Had one, but the only thing they needed to adjust was the saddle height and cleat alignment. Saddle height I'd set through static means, but the video of my pedal stroke showed I quite significantly point my toes down, so the saddle height went up 2cm. Knee issues disappeared.
I was supposed to get a free basic bike fit at Quinns bike shop in Liverpool with my new bike but no one seemed at all interested as no payment for it so it never happened. Too busy with paying customets. I would have liked one.
I had a bike fit once and it caused more issues than I never had. I went back to fitting myself and know enough to get a good fit on every bike. Bikefitters don’t always take in account daily life and only focus on optimal theoretical numbers and angles
I think that’s probably the difference between a really good bike fitter and one who’s not so good. A good bike fit should absolutely take into account the physiology and lifestyle of the individual and not be trying to force them into positions that aren’t right for their individual body and needs
The point that stuck was everyone can benefit but not everyone needs it. In my position, I had good parameters in my natural body alignment is not extremely out of balance, I was injury free and I started off with a cheap but well fitting bike. Over time I changed all three contact points to a more aggressive position using cheap parts but was well within my comfort range. I also used what I learned about myself to apply to my wife's bike to help her comfort and it has made a world of difference. She has gone less aggressive on her fit and that works for her. A bike fitter would have probably done a better job than me but as she is doing significantly fewer miles than me she doesn't see the justification in the expenditure now she is pain free. Taking the principles these videos have given and applying them is good enough for some but if you need it, or want to optimize further, it's well worth it.
Had a bike fit after anout a year on my bike having rediscovered cycling at 63. Best thing i did. No more back or knee pain. I did need a shorter stem and bars but well worth the invedtment. I am planning a new bike next year and will definitely get a refit before purchase.
After a long, like 35 years long, hiatus from cycling, I wanted to get back into it. Got a recommendation from a friend and had a bike fit done before purchase. Then discussed with the shop owner what bike to get and have never regretted it. My bike is a joy to ride and put in 50-100 miles per week on the flats and hills.
Best thing anyone should do is get a bike sizing before opening the wallet. I did this and found I was riding a bike too large for me. I had been riding this bicycle for over seven years and was a follow-on from several previous bicycles. Current bicycle fits great...
I had a bike fit with Phil Burt. It was worth every penny for sure. I have bought another bike now too, and have tweaked the old one based on Phil's suggestions. I plan to book another session with him later this year to see if I'm still in the ball park. Perhaps decide if I need to change the bars on the old bike, which are wider.
I'd love a bike fit, but I also know that the process for me will likely involve swapping the 420mm integrated cockpit on my Bianchi for the 400 mm version with a slightly shorter stem. Rather than explain to the wife why my $12,000 bike "needs" a $750 handlebar upgrade, though, I've just angled my hoods a few degrees inwards, "gravel style," and made it work for now until a reasonably priced used cockpit crosses my path.
It seems absurd that bikes at that price point aren't customisable. If I'm paying upwards of £6k I expect to be able to select parts to make the bike fit me. Partly why I'll opt for frameset only and build up from there.
@@twatts4436depends on the manufacturer I guess. I ordered a brand new Giant TCR and they were happy to change handle bars and cranks to my preferred specs free of charge before I collected the bike
As a teenage bike shop employee, I used to be the bike fitter at a small bike shop before bike fits were a thing. I used all the traditional methods, combined with questions about the fitee's cycling goals. It worked pretty well. I remember when the first scientific systems came out. The shop owner -- a fitness buff but not an experienced cyclist -- was all excited. He could now do my job. Did they work? Sure, more or less. But it was also a way for someone without much riding experience to become an instant expert.
It's easy to say yes you should get a bikefit. You should definitely do your homework when choosing the right bikefitter. I got a bike too big, too aggressive and I know of more that got the wrong advice. It's a big business and there are always bad apples in the industry. Don't matter if you are x pro rider or just someone that loves cycles.
Totally agree. I have always been a runner and not a cyclist. Tried mountain biking a few years ago but didn’t like it and that could have been caused by the bike not been fitted to my person. Due to circumstances I had to cycle at the fysio and that made me by a smart bike (stages SB20) and combined with ROUVY I really liked cycling. A friend who was trying to get me in to cycling is happy now because I am going to buy my first ‘real’ bike. At the shop (CC5311 in the Netherlands) I will first have a guru bike fitting and after that we will configurate the bike. Normally you have to pay for the guru bike fitting but when you buy your bike at their shop the fitting is for free…..I think this is the perfect way for buying a bike because now you know that you have a bike that is fitted for you 😎👍🏽
I am in the market for a bike as a beginner. I saw enough UA-cam videos that said I should get a bikefit BEFORE I buy a bike and so I did. 3 hours later and I am looking for a completely different bike that the one I thought looked god and have great reviews.
Alex needs to shorten that stem by a good 10-20 mm. I was going to get a bike fit then I saw pictures of them fitting Chris Froome, Egan Bernal and Tom Pidcock plus the price. I just watch these videos and make the adjustments myself.
The integrated cockpit is a interesting subject, when i wanted to go narrower with my bars (i wanted a 38cm) it was almost impossible to find one with the stem length i needed, i guess the assumption from manufacturers is that if you want a narrow bar you probably have a short torso/arms. In the end i switched to a standard bar and stem combo, much cheaper and i could havd the exact fit that i needed.
Best thing I ever did getting a bike fit 😊 it completely transformed my riding comfort I’d definitely advise anyone whose thinking about it to get it done 🥰
I was out of cycling for several years because of back issues. When I returned, I was constantly in pain everywhere. Times changed from the 90's how they fitted me to this year when I had the fit done. Could not get comfortable. I was about to give it up for good until I came across getting a bike fit video earlier this year. After the fit I found I was 6 cm to low. And the saddle was too close to the handlebar. I went from all that pain to no pain. Plus, my speed picked up. Yes, it was well worth it for me.
Great video. I wanna tell you my experience.: I am an amateur and was training for my first-ever race. In a training session in January, I crashed and because of the injuries, I had some sciatica pain. After several months of work on strengthening and flexibility, I barely can sustain a 45 min session. Then I went to a pro bike fitter (also a physiotherapist). He found that not only my bike needed some adjustments but also i was doing wrong my pedal strokes. He made the bike fit and recommended me some minor (but relevant) changes to my pedaling. Then two things happened: I gained about 30-40 watts on the dead spot of the pedal stroke and my sciatica pain was relieved. * It was very quite expensive, but in my case really worth it.*
I paid 50 quid on aliexpress for a new integrated carbon handlebar which has shorter reach and 38cm width. It is lighter than stock and now feel perfect on the bike.
Great video once again Alex and GCN. I'm a veteran cyclist and advise to set up your bike based on the common rules of thumb you can find online. As long as your starting position is reasonably comfortable, just go with it and after a few weeks you could try tweaking things to see if anything helps either comfort or performance. Remember that as you ride more, your body will adapt, particularly back flexibility, arm and neck strength. So, your end of season position may be more aggressive, or aero, than at the start, with no loss of comfort. Pro bike fits are probably more important for elites and those with health issues.
The comment about the reach being too short was so insightful. I've been having terrible shoulder pain on my bike and convention wisdom would suggest that I needed to go shorter, but going shorter doesn't seem to be helping at all (maybe even making it worse). Going longer is worth a try.
Wanted to get in to cycling. Went to go get a fit prior to purchase and basically just got whatever he said. I have 0 complaints 500 miles in. Money well spent.
Most people could do it themselves if they took the time and effort. It’s not difficult but you need to get a good grasp on the way everything interacts with your body. In addition there are plenty of mediocre bike fit places that just go by numbers and averages and computer analysis.
Yep…there are plenty of easy-to-follow guidelines out there, and combined with a little common sense and trial-and-error, they will allow most folks to get themselves a good fit.
On the road to holidays, I had a video idea for you guys : how much fuel economy does an aero bike generate compared to a normal bike on the roof of your car, and can this economy pay for the bike ? I believe that most bikes ride more on their owners car than on the road itself and air resistance increase with the square of speed so the calculation might give surprising results 😂
My one and only bike fit was via an additional local NHS physio pay-service, £95, about 6 years ago, which didn't go into a massive amount of detail but covered the main points discussed in this video and others. Not sure if they still provide this service - might be worth asking in your local area if you're interested. For most people, this would probably be a reasonable price to pay, although would no doubt have inflated by now. I'd say that I didn't have any notable issues before hand, but did feel the benefit of the advice afterwards. Odd that the physio made a point more than once about how inflexible I was, despite being aware that I was in recovery, six months after a fairly serious back operation - worth it but left feeling fiarly deflated!
With many bike fitters, I often wonder, “Who made you an expert on such complicated issues as body type, riding style, age, experience, flexibility etc. etc. etc.”. While I’m sure there are good fitters out there, I think a lot of fittters are applying “rules” to every fit (that probably aren’t appropriate) and/or just talking out their a**. With some easy to understand time-tested guidelines and a little experimentation, most people can get a good fit on their own.
The biggest thing holding me back from getting a bike fit is finding a fitter that knows what they’re doing. I don’t want to throw several hundred dollars at a few different fitters until finding one who knows what they’re doing. In general, if they say they use one of the fitting systems then that’s an automatic no. If they took a course for retul and now they think they’re qualified then they’re out. They need to have a broader set of skills like this guy, James from Francis Cade’s channel, or Phil Burt(?). Any one know of fitters like this in the LA area?
@@T00ManyPets Try Lauren Mulwitz, had a good experience with her a few years ago. Really focuses on getting the feet right, which to me is the biggest key.
If you are an older rider, have had some injuries, or ride more than 50 km at a time a bike fit is a great investment. Cheaper than a new saddle or a new bibshorts and jersey set. About the same price as a pair of shoes without the cleats. Maybe the same price as a good pedal set and cleats. I had a bike fit when my bike was new, but crashed and had to replace some parts and nothing felt right and I was getting pain in my foot and neck. Off to a fitter and two hours later I was good to go. I'm 69 and recovering from a crash that severely injured my hand, but I just completed a 200 km ride yesterday with no issues. But not all fitters are equal. The second fitter was a licensed physical therapist besides being a bike fan, he had a lot of special equipment, and he spent a lot of time on each of the three points of contact: seat, handlebars, and pedals and cleats. The fit took more than 2 hours, plus I get a follow-up visit at no charge. The first fitter spent less time and charged more. He had no special qualifications. And he did not offer a follow-up visit.
I think I have a bike that is too long for me, after many reflexions and adjustment I ended up with 6 spacers + 60mm 30° steem and a saddle that is placed forward to the max 😂 Gives me a unique style tho
A bike fit lets another set of eyes see how you “look” on the bike. You can accomplish the same thing yourself with a little research on proper positioning and filming yourself on a trainer. Measurements can then be made on your current position, and adjustments made to get a good fit for you.
For 99 out of 100 people frame size and stem length/handlebar reach are the only things that matter. Crank length is irrelevant unless you like pedaling through corners or are a track sprinter. Horizontal saddle position is nearly irrelevant if stem length is ok. Saddle height is easy to get close enough. There is a range of one to two centimeters where it doesn't frigging matter. The best bike fit is to GET FITTER! If you get fit 99% of your real or imagined problems are sure to go away.
I agree that frame size and bar and stem reach is most important. But saddle height and crank length really matters . I see a lot of people with saddles that are way too high. For some It takes a bunch a trial and error to get i right. While other people are seemingly able to ride whatever position they wantyou seem to be in the latter category. I had 2 bike fitters, many years ago, screw up my bike fit so bad that i ended up injured and getting constant saddle sores. I ended up sizing down my frame, use a slightly shorter stem, narrower bars, shorter cranks and 2cm lower saddle height. I run more drop than i ever have before and am way more comfortable. But it took som years to get it right.
I'm saving up for an expensive bike and I want to get a bike fit before I spend that money, make absolutely sure I'm getting the right size... maybe even consider frame and build vs whole bike
Get a bike fit before your first road bike purchase, so as to ensure the right frame style and size. The bike setup should be included in the price of a new bike. Ride it for at least 1000 km and get a bike fit if you have a problem. It is normal for a road bike to feel a bit strange when you are first starting out and you'll likely lower the bars as your core strength and flexibility increase.
@AlexGCN @ 15.50 the wrists are somewhat tilted out so handlebars that are in real life 1 to 2 cm less wide are probably better. Because the goal is to have the wrists straight like shaking hands so that the nerves do not get stretched in the wrists for numbness, pins and needles etc.
One thing that bike fits don't address well is the active position vs the static position. These are different , ie, when i sit on my trainer, not pedaling, my hands are further back, and when in motion, it's much more comfortable for me to stretch out more.
12:40 all of you need to hear what he just said. It’ll literally save you thousands. Listen over and over until you understand what he just said. Bikes aren’t picked based on cool factor and colors.
@Ghengis@GCN In 5.30 the dangling leg turning away from the frame can come from at least the femur being restricted by the hip joint AKA sitting in too deep in the hip socket. You cannot help that if it is a hard limit of the bones. Another possibility is too weak glutes with a possible emphasis on too weak glute medius and minimus. Check out exercises correcting duck feet and have fun in corrective exercises that I am doing too with thanks to my physio.
I recently had a Retul bike fit at Toma Cycles. I consider this to far outweigh the value of any and all parts upgrades I ever made for marginal gains. So much more comfort, so much more power.
What worries me is that a shorter stem may rectify reach problems but steering feel can be the trade - off unfortunately . Getting the correct stem can mean having to wait to collect your bicycle purchase .
@@gcntech I have a fit about once every five years. I can feel if the bike is a few mm out, and one that doesnt fit is hard work, uncomfortable and slow. Like an ill fitting shoe.
@@RupertFear That's just not how the human brain works. While they are all different, all brains filter millions of sensations to allow us to make decisions. A few mm you can't perceive. Your analogy doesn't work because a shoe will give you sores which also irk a nerve through rubbing. Now if a few mm makes your nerves rub together then you got other issues.
Bearing in mind probably everyone who has a bike fit wants to improve something there must be a big incentive for bike fitters to change something. As comfort on a bike very much depends upon flexibility and core strength, you're probably better off making small changes and seeing if there's an improvement yourself.
I’ve had my bike fitted, but I don’t get all of mine fit. Tri bike, absolutely. I’m on a new one and need a fit, because it is currently set up to mimic my old one, which is pretty close, but it has some different geometry. My road bikes, I just take the fit from my old one and put it on to the new one. I might just get both done at once when I do the Tri bike fit though, just to check it due to changes in mobility and since it is a different frame than the old one.
Never had one.... I'm long legged and short torso so need a stack and head tube of a M/L and and XS/S reach/ETT.... definitely need a "sportive" style frameset and always on the lookout for something suitable S/H.... but both road bikes are configured exactly the same despite one being S(130mm head tube, lots of spacers under 80mm stem, short reach/drop bars,20mm layback seat post) and one being M (150mm head tube,single 10mm spacer under 70mm stem, same short reach/drop bars and an inline seatpost due to slacker seat tube angle to bring saddle forward)....maybe I need to just start doing yoga/pilates lol
Oh, and no numb hands, feet, arse, can ride no handed without steering twitch, regular 100km rides with no problems so I think I must be in the ball park...one thing I bought recently was a pair (£20 for both)of second hand ERGON TP1 cleat setting jigs- makes the job so much easier for the SPD and SPD-SL's
It shouldn’t cost £300 to find out if you need an endurance bike or a racing bike, I would have thought any decent bike shop will be able to help you get the right bike / frame for you.
@@chris1275ccunfortunately true. Wanted a gravelbike for Bikepacking but the shop owner just tried to sell me a cyclocross race machine which was too big. "you just need a shorter stem". Ended up buying online
If it would save £00s wasted on different saddles, maybe worth getting a bike fit. I did get a bike fit, he made very small changes to my position. Dropped the saddle height 7mm. Took out 5mm of stem spacer. No material difference to the saddle comfort and the saddle he gave me to try was worse than I’d been using. So still not comfortable after 3+ hours on a bike and I’ve tried every type of saddle and know my position is as near optimal as can be. Maybe some bodies are not just designed to spend hours exerting pressure on a relatively small and sensitive part of the anatomy….. But I’m still thinking of a bike fit with saddle pressure mapping….
Why do all these bike fits focus just on a single position with hands on the hoods? When I set up a new bike, I think about every way I'm going to ride it. I want to be able to switch between riding on the nose of the saddle and back on my sit bones. When I was racing crits I'd be in the drops nearly the whole race and needed to wrestle the bike out of corners, so I need leverage. On longer rides, I spend some time on the tops of the bars just to mix it up. If you expect to be all over the bike, getting a single, millimeter-perfect position doesn't make much sense. That being said, whenever a friend is looking to buy their first bike, I always send them for a fit first so they know their frame size and approximate reach before they get a bike.
The focus isn't on one single position, rather it's a focus on the 'max' reach where beyond it you're looking for pain. The assumption is that you can ride all the other positions because you can the 'max'. Also the 'max' is the most aero position and folks that would even consider spending on a bike fit, probably spend most of their ride in that position.
At 45 seconds in on the How to Ride Steep Climbs on a Road Bike video, I noticed Conor’s right heel strikes the chainstay and that it’s led to quite a bit of scuffing. Obviously bike fitting for him is a whole different ballgame, but I wonder what could (or should, if at all) be done about this sort of thing.
Custom right-side chainstay that bends inward in the middle. My right heal hits on my MTB with Boost rear hub spacing. It clears on all of my other bikes.
Longer pedal spindles, at least for his right pedal. This will allow for his foot to attain a slight ‘heel in’ angle without the shoe striking the chainstay
Yeah Neil Stanbury, Scott Maclean also the bike fit guy James on Cade Media seem more confident in the subject. I was also thinking "what a poxy wee space to do a bike fit", and wondering how he would observe from the front or back and the sides- being near hard against a wall. Can't possibly get a walk around while someone is pedaling away so only ever slightly more than a 2D view??
I wonder how many problems come from people buying built-up bikes from the high volume makers. For example, if you are 184 tall you'll often find there will be no choice other than 175 cranks and 110/42 or 44 bars; where as you might want 172.5 and 120/40. So if you buy the bike, that's a lot of kit to change out (ie cost) or the option of riding round on the wrong sized kit. You might have thought that with today's IT systems you'd be able to pay £10k and make a choice!
I just looked at my foot angle and my foot point out at an angle you could never match on the bike shoe. Looks like i will be slowly changing my foot angle.
People just need to accept the fact that your road bike is never gonna be as comfortable as your mountainbike. I ride both, different courses different horses.
The reason these videos do far more harm than good is people assume they know things. People are motor morons, few people understand what destructive force is, so people injure themselves. Combine that with popular videos that say “people who don’t ride far probably don’t need a bike fitting”, and you have the current state we’re in… Let’s look at one simple parameter of bike fitting - saddle height. Set the saddle too high and the foot gets pulled down at the bottom of the stroke. The foot acts as leverage on the anterior tibialis, which has a pull reflex. The result is a sharp tension spike. That tug may seem insignificant, but it happens 70 times a minute for as long as they’re riding. Set the saddle too low and the hip is out of range of motion at the top of the pedal stroke. These two fitting mistakes generate destructive force… You know who’s really bad at setting saddle height? People who don’t ride very far. Rant part 2: My fitting career started before most of the fitting schools. I’ve been to a number of them, they all like to do the body assessment off the bike. I find that it causes the fitter to solve problems that don’t happen on the bike. At Retul University (their name, I called it something else) each student was also a fitting subject. They learned that I had a severe back injury and they put me in this upright position that was unusable. I put the rider on the bike and have them pedal. If I see something I can’t explain I can always take them off the bike to check limits of range of motion. Fitting is getting a reputation of being expensive because it’s become a dog & pony show of pointless steps. Rant part 3: look in the comments and you’ll find that fitting is inconsistent. Anyone can take a class on bike fitting and call themselves a fitter. My suggestion for anyone looking to get into fitting is to find a local team or club to coach, and start producing good riders. Each member of the team then becomes a long term test case, with constant feedback. It’s not a quick process. To be honest, most people will fail at this. People assume it’s easy, or that they somehow know everything they need to know. Without a weeding out process you will always have bad fitters.
I have complicated feelings on this - while I strongly believe all cyclists will benefit from a bike fit, it's also not feasible or necessary in a world where literally everyone bikes to get around & for fun, not just for exercise/racing. And that is the world we need if we're ever going to escape the disaster of climate change, car culture & anti-cycling sentiment.
Getting a bike fit and then buying an off the peg frame is the definition of futility. And with the price of off the peg frames these days, it’s even more ridiculous. An sworks tarmac frame for 5,500 euro. That is one expensive M&S suit to buy after a tailor has taken your measurements
You're overthinking it. The relationship between arm length and leg length of humans is nearly linear, the cases that would take the "nearly" out of my statement can be dealt with with a stem or saddle height change.
#askgcntech why do people run long ahead stems? 110, 130 even 140 mm. Those long stems looks more like a rudder tiller, you push sideways to turn, than rotate to turn. Why don't people just get a bigger frame?
Having seen a few other videos on bike fits, this one has added a little bit of useful information. But, if i was coming to the subject cold I think this videywould not be very helpful. I mean no disrespect to Alex or the bike fitter (sorry cant remember his name) or even the video editor but I feel that too many assumptions were made about what the viwer might already know or understand.
Im so frustrated. My bike feels really good when I ride even drop postion. Shoulder nice relax after 25 min riding lower back pain .shoukd i move seat slight foward ?
Possibly more core strength required. Could be as you get tired your body starts to slouch and puts a strain on your back. If your seat is the right height, moving your seat forward will probably just put weight on your wrists.
Have you ever had a bike fit? 🚴📏 Let us know in the comments below! 👇
Do we make a bike fit only for road/gravel bikes?? Are straight horns inherently wrong? 😁
Had one, but the only thing they needed to adjust was the saddle height and cleat alignment.
Saddle height I'd set through static means, but the video of my pedal stroke showed I quite significantly point my toes down, so the saddle height went up 2cm.
Knee issues disappeared.
And just to say, a video of yourself on the turbo can help if you want to try at home. Just don't use static methods!!!
I have done bike fits for myself on several bikes and am learning more all the time.
I was supposed to get a free basic bike fit at Quinns bike shop in Liverpool with my new bike but no one seemed at all interested as no payment for it so it never happened. Too busy with paying customets. I would have liked one.
What would be interesting would be to send a good but unknown rider to 4 or 5 bike fitters to see what different setups are suggested.
this
I agree.
two thumbs up to this really
And then get all the fitters together to explain their fit to each other
@@dh7314 That's an argument I'd pay to see.
I had a bike fit once and it caused more issues than I never had. I went back to fitting myself and know enough to get a good fit on every bike. Bikefitters don’t always take in account daily life and only focus on optimal theoretical numbers and angles
I think that’s probably the difference between a really good bike fitter and one who’s not so good. A good bike fit should absolutely take into account the physiology and lifestyle of the individual and not be trying to force them into positions that aren’t right for their individual body and needs
I had the same experience. I can feel what’s right: a fitter thinks his theories should trump that.
The point that stuck was everyone can benefit but not everyone needs it. In my position, I had good parameters in my natural body alignment is not extremely out of balance, I was injury free and I started off with a cheap but well fitting bike. Over time I changed all three contact points to a more aggressive position using cheap parts but was well within my comfort range. I also used what I learned about myself to apply to my wife's bike to help her comfort and it has made a world of difference. She has gone less aggressive on her fit and that works for her. A bike fitter would have probably done a better job than me but as she is doing significantly fewer miles than me she doesn't see the justification in the expenditure now she is pain free. Taking the principles these videos have given and applying them is good enough for some but if you need it, or want to optimize further, it's well worth it.
Yes it’s well worth it even a basic fit best decision I ever made was to get a bike fit
That's good to hear!
I had one, caused more problems than it solved! It’s kinda common sense, you can 100 get your position right yourself
Had a bike fit after anout a year on my bike having rediscovered cycling at 63. Best thing i did. No more back or knee pain. I did need a shorter stem and bars but well worth the invedtment. I am planning a new bike next year and will definitely get a refit before purchase.
After a long, like 35 years long, hiatus from cycling, I wanted to get back into it. Got a recommendation from a friend and had a bike fit done before purchase. Then discussed with the shop owner what bike to get and have never regretted it. My bike is a joy to ride and put in 50-100 miles per week on the flats and hills.
Best thing anyone should do is get a bike sizing before opening the wallet. I did this and found I was riding a bike too large for me. I had been riding this bicycle for over seven years and was a follow-on from several previous bicycles. Current bicycle fits great...
I had a bike fit with Phil Burt. It was worth every penny for sure. I have bought another bike now too, and have tweaked the old one based on Phil's suggestions. I plan to book another session with him later this year to see if I'm still in the ball park. Perhaps decide if I need to change the bars on the old bike, which are wider.
I'd love a bike fit, but I also know that the process for me will likely involve swapping the 420mm integrated cockpit on my Bianchi for the 400 mm version with a slightly shorter stem. Rather than explain to the wife why my $12,000 bike "needs" a $750 handlebar upgrade, though, I've just angled my hoods a few degrees inwards, "gravel style," and made it work for now until a reasonably priced used cockpit crosses my path.
It seems absurd that bikes at that price point aren't customisable.
If I'm paying upwards of £6k I expect to be able to select parts to make the bike fit me.
Partly why I'll opt for frameset only and build up from there.
@@twatts4436depends on the manufacturer I guess. I ordered a brand new Giant TCR and they were happy to change handle bars and cranks to my preferred specs free of charge before I collected the bike
The full-carbon bikes seem to be like iphones these days: a lot of unique parts, not quite repairable, but too expensive to be disposable
As a teenage bike shop employee, I used to be the bike fitter at a small bike shop before bike fits were a thing. I used all the traditional methods, combined with questions about the fitee's cycling goals. It worked pretty well. I remember when the first scientific systems came out. The shop owner -- a fitness buff but not an experienced cyclist -- was all excited. He could now do my job. Did they work? Sure, more or less. But it was also a way for someone without much riding experience to become an instant expert.
It's easy to say yes you should get a bikefit. You should definitely do your homework when choosing the right bikefitter.
I got a bike too big, too aggressive and I know of more that got the wrong advice.
It's a big business and there are always bad apples in the industry. Don't matter if you are x pro rider or just someone that loves cycles.
Totally agree. I have always been a runner and not a cyclist. Tried mountain biking a few years ago but didn’t like it and that could have been caused by the bike not been fitted to my person. Due to circumstances I had to cycle at the fysio and that made me by a smart bike (stages SB20) and combined with ROUVY I really liked cycling. A friend who was trying to get me in to cycling is happy now because I am going to buy my first ‘real’ bike.
At the shop (CC5311 in the Netherlands) I will first have a guru bike fitting and after that we will configurate the bike. Normally you have to pay for the guru bike fitting but when you buy your bike at their shop the fitting is for free…..I think this is the perfect way for buying a bike because now you know that you have a bike that is fitted for you 😎👍🏽
I am in the market for a bike as a beginner. I saw enough UA-cam videos that said I should get a bikefit BEFORE I buy a bike and so I did. 3 hours later and I am looking for a completely different bike that the one I thought looked god and have great reviews.
Best money I have ever spent on cycling. I am old and injured, so it was crucial to me enjoying the sport, which I do now!
Alex needs to shorten that stem by a good 10-20 mm. I was going to get a bike fit then I saw pictures of them fitting Chris Froome, Egan Bernal and Tom Pidcock plus the price. I just watch these videos and make the adjustments myself.
The integrated cockpit is a interesting subject, when i wanted to go narrower with my bars (i wanted a 38cm) it was almost impossible to find one with the stem length i needed, i guess the assumption from manufacturers is that if you want a narrow bar you probably have a short torso/arms. In the end i switched to a standard bar and stem combo, much cheaper and i could havd the exact fit that i needed.
Best thing I ever did getting a bike fit 😊 it completely transformed my riding comfort I’d definitely advise anyone whose thinking about it to get it done 🥰
I was out of cycling for several years because of back issues. When I returned, I was constantly in pain everywhere. Times changed from the 90's how they fitted me to this year when I had the fit done. Could not get comfortable. I was about to give it up for good until I came across getting a bike fit video earlier this year. After the fit I found I was 6 cm to low. And the saddle was too close to the handlebar. I went from all that pain to no pain. Plus, my speed picked up. Yes, it was well worth it for me.
Great video. I wanna tell you my experience.:
I am an amateur and was training for my first-ever race. In a training session in January, I crashed and because of the injuries, I had some sciatica pain. After several months of work on strengthening and flexibility, I barely can sustain a 45 min session. Then I went to a pro bike fitter (also a physiotherapist). He found that not only my bike needed some adjustments but also i was doing wrong my pedal strokes. He made the bike fit and recommended me some minor (but relevant) changes to my pedaling. Then two things happened: I gained about 30-40 watts on the dead spot of the pedal stroke and my sciatica pain was relieved.
* It was very quite expensive, but in my case really worth it.*
I paid 50 quid on aliexpress for a new integrated carbon handlebar which has shorter reach and 38cm width. It is lighter than stock and now feel perfect on the bike.
Sounds like you've found a bargain!
I sold my Pinnarello as road buzz aggrevated my osteoarthritis . I have a mountain bike with slick tyres as my everyday setup now .
Great video once again Alex and GCN. I'm a veteran cyclist and advise to set up your bike based on the common rules of thumb you can find online. As long as your starting position is reasonably comfortable, just go with it and after a few weeks you could try tweaking things to see if anything helps either comfort or performance. Remember that as you ride more, your body will adapt, particularly back flexibility, arm and neck strength. So, your end of season position may be more aggressive, or aero, than at the start, with no loss of comfort. Pro bike fits are probably more important for elites and those with health issues.
The comment about the reach being too short was so insightful. I've been having terrible shoulder pain on my bike and convention wisdom would suggest that I needed to go shorter, but going shorter doesn't seem to be helping at all (maybe even making it worse). Going longer is worth a try.
Wanted to get in to cycling. Went to go get a fit prior to purchase and basically just got whatever he said. I have 0 complaints 500 miles in. Money well spent.
Most people could do it themselves if they took the time and effort. It’s not difficult but you need to get a good grasp on the way everything interacts with your body. In addition there are plenty of mediocre bike fit places that just go by numbers and averages and computer analysis.
Yep…there are plenty of easy-to-follow guidelines out there, and combined with a little common sense and trial-and-error, they will allow most folks to get themselves a good fit.
On the road to holidays, I had a video idea for you guys : how much fuel economy does an aero bike generate compared to a normal bike on the roof of your car, and can this economy pay for the bike ?
I believe that most bikes ride more on their owners car than on the road itself and air resistance increase with the square of speed so the calculation might give surprising results 😂
If you know how to change your saddle height, your cleat position, and changing your stem, then you don't need bike fit at all unless you're a racer
My one and only bike fit was via an additional local NHS physio pay-service, £95, about 6 years ago, which didn't go into a massive amount of detail but covered the main points discussed in this video and others. Not sure if they still provide this service - might be worth asking in your local area if you're interested. For most people, this would probably be a reasonable price to pay, although would no doubt have inflated by now. I'd say that I didn't have any notable issues before hand, but did feel the benefit of the advice afterwards. Odd that the physio made a point more than once about how inflexible I was, despite being aware that I was in recovery, six months after a fairly serious back operation - worth it but left feeling fiarly deflated!
With many bike fitters, I often wonder, “Who made you an expert on such complicated issues as body type, riding style, age, experience, flexibility etc. etc. etc.”. While I’m sure there are good fitters out there, I think a lot of fittters are applying “rules” to every fit (that probably aren’t appropriate) and/or just talking out their a**. With some easy to understand time-tested guidelines and a little experimentation, most people can get a good fit on their own.
The biggest thing holding me back from getting a bike fit is finding a fitter that knows what they’re doing. I don’t want to throw several hundred dollars at a few different fitters until finding one who knows what they’re doing. In general, if they say they use one of the fitting systems then that’s an automatic no. If they took a course for retul and now they think they’re qualified then they’re out. They need to have a broader set of skills like this guy, James from Francis Cade’s channel, or Phil Burt(?).
Any one know of fitters like this in the LA area?
@@T00ManyPets Try Lauren Mulwitz, had a good experience with her a few years ago. Really focuses on getting the feet right, which to me is the biggest key.
If you are an older rider, have had some injuries, or ride more than 50 km at a time a bike fit is a great investment. Cheaper than a new saddle or a new bibshorts and jersey set. About the same price as a pair of shoes without the cleats. Maybe the same price as a good pedal set and cleats.
I had a bike fit when my bike was new, but crashed and had to replace some parts and nothing felt right and I was getting pain in my foot and neck. Off to a fitter and two hours later I was good to go. I'm 69 and recovering from a crash that severely injured my hand, but I just completed a 200 km ride yesterday with no issues.
But not all fitters are equal. The second fitter was a licensed physical therapist besides being a bike fan, he had a lot of special equipment, and he spent a lot of time on each of the three points of contact: seat, handlebars, and pedals and cleats. The fit took more than 2 hours, plus I get a follow-up visit at no charge. The first fitter spent less time and charged more. He had no special qualifications. And he did not offer a follow-up visit.
No ones asked the big question. What's the average cost of a bike fit and is there a list of recommended bike fit experts
I think I have a bike that is too long for me, after many reflexions and adjustment I ended up with 6 spacers + 60mm 30° steem and a saddle that is placed forward to the max 😂 Gives me a unique style tho
A bike fit lets another set of eyes see how you “look” on the bike. You can accomplish the same thing yourself with a little research on proper positioning and filming yourself on a trainer. Measurements can then be made on your current position, and adjustments made to get a good fit for you.
A bike fitter with a fit bike would be my first pick.
For 99 out of 100 people frame size and stem length/handlebar reach are the only things that matter. Crank length is irrelevant unless you like pedaling through corners or are a track sprinter. Horizontal saddle position is nearly irrelevant if stem length is ok. Saddle height is easy to get close enough. There is a range of one to two centimeters where it doesn't frigging matter. The best bike fit is to GET FITTER! If you get fit 99% of your real or imagined problems are sure to go away.
I agree that frame size and bar and stem reach is most important. But saddle height and crank length really matters . I see a lot of people with saddles that are way too high. For some It takes a bunch a trial and error to get i right. While other people are seemingly able to ride whatever position they wantyou seem to be in the latter category.
I had 2 bike fitters, many years ago, screw up my bike fit so bad that i ended up injured and getting constant saddle sores.
I ended up sizing down my frame, use a slightly shorter stem, narrower bars, shorter cranks and 2cm lower saddle height. I run more drop than i ever have before and am way more comfortable. But it took som years to get it right.
This is the best guide I’ve ever watched and super helpful! Thank you guys 😊👍🏻
I'm saving up for an expensive bike and I want to get a bike fit before I spend that money, make absolutely sure I'm getting the right size... maybe even consider frame and build vs whole bike
Hope it’ll be a Davidson custom out there in Seattle!
I did a bike fit in order to know what to buy.
how much did you pay?
@@theforgottenbrawlers 100 Euros
Why do you not show Alex’s new, adjusted position. Looks like his saddle is too high and too far back.
Get a bike fit before your first road bike purchase, so as to ensure the right frame style and size. The bike setup should be included in the price of a new bike. Ride it for at least 1000 km and get a bike fit if you have a problem.
It is normal for a road bike to feel a bit strange when you are first starting out and you'll likely lower the bars as your core strength and flexibility increase.
@AlexGCN @ 15.50 the wrists are somewhat tilted out so handlebars that are in real life 1 to 2 cm less wide are probably better. Because the goal is to have the wrists straight like shaking hands so that the nerves do not get stretched in the wrists for numbness, pins and needles etc.
The trouble is whatever they decide is a great bike fit now in 2 years they will have changed their minds and will recommend a different fit.
One thing that bike fits don't address well is the active position vs the static position. These are different , ie, when i sit on my trainer, not pedaling, my hands are further back, and when in motion, it's much more comfortable for me to stretch out more.
12:40 all of you need to hear what he just said. It’ll literally save you thousands. Listen over and over until you understand what he just said. Bikes aren’t picked based on cool factor and colors.
Definitely worth it in my opinion 🚴🏻😃👍Pete
@Ghengis@GCN In 5.30 the dangling leg turning away from the frame can come from at least the femur being restricted by the hip joint AKA sitting in too deep in the hip socket. You cannot help that if it is a hard limit of the bones. Another possibility is too weak glutes with a possible emphasis on too weak glute medius and minimus. Check out exercises correcting duck feet and have fun in corrective exercises that I am doing too with thanks to my physio.
I recently had a Retul bike fit at Toma Cycles. I consider this to far outweigh the value of any and all parts upgrades I ever made for marginal gains. So much more comfort, so much more power.
What worries me is that a shorter stem may rectify reach problems but steering feel can be the trade - off unfortunately . Getting the correct stem can mean having to wait to collect your bicycle purchase .
Where I live ,Specialized requires you to be a doctor to do body geometry fitting to riders .
Yes, A quite small sum for a massive improvement.
Did getting a bike fit improve your riding experience?
@@gcntech I have a fit about once every five years. I can feel if the bike is a few mm out, and one that doesnt fit is hard work, uncomfortable and slow. Like an ill fitting shoe.
@@RupertFear That's just not how the human brain works. While they are all different, all brains filter millions of sensations to allow us to make decisions. A few mm you can't perceive. Your analogy doesn't work because a shoe will give you sores which also irk a nerve through rubbing. Now if a few mm makes your nerves rub together then you got other issues.
Just courious; how often does a bikefitter find that a riders position is good an nothing needs to be changed?
Great question.
Bearing in mind probably everyone who has a bike fit wants to improve something there must be a big incentive for bike fitters to change something. As comfort on a bike very much depends upon flexibility and core strength, you're probably better off making small changes and seeing if there's an improvement yourself.
I’ve had my bike fitted, but I don’t get all of mine fit. Tri bike, absolutely. I’m on a new one and need a fit, because it is currently set up to mimic my old one, which is pretty close, but it has some different geometry. My road bikes, I just take the fit from my old one and put it on to the new one. I might just get both done at once when I do the Tri bike fit though, just to check it due to changes in mobility and since it is a different frame than the old one.
100% yes!
Never had one.... I'm long legged and short torso so need a stack and head tube of a M/L and and XS/S reach/ETT.... definitely need a "sportive" style frameset and always on the lookout for something suitable S/H.... but both road bikes are configured exactly the same despite one being S(130mm head tube, lots of spacers under 80mm stem, short reach/drop bars,20mm layback seat post) and one being M (150mm head tube,single 10mm spacer under 70mm stem, same short reach/drop bars and an inline seatpost due to slacker seat tube angle to bring saddle forward)....maybe I need to just start doing yoga/pilates lol
Oh, and no numb hands, feet, arse, can ride no handed without steering twitch, regular 100km rides with no problems so I think I must be in the ball park...one thing I bought recently was a pair (£20 for both)of second hand ERGON TP1 cleat setting jigs- makes the job so much easier for the SPD and SPD-SL's
Sliding forward on the saddle may also indicate that the saddle is too wide!!! Sliding to a more narrow part of the saddle!
It shouldn’t cost £300 to find out if you need an endurance bike or a racing bike, I would have thought any decent bike shop will be able to help you get the right bike / frame for you.
I suspect most could, but they would rather show you "what we have in stock".
@@chris1275ccunfortunately true. Wanted a gravelbike for Bikepacking but the shop owner just tried to sell me a cyclocross race machine which was too big. "you just need a shorter stem".
Ended up buying online
If it would save £00s wasted on different saddles, maybe worth getting a bike fit. I did get a bike fit, he made very small changes to my position. Dropped the saddle height 7mm. Took out 5mm of stem spacer. No material difference to the saddle comfort and the saddle he gave me to try was worse than I’d been using. So still not comfortable after 3+ hours on a bike and I’ve tried every type of saddle and know my position is as near optimal as can be. Maybe some bodies are not just designed to spend hours exerting pressure on a relatively small and sensitive part of the anatomy….. But I’m still thinking of a bike fit with saddle pressure mapping….
when i got my road bike it took me 2 months of trials and errors and a lot of pain to get it all set up - bike fit wound be so much easyer
Is it something you'd consider having done in the future?
@@gcntech i wound if it's not too expensive
Why do all these bike fits focus just on a single position with hands on the hoods? When I set up a new bike, I think about every way I'm going to ride it. I want to be able to switch between riding on the nose of the saddle and back on my sit bones. When I was racing crits I'd be in the drops nearly the whole race and needed to wrestle the bike out of corners, so I need leverage. On longer rides, I spend some time on the tops of the bars just to mix it up. If you expect to be all over the bike, getting a single, millimeter-perfect position doesn't make much sense. That being said, whenever a friend is looking to buy their first bike, I always send them for a fit first so they know their frame size and approximate reach before they get a bike.
The focus isn't on one single position, rather it's a focus on the 'max' reach where beyond it you're looking for pain. The assumption is that you can ride all the other positions because you can the 'max'. Also the 'max' is the most aero position and folks that would even consider spending on a bike fit, probably spend most of their ride in that position.
At 45 seconds in on the How to Ride Steep Climbs on a Road Bike video, I noticed Conor’s right heel strikes the chainstay and that it’s led to quite a bit of scuffing. Obviously bike fitting for him is a whole different ballgame, but I wonder what could (or should, if at all) be done about this sort of thing.
Custom right-side chainstay that bends inward in the middle. My right heal hits on my MTB with Boost rear hub spacing. It clears on all of my other bikes.
Longer pedal spindles, at least for his right pedal. This will allow for his foot to attain a slight ‘heel in’ angle without the shoe striking the chainstay
If I had to buy a £500 or £1000 new cockpit for a 10mm difference I would simply say no and see if I can’t compensate with other options.
Id say get the bike fitter Cam Nichol uses or that Kinetic cycle coach.
I'm not a fan of this guy.
!!!!!!
Yeah Neil Stanbury, Scott Maclean also the bike fit guy James on Cade Media seem more confident in the subject. I was also thinking "what a poxy wee space to do a bike fit", and wondering how he would observe from the front or back and the sides- being near hard against a wall. Can't possibly get a walk around while someone is pedaling away so only ever slightly more than a 2D view??
Would be helpful if there was a GOOD bike fitter around. Some of us don't have the luck...
I wonder how many problems come from people buying built-up bikes from the high volume makers.
For example, if you are 184 tall you'll often find there will be no choice other than 175 cranks and 110/42 or 44 bars; where as you might want 172.5 and 120/40.
So if you buy the bike, that's a lot of kit to change out (ie cost) or the option of riding round on the wrong sized kit.
You might have thought that with today's IT systems you'd be able to pay £10k and make a choice!
I just looked at my foot angle and my foot point out at an angle you could never match on the bike shoe. Looks like i will be slowly changing my foot angle.
Do you have to wear matching shorts to get a fit at the Pinarello store?
Yes you should
@gcntech may I ask what's size of Alex "Pina" bike??
People just need to accept the fact that your road bike is never gonna be as comfortable as your mountainbike.
I ride both, different courses different horses.
Why did GCN increase the volume of all their videos. Now I have to turn it down compared to other channels I follow 😢
No, but another pinarello ad never goes a miss....
The reason these videos do far more harm than good is people assume they know things. People are motor morons, few people understand what destructive force is, so people injure themselves. Combine that with popular videos that say “people who don’t ride far probably don’t need a bike fitting”, and you have the current state we’re in… Let’s look at one simple parameter of bike fitting - saddle height. Set the saddle too high and the foot gets pulled down at the bottom of the stroke. The foot acts as leverage on the anterior tibialis, which has a pull reflex. The result is a sharp tension spike. That tug may seem insignificant, but it happens 70 times a minute for as long as they’re riding. Set the saddle too low and the hip is out of range of motion at the top of the pedal stroke. These two fitting mistakes generate destructive force… You know who’s really bad at setting saddle height? People who don’t ride very far.
Rant part 2: My fitting career started before most of the fitting schools. I’ve been to a number of them, they all like to do the body assessment off the bike. I find that it causes the fitter to solve problems that don’t happen on the bike. At Retul University (their name, I called it something else) each student was also a fitting subject. They learned that I had a severe back injury and they put me in this upright position that was unusable. I put the rider on the bike and have them pedal. If I see something I can’t explain I can always take them off the bike to check limits of range of motion. Fitting is getting a reputation of being expensive because it’s become a dog & pony show of pointless steps.
Rant part 3: look in the comments and you’ll find that fitting is inconsistent. Anyone can take a class on bike fitting and call themselves a fitter. My suggestion for anyone looking to get into fitting is to find a local team or club to coach, and start producing good riders. Each member of the team then becomes a long term test case, with constant feedback. It’s not a quick process. To be honest, most people will fail at this. People assume it’s easy, or that they somehow know everything they need to know. Without a weeding out process you will always have bad fitters.
I have complicated feelings on this - while I strongly believe all cyclists will benefit from a bike fit, it's also not feasible or necessary in a world where literally everyone bikes to get around & for fun, not just for exercise/racing. And that is the world we need if we're ever going to escape the disaster of climate change, car culture & anti-cycling sentiment.
So (a million times so) did you move the saddle forward or not?
Getting a bike fit and then buying an off the peg frame is the definition of futility. And with the price of off the peg frames these days, it’s even more ridiculous. An sworks tarmac frame for 5,500 euro. That is one expensive M&S suit to buy after a tailor has taken your measurements
You're overthinking it. The relationship between arm length and leg length of humans is nearly linear, the cases that would take the "nearly" out of my statement can be dealt with with a stem or saddle height change.
I had the option his saddle seemed a bit far back ...
Bike fitters trying to keep their business flowing!
#askgcntech why do people run long ahead stems? 110, 130 even 140 mm. Those long stems looks more like a rudder tiller, you push sideways to turn, than rotate to turn.
Why don't people just get a bigger frame?
Small frame and long stem equals lighter weight.
A bike fit would be nice... If it didn't cost more than a month's salary here where I live
Having seen a few other videos on bike fits, this one has added a little bit of useful information. But, if i was coming to the subject cold I think this videywould not be very helpful. I mean no disrespect to Alex or the bike fitter (sorry cant remember his name) or even the video editor but I feel that too many assumptions were made about what the viwer might already know or understand.
Yes
Guy whose livelihood depends on selling bike fits recommends everyone get a bike fit. Shocking development really.
long ad
How many bikes do you see with crank marking loads , common sense 😅
Basic fit yeah but this "pro" thing hell nah dooood waste of money and really a big rip-off for casual riders that is....
Also get a video of yourself riding. Ask a buddy what it looks like. Most people haven't put any thought into this beyond "should I get a fit?"
AKA bike fitter justifies his existence
No. None should. if you can't figure it out on your own with all the info on the internet, then you're beyond help.
All cyclists should get a fit bike😂
Im so frustrated. My bike feels really good when I ride even drop postion. Shoulder nice relax after 25 min riding lower back pain .shoukd i move seat slight foward ?
Possibly more core strength required. Could be as you get tired your body starts to slouch and puts a strain on your back. If your seat is the right height, moving your seat forward will probably just put weight on your wrists.
It would be great to see a comparison between a bike fit by a professional like @Phil Burt and compare it with an AI powered online bikefit MyVeloFit.
Yes