Edit: I did some new testing after talking to Jesco thru e-mail and I can confirm that 32kg/m3 rockwool works great (maybe even better than 48/64) for broadband absorbers if the specs are around 9000 pa*s/m2. Air flow resistivity spec is very important, beware that not all rockwool has expected afr just by its weight, can vary quite drastically. I rarely disagree with Jesco, and I mainly treat home studios also. Tests I made with rockwool density did informed me that yes it does make a significant difference. After trial and error I found that it MUST be between 48 kg/m3 and 64 kg/m3 for broadband absorbers and at least 6 inches thick to really grab those lower frequencies, less than 48 it loses efficiency and above 64 it's even worse (which I found very weird), but that's it. Great episode! Keep up the good work!
Interesting that you pointed this out. For my broadband panels I opted for 60kg/m3 as I assumed it would target the lower frequencies, plus high frequencies are relatively easy to deal with and I also have carpet. The panels are 4” thick with a 4” air gap. I’m hoping I didn’t waste my money getting 60kg/m3 vs 45kg/m3.
@@skatepark02 Definitely all good in your case, you still have some acceptable efficiency for sure, not optimal but workable, shouldn't worry too much. In your case, for the future I would increase the panels to 6" thick and 6" gap. I also did some new testing after talking to Jesco thru e-mail and now I can confirm that 32kg/m3 if the specs are around 9000 pa*s/m2 works pretty great also, the key is in the positioning, specially for the low end absorption, you should target every corner possible in your room.
Thank you for asking my question on the show, really appreciate it. I'm gonna carry on just using headphones in my spare bedroom set up/cupboard then. Thanks fellas :)
You’re welcome, and remember, whatever works! If you’re mastering for Sony then you arguably need high end monitors in a perfectly designed, built, and treated space. If you’re working on your own music then headphones and referencing your mix on other systems can be the way to go. Writing songs in a high end studio won’t make your songs any better! Thanks for watching, as always!
So many people need to see this video. UA-cam is packed with people who claim to give treatment advice, but the concept of things breaking down in small rooms negates anything they're saying. When acousticians can't get reliable measurements that fit the models, there's no way a "producer" working in their bedroom is going to get things right. Nevermind the audiophile snake oil products. They're amazing. So much good info here. Thanks, guys.
You guys (both Jesco and PresentDayProduction) are just incredible. It is not just gold in your mines, there is platinum, silver, diamonds, ... Everything clear and vivid, as would Allan Alda said. Thank you very much for your work!
its hilarious because my room is also my studio and i have a murphy bed that competely folds in on the inside is a matriss outside is treatment , its been a great business plan indeed 😂
38:34 yes! Get a PJ & screen. I ditched my Glass Screen TV between the speakers in 2001 and back then the PJ pictures weren’t great but it made a massive difference to the sound. Fast forward to now and I have load of treatment that sits behind the PJ screen (2x monsters 3xN23 diffusers 2x 70hz diaphragmatic traps & a polly) where most people have a glass screen. The whole lot is hidden when the screen is down, it really is the best solution* in my opinion. Glass screens are evil 👿 … that said I still have a small one off to the side of my work position. Going by the light in your studio, it’s perfect for a screen………..just one problem, *projection is noisy. No way you can have that noise in the same room, it has to be in a box or outside projecting through glass. Like with Northwood’s speakers, doing it right can be a proper pain but you can’t mess it up like you can with speaker placement in walls.
@@PresentDayProduction I've just started using LOGIC remote on an ipad - for critical mixing I could cover the big screen with a small absorber and tweak on the pad.
In the last week I've seen 3 other people reference the start of pensados place being the rough start of their mixing careers, which is very similar to my story! This is after a decade+ of rarely seeing or meeting anyone from around there.
I’m glad you touched on the computer screen problem. I remember moving mine off the desk away from the speakers and being blown away by the results. Such a powerful tip and yet followed by so few
I find screens make a huge difference, not so much reflections but in most cases they are blocking off axis sound from the monitors. Removing the screen always sounded better. My final solution involved changing my workflow and using a laptop. Getting a typical 14" thin laptop with the highest brightness screen you can find. I find myself doing a lot more work outside the studio on headphones or my home theater setup and when I need to be more serious I move to the studio. In the studio I have two tiny touch screens I use for controlling faders and frequent tasks. Bitwig studio works well on a touch screen, and it helps make up for the limited space of a 14" screen. I found it really does matter the quality/brightness of the laptop screen, you will be miserable if you skimp on it.
My hats off to you and Jesco for giving me that 'aha' moment, after running the sinsweep 30-115Hz sample Bass Hunter Technique. I now know my exact listening position in my room, ideal for a flat bass response all thanks to the absolute gold mine of information that you guys help provide. Donation coming your way and I'll help out Jesco while I'm at it. Cheers
@@anoopht9588 No video, but there is a pdf tutorial. First you register your name and email with Jesco at acousticsinsider.com, then he sends it out to you
Extremely informative video. Great information and super advice from Jesco that really touched upon various subjects in depth. The only one component missing was James in a dress. Thanks for doing it. Phil NYC Area
It took me a while to have time to watch this video but I'm glad I'm doing it now without rushing. Jesco is a fountain of information with a pragmatic approach (just like this channel is). Great talk here guys! Thanks!
Really useful answer to the density question, thanks. I wish this video existed 18 months ago! The information on this channel is fantastic, I can't actually believe it's free to be honest. 10 years ago I'd have had to pay through the nose for specialist advice like this.
Note. Don't be too afraid of using numbers... we are not all put off by some basic (or not so basic) maths, if it helps in understanding what's going on. I know that the publishers of A Brief History Of Time, apparently told Hawking that every extra equation would reduce the numbers of copies sold, but I'm not so sure about that. Will go and sub to Acoustics Insider, after this. Thanks for the pointer!
@Wayne Brown well, I'll draw the line a partial differential equations(!), but some basic stuff can be illuminating, especially if one wanted to, say do calculations on speaker cabinets, or bass traps, these could be useful!
I know this is completely off-topic but I find it really funny how, despite you two having an amazing camera setup each, you are using the webcam recordings most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the effort taken into making this! I just find it a bit funny. Great video!
Brilliant collaboration, I was totally "absorbed"! Watched every single minute of this video! Keep up the good work and great vibes @Acoustics Insider and @PresentDayProduction🙏👍
Love both your channels. Always fantastic material and funny 😊 I've bought a house in the North Norwegian countryside. The lower "apartment" I'm turning into a studio. Been dabbling in studio work for over 20 years. One track I always use to check the bass in the listening area I've chose is The band "Five for Fight", Track "100 years". Listen on good headphones. Then check out in your listening studio monitor position. If the first bass note doesn't ring out like the others, there is something wrong. 😮
In the first room I used as a live room, I put old couches upright in the corners..... now I’m building out a room the best I can and this info is gold! Thanks.
Thinking about managing reflections from screens, it occurs to me that the larger curved screens that are now becoming more commonplace are basically acoustic mirrors that likely focus sound on the viewer in probably unhelpful ways.
Im about to move into a new place with 2m x 4m room for my music production... I've ben looking for acoustic answers for about a year, and i HAVEN'T been able to grasp as much in this year than 3 hours on this chanel.. I love you guys, and you fit into my sense of humour perfectly. Gonna support you all the way!
Super video, thanks! I like to keep the speakers further away and the screen very low and quite close so it doesn't interfere with the stereo image. A desk with a height adjustable screen section makes this easier.
The idea is to build or buy tunable helmholts resonators. You can of course build static ones, but I would only do that for the lowest node. And even that one would have to be tunable, even if it's just drilling another hole.
I'm in six minutes and already learned a lot! Exited for these 90 minutes! Already signed up on the website in the link :) You got me with just six minutes... :)
Thanks Nico! We’re so glad you found it useful, and we’re not masters (well, Jesco is haha) we’ve just been doing this for a very long time now, so kinda know what works and what doesn’t! Thank you for watching 🤓
Great video! Something else to consider is if there are some acoustic guitars hanging on the wall and are close to the listening position. They can act like passive radiators and can be problematic (which sucks because they look so nice hanging on the wall!). I suggested the acoustically transparent screen a few weeks ago and it’s something I’m considering. If you guys get to it before I do I’d be very interested in the results. Thank you again for your fantastic content!
Great Interview / Q&A Session, Excellent Job. i'm one of the fortunate to be mixing in a cupboard so i A/B between headphones all the time. Keep up the good work guy's.
b.b b b b b but should i use API or Neve on the snare? ... Kidding :) . I've been watching/reading Ethan Winer and following his tips and tricks during the last decade. This is golden!
Really love both channels, thanks for joining forces! Awesome video! Have a couple of questions, don't know if you can answer them here. Do the acoustic treatment have to be simmetric? Is there an advantage for it or not at all? Where do I measure the gap from panels in the corner? From the center to the corner? If I have a 15cm deep panel it needs to have 30cm width maximum for the air gap not to be more than 15cm? Hope I could explain it well. Thanks a lot for the excellent content!
Thank you for watching! Yes, you are aiming for symmetry in the room where possible, to maintain the best stereo imaging. Ideally a corner trap should be triangular when viewed from above, then you can maintain and equal air gap - or not have one at all in the corners if you can make the panel thick enough.
@@PresentDayProduction Thanks for the answer, refurbishing my room acoustic at this exact moment and this video came in like 'something that come in at the right time but I don't know the expression in english.'
@@PresentDayProduction This question may come a bit too late, but as the building of my studio progress I came into one crossroad: if I have the possibility of having more treatment on one side than the other what should prevail? Treatment symmetry or treatment quantity? Maybe the right answer is the good and old it depends...
Thank you chaps for another excellent video! Had me breathing several sighs of relief that advice I've received in the past (and implemented) wasn't all bollocks. Just a quick question: I have a particularly dead control room with lots of treatment. I've got used to it and don't feel too claustrophobic (perhaps my ancestors were troglodyte sheep farmers). It feels laboratory like and very focused on the sound coming directly from the speakers, but do you see any potential drawbacks from a lack of more natural, diffuse reflections?
You could argue that it doesn’t sound like most domestic spaces, but that’s not a bad thing! If you’re used to it then I would leave it, if you find yourself repeatedly adding too much reverb to tracks then I’d maybe think about adding something to reflect some sound back in to the room.
@@PresentDayProduction Brilliant - thanks for the speedy response 😁 If anything I routinely add too little reverb as it's so obvious through the monitors so no worries there. I'll stop obsessing about sound and get on with making music! Cheers 👍🏼
I’m starting to do my small room. But I need the desk setup asap coz I’m doing other work that’s not mixing. Is starting with an empty space absolutely essential???
An other question: when you put your speaker in the corner to determine the best listening position, and if you normaly use a 6 inch monitor plus a sub, would you not need to put the sub in the corner as well?
Love the video, great information. Just one question, when small room keeps getting referenced, for example trying to "remove the room", what type of dimensions are we talking that classify a room as a small room? Thanks.
Actually just one more question, towards the end when he's talking about 5cm corner bass traps not working he's referring to an internal air gap yeah? This is what results in the dip in the mids? Looking at how the GIK Soffit bass traps are built for example would this not be the case here for them or do they still suffer from a problem? Thanks
I haven’t seen the GIK ones, I’ll check them out, but basically having an air gap behind your panels that is larger than the panels are thick will give you a mid-range dip
@@PresentDayProduction Yeah that's what I was thinking too, it was just his comment about the 5cm corner bass traps that got me thinking. These GIK ones are very different though, big soffit blocks that go in your corners which are membrane and not broadband. They're big lads at 41x41cm so I'm not even sure you'd leave an airgap with these? What do you think? They're called "GIK Acoustics Soffit Bass Trap". Thanks again for the all the information, I've downloaded Jesco's PDFs too, great stuff.
Apologies, sometimes UA-cam removes comments - it’s out of our control, this happens quite often. Not sure why, it doesn’t always need a link in the comment either!
On the topic of Sonarworks: You can actually do something very similar with REW and parametric equalizers/convolution reverb for a fraction of the cost. I haven't personally tried Sonarworks due to the cost and my room being almost entirely untreated, but the basic concept (using REW) worked wonders for me. I only found out about this recently, but I appear to have a particularly nasty standing wave(?) at around about 155hz and more high mids than there should be. (I assume both are due to the ceiling above me being entirely untreated, but that's not the point of this comment ;D) After moving to the space I'm currently at, I wanted to try and measure the acoustics, despite not having a proper measurement mic. (This stuff is just loads of fun to me personally) After measuring with my Lewitt LCT 440 PURE I felt like I might as well try and generate an eq curve to counteract -some- of the problems. I really didn't expect this to magically turn my setup into something that sounds pro, but saying I was pleasantly surprised would be one heck of an understatement. Everything just cleared up like crazy, the metric ton of mid-mud that used to haunt me just got scooped away and the unpleasant high-mids were tamed. (considering wee talking about a 12-ish-DB cut this shouldn't come as so much of a surprise, but still xD) I expected there to be more artefacts, unpleasantly boosted or cut frequencies, just something (and I'm sure there is), but as it stands, even using a mic absolutely unfit for the purpose, I finally managed to make my monitors sound good enough, for my mixes to translate onto other systems. Now that I've gotten used to it, the difference is like night and day to me and while I *really* want to get some actual acoustic treatment, this method allows me to work much more efficiently and actually be happy with my results. (just in case anyone's going to look at what I've uploaded to my channel: All of that was done before I moved in here, so it doesn't count ~pouts~ [lol]) TL;DR Even when your balance completely sucks due to a lack of acoustic treatment (or especially thereof), using calibration software might enable you to get a *workable* balance out of your system. This isn't so much of a magic fix for everything, as it is an attempt at slapping a band-aid on a flesh wound, however, if your lucky (/unfortunate) enough, it might still improve your sound drastically. I don't think anyone will ever read this far, but if you did: Thank you :D I hope my (severe lack of) experience with room acoustics was enlightening in some way shape or form and wish you the very best on your musical journey henceforth. Have a nice day!
Wow what a great overview of (almost) everything I've been asking myself for my new studio.... But I have a question. Say I have 20 m2 of rockwool 100 mm thick. Would it be better to use it to cover all the corners plus first refelction points for the mixing position, or should I use it for 10 m2 of 200 mm thick to cover the corners first? Obviously 200 mm absorbs more and lower frequencies. But what if you have less rockwool left for the rest of the room?
I would go with 200mm depth (with an air gap behind if you can of course) and really concentrate on treating the listening position. That will give you better low frequency control, and that’s the hard part. So start by getting your listening position in the most even area of the room in terms of bass response, then try treating your first reflection points and see where you are at.
@@PresentDayProduction I’m building my new studio in the attic. It’s got two rather steep slanted rooftops that meet in the top. I’m thinking of filling it up with perhaps even more rock wool 300 perhaps even 400 mm. I’ve been wondering if there are any special aspects to take in account in such a room
If you can fill up the entire ceiling void at that kind of depth and cover it with fabric, then you have a giant ceiling cloud that will also be sucking up a lot of bass energy. And I’d say do it!
Now half way through this collection of gems - I hope to start building my home studio (on a pauper's budget) later this year, and I've been wondering about screen placement. My initial plan was to have 3 medium sized screens, 1 wide one for the mixer window (I have Reaper and no plans to change), 1 for the track window, and 1 for plugins and random shizzle so I'm not constantly opening and closing windows (or compromising with small windows, docks etc.) which drives me bonkers. On the back of this video, looks like I might have to re-think my life! Daydreaming for a moment, wouldn't it be nice to have a lightweight VR headset in which you could see a 'virtual' mixer with all your tracks and plugins etc placed exactly where you want them with no acoustic drawbacks. Then all you'd need would be a room, monitors, a chair and some type of mouse controller. Sorry, I've been watching too much Star Trek lately....
Interesting you should say that - I (James) have a VR headset and there’s software you can download called “Virtual Desktop” which allows for up to five “desktop screens” in VR, even if your computer only physically has one. You could set up the ultimate DAW in VR using this software and not have to worry about it going anywhere. Take into account Passthrough on stuff like the Oculus Quest 2 headsets (where you can see what’s physically in front of you using cameras on the headset) and you have the ability to interact with hardware whilst using your VR DAW.
@@PresentDayProduction Ooh crikey - tomorrow's already here! I'll have to look into that - thanks for the tip James, you guys rock. 🖖Live long and prosper.
Could the huge screen behind the speakers be reflecting omni directional low frequency causing smearing that compromises your stereo image? Just a guess.
Could I ask how you would treat a live room differently than a mixing room? I’m a guitarist and record direct in, when recording. But also use the room for live jam sessions. It’s a 15’ by 38’ walkout basement with double glass doors for the walkout. I’m struggling with the thought of covering the doors that have a lakeside view with sunset. It would kill the vibe and likely result in divorce, murder or both.. There doors are on the narrow wall which quickly coverts the basement into a dungeon like environment when covered. Any thoughts other than those magic wooden beans would be greatly appreciated..
I am going to buy you a new Lav mic for Christmas , the fuzz on that one is a bit . . seventies . I can probably afford to bring you firmly into the nineties .
Thanks Mr Smith, but a couple of new ones arrived in the post this morning, so hopefully they’ll be a LOT better! I think we’ll be in the early 2000s now 🤣
I hear a lot about small rooms in acoustic treatment videos but "small room" is never ever defined! What constitutes a small room? Is every room in the average sized house small? My studio is approximately 18metres square - 3.3 X 5.4 metres is that considered "small" still?
Great video. Love the channel. Dig that Lewitt tshirt but... anyone else feel like their products are being pushed and praised just a bit TOO much lately? I want to try and hopefully like their gear but it almost makes me distrustful of the brand... and (seemingly) every channel that's pushing it.
Thanks Kelly… we’re not sponsored by Lewitt in any way (but they did send us some free T shirts, and I did spill coffee all over the one I was wearing just before we started filming this one) but…. I have to say, in a completely unbiased way… they are REALLY good mics, and I think they are doing for home musos what Røde did twenty years ago… making damn good really affordable!
@@PresentDayProductionThanks. I've had bad experiences though from companies that heavily marketed through youtubers in this way. I remember a few years ago when every UA-cam guitar channel was singing the praises of positive grid products... then the 2 notes stuff. They turned out to be less than groundbreaking (being kind.) I think I'll give a pair of the lewitt sdc mics a shot though. If they turn out to be good kit I'll give you a shout out for the recommendation. Cheers.
@@PresentDayProduction Haha...this video was very informative. Thanks to Jesco, too. I will definitly check his channel for more details. And stay healthy...
1:03:50 I see a great potential for a slightly less informative series of taking the piss out of audio voodoo products, the possibilities are endless. I mean: n-audio speaker pads with Quantum Field Lenses, or Orb Audio Cartridge Warmer, or The High End Novum PMR Premium Resonator, or The Hallograph, or Shakti the electromagnetic stabilizer. There is an unending supply of utter bollocks out there...
@@PresentDayProduction That would be amazing. The amount of BS I've seen is scary. Audiophile Sata cables for og mechanical drives, Audiophile network access points so that your Tidal with already magical MQA can sound its best. Wooden supports for cables that ensure low interference with floor. The madness is staggering.
One more comment, and I'm done. First off - I do hold a college degree in Recording, so I'm no loose cannon-wing-nut. That said, the MAJOR difference from home studios and professionally designed commercial studios is that the "pros" first - and foremost build their live rooms to defeat parallel walls! It's not that hard. If people would deal with this math/build concept FIRST, they'd be amazed how great even a small room would sound BEFORE adding absorption and diffusion. OK. Rant over. BTW, I love this video.
Thanks Jon, although of course it’s not easy to get rid of parallel walls in your home studio without some major house renovation! A lot of modern studios are also going for a rectangular design as you can more easily calculate the room modes. Indeed, when we re-evaluated our space at the end of last year I decided to go into the rectangular room and use that as the basis for my mastering suite, for the simple reason that it is the best ‘sounding’ room in the building with the fewest issues, despite being next to our control room which is of a similar size, with similar acoustic treatment, but your typical ‘squashed diamond’ shape. So it sometimes can’t be an option and when it can it can work very well on paper, but not so well in practice! I lot of what I thought I knew has been thrown out the window in the past six months, hence these videos!
@@PresentDayProduction Definitely have to make the best of what you have. Same way having all the high priced gear would be great, but if you wait until you can afford it, you've missed out on making music!
Aha... so, this is what happened to the outtakes of your 1-minute tips videos, then. All ‘absorbing’ stuff... but the upshot seems to be that if you have a ‘small’ room, you’re buggered. So... is the acoustic-fish-filled speaker aquarium a ‘brill’ idea... or just a load of ‘pollocks’..? Would it ‘eelpout’ a lot... or is it merely a ‘bighead carp’..? Would ‘stone bass’ work best as a lower-frequency ‘mudsucker’, or might they ‘flounder’ in trying to provide ‘temperate bass...?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Edit: I did some new testing after talking to Jesco thru e-mail and I can confirm that 32kg/m3 rockwool works great (maybe even better than 48/64) for broadband absorbers if the specs are around 9000 pa*s/m2. Air flow resistivity spec is very important, beware that not all rockwool has expected afr just by its weight, can vary quite drastically.
I rarely disagree with Jesco, and I mainly treat home studios also. Tests I made with rockwool density did informed me that yes it does make a significant difference. After trial and error I found that it MUST be between 48 kg/m3 and 64 kg/m3 for broadband absorbers and at least 6 inches thick to really grab those lower frequencies, less than 48 it loses efficiency and above 64 it's even worse (which I found very weird), but that's it. Great episode! Keep up the good work!
At a certain density, it starts to become reflective, so the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of higher density options makes sense.
Interesting that you pointed this out. For my broadband panels I opted for 60kg/m3 as I assumed it would target the lower frequencies, plus high frequencies are relatively easy to deal with and I also have carpet.
The panels are 4” thick with a 4” air gap. I’m hoping I didn’t waste my money getting 60kg/m3 vs 45kg/m3.
@@skatepark02 Definitely all good in your case, you still have some acceptable efficiency for sure, not optimal but workable, shouldn't worry too much. In your case, for the future I would increase the panels to 6" thick and 6" gap. I also did some new testing after talking to Jesco thru e-mail and now I can confirm that 32kg/m3 if the specs are around 9000 pa*s/m2 works pretty great also, the key is in the positioning, specially for the low end absorption, you should target every corner possible in your room.
Thank you for asking my question on the show, really appreciate it. I'm gonna carry on just using headphones in my spare bedroom set up/cupboard then. Thanks fellas :)
You’re welcome, and remember, whatever works! If you’re mastering for Sony then you arguably need high end monitors in a perfectly designed, built, and treated space. If you’re working on your own music then headphones and referencing your mix on other systems can be the way to go. Writing songs in a high end studio won’t make your songs any better! Thanks for watching, as always!
So many people need to see this video. UA-cam is packed with people who claim to give treatment advice, but the concept of things breaking down in small rooms negates anything they're saying. When acousticians can't get reliable measurements that fit the models, there's no way a "producer" working in their bedroom is going to get things right. Nevermind the audiophile snake oil products. They're amazing. So much good info here. Thanks, guys.
What a collaboration. I'm so happy to see it.
Couldn't agree more! 🤘🏻
Two monster experts of acoustic treatment
You guys (both Jesco and PresentDayProduction) are just incredible. It is not just gold in your mines, there is platinum, silver, diamonds, ... Everything clear and vivid, as would Allan Alda said. Thank you very much for your work!
Thank you for the kind words! It’s nice to know we’re helping people out, that’s what it’s all about!
Always a pleasure to be in youre company !
Jesko is so helpful, I think I've seen all good videos. He gives really great advice
its hilarious because my room is also my studio and i have a murphy bed that competely folds in on the inside is a matriss outside is treatment , its been a great business plan indeed 😂
38:34 yes! Get a PJ & screen. I ditched my Glass Screen TV between the speakers in 2001 and back then the PJ pictures weren’t great but it made a massive difference to the sound.
Fast forward to now and I have load of treatment that sits behind the PJ screen (2x monsters 3xN23 diffusers 2x 70hz diaphragmatic traps & a polly) where most people have a glass screen.
The whole lot is hidden when the screen is down, it really is the best solution* in my opinion. Glass screens are evil 👿 … that said I still have a small one off to the side of my work position.
Going by the light in your studio, it’s perfect for a screen………..just one problem, *projection is noisy. No way you can have that noise in the same room, it has to be in a box or outside projecting through glass. Like with Northwood’s speakers, doing it right can be a proper pain but you can’t mess it up like you can with speaker placement in walls.
That’s something I am considering for the future, but hadn’t taken in to account the noise a projector will make, so thank you for posting this!
@@PresentDayProduction I've just started using LOGIC remote on an ipad - for critical mixing I could cover the big screen with a small absorber and tweak on the pad.
In the last week I've seen 3 other people reference the start of pensados place being the rough start of their mixing careers, which is very similar to my story!
This is after a decade+ of rarely seeing or meeting anyone from around there.
I’m glad you touched on the computer screen problem. I remember moving mine off the desk away from the speakers and being blown away by the results. Such a powerful tip and yet followed by so few
I literally quit mixing for like a year one time cause I got so frustrated trying to get a good sounding control room!
Thank you for this video! It's so hard to find accurate information on the Internet but you have hit on so many of the questions I have had. 🙌
Wooo - thank you for saying that - "It's not your gear - it's your room."
I find screens make a huge difference, not so much reflections but in most cases they are blocking off axis sound from the monitors. Removing the screen always sounded better. My final solution involved changing my workflow and using a laptop. Getting a typical 14" thin laptop with the highest brightness screen you can find. I find myself doing a lot more work outside the studio on headphones or my home theater setup and when I need to be more serious I move to the studio. In the studio I have two tiny touch screens I use for controlling faders and frequent tasks. Bitwig studio works well on a touch screen, and it helps make up for the limited space of a 14" screen. I found it really does matter the quality/brightness of the laptop screen, you will be miserable if you skimp on it.
Jesco Is the man! I'm Glad to see him here!
OH! A long one!
My hats off to you and Jesco for giving me that 'aha' moment, after running the sinsweep 30-115Hz sample Bass Hunter Technique. I now know my exact listening position in my room, ideal for a flat bass response all thanks to the absolute gold mine of information that you guys help provide. Donation coming your way and I'll help out Jesco while I'm at it. Cheers
Thank you Paul, your support is much appreciated!
Is there a video about the steps involved in the bass hunter technique?
@@anoopht9588 No video, but there is a pdf tutorial. First you register your name and email with Jesco at acousticsinsider.com, then he sends it out to you
@@POGFROGULPOP tried that earlier, but didn't get any pdf
@@anoopht9588 After you register you should automatically get it within a day or 2?
Extremely informative video. Great information and super advice from Jesco that really touched upon various subjects in depth. The only one component missing was James in a dress. Thanks for doing it.
Phil
NYC Area
It took me a while to have time to watch this video but I'm glad I'm doing it now without rushing. Jesco is a fountain of information with a pragmatic approach (just like this channel is). Great talk here guys! Thanks!
He's OK for some things, but for others, he's not fully knowledgeable...
I wouldn't listen to Jesco for low frequency treatment.
@@Oneness100 So, in your opinion, who should I listen to then?
Really useful answer to the density question, thanks. I wish this video existed 18 months ago! The information on this channel is fantastic, I can't actually believe it's free to be honest. 10 years ago I'd have had to pay through the nose for specialist advice like this.
Thank you, Koss! Glad you found it useful, and thank you for your question! And it doesn’t cost anything to share knowledge 👍
Listen with your ears! One of the best audio control lessons i’ve learned from you guys..
Note. Don't be too afraid of using numbers... we are not all put off by some basic (or not so basic) maths, if it helps in understanding what's going on. I know that the publishers of A Brief History Of Time, apparently told Hawking that every extra equation would reduce the numbers of copies sold, but I'm not so sure about that.
Will go and sub to Acoustics Insider, after this. Thanks for the pointer!
@Wayne Brown well, I'll draw the line a partial differential equations(!), but some basic stuff can be illuminating, especially if one wanted to, say do calculations on speaker cabinets, or bass traps, these could be useful!
I know this is completely off-topic but I find it really funny how, despite you two having an amazing camera setup each, you are using the webcam recordings most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the effort taken into making this! I just find it a bit funny. Great video!
Just to get the ‘looking at the camera’ angle. It’s more engaging for you lot!
Best video I've ever seen on the subject.
Brilliant collaboration, I was totally "absorbed"! Watched every single minute of this video! Keep up the good work and great vibes @Acoustics Insider and @PresentDayProduction🙏👍
Thanks for watching! But not for the absorbed joke 🤣🤣 leave the dad jokes to me please 🤪🤪
Love both your channels. Always fantastic material and funny 😊
I've bought a house in the North Norwegian countryside. The lower "apartment" I'm turning into a studio. Been dabbling in studio work for over 20 years. One track I always use to check the bass in the listening area I've chose is The band "Five for Fight", Track "100 years". Listen on good headphones. Then check out in your listening studio monitor position. If the first bass note doesn't ring out like the others, there is something wrong. 😮
love and respect.....
super interesting! thanks
The greatest crossover yet! love it
Awesome video...
In the first room I used as a live room, I put old couches upright in the corners..... now I’m building out a room the best I can and this info is gold! Thanks.
Great🎉🎉 Thanks so much
Love your channel so much guys!
great video this!
EXCELLENT!!!!!!
Jesco is ace
great chat! have some shuffling around the small space to do today haha
Thinking about managing reflections from screens, it occurs to me that the larger curved screens that are now becoming more commonplace are basically acoustic mirrors that likely focus sound on the viewer in probably unhelpful ways.
Yeah, but the backs could also act as convex diffusers! Just cover the bit you’re looking at with a thick layer of absorption 👍🤓
Im about to move into a new place with 2m x 4m room for my music production... I've ben looking for acoustic answers for about a year, and i HAVEN'T been able to grasp as much in this year than 3 hours on this chanel.. I love you guys, and you fit into my sense of humour perfectly. Gonna support you all the way!
Thank you Aleksy! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Super video, thanks!
I like to keep the speakers further away and the screen very low and quite close so it doesn't interfere with the stereo image. A desk with a height adjustable screen section makes this easier.
That was great, so comprehensive!
Thanks for that!
Fantastic
Resonant absorbers sound interesting but rather difficult to do.
Will be looking at your guide, in general !
The idea is to build or buy tunable helmholts resonators. You can of course build static ones, but I would only do that for the lowest node. And even that one would have to be tunable, even if it's just drilling another hole.
great stuff!
I'm in six minutes and already learned a lot! Exited for these 90 minutes! Already signed up on the website in the link :) You got me with just six minutes... :)
Jesco is so awesome! I'm making my second mixing studio right now, and this is great information!
that was great. Im gonna watch it again
Great movie for my sunday afternoon! I knew Jesco's channel and the crossover with yours is better than Marvel and DC mash up! Great job!
Thanks Rafael! More great content coming!
fantastic video, so much new knowledge has been added to my brain!
Epic videoo! this knowladge is extremly nutritive. And you guys are the masters of acoustics. Thanks for sharing it to us, we are learning sooooo much
Thanks Nico! We’re so glad you found it useful, and we’re not masters (well, Jesco is haha) we’ve just been doing this for a very long time now, so kinda know what works and what doesn’t! Thank you for watching 🤓
thankyou for this
Great discussion, thanks for doing it
Thank you for watching, Donald!
Really, really, REALLY interesting video! Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
This was VERY helpful! Thank you so much guys!
Great video! Something else to consider is if there are some acoustic guitars hanging on the wall and are close to the listening position. They can act like passive radiators and can be problematic (which sucks because they look so nice hanging on the wall!).
I suggested the acoustically transparent screen a few weeks ago and it’s something I’m considering. If you guys get to it before I do I’d be very interested in the results. Thank you again for your fantastic content!
Thank you Darren! And stuff rockwool in the guitars and cut the strings off 🤪
Second (but first in spirit)
Great Interview / Q&A Session, Excellent Job. i'm one of the fortunate to be mixing in a cupboard so i A/B between headphones all the time. Keep up the good work guy's.
Great video and wonderful collaboration. Love both your channels so much!
Great video! Lots of great info.
b.b b b b b but should i use API or Neve on the snare? ... Kidding :) . I've been watching/reading Ethan Winer and following his tips and tricks during the last decade. This is golden!
Ahhh Ethan is a legend!
Great post guys, im subscribed to both hehe. Bless
Really love both channels, thanks for joining forces! Awesome video!
Have a couple of questions, don't know if you can answer them here.
Do the acoustic treatment have to be simmetric? Is there an advantage for it or not at all?
Where do I measure the gap from panels in the corner? From the center to the corner? If I have a 15cm deep panel it needs to have 30cm width maximum for the air gap not to be more than 15cm? Hope I could explain it well. Thanks a lot for the excellent content!
Thank you for watching! Yes, you are aiming for symmetry in the room where possible, to maintain the best stereo imaging. Ideally a corner trap should be triangular when viewed from above, then you can maintain and equal air gap - or not have one at all in the corners if you can make the panel thick enough.
@@PresentDayProduction Thanks for the answer, refurbishing my room acoustic at this exact moment and this video came in like 'something that come in at the right time but I don't know the expression in english.'
@@PresentDayProduction This question may come a bit too late, but as the building of my studio progress I came into one crossroad: if I have the possibility of having more treatment on one side than the other what should prevail? Treatment symmetry or treatment quantity? Maybe the right answer is the good and old it depends...
Much valuable information
Thank you chaps for another excellent video! Had me breathing several sighs of relief that advice I've received in the past (and implemented) wasn't all bollocks. Just a quick question: I have a particularly dead control room with lots of treatment. I've got used to it and don't feel too claustrophobic (perhaps my ancestors were troglodyte sheep farmers). It feels laboratory like and very focused on the sound coming directly from the speakers, but do you see any potential drawbacks from a lack of more natural, diffuse reflections?
You could argue that it doesn’t sound like most domestic spaces, but that’s not a bad thing! If you’re used to it then I would leave it, if you find yourself repeatedly adding too much reverb to tracks then I’d maybe think about adding something to reflect some sound back in to the room.
@@PresentDayProduction Brilliant - thanks for the speedy response 😁 If anything I routinely add too little reverb as it's so obvious through the monitors so no worries there. I'll stop obsessing about sound and get on with making music! Cheers 👍🏼
Can trinnov improve a dip in your room? You said in a previous video that a dip in a room remains although room correction is used
Love this episode! Have been consuming in chunks, absolutely love what you do Jesco!
great vid guyss
I’m starting to do my small room. But I need the desk setup asap coz I’m doing other work that’s not mixing. Is starting with an empty space absolutely essential???
An other question: when you put your speaker in the corner to determine the best listening position, and if you normaly use a 6 inch monitor plus a sub, would you not need to put the sub in the corner as well?
Yes, ideally, as you want to excite as much of the room in the low end as possible
Ok thanks for your advice!
Love the video, great information. Just one question, when small room keeps getting referenced, for example trying to "remove the room", what type of dimensions are we talking that classify a room as a small room? Thanks.
Actually just one more question, towards the end when he's talking about 5cm corner bass traps not working he's referring to an internal air gap yeah? This is what results in the dip in the mids? Looking at how the GIK Soffit bass traps are built for example would this not be the case here for them or do they still suffer from a problem? Thanks
Jesco classifies a small room as anything smaller than your average school classroom, so most home studio (and a lot of commercial studio!) spaces.
I haven’t seen the GIK ones, I’ll check them out, but basically having an air gap behind your panels that is larger than the panels are thick will give you a mid-range dip
@@PresentDayProduction Ah cool! I wasn't sure if his definition of a small was changing at all throughout or not, thanks.
@@PresentDayProduction Yeah that's what I was thinking too, it was just his comment about the 5cm corner bass traps that got me thinking. These GIK ones are very different though, big soffit blocks that go in your corners which are membrane and not broadband. They're big lads at 41x41cm so I'm not even sure you'd leave an airgap with these? What do you think? They're called "GIK Acoustics Soffit Bass Trap". Thanks again for the all the information, I've downloaded Jesco's PDFs too, great stuff.
What about cylindrical bass traps? How do they stack up (pun) to the normal corner trap?
They can work really, really well without taking up an enormous amount of room. Should we do a DIY tube trap video?
@@PresentDayProductionI made a comment. I think it got deleted. That might be because I posted a link. Sorry if that was the case.
@@PresentDayProduction but yes, please make that video.
Apologies, sometimes UA-cam removes comments - it’s out of our control, this happens quite often. Not sure why, it doesn’t always need a link in the comment either!
I feel like I'm starting a long journey towards better sound.
Is 4 inch clouds over mix area ok or should they be 6 inches?
On the topic of Sonarworks: You can actually do something very similar with REW and parametric equalizers/convolution reverb for a fraction of the cost. I haven't personally tried Sonarworks due to the cost and my room being almost entirely untreated, but the basic concept (using REW) worked wonders for me. I only found out about this recently, but I appear to have a particularly nasty standing wave(?) at around about 155hz and more high mids than there should be. (I assume both are due to the ceiling above me being entirely untreated, but that's not the point of this comment ;D)
After moving to the space I'm currently at, I wanted to try and measure the acoustics, despite not having a proper measurement mic. (This stuff is just loads of fun to me personally) After measuring with my Lewitt LCT 440 PURE I felt like I might as well try and generate an eq curve to counteract -some- of the problems.
I really didn't expect this to magically turn my setup into something that sounds pro, but saying I was pleasantly surprised would be one heck of an understatement.
Everything just cleared up like crazy, the metric ton of mid-mud that used to haunt me just got scooped away and the unpleasant high-mids were tamed.
(considering wee talking about a 12-ish-DB cut this shouldn't come as so much of a surprise, but still xD)
I expected there to be more artefacts, unpleasantly boosted or cut frequencies, just something (and I'm sure there is), but as it stands, even using a mic absolutely unfit for the purpose, I finally managed to make my monitors sound good enough, for my mixes to translate onto other systems. Now that I've gotten used to it, the difference is like night and day to me and while I *really* want to get some actual acoustic treatment, this method allows me to work much more efficiently and actually be happy with my results. (just in case anyone's going to look at what I've uploaded to my channel: All of that was done before I moved in here, so it doesn't count ~pouts~ [lol])
TL;DR Even when your balance completely sucks due to a lack of acoustic treatment (or especially thereof), using calibration software might enable you to get a *workable* balance out of your system. This isn't so much of a magic fix for everything, as it is an attempt at slapping a band-aid on a flesh wound, however, if your lucky (/unfortunate) enough, it might still improve your sound drastically.
I don't think anyone will ever read this far, but if you did: Thank you :D I hope my (severe lack of) experience with room acoustics was enlightening in some way shape or form and wish you the very best on your musical journey henceforth. Have a nice day!
I read that far! Thanks for posting, and glad you got a good result!
Wow what a great overview of (almost) everything I've been asking myself for my new studio....
But I have a question. Say I have 20 m2 of rockwool 100 mm thick. Would it be better to use it to cover all the corners plus first refelction points for the mixing position, or should I use it for 10 m2 of 200 mm thick to cover the corners first? Obviously 200 mm absorbs more and lower frequencies. But what if you have less rockwool left for the rest of the room?
I would go with 200mm depth (with an air gap behind if you can of course) and really concentrate on treating the listening position. That will give you better low frequency control, and that’s the hard part. So start by getting your listening position in the most even area of the room in terms of bass response, then try treating your first reflection points and see where you are at.
@@PresentDayProduction I’m building my new studio in the attic. It’s got two rather steep slanted rooftops that meet in the top. I’m thinking of filling it up with perhaps even more rock wool 300 perhaps even 400 mm. I’ve been wondering if there are any special aspects to take in account in such a room
If you can fill up the entire ceiling void at that kind of depth and cover it with fabric, then you have a giant ceiling cloud that will also be sucking up a lot of bass energy. And I’d say do it!
Now half way through this collection of gems - I hope to start building my home studio (on a pauper's budget) later this year, and I've been wondering about screen placement. My initial plan was to have 3 medium sized screens, 1 wide one for the mixer window (I have Reaper and no plans to change), 1 for the track window, and 1 for plugins and random shizzle so I'm not constantly opening and closing windows (or compromising with small windows, docks etc.) which drives me bonkers. On the back of this video, looks like I might have to re-think my life!
Daydreaming for a moment, wouldn't it be nice to have a lightweight VR headset in which you could see a 'virtual' mixer with all your tracks and plugins etc placed exactly where you want them with no acoustic drawbacks. Then all you'd need would be a room, monitors, a chair and some type of mouse controller. Sorry, I've been watching too much Star Trek lately....
Interesting you should say that - I (James) have a VR headset and there’s software you can download called “Virtual Desktop” which allows for up to five “desktop screens” in VR, even if your computer only physically has one. You could set up the ultimate DAW in VR using this software and not have to worry about it going anywhere.
Take into account Passthrough on stuff like the Oculus Quest 2 headsets (where you can see what’s physically in front of you using cameras on the headset) and you have the ability to interact with hardware whilst using your VR DAW.
@@PresentDayProduction Ooh crikey - tomorrow's already here!
I'll have to look into that - thanks for the tip James, you guys rock. 🖖Live long and prosper.
Maybe one day I’ll find a way to put it into a video that can be useful to our audience!
@@PresentDayProduction 👍pretty please.
Could the huge screen behind the speakers be reflecting omni directional low frequency causing smearing that compromises your stereo image? Just a guess.
Hi guys, what is your opinions on setting up a 3.3mx3.3m square room with a diagonal listening position in one corner? Thanks :)
Could I ask how you would treat a live room differently than a mixing room?
I’m a guitarist and record direct in, when recording. But also use the room for live jam sessions.
It’s a 15’ by 38’ walkout basement with double glass doors for the walkout.
I’m struggling with the thought of covering the doors that have a lakeside view with sunset. It would kill the vibe and likely result in divorce, murder or both..
There doors are on the narrow wall which quickly coverts the basement into a dungeon like environment when covered.
Any thoughts other than those magic wooden beans would be greatly appreciated..
How do you find where the truest sound is and not just what you like?
I was supposed to go to sleep early today, but i think i struck gold here, so sleep is for the weak :D
I am going to buy you a new Lav mic for Christmas , the fuzz on that one is a bit . . seventies . I can probably afford to bring you firmly into the nineties .
Thanks Mr Smith, but a couple of new ones arrived in the post this morning, so hopefully they’ll be a LOT better! I think we’ll be in the early 2000s now 🤣
@@PresentDayProduction Woooohoooo , welcome to the future guys! ;)
I’ll send you our revised Christmas list 🤣 It’s mainly cat related to be honest. And bacon. 🥓
My favourite people coming together!
But also,
WHY ARE YOU POSTING VIDEOS DURING THE AZERBAIJIAN GRAND PRIIX?!?
#Priorities
Your priorities are all wrong lol
Exactly that, and Nürburgring 24h too
@@MrGreenAKAguci00
My Comrade. 🤜 🤛
@@UncleBenjs
Don't judge me. I'm a weak man. 😂
@@LongshanMusic LOL
I hear a lot about small rooms in acoustic treatment videos but "small room" is never ever defined! What constitutes a small room? Is every room in the average sized house small? My studio is approximately 18metres square - 3.3 X 5.4 metres is that considered "small" still?
Great video. Love the channel. Dig that Lewitt tshirt but... anyone else feel like their products are being pushed and praised just a bit TOO much lately? I want to try and hopefully like their gear but it almost makes me distrustful of the brand... and (seemingly) every channel that's pushing it.
Thanks Kelly… we’re not sponsored by Lewitt in any way (but they did send us some free T shirts, and I did spill coffee all over the one I was wearing just before we started filming this one) but…. I have to say, in a completely unbiased way… they are REALLY good mics, and I think they are doing for home musos what Røde did twenty years ago… making damn good really affordable!
@@PresentDayProductionThanks. I've had bad experiences though from companies that heavily marketed through youtubers in this way. I remember a few years ago when every UA-cam guitar channel was singing the praises of positive grid products... then the 2 notes stuff. They turned out to be less than groundbreaking (being kind.) I think I'll give a pair of the lewitt sdc mics a shot though. If they turn out to be good kit I'll give you a shout out for the recommendation. Cheers.
Aquarium speakers. Best fish would probably be a Bass. :-)
Studio back wall aquarium complete with sea bass absorption.... I'll see myself out
Wait a sec... Didn't Dave Rat also start out in Aerospace as an engineer? Very interesting.
35:39 I fear fish down a rabbit hole would not be good for the fish or the rabbit
Unless it was a fish eating rabbit. Or an aquabbit that lived in water filled burrows. I’ll shut up.
"So.. what's the best fish for low mid ?" :-)
We still don’t know. But bass is best for bass 🤓
@@PresentDayProduction Haha...this video was very informative. Thanks to Jesco, too. I will definitly check his channel for more details. And stay healthy...
1:03:50 I see a great potential for a slightly less informative series of taking the piss out of audio voodoo products, the possibilities are endless. I mean: n-audio speaker pads with Quantum Field Lenses, or Orb Audio Cartridge Warmer, or The High End Novum PMR Premium Resonator, or The Hallograph, or Shakti the electromagnetic stabilizer. There is an unending supply of utter bollocks out there...
And I think we might be just the channel to do that!
@@PresentDayProduction That would be amazing. The amount of BS I've seen is scary. Audiophile Sata cables for og mechanical drives, Audiophile network access points so that your Tidal with already magical MQA can sound its best. Wooden supports for cables that ensure low interference with floor. The madness is staggering.
But the wooden supports counteract any microphony in the cables 🤓 don’t they?!
But the wooden supports counteract any microphony in the cables 🤓 don’t they?!
One more comment, and I'm done. First off - I do hold a college degree in Recording, so I'm no loose cannon-wing-nut. That said, the MAJOR difference from home studios and professionally designed commercial studios is that the "pros" first - and foremost build their live rooms to defeat parallel walls! It's not that hard. If people would deal with this math/build concept FIRST, they'd be amazed how great even a small room would sound BEFORE adding absorption and diffusion. OK. Rant over. BTW, I love this video.
Thanks Jon, although of course it’s not easy to get rid of parallel walls in your home studio without some major house renovation! A lot of modern studios are also going for a rectangular design as you can more easily calculate the room modes. Indeed, when we re-evaluated our space at the end of last year I decided to go into the rectangular room and use that as the basis for my mastering suite, for the simple reason that it is the best ‘sounding’ room in the building with the fewest issues, despite being next to our control room which is of a similar size, with similar acoustic treatment, but your typical ‘squashed diamond’ shape. So it sometimes can’t be an option and when it can it can work very well on paper, but not so well in practice! I lot of what I thought I knew has been thrown out the window in the past six months, hence these videos!
@@PresentDayProduction Definitely have to make the best of what you have. Same way having all the high priced gear would be great, but if you wait until you can afford it, you've missed out on making music!
Aha... so, this is what happened to the outtakes of your 1-minute tips videos, then.
All ‘absorbing’ stuff... but the upshot seems to be that if you have a ‘small’ room, you’re buggered.
So... is the acoustic-fish-filled speaker aquarium a ‘brill’ idea... or just a load of ‘pollocks’..? Would it ‘eelpout’ a lot... or is it merely a ‘bighead carp’..? Would ‘stone bass’ work best as a lower-frequency ‘mudsucker’, or might they ‘flounder’ in trying to provide ‘temperate bass...?
Funny when I started watching this Channel I thought about the guy u are talking to here...
You didn't comment on the acoustics of a room full of cats! :)
Cats are the best absorbers and, with the average purr extending down to 20hz (really!), excellent tools for tuning the room as well!
@@PresentDayProduction Great answer! :)
The crooked diffusor on the door makes me nauseous.