Customer Drove 6 HOURS...for THIS? (Ford No-Crank REPAIR + Lights!)
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2023
- Customer overnighted a brand-new Ford Motorcraft starter to get his F550 Powerstroke Wrecker back on the road.
Let's bench-test and install the new starter motor on the truck, and then diagnose why some of the auxilliary lights don't work.
MAGIC TEST LIGHT:
www.amazon.com/dp/B000M5ZWBA?...
ASTRO DC AMP CLAMP:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08MTCMWLB?...
Enjoy!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
So why was the control side of the starter relay not lighting up the test light? I think it was the ground side. In part 1 of the video.
Yeah, thats bugging me too ,maybe the test light connections were not good he checked it again and forgot to put it in the video?
I think the PCM was too smart and didn't like my test light LOL
Damn witchcraft magic boxes hahah@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics correct I think it's like the same thing when the heater control is ground side switch by the pcm but if the pcm doesn't see 12v it won't pull to ground
Possibly the most amazing thing about your videos is that you're able to get the camera where it needs to be while working with one hand.
Not to mention working in the dark and in the cold.
One would assume (incorrectly) that the flood lights being LED technology meant that the amp draw would be low. Good thing you checked it!!! That's good follow-up!
FYI: There are LED assemblies that are packed with high power diodes that WILL test your fuses.
I’d say the customer made the best decision possible. I hope this video gets him more business! Excellent job Ivan!
The customer better get himself some new tires.
I've seen too many starters fail, I'm talking in the 80s and we're heading for 2024 and it's even worse. I ended up sending all my starters, DC motors to this older gentleman , instead of testing armatures with 120 volts, he'd send a 1000 volts through it . He gave me a demonstration one day and wow open solder joints would clearly be seen. BTW, Ivan the way you document all your findings is top notch, can't get enough of your videos.
With these work lights, I keep the original relay with OEM trigger but feed the load power directly from the battery with 12ga wire instead of the fuse panel. When several of these high powered work lights are used, they draw a lot of amps and OEM fuse boxes aren't setup for that type of load. Usually I introduce an aux fuse circuit box to power high amp aux loads such as beacons, emergency strobe lights, work lights, and the like so they do not interfere with OEM system functions.
The equipment installer did a poor job, it helps to know a little bit about electricity.
This is why you don’t up-size OEM fuses! Also, don’t replace a fast blow with a slow-blow or (gasp) a self-resetting relay.
Great diag on the lights! I was just rewiring my Aux switches to work on my Aux battery, so the diagram was very fresh on my mind.😀
Nice! Looks like you have a serious workshop on wheels! 👍
Hi Ivan, some people think 'Oh it is only 12volts, it will do no harm,' not understanding the heat current draw creates with a high load. Tell him to carry a fire extinguisher, haha. Many thanks for another lesson in diagnostics. Many thanks again from UK.
You make a good point. I'd think most tow/wrecker services have at least one extinguisher onboard given the variables with each job.
Ivan you have to make a "Parts Cannon" tee-shirt
When a fuse blows, it means that too much current is passing through the circuit. Replacing a blown fuse with a higher amp rating fuse merely guarantees the circuit will get damaged, and could start a fire!
My take on installing high loads is to use a relay or even multiple relays and sufficient wiring area all the way. Never load an ECU unnecessarily. However today you'd also need diodes to capture voltage spikes from the relays.
Replacing a fuse with a higher amp rated fuse merely means you'll find the weak link in the chain😂😂😂
Or it was rubbing caused it to short to ground
@@ricardorodriguez-se7tp Ivan showed at the end that both lamps together were drawing over 10A. Thats why they upped the amp to 15A, to stop the lights from overloading & blowing the fuse. But the circuit was not designed to handle more than 10A, therefore it melted the connector. That is best case scenario, because this could have easily started a fire and burned the entire rig. Moral of the story is, installing a larger fuse to remedy blowing fuses is a HUGE NO NO!!
electric power blows fuses
Well done, the thoughtful fault finding process has to be especially challenging when you are freezing. Hopefully the owner rewarded you well, looks like a cared for truck.
I used to turn wrenches at a service station back in the eighties and we would get parts from a few select parts houses. I remember that one time a particular line of starters from one remanufacturer had a defective run on starters resulting in us and the parts people having to make a repeat run to the parts house for a starter that would work.
I would maybe advise the customer that he needs to source new rear flood lights that draw less than 5A each. I’m sure there must be more modern LED floodlights that draw less than 6A in his day and age. But nice work as always Ivan.
Or instal a relay with a separet power source
The rear floodlights look like LED already. My guess is the mangled wiring at the back of the truck blew the original 10A fuse, which someone replaced with a 15A without finding the cause, it then continued to short intermittently with the larger fuse installed and melted the connector instead.
Missed the bit at the end. Even so, the pin must be running a bit close to the edge. If that’s melted with 12A, it’s going to still be getting pretty hot at 10A
@@petesmith2234A big 10-4 on that. A 10A OE fuse should only carry approximately 7-1/2A maximum with intermittent use. This job is not done.
@@Adam-bw4lwI second the relay solution. He can preserve all original functionality by having the switch trigger a relay and put as many amps on the load side he needs without worrying about OEM wiring limitations.
Great job Ivan. No matter how difficult a diagnosis may look, I'm no longer surprised by your skills. Thanks for the video.
Should keep both lights and 1 part requires. A relay to power lights.
Simply the best...you should open a accademy. You are not just a amazing electro-mecanic wizard but also a very good teacher.
I enjoy sharing experiences and learning from other people too! :)
Dealer: "we installed a new OEM starter".
Also dealer: "I'm Batman, damnit".
You perform yet another miracle well done young man you’re brilliant😊
Good job Ivan maybe a relay for the back up lights triggered by that melted wire.
Another good one, Ivan. Love the effort you put into setting up the shots to take us along for almost every aspect of the diagnosis. Always learning something from you. Thanks!
The starter spinning up was great. Fixed, shorts required.....
Thank you Ivan. You always make everything look so easy. We all know this ease comes with tons of trial and error and lengthy experience,, and sometimes internet help, and understanding complex wiring schematics. Another great outcome
The whole idea of troubleshooting is to minimize trial and error.
@@tedmossI think he meant early in his career he had the trial and error. With experience much less so.
Considerable thought went into designing and building the test lamp system.
I also love the “live-dead-live” test, where he takes nothing for granted
Great job Ivan, I installed one these and used most of my ratch extensions. After this I'm glad I used a new OEM starter. I replaced a starter on a different vehicle that the customer replaced multiple times with a rebuilt starter and the auto store always replaced at no charge, I used a new OEM starter and the problem stopped. Lesson learned.😊
Yeah that truck had 500k and the owner cheaped out on the starter- get what you pay for. And the dealer should never put reman parts on for greediness, knows it’s coming back in a year
@Dirtyharry70585 I'm not sure how the customer cheaped out. After dealer told him he needed a starter he asked the Ford dealer to install a new Ford starter so obviously they installed a reman starter. I wonder if they compounded their incompetence by charging him for a new starter?
I have heard of this problem with bad parts, in the old days it wasn't much of a problem, things have really gone downhill. I recently bought several non-oem parts and had no trouble.🤞
Always great watching the master at work. Very satisfying to see every single issue resolved with a clear and logical approach. Happy Holidays, Ivan.
tHanks for the step by step on the reverse lights.
We would just wire in a 40A relay to power auxillaries like those spotlights... If he's happy with 1 light, all good.☺☺
About time you build yourself a nice repair garage. As you get older, that laying on a cold ground sucks.
This sadly proves how hard it is to find a good mechanic nowadays, for some people, the closest is 6 hrs away
What's really sad is the backup light problem - just two burned out bulbs. D'oh!!
I would use that a supply to switch a relay on & have it connected to a heavier gauge fused wire to save burning up the BCM.
I have done that on a couple of Toyota SV21 Camrys where Toyota earthed the high beam headlamps through the headlamp switch stalk, they eventually had high resistance in them at full load current so the fix was to have the headlamp switch switch on a relay rather than the headlamps themselves !
Great idea. I was just about to add the same thing when I happened to look through the comments.
I like when you say, "Let's see if this PIG will fire up!" when you work on large equipment : )
I had a similar situation at work with one of the work trucks they installed an air compressor for airbags without using the proper gauge wire and stuck a 30 amp fuse in. It had melted the fuse holder to the fuse and melted the wire. I ran the proper gauge wire installed a relay and fuse holder at the battery and used the wire coming off the uppfiter relay to turn the higher amp rated relay i installed on and off.
Good job Ivan, the starter issue is typical of Ford dealers, quote a ridiculous price to repair because you don't want to work on it anymore. On the lights, like the old Ford headlight switches that use to melt from headlight current going through it, I would take a 14 gauge wire from battery+ to a new separate relay, removing all that current from the headlight switch. He would need to do the same for this or get lower amp lights.
I've never been a fan of running high current directly through switches...that's what relays are for!
Amazing-a Dealer Tech would have never check the flood lights for overamperage...Great job.
the upfitter stuff from ford is great as it offers aux relays and isolation from main systems also allows you to adjust throttle speed as needed for PTO hydraulic pump for aftermarket accessories.
Drove 6 hours for this? Of course...to get it fixed by someone who knows proper diagnostic steps. You mentioned the business has its own mechanics...obviously they are not up to the job on these kinds of problems. Well done Ivan...well done.
then they aren't mechanics , they are part fitters.
Great diagnosis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ivan is like the energizer bunny nothing stops him when all those open wires under the fender WTF nope laughs .
Obviously, the new starter fixed the problem, but I don't understand why you were getting those fault readings on the relay trigger side wiring and why the guy had stripped out the wheel arches to wiggle the wires to get it to start. ???
He was chasing a red herring by wiggling the wires... If he had just retired starting the vehicle, or held the key in the crank position it would have started eventually, just like it did with Ivan. Wiggling the harness was doing nothing, but the owner thought it was.
@@volvo09 still don't see why Ivan was getting those readings off of the relay control side.
Well done Ivan. Thanks!
Low voltage creates higher current draws. Bolt on battery cable ends, dirty charge wire returns and other connections near the battery need Love too,Low Volt Starts kill alternators too.
When I worked for the L.A
D.W.P., I would see MANY wiring and other electrical mistakes. It could be right away with a new vehicle or after it's been in operation for a while. When it's on a gas/diesel/oil truck, I red tagged it.
RELAYS are your's and the vehicle's friend. Those two lights needed a relay that the switch could control. Those Ford installed "Upfitter" switches were only good for about 10 amps, but not constantly. The burned connector pins are only good for 5 or less amps. Been There Done That.
I used Cole Hersee relays. THEY WORKED GREAT! There were also some smaller 20 or 25 Amp 4 and 5 pin relays and GM had a relay socket with 12 Gauge wires that also word great!
Good one Ivan.
Ivan you need a backup beeper in your connector test lead box no more walking back to rear of vehicles, wiggle test up front beeper going off in the back
You're amazing Ivan.
You could add another relay driven by the existing relay, and some heavier wiring from a more suitable source back to those power hungry rear lights.
Great couple of video's thanks Ivan!
Brilliant analysis. Bravo.
Another brilliant diagnostic. Well done.
Reminds me of when I took a small block 350 out of my 62 corvette and put a 396 big block in. In the winter on gravel. I used a farm tractor with a boom on the back. I blew up the numbers matching 327 put a junkyard 350 in it and blew it up. 1974 I was young crazy and stupid 😂. The big block survived. The rear end did not. It went 110 mph in the quarter mile. Spinning old bias plied tires. After installing a 12 bolt rear end with 4:56 gears. Yee ha.
Ivan, Thanks for another great repair. Boy you have got to get off the ground, and in the heat. Cheers
I love watching you solve these puzzles, you're awesome!
Superb, as always!
Thanks and - WE ARE - GO PENN STATE !
Thanks for the video Ivan. Figured it all out again.
Good job Ivan! Now we know why customers will drive an insane amount of miles and time to get their cars diagnosed by you and most of the time get the right fix weather parts or no parts required.
Great diagnostics again.. takes a lot of patience and know how. Love your vids and great work... Thx
you and eric o should have a meet and greet. love to meet u guys
Was hoping you’d do a bonus footage on the old starter and get it to mess up with direct power feed. And if the solenoid could be opened, see if it was full of the green crusties
I think that went back for a refund
@@dennisharvey4499 still could have bench tested it, and if the solenoid opens could have looked inside
@@braaapattack2937 if you are returning a part you shouldnt mess with it
The brand new starters cost more, sometimes much more, than rebuilt ones..So that dealer may have overcharged your customer for that other "new" starter. Also, I'd probably keep that truck a couple days if it was me, just in case, just to see how it starts. They said if they wiggled the wires it would start.
you are awesome ivan!!!! what a guy!!!...wish we had you in the uk
Great job, Ivan! The new starter sure sounded healthy. Maybe power the floodlights from a reliable fused source, instead of the BCM, and keep both active.
Use the bcm source to trigger a relay and run a separate hot from the battery. There might be another battery feed in that bed or under the dash which could work as a source too.
@@sumduma55 Yep, that's even better.
LEDs don't usually draw much power, these are way inefficient.
@@tedmoss I was thinking the same. 6 amps at 12 volts is like 72 watts. These are pulling high beam headlight wattage each.
@@sumduma55 Sure but maybe they are doing like 300-500W equivalent halogen in lumens? Hard to tell on camera.
I hate finding aftermarket wiring in any vehicle that I buy (only buy used) because you do not know if it has been installed correctly (whether by so called professional shops or back yarders ) & I always chase out the wiring to make sure what it goes to & if it works then check specs & either remove or replace if it is needed.Cheers mate for your dedication working in the cold& dark.
Great work as always 👏
Years ago the starter solenoid used to be separate from the starter motor. Much more fixable.
the master at work
Great series!
I would have thought the bare wires going to the spotlights would have caused a short and blew the fuse. Of course, the best solution is to replace the fuse with a BIGGER fuse with no regard for the wiring capacity or the possibility of shorts, etc. I wouldn't have thought those LED spotlights would pull that much amperage. I recognized those upfitter switches; both of my trucks have them and I knew they were on the OEM wiring diagram. GREAT VIDEO!
When a previous garage replaces a starter and it won't start, you should check this starter. Lower the starter and hook up a remote starter switch. Check for voltage going to the starter. If there's voltage, replace the starter. Ivan starts at the furthest end and works his way up. Eric and Ivan show off their fancy equipment. Backyard mechanic methods are quicker sometimes.
When a vehicle comes in with a long and complicated history, you have to carefully gather data BEFORE touching anything! Say you hook up your remote switch in place of the relay, and the problem was poor contact at the relay... BOOM you just blew your whole diagnosis! I like being efficient, but I get paid to be accurate and guarantee the result with nothing overlooked. That's the difference compared to "backyard" methods. 😉
BTW a scanner and some test lights is not "fancy equipment" in this age haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I meant hook up a remote starter switch to the starter. If it don't start, check for voltage. If it has voltage, drop the starter and replace it. Ford couldn't fix it. A dealer mechanic should recheck the starter. Somebody at Ford should be fired.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Just my $0.02: I have YET to see a car you were unable to diagnose. That Ford Probe you worked on last year was just a piece of junk.
Good job Great video and thank you.
Ivan there is a round connector on passenger side inside Fender well that isolates the solenoid all late model ford trucks food for thought
Nice work as usual
Good morning Ivan. Absolutely great videos as always. 60107 USA says hi.
good job.
Hi Ivan, the starter probably has a dead spot on the commutator, likely the dealer just told the owner the the starter was changed because it started working again
Flat rate strikes again
If Ivan was a doctor specialist he would certainly be the one you’d want to go for a second opinion Ivan saves another one 👍
So the starter was definitely bad, but what was the cause of the missing relay ground feed in part 1? Some kind of 'smart' behavior by the PCM when it detected the circuit was not complete?
Yeah PCM was too "smart" ;)
Man o man great thinker.
Man you are good at tracing down those wiring problems. My cousin owns a Chevy dealership in your area Stocker Chevrolet
Merry Christmas to you and your family, Never miss your videos I am hoping you levy a little extra for working in the cool air Bill N LI NY
Nice find and fix Ivan. But those LED lights are not what was originally installed to that bed. I had a similar year F550 flatbed with the same problem. I couldn't get the wiring diagram for that system, and it took me a few hours to trace that circuit. The connector was melted so bad, I couldn't even unplug it. So, I just installed a standalone fuse and relay outside the BCM. They have been working fine for over 4 years now.
Perhaps suggesting to the customer that he use another of the switches so he can turn on the lights on one side or the other, or both. I agree a relay might help prevent overloading the connector and the BCM/GEM/SJB whatever they call it today. Got all those switches, use them... tom
The other 3 are occupied by beacons, top light bar, PTO for the tow hydraulics :)
Crazy that they run the power feed for the relay through the BCM like that.
For sure I'd bypass the BCM.
Check the wire gauge from the relay to the back. If it's safe for 15A, run fused power direct to existing relay.
If not, it needs new wiring to the lights.
If it were me I would run larger power wire to back of truck install relay and use ford power wire to activate relay. Problem solved and have plenty of light. I enjoy watching your videos!
Way to go IVAN BUDDY! Also; I wear 4XL T-shirts. 😊😊
I think I heard You mention that the owner had mechanics that could not figure this out. I’m thinking they may be slightly diagnostically challenged. Nice work Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸
The appropriate title should have been, Let there be light!
He should have went to diag school before starting a tow company would have helped him alot👍💰🎓
Excellent
Winner winner
Smart stuff man. I don’t know what you bill people…. But your knowledge is valuable, & I hope people appreciate that & compensate you accordingly!
I think he’s 165/hour…the last time I looked it was on his website I believe. Very fair in my opinion especially when you have a complex issue and just need it fixed right the first time. Like my grandfather use to say, pay cheap pay twice.
@@hokie9910 Only $140/hr if you bring it here ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics ok, gotcha.
The starter will come out between the frame rail and the oil filter, but is a very tight fit. It has to be skimmed out very carefully.
The starter needs to flipped the starter gear downward and has to be turn a certain way before it will come out.
Well done , good decision by the owner to get a second opinion ,wiring harness change a big job did you tidy up that mess of a harness . I thought for sure it was the harness after the wiggle testing but you did the full testing not assumed the harness was crook. Theres good reasons people travell big distances to get you to do their dias.
Hi Ivan maybe just supply another 15 amp circuit across the burned plug to keep the rear lights operational. my question is what size is the wire, is it large enough for the extra current (5) amps.
Probs not, that’s why it over heated. Customer didn’t have a knowledgeable person sell or install the lamps to them.
you could hook the lights in series to reduce the current by half. It would spread the light out better.
I discovered the problem test driving a toy -took it home and drove it for the week end to try to catch it doing it. We took it out Saturday night with some of the other mechanic friends ( was the 1970s don’t judge)and coming home from the ah let’s just say ah restaurants late when there was a big snap sound from the starter area -Toy stalled electrical burn smell starter fried! We were just driving down the road at about 40 mph! Crazy but true.
I HATE WIRING mostly because I was never educated in it & my Oldest Son is an Electrician, LOL.
BLESS YOU IVAN for doing what you do & being SO DAMN GOOD AT IT.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU, ALL THE ONES YOU LOVE & YOUR LITTLE DAG TOO.
OH, Can't forget the MOVING RUBBER GARAGE HOSE, EEK. HAPPY RODENT HUNTING.
Henry from N.E. PA.
Merry Christmas, Henry!
Had the same problem with reman alternators, after 2 remans tried a brand new one.
Problem solved!
The penny in the fuse box solution with the same results.
Take a look at GM 4 Pin Relay 13506836 Headlamp Driver Module, this is the gray module, NOT the black module. It takes the BCM "trigger lead", which can drive very little current, as in NOT a relay coil, to turn on LED headlamps. You can put this inline from the melting BCM pin, to carry the current elsewhere, possibly to a regular "coil" relay.
Nice!
Probably too late now, but i would have liked to see a disassembly of the solenoid on the rebuilt starter.
Thorough and excellent diag as always of course, not meant to take away from that. Just greedy for root cause on that starter.
1 or2 of the relays in the upfitter switch are meant for higher amperage loads for stuff like that