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How they will TRACK your DRONE - UK Remote ID Explained
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2023
- Hey everyone! How will the UK Remote ID system track your drone? Who will be able to? The topic of Remote ID has gained a lot of coverage over the past couple of years but much of this has been focused on how the system will work in the USA. Join Sean for this live show where we break down everything the consultation tells us about the future system proposed for the UK. How will it work? Who will run it? Who will pay for it? How do you comply? We look at all the key questions and answer the live chat questions too!
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Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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I wish you'd do some of these as shorter 5-10 min explainers. Your research and objectivity is great but an 80 min livestream is a lot to watch.
I enjoy the longer shows and watch them when I have time, but a cut-down would be really useful for those who don’t, or for reference at a later date.
Hey Fraser! We do have shorter videos on the consultation. One 3 min, one 8 min and one 9 min focused on the main points. These live shows are then the deeper dive for anyone who wants more info. Hope you are well.
As a general aviation pilot, it absolutely baffles me that Remote ID is even being considered for model aircraft/drones, yet, you can fly a paramotor or ultralight with ZERO communications or transponder and in some classes, without a pilots license! When I fly, I'm more concerned about hitting a paramotor or ultralight in uncontrolled airspace than ever being hit by a drone or model aircraft. The former already has height and no-go areas (via Drone assist) and the latter also have height restrictions and tend to fly in known locations. I'm really not sure what problem Remote ID is trying to solve. It's doing more harm to the hobby than good. Without model flyers, which is a natural 'recruitment' aid to GA and commercial flying, there will be an ever decreasing interest in aviation going forward!
yep, a prop would make short work of drone dessication, not sure if anyone has done an ingest test like they did on radiosondes ages ago, and balloons are quite big and radiosondes are now under 100 gsm but ages ago again they were big and heavy. I was in SHM once downwind and saw a silver balloon fly across me and another pilot reported it, to which the ATC chirped "you saw a silver baboon"!!!
What annoys me with all these regulations on drone flying with a camera whatever size is, everyone gets up tight about being filmed, but walking down the street anyone can film you and up load to UA-cam without your consent.
It's madness. It's another racket . It's to get as much money out of you as they can. I'd like to see what happens when your id gets cloned. We are relying too much on software I think. Just look at the scandal going on now with the post office.
What has happened to such a wonderful hobby, when I was at school we'd go out to the local park or playing field and fly a model aeroplane and had fun. It was never a problem. It appears now that it is impossible to do the same with the grand children, there are so many rule and hoops to jump through.
The bottom line is that bad actors are going to circumvent all of this, rendering it useless and all you are achieving is punishing the legitimate operator.
Having flown model aeroplanes for over 50 years and was looking forward to going out to a field and flying in my retirement, I now see this as an end to the hobby. Where are our future airline pilots, engineers, etc going to come from.
Do you remember your first chuck glider and where that led to? Does anyone in the regulator bodies actually remember what fun that was?
that path is now closed, when will chuck gliders be banned.
The excuse used these days is "we are not banning anything, you just need to comply with X, Y and Z" and pay them the money!!!!
Yes, it is kind of banning by stealth, just making it no longer worth the effort. Everything has a cost/benefit, they are just gradually upping the cost. I expect they'll row back a little bit in the final ruleset, partly due to impracticality, partly so they can say they listened, people will grab on to those rowed back points and say that it's really not that bad, but it will be if one looks at the general movement, the overall direction of travel is set.
There is a key difference here, however, mainly "the camera." You can still go out to a field and fly model aircraft all day long, but it seems the moment a camera gains wings, everyone loses their damn minds.
Thanks for a well balanced video
Sean - First of all, thanks for the information you keep all of us drone operators informed. Second, If the CAA wants remote ID then I would suggest that they NOT base it on the USA and FAA's program. I live in the USA and the FAA's program is garbage. Remote ID should be encouraging participation instead of encouraging non compliance. I would suggest to the CAA that they make Remote ID a single use system. Make the standards the same for all. Manufacturers and DIY kit builders only need to meet the requirments of the broadcast module. Basically that would eliminate the pilot's location argument and many more people would be willing to put the digital lincense plate on their drone. K.I.S.S.
Sean love your UA-cam channel and i really think you need to get on the CAA comity board
I enjoyed listening to this videocast as it was a great help, could you turn up the mic as on 50% Vol I could just hear you and on 100% I could hear it until the advent came on then it was too loud. Please make you mic up more into the yellow area but never in the red area. Thanks David.
Question, network remote if, how would the data across the network be paid for?
I've decided I'm not putting RID on any of my models, especially as models like my UMX Turbo Timber only weighs 168 grams AUW, adding extra equipment will upset the CoG and since it's exempt from registration anyway, why bother. 🙂
The way fight this, is if it comes into force as described is to formally issue the CAA, cc the ICO with a subject access request asking who had access to my personal data at this place & time every time you fly,. Of course they will not be able to answer (is in theory anyone in range) and will leave themselves open to prosecution(and huge penalties) if enough complaints are made to the ICO
You'll be hit with a FOIA exemption beyond generic "authorised persons" in the reply.
I think you said there might be something in the definition of a 'complex camera' which might be a saviour on smaller craft. Any information on that?
You say a prison for example could pick out the bad actor by looking for the lack of remote ID. Prisons are often in built up areas, so what if someone is flying quite legally nearby but indoors with no remote ID? They could not tell the difference, I think.
Wonder if big landowners like the NT will get access to the data? No more early morning quiet flights! The open data transmission would need to be just a number and no pilot position data to avoid personal info. Bit like seeing a car number plate. Write it down and take your complaint to the police.
At 9,000 to 13,000 feet, one is relying completely on a pilot's view. There was a comment some time ago from someone analysing these things concluding that when reporting something unusual it was quite often marked down as a drone if they weren't really sure what it was. Drones are small, planes fly fast, and being clear what you saw is probably hard. Cannot remember who it was who said this, unfortunately.
I'm new to Drones but was it the point of a drone that does not have a camera?
Hi I'm trying to get maps made easy on my mini 3pro but can't seem to get the app store
On the rc controller not pro or smart
Can it be dun
Thanks
Remote ID won’t affect my 03 air unit drone will it? If so, then how will it and what might that look like?
How much data will this be, especially if it is going to be stored for years? Is manned aircraft flight data currently stored for a long time?
Is it worth buying an Air 3 please Sean? Can we fly them? in England?
Can you fly 249 fromes over CMI Dites please watch post xour understanding cheers
They quote Switzerland as using remote ID? I think drones here only need remote ID that are flown in the "Specific Category" which are typically self-built drones that are over 25kg (i.e. large cinelifters and agricultural drones). I typically bring my small FPV quads with me to fly around the garden when I come back to the UK... I guess I'll just be using the sim in the future when I go back then
I didn't see any info for a livestream.
Surely to know whether a flight plan is correct, followed, or changed or completely ignored, then the phone number and location cell data will need to be transmitted, so full personal data
Interesting and useful video.
I think this is a catastrophe for sub 250 (in particular) race/freestyle FPV craft, especially home build. Joshua Bardwell made a passing comment on this in a recent news video “oh well, no more whoops etc in the UK, then”. Might be right apart from indoors. It may be less of an issue for commercial camera drones like DJI as this stuff is built in and it just does what it does, don't know, I'm not one of those users.
Firstly, whether home built or commercial, these things are always based on standard hardware - STM32 based flight controllers virtually always running Betaflight firmware. They seldom have any GPS. Why would they? It's not often necessary.
Betaflight is completely open source, you can build your own versions - I do. But surely, to stop takeoff, that FC code must be tightly connected to the remote ID module code and non-modifiable. Cannot see how that is possible with Betaflight. So to control code and stop it being changed, it would need a whole closed FC/firmware set. The US broadcast module - also pretty bad but not as bad - does not do that, it's passive. Would a commercial race/freestyle manufacturer make something totally different to the rest of the world for the UK, would closed hardware be available for home builders, or would they want to use it? Doubt it.
Secondly, cost. The US broadcast modules are not cheap. It will substantially add to the cost of a craft, mine tend to be either side of £100 in total - very cheap compared to camera drones, I think. There was some US talk about moving modules around, but it is not really practical. They are much too fiddly to do that, especially in the field. The connectors used also do not suffer many insertions in the interests of getting weight down.
Thirdly, size and weight. These things are built for performance - a different animal to a camera drone. At the top end, mine have an all up weight (at my max prop size, 4”) of 210 to 220g, at the bottom end a 65mm brushless craft with 31mm props is about 25g AUW. However small the module is, the extra weight is going to impact performance, a 10g change on a 4” is noticeable and shows up in lap times (bigger/smaller battery) - and it affects flight time (these things only fly for 3 to 4 minutes anyway), when it gets down to a 2 ½” prop with AUW of 89g, the difference is huge and I cannot even see how I would fit a module, on the really small craft it is a total non-starter.
Fourthly, the principle. I fly under trees a lot (other countries call this a shielded operation), I can see it spending a lot of time waiting for GPS or remote ID service providers. I fly some of the same craft indoors, worse. As well as that, I absolutely object to some shadowy bureaucracy building up a database of how and where I fly.
There's more, but I won't go on. I think it's a catastrophe if it goes ahead like this. Maybe there is some hope in what actually constitutes ‘a camera’ (ie maybe not an purely FPV one), but that is all. I can see this being the end for us. Or rather, we will split into three groups: those who just ignore it and carry on as before - quite a few probably, those who think the CAA has killed the enjoyment and give it up, and those who manfully and painfully try to follow the rules. I'm in the middle group, I'll be gone.
How will remote id work if we go abroad?
Why are we getting all of this Sh*t when you can fly a paramotor without needing a license a radio, a beacon or remoteID? This is totally disproportionate and out of order.
Because some “stakeholder” has convinced someone at the DFT that you will be getting your weekly shop delivered by drone and that service will be a money generator for them.
@Chilternflyer As a general aviation pilot ... I 100% agree with you. I'd rather that every manned aircraft was fitted with a mode-s transponder, VHF comms and have a trained and licenced pilot than what they are doing to the model flying hobby!
So are we all guilty of something because somebody down the street called the police?
The problem i have with remote id is that it can be hacked, it be long before software will be out enabling someone to find the pilot
I fly my drones from a Tablet rather than a phone and never has an internet connection, possibly occasionally every few months. does this mean I will have to link my phone to my tablet which is linked to the drone?
also how much information do you think will be required on setup @geeksvana
If model aircraft have been quite satisfactorily low risk for all the decades they have been around, how come they now need remote ID unless they meet all those criteria? Is that a response proportional to risk?
I understand the overall situation and sentiment....But when did a risk assessment need or use evidence ? management of risk is proactive, not reactive. we are now part of aviation, and we will have to comply at some point with the same rules and regulations as manned aviation.... licensing, registration, maintenance, insurance, flight plans, health and safety risk assessments for operations.
Management of Risk is both proactive and reactive... Effective Risk Assessment to prevent issues is best, but Learning From Experience is also a valid and necessary form of management.
@@photoplanet The learning always comes from mistakes made by either not assessing the risk effectively, or not following the rules or procedures already in place....part of the risk is effective training to those involved.
surely the caa should concentrate on more basic things first , i.e id cards should be provided by them as they set the rules
I’ve often thought drone auditors attracting dozens and sometimes hundreds of police complaints a year could ultimately lead to tighter regulations on the silent majority operating for leisure without seeking controversy to make money from adverts. It wouldn’t surprise me if the CAA go on to ban sub 250g drones from being used in relation to some types of locations where major business owners feel very unhappy about drones being used above their commercial properties. Where those businesses make a significant contribution to Britain’s GDP, the CAA are likely to take on board any such concerns which could lead to drone restrictions on the wider public
So, essentially this document should be challenged on legal grounds. We should organise a response through the courts. Not least because regulators are responding to their personal perception of what might become a risk. As opposed to an actual risk…
Nice, but the likely outcome is probably lots of cost for no effect.
@@edcbabc if no one challenged it, that would indeed be the outcome. But if it’s illegal. Then it’s illegal
@@Olleetheowlwell, I guess it's probably not, unfortunately. Missing some guidelines might lead to their having to rethink / reword a few things, but nothing fundamental.
I for one am giving up this my drone flying they have made it far to technical and have taken the fun out of flying drones
The calls need to be filtered for incidence duplication
The game is clearly stacked against drone users. Just because the public call police, does not mean a law has been broken or there was a safety issue. A lot of public do not know the law and so the amount of calls constitutes nothing...
They seem to be mainly worried about security and privacy throughout this 'consultation'. If I fly a drone without a camera then that seems to be OK. We all understand airports, prisons etc. But, bad actors are not going to make it easy and follow any rules !! Certainly they will not have remote id.
Like you said, all without 'disclosed' evidence as justification; just vague statements in a document. There will always be someone complaining about something to boost numbers/complaints. Why don't all vehicles have remote id, most usually have dashcam cameras !!
The whole thing seems to be underpinned by their evidence (??). Blanket statements without backup.
Fixed penalties might affect stats on offences in an interesting way. A fixed penalty is usually a low penalty that you can accept, or take this risk of arguing your case in court and getting a bigger penalty if unsuccessful. They are largely a cost saving exercise for the authorities.
So, put yourself in the position of someone being given a fixed penalty. You don't really know how a magistrate might look at this, but you are pretty sure s/he won't be knowledgeable on drones specifically. You will probably need a solicitor to make a good job of it - more cost. If you lose, big penalty. So, you might well just decide to take the fixed penalty on the chin and move on, even though you don't think it is completely obvious you have broken any law - it's all about risk management, like poker, really. I'm sure I'd weigh up those choices.
So, if the CAA were to rely on such things, the offences might well be inflated to some extent.
They could resurrect the 500m rule. Any flight beyond that and automatic fine in the post!
@@paulsuilventrue.
In relation to the calls surrounding drone reports or sightings……. There’s thousands of UA-camrs flying drones atm. From what I’ve seen there flying writhing the law. Yet 999 calls were always used just to report them while being operated lawfully. That’s gotta boost the numbers up a bit even though the drones were being used lawfully
Definitely those numbers need looking at
They won’t be tracking my drone because it won’t have their stupid and pointless Remote ID on it.
You will be breaking the law
@@slapdat.bytememe to I don’t have not applied for anything that I need to have as we should enjoy what we buy.
I wonder why no remote ID on cars, people, bikes, trucks etc.. I find it quite odd to target a hobby that's generally safe.
Remote ID for individuals already exists.... You probably take your mobile phone everywhere with you - That's you tracked, if the security services really needed to find you.
Hi is comparing 999 calls a reasonable comparison to the amount of drone complaints?
999 calls cover anything from a cat in a tree to murder and may even include drone complaints.
I agree that drone complaints are disproportionately highlighted but we need to present our case in a manner that cannot be easily debunked.
There are some idiots with driving licenses and access to vehicles. I think the only way forward is to return every one in the country to horse and carriage.
One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.
outlaw drone flying is coming
They make it sound like remote id will work soon it's going to take at least a decade before this can be policed digitally automatically by letter by example no chance UK police will be able to deal with this carry on
Lol my rc planes now identify as a remote id module
Crikey. The 18K+ reports about drones could equally conclusively prove that the general population has absolutely no idea what the drone rules are.
will FOI for the end - user apply and how easy will it be to mask, change or spoof the ID system as I am sure criminals/terrorists will find a way around this. The advent of aided navigation using FLIR sensors and Ai on-chip modules will mean GPS as a nav-aid etc will be redundant soon, leaving drones and their tasks quite covert and autonomous without the need for an operator-link. Also (as I worked in balloon meteorology for mod for many years) I would ask whether the drones have been actually ingested deliberately into operational jet engines under test, as radiosondes and balloons were a long time ago. and you can thank google for supplying the Ai geolocated "3D imagery" of every area of every city which IMHO is totally absurd especially when Ai/autonomous flight and pattern recognition comes to drones.
lol I will not be complying with remote id they won’t be stopping me fly my planes catch me if you can, it’s all so Amazon and that can do delivery here in uk I fly within the law at moment have a operator id and always fly safe in fact sometimes I talk myself out of flying if it’s too windy so I police myself and don’t fly in restricted places so in the end they can do one anything that goes under 400 ft in airspace should be left for us hobbiests and just dads showing their kids how to have fun or anyone else they want to do up to that height anything that wants to fly over 400 ft they can knock themselves out with as far as I’m concerned
I'm sure a lot will say that, but one thing to bear in mind is that - assuming this ruleset is what really happens - if you are near anything that might have drone detection equipment (airport, military base etc - even though not inside an FRZ) and are detected, and there is no corresponding remote ID signal, it is possible that someone might decide to investigate. Is it likely, the police being busy? Probably not, but who knows. It's a decision and risk evaluation that everyone has to make.
They can come find me
Lets ask how much money police forked out in compensation for lack of law knowledge. Numbers will be high
All the data is on reports to the police from the public, with no info on crimes committed or just spoken to or was legally flying
one thing it will stop them pesky police asking for your info and we thing you are not allowed to fly there, you can just say check your phone all the info is there now go away
Remote ID is invasion of privacy for data collection
How many UFO report’s were there? Are they going to regulate them too? 😁
The issue is the criminals will just use older drones with no way to track. Compliant drone users aren't the problem.
its always the way criminals reck everything for law people
Clear the Air space destroy drone flying and aero modelling, then Amazon and the others can make more money with drone delivery.
This is just ridiculous, criminals will still use drones outside of the law as they don’t care about legislation. They are only going to catch an illegal or negligent operator if they apply to be registered which they will not (obviously). The only thing this will do is punish those that follow the law and may make a mistake as a way to gain revenue.
Also, they can’t base the need for remote id or any other nonsense restrictions they bring in to try and destroy my main hobby based on numbers of ‘reports’ on drone flight as literally how many times has some goon Karen complained to someone regarding a completely safe and legal flight that has zero ill effect on anyone at all.
& they can’t base this shit on the drone near airport thing when there has been zero evidence that that one big event even happened hoe they say, or even that there was a drone at all. Apparently someone reported an additional drone sighting that was a police drone responding to the initial non existent drone.
Also also, I’ve witnessed with my own eyes local police practicing with drones from a disused car park/coach park next to the police station.
The smaller drone they had up was a mavic 3 size drone, and they also had a much larger 6 prop thing they were flying as well.
They were going directly over street, shops and people on a busy summers day in the centre of town, and where they were flying is NOT visible at all from the spot they were taking off from.
How many people are in prison for illegally flying drones? I bet there isn't a single person this has nothing to do will illegal activity it's about control as always.
There was a case a year or so ago, someone flying a drone over a football or rugby match in progress at a major UK stadium.... The police tracked the drone to the owner parked nearby, and after a short car chase, nicked him for the drone offences as well as no motor insurance I seem to remember.
Disregard of the law in one aspect often migrates across other areas of a person's life.
Under CAA BS rules I would need to fit a 50 gram drone with remote ID if it has a camera and under CAA rules I am legal to fly a sub 250 gram helicopter directly above people but I cannot fly a 50 gram FPV drone, CAA speak so much BS it is stupid AF I am no longer paying and drone tax and just flying as have been for many years, anyone stop me I will just say it identifies as a bird, I am all for rules but must be good rules with good risk assessments and not what ever they want to pull out of their a$$ I like this channel and wish you luck but if remote ID comes in, would not take much for someone at just stop oil to spoof at a airport from miles away, in one aspect I hope they do and then they see how stupid it is
All these rules, regulations, & RID have little to do with safety or security risks from consumer drones. It is all about the insatiable need of political megalomaniacs for CONTROL. There have been ZERO deaths & very few serious injuries connected to consumer drones. When you watch Ukraine videos of drones dropping grenades on Russian armor those are not common consumer drones doing the dropping. Of all the regulations, RID is among the most heinous, as well as dangerous to drone pilots.
Consider that every years many thousands of deaths are attributed to vehicles, yet no vehicle broadcasts information, nor bears restrictions, similar to the burden placed on drone operators by RID or hard-enforced NFZ & Restriction Zones. As a potential security risk, a car or truck can carry 100-fold more explosives or dangerous material than can a consumer drone. The risk factor comes from the morons who conjured up RID deciding it would broadcast publicly to any dimwit who downloads an app. This makes the targeting of drone pilots extremely easy for the enterprising thug crew.
Millions of consumer drones in use. Zero deaths. This is a solution in search of a problem. Nothing but the latest political power grab.
its a shame they don,t spend as much time on immigration violent crime and mugging and alike but that would involve work.
if someone wants to use a drone for dodgy reasons, they will just nick a drone like they would if they wanted to do something with a car! ridiculous rules to make money!
The bad guys will not fly drones with REMOTE ID.
It seems to me, possibly many others, that all this legislation is geared up and surrounding drones and their pilot and the irresponsible way, some of them, conduct their activities. Why are model aircraft pilots being drawn into this and being legislated against. Up until the advent of drones with cameras model pilot flyers had little or no intervention from the public or the authorities. I don't understand why it applies to model aircraft pilots. Genuine model aircraft pilots, single rotor helicopters and model planes 99% without cameras and being flown responsibly for decades, most of us had/have public liability insurance before any of the legislation was even thought of. You talk of evidence, which I completely advocate, but where is the evidence of irresponsible, dangerous flying from model aircraft pilots?