I've honestly noticed that in situations where a group/idol is facing a hate train due to kpop fans being dissatisfied with their weak area in talent, the best way to earn back their respect is to allow the artists to quietly work on improving their skills behind the scenes and allow the result of their efforts during practice to speak for itself during their performances. Evidently, these improvements come with time and fans should be patient. In that sense, I agree with the fact that source music really didn't help with Sakura's situation with this documentary as they kind of prevented her from taking accountability for her weakness in vocals. For example, aespa had a hate train earlier in their career due to lacking stage presence. However, nowadays I can say that I really enjoy watching their performances and they seem more in sync as a group.
Exactly same thing happen with Ive, during their debut they got hate for not being able to sing live and now after lolapalooza they have received major praise por their live vocals
@@mohhhhhhhhgjghvcy I feel like Armaggedon's stage performances truly solidified how much Giselle and Winter have improved their stage presence. I think aespa as a group has the potential to become one of the best performers of 4th gen.
@@Reve-to-the-V YESSS i was already shocked by Winter in Drama but then Armageddon showed me that Giselle IS THERE TOO!! The way she ate that dance practice video OH MY GOOD!!! They all improved sm tbh even Karina and Ningning especially my girl NN, i didnt really get the hype about her SP i just thought she was ok but that was until Drama and Armageddon. Now Aespa is a complete group, with top tier vocals, good rap line, great dancers and now becoming amazing performers. I’m so proud to be a My since Day1! Seing their growth and how the public has come to appreciate them more is so satisfying 🥰
Not really though. It depends on what the subculture is. Some definitely lean towards so called ‘cancel culture’, whereas in others you wouldn’t have an issue unless said person actually proved it or took you to court or something. Also I see this being used as an argument against younger or more liberal people. But let’s not forget the entire internet losing their shit over a boxer who was born female, and straight up spouting conjecture and lies about her. If we want to have this argument then it’s about a larger tendency that we as individuals have to forgo due process if an assumption or unsubstantiated claim fits our cognitive biases and beliefs.
she doesn't even need a "brutally honest" teacher, she just needs one who can respectfully communicate her difficulties, what she has to do to overcome them and also make it clear that change requires a lot effort and discipline
she needs a teacher that doesn't immediately relent the moment she started to show tears. idk what the teacher's strategy is but it's not working. they need to start being stricter.
her difficulties that strain her vocal cords are in her head, but it's not very effective to work on alleviating mental pressure when this mental pressure is with you 28 days a month.
The best thing to shut up about”haters” would’ve been to give them vocal training in private while they take a small hiatus and return better than ever. Instead hybe threw them a pity party
@@mariasol1545 They say that the documentary was planned way before the hate train? Which would explain why the focus was on Sakura when in truth she was the only one who got out of the Coachella performance unscathed with praises. It doesn't feel like a pity party more like a idiotic decision to go forward with something when the situation isn't as it used to be.
@@cheesySOS Idk. The PR team is making my head spin with the min heejin issue. I think it could also be that people are merely just ready enough to hate on Hybe at the moment so like they just gotta breathe wrong once and they will get attacked.
@@everglowup truee🥹😍what are u using to edit??? i have an editing channel and i loooved the start of the video looking like netflix. did u use canva templates for that? or create it urself???
Releasing a documentary and overworking Le Sserafim is the worst thing they could have done. They should have put Le Sserafim on hiatus where they actually improve their vocals. So next comeback they prove they can sing live. Pushing them more in the public eyes will just get them more criticism.
@@everglowupCan I say something? Is it possible that Sakura thinks that the vocals don't need to be taken seriously as the generation keeps on changing? Like in 2nd gen, it was all about vocals while in 3rd gen, it was about choreography and to some degree raps and in 4th gen, it was about choreography. I have been seeing the importance of vocals videos now these months.
@@Yo99753 It is possible, and if that's the case, that's not a good thing. If she was the group's rapper it would be completely understandable but vocals are taken so seriously in general atthe moment and if she doesn't believe they are important then she's gravely mistaken because k-pop makes music, and in music, vocals are always gonna matter.
To the people saying "Good job to IVE and aespa for not listening to the hate," neither group should've been hated in the first place. Idk why y'all act like hate trains are acceptable, they are not, and they're completely pointless. Actually valid criticism is completely masked by disgusting comments. aespa, Itzy, IVE, Le Sserafim, and ILLIT literally get more hate than kpop idols who actually committed literal crimes, it's baffling
well you can't stop groups to have a hate-train, bc you can't control other people's actions. even if all international fans stopped participating in hate trains, you have the entire asian continent of people who would. and you can't do anything about it🤷
@@lovelymill You can always try. Because, in the end, the Idols are just humans and have feelings too. They aren't robots. But at least you don't participate in them because I despise all these haters. Because some of them have baseless hate, they just hate for fun. And for the people with based hate, try put yourself in their shoes. How would you feel getting all that hate thrown at your face? No one to hold you, to tell you everything's going to be okay. Just saying, not to you obv. But the people who do join hate trains.
aespa ignored the hate and listened to the valid criticism, which should be the standard for any artist. on the other hand, le sserafim ignored the hate AND the valid criticism, which is a problem
I was scared when I clicked on this video but relieved to see this is a criticism of Source Music's PR rather than having it be "Sakura sucks" video like the rest
Well the problem is sakura is actually Shown literally expressing herself to her VOCAL COACH. It doesn’t make sense to litterally say she’s not trying when she’s literally learning to sing better with a Vocal coach and litterally learning from the vocal coach in both the documentary and every single video surfacing. It’s incredibly stupid to act as if everyone grows and improves at the same pace. What source should have down is not responded and not have shown her most vulnerable moments. She’s literally breaking down and they are putting that out. It’s ridiculous they would just place her crying and having an anxiety attack in the documentary. It’s such a horrible thing they did. And i definitely agree the title of this video definitely invites sakura haters to join the club and bully her more
@@Bunnybunny5656I understand that point, I swear. But I do still disagree. I think, showcasing their weaknesses, which is the precise opposite of what the Kpop industry is all about, which is perfection and a polished picture perfect lie, to sell to Fans, was a HUGE risk, and kinda.. brave. I can't Look at this, and say "buhhh, this is just Hybe PR to get sympathy"... I see many people saying that, but honestly, I think that says more about them and what they have in their hearts, then it does about Le Sserafim, or even Hybe. I think, after what happend to Idols like Sulli and Hara, who were very real people, showing themselves raw and vulnerable on social Media, and getting dragged for it over years, ending in mental illness and self-exit, that Industry needs a great reality Check. At the time, they wanted to persue the 'Sulli Act', a law that was supposed to end the online anonymity, and prevent Cyber bullying, but after a few months, it was forgotten and thrown under the rug. And Look where we are now... Not only do Idols need to get more protection from Online crimes and harrassment, but Trainees and parents need to get a reality Check and know what they get themselves and their minor Kids into, when they choose that carreer path. This documentary may Not be what people wanted to see, but I do believe it's what people, and specially the Kpop industry, needed. Le Sserafim may be lacking on many things, but they also don't need to be completely discredited or the emotions shown in the docu completely invalidaded, Just because of an alleged "pity party" for Hybe. Whatever the Intention behind the Idea to publish it was, I think this is a rare glimpse of what is really going on behind the scenes for MANY of those Idols and Kpop groups. I'm sure, every single Idol can relate to those insecurities and fears. And we May Not understand it, but I believe this industry needed this.
This is 100% a "Sakura sucks" video like the rest. Ignoring the actual improvements, calling her defending her members after Coachella weekend 1 a "crybaby response" (when the actual criticisms of Coachella 1 were at Yunjin and Eunchae; Sakura did surprisingly well), implying she doesn't deserve her place in Le Sserafim, downplaying the haters and saying what she really needs is "harsh criticism."
@@Pookasoul that’s all well and all but there was no reason the industry punching bag was the best group to show that. It just fueled fire. Look at this video. Majority of it is everglow just invalidating exactly what your saying shouldn’t be invalidated. She compared sakura to her ex izone members. Claimed she’s not making an effort to grow and improve, and literally marked the entire document series as a pity party. If a kpop UA-camr that’s racking in thousands of viewers and hundreds of commenters is speaking like this how do you think the millions of others likely feels about it? It’s very easy to sway sheep. Most kpop fans won’t even listen past the first few minutes and see the title and just assume there’s Al other person making a video proving sakura “is a bad singer” or “not trying to improve” ect, ect. Whatever other negative narratives they are going for. But truth of the matter is sakura at Coachella was THE most Stable and consistent and these documentaries were filmed before Coachella so that shows improvement yet it’s ignored. I completely disagree with having sakura be so vulnerable so soon during a hate train. It’s done nothing but fuel it. And now haters have amo. I just saw a sakura hater who had a profile pic that was a screen shot of sakura during her anxiety attack back stage. Like that’s sick!
What does your being a PR student have to do with your comment??? 😂. You really could've just said, "this vid is VERY interesting and informative. thank you so much for this well put together video." 😂😂😂
watching this video, IVE is such a great example of RESILIENCE. I'm not a fan of these ggs, just a casual listener, and seeing how IVE - with still very young members, overcame their hate trains, improved, and delivered better performances every time, even Lollapalooza, big shout out to them. They never let the hatred take advantage of them and affect them publicly at least. Wonyoung girlie was so young and still is and she always keeps her head up despite facing constant nonsense haters, IVE works so hard, this kind of attitude is so exemplary. I just wanted to praise them for that, because again I'm not a fan but they genuinely impress me, they always turn the tables and change the public opinion, and gain sympathy and empathy
wonyoung's mindset is really something that we all need to take notes from. she has said mutiple times that she accepts all the criticisms when they are based on facts. seeing how much she has improved vocally, she definitely took the criticisms gracefully and worked on herself. ive's pr strategy is to never respond directly and just showed them one way or another. they know they are lacking in some ways and they are continually working on proving that.
I can't say much about sakura as a person, but this girl has been a idol (jpop and kpop) for so many years, which adds to the criticism, because it gets to a point where the pu lic asks themselves "how are you still so subpar when you've been at this for so long?" and I find myself questioning her lack of improvement even more after the doc, rather than blindly sympathising.
It's mainly because she came from groups that didn't need her to sing well at all. Akb48 usually sings in unison, and she barely got more than 6 seconds of lines in Izone. Most of her experience has ben as a subvocalist
@@watashi5700That group has a system that reward the "idols" that manage to improve and learn to sing and dance making them center. Even if you are popular the center spot is for the most skilled ones, not the mos popular. One of her skeletons in the closset is the rumour how she managed to snatch that place without the required skills for it.
I was thinking the same thing. If your job is to be a singer and you're a bad singer after many years of professional trial, then maybe you're in the wrong field. I wouldn't try to be an accountant if I were bad at math! Seems like common sense
@@belaytriksYeah as a jpop fan this is all way to familiar, I remember when she was announced as one of the centers for Kibouteki Refrain and people were (rightfully ngl) upset that it wasn’t either a different member (namely Yuki Kashiwagi) or they thought Mayu Watanabe should’ve just done it by herself. Plus people thought she was fake, entitled and bratty on the episode of their variety show AKBINGO! That was promoting the song. Shit also really hit the fan too when she was the center of Kimi Wa Melody, AKB48’s 10th anniversary song. Now, some background info in the simplest way possible, is that there are 7 members, Atsuko Maeda, Yuko Oshima, Minami Takahashi, Mayu Watanabe, Haruna Kojima, Mariko Shinoda and Tomomi Itano, who are considered the “Kami 7” or God 7, they were and still are the most popular and influential members, and whenever you ask someone about the 48g, they’re gonna be named first. At the time that Kimi Wa Melody came out, Atsuko Maeda, Yuko Oshima, Tomomi Itano and Mariko Shinoda had already left (and Minami Takahashi was getting ready to leave as well) but they were brought back for the song, and it just created a shitstorm where everyone was upset that the original Kami 7 members were brought back and yet this “random girl” (Sakura) was the center for their 10th anniversary? The fact that she was from a sister group also added to people’s dissatisfaction. It’s not even just the Kami 7, this was now the 2nd time that people felt that Yuki Kashiwagi was robbed as a center by Sakura and Minami Minegishi was part of the original lineup and yet she wasn’t even included? Even the defense that the song was about the old AKB evolving into the new AKB didn’t really hold up because why weren’t Haruka Shimazaki, Yui Yokoyami, or Mion Mukaichi chosen if that was the point? Although imo part if this is kpop fans not understanding jpop bc Yume De Kiss Me was extremely unpopular, AKB has this thing called Request Hour where fans vote on their top 100 favorite songs, and Yume De Kiss Me PEAKED at #95 out of 100, and people even called it a knockoff of Miyuki Watanabe’s Warukii, which is one of if not the most iconic AKB solos. (Although for what it’s worth Sakura’s other solo song “Kanojo” was a lot more positively received and I really like it!) And even in HKT48, there were other members like Haruka Kodama, Chiyori Nakanishi and ESPECIALLY Rino Sashihara who were also considered pillar members, kpop stans kinda set her up by acting like she was this huge star in AKB when she was like…the 11th most popular member in a spin-off branch of AKB, which btw, even then, SKE, NMB and even JKT I’m pretty sure are more popular than HKT)
Watching the documentary, I had the same thought-why would Source Music provide more fuel for people to target Sakura? Their attempt to showcase a 'sad, vulnerable, and authentic' side of the girls seems misguided. While I can empathize with how she felt, it comes across as naive and tone-deaf for both the company and her to assume that people wouldn't use this against her even more.
Sakura response to the Coachella backlash was the killing point cuz girl. I've never seen any idol say no we did do good it was our best and those who liked it liked it.. idols always say we will do better even when winning awards. Also I get it some ppl will never be great singers but come on she isn't the best dancer or performer so like what is going on.
She said that because they indeed did good in Coachella if you only focus on dance, performing and stage presence, yes it can be considered their best performance yet if we count it in general however the vocals were horrible and kinda overshadowed that because that's the main point of being a singer, is knowing how to sing.
@@music-lover-xoxo700 Yes so she shouldn't have been so obtuse to ignore the vocal criticism. She can talk about what they did well with performing while acknowledging the criticism that's the problem.
You can just click "not interested" and go about your day. But all of you sit here for months on end not being able to come to terms with their vocal issues. I feel second hand emberassement from the inability to simply disconnect and live your life.
It seems like source music still isn't giving her vocal lessons she needs Like wen u see in the documentary how they tell her to sing this way or in this key but she still doesn't get it It's like they didn't teach her the basics of singing, which I think she needs to start on.
@@music-lover-xoxo700 the thing is it was their best performance, sure, but the bar is too high for the public. Compared to other groups, their "best" performance was not up to par in the gp's eyes.
I think the hate got a lot worse because of fearnots reaction to the well deserved criticism. They constantly play the victims and make up excuses, while simultaneously insulting other groups and Fandom - especially Ive and Aespa, groups who both improved after receiving criticism. At this point it feels like le sserafim will only improve if their income will take a hit because of the criticism. Why else would they? They have their brainless mob of fan making up excuses, emotionally blackmailing people who voice well deserved criticism against the girls, while still throwing their money at le sserafim for doing less than the bare minimum as an idol.
@@whathappened5797 sure but doubling down and calling an objectively bad performance your "best performance yet" was a pretty dumb move from a PR perspective, even if that's genuinely how she felt. accepting valid criticism is important for an artist to actually improve, instead of chalking it ALL up to unfounded hate (which I'm also not denying the existence of, especially with female idols)
@@jhg440 so true!!! Back then people criticized her poor dancing skills and lack of energy and enthusiasm while performing on a stage. But now look at her, she looks like she genuinely has way more fun and energy while performing and this not only improves her stage presence but also makes the crowd enjoy the performance with her. As much as I love lesserafim and the girls they definitely need harsh criticism but not hate. Hate will affect artist's mental health but criticism is for their own good as it will help them to improve their skills and not repeat the same mistake again.
I think source need to give these girls a break. Like give them a year hiatus, and take that time to improve their laking skills. Being in a big company is their advantage, even though they disappear , people will not forget about them, and this alone time, can help the company and idols both to see every situation objectively.
@@luna740the hiatus wouldn’t only be for their skills, it would also be for public opinion. At some point in the future, another girl group would suffer a hate train, which would make any minimal improvement from le sserafim look amazing
I'm a marketing major with a concentration in digital media and a minor in psychology. Showing Sakura cry in this circumstance was one of the worst moves that the company could have taken. If they had shown her crying after clearly seeing her practice hard and improve, her crying would have been her best weapon. Instead, they showed her getting genuine constructive criticism and breaking down to consecutively Sakura doing nothing to improve her vocals. The intent for pity yet being accused of playing victim should have been expected
Did you watch the ep ? She cries while having a lesson with a vocal coach, it's not accurate to say she isn't shown trying to improve. I agree it was a bad move from Hybe tho.
@lasciemie6346 others have pointed out in another video how the vocal lesson was bad - sitting down hunched over, no warm ups, no talk of technique or technical feedback and the vocal coach comes off as a motivational speaker rather than a proper vocal coach. It would have been better if she was given genuine technical feedback, see her work on that feedback for a long period of time and then cry as with Iroha from Illit.
@@shermk7955 bruh her lack of vocal is because of her mental health. What she needs to work on is her CONFIDENCE which is why her coach give her motivation. Vocal coach not only teach people how to sing and their technic but sometimes also need to deal with their clients mental health too because it's one of the factor to help people able to SING, heck, even just talking need confident too
Just because you're studying those major doesn't mean you have the emphaty and critical thinking to THINK about this. BRUH girl is literally in vocal room PRACTICING and you still saying she doesn't do anything to improve. She literally said she was MORE MOTIVATED to practice in her letter that people hates on and the vocal coach literally asked "why you lost your confidence?" After making a mistake WHICH IS the main problem sakura has, WHICH WHAT SHE WORKED ON. Yes I agree this is a bad PR move but dear god
In the first documentary, she mentioned she knew she couldn’t sing and that’s the same issue years later . It sends the wrong message about her and the company to the public You don’t get to say a group is performance based and their vocals are literally not up to par
But Sakura has improved vocal wise from the first to the second documentary. Like she's actually started to develop healthy and proper vocals compared to before hand. That she isn't improving in the speed that people want or expect is another case. And it's impossible for her not to get affected by how people are attacking her, so of course it's gonna be something that takes up a lot of space within her mind.
@@dharling97 I’m not saying she shouldn’t be affected . She’s allowed to have emotions but displaying that publicly for the second time isn’t good . The documentary should have focused on her working hard . Her crying isn’t the issue . It’s the fact that it was public ie the documentary, it just goes to show she’s an easy target hence let’s bully her even more . It sent the wrong message out there .
@@dharling97wow, for a globally recognized “senior” artist that earns way more than any average person could ever dream, the bar is set pretty low isn’t it
The thing is, Sakura could learn to sing easily if she just had a good teacher. And I don’t just mean a teacher that knows how to teach singing, but some that understands insecurity and knows how to work with her to gain confidence in her ability through teaching her correctly. Based on what I’ve seen from Hybe groups, I don’t think they have a particularly talented singing teacher.
my question is why isn't Sakura working on her anxiety if it's a problem even bigger than her singing abilities? like, can't the company fit a therapy session here and there in her schedule?
As someone who struggles with anxiety I just want to say that it's not as simple as that. From my personal experience, it took years for me to accept that there's smtg wrong with me. I didn't want to see any therapist cus where I'm from mental health is a joke. And let's not forget Asian countries are still closed minded in that matters. The kpop industry isn't really the best environment to be in when you're in that state but as she said she also scared of stopping. You could say that's on her then but anxiety is such a self destructive shit. It's really complex.
The theraphy needs to happen outside of Hybe and with a theraphist that force her and guide her outside of her comfort zone. That is not that easy to get and really uncomfortable to handle unless you are determinated to do it. Taking in consideration how much she has "improved" as singer... I have some doubts she wants to go trought that.
When was it confirmed Sakura has anxiety? Her crying for sympathy does not mean her having any anxiety. It was obvious she was shedding fake tears for the camera. Lot of documentaries about celebrities are scripted. Hybe thought releasing a documentary that shows the crying will stop criticism. What Hybe should have done instead is to put Le Sserafim on hiatus and let them improve their vocals. So next comeback they will prove haters that they took the criticism and actually improved. But Hybe is a lazy company only after money, they could care less about their artists fans. They are only greedy after money.
@@everglowup That's fair, but i don't think there's anything wrong in showing her crying as it's a completely normal respose to getting harrassed. Besides, they did show her working hard later in the same episode
@@everglowup but she is not a full grown adult is she?? Expecting her to react with full emotional maturity is a bit too much. Even full grown mature adult won't be able to handle all this in a positive way. People are just plain cruel to her in the name of postive criticism and because she isn't a good vocalist. Pointing it out again and again like this won't do any good. Not like k-pop if filled with great vocalist. Talking about her vocals is one thing but the way people are going on about it, it's cruel. Plain cruel. No one can handle it in a positive way.
Her crying was never the issue. It's the way they made it public. Crying isn't something to be frowned upon but in this case, she is being super vulnerable to the wrong people (her haters bc of the hate train). Her crying is showcasing that the haters have broken her which is what haters will use to their advantage. This is not good for Sakura's image as it is being tarnished.
A good reminder is Leeseo was 15years old at the time of her hate train & it was mostly Fearnots dragging her Now that the roles are reversed they have a fully victim mindset as if they wasn't loud,laughing & bullying IVE & Dives from the middle of 2022-3rd Quarter 2023.. bare in mind a 15year old +medium comany handle this more maturely & strategically than a 26year old & a company with better management,investments & connections behind them.....
i am glad i do not see this much anymore but i used to see people put Leeseo down to bring up Eunchae. i am a dive and i LOVE eunchae. this made me so mad. and they gotta leave our Leeseo OUTTT for now and forevermore omg!!! btw Leeseo is great I just saw her perform, IVE is great
@@Mal.victory I love both groups and it's disgusting the way they drag the members (from either group) but from an objective point of view, both sides have had a victim mindset (not the groups, but the fans) and it's soooo childish to "fight" bullying with more bullying.
No bro, I am a dive but everybody were bullying Ive and everybody is bullying le sserafim now, this isn’t just a fandom problem. And the action of their fan don’t make it okay to send them any hate comment (aside from criticism)
No one is saying she’s not allowed to cry or being angry or hurt . She’s human and allowed to. But revealing this to the public for the second time is not a good look, it just makes her appear annoying or immature getting her more hate
@@foivechan I genuinely don't understand what y'all want from idols. Do y'all want them to be more human or just be the perfect idol they are supposed to be?? Like, if I got even half of the hate she got, I think I would probably be in a worst state than her. Yeah the criticisms are valid but the girl is also doing her best, as much as you don't wanna see it. The main issue with Sakura atp is her confidence and anxiety. As someone who also struggles with both low self-esteem and anxiety I can assure how hard it is to even do well in smtg you're supposed to be good in. The amount of works you put in doesn't help since you seem to always do things wrong and when everyone is so loud about how bad and talentless you are it just mess everything up. I think she needs to focus on her mental health first and people, fan and whoever should also be patient about her progress. I don't think invalidating her feeling is the best way to help her. She said herself that she's talentless so she pretty much aware of what u people criticize her for so what's the point that out when it's clearly not helping her improve. It's like criticizing an obese person who's struggling with weight loss even tho they're going to gym. Can y'all appreciate her efforts and just wait?? And what if she shows that side. She's human, she ain't perfect. She have all the right to be "immature" from time to time and maybe grow from it. She's fucking 26 she doesn't have to have everything figured out. I don't know people, I personally see nothing wrong with them showing her vulnerable side. You like it or not that's part of her. As valid as those criticisms can be, no one would be completely sane with all the hate she got for the past few months to not say year. Idk, maybe it's just how I personally view human beings. We ain't perfect and we're not going to act rational all the time. I love it when people aren't scared to show their worst side (not in a criminal or unethical way tho)
@@meilichankan9282 not saying she shouldn’t cry . She has feelings ofc she gets hurt . I’m saying her company shouldn’t have included that in the documentary . It made things worse if you get me?
@@foivechanI mean that's how she truly felt, I genuinely don't see why they should hide it. The haters will hate no matter what, look at how she get even more hated after it. Idols are always forced to show their good side even in the worst moment. I'm someone who appreciate it when people show vulnerability or their "weak/bad " side. It's not like she's doing it on a daily basis. They can't always be cool or cute. They get mad, sad, tired, frustrated and act immature just like everyone else. I mean, I see what u mean but I'm holding on to my points. I'm sick and tired of idols acting like everything is always ok. I'm here for them, not their "good image"
@@foivechan If someone is being hated by kpop stans no matter what they do they gonna recieve hate even for breathing Kpop stans or toxic stans want idols perfect but they don't want them to have surgery and also they want idols to look like god or goddess and if they make mistake ofcourse they gonna make mistakes they are human after all The have to act like puppets If they resist or show little more emotions than they should be the response from netizens would be like "Oh acting weak again you are getting paid highly and getting fame stop acting like that for getting sympathy"
@@jangthapa5482 yes , K-pop Stans who are hating will keep on hating no matter what they do. No arguement on that . But continuously showing public crying or breakdown because of the hate is only going to fuel them When they get bored or feel ignored , some will move on to someone or something else
Doesn’t help that she is one of the few idols that chooses to complain instead of improve. Giselle, Shuhua, Onda, all got crucified. They woman-ed up and made the haters eat their words. Sakura just keeps putting more on their plates. Take a page from Ms. Dula Peep.
@@mammamia013 but those are talentless. Sakura is multi talented Actress, Model, Gamer, Crocheter, Comedian & Idol. Those u mentioned? None just basic idol.
@@demonslayer4951although she is multitalented, the point is that she isn’t doing her job properly. this is the same as a regular job, you can work at mcdonalds and be talented in everything that you’ve mentioned. yet you need to do your mcdonalds job properly and will be fired if you cannot. no one cares if you’re multitalented when it comes to your job, your job is your job. also do not dismiss idols for not being multitalented, thats just plain rude. i know youre a sakura or lsf defender but being multitalented doesnt make you a better idol. period.
@@demonslayer4951 Ever heard of “jack of all trades, master of none”? I’d rather be a “basic idol” that can actually do my job well than need to rely on fans to add “crocheter” to my resume. You think Tanjiro’s getting praise for his door fixing abilities? The man barely gets acknowledged as a demon slayer most of the time since he’s useless without the help of others.
Sakura truly need a reality check. Like I'm not hating on her but she is in the industry for like 10 years and still she is a weak singer. She should really work hard on her vocals then she is good to go. Her dancing and stage presence were already great. If she improve her vocal skills and bring back her confidence like leeseo then she is really great.
i say this as someone who has been there and not judgmentally but she seems like she would really benefit from an evidence based therapy for anxiety. like i say this cuz i feel her struggles and want her to thrive cuz agree there are improvements to be made but atp it seems like a mindset problem to address first and then she can shine 100% her brightest as an idol. i say this as someone who genuinely likes her i swear
At this point, I don't even think it's her vocal skill. It's her confidence, insecurity and anxiety she has to work on. People in her team need to step up and get to the root of problem. Maybe she is more capable than what is being shown but her insecurity and anxiety are keeping her back. The relentless hates, bullying, criticisms and her company and PR team fumbling so badly at handling them probably aren't helping her. Instead of filming that pity party of a documentary, the company should have focused more on helping her work on herself, giving the girls more time to rest and practice. Then, let them come back with a bang. Edit: Just to add, I'm not making excuses for her. I am not a fan of LSF, I don't know how they are or portray themselves as or how difficult their songs are or if their songs suit their vocals as I have only listened to cover versions of their songs. I just feel like the whole thing is getting bigger than it actually is because of all the outside factors that're occurring concurrently.
@@mahogara exactly before giving her vocal lessons she should work on her mental health first. And having a comeback right now isn't the best solution.
I think she might have a really high standard on herself and her not reaching that standard, which might honestly be beyond her skills, might be mentally draining and cause her to regress in her foundational skills. Or she just can't sing
It just confuses me because she was willing to take criticism for her lack of dance skills in PD 48 and IZONE and improved to dramatically since joining HYBE. But why can't she apply the same mindset to her vocals? Because it clearly shows she has the inital and potential to take criticism and improve. My theory is the when it comes to vocals, HYBE coddles the entire company. When it comes to dancing, they're very severe, strict and detail orientated. But when it comes to vocals its like they always make excuse and dont try to push their idols to improve. Like if anything, many idols under them have vocally regressed. They just accept that they're bad or unpolished and just leave it at that. That's why Sakura just thinks shes beyond saving. If they just stopped coddling her and everyone else vocally and were more stern with how they should sound, it would stop the stupid victim mentality and force them to grow. Remember how Yujin literally burst into tears back stage because she was half a second behind everyone else in the Fearless performance? They need that kind of perfectionism in their vocals. I think they see vocals as this optional thing that they dont really have to get good at and develop anxiety for
Frankly, i pity Sakura for her obvious anxiety about singing. But at the same time, i don't exactly feel bad for her situation. While i don't like the bullying she received, i can't help but understand the frustration people have with her. Sakura is an adult. She entered the kpop industry as an adult. She know the standard that was expected of her since her produce 48 days. And yet, she got to debut with so little skills. Yes she a good dancer and somewhat decent performer (she was better before, but because of her lack of confidence she got worse), but she an idol. Not a dancer. I don't expect her to sing Mariah carey notes. Heck i don't expect her to sing any hard song at all. But the fact she cant even sing 2 simple line of leesafarim simple discography without a panic attack is very concerning. And frustrating. In my eyes, she took away someone else place and chance to debut. I am not blaming her 100% since it hybe decision at the end of the day, but she also not a child in a desperate situation. But since she already in the group, i hope she improve and regain her confidence.
I completely agree with you. People are not expecting some Beyoncé type of performance, just the bare minimum of singing decently while dancing, even if it means sacrificing a bit the choreo to catch up the vocals. And a good example is IVE. It's obvious that they don't have the best vocal abilities while dancing BUT they have proven multiple times that they can sing while performing without sounding suffocated or terribly off key even if that means toning down the choreo when it's their time to sing, and people praise them for pushing their limits and improving their weaknesses every comeback, not for sounding perfect while dancing and moving (because they don't) The company needs to hire better mentors, because how tf is your response to the very valid criticism they got (not the hate) releasing a documentary on how bad you suffer because you can't do your job????
Legit feel like she got worse, She seem scared like hell on stage now, she did fine in izone and the 48 groups she shouldnt struggle like that with the few lines they give her, feel like she would do bad with her own lines from her previous group if required to perform them again
@@axelt6312 I feel like it’s truly because she knows there’s more demanded of her now that shes in lower numbered group, aka there’s no one to hide behind anymore.
also it feels like they took a spot in coachella. plenty of other girl groups with good live vocals and they chose le sserafim who barely could sing live?
Your video makes me love Wonyoung and Leeseo even more. Wonyoung got hates just by breathing, but she never complains/whines/cries. She continues behaving the same while silently working to improve her skills. Leeseo's improvement is also outstanding. I love that they don't try to gain pity.
That isn't a good thing, idols should 1000% be able to express their emotions. You guys are obsessed with them being perfect little toys who you get to do and say anything to and they have to take it and not show humanity. People cry, they get upset and sad and if you bothered to digest the docu, Sakura was mostly upset with herself and the "criticism" has long veered over into pure hatred so yes she should be able to talk about it instead of allowing losers to bully idols unchecked.
heavy on wonyoung because she was hated like crazy even during iz*one days and it got worst when she redebuted in ive. but she was/is nonchalant and continues improving herself silently to silence the haters. she truly is someone respectable.
@@dahliaj did we watch the same video or did you just come here to comment? sakura cried for the exact same reason she cried 2 years ago, meaning there was little to no improvement made in the span of 2 years. and source music shot her in the foot by including the clip of her crying over her lack of vocal skills. even IF wonyoung cried because of the hate, starship was smart to not film and air it because their PR team knows that it would be used against her/would worsen the hate towards her. please watch the video if you didn't. edit: didn't she also write that fuckass paragraph on weverse? i felt bad at first, but all that sympathy dissipated the moment i read that weverse post. she has no intentions of improving and continues making excuses for herself like "we tried our best" and "everyone has different standards".
I don't really remember Jyp giving Twice a documentary for their fanbase to see why happens behind the scenes. Like I'm pretty sure Momo has been deeply affected as well
@@dharling97 Momo is kinda of a intresting situation. She is the main dancer (and she excels at that) and support singer/rapper. If you look back at clips of 16, the reality show that formed twice, Momo's voice was not as high pich, witch leads a lot of people to beleive that she is being ask to sing a diffrent tone, than her natrual one and that is why she strugles so much.
@@dharling97and this is one other reasons her hate train died down, there was no material for the haters and since she's a rapper in a 9 member group it is easier for her
@@taylordesouza7 Yes, being in such a big group makes it easier to not having so much focus on her while she slowly improve. I also think Garam having to leave LeSserafim was very bad for the overall group. Garam was clearly one of the lead vocalists within the group and taking her out means the other had to step up quicker than they were ready for. Because lets be real, with how quick kpopies disregard "older" idols, Sakura didn't have that long. If Garam was still there, Sakura could have comfortably improved in the background just like Momo. But yeah, 100% Jyp is having Momo sing in a different voice. Like I'm not an overall fan of Alcohol Free, however Momo sings so differently, I have a suspicion that it's her normal singing voice, and it's probably my all time favorite lines of her. She sounded SOOOO good!!!
Sakura has been in the industry for a very long time and the fact that her vocal abilities are behind her juniors is disappointing. Not only is her company babying her but I think they lack to discipline her. Telling her she’s giving “120%” when she clearly not is not going to help her or her singing career. She needs to take a step back and double down on her vocal lessons. On top of that I feel like source music fails to give the girls lines that are in their vocal ranges. The pity parties with the lack of effort is weighing down her and the group image. I feel like the whole group needs to take a step back and regroup because they’re only damaging their image and the fact that source music is letting this happen is beyond me
AESPA and IVE have done exactly what LESSERAFIM should do 😭 For one Aespa has been dragged through the dirt back in 2021 for having little to no stage presence and synchronization and their response was incredible they improved so much you can’t even tell it’s the same group Same with Ive and their live singing Sakura needs to grow tf up she’s been in the music industry for 13 years that’s the same/close age to some idols currently who beat her skill wise in everything any normal Grown women would get fired instantly for not doing her job well aswell as refusing to improve on it
@@ghkdwls360 thats why im asking right? OP saying sakura idol for 13yrs so u know how training system in jpop. even in izone she didnt have proper training not saying sakura is good singer but lets be real she is not main vocalist. yes she need improvement but wat do u expect she is not excelent singer she a great performer compare to what she is on izone.
like kpop is not about vocal only. dance fanservice contents etc. like if we are being real if kpop stans really care about vocal then why not just stan a vocal group? anyone have different preference they like. kpop is not that deep like the group that u like if u dont like why hate and have a energy to check a group u didnt like in first place. critism is fine but harrasment is not.
Sakura has failed to see the privileged position she’s in that she has seemingly stopped trying to improve her craft. Her vocals have not improved as much as it should for a person 6 years into her K-Pop career. Mark Lee is a great example of basically starting from zero and working hard to improve your craft. Nobody is asking Sakura to be Mariah Carey but the level of vocals she’s displayed is below the standard for a person in her position. At the end of the day however, most of the blame should fall on the company for failing to prepare these girls.
No she is part of the blame too, bts members took vocal lessons whenever needed because they left like they lacked, seungmin from skz is also someone who takes vocal lessons in his free time... So yes sakura takes part of the blame too..
@@brianlittrell797 I think it’s that or she regressed with it being called ‘improvement’. Her voice is now audible but she sounded more pleasant in her IZ*ONE days even with her pitch issues and with how it sounded like she was almost always whispering.
@@yassin9782 Singing incorrectly can damage the vocal cords and I suspect Sakura has never had proper vocal training. Let's hope it isn't permanent, but HYBE isn't going to help her properly so it is up to her.
At this point I bet Garam and the girl who was switched out last second kinda feel like they dodged a bullet. Source and Sakura are dragging the group down by refusing to change how they're handling this. Edit: This is by no means saying that Garam should have been kicked from the group but looking at how many "scandals" the groul has been caught in recently well...
@@fearnot_jeansThat’s because she has stayed silent in all of this. You can also see some improvement in her skills, as minor as they are. Her outstanding dancing skills also shield Kazuha. K-pop fans are more tolerant of dancers because they still contribute to the group instead of dragging it down.
@@quoriquora5327 No one is talking about Kazuha cause she isn't even problematic and has done nothing wrong. And also people acknowledge she had always wanted to be a trainee but Hybe put her in the debut team
Thank you for the video! I totally agree as a wizone since pd48 era. I think sakura is used to getting ahead without much talent. I know shes very charismatic but even in pd48 she got all opportunities even though she was one of the weakest talent wise. I truly believe if she takes it to heart she can truly start again vocal wise and really TRY
I wanna highly the getting used to getting ahead without much talent part cus I been saying this Izone set her up for failure cus the bigger the group is, the less likely the members lacking tend to improve. Sakura is an example of this.
the thing is sakura needs to improve her vocals. but at the end of the day, with the amount of hate she is receiving about it, it will get frustrating. She probably felt as though no matter how much she tries she'll probably still get bashed on, and anyone would have cried in her position
But the lack of improvement either shows she doesn't care about her job as a singer, but the love, praise, and money she gets from it, or that she's a lost case. These are deal-breakers in the music industry, and her stubbornness to improve or step down to focus on doing what she's good at( an influencer who connects really well with her audience) makes her look incredibly inconsiderate of her fans and teammates. Lesserafim has 5 members, they can't have the most experienced idol be the one who constantly embarrasses herself and her team both in performance and response to criticism. Her fans also want to hear her sing in the tracks. They deserve her very best performances because all they have been giving her is unconditional love and support, despite her very evident flaws.
Yeah I’ve noticed Sakura is more sensitive and that’s ok. Some people are different not everyone is going to be able to handle the hate. She is clearly overwhelmed by such a huge amount of hatred.
@@beinji4885 You're falling for the PR stunt. If she is complaining about the same thing she complained about 2 years ago and didn't show any improvement, is she really bettering herself? Trying gets you nowhere if you're not going to the source of the problem and that is what she needs. A vocal coach that is clear in wanting to help her improve and tell her what are the issues and where to change, not someone to pat her head because she started crying. She needs to check her mental health and change her mindset and get back in the studio.
disclaimer - I LIKE LE SSERAFIM OVERALL despite my critiques but i am WORRIED about the girls' level of emotional maturity. some of these conversations are almost childlike and it's scary to me. NOT HATE, btw. btw this is NOT about them showing emotion - that is good. it's the way things are discussed
i mean a lot of idols probably act worse, it's probably behind closed doors though. most of the idols nowadays go into training in their early teenage years so it wouldn't surprise me if they developed with home school kid levels of maturity.
Sakura could show her struggling but also improving after accepting the criticism. Doing pity party is only going to make haters feel more powerful and happy. It will make them feel like they have control and that their hate is working. Not saying that idols cant cry, they can but not to a group of haters who are waiting to prey upon you. Im sure leeseo might have bementally and emotionally affected by the hate she got, but she slapped back to haters by not feeding into it and proving them wrong. Same with wonyoung. She never ever feeds her haters. Instead she acts unbothered in front of camera which riles up the haters cause they know that their hate is not getting to her. Source music is also at fault for uploading this doc without realizing the internet culture especially the kpop stans.
We tend to forget one thing as fans. The documentary of Lesserafim proved again that not only haters caused the girlies to be in this state. SOME Fearnots kept comparing them with their colleagues like IVE, NMIXX... etc. calling them untalented and bullying other fandoms which means every other fandom were actually waiting for the things they said like "Yunjin clears all your Vocalist" or "Sakura is good for someone coming out from Japan/J-Pop" and once all of that bragging wasn't real, it backfired. It's true that in 2022, Lesserafim were part of the few girl grouo that sang live, but their vocals never were on point, but Fearnots and hybe kept pushing them. Yunjin's words saying she wanted to change the industry were twisted by her own fans and even her talent (she's not an opera singer). They kept saying she would or she is when, in fact, she just began. How can she when her "family" is not letting her the time to and are already shoving her name in every people's mouth. Like the : "At Lesserafim can sing live". It clearly came back to them cause every other girl group actually sang live better than them : Ive at Lollapalooza, for example. And Lesserafim played the victim cards with apology and middle finger on stories cause they know how dumb fans are and it's not first time that everytime Lesserafim are in a controversy, fans defend them and five days later, Lesserafim use the same made up excuse to base on and say "do not judge" when their actions are more than simply problematic. They just don't care. And they learned how to not care. Hybe is to blame even more. Those girls are/were not good mentally even though Hybe and their fans claim that they have a therapist and psychologist on site. They used their pain as content for pity even though it looks like those girls are showing signs of imposter syndrome feeling ungrateful and unworthy. Hybe is acting all nice by saying "you can stop if you're tired, don't push yourself" when in fact, those girls spent years with Hybe toxic management so it's not in their genes anymore to sop when they are tired. Those girls starved themselves too under Hybe's management. They clearly were made to not say no or not or feel like a disappointment. Hybe debuted those girls only with 4 months of training as a group, when usually groups take 2 years to train and figure out what sound is best for them. It's good we share a light on haters cause some of them really want to end Lesserafim, but at the end of the day, Hybe and Fearnots have more influence on those girls than anyone else. They are the one who make think Eunchae will be ugly in a few years, not the contrary. The documentary was a media play, and the excuse they had was the previous documentary they made for antifragile. But where was the red line ? What did we learn about the documentary? Where were Kazuha and Chaewon in the documentary? What makes them different from other idols ? Cause we literally learned nothing from it, and Lesserafim will be the first victim and first one to suffer the hate train.
What a well done summarize what i've been thinking too.. especially when you're their fans, you know more about them... I'm seeing from the perspective of casual listener, how source and hybe trying to solve all these really bad.. Yes they should sue for the people who throw threats here and there.. but if these about your main job as a singer to sing, i think you should just man up and say sorry for the mistake then trying hard to improve... Why shoving a pity party like these that can be weaponize by haters.. This is actually the true words "do not babying your idol", this one when they make mistake, they should've solved it, not excuse them... It will be hard for the people who support and love them, constantly getting mocked and harass. And what if there's more problem in the future, are they going to use the same method? 😂.. Especially to sakura, she's the oldest and have more experience, these thing will be brought up if she's not improving.. if she said already worked hard 110% then work more until 200%... Btw I hope you have a great day and this controversy will finally being resolved...
Sakura signed with Hybe even before Gfriend was disbanded, they trained for more than 4 months maybe they trained 4 months with SoMu but that group was under making for at least a year before their debut.
@@belaytriks The point is that as a group they barely trained together. Garam here first (maybe as an OG somu trainee). S and C joined in August 2021, same with yunjin. Ok that’s almost a year but the rest ? Kazuha came in DECEMBER 2021 IN SS and Eunchae shortly after her so December/January. They debuted in may 2022 and a debut doesn’t happen in 2 months + They were already preparing their debut song (so not trainee anymore but in the final debut line up) when the last two joined. = less than 4 months as actual trainees all together. Compare it with let’s say IVE W and Y went back to Starship in march 2021 and those two, unlike Sakura and chaewon, have been together since pre IZ*ONE (2017). Rei and Liz were already used to each other as trainee since 2019 along with leeseo (2019) and gaeul trained with W and Y for a while (2017). All already signed under the same company way before IVE debuted + those 4 were pre picked for when W and Y would come back so they could start directly. They weren’t added in from a different company 3 months before preparing for their debut. Does that make sense? Lmaooo I feel like it’s confusing
@@リリ-p4vIt makes so much sense and personally i even think the lineup was made and trained way before March 2021 when the members weren't doing public activities especially with the COVID 19 and Izone Break.
@@リリ-p4v I get it but it is irrelevant. It does not matter if they had zero training time together before starting to work together because that excuse is used to justify their lack of skills. They were suppoused to have already the skills so that is wht they were choiced to debut and here they have to make the group work because the moment they are choosen they become "professional" and it is part of their job to make it work.
i completely agree. tbh it's kinda sad to see fans be like "look what you've done", etc, even though clearly the documentary was a tactic to make everyone feel bad, while avoidind fixing the problem. and everyone is falling for it, apologizing to lessera and blaming everyone who said atleast one word of criticism. i wouldn't be surprised if the hate and criticism come back the next comeback if lesserafim dont change and improve in the places they lack.
At this point, hybe is taking advantage of the situation. Idols getting hate creates loyal sympathetic fans who will support and defend their idols no matter what. Sakura and hybe are using the hate to feed the sympathy of her loyal simps and continue worshipping her.
They are doing the same thing it happened to BTS and think this will work on every single group. However, it just creates a toxic environment where the companies can get away with spending as less money possible training them and have a fanbase to defend their idols.
Sakura isn't capable of a huge improvement anymore. I think having skipped all opportunities to improve while her vocal chords were still in development, now in her mid-twenties, she has hit her ceiling as a singer. This sounds a bit like I'm hating on her for being talentless, or the opposite, that I'm making up excuses for her. But I've seen countless of J-idols who debuted basically tone deaf and having no control over their vocals at the age of 13, and all they could do by 25 is hit notes and be somewhat stable live. I guess a good technique can still be learnt, and I believe she can become a bit more stable live as long as she sings in her range. I just hope fans see this realistically and don't except her to start belting out notes, because that's never gonna happen. For her, hitting notes and being stable is the goal.
That isn’t based in an scientific truth whatsoever. Learning to sing in her 20’s would be easier than for those 13 year olds, cause when you’re that young your voice hasn’t developed yet. All little kids voices are the same, ie. kids don’t have much range in the capability of their voices. Those 13 year old j-idols being bad singers at 25 has nothing to do with age and everything to do with improper technique and lack of proper training. Sakura, with a good teacher, could easily learn to belt like one of the best.
@@lovelypanda8676 Not a hater but I think she reached her limits on vocals and she knows it, she kept crying because she knows she can’t offer much in vocal skills. In this documentary she kept saying, “I will become better, I want to be the best” but in reality she is facing a wall which is the absence of talent.
@@nataliacaminda8013I'd say Sakura reached her limit in that she can no longer skirt by on just charisma and personality alone anymore. She needs to develop her skills. Dancing, especially in kpop you can brute force your way into improving quickly. But singing is a whole different ballpark ESPECIALLY if u are tone deaf or not a good singer starting out. And based on the clip with her vocal coach, it doesn't seem like she is getting effective proper training either. I can see her being frustrated with the lack of/slow improvement in that case. But improving on vocals takes time. It's a slow process but with proper training she can succeed. It's all about investing in the long haul and good technique.
If Sakura genuinely had a medical reason for why she can't sing like vocal nodules, do you not think that she and Hybe would have mentioned it a hundred times in the documentary to garner more sympathy? Let's be honest with ourselves. She can't sing. She has no vocal foundation for it, and Hybe seemingly has no intention of building it.
She doesn't even know what brighter tone means. The trainer is either doing half-heartedly, or she is just pure unprofessional. Sakura is literally gaslighted.
This is legit one of the biggests issue for Kpop groups like Le Sserafim. They only have two compatent vocalists and only one of them has proper pop training. Thus those two members are forced to carry the burden of all of the tough lines. That's why it is unsurpising that Le Sserafim strugggled so much at Coachella. Yunjin and Chaewon are forced to make up for the others shortcomings. They are also the best performers of the group and get a lot of dance and center time. The songs were designed to be sung by 5/6 members, yet two members are forced to sing and dance the entire song with no vocal reprive or support. Under that condition I'm surprised Coachella wasn't worse.
It’s just crazy how she was even picked to be in the group with such little talent and lack of singing. Her face and popularity got her in and it just shows how unfair life can be. There’s numerous trainees who should’ve been in her place
THIS IS WHY I LOVE EVERGLOW she's not afraid to critics an idols but she doesn't in way that is generally trying to help the idol and giving cronstructive critism rather the personally attacking them in a childish way. AND SHE USED AN EXAMPLE Leeseo some with only 3 in the indstury comparied to sakura who has had 13 understood what needed to be don't and delt with it in the best way possible. SAKURA NEEDS A REALITY CHECK SERIOUSLY
But still, challenge what you believe If we view it in different angle, it might have been the timing SouMu did, which is not the best move. BUT if this keeps going and it still shows, well it’s safe to say that she really need some introspection(and it’s better to do it early as possible). At the end, it’s all on Sakura beyond the company profiting the situation(that made it worse).
Last year I followed a 6 months course for performers, there was this one girl who was terrible at singing! (She was mainly a dancer) She lacked all the basics and had some really bad habits; at first when people told her she couldn’t sing like that she went to the defensive, but with time she started accepting what people kept on telling her and by the end of the 6 months the improvement was UNBELIEVABLE. She did not become Beyoncé but she got everything down and was able to pull off such an amazing performance!! The moral of the story is: Somebody get this girl and ACTUAL vocal teacher and you’ll see what she can do. As basic and banal as that may be.
As someone who has both self-taught themselves and have worked with voice coaches, I feel that my opinion may help with some of the criticisms about Sakura's vocals. First off, yes, it is quite possible that a person who has been in the idol industry for 10 years can have less than impressive vocals. To tell you the truth, these companies that are meant to push out these amazing trainees who are well-versed in entertainment don't do a good job of it. This issue was especially prevalent in the older generations of nugu kpop groups. In the vocal training technicalities especially, their methods differ from company to company, and are inconsistent between different vocal coaches. Sakura, as well as a whole other handful of idols before 3rd gen, are a result of these inconsistencies. These people are NOT vocally trained optimally. In Sakura's case, I can tell that she has 0 understanding of how to project and sustain a note, which is a telltale sign of vocal coaches not teaching a student about the mechanisms of the oral cavity. These idols are MADE and COERCED to sound a certain way, leaving their natural vocal tones unexplored, and the student simply mimicking the sounds a vocal coach wants them to make. Now, for a lot of people who have a talent for the art of singing, they do not need such a deep background in vocalization, but in Sakura's case, she unfortunately does not have that. While we may not be sure that all people can learn how to sing, what we DO know is that some have a leg up than others. SM ent. is the best at vocal teaching by a humongous mile, meaning that, in my opinion, other companies have a devastatingly terrible model for vocal teaching (instead, they simply let trainees who are already self-taught have a higher chance to debut instead). It is also important to note that in those 10 years that Sakura had, only the tail-end of that timeline was when people started expecting her to sound as good as her younger peers. It is wholly possible that a vocal coach wasn't always present to consistently work together with her on her voice until now. The Leeseo comparison only proves that the vocal training in the newer generations have improved over time. Second, while it is true that Sakura needs improvement in her vocals, it shouldn't be the end all be all of her career as an idol. The job of a kpop idol is multifaceted. While a lot of newgens expect all idols to be aces, that expectation is unrealistic. Some idols are better at specific jobs, and that should be respected. It's why positions exist. It's clear that Sakura worked most on her dancing skills, which implies that it is something she wants to hone to make up for her weaknesses as a vocalist. I've seen a lot of "A kpop idol who can't sing??? Well, what about a chef who can't cook!", and I fervently disagree with the analogy and others like it, because again, the job of an idol is varied. Up until now, it was widely accepted that an idol need not be a jack of all trades and I'm not quite sure what made the public think otherwise so quickly. Third, let the girl cry. She's a human being with the capacity to not be good at things. She's allowed to be frustrated when she can't quite understand something that others understand naturally. She's allowed to be frustrated that she wasn't born with a talent that others want her to have. Do I think the documentary is manipulative for showing scenes of her crying? Yes. Do we then get to downplay what she's feeling? No.
She's been an idol for 14 years. Going back 10 takes her to when she joined AKB48, prior to that she was a part of HKT48, which she joined in 2011. The Japanese idol setup is markedly different than the Korean setup. In particular, they do not focus on or emphasize singing. Their primary concept is "Idols you can meet", they emphasize image, attractiveness, and personality. The training between the two types is markedly different, as are the expectations of their fans. Saying Sakura has been an idol for 10 years is technically correct, but it ignores the differences between the two philosophies behind them.
i need more people to think about ur second point like why are people so adamant about forcing a position on a member who very obviously does not specialize in that area 😭
I dont follow the behind-the-scenes of kpop too closely, so it's nice to see this conversation framed against other examples like illit and ive that I otherwise wouldn't've known about. It's helpful to see examples of what improvement in this area looks like, and what kind of output people might've been expecting from Sakura. This is probably the clearest and most substantial way I've seen this end of the argument presented, so good job!
sometimes I think that somu is lesserafim's biggest hater... like why would they make so much bad decisions and throw those girls under the bus?? It doesn't make sense to me at all
They probably want a hate train and more attention, the more haters you are, the more you get talked about. But the thing is, their hate is mixed with criticism and instead of making them get more attention, the fans will get tired of seeing no improvement and defending them from the truth, making them less popular and lose followers instead of gaining
I'm just going to vent, so, I apologise already. One thing that particularly pisses me off about defensive fans is the way they act like this isn't their job. Being an idol is their JOB! Anyone else, if they had this attitude in their job, they would have been fired long ago! Hell, even in school or college, you don't pass or are granted awards if you don't put effort and work into what you're doing. If I slack off on my studies and do a poor performance, guess who's going to be failing and needing to repeat the class? We accept this for every job, but when it comes to idols, I feel like people forget that this is their job. Their job is to be a singer, a dancer and a performer. They don't have to excel in everything, HELL, they don't have to be good, but they have to be enjoyable. They have to show work ethic and willingness to improve. And don't talk about anxiety, because, although I understand that it can be crippling (been there and still am sometimes), it's no excuse for you to slack off in your job. It's your responsibility to search for help and to set yourself for success. It's what every person who isn't a celebrity has to do to be able to go through life. Other people don't have to coddle you because of your anxiety. Of course, your friends and family should be helpful, but, at the end of the day, it's your responsibility to manage it and to be able to fulfil your role. Your colleagues, your employer and, in this case, your fans, should not have to coddle you.
leeseo is way younger than sakura and she just fixed whatever was being criticized about her while older woman with years of singing career is still crying and not giving any improvement im honestly still waiting for sakuras rise i hope she finally acknowledges the problem instead of crying shes a grown ahh woman
She did improve, she is not the most consistent because her main problem is nerves. An amazing singer is still going to sound bad if they're nervous confidence is half the battle, she never made excuses for herself she just cried because she's upset WITH herself. You are delulu if you think your favs havent.
Love your mention of Eunchae's stans as one of the sources of hatred towards Leeseo. As both a DIVE and a FEARNOT, this origin of hate towards her is ridiculous and irrational.
💀 ima need to y’all to actually think for sec I’m not going to say eunchae Stan’s aren’t completely free because some of them were hating but most of it was the kpop community who were hating on lesso mys,bunnies,stays,fearnots,etc and more groups fans were using eunchae to make lesso seem bad and people were liking eunchae at the time becuase she was refreshing for the kpop community I’ve was the most hated group in 2022 in my opinion kpop Stan’s never take accountability for hating or had any consequence and blame a specific fandom when in reality it was a everyone as whole joining in one ex recently is suga y’all will go with hating on someone if someone starts to hate on them kpop Stan’s can’t actually thing for themselves there like sheep’s following what else do
Can I ask what you are studying cause you are so wise, how you deliver your sentences or how you make people understand you with your words its justttt wow I am always in awe and i learn a lot from you
No offense I would say she’s isn’t wise more logical and can form her own opinions based on common sense but it becuase most of kpop fans aren’t the smartest people in the world by the way the act in person online
21:06 100% agree with this, she doesnt need someone like the current vocal coach to coddle her, frankly their vocal coach is the only one ive seen amongst other hybe documentaries who is like this. pop star academy for example, their coaches tell them exactly what and how to improve it. sakura needs basic vocal training, and it's honestly confusing as to why she isnt improving because we know how hard working this girl is.
who in the fuck in that company told bangpd that empathy fishing would work? like no, posting your idol's vulnerable moments won't bury the fact that they can't sing especially Sakura. BE FR SHE'S BEEN AN IDOL FOR YEARS. and if you're gonna use the "But Japanese idols have different range" bullshit, she already debuted as a kpop idol. and for some reason Chaewon downgraded ever since I*zone's debut. and instead of actually training the girls, they're just like "Hey, the girls are crying stop bullying haha". did anyone in that goddamn company stops the meeting and says "I don't think that's gonna work"???? it's like they just wanna stop the bullying and release a new song already. this company lost its grace. before they perfect their craft but now it's turning to a shit show
The Japanese idol thing falls very flat when you realize that there are groups like XG that exist also groups from avex in general that argument mostly apply to groups from Johnnie's, if not most jpop groups can actually sing decently well.
@@Correctgistlover and Sakura's range after iz*one isn't even that deep compared to her range during iz*one. so idk why fearnots use it as an excuse. and if she's "forced" to sing in a higher range in Japan, wouldn't that make her good at adjusting her voice when singing?
I really hate how source music and Sakura are trying to diminish the hatred. “So you don't sing? we will give you less lines so that people will have less to complain about”.
it always amazes me how these problems and solutions/improvements seem so obvious to everyone except companies, artists, and ofc (toxic) overly biased fans, and no one is batting an eye to handle this situation correctly and fix the actual problems.
I can't think of the Kdrama title but there was a show that centered around the importance of PR teams in k entertainment, showcasing EVERY POINT YOU expertly hit! How PR TEAMS ARE WHAT REALLY BREAK OR MAKE A PERSON IN THE K-IDOL SCENE sorry not sorry it's not about talent but OBJECTIVE VEIW "it doesn't matter what the truth is it's more important how it's presented to us the removed party who take in ALL info about that idol and what she has SHOWN while ignoring criticism is WHY she NOW get's hate for what she can't do. Great vid, great examples and GREAT SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO🗣
@@NeelBiswas-rv9dv So do the fans who are filled with negativity and hate and are attacking idols and people and calling it positive criticism. HYBE needs a reality check too.
@@beinji4885 That's a part of it, and also being negative towards others helps them to feel better because they are in pain. They'll just never admit that they are. They might not even be consciously aware they are.
Ok I think your problem is you're blaming sakura when the actual responsable about her singing issues is her company, I believe sakura is a hard worker who is trying to improve but she's not being given the actual tools for achieving that goal, like what are those classes she's receiving for vocal coaching in the doc? no actual vocal training, no actual excercises that could actually help her, no technique, I don't think it¿s her being "unprofessional" I think she is professional but her company is ruining her career and instead of teaching her they did the whole pity party but I don't think that's her fault...
As someone who has had vocal lessons for 1.5 years and still suck at singing i can confidently say some people just cant get better at vocals no matter how much they practice. I mean i did get better but i still dont sound as good as ACTUAL vocalists. Maybe Sakura is like this idk...
But ... Didn't she already acknowledge her anxiety with singing during debut with lesserafim? Before the popularity sky rocketed. So I don't think it's right to say her anxiety started because of her "charms" not working anymore. It started because she recognized her flaws that the audience kept pointing out and realized no matter how much hard work she put in she cannot change that one aspect of herself. You believe she is pitying herself instead of trying her actual best to improve. I believe she tried her level best and the lack of acceptable improvement gave rise to anxiety which then led to the pity party. Not everyone can be wonyoung level of disinterested or unaffected with criticisms. Some are just ... Weaker. Food for bullies and critics' who believe in chewing out their lack of strength instead of empathising with their clear efforts. But then it's an entertainment industry and a cruel world. So I see why you would feel it's delusional to believe she can survive with the way she is. I am just going to believe that hard work does count for something ... Even if it won't make her sing like the experienced skilled singer everyone wants her to be, I wish that hard work will give her something to hold onto when the criticisms start making her hurt.
@@kurokurt5477 Yup. I think it's the classic case of suffering setbacks too many times that now the mere idea of trying at all pushes all her anxiety into overdrive.
Girl finally someone who see it the way I see it. I genuinely think she giving her all but people don't make the same progress. She has her own pace. I also don't see anything wrong with how she's handling the situation. We are not all mentally strong. I personally related a lot with her. All my life people (family, friends etc) have only pointed out my lack of skills/talent and I'm aware of it. So whenever I make mistakes, I hate myself even more for not even doing simple right. That's why I begin to give up pretty easily on things even if I like it. It's one of the reasons why I genuinely admire her. She knows she's not as talented as other idols but she still fighting for it. And those few times were she shows her weakness just makes me respect her even more. She's not hiding how all the criticisms affect her but at the end of it she's still standing. Maybe not in a cool way like people want her to be but in her own way
Yes, I agree with you. I think what Hybe should do now is that instead of giving her vocal lessions, they should make her go on hiatus, give her therapy sessions and the time to overcome her anxiety. As long she doesn't overcome her anxiety about singing, she won't be able to improve.
@@meilichankan9282 You get it. Thank you god someone gets it. It hurts a lot when you do make the effort but the lack of what others call acceptable skills makes people say stuff that just concludes that you never tried enough. She isn't whining complaining or victimising. She is just stating that she tried hard. As hard as she could.
I read a comment from one of AKB's performances in Korea that a member of AKB told Sakura to practice dancing, and they said she acted like she was bullied. She was only told to practice. 😅 Idk AKB lore, but that comment is something. 😅
PEOPLE She is not blaming Sakura for crying or feeling down for the massive hate she is receiving (Let's be honest some people are hating on her but using the "I'm criticizing" card) Everglow-up is criticizing the company for their lack of awareness, they should now that this just comes as pitiful, and the least you want to feel about someone you should "admire" like a celebrity is pity, sympathy is not the same as pity.
@@JonathanDGoff I did noticed it some parts while she’s also criticizing the company. It came of as mixed opinion but Cheryl was trying her best to deliver it strongly because both need to be acknowledge. At the end, time will reveal things but for now, it’s where she stands.
I think age also plays into sakuras “I’m just a girl” persona. Because before she really was just a girl, now she is an adult. As much as we play around with that phrase at the end of the day we all still know we are adults with responsibilities. However, it seems that she uses that as an excuse. She also failed to grow along with her audience. While that her older audience might still see her as just a girl, her new audience is her age or younger. They now think why can’t she grow and change while I’m here doing it all for free.
Love the PR breakdown, but especially love how you mentioned "Haters bully idols fully aware that it is actually affecting them. It's the reason they do it". The entirety of kpop fandoms are built around this notion irrespective of the group they support. Insane to me how most of these people intentionally want to mentally harm idols then cry for them when something extreme happens. The reason why I wish all kpop idols had more of that "How I am and what I do in my personal life does not concern you" type pf attitude.
Idk i feel like sakura really is trying but is genuinely scared, ive heard her sing well before she js isnt confident. Yes, she should get threapy, vocal classes and all that but i dont feel like SAKURA herself wants attention or an excuse to have bad vocals its the company, bc kpop idols are ALWAYS on camera, this is proof😭😭
I just found your channel after a while. And I'd like to comment on their recent comeback, the difference between their choreography and their singing style on this EP is clear (apart from Yunjin and Chaewon, the rest of the members talk in a vocalized way that doesn't give them much room to go out of tune and they've decreased the intensity of the choreography when a member is singing and they're using lip sync more), the hate whether they like it or not has brought improvements to the group as a whole. I don't find Eunchae and Kazuha's tone pretty and I don't like this new style of music either, but you can't deny that the negative feedback has made the group a lot better. If the comeback hadn't included that documentary, the reception would have been even more positive than it was for IVE.
Thankyou because after seeing her cry in every episode it got tired very quick. Sakura needs improvement, not pity from fans/haters. It's the only way to solve this and I have no idea why Hybe is seemingly coddling her because in the long run it is only going to hurt her even more.
Honestly, I feel like sometimes we are a little too harsh on the female idols. Please don’t get me wrong I know that the K-pop companies are shitty at times but K-pop fans need to relax. Now , I’ll talk about my point of view of the drama. 1. Source Music is really bad at marketing. I can totally understand that they were trying to silence the hate but the problem is that they did not release the documentary at the right time 2. Like I said it many times K-pop fans need to understand that the k-pop stars that we are following are humans not magical beings or angels so the community need to relax and to let the idols better themselves by giving actual criticism not hate 3. I watched the documentary and I know that the girls work hard and I am also aware that the documentary was filmed before Coachella but to the fearnots please hear me out, this was a really bad PR move on Somu behalf because Sakura was already getting attacked and drag from all the corners of the internet so instead of putting out this documentary Source music should have train the members and then let the public see that they improved. 4. Sakura is definitely allowed to cry because she is a human being but her fans need to recognize that she not on the same level than us and should I care about the actual criticism not the hate to better herself. 5. I have a deep problem with the documentary. I feel like the vocal is not doing her job . Because as a vocal coach her task is to deliver constructive criticism and point out the things that the girls are doing wrong where it comes to their technique and she was just praising them without never letting them know where they lacks. Hybe need to hire better vocal coaches for their artists. 5. I think that Hybe labels need to train their idols better to avoid these hate trains. 6. At the end of the day, I think that K-pop fans need to relax and to become more mature especially when it comes to the way that they deliver criticism because I know that some of you that will come as obvious but if you are saying like “ x idol is useless “ , “ x idol need to leave the industry “or “ x idol is a dozen “ it’s not criticism . It’s baseless comments and it’s hateful and even if I’m not a fearnot , when I am researching some K-pop videos to watch on UA-cam I often come across people saying those kind of things when it comes to Sakura and I think that you will agree with me if I say that it’s not criticism. Anyways sorry for the long comment. But I needed to express my opinion on this.
Unlike Sakura, no male idol worked in the same field for years. Many male idols are not really good singers. However, they may sing like sub vocals. I believe that some footage, such as those shot within buildings and recordings, are after coachella hate. It is not as if Sakura can not cry like a normal person; that is not the point. People have witnessed her cry for bad vocals since producer 48 to now.
@@Asdfghjjjki mean she was on a dam survival show when dose someone not cry honestly it been months of so called critism becuase a lot you guys in this comment section we’re probably also staight harassing insead of actucally giving her vaild criticism lesserafim recently had a performace were they improve a lot and not one talks about instead about a topic that should have talked about a long time ago but it seems to me y’all can’t learn to ignore something that makes you straight up mad it really not that hard to ignore now I’m not saying criticism is bad but we’re almost already I. September and you guys are still talking about this
@@KyliePaz-f8s why are overreacting?? did you find me hating or har0ssing her anywhere?? Even here, did I say anything bad about her? Just watch that show ,nobody would ever think she was an idol for years at that time. Her singing is bad in producer 48. Its not about crying. its about crying for same reason for yrs instead of improving. Forget about that show Even she sobbed at the lesserfim show a few yrs ago for same singing reason, many people pitied her. did she improved after that show??no. here we go again. Even now where did she improved?? kazuha improved. sakura still singing same.
I remember during LSRFM's debut period people were whining about Sakura not getting enough lines, but from a producer point of view, i understand it, how are you going to give parts to someone who can't sing them? In their songs where she has 'a lot of lines', those lines just end up repeating over and over, so, no increase in singing difficulty.
How ironic that a group who sings of being anti fragile are so easily breaking when criticism regarding their talent (or lack thereof) has them react via video instead of hard work proving us wrong? Seems like they don’t even follow their own group’s theme.
most of these idols don't live up to the images they show, just like with itzy who had a self love concept and yet they cry when they receive hate and get plastic surgery, majority of idols are pretending to be someone they're not
I agree the editing has the intention of us feeling bad about her but I think it's pretty obvious that this is a part two of a series of documentaries they planned already. We will probably have another one in two years so I wouldn't say this was planned specifically to address the hate train. I still like Sakura and I know she's not the most skilled singer but we all have the right to choose who we like. I don't care about her company at all because they're disgusting as most (if not all) companies but I do like her. Edit: even tho I like her, I know she has much room to improve, one thing doesn't deny the other!
Lowkey i don't get it why sakura never ask wonyoung how to deal with hate train, etc. I mean they know each other, well obviously we don't know their interaction behind the scene but like come on, just use wonyoung's method. If sakura never ask wonyoung, well at least she can see a lots of wonyoung's mindset or words on the social media, it's not that hard especially when wonyoung is very easy to get viral
@@AUGHHHHHBBG yeah i know that's why i said that why sakura didn't look from the social media like tiktoks or twitter. There are lots of viral videos, tweets about wonyoung's mindset. I'm not talking about wonyoungism cause it's fanmade, but words that actually really came from wonyoung. I'm not asking her to follow wonyoung's mindset fully 100% but at least maybe grab something from it? A small piece is fine you know. I just want her to at least able to survive her hate trains and show to the haters they are wrong
@@JonathanDGoff wtf are you saying? This is kpop industry, kpop industry always have been disgusting, no one will see idol as human. Being the "perfect idol" maybe not the best way but at the same time it could be the best way. Look at sakura now, her trying to "show her human side" is backfired at her and now people calling her weak, ungrateful, princess disease, etc. Meanwhile other idols who has the same method as wonyoung's "perfect idol" able to survived. And funny how i already said that sakura doesn't need to follow wonyoung 100%, just a small tiny bit is fine and somehow you can't read that. What sakura need is just stay silent and just focusing on improving her vocal just like wonyoung.
It’s never too late to improve. Sakura could put some time to the side to improve on her vocals with HONEST vocal coaches who won’t succumb to her charms, show vulnerability in private, and become resilient like her peers. I had to learn that in college, and I’m still learning that right now. I remember that I was the worst painter in my art department and I cried for showing poor results like Sakura did. After I graduated, I practiced on my painting and drawing skills and not only I was satisfied with my end result, but everyone else was too. The point of constructive criticism is the for the mentioned person to do better to satisfy their audiences and themselves. It’s not easy, but as an idol- you have to give the people what they want so they can stay tuned with your music and your career. If Sakura can succeed like she did in her previous groups, then she can in this one IF she wants to see the results and to be up there with her contemporaries. Lovely video!
@@jamarcuscoley This! I recently graduated and was an art student, too, and my teacher emphasized a lot on drawing. She told us to practice every day. Our art teacher was tough on us because she wanted us to succeed. Hybe and the coach are extremely gaslighting her to the point that she is blaming herself. I doubt if it's an actual coach cause she didn't teach Sakura at all and was belittling her about confident issues.
@@Yo99753 I had the most toxic art teacher ever… she never had faith in me and always picked on me for being a weak drawer. I had to build myself up to prove that I am a good artist to her, and even though she hated my improvements, I had the guts to show my pride under tense pressure. I rather improve for myself than for a crowd who hates everything I do. I wish I was Sakura’s friend so I can tell her my experience and the lessons I learned from it. To me, HYBE is a toxic company. You have a company that doesn’t listen to the feedback of fans- like we just want Sakura to succeed like her peers! I get that criticism hurts, but it’s coming from a place of concern… the LSRFM girls been under public scrutiny all this year and we just want a turnaround for them, especially Sakura.
17:10 On the topic of Queen Wonyoung and Sojang, didn’t Sojang also harass other idols? Wonyoung took her down and spared everyone else that headache, didn’t she?
A women was being bullied for crying and she made a twenty minute video about how it was a bad marketing move like wtf? Is it really the most important thing in this situation?
I usually agree with your points everglow up but I need to actually do your research because you said stuff that one is incorrect make assumptions or points based on things that aren’t even correct -from an avid viewer also crazy this gets more views than the min heejin videos
Oh boyo I was there for the Coachella discourse, and I had a lot of people pissy at me for saying le sserafim (and their company) were in the wrong for their reaction. I don’t WANT to compare idol groups especially GG vs BG but because the only other Kpop group I cared about at Coachella was Ateez I reminded everyone how GOOD Ateez sounded. Objectively Ateez has harder choreo, they have some more vocally difficult songs, and they were for the most part going all in the entire time. Le sserafim was….kinda standing around and occasionally dancing or dancing at half capacity and STILL couldn’t manage it. Now, Ateez used backing vocals 100% I will not deny that (unlike some fans) however they were all clearly heard over the supporting backup vocals and still had to hit notes in very difficult situations, which they did. I’m not sure if the lack of backups was le sserafim’s choice, their company’s, or a problem with the stage, but if you’re going to not do backup vocals in a high octane venue, with harsh winds, sand that will get into your throat, and just generally not GREAT conditions, you gotta make sure your voice is on par. Even Jongho, the king of 4th gen vocalists had to make sure his voice was in top shape. The day AFTER their first weekend, he went to a vocal coach instead of attending the festival because he had an opportunity to work with a highly sought after vocal coach, and because he said he felt he was lacking in places on his performance the night prior and wanted to work out those issues before the next week. I commend him for that because it’s recognizing that this isn’t just about being an idol and being famous, you have to WORK for it (no pun intended). All I saw from le sserafim was a lacking performance and when folks complained, the girls just doubled down. They added the backing vocals the following week but made them too loud so you couldn’t hear them anymore. Now I didn’t expect them to get better in a week like some folks, so the damage control was needed, but I think the response was less than stellar. For me though this situation boils down to a combination of le sserafim not being ready/being too young for Coachella because they did not have as much experience with festivals under their belt, and HYBE just….sending them. Idk if Coachella asked for le sserafim specifically or if they just asked for a group/artist and HYBE chose le sserafim. Regardless, if the former HYBE should have declined, and if the latter they should have sent a different group to perform. I love Ateez, I’ve been an atiny since 2020 and if Ateez had been invited in their first 2-3 years of their career I genuinely do not think we’d have gotten as good of a performance as we got. It might have still been good, and probably would have but genuinely, you need more experience before you can do something as big as Coachella and I’m glad they finally got the opportunity at the point they’re at in their career. But if by some miracle Coachella had Ateez on their radar and asked KQ to send them within their first few years I don’t know if that would have been as good as w think it could have been.
If you watch the entire Coachella show and not just the edited parts, you would see that Sakura was the most stable in her vocals, I'm sure that Sakura takes criticism of her vocals seriously, in my case I can see that Sakura stands out in several other positive points of an Idol, in my opinion she has the best stage presence of the entire group, her dancing skills improved a lot since when she was in the group Izone and in addition the girls from Le sserafim have great synchronization in their dance performances, As a fan, I wish that Sakura improves her vocals, not for me but for herself so that she can please the people who like her and expect this from her, I have faith in her dedication and her passion for being an Idol, I just hope that Hybe and Source Music gives you the tools and encourages you to become even better.
@@FloptropicanPresidentShe is currently experiencing her toxic diva era. After the Bangchan video, we got this, lol. I don't why she is setting up her own favs like if something like this happens to any Ive members will she make a video on them too. These youtubers should be grateful full to Sakura at least they are getting views because of her.
@@R.S-si5hu don't act like EGU never criticized ive. We literally have a video where she talks about Wonyoung stage presence an critics her stage presence
Everglowup trying not to bring up Wonyong or Ive every 3s :Level impossible. She's in her toxic Dive era.When the fan fever comes down it's gonna be super embarrassing.
Or maybe ive was used as an example because they dealt with the same issue and used smarter tactics to avoid more hate... like why is everything being considered toxic, do you think before you type?
Or maybe ive was used as an example because they dealt with the same issue and used smarter tactics to avoid more hate... like why is everything being considered toxic, do you think before you type?
@@carrie_heart She oversimplified the situation to make it fit her narrative. The lack of skills of Leeseo wasn't the main reason for her hate train and she still got backlash from her haters for reproducing the diveu incident. And while I am very happy that ive improved, the hate had already died down when they showed significent improvement so its not the reason that stopped the hate, and Ive never deserved such hate train in the first place, even for their skills.
Sakura was actually my bias when Le Sserafim just debuted because I have known her since Izone and she improved a lot in dancing. But her vocal is still disappointing. I think part of the blame lies in Hype though, because Yunjin and Chaewon's vocal ability also went down. Hype really should get them a better vocal teacher. Another thing is most of Le Sserafim's songs do not suit the members' vocal range. Rather trying to make cool music, Hype should give the girls song that suit them.
We know the difference but thinking you will stop doing your job properly because of hate is being childish. And btw hate and criticism sound the same to fans (that's what I've noticed)
Navy SEALS have a motto: “No bad crews; only bad leaders.” This situation falls to the leader. C should have been on top of this. Same at BP - lack of leadership. Jisoo never learned English like all other idols, Jennie built no stamina and couldn’t remember choreo. No leadership = no accountability.
I would say no leadership= only the ones that want to improve will do it so according to their knowledge but the team might fall apart for lack of a commun goal. But I do not know anyone from militar background.
100% agree omg that’s why I don’t understand when a group doesn’t have a leader. Also C as in chaewon right ? If so you’re right as well but in her case being the leader and not being the oldest is tricky particularly when the member you need to monitor(?) lecture(?) for her poor skills is older AND has been here for 10+years… I mean 10years in you can’t tell me thoughts of getting a vocal teacher on your own has never, even once, crossed your mind years ago wtf
@@リリ-p4v Some groups that don't have leaders are because they are accountable by themselves or being made accountable by each other, their teamwork comes from helping each other instead of one person. But it also doesn't make much sense Chaewon not being able to do this even if she is not the oldest when other groups with leaders being either the 2nd/3rd oldest do well. Maybe she feels she isn't capable of saying anything to her since she's been in the industry longer? But also, they've been in the same group for 6 years and she asked her to come back to Korea and join her?
@@rosietales agree! take newjeans they don’t have a leader but all lead together and they are doing good like that! But some groups need leaders. Also yeah leaders aren’t the oldest all the time but if they aren’t then it’s usually the one who has been here the longest or just have that leadership attitude (jihyo, soyeon, yujin, haewon for example). In chaewon case she clearly doesn’t have those leadership qualities (only for now I hope) and on top of that having before her a member that has 12+ years experience AND is older makes it even harder. She probably doesn’t dare to criticize her or worse she probably did but not in a serious way. About the last part I don’t think it’s true it’s probably some PR type of sh1t again to make it sweet and stuff
I feel like she should work on herself and prove herself not for others but for herself she's literally getting paid for this and as a person who studies psychology she's using public to gain "sympathy" for her weak vocals and painting critisism as hate .
I think there are two issues at hand regarding her singing. I'm saying this as a person taking great singing lessons for 3 years now. First is obviously HYBE/Source music. Clearly, their coaches are bad professionals. You don't see many artists under HYBE being vocally outstanding (except for PLEDIS groups, but they were vocally trained through PLEDIS before PLEDIS was linked to HYBE). In fact, lots of them are average at debut and worsen through time. As a person who has taken singing lessons for years, I surely can say that you simply do NOT improve drastically without good professional assistance. You can improve a little (Iroha's case), or think you are doing well by intuitively trying some type of technique that later is detrimental to your vocal chords (DREAMCATCHER Siyeon's case). That being said, Sakurs can't improve by herself, and her company doesn't want to help her either. BUT, here comes the second issue: Sakura. Let me give you an example. Seungmin from Stray kids was nowhere near being a main-vocal-worthy singer when Woojin left the group, and JYPE didn't have good enough vocal coaches to guide him to do so. What did he do with his salary? Look for a decent vocal coach, put his whole effort to it and drastically improved. So did I.N. and Lee know. So did Chen of EXO (he used to sing in a harmful way for his voice and through guidance out of SM,he developed healthy technique). So did Baekhyun and so many more idols. Why doesn't she do the same with her money? It isn't like she's in a flopping girl group with debt on her shoulders. This attitude makes her look like she doesn't value her craft, just saying.
this is what ive been saying. hybe and source is framing this soooo wrong. thanks for putting a name to this as an emotional blackmail to avoid criticism. just focus on improving and showing the world you are above the criticism
ikr that hate trains are horrible and etc but yall cant just stop the hate. in internet, hate is everywhere and im pretty sure sakura knew that when decided to be a idol. she needs to learn how to ignore that hate comments and start to accept criticism and improve. her crying in a documentary won't magically stop the hate.
The most frustrating thing abt this whole sakura thing for me is that this idols earn $$ every appearance they do yet being subpar is okay. Unlike any other career if u where to show up not being “competent” you’ll be losing your whole livelihood. Yet idols only get a slap on the wrist and a few hate trend from the internet (which you can actually ignore like fr put the phone down )
Which you can actually ignore is crazy statement to make becuase you do realize other idols probably gossip behind their backs you say that cause your not in that position of getting hate to make sounds like it nothing pretty tone deaf statement
Haters are really disrespectful & traumatizing. They arent giving criticism they are giving fear & trauma. Criticism are meant to be helpful & not degrading. Criticism should point the wrongs & then make a positive feedback not all full hate to the point your confidence is destroyed. These haters are fault finders. They can't even say Sakura improves, they keep desteoying her & not see the positive improvements.
Yh, no duh. It's like what Cheryl said, haters love knowing they can toy and control your emotions. Haters are gonna hate. What you mentioned was hate, not criticism. It's important that we pay no mind to Bullies because as soon as they realize that they cant affect us, they'll get bored. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't ignore the criticism that Sakura is facing, which is valid btw.
Who cares... Twitter sucks. The GG stans complaining are the same ppl that will bully IVE with no remorse all while having "Girl's girl' in their bio. They're not meant to be taken seriously lol.
In fact, The main reason why Sakura and LSM are even getting dragged is because their fandom's annoying and refuse to leave ppl alone. They attack every fandom under the sun yet love to play the victim.
I stan lesserafim and agree with everything. Same goes to everyone in the basic vocal department. Also Hybe should give them easier choreography + Song for their vocal range to not overwork them to the point they don't have time to improve their vocal and hardly feeling content
Im not disagreeing with the point of the video but I cant help but frown at the comments on here that yet again attack sakura directly.. if u think eunchae yunjin or kazuhas vocals are any better than sakura you are totally deaf. Hybes lack of training and support for their trainees hit everyone in that group and will continue to be an issue for new groups, iroha traininh and working hard is great but she shouldnt have to do it herself in the first place?? Hybe doesnt make art, they make drama. Thats why they dgaf. This isnt a pr mistake, its a stunt
I think rather than thinking the other members are better vocalists than sakura, it's the fact that sakura has been an idol on and off for ten whole years. she shouldn't be on the same level as her members at all, it's quite literally unreal for her to be on par with kazuha and eunchae, who've only been idols during lesserafims run.
@@know-it-all-but-not-really my point was that hybes standards are low because they have no passion or interest in making good music or training good singers, if sakura kazuha and eunchae need training and dont get it - the fans suffer in their concerts and their reputation is damaged. At the end of the day the result is the same for all 3 members regardless of their background. The problem needs to be solved eiher way
i feel like a lot of people have come up with long thinkpieces about the documentary with very VERY little understanding of the bigger picture. so i’ll clear up the misconceptions: 1. there is not a single second of footage in this documentary that took place after coachella. **not a single second of the girls’ reactions were a response to coachella.** nothing here has anything to do with coachella. this documentary was filmed over a year ago during unforgiven era, so the clip of sakura crying had absolutely nothing to do with her more recent backlash. 2. i’d also like to add that this documentary is a SEQUEL to another documentary that they had during debut called “the world is my oyster” (which showed similar content). that documentary was released after their debut fearless (first in their first trilogy) and a little before antifragile (next in their first trilogy). that was the documentary for their fearless/antifragile/unforgiven trilogy. now this next documentary, “make it look easy,” was released after easy (first in their second trilogy) and a little bit before their next comeback, crazy (next in their second trilogy). this documentary was released in a similar alignment to the comebacks as the first documentary was (sandwiched between the first two EPs in each trilogy, that is). **So no, the documentary was not timely dropped as a response to coachella either.** It was simply following the schedule which was predetermined for months. 3. So now we’ve established this documentary has nothing to do with their recent hate train. you have no evidence of the girls NOT taking steps to improve themselves either. I mean, the documentary itself showed both kazuha and sakura expressing expressing how they want to improve. There are SEVERAL clips of them practicing in the practice room, of them in the recording studio, there was even a whole part where sakura talked about how much she loves her job. there were several personal anecdotes by the members themselves simply expressing their struggles but also showing them persevering as well. I think judging the entire 100+ minute documentary from a less than a minute clip is just… spreading misinformation. 4. But that was last year, as i told you. every single clip was from last year. How would one know they’re not taking steps to improve? on SBS gayo their recent performance was 100% live and they sounded stable. there was no backtrack either, you can tell because in the chorus when they had to jump kazuha sounded a little shaky, but you can hear them from the microphone. i think of watching official sbs gayo video, watching a fancam can prove it. 5. I’d like to touch up a bit on sakura. in her weverse letter (which was a response to coachella) she expressed how she liked her performance. notice that in this clip (again, which is over a year old) she had clear anxiety and stage fright. now look at coachella; right after coachella, she’s received mountains of praise (from both fans and nonfans) on her improved confidence and vocals. even antis used her performance to drag other members’ performances. but after the weverse letter (which was in defende of her group’s backlash) people seemed to get offended by it for some reason and also started dragging her vocals as well. Nowadays when i see people dragging sakura’s vocals they use clips other than coachella. just food for thought.
I'm so glad someone has understood the documentary thank you so much for explaining it in such a good way, unfortunately neither the creator nor the viewers are gonna be sane enough to read a proper description like you've given. They're gonna ignore this like they ignored every part of the docu
Yes, she is shown multiple time having vocal lesson without any problem yet people only aknowledge the moment when she cry and comment things like "she don't try to improve". Enverglow up refered to these moment as " few montage when she is showed giggling with her coach" what is she supposed to do at this point?
100% this. And 5 is exactly right. It's insanity to talk about the weverse letter as "crybaby Sakura" when it's a response to criticism . Not once does she mention her own performance specifically, and she did very well - frankly better than I, as a Sakura-wrecker, expected.
I've honestly noticed that in situations where a group/idol is facing a hate train due to kpop fans being dissatisfied with their weak area in talent, the best way to earn back their respect is to allow the artists to quietly work on improving their skills behind the scenes and allow the result of their efforts during practice to speak for itself during their performances. Evidently, these improvements come with time and fans should be patient. In that sense, I agree with the fact that source music really didn't help with Sakura's situation with this documentary as they kind of prevented her from taking accountability for her weakness in vocals.
For example, aespa had a hate train earlier in their career due to lacking stage presence. However, nowadays I can say that I really enjoy watching their performances and they seem more in sync as a group.
Let the action speak ! This documentary was just a weak awnser to haters
Exactly same thing happen with Ive, during their debut they got hate for not being able to sing live and now after lolapalooza they have received major praise por their live vocals
I’m still in DEEP shock by how Winter has improved. Cheryl should talk about this and re rank the girls
@@mohhhhhhhhgjghvcy I feel like Armaggedon's stage performances truly solidified how much Giselle and Winter have improved their stage presence. I think aespa as a group has the potential to become one of the best performers of 4th gen.
@@Reve-to-the-V YESSS i was already shocked by Winter in Drama but then Armageddon showed me that Giselle IS THERE TOO!! The way she ate that dance practice video OH MY GOOD!!! They all improved sm tbh even Karina and Ningning especially my girl NN, i didnt really get the hype about her SP i just thought she was ok but that was until Drama and Armageddon.
Now Aespa is a complete group, with top tier vocals, good rap line, great dancers and now becoming amazing performers. I’m so proud to be a My since Day1! Seing their growth and how the public has come to appreciate them more is so satisfying 🥰
"we live in a world where anyone has the right to say anything about you.. but you have the right to prove them wrong."
Quote by the music industry:)
@@JaniceRose-sm4sp 🤭
True everyone has the right to prove ppl wrong and let them know
Not really though. It depends on what the subculture is. Some definitely lean towards so called ‘cancel culture’, whereas in others you wouldn’t have an issue unless said person actually proved it or took you to court or something.
Also I see this being used as an argument against younger or more liberal people. But let’s not forget the entire internet losing their shit over a boxer who was born female, and straight up spouting conjecture and lies about her.
If we want to have this argument then it’s about a larger tendency that we as individuals have to forgo due process if an assumption or unsubstantiated claim fits our cognitive biases and beliefs.
@@notaspeck6104agreed
she doesn't even need a "brutally honest" teacher, she just needs one who can respectfully communicate her difficulties, what she has to do to overcome them and also make it clear that change requires a lot effort and discipline
she needs a teacher that doesn't immediately relent the moment she started to show tears. idk what the teacher's strategy is but it's not working. they need to start being stricter.
her difficulties that strain her vocal cords are in her head, but it's not very effective to work on alleviating mental pressure when this mental pressure is with you 28 days a month.
This feels like a whole PR lecture for the company to look at ...
True.
The best thing to shut up about”haters” would’ve been to give them vocal training in private while they take a small hiatus and return better than ever. Instead hybe threw them a pity party
@@NaDee-mh2po this whole year just prove to me that HYBE PR is terrible. How are they getting out PR-ed by min heejin and everyone else?
@@mariasol1545 They say that the documentary was planned way before the hate train? Which would explain why the focus was on Sakura when in truth she was the only one who got out of the Coachella performance unscathed with praises. It doesn't feel like a pity party more like a idiotic decision to go forward with something when the situation isn't as it used to be.
@@cheesySOS Idk. The PR team is making my head spin with the min heejin issue. I think it could also be that people are merely just ready enough to hate on Hybe at the moment so like they just gotta breathe wrong once and they will get attacked.
I must say, the editing 'top tier'..
thank you 🎀
@@everglowup truee🥹😍what are u using to edit???
i have an editing channel and i loooved the start of the video looking like netflix.
did u use canva templates for that?
or create it urself???
@@fixedmetamorphosis I made it myself (on Filmora) and got the idea to make it pink from Song Jia's channel for her Rome vlogs.
Sometimes I wonder what the hell are PR teams doing, cuz there are some things that I feel you don't need to be a genius to know
I swear because nothing I said here is revolutionary, you'd think PR teams would be smart enough to do their jobs.
Releasing a documentary and overworking Le Sserafim is the worst thing they could have done. They should have put Le Sserafim on hiatus where they actually improve their vocals. So next comeback they prove they can sing live. Pushing them more in the public eyes will just get them more criticism.
@@everglowupCan I say something? Is it possible that Sakura thinks that the vocals don't need to be taken seriously as the generation keeps on changing? Like in 2nd gen, it was all about vocals while in 3rd gen, it was about choreography and to some degree raps and in 4th gen, it was about choreography. I have been seeing the importance of vocals videos now these months.
@@Yo99753very possible just not a good mindset at all.
@@Yo99753 It is possible, and if that's the case, that's not a good thing. If she was the group's rapper it would be completely understandable but vocals are taken so seriously in general atthe moment and if she doesn't believe they are important then she's gravely mistaken because k-pop makes music, and in music, vocals are always gonna matter.
To the people saying "Good job to IVE and aespa for not listening to the hate," neither group should've been hated in the first place. Idk why y'all act like hate trains are acceptable, they are not, and they're completely pointless. Actually valid criticism is completely masked by disgusting comments. aespa, Itzy, IVE, Le Sserafim, and ILLIT literally get more hate than kpop idols who actually committed literal crimes, it's baffling
well you can't stop groups to have a hate-train, bc you can't control other people's actions. even if all international fans stopped participating in hate trains, you have the entire asian continent of people who would. and you can't do anything about it🤷
@@lovelymill Even if you wouldn't and others will, doesn't make hate trains or hating in general okay, you know?
@@iMikouSen i didn't say it was okay. i said you can't stop it from happening. and i PERSONALLY don't participate in them
@@lovelymill You can always try. Because, in the end, the Idols are just humans and have feelings too. They aren't robots. But at least you don't participate in them because I despise all these haters. Because some of them have baseless hate, they just hate for fun. And for the people with based hate, try put yourself in their shoes. How would you feel getting all that hate thrown at your face? No one to hold you, to tell you everything's going to be okay.
Just saying, not to you obv. But the people who do join hate trains.
aespa ignored the hate and listened to the valid criticism, which should be the standard for any artist. on the other hand, le sserafim ignored the hate AND the valid criticism, which is a problem
I was scared when I clicked on this video but relieved to see this is a criticism of Source Music's PR rather than having it be "Sakura sucks" video like the rest
hybe threw them a pity party, I understand why some ppl would say it’s a terrible PR idea
Well the problem is sakura is actually Shown literally expressing herself to her VOCAL COACH. It doesn’t make sense to litterally say she’s not trying when she’s literally learning to sing better with a Vocal coach and litterally learning from the vocal coach in both the documentary and every single video surfacing. It’s incredibly stupid to act as if everyone grows and improves at the same pace. What source should have down is not responded and not have shown her most vulnerable moments. She’s literally breaking down and they are putting that out. It’s ridiculous they would just place her crying and having an anxiety attack in the documentary. It’s such a horrible thing they did. And i definitely agree the title of this video definitely invites sakura haters to join the club and bully her more
@@Bunnybunny5656I understand that point, I swear. But I do still disagree. I think, showcasing their weaknesses, which is the precise opposite of what the Kpop industry is all about, which is perfection and a polished picture perfect lie, to sell to Fans, was a HUGE risk, and kinda.. brave. I can't Look at this, and say "buhhh, this is just Hybe PR to get sympathy"... I see many people saying that, but honestly, I think that says more about them and what they have in their hearts, then it does about Le Sserafim, or even Hybe.
I think, after what happend to Idols like Sulli and Hara, who were very real people, showing themselves raw and vulnerable on social Media, and getting dragged for it over years, ending in mental illness and self-exit, that Industry needs a great reality Check. At the time, they wanted to persue the 'Sulli Act', a law that was supposed to end the online anonymity, and prevent Cyber bullying, but after a few months, it was forgotten and thrown under the rug. And Look where we are now...
Not only do Idols need to get more protection from Online crimes and harrassment, but Trainees and parents need to get a reality Check and know what they get themselves and their minor Kids into, when they choose that carreer path. This documentary may Not be what people wanted to see, but I do believe it's what people, and specially the Kpop industry, needed. Le Sserafim may be lacking on many things, but they also don't need to be completely discredited or the emotions shown in the docu completely invalidaded, Just because of an alleged "pity party" for Hybe. Whatever the Intention behind the Idea to publish it was, I think this is a rare glimpse of what is really going on behind the scenes for MANY of those Idols and Kpop groups. I'm sure, every single Idol can relate to those insecurities and fears. And we May Not understand it, but I believe this industry needed this.
This is 100% a "Sakura sucks" video like the rest. Ignoring the actual improvements, calling her defending her members after Coachella weekend 1 a "crybaby response" (when the actual criticisms of Coachella 1 were at Yunjin and Eunchae; Sakura did surprisingly well), implying she doesn't deserve her place in Le Sserafim, downplaying the haters and saying what she really needs is "harsh criticism."
@@Pookasoul that’s all well and all but there was no reason the industry punching bag was the best group to show that. It just fueled fire. Look at this video. Majority of it is everglow just invalidating exactly what your saying shouldn’t be invalidated. She compared sakura to her ex izone members. Claimed she’s not making an effort to grow and improve, and literally marked the entire document series as a pity party. If a kpop UA-camr that’s racking in thousands of viewers and hundreds of commenters is speaking like this how do you think the millions of others likely feels about it? It’s very easy to sway sheep. Most kpop fans won’t even listen past the first few minutes and see the title and just assume there’s Al other person making a video proving sakura “is a bad singer” or “not trying to improve” ect, ect. Whatever other negative narratives they are going for. But truth of the matter is sakura at Coachella was THE most Stable and consistent and these documentaries were filmed before Coachella so that shows improvement yet it’s ignored. I completely disagree with having sakura be so vulnerable so soon during a hate train. It’s done nothing but fuel it. And now haters have amo. I just saw a sakura hater who had a profile pic that was a screen shot of sakura during her anxiety attack back stage. Like that’s sick!
as a PR student, this vid is VERY interesting and informative. thank you so much for this well put together video.
Please don't be like source pls🙏🙏😭😭
🎀❣️
What does your being a PR student have to do with your comment??? 😂. You really could've just said, "this vid is VERY interesting and informative. thank you so much for this well put together video." 😂😂😂
@@lr2ldn it shows that op's opinion is backed by experience in this field? lol idk what is so hard to understand about that.
@@lr2ldn it shows that they were more interested in it bc they're studying it. it is just related relax its not that deep
watching this video, IVE is such a great example of RESILIENCE. I'm not a fan of these ggs, just a casual listener, and seeing how IVE - with still very young members, overcame their hate trains, improved, and delivered better performances every time, even Lollapalooza, big shout out to them.
They never let the hatred take advantage of them and affect them publicly at least. Wonyoung girlie was so young and still is and she always keeps her head up despite facing constant nonsense haters, IVE works so hard, this kind of attitude is so exemplary. I just wanted to praise them for that, because again I'm not a fan but they genuinely impress me, they always turn the tables and change the public opinion, and gain sympathy and empathy
Not everybody has the same mental strenght.
wonyoung's mindset is really something that we all need to take notes from. she has said mutiple times that she accepts all the criticisms when they are based on facts. seeing how much she has improved vocally, she definitely took the criticisms gracefully and worked on herself. ive's pr strategy is to never respond directly and just showed them one way or another. they know they are lacking in some ways and they are continually working on proving that.
Again i’m not a FAN 😅
@@MrGadiriz 😁🤣🤣
Absolutely, at first I was very unimpressed with Ive and found them boring, but now I'm a fan and I love their performances
I can't say much about sakura as a person, but this girl has been a idol (jpop and kpop) for so many years, which adds to the criticism, because it gets to a point where the pu lic asks themselves "how are you still so subpar when you've been at this for so long?" and I find myself questioning her lack of improvement even more after the doc, rather than blindly sympathising.
loved the video btw
It's mainly because she came from groups that didn't need her to sing well at all. Akb48 usually sings in unison, and she barely got more than 6 seconds of lines in Izone. Most of her experience has ben as a subvocalist
@@watashi5700That group has a system that reward the "idols" that manage to improve and learn to sing and dance making them center. Even if you are popular the center spot is for the most skilled ones, not the mos popular. One of her skeletons in the closset is the rumour how she managed to snatch that place without the required skills for it.
I was thinking the same thing. If your job is to be a singer and you're a bad singer after many years of professional trial, then maybe you're in the wrong field. I wouldn't try to be an accountant if I were bad at math! Seems like common sense
@@belaytriksYeah as a jpop fan this is all way to familiar, I remember when she was announced as one of the centers for Kibouteki Refrain and people were (rightfully ngl) upset that it wasn’t either a different member (namely Yuki Kashiwagi) or they thought Mayu Watanabe should’ve just done it by herself. Plus people thought she was fake, entitled and bratty on the episode of their variety show AKBINGO! That was promoting the song. Shit also really hit the fan too when she was the center of Kimi Wa Melody, AKB48’s 10th anniversary song. Now, some background info in the simplest way possible, is that there are 7 members, Atsuko Maeda, Yuko Oshima, Minami Takahashi, Mayu Watanabe, Haruna Kojima, Mariko Shinoda and Tomomi Itano, who are considered the “Kami 7” or God 7, they were and still are the most popular and influential members, and whenever you ask someone about the 48g, they’re gonna be named first. At the time that Kimi Wa Melody came out, Atsuko Maeda, Yuko Oshima, Tomomi Itano and Mariko Shinoda had already left (and Minami Takahashi was getting ready to leave as well) but they were brought back for the song, and it just created a shitstorm where everyone was upset that the original Kami 7 members were brought back and yet this “random girl” (Sakura) was the center for their 10th anniversary? The fact that she was from a sister group also added to people’s dissatisfaction. It’s not even just the Kami 7, this was now the 2nd time that people felt that Yuki Kashiwagi was robbed as a center by Sakura and Minami Minegishi was part of the original lineup and yet she wasn’t even included? Even the defense that the song was about the old AKB evolving into the new AKB didn’t really hold up because why weren’t Haruka Shimazaki, Yui Yokoyami, or Mion Mukaichi chosen if that was the point? Although imo part if this is kpop fans not understanding jpop bc Yume De Kiss Me was extremely unpopular, AKB has this thing called Request Hour where fans vote on their top 100 favorite songs, and Yume De Kiss Me PEAKED at #95 out of 100, and people even called it a knockoff of Miyuki Watanabe’s Warukii, which is one of if not the most iconic AKB solos. (Although for what it’s worth Sakura’s other solo song “Kanojo” was a lot more positively received and I really like it!) And even in HKT48, there were other members like Haruka Kodama, Chiyori Nakanishi and ESPECIALLY Rino Sashihara who were also considered pillar members, kpop stans kinda set her up by acting like she was this huge star in AKB when she was like…the 11th most popular member in a spin-off branch of AKB, which btw, even then, SKE, NMB and even JKT I’m pretty sure are more popular than HKT)
Watching the documentary, I had the same thought-why would Source Music provide more fuel for people to target Sakura? Their attempt to showcase a 'sad, vulnerable, and authentic' side of the girls seems misguided. While I can empathize with how she felt, it comes across as naive and tone-deaf for both the company and her to assume that people wouldn't use this against her even more.
Sakura response to the Coachella backlash was the killing point cuz girl. I've never seen any idol say no we did do good it was our best and those who liked it liked it.. idols always say we will do better even when winning awards.
Also I get it some ppl will never be great singers but come on she isn't the best dancer or performer so like what is going on.
She said that because they indeed did good in Coachella if you only focus on dance, performing and stage presence, yes it can be considered their best performance yet if we count it in general however the vocals were horrible and kinda overshadowed that because that's the main point of being a singer, is knowing how to sing.
@@music-lover-xoxo700 Yes so she shouldn't have been so obtuse to ignore the vocal criticism. She can talk about what they did well with performing while acknowledging the criticism that's the problem.
You can just click "not interested" and go about your day. But all of you sit here for months on end not being able to come to terms with their vocal issues. I feel second hand emberassement from the inability to simply disconnect and live your life.
It seems like source music still isn't giving her vocal lessons she needs
Like wen u see in the documentary how they tell her to sing this way or in this key but she still doesn't get it
It's like they didn't teach her the basics of singing, which I think she needs to start on.
@@music-lover-xoxo700 the thing is it was their best performance, sure, but the bar is too high for the public. Compared to other groups, their "best" performance was not up to par in the gp's eyes.
I think the hate got a lot worse because of fearnots reaction to the well deserved criticism.
They constantly play the victims and make up excuses, while simultaneously insulting other groups and Fandom - especially Ive and Aespa, groups who both improved after receiving criticism.
At this point it feels like le sserafim will only improve if their income will take a hit because of the criticism. Why else would they?
They have their brainless mob of fan making up excuses, emotionally blackmailing people who voice well deserved criticism against the girls, while still throwing their money at le sserafim for doing less than the bare minimum as an idol.
Calling the hate train “well deserved criticism” is crazy bc no group should be hated on the way they were
@@whathappened5797 sure but doubling down and calling an objectively bad performance your "best performance yet" was a pretty dumb move from a PR perspective, even if that's genuinely how she felt. accepting valid criticism is important for an artist to actually improve, instead of chalking it ALL up to unfounded hate (which I'm also not denying the existence of, especially with female idols)
The best example of using constructive criticism is DUA LIPA. the hate she get back then because of her dancing.. 😅
@@jhg440 so true!!! Back then people criticized her poor dancing skills and lack of energy and enthusiasm while performing on a stage. But now look at her, she looks like she genuinely has way more fun and energy while performing and this not only improves her stage presence but also makes the crowd enjoy the performance with her. As much as I love lesserafim and the girls they definitely need harsh criticism but not hate. Hate will affect artist's mental health but criticism is for their own good as it will help them to improve their skills and not repeat the same mistake again.
I think source need to give these girls a break. Like give them a year hiatus, and take that time to improve their laking skills. Being in a big company is their advantage, even though they disappear , people will not forget about them, and this alone time, can help the company and idols both to see every situation objectively.
If sakura wanted to improve, she wouldnt need a hiatus, she would have improved on her own
@@luna740the hiatus wouldn’t only be for their skills, it would also be for public opinion. At some point in the future, another girl group would suffer a hate train, which would make any minimal improvement from le sserafim look amazing
I'm a marketing major with a concentration in digital media and a minor in psychology.
Showing Sakura cry in this circumstance was one of the worst moves that the company could have taken.
If they had shown her crying after clearly seeing her practice hard and improve, her crying would have been her best weapon.
Instead, they showed her getting genuine constructive criticism and breaking down to consecutively Sakura doing nothing to improve her vocals.
The intent for pity yet being accused of playing victim should have been expected
Did you watch the ep ? She cries while having a lesson with a vocal coach, it's not accurate to say she isn't shown trying to improve.
I agree it was a bad move from Hybe tho.
@lasciemie6346 others have pointed out in another video how the vocal lesson was bad - sitting down hunched over, no warm ups, no talk of technique or technical feedback and the vocal coach comes off as a motivational speaker rather than a proper vocal coach.
It would have been better if she was given genuine technical feedback, see her work on that feedback for a long period of time and then cry as with Iroha from Illit.
I love seeing people with actual degrees and schooling on this stuff confirm fan drawn conclusions. We're not jobless stans, WE'RE EDUCATED STANS
@@shermk7955 bruh her lack of vocal is because of her mental health. What she needs to work on is her CONFIDENCE which is why her coach give her motivation. Vocal coach not only teach people how to sing and their technic but sometimes also need to deal with their clients mental health too because it's one of the factor to help people able to SING, heck, even just talking need confident too
Just because you're studying those major doesn't mean you have the emphaty and critical thinking to THINK about this. BRUH girl is literally in vocal room PRACTICING and you still saying she doesn't do anything to improve. She literally said she was MORE MOTIVATED to practice in her letter that people hates on and the vocal coach literally asked "why you lost your confidence?" After making a mistake WHICH IS the main problem sakura has, WHICH WHAT SHE WORKED ON. Yes I agree this is a bad PR move but dear god
In the first documentary, she mentioned she knew she couldn’t sing and that’s the same issue years later . It sends the wrong message about her and the company to the public
You don’t get to say a group is performance based and their vocals are literally not up to par
But Sakura has improved vocal wise from the first to the second documentary.
Like she's actually started to develop healthy and proper vocals compared to before hand.
That she isn't improving in the speed that people want or expect is another case.
And it's impossible for her not to get affected by how people are attacking her, so of course it's gonna be something that takes up a lot of space within her mind.
@@dharling97 I’m not saying she shouldn’t be affected . She’s allowed to have emotions but displaying that publicly for the second time isn’t good . The documentary should have focused on her working hard . Her crying isn’t the issue . It’s the fact that it was public ie the documentary, it just goes to show she’s an easy target hence let’s bully her even more . It sent the wrong message out there .
@@dharling97wow, for a globally recognized “senior” artist that earns way more than any average person could ever dream, the bar is set pretty low isn’t it
@@mvhd_faizthe bar is in hell
The thing is, Sakura could learn to sing easily if she just had a good teacher. And I don’t just mean a teacher that knows how to teach singing, but some that understands insecurity and knows how to work with her to gain confidence in her ability through teaching her correctly.
Based on what I’ve seen from Hybe groups, I don’t think they have a particularly talented singing teacher.
my question is why isn't Sakura working on her anxiety if it's a problem even bigger than her singing abilities? like, can't the company fit a therapy session here and there in her schedule?
It's either they don't care or something, or it's just a stunt, or Hybe is really dense and can't see their artist needs HELP
As someone who struggles with anxiety I just want to say that it's not as simple as that. From my personal experience, it took years for me to accept that there's smtg wrong with me. I didn't want to see any therapist cus where I'm from mental health is a joke. And let's not forget Asian countries are still closed minded in that matters. The kpop industry isn't really the best environment to be in when you're in that state but as she said she also scared of stopping. You could say that's on her then but anxiety is such a self destructive shit. It's really complex.
The theraphy needs to happen outside of Hybe and with a theraphist that force her and guide her outside of her comfort zone. That is not that easy to get and really uncomfortable to handle unless you are determinated to do it. Taking in consideration how much she has "improved" as singer... I have some doubts she wants to go trought that.
I feel she might be in the wrong industry and country to get proper treatment for anxiety.
When was it confirmed Sakura has anxiety? Her crying for sympathy does not mean her having any anxiety. It was obvious she was shedding fake tears for the camera. Lot of documentaries about celebrities are scripted. Hybe thought releasing a documentary that shows the crying will stop criticism. What Hybe should have done instead is to put Le Sserafim on hiatus and let them improve their vocals. So next comeback they will prove haters that they took the criticism and actually improved. But Hybe is a lazy company only after money, they could care less about their artists fans. They are only greedy after money.
she definitely needs improvement, but I'd cry too if people were saying the things she has to hear to me
like I said, nothing wrong with crying, hate trains suck. But making it public made her look like a cry baby instead of a responsible adult.
@@everglowup That's fair, but i don't think there's anything wrong in showing her crying as it's a completely normal respose to getting harrassed. Besides, they did show her working hard later in the same episode
@@RadioactiveOrangethat isn’t even what is wrong per se, the fact she got defensive in her reply for the hate made things worse.
@@everglowup but she is not a full grown adult is she?? Expecting her to react with full emotional maturity is a bit too much. Even full grown mature adult won't be able to handle all this in a positive way.
People are just plain cruel to her in the name of postive criticism and because she isn't a good vocalist. Pointing it out again and again like this won't do any good. Not like k-pop if filled with great vocalist.
Talking about her vocals is one thing but the way people are going on about it, it's cruel. Plain cruel. No one can handle it in a positive way.
Her crying was never the issue. It's the way they made it public. Crying isn't something to be frowned upon but in this case, she is being super vulnerable to the wrong people (her haters bc of the hate train). Her crying is showcasing that the haters have broken her which is what haters will use to their advantage. This is not good for Sakura's image as it is being tarnished.
A good reminder is Leeseo was 15years old at the time of her hate train & it was mostly Fearnots dragging her
Now that the roles are reversed they have a fully victim mindset as if they wasn't loud,laughing & bullying IVE & Dives from the middle of 2022-3rd Quarter 2023..
bare in mind a 15year old +medium comany handle this more maturely & strategically than a 26year old & a company with better management,investments & connections behind them.....
i am glad i do not see this much anymore but i used to see people put Leeseo down to bring up Eunchae. i am a dive and i LOVE eunchae. this made me so mad. and they gotta leave our Leeseo OUTTT for now and forevermore omg!!! btw Leeseo is great I just saw her perform, IVE is great
@@Mal.victory I love both groups and it's disgusting the way they drag the members (from either group) but from an objective point of view, both sides have had a victim mindset (not the groups, but the fans) and it's soooo childish to "fight" bullying with more bullying.
Fearnots have ran their mouth beyond return on other 4th gen groups for a while it really backfired on them now😭
@lxve_585 Exactly. Now Lesserafim is receiving the same treatment Fearnots gave IVE in 2022 😭
No bro, I am a dive but everybody were bullying Ive and everybody is bullying le sserafim now, this isn’t just a fandom problem. And the action of their fan don’t make it okay to send them any hate comment (aside from criticism)
No one is saying she’s not allowed to cry or being angry or hurt . She’s human and allowed to. But revealing this to the public for the second time is not a good look, it just makes her appear annoying or immature getting her more hate
@@foivechan I genuinely don't understand what y'all want from idols. Do y'all want them to be more human or just be the perfect idol they are supposed to be?? Like, if I got even half of the hate she got, I think I would probably be in a worst state than her. Yeah the criticisms are valid but the girl is also doing her best, as much as you don't wanna see it. The main issue with Sakura atp is her confidence and anxiety. As someone who also struggles with both low self-esteem and anxiety I can assure how hard it is to even do well in smtg you're supposed to be good in. The amount of works you put in doesn't help since you seem to always do things wrong and when everyone is so loud about how bad and talentless you are it just mess everything up. I think she needs to focus on her mental health first and people, fan and whoever should also be patient about her progress. I don't think invalidating her feeling is the best way to help her. She said herself that she's talentless so she pretty much aware of what u people criticize her for so what's the point that out when it's clearly not helping her improve. It's like criticizing an obese person who's struggling with weight loss even tho they're going to gym. Can y'all appreciate her efforts and just wait?? And what if she shows that side. She's human, she ain't perfect. She have all the right to be "immature" from time to time and maybe grow from it. She's fucking 26 she doesn't have to have everything figured out. I don't know people, I personally see nothing wrong with them showing her vulnerable side. You like it or not that's part of her. As valid as those criticisms can be, no one would be completely sane with all the hate she got for the past few months to not say year. Idk, maybe it's just how I personally view human beings. We ain't perfect and we're not going to act rational all the time. I love it when people aren't scared to show their worst side (not in a criminal or unethical way tho)
@@meilichankan9282 not saying she shouldn’t cry . She has feelings ofc she gets hurt . I’m saying her company shouldn’t have included that in the documentary . It made things worse if you get me?
@@foivechanI mean that's how she truly felt, I genuinely don't see why they should hide it. The haters will hate no matter what, look at how she get even more hated after it. Idols are always forced to show their good side even in the worst moment. I'm someone who appreciate it when people show vulnerability or their "weak/bad " side. It's not like she's doing it on a daily basis. They can't always be cool or cute. They get mad, sad, tired, frustrated and act immature just like everyone else. I mean, I see what u mean but I'm holding on to my points. I'm sick and tired of idols acting like everything is always ok. I'm here for them, not their "good image"
@@foivechan If someone is being hated by kpop stans no matter what they do they gonna recieve hate even for breathing
Kpop stans or toxic stans want idols perfect but they don't want them to have surgery and also they want idols to look like god or goddess and if they make mistake ofcourse they gonna make mistakes they are human after all
The have to act like puppets
If they resist or show little more emotions than they should be the response from netizens would be like "Oh acting weak again you are getting paid highly and getting fame stop acting like that for getting sympathy"
@@jangthapa5482 yes , K-pop Stans who are hating will keep on hating no matter what they do. No arguement on that . But continuously showing public crying or breakdown because of the hate is only going to fuel them
When they get bored or feel ignored , some will move on to someone or something else
Doesn’t help that she is one of the few idols that chooses to complain instead of improve. Giselle, Shuhua, Onda, all got crucified. They woman-ed up and made the haters eat their words. Sakura just keeps putting more on their plates. Take a page from Ms. Dula Peep.
@@mammamia013 but those are talentless. Sakura is multi talented Actress, Model, Gamer, Crocheter, Comedian & Idol. Those u mentioned? None just basic idol.
@@demonslayer4951so she should be doing that instead of singing.
Really, if you are a fan I feel even more sorry for her.
@@demonslayer4951you ain’t shit but a lie 😭 if she’s so talented why she crying like a baby cause she can’t fucking sing
@@demonslayer4951although she is multitalented, the point is that she isn’t doing her job properly. this is the same as a regular job, you can work at mcdonalds and be talented in everything that you’ve mentioned. yet you need to do your mcdonalds job properly and will be fired if you cannot. no one cares if you’re multitalented when it comes to your job, your job is your job.
also do not dismiss idols for not being multitalented, thats just plain rude. i know youre a sakura or lsf defender but being multitalented doesnt make you a better idol. period.
@@demonslayer4951 Ever heard of “jack of all trades, master of none”? I’d rather be a “basic idol” that can actually do my job well than need to rely on fans to add “crocheter” to my resume. You think Tanjiro’s getting praise for his door fixing abilities? The man barely gets acknowledged as a demon slayer most of the time since he’s useless without the help of others.
Sakura truly need a reality check. Like I'm not hating on her but she is in the industry for like 10 years and still she is a weak singer. She should really work hard on her vocals then she is good to go. Her dancing and stage presence were already great. If she improve her vocal skills and bring back her confidence like leeseo then she is really great.
i say this as someone who has been there and not judgmentally but she seems like she would really benefit from an evidence based therapy for anxiety. like i say this cuz i feel her struggles and want her to thrive cuz agree there are improvements to be made but atp it seems like a mindset problem to address first and then she can shine 100% her brightest as an idol. i say this as someone who genuinely likes her i swear
At this point, I don't even think it's her vocal skill. It's her confidence, insecurity and anxiety she has to work on. People in her team need to step up and get to the root of problem. Maybe she is more capable than what is being shown but her insecurity and anxiety are keeping her back. The relentless hates, bullying, criticisms and her company and PR team fumbling so badly at handling them probably aren't helping her. Instead of filming that pity party of a documentary, the company should have focused more on helping her work on herself, giving the girls more time to rest and practice. Then, let them come back with a bang.
Edit: Just to add, I'm not making excuses for her. I am not a fan of LSF, I don't know how they are or portray themselves as or how difficult their songs are or if their songs suit their vocals as I have only listened to cover versions of their songs. I just feel like the whole thing is getting bigger than it actually is because of all the outside factors that're occurring concurrently.
@@mahogara exactly before giving her vocal lessons she should work on her mental health first. And having a comeback right now isn't the best solution.
I think she might have a really high standard on herself and her not reaching that standard, which might honestly be beyond her skills, might be mentally draining and cause her to regress in her foundational skills. Or she just can't sing
It just confuses me because she was willing to take criticism for her lack of dance skills in PD 48 and IZONE and improved to dramatically since joining HYBE. But why can't she apply the same mindset to her vocals? Because it clearly shows she has the inital and potential to take criticism and improve. My theory is the when it comes to vocals, HYBE coddles the entire company. When it comes to dancing, they're very severe, strict and detail orientated.
But when it comes to vocals its like they always make excuse and dont try to push their idols to improve. Like if anything, many idols under them have vocally regressed. They just accept that they're bad or unpolished and just leave it at that. That's why Sakura just thinks shes beyond saving. If they just stopped coddling her and everyone else vocally and were more stern with how they should sound, it would stop the stupid victim mentality and force them to grow.
Remember how Yujin literally burst into tears back stage because she was half a second behind everyone else in the Fearless performance? They need that kind of perfectionism in their vocals. I think they see vocals as this optional thing that they dont really have to get good at and develop anxiety for
Frankly, i pity Sakura for her obvious anxiety about singing. But at the same time, i don't exactly feel bad for her situation. While i don't like the bullying she received, i can't help but understand the frustration people have with her. Sakura is an adult. She entered the kpop industry as an adult. She know the standard that was expected of her since her produce 48 days. And yet, she got to debut with so little skills. Yes she a good dancer and somewhat decent performer (she was better before, but because of her lack of confidence she got worse), but she an idol. Not a dancer. I don't expect her to sing Mariah carey notes. Heck i don't expect her to sing any hard song at all. But the fact she cant even sing 2 simple line of leesafarim simple discography without a panic attack is very concerning. And frustrating. In my eyes, she took away someone else place and chance to debut. I am not blaming her 100% since it hybe decision at the end of the day, but she also not a child in a desperate situation. But since she already in the group, i hope she improve and regain her confidence.
I completely agree with you. People are not expecting some Beyoncé type of performance, just the bare minimum of singing decently while dancing, even if it means sacrificing a bit the choreo to catch up the vocals.
And a good example is IVE. It's obvious that they don't have the best vocal abilities while dancing BUT they have proven multiple times that they can sing while performing without sounding suffocated or terribly off key even if that means toning down the choreo when it's their time to sing, and people praise them for pushing their limits and improving their weaknesses every comeback, not for sounding perfect while dancing and moving (because they don't)
The company needs to hire better mentors, because how tf is your response to the very valid criticism they got (not the hate) releasing a documentary on how bad you suffer because you can't do your job????
@@tnlkb6115 i agree 100%
Legit feel like she got worse, She seem scared like hell on stage now, she did fine in izone and the 48 groups she shouldnt struggle like that with the few lines they give her, feel like she would do bad with her own lines from her previous group if required to perform them again
@@axelt6312 I feel like it’s truly because she knows there’s more demanded of her now that shes in lower numbered group, aka there’s no one to hide behind anymore.
also it feels like they took a spot in coachella. plenty of other girl groups with good live vocals and they chose le sserafim who barely could sing live?
Your video makes me love Wonyoung and Leeseo even more. Wonyoung got hates just by breathing, but she never complains/whines/cries. She continues behaving the same while silently working to improve her skills. Leeseo's improvement is also outstanding. I love that they don't try to gain pity.
That isn't a good thing, idols should 1000% be able to express their emotions. You guys are obsessed with them being perfect little toys who you get to do and say anything to and they have to take it and not show humanity. People cry, they get upset and sad and if you bothered to digest the docu, Sakura was mostly upset with herself and the "criticism" has long veered over into pure hatred so yes she should be able to talk about it instead of allowing losers to bully idols unchecked.
I'm so proud of them
heavy on wonyoung because she was hated like crazy even during iz*one days and it got worst when she redebuted in ive. but she was/is nonchalant and continues improving herself silently to silence the haters. she truly is someone respectable.
@@dahliaj did we watch the same video or did you just come here to comment? sakura cried for the exact same reason she cried 2 years ago, meaning there was little to no improvement made in the span of 2 years. and source music shot her in the foot by including the clip of her crying over her lack of vocal skills. even IF wonyoung cried because of the hate, starship was smart to not film and air it because their PR team knows that it would be used against her/would worsen the hate towards her. please watch the video if you didn't.
edit: didn't she also write that fuckass paragraph on weverse? i felt bad at first, but all that sympathy dissipated the moment i read that weverse post. she has no intentions of improving and continues making excuses for herself like "we tried our best" and "everyone has different standards".
Momo of Twice also gets a lot of critisisam about her vocals. The worst was during the more and more era. I think she only talked about it once.
I don't really remember Jyp giving Twice a documentary for their fanbase to see why happens behind the scenes.
Like I'm pretty sure Momo has been deeply affected as well
@@dharling97 I dont know if it was a documentary. I think it was during one of twice's reality shows. I remember seeing news articles about it.
@@dharling97 Momo is kinda of a intresting situation. She is the main dancer (and she excels at that) and support singer/rapper.
If you look back at clips of 16, the reality show that formed twice, Momo's voice was not as high pich, witch leads a lot of people to beleive that she is being ask to sing a diffrent tone, than her natrual one and that is why she strugles so much.
@@dharling97and this is one other reasons her hate train died down, there was no material for the haters and since she's a rapper in a 9 member group it is easier for her
@@taylordesouza7
Yes, being in such a big group makes it easier to not having so much focus on her while she slowly improve.
I also think Garam having to leave LeSserafim was very bad for the overall group.
Garam was clearly one of the lead vocalists within the group and taking her out means the other had to step up quicker than they were ready for.
Because lets be real, with how quick kpopies disregard "older" idols, Sakura didn't have that long.
If Garam was still there, Sakura could have comfortably improved in the background just like Momo.
But yeah, 100% Jyp is having Momo sing in a different voice.
Like I'm not an overall fan of Alcohol Free, however Momo sings so differently, I have a suspicion that it's her normal singing voice, and it's probably my all time favorite lines of her.
She sounded SOOOO good!!!
Sakura has been in the industry for a very long time and the fact that her vocal abilities are behind her juniors is disappointing. Not only is her company babying her but I think they lack to discipline her. Telling her she’s giving “120%” when she clearly not is not going to help her or her singing career. She needs to take a step back and double down on her vocal lessons. On top of that I feel like source music fails to give the girls lines that are in their vocal ranges. The pity parties with the lack of effort is weighing down her and the group image. I feel like the whole group needs to take a step back and regroup because they’re only damaging their image and the fact that source music is letting this happen is beyond me
100% for crocheting 20% for vocal lesson 😊, she is indeed hardworking
@@Zlkcll your a fan
@@Thatgirl_bri89 EXACTLY
AESPA and IVE have done exactly what LESSERAFIM should do 😭
For one Aespa has been dragged through the dirt back in 2021 for having little to no stage presence and synchronization and their response was incredible they improved so much you can’t even tell it’s the same group
Same with Ive and their live singing
Sakura needs to grow tf up she’s been in the music industry for 13 years that’s the same/close age to some idols currently who beat her skill wise in everything any normal Grown women would get fired instantly for not doing her job well aswell as refusing to improve on it
Yes, I'm so proud of IVE for improving their live singing!
yawn jp and kr same training about idols right? lol
@@hannme22 😂😂 are you serious? You seem to know nothing about kpop, especially its training system compared to jpop.
@@ghkdwls360 thats why im asking right? OP saying sakura idol for 13yrs so u know how training system in jpop. even in izone she didnt have proper training not saying sakura is good singer but lets be real she is not main vocalist. yes she need improvement but wat do u expect she is not excelent singer she a great performer compare to what she is on izone.
like kpop is not about vocal only. dance fanservice contents etc. like if we are being real if kpop stans really care about vocal then why not just stan a vocal group? anyone have different preference they like. kpop is not that deep like the group that u like if u dont like why hate and have a energy to check a group u didnt like in first place. critism is fine but harrasment is not.
Sakura has failed to see the privileged position she’s in that she has seemingly stopped trying to improve her craft. Her vocals have not improved as much as it should for a person 6 years into her K-Pop career.
Mark Lee is a great example of basically starting from zero and working hard to improve your craft.
Nobody is asking Sakura to be Mariah Carey but the level of vocals she’s displayed is below the standard for a person in her position.
At the end of the day however, most of the blame should fall on the company for failing to prepare these girls.
Wasn't it literally during vocal training that she expressed her frustration hardship and sadness??
I have a suspicion that Sakura might have vocal damage and some types are permanent so maybe that is at play.
No she is part of the blame too, bts members took vocal lessons whenever needed because they left like they lacked, seungmin from skz is also someone who takes vocal lessons in his free time...
So yes sakura takes part of the blame too..
@@brianlittrell797 I think it’s that or she regressed with it being called ‘improvement’. Her voice is now audible but she sounded more pleasant in her IZ*ONE days even with her pitch issues and with how it sounded like she was almost always whispering.
@@yassin9782 Singing incorrectly can damage the vocal cords and I suspect Sakura has never had proper vocal training. Let's hope it isn't permanent, but HYBE isn't going to help her properly so it is up to her.
And NO she’s not just a girl she’s a literal grown woman.
@@EvieRisa YES. That part
The "Cherflix" is cheeky and adorable. Your vids give me hope that critical thinking and evidence based criticism isn't dead
At this point I bet Garam and the girl who was switched out last second kinda feel like they dodged a bullet. Source and Sakura are dragging the group down by refusing to change how they're handling this.
Edit: This is by no means saying that Garam should have been kicked from the group but looking at how many "scandals" the groul has been caught in recently well...
Honestly it would have gotten worse if Garam had been in the group, cuz her bullying scandal would have been brought up.
I don't even think Garam would be hated. Like no one is talking about Kazuha.
@@fearnot_jeansThat’s because she has stayed silent in all of this. You can also see some improvement in her skills, as minor as they are.
Her outstanding dancing skills also shield Kazuha. K-pop fans are more tolerant of dancers because they still contribute to the group instead of dragging it down.
@@quoriquora5327 No one is talking about Kazuha cause she isn't even problematic and has done nothing wrong. And also people acknowledge she had always wanted to be a trainee but Hybe put her in the debut team
@@fearnot_jeansNone of the members of lesserafim are "problematic" as far as we know
Thank you for the video! I totally agree as a wizone since pd48 era. I think sakura is used to getting ahead without much talent. I know shes very charismatic but even in pd48 she got all opportunities even though she was one of the weakest talent wise. I truly believe if she takes it to heart she can truly start again vocal wise and really TRY
I wanna highly the getting used to getting ahead without much talent part cus I been saying this
Izone set her up for failure cus the bigger the group is, the less likely the members lacking tend to improve. Sakura is an example of this.
the thing is sakura needs to improve her vocals. but at the end of the day, with the amount of hate she is receiving about it, it will get frustrating. She probably felt as though no matter how much she tries she'll probably still get bashed on, and anyone would have cried in her position
Ive felt the same gurl, it's her freaking job, she should get a grip, get backstage practice and shut them up that's how it works
But the lack of improvement either shows she doesn't care about her job as a singer, but the love, praise, and money she gets from it, or that she's a lost case. These are deal-breakers in the music industry, and her stubbornness to improve or step down to focus on doing what she's good at( an influencer who connects really well with her audience) makes her look incredibly inconsiderate of her fans and teammates. Lesserafim has 5 members, they can't have the most experienced idol be the one who constantly embarrasses herself and her team both in performance and response to criticism. Her fans also want to hear her sing in the tracks. They deserve her very best performances because all they have been giving her is unconditional love and support, despite her very evident flaws.
Yeah I’ve noticed Sakura is more sensitive and that’s ok. Some people are different not everyone is going to be able to handle the hate. She is clearly overwhelmed by such a huge amount of hatred.
@@ahuman3064
She is swown multiple time practicing her vocals in the documentaries thought. Isn’t this a proof that she tries to better herself?
@@beinji4885 You're falling for the PR stunt. If she is complaining about the same thing she complained about 2 years ago and didn't show any improvement, is she really bettering herself? Trying gets you nowhere if you're not going to the source of the problem and that is what she needs. A vocal coach that is clear in wanting to help her improve and tell her what are the issues and where to change, not someone to pat her head because she started crying. She needs to check her mental health and change her mindset and get back in the studio.
disclaimer - I LIKE LE SSERAFIM OVERALL despite my critiques but i am WORRIED about the girls' level of emotional maturity. some of these conversations are almost childlike and it's scary to me. NOT HATE, btw. btw this is NOT about them showing emotion - that is good. it's the way things are discussed
can you explain what you mean?
@@expensivepink7 Not really, for example they talk about finding true happiness
i mean a lot of idols probably act worse, it's probably behind closed doors though. most of the idols nowadays go into training in their early teenage years so it wouldn't surprise me if they developed with home school kid levels of maturity.
the whole documentary is an emotional/mental manipulation, literally guilt tripping instead of taking vocal lessons
and u are guilty
@@hannme22 oh dont blame me for your favs bad vocals
@@Daiyodo yeah just yapping but didnt watch the documentary lol
@@hannme22 what watching the documentary change?
@@Daiyodo u giving opinion for something u didnt watch? lol
Sakura could show her struggling but also improving after accepting the criticism. Doing pity party is only going to make haters feel more powerful and happy. It will make them feel like they have control and that their hate is working. Not saying that idols cant cry, they can but not to a group of haters who are waiting to prey upon you. Im sure leeseo might have bementally and emotionally affected by the hate she got, but she slapped back to haters by not feeding into it and proving them wrong.
Same with wonyoung. She never ever feeds her haters. Instead she acts unbothered in front of camera which riles up the haters cause they know that their hate is not getting to her.
Source music is also at fault for uploading this doc without realizing the internet culture especially the kpop stans.
We tend to forget one thing as fans. The documentary of Lesserafim proved again that not only haters caused the girlies to be in this state.
SOME Fearnots kept comparing them with their colleagues like IVE, NMIXX... etc. calling them untalented and bullying other fandoms which means every other fandom were actually waiting for the things they said like "Yunjin clears all your Vocalist" or "Sakura is good for someone coming out from Japan/J-Pop" and once all of that bragging wasn't real, it backfired.
It's true that in 2022, Lesserafim were part of the few girl grouo that sang live, but their vocals never were on point, but Fearnots and hybe kept pushing them.
Yunjin's words saying she wanted to change the industry were twisted by her own fans and even her talent (she's not an opera singer). They kept saying she would or she is when, in fact, she just began. How can she when her "family" is not letting her the time to and are already shoving her name in every people's mouth. Like the : "At Lesserafim can sing live".
It clearly came back to them cause every other girl group actually sang live better than them : Ive at Lollapalooza, for example. And Lesserafim played the victim cards with apology and middle finger on stories cause they know how dumb fans are and it's not first time that everytime Lesserafim are in a controversy, fans defend them and five days later, Lesserafim use the same made up excuse to base on and say "do not judge" when their actions are more than simply problematic.
They just don't care. And they learned how to not care. Hybe is to blame even more. Those girls are/were not good mentally even though Hybe and their fans claim that they have a therapist and psychologist on site. They used their pain as content for pity even though it looks like those girls are showing signs of imposter syndrome feeling ungrateful and unworthy.
Hybe is acting all nice by saying "you can stop if you're tired, don't push yourself" when in fact, those girls spent years with Hybe toxic management so it's not in their genes anymore to sop when they are tired. Those girls starved themselves too under Hybe's management. They clearly were made to not say no or not or feel like a disappointment.
Hybe debuted those girls only with 4 months of training as a group, when usually groups take 2 years to train and figure out what sound is best for them. It's good we share a light on haters cause some of them really want to end Lesserafim, but at the end of the day, Hybe and Fearnots have more influence on those girls than anyone else. They are the one who make think Eunchae will be ugly in a few years, not the contrary. The documentary was a media play, and the excuse they had was the previous documentary they made for antifragile.
But where was the red line ? What did we learn about the documentary? Where were Kazuha and Chaewon in the documentary? What makes them different from other idols ? Cause we literally learned nothing from it, and Lesserafim will be the first victim and first one to suffer the hate train.
What a well done summarize what i've been thinking too.. especially when you're their fans, you know more about them...
I'm seeing from the perspective of casual listener, how source and hybe trying to solve all these really bad..
Yes they should sue for the people who throw threats here and there.. but if these about your main job as a singer to sing, i think you should just man up and say sorry for the mistake then trying hard to improve...
Why shoving a pity party like these that can be weaponize by haters..
This is actually the true words "do not babying your idol", this one when they make mistake, they should've solved it, not excuse them... It will be hard for the people who support and love them, constantly getting mocked and harass.
And what if there's more problem in the future, are they going to use the same method? 😂..
Especially to sakura, she's the oldest and have more experience, these thing will be brought up if she's not improving.. if she said already worked hard 110% then work more until 200%...
Btw I hope you have a great day and this controversy will finally being resolved...
Sakura signed with Hybe even before Gfriend was disbanded, they trained for more than 4 months maybe they trained 4 months with SoMu but that group was under making for at least a year before their debut.
@@belaytriks The point is that as a group they barely trained together. Garam here first (maybe as an OG somu trainee). S and C joined in August 2021, same with yunjin. Ok that’s almost a year but the rest ? Kazuha came in DECEMBER 2021 IN SS and Eunchae shortly after her so December/January. They debuted in may 2022 and a debut doesn’t happen in 2 months + They were already preparing their debut song (so not trainee anymore but in the final debut line up) when the last two joined. = less than 4 months as actual trainees all together.
Compare it with let’s say IVE
W and Y went back to Starship in march 2021 and those two, unlike Sakura and chaewon, have been together since pre IZ*ONE (2017). Rei and Liz were already used to each other as trainee since 2019 along with leeseo (2019) and gaeul trained with W and Y for a while (2017). All already signed under the same company way before IVE debuted + those 4 were pre picked for when W and Y would come back so they could start directly. They weren’t added in from a different company 3 months before preparing for their debut.
Does that make sense? Lmaooo I feel like it’s confusing
@@リリ-p4vIt makes so much sense and personally i even think the lineup was made and trained way before March 2021 when the members weren't doing public activities especially with the COVID 19 and Izone Break.
@@リリ-p4v I get it but it is irrelevant. It does not matter if they had zero training time together before starting to work together because that excuse is used to justify their lack of skills. They were suppoused to have already the skills so that is wht they were choiced to debut and here they have to make the group work because the moment they are choosen they become "professional" and it is part of their job to make it work.
i completely agree. tbh it's kinda sad to see fans be like "look what you've done", etc, even though clearly the documentary was a tactic to make everyone feel bad, while avoidind fixing the problem. and everyone is falling for it, apologizing to lessera and blaming everyone who said atleast one word of criticism.
i wouldn't be surprised if the hate and criticism come back the next comeback if lesserafim dont change and improve in the places they lack.
but sakura was praised in coachella though u guys jump anyhthing for hate lol
At this point, hybe is taking advantage of the situation. Idols getting hate creates loyal sympathetic fans who will support and defend their idols no matter what. Sakura and hybe are using the hate to feed the sympathy of her loyal simps and continue worshipping her.
They are doing the same thing it happened to BTS and think this will work on every single group. However, it just creates a toxic environment where the companies can get away with spending as less money possible training them and have a fanbase to defend their idols.
Sakura isn't capable of a huge improvement anymore. I think having skipped all opportunities to improve while her vocal chords were still in development, now in her mid-twenties, she has hit her ceiling as a singer. This sounds a bit like I'm hating on her for being talentless, or the opposite, that I'm making up excuses for her. But I've seen countless of J-idols who debuted basically tone deaf and having no control over their vocals at the age of 13, and all they could do by 25 is hit notes and be somewhat stable live. I guess a good technique can still be learnt, and I believe she can become a bit more stable live as long as she sings in her range. I just hope fans see this realistically and don't except her to start belting out notes, because that's never gonna happen. For her, hitting notes and being stable is the goal.
That isn’t based in an scientific truth whatsoever. Learning to sing in her 20’s would be easier than for those 13 year olds, cause when you’re that young your voice hasn’t developed yet. All little kids voices are the same, ie. kids don’t have much range in the capability of their voices. Those 13 year old j-idols being bad singers at 25 has nothing to do with age and everything to do with improper technique and lack of proper training. Sakura, with a good teacher, could easily learn to belt like one of the best.
@@lovelypanda8676 Not a hater but I think she reached her limits on vocals and she knows it, she kept crying because she knows she can’t offer much in vocal skills. In this documentary she kept saying, “I will become better, I want to be the best” but in reality she is facing a wall which is the absence of talent.
@@nataliacaminda8013I'd say Sakura reached her limit in that she can no longer skirt by on just charisma and personality alone anymore. She needs to develop her skills.
Dancing, especially in kpop you can brute force your way into improving quickly. But singing is a whole different ballpark ESPECIALLY if u are tone deaf or not a good singer starting out.
And based on the clip with her vocal coach, it doesn't seem like she is getting effective proper training either.
I can see her being frustrated with the lack of/slow improvement in that case.
But improving on vocals takes time. It's a slow process but with proper training she can succeed. It's all about investing in the long haul and good technique.
If Sakura genuinely had a medical reason for why she can't sing like vocal nodules, do you not think that she and Hybe would have mentioned it a hundred times in the documentary to garner more sympathy? Let's be honest with ourselves. She can't sing. She has no vocal foundation for it, and Hybe seemingly has no intention of building it.
She doesn't even know what brighter tone means. The trainer is either doing half-heartedly, or she is just pure unprofessional. Sakura is literally gaslighted.
This is legit one of the biggests issue for Kpop groups like Le Sserafim. They only have two compatent vocalists and only one of them has proper pop training. Thus those two members are forced to carry the burden of all of the tough lines. That's why it is unsurpising that Le Sserafim strugggled so much at Coachella. Yunjin and Chaewon are forced to make up for the others shortcomings. They are also the best performers of the group and get a lot of dance and center time. The songs were designed to be sung by 5/6 members, yet two members are forced to sing and dance the entire song with no vocal reprive or support. Under that condition I'm surprised Coachella wasn't worse.
It’s just crazy how she was even picked to be in the group with such little talent and lack of singing. Her face and popularity got her in and it just shows how unfair life can be. There’s numerous trainees who should’ve been in her place
New flash most idols and even from sm arent the best but in the entertainment world talent dose mean success you have to have star potienal
THIS IS WHY I LOVE EVERGLOW she's not afraid to critics an idols but she doesn't in way that is generally trying to help the idol and giving cronstructive critism rather the personally attacking them in a childish way. AND SHE USED AN EXAMPLE Leeseo some with only 3 in the indstury comparied to sakura who has had 13 understood what needed to be don't and delt with it in the best way possible. SAKURA NEEDS A REALITY CHECK SERIOUSLY
💯
Exactly
Oh ! That’s-
But still, challenge what you believe
If we view it in different angle, it might have been the timing SouMu did, which is not the best move. BUT if this keeps going and it still shows, well it’s safe to say that she really need some introspection(and it’s better to do it early as possible). At the end, it’s all on Sakura beyond the company profiting the situation(that made it worse).
Last year I followed a 6 months course for performers, there was this one girl who was terrible at singing! (She was mainly a dancer) She lacked all the basics and had some really bad habits; at first when people told her she couldn’t sing like that she went to the defensive, but with time she started accepting what people kept on telling her and by the end of the 6 months the improvement was UNBELIEVABLE. She did not become Beyoncé but she got everything down and was able to pull off such an amazing performance!!
The moral of the story is: Somebody get this girl and ACTUAL vocal teacher and you’ll see what she can do. As basic and banal as that may be.
As someone who has both self-taught themselves and have worked with voice coaches, I feel that my opinion may help with some of the criticisms about Sakura's vocals.
First off, yes, it is quite possible that a person who has been in the idol industry for 10 years can have less than impressive vocals. To tell you the truth, these companies that are meant to push out these amazing trainees who are well-versed in entertainment don't do a good job of it. This issue was especially prevalent in the older generations of nugu kpop groups. In the vocal training technicalities especially, their methods differ from company to company, and are inconsistent between different vocal coaches. Sakura, as well as a whole other handful of idols before 3rd gen, are a result of these inconsistencies. These people are NOT vocally trained optimally. In Sakura's case, I can tell that she has 0 understanding of how to project and sustain a note, which is a telltale sign of vocal coaches not teaching a student about the mechanisms of the oral cavity. These idols are MADE and COERCED to sound a certain way, leaving their natural vocal tones unexplored, and the student simply mimicking the sounds a vocal coach wants them to make. Now, for a lot of people who have a talent for the art of singing, they do not need such a deep background in vocalization, but in Sakura's case, she unfortunately does not have that. While we may not be sure that all people can learn how to sing, what we DO know is that some have a leg up than others. SM ent. is the best at vocal teaching by a humongous mile, meaning that, in my opinion, other companies have a devastatingly terrible model for vocal teaching (instead, they simply let trainees who are already self-taught have a higher chance to debut instead). It is also important to note that in those 10 years that Sakura had, only the tail-end of that timeline was when people started expecting her to sound as good as her younger peers. It is wholly possible that a vocal coach wasn't always present to consistently work together with her on her voice until now. The Leeseo comparison only proves that the vocal training in the newer generations have improved over time.
Second, while it is true that Sakura needs improvement in her vocals, it shouldn't be the end all be all of her career as an idol. The job of a kpop idol is multifaceted. While a lot of newgens expect all idols to be aces, that expectation is unrealistic. Some idols are better at specific jobs, and that should be respected. It's why positions exist. It's clear that Sakura worked most on her dancing skills, which implies that it is something she wants to hone to make up for her weaknesses as a vocalist. I've seen a lot of "A kpop idol who can't sing??? Well, what about a chef who can't cook!", and I fervently disagree with the analogy and others like it, because again, the job of an idol is varied. Up until now, it was widely accepted that an idol need not be a jack of all trades and I'm not quite sure what made the public think otherwise so quickly.
Third, let the girl cry. She's a human being with the capacity to not be good at things. She's allowed to be frustrated when she can't quite understand something that others understand naturally. She's allowed to be frustrated that she wasn't born with a talent that others want her to have. Do I think the documentary is manipulative for showing scenes of her crying? Yes. Do we then get to downplay what she's feeling? No.
Being a Japanese idol is not the same as being a Korean idol. The only thing similar between them is the word 'idol'
@@andrewpelham1269 Are you saying I confused the two? Or...
She's been an idol for 14 years. Going back 10 takes her to when she joined AKB48, prior to that she was a part of HKT48, which she joined in 2011.
The Japanese idol setup is markedly different than the Korean setup. In particular, they do not focus on or emphasize singing. Their primary concept is "Idols you can meet", they emphasize image, attractiveness, and personality.
The training between the two types is markedly different, as are the expectations of their fans.
Saying Sakura has been an idol for 10 years is technically correct, but it ignores the differences between the two philosophies behind them.
i need more people to think about ur second point like why are people so adamant about forcing a position on a member who very obviously does not specialize in that area 😭
@@andrewpelham1269 Ahh, thats a good point asw
I dont follow the behind-the-scenes of kpop too closely, so it's nice to see this conversation framed against other examples like illit and ive that I otherwise wouldn't've known about. It's helpful to see examples of what improvement in this area looks like, and what kind of output people might've been expecting from Sakura.
This is probably the clearest and most substantial way I've seen this end of the argument presented, so good job!
sometimes I think that somu is lesserafim's biggest hater... like why would they make so much bad decisions and throw those girls under the bus?? It doesn't make sense to me at all
Like why would they let Yunjin says i want to change the industry knowing their fans will shove it into every one's mouth
@@fearnot_jeans EXACTLY
@peppa_111 what do you think wanna means ?
They just want to rush things and get a profit from it, acting like they had been a good company for almost decade.
They probably want a hate train and more attention, the more haters you are, the more you get talked about. But the thing is, their hate is mixed with criticism and instead of making them get more attention, the fans will get tired of seeing no improvement and defending them from the truth, making them less popular and lose followers instead of gaining
Please make Rosé Olympics ❤❤
I'm just going to vent, so, I apologise already.
One thing that particularly pisses me off about defensive fans is the way they act like this isn't their job. Being an idol is their JOB! Anyone else, if they had this attitude in their job, they would have been fired long ago! Hell, even in school or college, you don't pass or are granted awards if you don't put effort and work into what you're doing. If I slack off on my studies and do a poor performance, guess who's going to be failing and needing to repeat the class? We accept this for every job, but when it comes to idols, I feel like people forget that this is their job. Their job is to be a singer, a dancer and a performer. They don't have to excel in everything, HELL, they don't have to be good, but they have to be enjoyable. They have to show work ethic and willingness to improve.
And don't talk about anxiety, because, although I understand that it can be crippling (been there and still am sometimes), it's no excuse for you to slack off in your job. It's your responsibility to search for help and to set yourself for success. It's what every person who isn't a celebrity has to do to be able to go through life. Other people don't have to coddle you because of your anxiety. Of course, your friends and family should be helpful, but, at the end of the day, it's your responsibility to manage it and to be able to fulfil your role. Your colleagues, your employer and, in this case, your fans, should not have to coddle you.
leeseo is way younger than sakura and she just fixed whatever was being criticized about her while older woman with years of singing career is still crying and not giving any improvement im honestly still waiting for sakuras rise i hope she finally acknowledges the problem instead of crying shes a grown ahh woman
She did improve, she is not the most consistent because her main problem is nerves. An amazing singer is still going to sound bad if they're nervous confidence is half the battle, she never made excuses for herself she just cried because she's upset WITH herself. You are delulu if you think your favs havent.
Love your mention of Eunchae's stans as one of the sources of hatred towards Leeseo. As both a DIVE and a FEARNOT, this origin of hate towards her is ridiculous and irrational.
💀 ima need to y’all to actually think for sec I’m not going to say eunchae Stan’s aren’t completely free because some of them were hating but most of it was the kpop community who were hating on lesso mys,bunnies,stays,fearnots,etc and more groups fans were using eunchae to make lesso seem bad and people were liking eunchae at the time becuase she was refreshing for the kpop community I’ve was the most hated group in 2022 in my opinion kpop Stan’s never take accountability for hating or had any consequence and blame a specific fandom when in reality it was a everyone as whole joining in one ex recently is suga y’all will go with hating on someone if someone starts to hate on them kpop Stan’s can’t actually thing for themselves there like sheep’s following what else do
Can I ask what you are studying cause you are so wise, how you deliver your sentences or how you make people understand you with your words its justttt wow
I am always in awe and i learn a lot from you
Business Administration, and thank you, the wisdom just comes from my mom, and my best friend who gave me her feedback on the script. 🎀🩷
No offense I would say she’s isn’t wise more logical and can form her own opinions based on common sense but it becuase most of kpop fans aren’t the smartest people in the world by the way the act in person online
21:06 100% agree with this, she doesnt need someone like the current vocal coach to coddle her, frankly their vocal coach is the only one ive seen amongst other hybe documentaries who is like this. pop star academy for example, their coaches tell them exactly what and how to improve it. sakura needs basic vocal training, and it's honestly confusing as to why she isnt improving because we know how hard working this girl is.
I'll start a riot if we don't get the last ep of the BP Olympics, when the literal Olympics is about to end 😭😭
I'm working on it don't you worry 😂😂
Yes I'm also waiting for this.
who in the fuck in that company told bangpd that empathy fishing would work? like no, posting your idol's vulnerable moments won't bury the fact that they can't sing especially Sakura. BE FR SHE'S BEEN AN IDOL FOR YEARS. and if you're gonna use the "But Japanese idols have different range" bullshit, she already debuted as a kpop idol. and for some reason Chaewon downgraded ever since I*zone's debut. and instead of actually training the girls, they're just like "Hey, the girls are crying stop bullying haha". did anyone in that goddamn company stops the meeting and says "I don't think that's gonna work"???? it's like they just wanna stop the bullying and release a new song already. this company lost its grace. before they perfect their craft but now it's turning to a shit show
The Japanese idol thing falls very flat when you realize that there are groups like XG that exist also groups from avex in general that argument mostly apply to groups from Johnnie's, if not most jpop groups can actually sing decently well.
@@Correctgistlover and Sakura's range after iz*one isn't even that deep compared to her range during iz*one. so idk why fearnots use it as an excuse. and if she's "forced" to sing in a higher range in Japan, wouldn't that make her good at adjusting her voice when singing?
I really hate how source music and Sakura are trying to diminish the hatred. “So you don't sing? we will give you less lines so that people will have less to complain about”.
it always amazes me how these problems and solutions/improvements seem so obvious to everyone except companies, artists, and ofc (toxic) overly biased fans, and no one is batting an eye to handle this situation correctly and fix the actual problems.
I can't think of the Kdrama title but there was a show that centered around the importance of PR teams in k entertainment, showcasing EVERY POINT YOU expertly hit! How PR TEAMS ARE WHAT REALLY BREAK OR MAKE A PERSON IN THE K-IDOL SCENE sorry not sorry it's not about talent but OBJECTIVE VEIW "it doesn't matter what the truth is it's more important how it's presented to us the removed party who take in ALL info about that idol and what she has SHOWN while ignoring criticism is WHY she NOW get's hate for what she can't do. Great vid, great examples and GREAT SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO🗣
Is it "imitation"?
If u remember the name please tell me cus that sounds interesting
@@AUGHHHHHBBG ithink its called imitation and its on rakuten viki i may be wrong th
In summary, Sakura need s a relality Check.
@@NeelBiswas-rv9dv So do the fans who are filled with negativity and hate and are attacking idols and people and calling it positive criticism. HYBE needs a reality check too.
@@brianlittrell797
Yes, it seems like people don’t now what constructive criticism is.
@@beinji4885 That's a part of it, and also being negative towards others helps them to feel better because they are in pain. They'll just never admit that they are. They might not even be consciously aware they are.
@@brianlittrell797 Real.
@@brianlittrell797 You should call out those fans who are quick to right off actually valid criticism as "hate" then.
Ok I think your problem is you're blaming sakura when the actual responsable about her singing issues is her company, I believe sakura is a hard worker who is trying to improve but she's not being given the actual tools for achieving that goal, like what are those classes she's receiving for vocal coaching in the doc? no actual vocal training, no actual excercises that could actually help her, no technique, I don't think it¿s her being "unprofessional" I think she is professional but her company is ruining her career and instead of teaching her they did the whole pity party but I don't think that's her fault...
As someone who has had vocal lessons for 1.5 years and still suck at singing i can confidently say some people just cant get better at vocals no matter how much they practice. I mean i did get better but i still dont sound as good as ACTUAL vocalists. Maybe Sakura is like this idk...
Exactly why I'm so confused why she pick the same job THREE TIMES in a row. All as singer, knowing well that she can't do it
But ... Didn't she already acknowledge her anxiety with singing during debut with lesserafim? Before the popularity sky rocketed. So I don't think it's right to say her anxiety started because of her "charms" not working anymore. It started because she recognized her flaws that the audience kept pointing out and realized no matter how much hard work she put in she cannot change that one aspect of herself. You believe she is pitying herself instead of trying her actual best to improve. I believe she tried her level best and the lack of acceptable improvement gave rise to anxiety which then led to the pity party. Not everyone can be wonyoung level of disinterested or unaffected with criticisms. Some are just ... Weaker. Food for bullies and critics' who believe in chewing out their lack of strength instead of empathising with their clear efforts. But then it's an entertainment industry and a cruel world. So I see why you would feel it's delusional to believe she can survive with the way she is. I am just going to believe that hard work does count for something ... Even if it won't make her sing like the experienced skilled singer everyone wants her to be, I wish that hard work will give her something to hold onto when the criticisms start making her hurt.
To be fair we wont see if she improved because she cant Perform how she wants
@@kurokurt5477 Yup. I think it's the classic case of suffering setbacks too many times that now the mere idea of trying at all pushes all her anxiety into overdrive.
Girl finally someone who see it the way I see it. I genuinely think she giving her all but people don't make the same progress. She has her own pace. I also don't see anything wrong with how she's handling the situation. We are not all mentally strong. I personally related a lot with her. All my life people (family, friends etc) have only pointed out my lack of skills/talent and I'm aware of it. So whenever I make mistakes, I hate myself even more for not even doing simple right. That's why I begin to give up pretty easily on things even if I like it. It's one of the reasons why I genuinely admire her. She knows she's not as talented as other idols but she still fighting for it. And those few times were she shows her weakness just makes me respect her even more. She's not hiding how all the criticisms affect her but at the end of it she's still standing. Maybe not in a cool way like people want her to be but in her own way
Yes, I agree with you. I think what Hybe should do now is that instead of giving her vocal lessions, they should make her go on hiatus, give her therapy sessions and the time to overcome her anxiety. As long she doesn't overcome her anxiety about singing, she won't be able to improve.
@@meilichankan9282 You get it. Thank you god someone gets it. It hurts a lot when you do make the effort but the lack of what others call acceptable skills makes people say stuff that just concludes that you never tried enough. She isn't whining complaining or victimising. She is just stating that she tried hard. As hard as she could.
I read a comment from one of AKB's performances in Korea that a member of AKB told Sakura to practice dancing, and they said she acted like she was bullied. She was only told to practice. 😅 Idk AKB lore, but that comment is something. 😅
PEOPLE She is not blaming Sakura for crying or feeling down for the massive hate she is receiving (Let's be honest some people are hating on her but using the "I'm criticizing" card)
Everglow-up is criticizing the company for their lack of awareness, they should now that this just comes as pitiful, and the least you want to feel about someone you should "admire" like a celebrity is pity, sympathy is not the same as pity.
Nah, it's definitely hating on Sakura. "I'm criticizing" is lazy cover.
@@JonathanDGoff
I did noticed it some parts while she’s also criticizing the company. It came of as mixed opinion but Cheryl was trying her best to deliver it strongly because both need to be acknowledge. At the end, time will reveal things but for now, it’s where she stands.
I think age also plays into sakuras “I’m just a girl” persona. Because before she really was just a girl, now she is an adult. As much as we play around with that phrase at the end of the day we all still know we are adults with responsibilities. However, it seems that she uses that as an excuse. She also failed to grow along with her audience. While that her older audience might still see her as just a girl, her new audience is her age or younger. They now think why can’t she grow and change while I’m here doing it all for free.
Love the PR breakdown, but especially love how you mentioned "Haters bully idols fully aware that it is actually affecting them. It's the reason they do it". The entirety of kpop fandoms are built around this notion irrespective of the group they support. Insane to me how most of these people intentionally want to mentally harm idols then cry for them when something extreme happens. The reason why I wish all kpop idols had more of that "How I am and what I do in my personal life does not concern you" type pf attitude.
Idk i feel like sakura really is trying but is genuinely scared, ive heard her sing well before she js isnt confident. Yes, she should get threapy, vocal classes and all that but i dont feel like SAKURA herself wants attention or an excuse to have bad vocals its the company, bc kpop idols are ALWAYS on camera, this is proof😭😭
I just found your channel after a while.
And I'd like to comment on their recent comeback, the difference between their choreography and their singing style on this EP is clear (apart from Yunjin and Chaewon, the rest of the members talk in a vocalized way that doesn't give them much room to go out of tune and they've decreased the intensity of the choreography when a member is singing and they're using lip sync more), the hate whether they like it or not has brought improvements to the group as a whole. I don't find Eunchae and Kazuha's tone pretty and I don't like this new style of music either, but you can't deny that the negative feedback has made the group a lot better.
If the comeback hadn't included that documentary, the reception would have been even more positive than it was for IVE.
@@camomilacommel frr
Thankyou because after seeing her cry in every episode it got tired very quick. Sakura needs improvement, not pity from fans/haters. It's the only way to solve this and I have no idea why Hybe is seemingly coddling her because in the long run it is only going to hurt her even more.
Honestly, I feel like sometimes we are a little too harsh on the female idols. Please don’t get me wrong I know that the K-pop companies are shitty at times but K-pop fans need to relax.
Now , I’ll talk about my point of view of the drama.
1. Source Music is really bad at marketing. I can totally understand that they were trying to silence the hate but the problem is that they did not release the documentary at the right time
2. Like I said it many times K-pop fans need to understand that the k-pop stars that we are following are humans not magical beings or angels so the community need to relax and to let the idols better themselves by giving actual criticism not hate
3. I watched the documentary and I know that the girls work hard and I am also aware that the documentary was filmed before Coachella but to the fearnots please hear me out, this was a really bad PR move on Somu behalf because Sakura was already getting attacked and drag from all the corners of the internet so instead of putting out this documentary Source music should have train the members and then let the public see that they improved.
4. Sakura is definitely allowed to cry because she is a human being but her fans need to recognize that she not on the same level than us and should I care about the actual criticism not the hate to better herself.
5. I have a deep problem with the documentary. I feel like the vocal is not doing her job . Because as a vocal coach her task is to deliver constructive criticism and point out the things that the girls are doing wrong where it comes to their technique and she was just praising them without never letting them know where they lacks. Hybe need to hire better vocal coaches for their artists.
5. I think that Hybe labels need to train their idols better to avoid these hate trains.
6. At the end of the day, I think that K-pop fans need to relax and to become more mature especially when it comes to the way that they deliver criticism because I know that some of you that will come as obvious but if you are saying like “ x idol is useless “ , “ x idol need to leave the industry “or “ x idol is a dozen “ it’s not criticism . It’s baseless comments and it’s hateful and even if I’m not a fearnot , when I am researching some K-pop videos to watch on UA-cam I often come across people saying those kind of things when it comes to Sakura and I think that you will agree with me if I say that it’s not criticism.
Anyways sorry for the long comment. But I needed to express my opinion on this.
Unlike Sakura, no male idol worked in the same field for years. Many male idols are not really good singers. However, they may sing like sub vocals.
I believe that some footage, such as those shot within buildings and recordings, are after coachella hate.
It is not as if Sakura can not cry like a normal person; that is not the point. People have witnessed her cry for bad vocals since producer 48 to now.
@@Asdfghjjjki mean she was on a dam survival show when dose someone not cry honestly it been months of so called critism becuase a lot you guys in this comment section we’re probably also staight harassing insead of actucally giving her vaild criticism lesserafim recently had a performace were they improve a lot and not one talks about instead about a topic that should have talked about a long time ago but it seems to me y’all can’t learn to ignore something that makes you straight up mad it really not that hard to ignore now I’m not saying criticism is bad but we’re almost already I. September and you guys are still talking about this
@@KyliePaz-f8s why are overreacting?? did you find me hating or har0ssing her anywhere?? Even here, did I say anything bad about her?
Just watch that show ,nobody would ever think she was an idol for years at that time. Her singing is bad in producer 48. Its not about crying. its about crying for same reason for yrs instead of improving.
Forget about that show Even she sobbed at the lesserfim show a few yrs ago for same singing reason, many people pitied her. did she improved after that show??no. here we go again.
Even now where did she improved?? kazuha improved. sakura still
singing same.
I remember during LSRFM's debut period people were whining about Sakura not getting enough lines, but from a producer point of view, i understand it, how are you going to give parts to someone who can't sing them? In their songs where she has 'a lot of lines', those lines just end up repeating over and over, so, no increase in singing difficulty.
How ironic that a group who sings of being anti fragile are so easily breaking when criticism regarding their talent (or lack thereof) has them react via video instead of hard work proving us wrong? Seems like they don’t even follow their own group’s theme.
most of these idols don't live up to the images they show, just like with itzy who had a self love concept and yet they cry when they receive hate and get plastic surgery, majority of idols are pretending to be someone they're not
I agree the editing has the intention of us feeling bad about her but I think it's pretty obvious that this is a part two of a series of documentaries they planned already. We will probably have another one in two years so I wouldn't say this was planned specifically to address the hate train.
I still like Sakura and I know she's not the most skilled singer but we all have the right to choose who we like. I don't care about her company at all because they're disgusting as most (if not all) companies but I do like her.
Edit: even tho I like her, I know she has much room to improve, one thing doesn't deny the other!
Lowkey i don't get it why sakura never ask wonyoung how to deal with hate train, etc. I mean they know each other, well obviously we don't know their interaction behind the scene but like come on, just use wonyoung's method. If sakura never ask wonyoung, well at least she can see a lots of wonyoung's mindset or words on the social media, it's not that hard especially when wonyoung is very easy to get viral
I mean these girls be busy with stuff. Wonyoung is always booked and lsfm is always booked. These girls busyyyy
@@AUGHHHHHBBG yeah i know that's why i said that why sakura didn't look from the social media like tiktoks or twitter. There are lots of viral videos, tweets about wonyoung's mindset. I'm not talking about wonyoungism cause it's fanmade, but words that actually really came from wonyoung. I'm not asking her to follow wonyoung's mindset fully 100% but at least maybe grab something from it? A small piece is fine you know. I just want her to at least able to survive her hate trains and show to the haters they are wrong
@@dks13nic no I got what u were saying the first time and I agree def. Wonyoung is great example of how to deal with hate correctly.
Wonyoung is a robot and always trying to be the "perfect idol." Sakura has always been wanting to show the struggles she faces.
@@JonathanDGoff wtf are you saying? This is kpop industry, kpop industry always have been disgusting, no one will see idol as human. Being the "perfect idol" maybe not the best way but at the same time it could be the best way. Look at sakura now, her trying to "show her human side" is backfired at her and now people calling her weak, ungrateful, princess disease, etc. Meanwhile other idols who has the same method as wonyoung's "perfect idol" able to survived. And funny how i already said that sakura doesn't need to follow wonyoung 100%, just a small tiny bit is fine and somehow you can't read that. What sakura need is just stay silent and just focusing on improving her vocal just like wonyoung.
It’s never too late to improve. Sakura could put some time to the side to improve on her vocals with HONEST vocal coaches who won’t succumb to her charms, show vulnerability in private, and become resilient like her peers. I had to learn that in college, and I’m still learning that right now. I remember that I was the worst painter in my art department and I cried for showing poor results like Sakura did. After I graduated, I practiced on my painting and drawing skills and not only I was satisfied with my end result, but everyone else was too. The point of constructive criticism is the for the mentioned person to do better to satisfy their audiences and themselves. It’s not easy, but as an idol- you have to give the people what they want so they can stay tuned with your music and your career. If Sakura can succeed like she did in her previous groups, then she can in this one IF she wants to see the results and to be up there with her contemporaries. Lovely video!
@@jamarcuscoley This! I recently graduated and was an art student, too, and my teacher emphasized a lot on drawing. She told us to practice every day. Our art teacher was tough on us because she wanted us to succeed. Hybe and the coach are extremely gaslighting her to the point that she is blaming herself. I doubt if it's an actual coach cause she didn't teach Sakura at all and was belittling her about confident issues.
@@Yo99753 I had the most toxic art teacher ever… she never had faith in me and always picked on me for being a weak drawer. I had to build myself up to prove that I am a good artist to her, and even though she hated my improvements, I had the guts to show my pride under tense pressure. I rather improve for myself than for a crowd who hates everything I do. I wish I was Sakura’s friend so I can tell her my experience and the lessons I learned from it.
To me, HYBE is a toxic company. You have a company that doesn’t listen to the feedback of fans- like we just want Sakura to succeed like her peers! I get that criticism hurts, but it’s coming from a place of concern… the LSRFM girls been under public scrutiny all this year and we just want a turnaround for them, especially Sakura.
17:10 On the topic of Queen Wonyoung and Sojang, didn’t Sojang also harass other idols? Wonyoung took her down and spared everyone else that headache, didn’t she?
Yes, she used to harass other idols as well. I think she used to have yt channel, but it must have been deleted.
@@Yo99753 Yeah, it was deleted once the lawsuit was concluded.
this video is useless, just straight up mean...
Literally so many of her video are very one sided/useless take she make look well rounded with poor argument and a good elocution
A women was being bullied for crying and she made a twenty minute video about how it was a bad marketing move like wtf? Is it really the most important thing in this situation?
moral of the story kpop companies needs to pick their idols wisely cuz at the end of the day. good voice is the first thing and idol should have
I usually agree with your points everglow up but I need to actually do your research because you said stuff that one is incorrect make assumptions or points based on things that aren’t even correct -from an avid viewer also crazy this gets more views than the min heejin videos
what incorrect stuff did I say?
Oh boyo I was there for the Coachella discourse, and I had a lot of people pissy at me for saying le sserafim (and their company) were in the wrong for their reaction. I don’t WANT to compare idol groups especially GG vs BG but because the only other Kpop group I cared about at Coachella was Ateez I reminded everyone how GOOD Ateez sounded. Objectively Ateez has harder choreo, they have some more vocally difficult songs, and they were for the most part going all in the entire time. Le sserafim was….kinda standing around and occasionally dancing or dancing at half capacity and STILL couldn’t manage it.
Now, Ateez used backing vocals 100% I will not deny that (unlike some fans) however they were all clearly heard over the supporting backup vocals and still had to hit notes in very difficult situations, which they did. I’m not sure if the lack of backups was le sserafim’s choice, their company’s, or a problem with the stage, but if you’re going to not do backup vocals in a high octane venue, with harsh winds, sand that will get into your throat, and just generally not GREAT conditions, you gotta make sure your voice is on par. Even Jongho, the king of 4th gen vocalists had to make sure his voice was in top shape. The day AFTER their first weekend, he went to a vocal coach instead of attending the festival because he had an opportunity to work with a highly sought after vocal coach, and because he said he felt he was lacking in places on his performance the night prior and wanted to work out those issues before the next week. I commend him for that because it’s recognizing that this isn’t just about being an idol and being famous, you have to WORK for it (no pun intended).
All I saw from le sserafim was a lacking performance and when folks complained, the girls just doubled down. They added the backing vocals the following week but made them too loud so you couldn’t hear them anymore. Now I didn’t expect them to get better in a week like some folks, so the damage control was needed, but I think the response was less than stellar.
For me though this situation boils down to a combination of le sserafim not being ready/being too young for Coachella because they did not have as much experience with festivals under their belt, and HYBE just….sending them. Idk if Coachella asked for le sserafim specifically or if they just asked for a group/artist and HYBE chose le sserafim. Regardless, if the former HYBE should have declined, and if the latter they should have sent a different group to perform. I love Ateez, I’ve been an atiny since 2020 and if Ateez had been invited in their first 2-3 years of their career I genuinely do not think we’d have gotten as good of a performance as we got. It might have still been good, and probably would have but genuinely, you need more experience before you can do something as big as Coachella and I’m glad they finally got the opportunity at the point they’re at in their career. But if by some miracle Coachella had Ateez on their radar and asked KQ to send them within their first few years I don’t know if that would have been as good as w think it could have been.
If you watch the entire Coachella show and not just the edited parts, you would see that Sakura was the most stable in her vocals, I'm sure that Sakura takes criticism of her vocals seriously, in my case I can see that Sakura stands out in several other positive points of an Idol, in my opinion she has the best stage presence of the entire group, her dancing skills improved a lot since when she was in the group Izone and in addition the girls from Le sserafim have great synchronization in their dance performances, As a fan, I wish that Sakura improves her vocals, not for me but for herself so that she can please the people who like her and expect this from her, I have faith in her dedication and her passion for being an Idol, I just hope that Hybe and Source Music gives you the tools and encourages you to become even better.
Whos gonna tell this girl that Ive arent the deities she thinks they r
they can still outsing sakura
@@FloptropicanPresidentShe is currently experiencing her toxic diva era. After the Bangchan video, we got this, lol. I don't why she is setting up her own favs like if something like this happens to any Ive members will she make a video on them too.
These youtubers should be grateful full to Sakura at least they are getting views because of her.
@@R.S-si5hu don't act like EGU never criticized ive. We literally have a video where she talks about Wonyoung stage presence an critics her stage presence
Everglowup trying not to bring up Wonyong or Ive every 3s :Level impossible.
She's in her toxic Dive era.When the fan fever comes down it's gonna be super embarrassing.
Or maybe ive was used as an example because they dealt with the same issue and used smarter tactics to avoid more hate... like why is everything being considered toxic, do you think before you type?
Or maybe ive was used as an example because they dealt with the same issue and used smarter tactics to avoid more hate... like why is everything being considered toxic, do you think before you type?
@@carrie_heart
She oversimplified the situation to make it fit her narrative. The lack of skills of Leeseo wasn't the main reason for her hate train and she still got backlash from her haters for reproducing the diveu incident. And while I am very happy that ive improved, the hate had already died down when they showed significent improvement so its not the reason that stopped the hate, and Ive never deserved such hate train in the first place, even for their skills.
Sakura was actually my bias when Le Sserafim just debuted because I have known her since Izone and she improved a lot in dancing. But her vocal is still disappointing. I think part of the blame lies in Hype though, because Yunjin and Chaewon's vocal ability also went down. Hype really should get them a better vocal teacher. Another thing is most of Le Sserafim's songs do not suit the members' vocal range. Rather trying to make cool music, Hype should give the girls song that suit them.
Cant anyone know the difference on criticism and delivering hate
We know the difference but thinking you will stop doing your job properly because of hate is being childish. And btw hate and criticism sound the same to fans (that's what I've noticed)
Navy SEALS have a motto: “No bad crews; only bad leaders.” This situation falls to the leader. C should have been on top of this. Same at BP - lack of leadership. Jisoo never learned English like all other idols, Jennie built no stamina and couldn’t remember choreo. No leadership = no accountability.
I would say no leadership= only the ones that want to improve will do it so according to their knowledge but the team might fall apart for lack of a commun goal. But I do not know anyone from militar background.
100% agree omg that’s why I don’t understand when a group doesn’t have a leader. Also C as in chaewon right ? If so you’re right as well but in her case being the leader and not being the oldest is tricky particularly when the member you need to monitor(?) lecture(?) for her poor skills is older AND has been here for 10+years… I mean 10years in you can’t tell me thoughts of getting a vocal teacher on your own has never, even once, crossed your mind years ago wtf
@@リリ-p4v Some groups that don't have leaders are because they are accountable by themselves or being made accountable by each other, their teamwork comes from helping each other instead of one person. But it also doesn't make much sense Chaewon not being able to do this even if she is not the oldest when other groups with leaders being either the 2nd/3rd oldest do well. Maybe she feels she isn't capable of saying anything to her since she's been in the industry longer? But also, they've been in the same group for 6 years and she asked her to come back to Korea and join her?
@@rosietales agree! take newjeans they don’t have a leader but all lead together and they are doing good like that! But some groups need leaders. Also yeah leaders aren’t the oldest all the time but if they aren’t then it’s usually the one who has been here the longest or just have that leadership attitude (jihyo, soyeon, yujin, haewon for example). In chaewon case she clearly doesn’t have those leadership qualities (only for now I hope) and on top of that having before her a member that has 12+ years experience AND is older makes it even harder. She probably doesn’t dare to criticize her or worse she probably did but not in a serious way. About the last part I don’t think it’s true it’s probably some PR type of sh1t again to make it sweet and stuff
I am sorry but the Jisoo part of this comment it's so ??? When her english level its at the same level or even higher than 70% of idols.
I feel like she should work on herself and prove herself not for others but for herself she's literally getting paid for this and as a person who studies psychology she's using public to gain "sympathy" for her weak vocals and painting critisism as hate .
I think there are two issues at hand regarding her singing. I'm saying this as a person taking great singing lessons for 3 years now. First is obviously HYBE/Source music. Clearly, their coaches are bad professionals. You don't see many artists under HYBE being vocally outstanding (except for PLEDIS groups, but they were vocally trained through PLEDIS before PLEDIS was linked to HYBE). In fact, lots of them are average at debut and worsen through time. As a person who has taken singing lessons for years, I surely can say that you simply do NOT improve drastically without good professional assistance. You can improve a little (Iroha's case), or think you are doing well by intuitively trying some type of technique that later is detrimental to your vocal chords (DREAMCATCHER Siyeon's case). That being said, Sakurs can't improve by herself, and her company doesn't want to help her either. BUT, here comes the second issue: Sakura.
Let me give you an example. Seungmin from Stray kids was nowhere near being a main-vocal-worthy singer when Woojin left the group, and JYPE didn't have good enough vocal coaches to guide him to do so. What did he do with his salary? Look for a decent vocal coach, put his whole effort to it and drastically improved. So did I.N. and Lee know. So did Chen of EXO (he used to sing in a harmful way for his voice and through guidance out of SM,he developed healthy technique). So did Baekhyun and so many more idols. Why doesn't she do the same with her money? It isn't like she's in a flopping girl group with debt on her shoulders. This attitude makes her look like she doesn't value her craft, just saying.
this is what ive been saying. hybe and source is framing this soooo wrong. thanks for putting a name to this as an emotional blackmail to avoid criticism. just focus on improving and showing the world you are above the criticism
ikr that hate trains are horrible and etc but yall cant just stop the hate. in internet, hate is everywhere and im pretty sure sakura knew that when decided to be a idol. she needs to learn how to ignore that hate comments and start to accept criticism and improve. her crying in a documentary won't magically stop the hate.
I saw one fan say that she likes their performances like that. That Sakura don't need vocals to be an idol.
I was like,WHAT?
The most frustrating thing abt this whole sakura thing for me is that this idols earn $$ every appearance they do yet being subpar is okay. Unlike any other career if u where to show up not being “competent” you’ll be losing your whole livelihood. Yet idols only get a slap on the wrist and a few hate trend from the internet (which you can actually ignore like fr put the phone down )
Which you can actually ignore is crazy statement to make becuase you do realize other idols probably gossip behind their backs you say that cause your not in that position of getting hate to make sounds like it nothing pretty tone deaf statement
Haters are really disrespectful & traumatizing. They arent giving criticism they are giving fear & trauma. Criticism are meant to be helpful & not degrading. Criticism should point the wrongs & then make a positive feedback not all full hate to the point your confidence is destroyed. These haters are fault finders. They can't even say Sakura improves, they keep desteoying her & not see the positive improvements.
Yh, no duh. It's like what Cheryl said, haters love knowing they can toy and control your emotions. Haters are gonna hate. What you mentioned was hate, not criticism. It's important that we pay no mind to Bullies because as soon as they realize that they cant affect us, they'll get bored. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't ignore the criticism that Sakura is facing, which is valid btw.
they getting u in twitter LMAOO
Who cares... Twitter sucks. The GG stans complaining are the same ppl that will bully IVE with no remorse all while having "Girl's girl' in their bio. They're not meant to be taken seriously lol.
In fact, The main reason why Sakura and LSM are even getting dragged is because their fandom's annoying and refuse to leave ppl alone. They attack every fandom under the sun yet love to play the victim.
I stan lesserafim and agree with everything. Same goes to everyone in the basic vocal department.
Also Hybe should give them easier choreography + Song for their vocal range to not overwork them to the point they don't have time to improve their vocal and hardly feeling content
Im not disagreeing with the point of the video but I cant help but frown at the comments on here that yet again attack sakura directly.. if u think eunchae yunjin or kazuhas vocals are any better than sakura you are totally deaf. Hybes lack of training and support for their trainees hit everyone in that group and will continue to be an issue for new groups, iroha traininh and working hard is great but she shouldnt have to do it herself in the first place?? Hybe doesnt make art, they make drama. Thats why they dgaf. This isnt a pr mistake, its a stunt
I think rather than thinking the other members are better vocalists than sakura, it's the fact that sakura has been an idol on and off for ten whole years. she shouldn't be on the same level as her members at all, it's quite literally unreal for her to be on par with kazuha and eunchae, who've only been idols during lesserafims run.
@@know-it-all-but-not-reallyright. Comparing a veteran to regular members is wild
@@know-it-all-but-not-really my point was that hybes standards are low because they have no passion or interest in making good music or training good singers, if sakura kazuha and eunchae need training and dont get it - the fans suffer in their concerts and their reputation is damaged. At the end of the day the result is the same for all 3 members regardless of their background. The problem needs to be solved eiher way
i feel like a lot of people have come up with long thinkpieces about the documentary with very VERY little understanding of the bigger picture. so i’ll clear up the misconceptions:
1. there is not a single second of footage in this documentary that took place after coachella. **not a single second of the girls’ reactions were a response to coachella.** nothing here has anything to do with coachella. this documentary was filmed over a year ago during unforgiven era, so the clip of sakura crying had absolutely nothing to do with her more recent backlash.
2. i’d also like to add that this documentary is a SEQUEL to another documentary that they had during debut called “the world is my oyster” (which showed similar content). that documentary was released after their debut fearless (first in their first trilogy) and a little before antifragile (next in their first trilogy). that was the documentary for their fearless/antifragile/unforgiven trilogy. now this next documentary, “make it look easy,” was released after easy (first in their second trilogy) and a little bit before their next comeback, crazy (next in their second trilogy). this documentary was released in a similar alignment to the comebacks as the first documentary was (sandwiched between the first two EPs in each trilogy, that is). **So no, the documentary was not timely dropped as a response to coachella either.** It was simply following the schedule which was predetermined for months.
3. So now we’ve established this documentary has nothing to do with their recent hate train. you have no evidence of the girls NOT taking steps to improve themselves either. I mean, the documentary itself showed both kazuha and sakura expressing expressing how they want to improve. There are SEVERAL clips of them practicing in the practice room, of them in the recording studio, there was even a whole part where sakura talked about how much she loves her job. there were several personal anecdotes by the members themselves simply expressing their struggles but also showing them persevering as well. I think judging the entire 100+ minute documentary from a less than a minute clip is just… spreading misinformation.
4. But that was last year, as i told you. every single clip was from last year. How would one know they’re not taking steps to improve? on SBS gayo their recent performance was 100% live and they sounded stable. there was no backtrack either, you can tell because in the chorus when they had to jump kazuha sounded a little shaky, but you can hear them from the microphone. i think of watching official sbs gayo video, watching a fancam can prove it.
5. I’d like to touch up a bit on sakura. in her weverse letter (which was a response to coachella) she expressed how she liked her performance. notice that in this clip (again, which is over a year old) she had clear anxiety and stage fright. now look at coachella; right after coachella, she’s received mountains of praise (from both fans and nonfans) on her improved confidence and vocals. even antis used her performance to drag other members’ performances. but after the weverse letter (which was in defende of her group’s backlash) people seemed to get offended by it for some reason and also started dragging her vocals as well. Nowadays when i see people dragging sakura’s vocals they use clips other than coachella. just food for thought.
I'm so glad someone has understood the documentary thank you so much for explaining it in such a good way, unfortunately neither the creator nor the viewers are gonna be sane enough to read a proper description like you've given. They're gonna ignore this like they ignored every part of the docu
Yes, she is shown multiple time having vocal lesson without any problem yet people only aknowledge the moment when she cry and comment things like "she don't try to improve". Enverglow up refered to these moment as " few montage when she is showed giggling with her coach" what is she supposed to do at this point?
100% this.
And 5 is exactly right. It's insanity to talk about the weverse letter as "crybaby Sakura" when it's a response to criticism . Not once does she mention her own performance specifically, and she did very well - frankly better than I, as a Sakura-wrecker, expected.
THANK YOU. People just be talking without knowing shit about anything