Managing Critique on Your Work & Implementing Feedback | Writing Tips
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
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Hey everyone! As a final point I just wanted to say that getting feedback on your work should be an enjoyable and fun process that leaves you feeling motivated and inspired! If getting critique on your work causes you a lot of stress, then there might be a problem there. That's a good sign that you might not be in the best critiquing situation for yourself and might want to look at other options to find something that works better for you, or explore why getting feedback is so stressful for you. There's no reason to see feedback as something that will be inherently difficult or scary, it can actually be a great part of the process!
Not sure if you've covered this elsewhere but for me giving negative feedback in a positive way can be extremely difficult. It sometimes makes me wish I hadn't agreed to read the manuscript.
I've got an old video on how to write a critique that you can check out!
@@ShaelinWrites ua-cam.com/video/yPG_JHylPE0/v-deo.html
You thank me later 😘
❤❤❤
I actually found my two critique partners through your channel haha. They found me on Insta and we instantly became friends. Over the course of the past three months my writing has improved *so much* I can’t even deal.
And great video as always
oh my god tHIS IS MY FAVOURITE THING.
Love this topic! We all start shaky with criticism because we all take it so personally. I mean you have toiled over this beautiful story forever, you feel like you have to PROTECT IT, haha. But I think I started taking criticism better when I started going to a local writing group where we had workshops and read our works, so in time I realized it helped me become a better writer. :) Love your vids, Shaelin!!!
I once read an advertisement from someone who was offering their proofreading/critiqueing services to the world at large. It started with the words "Prepare to destroy your work." To which my immediate response was: "Prepare to get fired." This person had an entirely wrong idea of what a critique partner was. It's not to find fault with as many things as you can and then be an arsehole about it. Basically, the idea was to get the author to stop writing. I will leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what *kind* of critic that was.
It's important to remember that this is your story. You are the Author. You are God to the Gods. Critique exists to point out to you things that may have escaped you. To fill in your already considerable subject knowledge with bits that have failed to pop up in your research. To point out phrases that no Brit would actually use. To point out that you have forgotten to describe something that you of course already know, but your readers don't. To be the untainted eyes on your work.
I've just finalized my enrollment to my creative writing MA, so handling critique is something I want to get better at over the next few months. Thank you for this video!
My critique partners are going over my third draft right now so this is very timely! Thanks for posting!
After listening this, I feel like I'm finally brave enough to try and go to some writing classes or groups. The reason why I've never even tried is that I can't handle the criticism when it's said to my face and people will know it's me who can't write. This cave me courage.
Ahh I love that!
How I handle critique: defend my work in the moment, then look at it with a critical, clear eye. It takes a moment to clear my head, but it gets clear! I've found my father is actually one of the best to critique with, because he is super critical. The first time that I had him critique something, I read it afterwards and I could just *feel* how much better it was. If you critiquers out there can manage this, then you are an amazing critiquer, and I want you to critique my books.
I had my first workshop experiences this semester and I was absolutely terrified... like so so scared. I'm definitely a big ball of sensitive so I had a really hard time not internalizing perfectly respectful critique as an attack on my character? Or my worth as a person or a writer? I'm still struggling with it, but I've definitely become more open to critique after doing a couple workshops. I still kind of dread it though. Your analogy about phone anxiety was so good! I had that same experience when I got my first job where I had to answer the phone. Learning how to critique other people's work definitely helped me look at critique in general from a different angle. I always try to be kind and helpful, so I just have to believe that other people are coming from the same place and I can get through it! I'm still trying to build confidence in my own work- it's really easy for me to just not believe the good parts of critique and only focus on the "bad" parts, but then be so discouraged by those bad parts. Kind of a ramble, but I've been thinking about this for a while and this video was super helpful, thank you!
Love this video! I’m going through critiques now on a novel I plan to self publish. I’m getting much better at handling it. 😀
Thank you for being so open about this. I can relate to so much of what you've said. ❤
This was perfect timing, as I'm doing peer review for creative writing classes right now. For me the hardest part isn't necessarily taking the criticism and implementing the relevant critiques, but rather giving specific critiques when it seems as though there's nothing to say. Yeah, it's good, great job! Can't do that, it needs to be specific so it's actually helpful.
I just recently found your channel because I wanted to write a book. And your advice has been really helpful. I love your videos
This is a great video I definitely needed right now! Thank you.
I just received my first critique from a professional writer and I'm just shocked by how terrible I feel. I don't feel excited about the story, or even my own skills. Hope just left my body. It wasn't abusive or rude feedback at all and I know I'm able to keep my ego in check, so I've been trying to figure out why it's been so hard for me to move on. But rewatching this video just took a weight off my shoulders.
Gonna go listen to folklore and eat some candy until I feel inspired again. I'll figure out what I need from a critique next time. Thank you
You shared so much wealth of information on these topics that I just wanted to say thank you. I wasn't sure I would watch this video when I saw it because I am so far away from this step that I didn't want to get distracted with an off topic writing video. But I clicked anyway, because I do love your advise (generally), and I'm really glad I did. My favorite "practical" advise to keep in mind is that most edits you will get can be handled in 1-2 sentences and most go back to clarity. I can see how one can easily think that every critique requires a huge overhaul to really be "true" to that critique, so you've saved me a lot of needless work in the future. And my favorite "personal" tip you gave is about making sure you're in the right setting with people in the right mindset to help you. Basically, beta feedback should be helpful; it shouldn't attack; and you should leave a session feeling empowered (because you sought to improve your work and now you have so many ways of doing that). If you leave feeling belittled, shamed, etc then the feedback was constructed in a rude way. I feel as sensitive people we automatically assume WE are to blame, "I'm just too sensitive. I need to get thicker skin." But I feel that most of us KNOW when feedback is truly constructive fairly and when it's meant to be hurtful, but a part of us still don't want to immediately admit that feedback may be bad, because if we do that, what does that mean? It means: "They don't like me. They might hate me. They want to see me fail at this." And that's hurtful to consider, so we postpone making the rational conclusion, "This is bad feedback; it's not helpful" and waste time trying to get "thick skin" to see beyond the insults of the feedback. But, after watching this, I don't think any writer should do this. If a beta reader behaves like this, we should drop them fast and get someone who actually cares and respects us.
I've started an attempt to write my first novel, and I just wanted to say that your videos really inspire me!!!
Thanks so much for this video! I have a class critique on a first chapter of my novel story in a few weeks, and I've been really nervous worrying that I won't be able to handle it. Relaxing and knowing that I don't need to take the experience that seriously (ie the choice to change your story is ALWAYS and ONLY EVER your own and no one else's) is huge for me right now. I'll value the feedback with an open mind, but also not let it tamper with my value as a human or a writer. Thanks so much. :D
Art is a form of communication. Thus, when I write a story, I always ask, "what do I want to communicate, explore, etc?"
Additionally, I take this approach to critiquing other people's work. I ask what it is that they want to convey, (or more commonly, I provide my understanding of the structural elements of a moment/book are and ask if that is what is desired.) I feel that this is an effective manner to understand systemic issues as opposed to symptomatic ones regarding a colleague's work.
This, as you suggest in you video, helps shape my response to feedback. I ask if the criticism facilitates me achieve my goal with the piece and implement it accordingly. I feel, to add to your point, that this is a more efficient method to deciding whether or not to incorporate another's take.
Excellent video, Shaelin! I shared this with my writer's group. Lots of great tips here.
This video is super helpful, thank you so much! It's cool that you felt like sharing your personal story on getting that harsh unnecessary criticism, thanks for this also
Thank you for a very informative video. Oh, and I love your hair. It looks so soft!
writing queen!!! ✨
Thank you for a very insightful video, Shaelin! 😊 Very important what you say about understanding that the real problem may not be what a person tell you it is.
To me, you seem like a very confident person who is capable of handling some rough feedback (that goes for some of the comments you may have to handle here on UA-cam as well). Glad to know you've reached that stage! 🙂
I don't know if this is something you have experienced, but when writing screenplays (I've completed one), the writer has a choice of either making the script very enjoyable for the reader or to make the script more dramatic for someone who reads the dialogue out loud and try to act out the characters' body language.
For example, I got some feedback about the fact that I had described a character's breath very often. To me, it seemed natural to describe the character's breath, as I was "acting the scenes" while reading them, and understood the emotions underlying the characters' dialogue and body language. Everything flowed nicely for me. However, for this particular reader, it wasn't very intriguing to read about this character's breath all the time.
So I guess it's much more difficult to know how to handle feedback on a screenplay: what to emphasize depends on how future readers may choose to read it. A novel is kind of a finished product in written form, but a screenplay can be interpreted either as a medium of entertainment by itself or as a medium for filmmaking instructions (even if it's a spec script). So not knowing which of these "interpretations" your future readers will make of the script, it becomes difficult to know how to make use of some of the feedback your current readers might give on screenplays.
I guess that's a hint for something you might talk about someday.
Either way, always make the videos you're most passionate about! 🙂
Such a good video! For my English lessons we had to write a mini novel and I choose a comedy genre but I was so scared on how my teacher would react, this has really helped a lot ☺️
Thank you for this video ❤ It was really helpful.
I was kindly but soundly destroyed by a writing group my first time in. It was excruciating. But I improved, by a lot, and now concrit is very thank you may I have another for me. It's cleansing and fun to hear unvarnished opinions about your work. And hey, it's the best say to improve.
Haha I remember my first time being kindly but soundly destroyed by a writing group. Good times lol!
@@ShaelinWrites lol! As I recall they suggested I read "The Elements of Style." Now if that isn't the nicest way to tell someone they suck. 🤣
oh my god that is actually savage
Love your mindset and your earrings ! !
This is a wonderful video. Thank you for your thoughts.
It's weird how many of the best ads I've seen on UA-cam are almost always in front of videos like these.
Thank you so much Shaelin for all your videos! Really helpful! Also, could you possibly do a Q&A??
Love the way you think. It's ok to tolerate, kudos to you. You overcame such horrible feedback and bloomed like a flower.
Ahh I'm so early
I'm planning on starting a creative writing and film ba next year so this will probably be super helpful, idk I like critique but sometimes when you love something and other people shit on it it kinda makes me want to defend my work even though I know that's not how they meant it.
I'd LOVE to hear more about university as a writer and short story videos if you're still interested in that, or maybe your progression as a poet (I write poetry and short stories)
Love you shaelin, please keep posting writing videos, I've been subscribed for about four years, you helped me write my collection!
Those are all great topics I'd love to talk more about at some point !
@@ShaelinWrites great, I cant wait!
Realy helpful advise! Thank you! :D
whooooaah, that new intro sound thooooo, love the typewriter aesthetic
Hasn't she had that sound since the beginning?
A very timely vid for me. Critiquematch.com has become a valuable tool. Thanks for doing this topic.
Honestly I have a harder time implementing suggestions people make during critique but that may have been me getting lucky with a good writing group
However sometimes their feedback does resonate with me about overall things but their suggestions to fix it don't feel like quite what the story needs but I'm trying to implement them anyway to see if they help and I like them more than I thought
Yea sometimes it’s worth trying and other times you just know what works for the story better. Sometimes critics do not get what you are trying to do in places and that’s ok as critic is subjective in places and those places are often very obvious so I skip through it. Know what is useful and what is not for the story
good takes!! 👑
I’ve never been this early 😂
Can’t wait for another video!
Podcast Shaelin! Nice.
Thank you for this video. It helped me a lot. I am going through this stage right now. Yeah, most of the beta readers are helpful by giving constructive criticism. But there are some who are rude, and did not even answer the question i asked, like which scene you did not like? which scene you liked most? etc. They said, 'Your work is a crap. i wondered you got it by means of a ghost writer.' etc.... i was overwhelmed and depressed. And it made me doubt myself (In addition to the imposter syndrome i am currently suffering from) Your video helped me a lot to take other's opinions selectively. Thank you.
I think my attitude to feedback was helped by doing Creative Writing at university, where I obviously didn't have a whole lot of choice over whether I listened to feedback. I've also found a couple of times where it's genuinely improved my stories.
1) Although I still haven't stopped myself doing it entirely, one person whose read my stuff has pointed out that my writing has certain...for want of a better term "mannerisms" which might sound okay to me, but just come across as being a tad awkward to other people. One day I'll spot all examples myself and not need people to point it out.
2) Someone suggested adding a single line to the ending of a story I'd written, and when I read the revised version I realised that actually it WAS a better ending than the one I'd originally written.
I had really similar experiences from my university writing workshops! Having my writing mannerisms and habits pointed out was definitely one of them.
@@ShaelinWrites One of mine, and I have no idea where I get this from, is have "X was stood" in a scene, and an American friend kept asking me if it was just a British thing because he'd never come across US writers writing it that way
Getting feedback on my work makes me a better writer as it helps me find and remove bad stuff. :)
Whether giving or receiving feedback, you have to remember that the author always has the last say. They decide what's right and wrong for their story. Don't get super upset about feedback that doesn't feel right, but also, don't fight an author who doesn't agree with your suggestions. It's ok. :)
Sometimes people will give bad feedback on unexpected things. Like, they expected you to write a certain thing, but you used other words, sentence structure, or the plot/characters themselves surprised the reader. This sometimes makes them react as if you did something wrong, when in fact, they were just not prepared for that thing. Keep that in mind. ;)
This is a copy/paste response to your comment, but since I get the feeling that you are posting multiple comments to strengthen the position of this video within youtube's algorithm, I'n sure you won't mind. That being said, I'm curious to your opinion on mine:
Art is a form of communication. Thus, when I write a story, I always ask, "what do I want to communicate, explore, etc?"
Additionally, I take this approach to critiquing other people's work. I ask what it is that they want to convey, (or more commonly, I provide my understanding of the structural elements of a moment/book are and ask if that is what is desired.) I feel that this is an effective manner to understand systemic issues as opposed to symptomatic ones regarding a colleague's work.
This, as you suggest in you video, helps shape my response to feedback. I ask if the criticism facilitates me achieve my goal with the piece and implement it accordingly. I feel, to add to your point, that this is a more efficient method to deciding whether or not to incorporate another's take.
Super great video Shaelin. Thank you so much.. but now I'm left with one question... "Where do I find these people? XD"
Gosh, what a nightmare story. I've never experienced feedback that toxic. Sorry you had to go through this.
I'm currently compiling all the feedback from my first beta readers and boy oh boy... it can be hard! I think I did find a good group, my readers are compassionate, caring, smart. Still, it's really painful to learn that the book you wrote for an year has so many issues. Yes, this is what beta reading is for - I'm aware and they're aware - but dang, it hurts.
I think if I didn't have good relationships with those readers, the whole situation would feel different. A big part of my motivation comes from the gratitude I have for them, for their time and attention. I want to make the story better, in a way, to pay them back. As a 'thank you' act.
Thanks for sharing the good and the bad, Shaelin. It's better than just one side of the coin.
Cheers,
Ive been working on a sci fi/fantasy novel for about two years and a year into working on it I showed it to a handful of people to get some feedback. My proofreaders have had a copy of it for months now and the only person I’ve heard back from is my best friend. I understand people are busy but it’s been so long that I have been embarrassed about it thinking that people don’t think it’s any good. Im thinking about scrapping it and moving on to another project but I honestly don’t want to give up on this story. What do writers normally do when they can’t seem to get any feedback?
hey shaelin! you mentioned alternatives to beta reading - what alternatives are out there?
I have a workshop group, but working with critique partners is also a good option!
I removed two characters from my book. XD I'm still conflicted about it because I'm not sure if that made it better or not. XD It did make the story shorter though, which is highly needed. :P
♡♡♡
Shaelin, I believe that feedback is needed for us to grow and improve as writers. Over the years, I have become acquainted to editing my writing. I mainly write in secrecy and silence, for my parents don’t read my literary works. There are many ways that one can develop writing skills. It is really important to become a voracious reader before endeavoring to be a prolific writer. Writing in a journal can also benefit in the art of using words to narrate stories. I began writing short stories and poems at a young age. I have been submitting my writing to literary magazines, despite often receiving rejection letters. In seventh grade, I had to write a fictional narrative for an English assignment. I was not complacent with my grade on this story, Love Through Diwali. My English teacher really felt like I was gifted with words. She praised my writing and elocutionary skills everyday and she actuated me to pursue my ambition of becoming an author. However, she was quite a strict mentor. Much to my surprise, this story was published under the editors’ choice section of Teen Ink. In November, I wrote a short story, Ambition and Rejection and it won a Gold Key award at regional level. I recently wrote the poems, Twilight on the Road and The Star of Town. I hope to write a novel soon. I love you
love those earrings
Thank you for this! Sometimes it gets intimidating to submit my writing for feedback/editing but I know its valuable for my growth as a writer. I’m curious, do you get professional editors to edit your short stories?
I don't, professional edits are pretty expensive even for short fiction and it would be quite a cost to hire one to edit all my stories! I just work with my critique partners. However, if you wanted to self publishing a short story collection you'd want to work with an editor, or if you wanted to improve your skills hiring an editor for one story could teach you a lot.
ShaelinWrites I haven’t found critique partners unfortunately. So I’m seriously considering getting an editor to look at one of my short stories to get pro feedback and learn.
@@JohnLuarca I think for one story it's totally worth it as a learning experience, though I don't think it would be a sustainable practice for every story. I actually did work with a professional editor on a short story once (because I got the edit for free via my job haha) and learned a ton. The editor was James Magniac if you're looking for a recommendation, he was fantastic!
Thank you for the recommendation@@ShaelinWrites :-) I found James in Reedsy and I'll send my inquiry to him. They accept edits even for a single short story, I hope.
I did edits for a single short story via Reedsy w/ James so you should be good unless he's changed what types of projects he's accepting since then!
I'd love to get your feedback on a short story i'm currently writing.
Also one doesn’t have to agree with everything a critic says or suggests. Trust your gut on parts where you really feel confident and it feels good to you. It is just another person’s opinion, bare in mind, no one is a God or excellent at something all of the time including yourself. I deal with it really well because some of it is very useful and helpful and feels needed but in places it doesn’t apply so use your own sense and inner knowing when something is good and bad. Self-reflection is useful and an open mind!
Ngl I wanna hear the whole story of what happened with the beta readers
Haha there's no real story, I had a handful of rude betas and the rest were quite helpful and lovely! I just learned that it's not a method of feedback that is really efficient for me and have found much better options that give me more useful feedback.
I have sometimes wondered if feedback wouldn't be more productive if submissions remained anonymous. Particularly in classroom settings where opinions can get tainted by judgy personal attitudes among students, but I think also perhaps even in one-to-one feedback. The latter one is more relevant to those out of school and resorting to online beta readers.
I've been a bit suspicious of opinions out there regarding some past manuscript submissions I've made. This is pertaining to Middle Grade novels. I think ALL of the beta readers I contracted were female. I'm a male. We can probably assume that many people--especially writer-cum-betas--may harbor, well, lofty opinions of who's better suited to write kid's lit. Such opinions do exist, even if they're not out in the open. For that reason I've thought about submitting my work to betas with female attribution instead of my own name just to see if the mixed reviews I've been getting swing another direction.
What happens when somebody who gives a critique is blunt and even a little harsh, but at the same time he’s giving a lot of valid criticism to your story? I’ve learned to be at the mindset that you need to filter through the harshness and look at the content but I’m wondering if you have any insight about what to do when you have a person who is just brutally honest and isn’t off the mark.
If you feel the edits are helpful, then implement them! But, if you feel their edits are brutal to the point they're unpleasant to work with, then you might think twice about working with them on another piece. My point about rejecting mean critiques was more for those cases where someone is essentially just bullying you but not providing helpful notes, it seems this person is providing good notes, their tone might just not be the gentlest.
Constructive criticism is very important. I’m sorry you went through that. It sounds horrible.
Luckily it's an outlier circumstance and not a huge deal!
ShaelinWrites definitely! Btw, I love your channel it’s been very helpful in writing my hamster novel. You are amazing.
@@AuthorTrentonNezzy I googled "hamster novel" to see if this was some writer slang I had missed, but no. Are you writing a novel about hamsters??
Anna Platt yeah, it has talking hamsters. It’s a spoof on the fantasy genre. So it’s been pretty fun to write .
Below is a link to an article from the genre critique group I'm a member of about giving diplomatic feedback. This helped me a lot when I first started giving constructive criticism.
critters.org/c/diplomacy.ht
Pffft I just ask if they think my characters are badass enough yet.
My problem is to find people who can give proper feedback. My friends just don't take me seriously, they evaluate my work from the point of view like... well, they can't look seriously at the book which they have not bought in the shop. It is a bit annoying.
Apparently I'm the 100th comment 😁
I’m scared to get feedback from people I know. I’m not published and most of the people I know aren’t people who are super involved in the literature world. Is there a good way to get feedback in other ways? Like where do you find legit beta readers?
Is Shaelin Canadian? sounds like American
Canadians and Americans have a very similar accent.
Yes, I'm Canadian.
ShaelinWrites
You mentioned in one of your videos that you are from Vancouver, Canada.
i'm crushing on you
Oh my god, that poor girl in your class. instead of running to your lecturer, why didn't you talk to the person who gave bad feedback? What did the lecturer do with those notes?
Talking to the professor is what everyone I talked to advised me to do, and I think is the better protocol when you are dealing with a situation like this in an academic setting. The professor is the supervisor of the class, and I think trying to resolve it myself wouldn't have gone over well. We had no personal friendship and considering how rude she was to me in workshop, I didn't feel like she would have responded well to me talking her about this. I have no idea what the professor did with the notes since she never told me, but I believe it was handled very privately. I don't really know why you feel bad for the girl in my class, as she was the one acting out of line (multiple people even said they felt like her edits were a case of bullying), and reporting it to the professor seemed like the least dramatic way to handle things, short of doing nothing. I don't believe the document my professor mentioned making was ever actually created, but it's not like it would have had her name or her actual edits on it, or been able to be traced back to her in any way. My professor just wanted to keep it as an example to reference when making such a document.
It's also probably worth mentioning that it's not like I ran to the professor because I wanted this girl to be reprimanded (I don't believe she was nor is that what I wanted to happen, I think the professor merely adjusted her workshop participation grade), but more because this was a very new prof teaching her first class who hadn't given any instruction on how to act in workshop, so the professor wanted to hear my thoughts on how she could run workshop in a way that might avoid these situations.