Quick addition RE silencing the author - I find that I am in the minority here, in that I prefer not to speak during my workshops, whereas it seems most people don’t like this policy. Which I totally get! Feeling like you have to sit there silently while people critique your story can be uncomfortable, and often unproductive. The reason I prefer it is because I find being asked questions about my story, my intention with the story, etc. on the spot impedes my ability to absorb feedback. However, I think the reason I have had very good experiences with being silenced in workshop (compared to most people) is because my workshops have always had a strong emphasis on objective, respectful feedback. Though I have had bad workshop experiences, for the most part I was lucky to be part of a very supportive, perceptive, open-minded workshop culture and environment where the focus was on helping the author improve and almost everyone did deep, perceptive, thoughtful readings. If a workshop is disrespectful, then silencing the author can quickly become a terrible experience and lead to the author feeling attacked, and feeling like they are expected to just bear brutal critique for an hour while they sit there in silence (not fun or productive). On the flip side, a workshop where the author is expected to speak can be uncomfortable or feel like an interrogation if the workshop is not approaching things respectfully. So no matter what, there should always be a focus on objective, supportive, helpful feedback, and beyond that, pick the method that you think would help you get the most out of your workshop. For me that usually means not speaking, but everyone is different!
Brandon Sanderson, in his Brigham Young University lecture series (available on UA-cam) makes it a rule for his workshops, that the writer doesn't say anything.
Hi shealin, I've been writing a long story for a while now, only I'm not sure if it's something, and I'd like to know if their could be improvements to my writing style. Would you like to give me sone feetback on it ?
"You can give perfectly honest, useful critique that isn't brutal." Totally agree. It doesn't take much effort to make sure things are being done with respect! Thank you for bringing this up
For people who don’t have workshops available through formal education- I have had some good luck finding workshops integrated into writing courses with standalone organizations. I took a couple of courses on Zoom with Gotham Writers workshop and had a great experience. Both courses had groups form from the participants that still meet after the course is over. There are other sources like Grub Street, etc. I have personal experience with both, and they’ve been great. Both also offer asynchronous courses that have workshop components. These can be pricey, but I’ve found them to be worth it, and the group I still meet with via Zoom is now free of course since we’re doing our own thing. Thanks for all the amazing content, Shaelin.
Workshop is about improving everyone's understanding of the craft, and we do that by looking at one story at a time. Each writer's voice will contribute, so long as they are honest and caring. Not about handing in/editting something into the perfect piece. It's a place to fail safely and learn from those failures with people who care about you and believe in your work. Super cool time!!
Perfectly helpful! I'm organising a writing club/workshop in a school I work at, so it's for teens-tweens (12-17), and everything has to be thought through carefully, and arranged nicely to create safe, comfortable, creative atmosphere. There's a lot to think about!
Haha that is one that you guys are *not* going to get for privacy reasons (let's just say 'tea' is not the right word to describe what happened. I think the right word for the situation would be 'traumatic')
As an incoming Creative Writing student, my most anticipated part of my program are the Workshop classes (but we don’t get them until second year where I’m from ☹️)
On the Author talking during the workshop, what worked best for me was once everyone had their say they would end by going quickly once more through the group and ask any questions they had, then the author got the opportunity to respond to those questions as well as any feedback they felt they needed to respond to. Yeah every once in a while you get someone who feels the need to defend themselves rather than engage with the criticism and ask questions of their own, but a quick mention of 'hey dude I think you were engaging with the criticism from a defensive point' at the end after adjourning enough that they could come to the next session from a better place
This was helpful. Particularly the protocol for who has the floor during a given round of the workshop. And your anecdote at the end, the thing your classmate said ..... good god, I felt my sphincter tighten like Fort Knox. And then the mirth inside me rumbled. Even by the standards of a college campus, that was quite the take.
Students feeling safe and respected is the ground on which any workshop must rest, as you say. Adrienne Miller (*In the Land of Men*) said she tended to reject Esquire story submissions which had a too workshoppy feel. She published Elizabeth McCracken and had a close editorial relationship with David Foster Wallace. You favour diversity, heterodoxy, risk and the dangerous edge so your workshop would be like that too, Shaelin.
There is probably a discussion & future follow up video about the utility of Zoom/Slack/Discord in workshopping StoryCraft development. As someone lacking experience and gifted with no expectations I imagine the platform can hinder & sing to people depending on their needs & time commitments.
Hi Shaelin, I know you have written several stories at a younger age silver bird etc. , I was wondering if maybe you could do another video (like the one you did a few years ago) but reading parts of them, passages from them. I think it would be great to know how an amazing writer like you started out, because me (and most of us when starting out) face issues with confidence and I have read some of your stories I adore them, I’d like to have an idea of where you started. It’s up to you whether you want too, but I just thought it might be fun to see, and for you to just cringe and laugh at your past projects for a little while.
I seriously love your videos. A small request, can you please make a video on how to read books which are difficult to understand and contains difficult words. I am not a really experienced reader so I need some help.
Hey, Shaelin! I am not trying to be rude or anything and I don’t know if you look over other people’s writing pieces. BUT IF you do, may you look over mine? You can decline if you want. I was just wanting someone to look over my writing piece and see if there are any mistakes or anything I need to fix or work on. ❤️
A great book I've heard recommended for new perspectives on workshop is "Craft in the Real World" by Matthew Salesses, about how a lot of traditional workshop values were established by white male writers, with craft that's been informed by very specific cultural values. Salessess really upends some of the foundations in Western workshop critique for anyone who's interested!
Great character idea! A novel writer who who has the unfortunate habit of kidnapping other authors she likes and imprisoning them in her basement to work as her editors. In exchange she feeds them and doesn’t murder them in their sleep. Now what genre should she write? Hmm.......
Any tips for a man writing a female character's perspective? I have a character. she is bisexual, and bipolar. so you see. it is a practice in purposeful skitzophrenic-like brain compartmentalization. And i need a dysfunctional mind's analysis.
Read books with women’s POV’s, research how women might feel/experience certain situations, get feedback from women on your story, etc. Ask different types, Especially neurodiverse women
Quick addition RE silencing the author - I find that I am in the minority here, in that I prefer not to speak during my workshops, whereas it seems most people don’t like this policy. Which I totally get! Feeling like you have to sit there silently while people critique your story can be uncomfortable, and often unproductive. The reason I prefer it is because I find being asked questions about my story, my intention with the story, etc. on the spot impedes my ability to absorb feedback. However, I think the reason I have had very good experiences with being silenced in workshop (compared to most people) is because my workshops have always had a strong emphasis on objective, respectful feedback. Though I have had bad workshop experiences, for the most part I was lucky to be part of a very supportive, perceptive, open-minded workshop culture and environment where the focus was on helping the author improve and almost everyone did deep, perceptive, thoughtful readings. If a workshop is disrespectful, then silencing the author can quickly become a terrible experience and lead to the author feeling attacked, and feeling like they are expected to just bear brutal critique for an hour while they sit there in silence (not fun or productive). On the flip side, a workshop where the author is expected to speak can be uncomfortable or feel like an interrogation if the workshop is not approaching things respectfully. So no matter what, there should always be a focus on objective, supportive, helpful feedback, and beyond that, pick the method that you think would help you get the most out of your workshop. For me that usually means not speaking, but everyone is different!
So true. Omg could not have worded it better
Brandon Sanderson, in his Brigham Young University lecture series (available on UA-cam) makes it a rule for his workshops, that the writer doesn't say anything.
Hi shealin, I've been writing a long story for a while now, only I'm not sure if it's something, and I'd like to know if their could be improvements to my writing style. Would you like to give me sone feetback on it ?
My creative writing professor didn't allow the author to speak, which I liked because it let the author see how the piece was worked by itself.
"You can give perfectly honest, useful critique that isn't brutal." Totally agree. It doesn't take much effort to make sure things are being done with respect! Thank you for bringing this up
For people who don’t have workshops available through formal education- I have had some good luck finding workshops integrated into writing courses with standalone organizations. I took a couple of courses on Zoom with Gotham Writers workshop and had a great experience. Both courses had groups form from the participants that still meet after the course is over. There are other sources like Grub Street, etc. I have personal experience with both, and they’ve been great. Both also offer asynchronous courses that have workshop components. These can be pricey, but I’ve found them to be worth it, and the group I still meet with via Zoom is now free of course since we’re doing our own thing.
Thanks for all the amazing content, Shaelin.
Workshop is about improving everyone's understanding of the craft, and we do that by looking at one story at a time. Each writer's voice will contribute, so long as they are honest and caring. Not about handing in/editting something into the perfect piece. It's a place to fail safely and learn from those failures with people who care about you and believe in your work. Super cool time!!
yessss!!! love workshopping w you because you always have these great takes!!
@@ShaelinWrites thank you, can't wait!!
That's very well worded!
SHAELIN!! I JUST WANT U TO KNOW I HEARD BACK FROM A LIT MAG YESTERDAY AND I’M GETTING MY FIRST POEM PUBLISHED IN TWO WEEKSSS
YESSS THAT'S AMAZING!! CONGRATULATIONS!
Perfectly helpful! I'm organising a writing club/workshop in a school I work at, so it's for teens-tweens (12-17), and everything has to be thought through carefully, and arranged nicely to create safe, comfortable, creative atmosphere. There's a lot to think about!
Now I want the mortal enemy stories.
yessssss i want all the tea!
Haha that is one that you guys are *not* going to get for privacy reasons (let's just say 'tea' is not the right word to describe what happened. I think the right word for the situation would be 'traumatic')
@@ShaelinWrites Totally get it. Hope it wasn't anything too serious.
As an incoming Creative Writing student, my most anticipated part of my program are the Workshop classes (but we don’t get them until second year where I’m from ☹️)
They start in second year where I'm from too, that's fairly normal I think!
On the Author talking during the workshop, what worked best for me was once everyone had their say they would end by going quickly once more through the group and ask any questions they had, then the author got the opportunity to respond to those questions as well as any feedback they felt they needed to respond to. Yeah every once in a while you get someone who feels the need to defend themselves rather than engage with the criticism and ask questions of their own, but a quick mention of 'hey dude I think you were engaging with the criticism from a defensive point' at the end after adjourning enough that they could come to the next session from a better place
This was helpful. Particularly the protocol for who has the floor during a given round of the workshop.
And your anecdote at the end, the thing your classmate said ..... good god, I felt my sphincter tighten like Fort Knox. And then the mirth inside me rumbled. Even by the standards of a college campus, that was quite the take.
Students feeling safe and respected is the ground on which any workshop must rest, as you say.
Adrienne Miller (*In the Land of Men*) said she tended to reject Esquire story submissions which had a too workshoppy feel.
She published Elizabeth McCracken and had a close editorial relationship with David Foster Wallace.
You favour diversity, heterodoxy, risk and the dangerous edge so your workshop would be like that too, Shaelin.
There is probably a discussion & future follow up video about the utility of Zoom/Slack/Discord in workshopping StoryCraft development. As someone lacking experience and gifted with no expectations I imagine the platform can hinder & sing to people depending on their needs & time commitments.
It really does depend on the person! I for sure prefer in person workshops but with the pandemic that wasn't possible
I'm loving writing and my workshop is my absolute favorite part.
Heavily agree on disliking the work “networking”
Thank you for this video Shaelin, that was helpful
The ending of this video is a must see. Love it.
I would LOVE to hear more workshopping stories from you, I'd click on that video in a heartbeat
Hi Shaelin, I know you have written several stories at a younger age silver bird etc. , I was wondering if maybe you could do another video (like the one you did a few years ago) but reading parts of them, passages from them. I think it would be great to know how an amazing writer like you started out, because me (and most of us when starting out) face issues with confidence and I have read some of your stories I adore them, I’d like to have an idea of where you started. It’s up to you whether you want too, but I just thought it might be fun to see, and for you to just cringe and laugh at your past projects for a little while.
"He's gay... and he has cancer..." 😱
I made a writing workshop discord server, this video will be helpful for us, thx!
I seriously love your videos. A small request, can you please make a video on how to read books which are difficult to understand and contains difficult words. I am not a really experienced reader so I need some help.
Thanks for the great content. I wanted to ask if you do copyediting for authors and if you do, how should I contact you for more details?
Hi Shaelin, when entering competitions etc how can I ensure that my ideas, indeed entire story, isn't stolen?
Asking for a friend.
Just make sure you are submitting to a reputable contest/magazine!
I was wondering if you have any thoughts on how to write good dialogue. It’s something I’m struggling with in my stories
Man I have no idea how I would find people like that. I'm just jealous right now lol.
Helpful content
I am writing a book with some ace characters. Would love your advice. Love your videos. I am ace too btw.
Hey, Shaelin! I am not trying to be rude or anything and I don’t know if you look over other people’s writing pieces. BUT IF you do, may you look over mine? You can decline if you want. I was just wanting someone to look over my writing piece and see if there are any mistakes or anything I need to fix or work on. ❤️
I was just searching for writing workshops yesterday! Can you read minds? 😮❤
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Where is the discord server link?
If you mean the workshop discord I mentioned, it's a private discord just for myself and the other three people in my workshop haha.
A great book I've heard recommended for new perspectives on workshop is "Craft in the Real World" by Matthew Salesses, about how a lot of traditional workshop values were established by white male writers, with craft that's been informed by very specific cultural values. Salessess really upends some of the foundations in Western workshop critique for anyone who's interested!
Great character idea! A novel writer who who has the unfortunate habit of kidnapping other authors she likes and imprisoning them in her basement to work as her editors. In exchange she feeds them and doesn’t murder them in their sleep. Now what genre should she write? Hmm.......
I’m feeling romance.
"he's gay AND he has cancer?!"
Workshops have never been helpful for me. I find it much more productive to get feedback from beta readers who have read the entire draft.
You are talking about a writers group... not a writing workshop. Words matter. :(
@@CynthePen this is a writer’s workshop, that is what they call them in university classes. A writer’s workshop can mean a few different things.
Any tips for a man writing a female character's perspective? I have a character. she is bisexual, and bipolar. so you see. it is a practice in purposeful skitzophrenic-like brain compartmentalization. And i need a dysfunctional mind's analysis.
Read books with women’s POV’s, research how women might feel/experience certain situations, get feedback from women on your story, etc. Ask different types, Especially neurodiverse women
@@bpsara would you like to read a draft?