At Northeast Helicopters back in the days, we had an elevated landing pad (30 ft high) to practice precision landings out of ground effect. That was very helpful... Plus we had a fake confined area on the airport area to practice in.
I took my Commercial check ride about a month ago, including the off-airport approach with a high recon & a low recon orbit at 300 AGL. In the debrief the DPE said he doesn't recommend a low orbiting recon at 300 AGL for the same reason you don't fly traffic patterns at 300 AGL - no reaction time. He likes a high recon (of at LEAST 2 orbits) at 500 AGL, then conduct the approach and do the “low recon” on the base leg and final. BTW, you keep calling it "settling with power." I thought the language police were now calling it "vortex ring state?" ... which is a subset of settling with power.
I refer to it as “settling”, because I can say that faster. With enough time for the student to react. Saying “watch out for main rotor vortex ring state” takes too long. By that time you can be too far into it for me. Besides since the 70’s its always been “settling with power” and I’m too old and stubborn to change now!! Ever heard of “power settling”?
1. Always know wind direction from preflight and throughout in-flight visual checks. 2. Downwind deceleration out of ETL is a high probability of vortex ring state IGE and OGE. 3. Be sure to know the Vuichard Method of ring state recovery. 4. In confined space, as much as possible decelerate out of ETL only IGE. 5. In a confined space where there isn't sufficient horizontal opening to allow deceleration out of ETL to IGE, first decelerate out of ETL to IGE nearby, then without re-entry to ETL, hover OGE slowly over the LZ and make a slow VSI vertical descent slower than 200 FPM facing the wind as much as possible. At that rate of descent, entry into ground effect will seem bouncy. Once in ground effect, land from a hover as usual. Note: Personally, I prefer to scout and plan every potential confined LZ on foot first by whatever means of ground transportation is necessary.
I know strictly speaking and by definition, gyroplanes do not experience transitional lift but is this necessarily totally true? I have often wondered what contributes most to the total lift required to keep a gyroplane aloft. Certainly the rotor speed contributes but the upward flow of the relative wind and its resistance of the total disk area and even flow over the disk and subsequent downwash of that flow also contributes. Lift vs drag at high disk angles such as the beginnings of the take off roll has more to do with shedding the induced drag vs lift which is available. As you endeavor to shed this drag, the aircraft will be allowed to accelerate and climb out. Generally in the 55 to 65 mph range. There are angle of attack and speed combinations which a Gyroplane will be dragged from the air, as you have nicely demonstrated. I might add here, Ken Brock and his desert instructional videos were outstanding in its clarity. Forward speed and proper disk angle with adequate power all are essential. As the debate of what actually makes an airfoil fly has raised its theoretical head once again and concluded that the lift generated by faster moving air over the top of the wing is only partially credited, rotorcraft are far more complex. My question is impossible to answer but it must have to be said that a Gyroplanes transitional lift( Used quite incorrectly ) is at an airspeed where you are no longer behind the power curve and this deals more shedding drag than more with lift.
I am always concerned about landing into the wind! I understand your question , but really any amount of wind is significant. It's not only easier to tell which way the wind is blowing the greater the wind velocity, but it's a much greater margin of safety when landing into it. As an example, most Helicopters go through ETL at about 15 -18 knots. If you are landing into a 20 knot wind, you are above ETL all the way to the ground and would never get into settling with power. If you landed with that same wind off the tail you would get into SWP while your aircraft was moving about 20-25 knots forward relative to the ground. If you took your cues for speed by watching the ground and not your airspeed indicator you could would get into SWP at a low altitude with very little time to recognize it and recover. Remember- LAND INTO THE WIND- If you do, you have "nearly" eliminated the risk of getting into SWP. Now, just don't hit anything and you should be fine!! Thanks for the question. Paul
Thanks for taking time to answer my question Paul. I just know that sometimes when landing in certain spots it’s not possible to land into the wind (high obstructions downwind of landing spot) but when winds are light I wondered how strict you were with light winds. Like your new landing pad, if wind was from the tall side of your pad would you refuse to land that day? Or keeping below 300’ decent or above 30 knots until very near your pad in a crosswind? Sorry for more questions. No worries if your busy.
NO NO NO not recon the first thing is a power check which will determine if you can get into the area and and what sort of approach the helicopter is capable of. Please dont listen to this man
Great job on the video. As a new helicopter student, this is stuff I need to know. Keep up the great work!
At Northeast Helicopters back in the days, we had an elevated landing pad (30 ft high) to practice precision landings out of ground effect. That was very helpful... Plus we had a fake confined area on the airport area to practice in.
Great Video again Paul. Thanks for taking my call all the way from Australia today... really appreciate your time
Keep in touch!!
I always always learn about something from Paul. Thank you - all your videos are very informative and will no doubt save lives.
Glad you like them! Keep in touch
Keep the videos coming! Another good one. Thank you!
Great video Thanks
Great video sir. Thanks!
Every video has great edits and music sound tracks
Glad you like them!
Great video , maybe someday do a video on where and how to mount GoPros inside and outside R44s 🙏🏼
I took my Commercial check ride about a month ago, including the off-airport approach with a high recon & a low recon orbit at 300 AGL.
In the debrief the DPE said he doesn't recommend a low orbiting recon at 300 AGL for the same reason you don't fly traffic patterns at 300 AGL - no reaction time.
He likes a high recon (of at LEAST 2 orbits) at 500 AGL, then conduct the approach and do the “low recon” on the base leg and final.
BTW, you keep calling it "settling with power." I thought the language police were now calling it "vortex ring state?" ... which is a subset of settling with power.
I refer to it as “settling”, because I can say that faster. With enough time for the student to react. Saying “watch out for main rotor vortex ring state” takes too long. By that time you can be too far into it for me. Besides since the 70’s its always been “settling with power” and I’m too old and stubborn to change now!! Ever heard of “power settling”?
"Power Settling" must be the other thing (besides Vortex Ring State) that's a subset of "Settling with Power?"
Although you always want to land into the wind, not many accidents from downwind landings, though. CFIT and IIMC are the real killers.
Excellent!
Glad you liked it!
1. Always know wind direction from preflight and throughout in-flight visual checks.
2. Downwind deceleration out of ETL is a high probability of vortex ring state IGE and OGE.
3. Be sure to know the Vuichard Method of ring state recovery.
4. In confined space, as much as possible decelerate out of ETL only IGE.
5. In a confined space where there isn't sufficient horizontal opening to allow deceleration out of ETL to IGE, first decelerate out of ETL to IGE nearby, then without re-entry to ETL, hover OGE slowly over the LZ and make a slow VSI vertical descent slower than 200 FPM facing the wind as much as possible. At that rate of descent, entry into ground effect will seem bouncy. Once in ground effect, land from a hover as usual.
Note: Personally, I prefer to scout and plan every potential confined LZ on foot first by whatever means of ground transportation is necessary.
I know strictly speaking and by definition, gyroplanes do not experience transitional lift but is this necessarily totally true? I have often wondered what contributes most to the total lift required to keep a gyroplane aloft. Certainly the rotor speed contributes but the upward flow of the relative wind and its resistance of the total disk area and even flow over the disk and subsequent downwash of that flow also contributes. Lift vs drag at high disk angles such as the beginnings of the take off roll has more to do with shedding the induced drag vs lift which is available. As you endeavor to shed this drag, the aircraft will be allowed to accelerate and climb out. Generally in the 55 to 65 mph range. There are angle of attack and speed combinations which a Gyroplane will be dragged from the air, as you have nicely demonstrated. I might add here, Ken Brock and his desert instructional videos were outstanding in its clarity. Forward speed and proper disk angle with adequate power all are essential. As the debate of what actually makes an airfoil fly has raised its theoretical head once again and concluded that the lift generated by faster moving air over the top of the wing is only partially credited, rotorcraft are far more complex. My question is impossible to answer but it must have to be said that a Gyroplanes transitional lift( Used quite incorrectly ) is at an airspeed where you are no longer behind the power curve and this deals more shedding drag than more with lift.
Good morning young man.
Love your show 🥰
One thing pilots of all experience levels also like to do is low level flying. Don't!
You mentioned 8 knots winds is there any lower wind speed at which you are not as concerned about landing into the wind?
I am always concerned about landing into the wind! I understand your question , but really any amount of wind is significant. It's not only easier to tell which way the wind is blowing the greater the wind velocity, but it's a much greater margin of safety when landing into it. As an example, most Helicopters go through ETL at about 15 -18 knots. If you are landing into a 20 knot wind, you are above ETL all the way to the ground and would never get into settling with power. If you landed with that same wind off the tail you would get into SWP while your aircraft was moving about 20-25 knots forward relative to the ground. If you took your cues for speed by watching the ground and not your airspeed indicator you could would get into SWP at a low altitude with very little time to recognize it and recover. Remember- LAND INTO THE WIND- If you do, you have "nearly" eliminated the risk of getting into SWP. Now, just don't hit anything and you should be fine!! Thanks for the question. Paul
I not sure what the hell caused there to be a line through my comments?
Thanks for taking time to answer my question Paul. I just know that sometimes when landing in certain spots it’s not possible to land into the wind (high obstructions downwind of landing spot) but when winds are light I wondered how strict you were with light winds. Like your new landing pad, if wind was from the tall side of your pad would you refuse to land that day? Or keeping below 300’ decent or above 30 knots until very near your pad in a crosswind? Sorry for more questions. No worries if your busy.
NO NO NO not recon the first thing is a power check which will determine if you can get into the area and and what sort of approach the helicopter is capable of. Please dont listen to this man
Tell us how you do this pre-approach power check?