straight up as close as possible to their DZ move blocking and ready to charge, some lictor variants, 3 units of hormagaunts, 3 units of gargoyles and then 3 units of termagaunts. I basically charge into the opponents deploymentzone turn 1 with at least 3 units, trapping multiple units in combat often, and follow this up with waves of hormagaunts in the middle of the field turn 1, gargoyles swarming the board and dropping fro mthe sky. and by turn two the whole board is just covered in my models, enemies unit can not move or even leave their deployment, especially shooty lists just die to this.. some melee armies, llike the new necron wraiths and world eaters CAN deal with, because they have to volume to kill more that a troop my guys each turn.. but in general I win every game because I score max primary while my oppoennts often only score like 0-20 points on primary.
This could be detrimental against some lists though. Say against a combat dreadnought list (say space wolves) with a 6” move this could actually mean the opponent gets closer with charging depending on where exactly you place your screen. Just food for thought though I’ve done this a few times and it has been helpful. Great video as always auspex hope you’re doing better.
@@keyanklupacs6333 definitely. I’ve used this against everything from knights to baneblades to terminators. Just thought I’d play devils advocate and hopefully spark conversation like this.
Issue: Blocking armies from being able to move, thus removing their ability to score for enough of a portion of the game, to ensure a winning score can become impossible for them to achieve. (NB: This has actually been an issue, to a lesser extent, since 8ed) Potential Solutions: Return to 6' x 4' board Return to 6 turns Adjust scoring rules Restore earlier edition versions of terrain rules/ interaction for vehicles & monsters Bring back old version of Tank Shock Analysis: 20+ years of rules editions sticking to certain principles was for a reason. However, constant shifting of rules writers who don't know/recall the reason for certain rules being removed/ always being there- combined with not having a central repository recording such reasons/decisions, and the internal 'gurus' of the game having now all retired- leads to the repetition of mistakes and the failure of the game to actually progress. Instead, many of its fundamentals regress.
This was my first 40k game in more than 20 years. It was against a Goff pressure list and I never got out of my deployment zone. Not cheating but not a fair fight either! 😅
I’ve been considering a kroot and pathfinder front line for Tau; kroot to counter chaff and move block, and pathfinders to guide and do a railgun “alpha strike”. Anybody have input on the idea?
Could this work with a Drop Pod? 70 points to deep strike on turn one. 7 toughness, 3+ saves, and 8 wounds. Can you deploy 3 empty drop pods turn one to block off a big section of the battlefield?
Its a dreadnaught in a drop pod. Keeps most opponents from moving, which allows the rest of yours to take board, and lock them in place turn 2, with the rest of reserves. Try 4sqds 5m terminators, 2 in landraiders, 2 in reserve.
Deathrider squadron too expensive for this?Squadron commander gives them infiltrate, and the large base +unite size of 10 gives them a wide footprint. Is the screening line ability meant for this? They have
If i unit has the ability "this unit can shoot and move" does attaching a leader mean it can't be used? I thought leaders become part of the unit so any ability that says "unit" still works?
This sorta tactic makes me think of whether there'll ever be a way to an opponents unit into reserve. Would need to have restrictions and be pretty expensive but is interesting design space
@@colonelturmeric558 I think it only counts if you fly over terrain. Double check that for sure, but cruising over models is fine. Or maybe it was just if you moved up or down, not just over. Yknow, idk. Check your rulebook folks
@@yeturs69420yeah it only counts for terrain. Weird when a CSM defiler is about as maneuverable as a jump pack unit because the defiler ignores terrain up to 4” high and can move over friendly monsters and vehicles specifically
Oh boy a broken rule that can effectively become Overpowered... I'm shocked that GW would release something so broken it's not like it happens pretty much every edition/codex and FAQ 😂
Wasn't there a green text story back in the day years ago where someone won a match with scouts in certain locations on the board ? You think that GW would have learned this lesson years ago but nope.... Typical GW.
The guy that Lost that way totally deserved It. He was a power gamer Who used a cheese White Scars biker list that allowed him null deployment. The Tau player knew his gimmick and was smart enough to completly deny any White Scars deployment The face of the power gamer when he realised he Lost with his invincible list without even rolling a dice is priceless😅😅😅😅
I've got to be honest, anything to do with rules "shenanigans " or rules lawyering is what ruins the game of 40k for me. If you've got a decent opponent there should always be an element of sportsmanship that means that your massive war machine can't be stun-locked by a chest high wall or a similar technicality. That said, I have been far more likely to screw up a key units movement because I had put one of my own units in front of it and they weren't able to get past or into the position I wanted because I moved things in the wrong order.
Just did this yesterday with my Tyranids Vanguard Onslaught list. Got to go first and with 18 Von Ryan’s Leapers I basically blocked him in his deployment zone for 2 turns.
Someone did this to me yesterday lol was I your victim. I honestly thought it was a masterpiece move.
I also run this, plus 30 steelers scouting and moving, typically a 7/8" charge to get your entire army in their deployment zone
Best use of fast attack units, blocking your opponent into his deployment zone
One unit of Wraiths in Canoptek Courts can be a 14” wide block with 24 wounds at T:6 3+/4++/5+++
Unless it's grey knights or necrons then they cab just teleport to the other side of the board
@@animefan8254 I just had to teach my friend how to screen out GK today. You move the Wraiths to the front of the center objective, and advance your front ranks within range of objectives. If you give them nowhere to drop, they have to move slowly towards you. At that point, since Necrons are a primarily shooting army, you can mow down most of your opponent’s units with little effort. The problem with deep strike armies is they are easily screened, and slow moving otherwise
I actually just had a victory against grey knights recently.
The nice thing with running a fast attack and infantry heavy Admech list is the points are low. And I was screened out to the point the only deep strike places he could go were the corners of his deployment zone.
It’s always sketchy moving against Grey Knights it’s their teleport abilities but so long as you properly screen your army they’re limited in where they can drop back in.
@@williamhanna9718 great job! My Jakhal horde does the same thing. 80 Jakhals just prevent mobility
I’ve watched Art of War do this and talk about this a few times. My brain always wants to preserve as many of my things as possible so I almost never do this but I should probably at least try
I have that trouble with any game: sacrificing units to gain a strategic advantage. It is so counterintuitive.
I do it quite a lot, sacrifice 1 chaff unit to protect the rest of your army
@@TheTommyFrenchNids, Genestealer Cults, Orks, and evn Guards can often easily afford to do it.
The trick is to accept that it is a battle and that you will loose units. Beeing able to control which and to what effects gains you a big advantage on your opponent
Easy fix. Tournaments need to actually use the Mission Rule aspect of the game. Instead of having every round be Chilling Rain, they mix in others like Scrambler Fields to stop this.
One unit of Wraiths in Canoptek Courts can be a 14” wide block with 24 wounds at T:6 3+/4++/5+++
I think you might even be able to make just shy of 16" including the 2" for the engagement range on the outside. And don't forget the wounds for the technomancer as he can tank a few wounds too.
@@SgtDax you are right in the case of range, but the Technomancer only has 4 wounds at T:4 4+/5+++, so its defensive profile is nothing to be concerned with
In 9th i managed a win by abusing my opponents deployment zone. My opponent ran knights and my necron wraiths ran up the board and scored the charge on a Armiger. But because of this his Paladin who was behind the Armiger was blocked inside the deployment zone by the Armiger. It was a good time
I just had Tyranid player block me in my backfield in my game yesterday. It was really masterful to be honest and super frustrating to deal with. But he killed my movement from turn one.
Ugh, I was on the receiving end of this in my most recent RTT. Played my Crons with the new Canoptek Court, went against Black Templars twice and Tyranids. In all three games I went second, and in all three games I was hemmed into my deployment zone with crusaders or Genestealers in my face from turn 1. Boy that wasn't a frustrating day of 40K at all....
I wish Catachan with a platoon squad attached would still get Scout. The platoon squad could get a heavy flamer and a couple of more flamers for fluff and would really help with overwatch against the enemy unit trying to break though. It's a glitchy oversight in my opinion.
Love the mordian glory reference in Other thoughts + counters
Was just considering this for unending swarm today, great timing!
Just something to keep in mind, Chaos Knights have a strap that lets them move through terrain for 1 cp. Not as easy to body block them.
Auspex's board state diagrams may lack any kind of perspective or scale but I love that he keeps slides as simple as possible.
In previous editions things like Fear, Terror and Tank Shock limited these tactics
Every time a new broken mechanic is discovered, it just reminds me of how much better older editions were.
@@Arantonak EVERY edition had stupid broken players that abused rules... need i remind you of INVISIBILITY, DEATHSTARS, NULL DEPLOYMENT, FLYERS, CP FARMS, BATTLE BROS etc etc tec
@@REDN0AK Yea but older editions also didnt pretend to be a competitive tournament game and treated it like a narrative. once we hit 8th edition a lot of charm went away, most is gone now in 10th.
Also getting VP for killing units.
@@Arantonak Ah yes my edition with non digitized rules, extremally powerful abilities hidden in obscure books that went out of print last month, and armies that required 30 dollar tome simply to try playing is better than the streamlined, modern edition.
Out riders were always good for this, surprisingly high wounds with marine saves really screws up your opponents moves.
I've done this with imperial guard vs black templars! With the combination of scout move and orders, I was able to charge two sentinels into a land raider with sword brethrens inside. Was able to delay them long enough to allow me to handle the other threats in the list staggered.
I have built this into my list. I've got a 40pt missionary who gives me d3+1 mirical dice when he dies and he can auto revive for 1 cp. I make sure I repeatedly point him out during deployment and turn1 then charge him screaming at my opponent to the nearest choke point. He has a 100% success record so far. It's great watching thier face as they spend min 1 turn trying to move round him without killing him before they work out that that stopping me getting 5 MD on average isn't worth a whole flank of thier army being stuck.
This video is incredibly useful, I was just trying to figure out how screening worked in 10th and then the video came out
I managed to pull this off once against a Monster Mash Chaos Demons army. Used mass Zerkers, Jakhals, Spawn and pinned the greater demons in their deployment zone. Adding Masters of Execution to my Zerker squads made my opponent very reluctant to charge me and I won on points. I ended up killing all his OC2 troops and ignored his Greater Demons. He broke the stalemate in turn 3 with Shalaxe and a Bloodthirster but by then I’d scored so much primary he couldn’t recover. Fascinating game.
Some Guard Player tried this with me and my Space Marine Vanguard Tank Force... Sure, my scouts and infiltrators couldn't get out of the deployment, but I did get the boltguns to start working on the units and then letting the Gladiators mop up afterwards...
In all of my lists I include at least 2 speed bump units. Nothing's more frustrating than having World Eaters or alike in your face BR1.
This strategy fits perfectly for my Tyranid Vanguard Onslaught.
Will defenitly test this on Some ‘willing test subjects’.
In our local meta we have tons of players who bank on SM death stars…
I used this to win the final game in a tournament against Knights. He chose fixed objectives and I used harpies, rippers and spore mines to keep him locked in his deployment zone for most of the game.
This is a really powerful strategy for AdMech. They have a lot of great options for this.
Sicarian Infiltrators, Pteraxii for deepstrike, Serberys Raiders and Skitarii Rangers in Dunerider for scout moves, and Ironstrider Engines are really cheap and fast T7, 3+ 5++, 7W models.
I brought a meta Tau list against world eaters my last game. I thought I had screened rather well until Angron flew almost 30" and destroyed my hammerhead turn 1. I also lost all of my screening units 😭. My 2 broadsides did basically no wounds to the rhino and my brick of crisis suits with 3x CIB did less than 5 damage to angron despite being guided. I'm tired.
Lol
yeahhh world eater hurt
Yeah unfortunately World Eaters and chaos demons are a bad match up for Tau general lists this edition. Hopefully the codex release will give us more flexibility to deal with them in the future.
@@Mr._Idiot440 Those are 2 of the most played factions at my lgs along with nuns with guns. This edition has not been fun for me to say the least. I've only been playing about a year and I have anxiety during deployment every game now 💀
Exact same thing happened to my Dark Angles. He deleted my Aggressor unit on the charge. Luckily this left him hanging right in front of my gun line and I managed to shoot him off the board and went on to win the game.
There's something similar to this concept in chess - gambits. You sacrifice a piece or pawn to get into a better position than the opponent. The problem is, you have to prove to the opponent that the gambit was worth it, and use it quickly to gain the upper hand - otherwise it's just a lost piece or pawn.
Forgot to mention the best unit in the game to do that: deatk korp of kriek cavalry...
I can't wait for them to decide this is a problem and make some band-aid rule to prevent it.
All the more reason why the best thing that could happen to Warhammer 40k would be to gut the entire rules system entirely and build a brand new one from scratch.
When I was learning how to play Orks in late 9th, I would do something similar but more aggressive. I'd call a turn 1 Great Waaaugh if my opponent deployed close enough and had two units of kommandos, a big brick of stormboyz, a unit of warbikers, and a twenty man blob of boyz da jumped by a Weirdboy all try to make turn 1 charges (orks used to have free rerolls) while I had Ghaz, Kans, grots and Trukks full of Dakka sit on the objectives. I played Blood Axes so the next turn I could fall back, shoot things up with the dakka, and then charge again to ensure I got fights first across the board. I'd also drop down dreads from strategic reserves and look for rerollable charges there.
The battle plan was to keep the opponent in their deployment zone as long as possible and soak up as much points as possible, then hang on for dear life until they tabled me
It was really fun. Had to completely relearn the game when tenth dropped and the playstyle was no longer viable though
By using fenrisian wolves with cyberwolf to get scout 6", they pretty good for screening unit, and keep the enemy in their own deplyment zone, and waiting the main unit can move to the center such as thunderwolves and terminators, works for me by using stormlance
Catachan + Taurox. 6" scout + 12" base move + 3" move order + 1d6 advance + 3" disembark = 25-30" move in your first turn.
Anathema Psykana Rhino with scouting Witchseekers to get the surprisingly durable for how cheap it is rhino chassis upfield is pretty neat.
Welcome back Auspex
The only reason people are move blocking so much is because this edition has been the edition of to much "stuff". Most armies just have a lot of units that they can just sling at you to stand in front of you to move block. Votann, Sisters, Ad Mech CSM, Death Guard. Being able go no prisoners in 9th and punish all of this chaff was great.
This. A little while ago GW re fought a classic battle from the end of Rouge Trader between Orks and Space Wolves. I reread the original WD battle report then watched the batrep on Warhammer TV and one thing immediately struck me.
The original game was 2k points and played on a 8’x4’ table. The re fight used as close as possible to the same armies used and the Space Wolves came in at a little over 1100pts and it is played on a far smaller table, 5’x 3.5’.
That tells its own story.
@@emceedoctorb3022 The old games on big boards has the issue of turn one and two just being advancing with very little else happening. While tactical it used to be very boring to play, the smaller boards means stuff happens from turn 1, but I do get that they feel a bit crowded at times.
@@Orannis01 Er no. You still started the same distance away as you do now, 24", so that argument doesn't hold water, I'm afraid. These days 40K feels like two 6 year olds with ADHD who have just eaten all of the blue Smarties getting their entire toy collections and just smashing them together in the middle of the board. 'feel a bit crowded' is the understatement of the century.
@@emceedoctorb3022Deployment was 24", but you could deploy at the back of the board to be further away. Since the small boards, some deployments you can start closer now.
@@Orannis01Bro that is how it is in Bolt Action and the game being like that is good. Things being able to happen turn 1 means potentially you just wasted your time driving out to play because your just going to set and get smashed turn 1 or be unable to hardly do anything all game because of this. It is 40ks biggest problem right now...
This really is the modern AdMech strategy. Actually take advantage of the excess of light fast movers
This kind of tactic is gonna be my next run with Slaanesh. The cheaper chariots can be taken in units of 2 and zip quite fast up the board. Plus 4+ inv and t6.
More tactics and rule details . Like necron codex change to can’t reanimate off the table . And how sharing keywords with leadership work
Now do one on the reverse of this:
"Lure out and deepstrike the rear!"
Of course this is most fun against melee armies but with dense LOS blockers this also works wonders against slow ranged units.
Remember: if you cannot leafblower the enemy from your deployment zone you most likely also cannot shoot stuff off your homebase while camping midfield objectives :3
I've been infiltrating terminators to much the same effect, it works pretty well
My Orks the past two years lol bikez, stormboyz, and hogz
This has worked for deathwing for several editions. 4sqds 5m, 2 in landraiders, 2 in deepstrike, trap opponent in deployment zone.
Armies with infiltrate + scout units can do this in all games (even when going second). T'au and space marines for example
Can be devastating against certain armies (especially those relying on big models and lack of flyers). Basically wasting one of their turns for the cost of 2-3 cheap units.
Is this finally something admech could be quite good at?
Three units of raiders, infiltrators and rangers in duneriders could easily get across the board turn 1, 9 units and three vehicles for 900 points.
You could even follow it up with 6 units of pteraxii deep striking next turn to tarpit it further.
Now I think, dear lordy 9 radium jezzail sydonian dragoons with their tough profile and big bases would absolutely gum everything up.
It's called the Chicken Coop.
It can be very situation really depending on the game and army. Some stuff literally won't care about screen and some stuff gets crippled by it like World eaters.
The only reason I don't do this every game with all my Hormagaunts is that it takes forever to move them all. But "Gaunts as speed bumps" is a wonderful strategy
Movement trays not helping?
@@WilhelmScreamer I don't own any yet, so I don't know.
whats really weird is that ad mech is super good at this right now. loads of high mobility options, access to advance shenanigans, and chicken walkers being way to tanky for the points
Dang it, I wanted to do this secretly but my freinds see your videos too!
Been undefeated with this list. Three chaos beastmen units iin rhinos scouting all mark of slannesh, three units of seeker scouting, three units of inflitrating nurgling. By the time all of that is cleared out the game is over on points, just take some oblits and forgefiends, a chosen lord or two.
I did this with admech against chaos daemons and custodes. Its very effectiven, admech have alot of units that are perfect for this lind of play
This is how I’ve been using my Valkyries, completely immobilized some Necrons I was up against
Enemy units can still make a normal or advance move even if they are within engagement range of aircrafts and they can move over them as long as they have enough movement to clear engagement range.
@@samronco5133 not if you put it in Hover mode, then it effectively becomes a skimmer
this is what I am doing since the tyranid codex dropped. and I haven't lost a single game with the strategy.. I play the endless swarm, 3 units of von ryans straight up as close as possible to their DZ move blocking and ready to charge, some lictor variants, 3 units of hormagaunts, 3 units of gargoyles and then 3 units of termagaunts.
I basically charge into the opponents deploymentzone turn 1 with at least 3 units, trapping multiple units in combat often, and follow this up with waves of hormagaunts in the middle of the field turn 1, gargoyles swarming the board and dropping fro mthe sky. and by turn two the whole board is just covered in my models, enemies unit can not move or even leave their deployment, especially shooty lists just die to this.. some melee armies, llike the new necron wraiths and world eaters CAN deal with, because they have to volume to kill more that a troop my guys each turn.. but in general I win every game because I score max primary while my oppoennts often only score like 0-20 points on primary.
this is why my dred mob has a Skorcha dred, overwatch down light units as they try to block my nauts.
This could be detrimental against some lists though. Say against a combat dreadnought list (say space wolves) with a 6” move this could actually mean the opponent gets closer with charging depending on where exactly you place your screen.
Just food for thought though I’ve done this a few times and it has been helpful. Great video as always auspex hope you’re doing better.
Yeah its not a onesize fits all strategy but this is super nice to stall out certain big pieces or slow and out score them on primary and secondary.
@@keyanklupacs6333 definitely. I’ve used this against everything from knights to baneblades to terminators. Just thought I’d play devils advocate and hopefully spark conversation like this.
Grey Knights "Oh no... Anyway!"
Jakhals with Scout and then +2 move can get pretty far upfield, and then if you go for the +1 FNP and put a prince nearby that starts to get obnoxious
You can use a Librarian Dreadnaught to do this too
AoS 101 = 40k advanced tactics
Love the video.
Admech does this very well historically
Easy counter: deep strike. Just deploy your reserves behind them and pincer.
Issue:
Blocking armies from being able to move, thus removing their ability to score for enough of a portion of the game, to ensure a winning score can become impossible for them to achieve.
(NB: This has actually been an issue, to a lesser extent, since 8ed)
Potential Solutions:
Return to 6' x 4' board
Return to 6 turns
Adjust scoring rules
Restore earlier edition versions of terrain rules/ interaction for vehicles & monsters
Bring back old version of Tank Shock
Analysis:
20+ years of rules editions sticking to certain principles was for a reason.
However, constant shifting of rules writers who don't know/recall the reason for certain rules being removed/ always being there- combined with not having a central repository recording such reasons/decisions, and the internal 'gurus' of the game having now all retired- leads to the repetition of mistakes and the failure of the game to actually progress. Instead, many of its fundamentals regress.
WOLF JAIL!
Kroot Carnivores??
This was my first 40k game in more than 20 years. It was against a Goff pressure list and I never got out of my deployment zone. Not cheating but not a fair fight either! 😅
Well now you know what to do to avoid getting got in the same way next time
I’ve been considering a kroot and pathfinder front line for Tau; kroot to counter chaff and move block, and pathfinders to guide and do a railgun “alpha strike”. Anybody have input on the idea?
There's no way no one knew about this tactic. What did people think the best use of cheap infiltrate was?
god i miss tank shock
Could this work with a Drop Pod? 70 points to deep strike on turn one. 7 toughness, 3+ saves, and 8 wounds. Can you deploy 3 empty drop pods turn one to block off a big section of the battlefield?
Its a dreadnaught in a drop pod. Keeps most opponents from moving, which allows the rest of yours to take board, and lock them in place turn 2, with the rest of reserves. Try 4sqds 5m terminators, 2 in landraiders, 2 in reserve.
Deathrider squadron too expensive for this?Squadron commander gives them infiltrate, and the large base +unite size of 10 gives them a wide footprint. Is the screening line ability meant for this? They have
but you no can deploy 9" of enemy zone and if you got second turn, you can in roundo 2 turn 1 use rapid ingress to get an objetive
Infiltrate or scout with fast moving units that advance can get you just outside the enemy deployment zone to block some movement lanes.
If i unit has the ability "this unit can shoot and move" does attaching a leader mean it can't be used? I thought leaders become part of the unit so any ability that says "unit" still works?
As far as I know it works how you said.
This sorta tactic makes me think of whether there'll ever be a way to an opponents unit into reserve. Would need to have restrictions and be pretty expensive but is interesting design space
How do Aircraft work, i still don't get it. can you do something about flying in 10th.
Don't the Ctan have fly so blocking them is kinda impossible?
You can move block a flyer, its just harder. Don't give them a landing spot outside 1"
yeah flying kind of sucks now with it counting the vertical movement…Pythagorean theorem was not what I wanted to be practicing here.
Flying now counts vertical? Well just when i thought 10th couldnt sound any less fun to play😂
@@colonelturmeric558 I think it only counts if you fly over terrain. Double check that for sure, but cruising over models is fine. Or maybe it was just if you moved up or down, not just over.
Yknow, idk. Check your rulebook folks
@@yeturs69420yeah it only counts for terrain. Weird when a CSM defiler is about as maneuverable as a jump pack unit because the defiler ignores terrain up to 4” high and can move over friendly monsters and vehicles specifically
Oh boy a broken rule that can effectively become Overpowered...
I'm shocked that GW would release something so broken it's not like it happens pretty much every edition/codex and FAQ 😂
Wasn't there a green text story back in the day years ago where someone won a match with scouts in certain locations on the board ?
You think that GW would have learned this lesson years ago but nope....
Typical GW.
I mean, it makes sense from a tactical "real world" perspective tbh too, put units in to block the enemy and stop them from pushing through/buy time
Ah, the infamous “Kroot Conga Line”
@@brotherhao4225except, you know, a tank can just drive over infantry
@@MurdersMachine and for that we have tank shock :D
The guy that Lost that way totally deserved It. He was a power gamer Who used a cheese White Scars biker list that allowed him null deployment.
The Tau player knew his gimmick and was smart enough to completly deny any White Scars deployment
The face of the power gamer when he realised he Lost with his invincible list without even rolling a dice is priceless😅😅😅😅
Nice , but how do oeople do that , when no one can buy primaris scouts .
1). Lots of other scouting options exist
2). People using older models that are still valid as game pieces.
I do this all the time with 20 boyz and a weird boy
"IGUG is perfectly balanced" /s
Utter clown-show that this is even conditionally possible.
When one's footprint is so big, small shoes can cause pain. -SonSueDownUnderArtOfwar
Omg first on auspex?
I've got to be honest, anything to do with rules "shenanigans " or rules lawyering is what ruins the game of 40k for me. If you've got a decent opponent there should always be an element of sportsmanship that means that your massive war machine can't be stun-locked by a chest high wall or a similar technicality. That said, I have been far more likely to screw up a key units movement because I had put one of my own units in front of it and they weren't able to get past or into the position I wanted because I moved things in the wrong order.
this does not work vs Chaosknights
No one can beat an admech army with 3 clown 🤡 stilt walkers
Add a comment...😢
competitive 40k and everyone that plays it are a joke.
Yeah but that can be said about a lot of games. Bolt action, warmachine, hearthstone, league of legends.
Everyone that has fun being part of a competitive gaming community is a joke? You sound like a miserable person
Non-competitive 40K and every whiner that plays it, is a joke.
This sounds like an extremely stupid mechanic that only goes to highlight the horrid design of the 40K tabletop game
Home brew all the way