Once the low frequency response begins to flatten, it can become almost magical as far as what you can finally hear. Like removing auditory mush from your room.
You don't have to install bass traps if you do not load the room in an improper way in the first place. Open baffle or no baffle loudspeakers do exactly that; avoiding overloading the room with standing waves.People who have heard the attack, dynamics and dryness of the low end of a high quality and well positioned OB speaker will understand my point.
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. You have gold in your head and you are one of the few people who can explain a point with real fundament. Greetings from Mexico City.
Great video, as usual. Looking at the Harman response target curve for speaker response in rooms, the low bass is elevated compared to the rest of the spectrum, which tilts down slightly as frequency goes up. This is based on typical end user preferences, not necessarily mixing/mastering professionals, who tend to prefer less or no hump in the bass response. So it would seem most of us, as you suggest, have become highly accustomed to boosted bass when listening in typical domestic rooms. I assumed I wouldn't be one of those people who prefer it, but I actually do! I am not a studio professional. Interestingly, for headphones, the target is the same, except adapted so that the response at the eardrum from the headphone is the same as the room target response would be at the eardrum. So this would suggest that mastering headphones used by professionals should be leaner in the bass than consumer grade headphones that are considered "accurate." Is that true? I've never been in an anechoic chamber, but I did hear some large HiFi speakers outside and they seemed to lack bass extension in that environment. They probably measured fairly flat down to their cutoff.
I moved into a new room with a new pair of speakers and 4 turbo traps from gik placed in the corners behind the speakers. I was quite unhappy with the sound, speakers (Dynaudio Contour 20) sounded thin with very little low end and even lower mids were sucked out. No amount of tweaking the speaker or listening position would fix this and I ended up setting the crossover of my two subs very high (mains not high passed) to compensate. I lived like this for some months before I decided to remove the traps and much to my surprise, everything’s sounds balanced again. This setup is for ‘enjoyment’ but did spend the first part of my professional life performing and in studios, so not your average bass head 😅 Maybe I just need more traps or there is a problem with the GIK tube traps who knows..
Loved the video! I think I need to get some ASAP. My living room drives me crazy because of the stupid layout. The bass sounds incredible in the corner end, but since the other end leads to the big kitchen and hall way opening, the bass is cut like in half so it sucks! Do you think putting bass traps in the shitty end would help the bass sound better? I’d love to know what you’d think!
Without watching the video I already know the answer is no. There is no such thing as taking too much bass out of a room when talking about room treatment. There is however personal preference to the enhanced bass response and decay due to the room reflections and standing waves. So while you can't eliminate standing waves completely in a room, you can reduce the bass response of the room to a point where it is too "dry" compared to what you prefer or are used to.
Thanks for all your fantastic video's! I can't stop watching them 😄 I downloaded your free basstrap document and I will replace my cheapo basstrap foam with a rockwool one. Keep on creating these informative videos without the voodoo 👌🏻
Hi, whats about Holes in Frequency Responce. Its the same like with Peaks in Frequency Responce? Do have a Video about the Relationship of Peaks and Holes? thx
Large rooms with very high ceilings are good for not getting standing low freq waves, but in Europe, you rarely have really big rooms in your home unless you've got really big old money on your side.
We always hear about bass absorption and how difficult,expensive and how much space it takes...wouldn't it be way easier/cheaper/effective to vent pressure than trying to absorb all of it ??? I recall a few Chips Davis LEDE rooms where he use to vent rear wall low end pressure to chambers built above the ceiling systems, effectively doubling the distance waveforms had to travel and dissipate through the facility....obviously venting outside would seem even more effective and cheaper as long as it doesnt create a noise issue... But shouldn't venting be considered as an effective, affordable alternative option to help dissipate low end issues for many studios ?
"Bass Traps: Can They Take Away Too Much Bass?" I remember my band used to rehearse at this studio that had massive wall traps, the amount of bass flattening was amazing; it took ages to get accustomed to it
The key is to pay attention to the tonality of the bass as you add traps, if the traps are not full and equally broadband (most of them in existence) then they can/will take too much in certain frequency zones and leave it alone others, so the effect on the tone is very negative.
No you can't have too much bass trapping. Assuming you're using absorption rather than a hemholtz resonator or tuned membrane trap. As long as you're using absorption like rock wool or foam then the more and deeper your bass traps are the more balanced and accurate your room should sound. This is because the same material that is absorbing all that bass is also absorbing hi and mid frequencies. If you use another bass management technology like hemholtz or tuned membrane, you could end up reflecting most of the hi and mid frequencies back into your room while absorbing more bass. This still wouldn't lead to an issue where you had "not enough bass" in your room. It would likely lead to a situation where you have clear tight sounding bass with a lot of annoying reflections and distortion in the mid and hi frequencies. But since pretty much no one would build a room with JUST membrane or hemholtz and no broadband absorption, it is very unlikely to be a problem you encounter. Just use deep bass traps where ever you have space for them and then use regular 2-4" deep panels everywhere else. A touch of diffusion to avoid an uncomfortably dead room and you're in business.
Is mid to high range absorption based on surface area vs depth. In other words would a 12" thick panel deaden or absorb the mids and highs any more than a 4" one?
It depends on the material in question and frequencies you're looking to absorb. For example, a rigid fiberglass absorber hits an absorption coefficient of pretty much 1.0 all the way from 315Hz-5kHz. You can't absorb more than 100% of the sound energy, so increasing thickness yields no return in that frequency range. But, the thicker it gets, the more effective it gets at absorbing lower frequencies, with a 1" thick panel absorbing 47% as much at 315Hz, and 2" absorbing 97% as much as the 3" at 315Hz. That's all percentages though, which deal with the sound waves striking that specific point on the wall. The surface area is critical, because absorbing 100% of the sound energy on 0.1% of your wall will be less impactful than absorbing 50% of the energy on 50% of your wall. Fortunately, you don't have to cover everywhere on the wall - your bang for your buck is at the first reflection points, so once you know the position of your sound source and your listening position, you can achieve the greatest impact with absorption at three first reflection points - the side walls and ceiling (since a floor or desk is often the lower first reflection point and is an impractical place for placing absorbers, and the rear wall may be desired to be reflective depending on the size of the room and the way you want that room to sound).
If my room walls are carpeted (all 4) . Will I need to add some form of reflective treatment. I am now concerned about missing something. Monitor are in the pyramid formation, panels on the wall in appropriate areas. I feel that I'm getting a true sound because of the speakers angled right at ear level etc. Is this something I may need to look into or experiment with.
This is a fantastic video Jesco. Your points at ~6 min describe my room at work perfectly. Absolutely no low freq absorbtion, small, and over damped in mids and highs D:
Hi thank you for the video. I've watched several of your videos on bass traps and I'm getting the impression that the information that you shared is for a mixing room application. I'm trying to find information about bass traps for a vocal isolation booth. Do you have any videos that specifically talk about acoustic treatment for a vocal isolation booth? Be it bass traps or acoustic foam panels or anything of that sort? I am setting up a vocal isolation booth for voiceovers application either in my home and I've got the space created now I need to do the acoustic treatment if you could share with me some videos that you think might be helpful I would greatly appreciate it
So i have seen an argument to add more subwoofers to even out the bass response instead of using bass-traps, but adding more bass energy to the room seems like it would only exacerbate the issue, what do you think?
My understanding is that good bass trapping can actually increase the perception of bass by reducing the nulls caused by standing waves
Yeah, that’s basically it
Once the low frequency response begins to flatten, it can become almost magical as far as what you can finally hear. Like removing auditory mush from your room.
You don't have to install bass traps if you do not load the room in an improper way in the first place. Open baffle or no baffle loudspeakers do exactly that; avoiding overloading the room with standing waves.People who have heard the attack, dynamics and dryness of the low end of a high quality and well positioned OB speaker will understand my point.
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. You have gold in your head and you are one of the few people who can explain a point with real fundament. Greetings from Mexico City.
Great video, as usual. Looking at the Harman response target curve for speaker response in rooms, the low bass is elevated compared to the rest of the spectrum, which tilts down slightly as frequency goes up. This is based on typical end user preferences, not necessarily mixing/mastering professionals, who tend to prefer less or no hump in the bass response. So it would seem most of us, as you suggest, have become highly accustomed to boosted bass when listening in typical domestic rooms. I assumed I wouldn't be one of those people who prefer it, but I actually do! I am not a studio professional. Interestingly, for headphones, the target is the same, except adapted so that the response at the eardrum from the headphone is the same as the room target response would be at the eardrum. So this would suggest that mastering headphones used by professionals should be leaner in the bass than consumer grade headphones that are considered "accurate." Is that true? I've never been in an anechoic chamber, but I did hear some large HiFi speakers outside and they seemed to lack bass extension in that environment. They probably measured fairly flat down to their cutoff.
I moved into a new room with a new pair of speakers and 4 turbo traps from gik placed in the corners behind the speakers. I was quite unhappy with the sound, speakers (Dynaudio Contour 20) sounded thin with very little low end and even lower mids were sucked out. No amount of tweaking the speaker or listening position would fix this and I ended up setting the crossover of my two subs very high (mains not high passed) to compensate. I lived like this for some months before I decided to remove the traps and much to my surprise, everything’s sounds balanced again. This setup is for ‘enjoyment’ but did spend the first part of my professional life performing and in studios, so not your average bass head 😅 Maybe I just need more traps or there is a problem with the GIK tube traps who knows..
Loved the video! I think I need to get some ASAP. My living room drives me crazy because of the stupid layout. The bass sounds incredible in the corner end, but since the other end leads to the big kitchen and hall way opening, the bass is cut like in half so it sucks! Do you think putting bass traps in the shitty end would help the bass sound better? I’d love to know what you’d think!
Without watching the video I already know the answer is no. There is no such thing as taking too much bass out of a room when talking about room treatment. There is however personal preference to the enhanced bass response and decay due to the room reflections and standing waves. So while you can't eliminate standing waves completely in a room, you can reduce the bass response of the room to a point where it is too "dry" compared to what you prefer or are used to.
Thanks for all your fantastic video's! I can't stop watching them 😄
I downloaded your free basstrap document and I will replace my cheapo basstrap foam with a rockwool one. Keep on creating these informative videos without the voodoo 👌🏻
Hi, whats about Holes in Frequency Responce. Its the same like with Peaks in Frequency Responce? Do have a Video about the Relationship of Peaks and Holes? thx
Salut ,
Je n''en comprend qu'1/3 !!! Mais en lisant les commentaire , ça aide !!! Passionnant même ...
Quel dommage que ce ne soit pas traduit !!!
😉😎
Large rooms with very high ceilings are good for not getting standing low freq waves, but in Europe, you rarely have really big rooms in your home unless you've got really big old money on your side.
Thank you so much for providing us with all this great info! Subscribed! :)
At last! A technical analysis that I can follow!!! Subscribed 😎
Most people I know with bass traps, have holes in their sound. Yes it does many times fix stuff, but also leaves inconsistent holes that annoy.
We always hear about bass absorption and how difficult,expensive and how much space it takes...wouldn't it be way easier/cheaper/effective to vent pressure than trying to absorb all of it ??? I recall a few Chips Davis LEDE rooms where he use to vent rear wall low end pressure to chambers built above the ceiling systems, effectively doubling the distance waveforms had to travel and dissipate through the facility....obviously venting outside would seem even more effective and cheaper as long as it doesnt create a noise issue... But shouldn't venting be considered as an effective, affordable alternative option to help dissipate low end issues for many studios ?
"Bass Traps: Can They Take Away Too Much Bass?" I remember my band used to rehearse at this studio that had massive wall traps, the amount of bass flattening was amazing; it took ages to get accustomed to it
Do those amazon bass traps reduce bass from getting into other rooms?
The key is to pay attention to the tonality of the bass as you add traps, if the traps are not full and equally broadband (most of them in existence) then they can/will take too much in certain frequency zones and leave it alone others, so the effect on the tone is very negative.
No you can't have too much bass trapping. Assuming you're using absorption rather than a hemholtz resonator or tuned membrane trap. As long as you're using absorption like rock wool or foam then the more and deeper your bass traps are the more balanced and accurate your room should sound. This is because the same material that is absorbing all that bass is also absorbing hi and mid frequencies. If you use another bass management technology like hemholtz or tuned membrane, you could end up reflecting most of the hi and mid frequencies back into your room while absorbing more bass. This still wouldn't lead to an issue where you had "not enough bass" in your room. It would likely lead to a situation where you have clear tight sounding bass with a lot of annoying reflections and distortion in the mid and hi frequencies. But since pretty much no one would build a room with JUST membrane or hemholtz and no broadband absorption, it is very unlikely to be a problem you encounter. Just use deep bass traps where ever you have space for them and then use regular 2-4" deep panels everywhere else. A touch of diffusion to avoid an uncomfortably dead room and you're in business.
Is mid to high range absorption based on surface area vs depth. In other words would a 12" thick panel deaden or absorb the mids and highs any more than a 4" one?
It depends on the material in question and frequencies you're looking to absorb. For example, a rigid fiberglass absorber hits an absorption coefficient of pretty much 1.0 all the way from 315Hz-5kHz. You can't absorb more than 100% of the sound energy, so increasing thickness yields no return in that frequency range. But, the thicker it gets, the more effective it gets at absorbing lower frequencies, with a 1" thick panel absorbing 47% as much at 315Hz, and 2" absorbing 97% as much as the 3" at 315Hz.
That's all percentages though, which deal with the sound waves striking that specific point on the wall. The surface area is critical, because absorbing 100% of the sound energy on 0.1% of your wall will be less impactful than absorbing 50% of the energy on 50% of your wall. Fortunately, you don't have to cover everywhere on the wall - your bang for your buck is at the first reflection points, so once you know the position of your sound source and your listening position, you can achieve the greatest impact with absorption at three first reflection points - the side walls and ceiling (since a floor or desk is often the lower first reflection point and is an impractical place for placing absorbers, and the rear wall may be desired to be reflective depending on the size of the room and the way you want that room to sound).
If my room walls are carpeted (all 4) . Will I need to add some form of reflective treatment. I am now concerned about missing something. Monitor are in the pyramid formation, panels on the wall in appropriate areas. I feel that I'm getting a true sound because of the speakers angled right at ear level etc. Is this something I may need to look into or experiment with.
thanks! I need to make 20 bass traps! haha
Thanx Jesco. Useful information.
If you mix live music outdoors, is your "listening environment" perfect ? 😅
Just found your channel. Hit subscribe. Greatly appreciate the information.
This is a fantastic video Jesco. Your points at ~6 min describe my room at work perfectly. Absolutely no low freq absorbtion, small, and over damped in mids and highs D:
Okay at this point I give up. Unless I can figure out how to make my bass trap igloo to mix inside.
Excellent, thanks Jesco!! 🙏🙂
Hi thank you for the video. I've watched several of your videos on bass traps and I'm getting the impression that the information that you shared is for a mixing room application. I'm trying to find information about bass traps for a vocal isolation booth. Do you have any videos that specifically talk about acoustic treatment for a vocal isolation booth? Be it bass traps or acoustic foam panels or anything of that sort? I am setting up a vocal isolation booth for voiceovers application either in my home and I've got the space created now I need to do the acoustic treatment if you could share with me some videos that you think might be helpful I would greatly appreciate it
did you make those panels?
Very good, thank you!
Thank you - again - Jesko.
Thank you!
So i have seen an argument to add more subwoofers to even out the bass response instead of using bass-traps, but adding more bass energy to the room seems like it would only exacerbate the issue, what do you think?
Additional subwoofers addresses the Frequency domain (via smoothing if executed correctly)
Bass traps address Time domain (via lessening LF decay times)
What about for home theater ? Do I need bass trap ? Thanks 🙏🏽
Depends what your room is like, where your speakers are
cool
I wish this information was around about 15 years ago. 😳
Love it ;)
Thank you. Since you're not going to give audio examples... This video could have been 3 seconds long. (long enough to say "NO")
Then we wouldnt have learned why :)
Still faster than studying it🤷♂️
First you need at least a 30m² room. Then you can talk about serious acoustic treatment.
Couldn’t help but notice the michael jackson off the wall album on the shelf
Yea dude super rare album. So glad you pointed that out.
Lol, there is no way you are removing bass pressure. You are simply reducing reflections