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Great Video - as per usual - Brother! Oh, and Mentour Pilot, I'm so sorry! I totally forgot to wish A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY September 22! So, better late than never; -A Belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PETTER! I hope you had a great one! 🇸🇪 🇳🇴 😀👍 🎆🎇🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎇🎆🎈🎂🎁🎺🎺🎺⚡💥⚡💥⚡🍀🍀🍀🎀🎆🎉🎉🎉
Another outstanding breakdown of an in-flight emergency. I haven’t seen any other comparable videos as good as yours. Your explanations are very easy to understand while at the same time being very in-depth with regard to aircraft systems. Excellent work!! 👍👍👍
Good news, we have enough money for the fuel. As for the engine, I'm sure it will run perfectly lubricated on this budget sunflower oil we got from the supermarket.
The saddest part is that the first officer recognized the problem but didn't feel confident enough to act and defy the captain, despite knowing this was a life and death situation. It may have made a difference for everyone on board. Very tragic
Apply this cowardn3ss in nations society! And you think your free? Your all controlled slaves who think you got any important and real self decisions! Everyone buy what ever they are told. Latterly to DEATH. THAts frightening as hell to think about, raising a bunch of afraid obedient good and usefulll id....ts and so continue support and back the WRONG AUTHORITY
Yes! I look at my other pilot as my insurance should I possibly make the mistake of my career. Even on that guy’s possibly first day. You just never know when you need your insurance. As I like to fly a bit speedy, I have had situations when the other pilot told me, that he would not feel comfortable. It is important in such situations to actually listen and do something about his concern. Even if it‘s not „fun“. You cannot ignore someone speaking up, ignore the concern but still expect the guy to tell you his concerns on future flights. Discussing manuals, procedures and techniques work best over a beer at the bar in the hotel after the flight. I look at safety like a beautiful flower. You gotta nurture it with constant water, not too much or to little. Regularly. Lots of love always helps, too. Unfortunately, even one stoopid email from someone in the organisation (who may not even be aware of a safety aspect) can cause a lot of damage, which will take time and an effort to rebuild. Super video, thank you.
Thank you, Petter, I was waiting for you to address this tragedy. As a Martiniquais living in Martinique, where we are only 350,000 inhabitants, this event profoundly impacted the entire island. Everyone knew at least one person who was on that flight. Even today, families continue to fight to uncover the real circumstances of this incident and to seek justice.
@@michaelblankenau6598 350000 people is the size of a small city in the USA - Martinique isn't big at all. Sure, not literally 'everyone' will have known at least 1 person on the flight, but most islanders definitely at least knew people who knew people on that flight.
How absolutely heartbreaking that the young First Officer correctly identified the problem with plenty of time left to recover from the stall. I can’t imagine how helpless he must have felt. Knowing they were in a full stall means he knew that they were plummeting to their death for the entire time. He suffered fear the longest. I can’t imagine a situation where the work environment is so untenable, that you wouldn’t fight to save in the very least, your own life. Poor guy. The fact the airline created this environment is nothing short of criminal. RIP to all who lost their lives. It’s always so much sadder when it was a recoverable situation and unneccesary loss of life. 😢
He wasn't helpless, he could have taken over controls and pitched down. If the captain was trying to stop him he could have knocked the captain out and saved the plane.
@@giftofthewild6665for a Colombian born and raised in the 80's, only 21 at the time of the tragedy, it would be practically impossible for him to contradict an elder, it was a cultural thing drilled in their minds to respect them and say "Amen" to any word. It is not the same as now that the youngest can reply and give their opinions.
@@mariaalejandragonzalezmass1788 That´s an important point - but it depends at least as much on the specific personality of a specific human being and on training as on cultural aspects: A very similar case was Crossair Flight 3597 in Switzerland in November 2001, where a young and unexperienced First Officer let the very senior and elderly Captain fly the aircraft into the ground allthough he had obviously identified the danger the aircraft was in, in opposite to the Captain. And this happened in Switzerland in the middle of Europe. So cultural aspects exists of course and they´re important for how a person act or act not. BUT it seems to be overestimated, too: The phenomenon of submissive young FOs letting crash senior Captains the Aircraft while having identifed the failure happened so often in so much culturally so different countries that it must depend on more than "only" cultural aspects.
People have a tendency to lose ownership of a problem once they communicate it. He probably assumed the captain understood, and that there must have been some other issue. If your captain is seemingly aware and working the problem, it would take a lot to think to take over the controls in the middle of an uncertain situation. Once the captain mentioned the engines, it probably confirmed this bias. This is why effective communication and CRM are such important skills.
Having worked for a company that later went bankrupt, the biggest lesson I learned was to get the fck out if an employer misses a salary payment. You don't owe them anything and it's they who owe you, even if you leave. Better to cut your losses and find a job before you are forced go compete with everyone else at the company. It's of course not easy, but situations like this usually don't improve. You accrew u paid salaries and worse, sometimes can be pressured into paying certain things for the company with your own money...run!
Agreed fully. I'm not eating for free and if a company cannot afford to pay it's employees then it cannot afford to run. I would sooner go after them for wage theft than I would work for free.
I mostly agree here though I have seen some exceptions. I've had a few friends that had a missed payment but the company they were at was a decent one that just ran into short term problems and paid them back extra next payday over it. I think a better rule of thumb is figuring out how much trust you have in the company and going from there.
Totally agree. One paycheck, even just one day late. Had to do it just once. Honestly I did let that employer be late, but don't fall into that trap. If it happens once it will happen again.
I really appreciate how you virtually never lay the blame on the crew during these videos. It's important to highlight how structural and systemic failures can allow tragic accidents like this to happen, and I think many other people would be inclined to just point the blame entirely on human (pilot) error here. It speaks of a great level of empathy to understand the kind of stress the pilots and crew might have been dealing with, and how that may have led to a lapse of judgment in a panicked situation such as this. I wish more people approached things like this from such an empathic point of view. Great work.
I respect that viewpoint and to some extent agree. But this accident wasn't from equipment failure, or from bad fuel or unfavorable weather. Nor was it caused by an ATC error or by a rogue co-pilot or passenger interference. Unless pilots want someone else determining for them when they seem too distracted or stressed to fly that day, they are responsible to decide if they're ready to fly and then face whatever consequences follow if they decline to do so. The airline deserves a great deal of blame for creating the conditions which caused the stress, yes. But when a failure of basic airmanship causes an accident, that's on the pilot.
Well they blame it on pilots as if they've been killed in accident they can't speak for themselves which is sick but that's the world we live in it's sad but I try to stay clear of people it winds me up and triggers my severe mental health issues
@@chuckhirman7196 That comes across as harsh but I take your point. I guess Petter’s emphasis is that (in a more perfect world?) airlines themselves have an interest and co-responsibility in the health and competence of pilots. Yes, you should not work for a company that does not pay you, and you should not pilot if you are dead tired from running a restaurant. But on the other hand this airline did not enforce the rest rules and was not up to par with training CRM and other areas. Since falling out of the sky always causes death, you need higher levels of vigilance from all parties. Sadly, not all parts of all airlines are not always so purely motivated, as we see in today’s world.
@@bunglejoy3645that's what I used to believe but after binge watching all these videos, while there are usually systemic reasons that play a major part , it usually is the pilot's mistakes that were the final cause of the accident. I was genuinely shocked at how few crashes were soley caused by mechanical issues. Maybe I was a little naive & assumed all airline pilots were a little bit like Chuck Yeager.....but it's been really depressing lesson for me.
He's just too diplomatic to blame the crews, but I'm not: Pilot is a fecking moron! Even a halfwit who has watched a couple of these videos knows: stall=nose down, speed up! Copilot is a gutless twat who won't take action to save his own life. Darwin awards all around.
i have watched several documentaries about this tragedy, and they consistently focus on the aircraft being overloaded and the poor condition of the airline. however, they often overlook the captain’s inability to recover from a high-altitude stall… keep up the good work sir
There were a couple of very serious Pilot´s Errors which caused the crash: First the altitude setting, which seemed to show that both Pilot´s didn´t know the performance limits of their aircraft. Second the wrong use of the autopilot, which seemed to indicate that both Pilot´s were not aware about the difference between the Pitch and the Thrust Mode in their Autopilot and how the Autopilot actually worked in their aircraft. Third their strange use of Anti-Icing, which is a chapter in its own. Fourth the lack of the Pilots to recognize that their aircraft was flying at its limit, so that they reduced the thrust setting of their aircraft when leveling off at 33000 feet, what indicates again that they didn´t know the performance limits of their aircraft. Fifth the breakdown of communication in the cockpit before and during the emergency. And THEN sixth the Captain´s inability to recover from a high-altitude stall. And finally seventh the First Officer´s lack of proper action in this situation, allthough he had recognized that the aircraft was in a stall and the Captain wasn´t applying the appropriate actions. These were the direct reasons for the crash. The poor conditions at this Airline were of course contributing factors, as well as the lack of oversight from the Civil Aviation Authority. But nothing more. And no: The Aircraft wasn´t overloaded. It could carry that weight. But it could fly only at an altitude of 31000 feet with this weight AND Anti-Icing on. The Pilots let the Aircraft climb to 33000 feet and engaged Anti-Icing, too - and BOTH THINGS TOGETHER were simply too much.
@@gogudelagaze1585 At least not in this case. The conditions inside of this fly-by-night-airline on the edge of bankruptcy were of course horrible, but that´s not an excuse for the chain of deadly mistakes these specific two pilots made.
These productions are so accurate and detailed that it makes a Discovery Channel episode look like a sesamestreet episode. Needles to say I'm hooked on Petter's channel.
"There's going to be a small delay while our company scrounges up some cash for fuel" I'm sure none of the passengers would have stayed on the plane if they knew that
@@221b-l3tstaying when you are not getting paid is crazy, six months is insane. There's like 1/100,000 chance the company doesn't go bankrupt if they start missing payday.
@@jetblackjoy Indeed. For these two pilots it was maybe the way to stay in their profession - 2005 was a rough time in the aviation business in the aftermath of 9/11, allthough looking from afterwards on it it is questionable if it was a good decision.
Waiting at the fuel stand for payment to appear is wild. It's like overspending at a restaurant with friends, and now you have to wait for someone's parents to come bail you out.
It's worse than that. Usually, you don't have to pay up front for the fuel at all. The airline just gets billed for the fuel at the end of the month. So it's like ordering at a restaurant and being told your credit is so bad you have to pay for your order before they'll start cooking it, so you have to wait for someone's parents to bail you out before you can even order.
@@thomasdalton1508 Y la cuenta es mucho más expensiva que cualquier buena comida en un buen restaurante. Imagina repostar en esos tanques, aún sin completarlos, con un buen combustible (el más caro) y en un vehículo que lleva muchísimos más pasajeros (por unidad) y mucho más lejos... sin posibles paradas en la ruta.
Plenty of profitable companies have failed because of bad cash flow. If you don't have enough cash on hand or access to credit for today's expenses, any amount of income next week won't save you.
@@Brian-12345 If you actually have reliable income next week, you should be able to borrow against it easily enough. Cashflow may be what ultimately triggers the collapse, but the cashflow problems arise from deeper problems with the profitability of the company.
I worked graveyards for 4 years and it wasn't until your channel that I even learned about circadian low. Explains so much about my difficulty staying awake at that time, alongside as my later diagnosis of sleep apnea! Didn't help that we kept our dispatch area dark except for the glow of TV and computer screens.
Oddly, a more common definition of circadian low is between 2.00 to 6:00 am rather than the 1:00 am to 3:00 am that Mentour uses. However, my experience is that Mentour is right while 2:00 to 6:00 am is just wrong. Often to avoid heavy traffic I wake up early even at 4:30 am and have never had any issues at this time. I even feel reinvigorated. Unlike, if I drive late at night say between midnight and 1:00 am when I have a few times stopped for a rest or coffee to banish drowsiness.
@@MartinChadwick-xe7gh I think it has a personal deviation. I'm used to work at night, normaly I go to bed at 2am. So my circadian low is 3:00 to 6:00am. (I must rest at this time during long drives to prevent a significant impairment of my reflexes) And my early time to wake up in human shape is 5am.
Some of us are better working nights, and low- light environments. I run 30 watt bulbs in my house, and nightlights for a soft glow. Bright lights just tire my eyes and lower my concentration. I guess we are all built different.
@@MartinChadwick-xe7gh while the vast majority reach a critical point of circadian low between that 2am-6am time range. but that time period can be different for some people when they have a structured sleep/wake schedule, something most pilots don't have.
I am a bush pilot in Africa flying real stick and rudder machines. ( I am also A320 rated and have operated many turbine and piston twins too). I still remember what one of my captains back in the day told me when flying a new type....its just another aeroplane...be it a C150 or a big turbine....apply the same principles of flight! Oversimplification? Maybe....but the basics remain the same! Fly the airplane! Thank you for the video...rxcellent as always!
I live in Colombia and can notice the high grade of detail of your videos as the "Aeronautica civil" building looks exactly as the real building.... Impressive work!!
I was a tour guide in Panama at the time, and I guided a group of visitors from Martinique who took this flying disaster on their return trip...In Panama, we never had this complete information about the causes of this tragic accident. Thank you for this so complete report of the tragedy. A reason why they had used this failing airline is that flights between the Western Caribbean and Latin America come at a very heavy price with the regular airlines.
@@NicolaW72Well that’s all about people and their greediness. Can’t say without knowing those specific people managing/working for the “Tour Operator” company and its internal politics. But I can assure you, not all companies are bad.
@@fixcz Yes, of course. And of course nobody had expected that this specific Flight would end in a Crash. But nevertheless, there were a couple of "red flags", at least for those who were able to recognize them.
My young 15 y/o nephew wants to become an Airline Pilot. He asked me if I had any advice. I told him : practice english, and subscribe to Mentour Pilot. I'm such a cool uncle.
Hope he is able to follow his dreams! There's an amazing range of really thoughtful, carefully-researched air industry safety analysis content on YT between MP, Green Dot Aviation, Disaster Breakdown, Air Safety Institute, blancolirio, & 74Gear for more close-call type incidents. I feel like there's a huge amount would-be and current pilots can do to learn for free here, and hopefully avoid a few of the scarier learn-by-personal-error moments? Obviously IRL experience is something else altogether! But the understanding of human psychology & systems failures that these researchers provide is something that is 100% useful for anybody who's interested in HSE & quality assurance, whatever their industry.
As much as I enjoyed Mayday back in the day,* in terms of information, Petter is so much better it’s not even a close race. I don’t have enough words for how good this channel is. *i.e. the era before I discovered Mentour Pilot
@@tin2001 Absolutely. They clearly have the bigger budget and industry connections (both TV and aviation) to go out and interview people. Though one could argue that by now, Mentour Pilot has at minimum the reputation, and since we can now interview over video inexpensively, the budget to do that, too. With that said, I do enjoy Mentour’s focus on hard facts rather than emotions.
What I love about these videos is that they teach us very real lessons on airmanship. We often end up studying a lot of dry theory for our exams but these lessons i hope will stay in the mind if I ever enter one of these nightmare scenarios.
It's amazing how confirmation bias can form an incorrect mental picture of the situation. I apply this lesson everyday as a mechanic diagnosing problems.
I just want to say I love your videos, super informative. I started watching this channel 7 years ago when I was 16 working on my private pilots license, and I just today completed my IOE training and am going to the line for my first job as an FO. You’ve been like a second instructor in the background all those years so thank you and keep up the good work, I hope you're doing absolutely fantastic
My daughter last night returned safely from Portugal on Ryanair flight many thanks to you and your ‘brothers and sisters’ of the air for your diligence and commitment to safe, comfortable flights for us.
Reminds me so much of Pulkovo 612....gain altitude to avoid storms, increasing angle of attack unbeknownst to the crew, engine flameout, flat descent...terrifying. The feeling of helplessness must have been overwhelming. None of us know what its like to feel that way or how we'd react. In both cases, the planes were at a high enough altitude to have just pitched the nose down to gain speed and restart the engines...but the density of emotion one has to wade through to get to reason sometimes is too thick.
There's no way I can truly imagine what it's like to be in such a situation but having watched all Mentor Pilot videos I feel extremely frustrated that the pilots don't immediately push on that column which seems so obvious... to an armchair pilot with a hindsight vision.
@@AnnaPrzebudzona Seems mad to me too. Stall warning? Get the nose down. It's the first thing I'd be thinking, not a hard to arrive at tricky conclusion. Then again, my limited flying time has mostly been in light aircraft and gliders so the only real option is pitching down.
How on earth could an airline on the brink of bankruptcy and so much capital ruin be allowed this is just a prime example of this flight should never have gotten off the ground. RIP all who died 🙏 Fantastic video Petter ❤
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Absolutely - and not only in monetary terms. It's morally bankrupt to knowingly risk the lives of passengers and crew by flying without any care for safety, and finacially more bankrupt to deal with the consequences of the loss of the people and aircraft - the people mostly, as I understand that compensation of some sort is usually a consequence of reckless behaviour leading to the death of others.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Although obviously the financial consequences of reckless behaviour leading to deaths doesn't apply if your company nname happens to be Pfiser or Moderna..... Kind of like the old story that if you owe the bank a thosand pounds (dollars/Euros RMB whatever) ans can't pay it back, you have a problem, but if you owe the bank a billion, the bank has a problem!
I used to drive Trucks long haul across the US, and I can absolutely confirm "Subtle Incapacitation" is real. I was done with a load being delivered to a place in Los Angeles, and was cleared to drive my rig empty to my home just south of Sacramento for a weekend break. A 7'ish hour long drive in a big rig. I remember getting up and over the Grapevine (a steep mountian pass on Interstate 5 leading into LA) at around 9pm. My next clear memory is looking up from the road in front of me to see the turn approaching leading to my property. I drove for about 6 hours, and recalled exactly none of it. Had cold sweat rolling down my neck from there to my house, lol. Never been more shook up while driving.😅
Yes, damn. With knowing there is no full-scale autopilot in most of the trucks out there, that’s horyfiing. We have really strict rules for truck drivers and their working hours in Europe. It’s monitored by computers in the trucks and there are really high fines for exceeding your allowed driving limits. I suppose you have something similar in the US. But I wasn’t born yesterday, I suppose there are a number of ways how to go around those rules and get out of it without any fine or other consequences :(. The need for profit with no hesitation to break rules by company managers is sometimes really outrageous. And that can be applied to both cases we have here. Glad you are fine and no longer work for that company. Take care.
@@fixcz I'm grateful as well to not be on the road anymore. Work as a crane operator now, so have moved up in life, lol. But that story I shares was actually entirely my fault. We have 11 hour operation limits, that's all drive time. When I finished my load and made it back to my house, that was all within the allowed block of time. The problem was I didn't plan my rest the previous couple of days prior. I was so focused on the upcoming weekend break that I pushed too hard to get home on time. By the time it all went down, I was on autopilot and not thinking clearly. Obviously, as my mind scrubbed out 6 hours of driving on the most traveled freeway in California. The company I worked for was small, but had a nearly spotless reputation for maintained trucks and experienced drivers with good safety records. The problem companies are the massive ones with huge fleets with thousands of drivers. They don't care how tired you are. Work to your allowed time limit or risk losing your job.
@@gmr4life884 Thanks for your explanation. The main thing is you got the lesson and learned from it :). Btw I looked that up and our drivers can drive 9 hours max per day and they have to stop for 45 minutes break every 4,5 hours. There are other rules about resting before, after, during the week, they can extend the driving period to 10 hours with specific conditions, but I don’t want to bother you with that. I’m just curious whether you have mandatory breaks in those 11 hours as well.
@@fixcz From what I remember, we had the ability to drive that entire length of time, it was left up to us. I wasn't under mandatory break requirements. We could take them as needed. As far as the time pressure, we were given reasonsable delivery dates, so could in essence make our own hours and choose our destinations when available.
Pero son fatalmente "silenciosos" Un cáncer, una diabetes, una hipertensión, un alto colesterol matan mejor, pero tardan más Tiempo, te dan oportunidad de analizar la situación.
Hearing "at time zero..." gives me some chills for a while now 😂 Would you consider doing a video on the runway collision in Japan Hadena airport that happened early 2024? Both the facts that it is very recent and also the flawless evacuation makes it an interesting and educational video.
The explanations about power curve, AOA, how lift works and kinetic and potential energy work and so on was very brilliant if simple info. Im currently in the process of taking a PPL so the refresh of such info is of great help!
Glad that you speak about the Circadian rhythm and the graveyeard shift almost everytime in detail. I have no hope of anyone from employer realizing this, as I have started to look else where for a regular shift job. Doing this on a daily basis is just frustrating and effecting my physical and mental healthy in a really bad way 😢
@@davidjr4903 of course but Peter explained that panic can incapacitate humans, I would fully expect a pilot to know how to handle a stall but I suppose people react in wild ways in an emergency
Petter, I’m hoping you’ll get to Air Algérie 5017. The crash was eerily similar to West Caribbean 708. Both were MD-80s, both got “behind the power curve” (and with thrust diminished, the autopilot kept trimming to maintain altitude) and both experienced high-altitude stalls in icing conditions from which the flight crews did not recover. Most perplexingly, in both cases the crews inexplicably kept pulling back on the yoke despite clear stall warnings (stick shaker plus aural “STALL sᴛᴀʟʟ” alerts from the CAWS).
it's incredibly frustrating and sad to see a story of a perfectly working airplane being doomed like this. I learn so much in these videos, all the technical aspects of flying, the physics of it, and very importantly the human nature and psychology part. this all makes it actually very easy to understand even seemingly unbelievably stupid looking pilot actions and not feel the need to blame them, but rather to really emphatise. thank you so much for bringing this rare kind of multifaceted awareness and education to the flight enthusiasts on the internet ♥
Thank you for the great video, Petter. RIP to those lost. It’s a little bit of comfort to know that the passengers and crew were unaware and didn’t have to experience the pain and terror that we often associate with air accidents. 💗
I will never understand why so many pilots would rather die than speak up to their senior captains. If the stall warning is sounding, the stick shaker is active and the plane is falling, how can you just sit back and say "Oh well. I don't want to get scolded by the captain. Guess I will just die". It really baffles me.
I think just like the senior captain, he had complete faith in the captain's experience to the end. He knew what was wrong, but because the captain was active and "doing something" he probably trusted the man on his left with his life more than he did in his own training.
Thats probably not what he was thinking at all, he was thinking how he trusted his captain with his life and the captain must be doing something to correct the situation. Its very common even in our daily lives where we ignore something that we may know is wrong, since we trust the authorities that are doing the wrong thing. Imagine the same situation with your boss at work. They have more experience and you must be missing something they see.
I think the issue is that, if an older, more senior, more experienced colleague doesn't react to your advice, or reacts in a negative way, you implicitly start to doubt yourself and whether you've actually diagnosed the situation correctly. In a situation that's inherently confusing and stressful, you're never 100% sure whether you've figured it out correctly, and a negative response can easily cause you to doubt your analysis.
People have a tendency to lose ownership of a problem once they communicate it. He probably assumed the captain understood, and that there must have been some other issue. If your captain is seemingly aware and working the problem, it would take a lot to think to take over the controls in the middle of an uncertain situation. Once the captain mentioned the engines, it probably confirmed this bias. This is why effective communication and CRM are such important skills. ...And also to remember the guy sitting next to you might be wrong.
Driving during that window is really difficult as well. Recently did an over 12hr, overnight drive to get home and that was absolutely brutal around 0300-0400
and here I am at 4AM not being able to fall asleep. for me, sunrise is brutal, especially when driving. I can drive all night, when the sun rises, it's killing me.
@@laurentiupopa5001 Tiredness is accepted as being more dangerous than being drunk at the wheel. You must stop and take a rest or a coffee if that helps. You must make it clear to your employer that if you so choose to stop that doing this is acting in your company's best interests. It could be that 15 mins is all it takes.
Thank you Mentour for the detailed account. It is incredibly reminiscent of the Pulkovo 612 TU-154, especially in how the co-pilot was very young and couldn’t influence the captain’s actions.
This one hit me really bad and it is one of those you'll never forget. I've met PIC and FO several times before, the last one was me saying bye to both of them from the SKRG terminal windows while they were sitting in the cockpit. FO was really young indeed but a great and very friendly person to talk with. RIP
This is a very sad memory. I´m sorry for you. But they messed it up, and in a shocking way. They were finally responsible not only for killing themselves but also 158 other human beings - beyond all the failures of this scrappy airline. They shouldn´t have been in this cockpit.
In utter shock, I never imagined it would end this way, with the loss of all souls on board. As you pointed out, the airliner shouldn't have been allowed to operate if it couldn't even afford to fuel the plane on time. The first officer should have requested the pilot to push the nose down to recover from the stall.
Every aircraft should carry a library of your videos to refer to in times of trouble. Your knowledge of aircraft and its dynamics is mind boggling and yet you explain it so that anybody that watches can understand. Thanks to you and your team for a 5 star channel.
"We got an all Engine Flameout, what should we do" "Better refer to Mentour Pilot" *continues to watch all related accident videos for 10 hours* "Ok, now we are prepared properly to bring this Bird down" *looks out the window and only sees Trees* *continues to watch all Mentour Pilot Videos related to Terrain Avoidance for another 10 hours*
@@unitrader403 Great comments by everybody! Seems like the "drinking game" should be mandatory. One Mentour Pilot video. Check. One beer/shot down the hatch. Check. Repeat and rinse. Breyoshim? Time to fight about the bottle! cheers! / CS
I am not a nervous flyer or an aspiring pilot. But the videos are still entertaining. But not only that, but is also informative in general, even outside the aero domain.
The bit about the captain being excited about getting a cupcake just made me feel so sad. 😢That little detail caught me off guard, just made this utter tragedy seem closer to home.
One of the best things about this channel is the quality of the graphics and animations, which are done in a way that really helps immerse me in the story. Top work 👍
Great video, yet again. One of the key points from this video that applies to everyone working in any industry and every kind of accident: people in stressful situations will miss obvious things. This is why, for example, in the military people are taught to repeat callouts often, because during combat stress even simple instructions and orders can be easily missed. The first officer should have recognized this and kept repeating that they're stalling, and if the captain still hadn't reacted, he should have taken control and acted himself. When something happens that is not normal, whether at work or anywhere else, do not assume other people notice the same things you do, and vice versa. In high stress situations be as clear as possible while also stating what should be done to fix the situation. And if you see stressed people either freezing up or going into full-autopilot mode and about to do something stupid, prevent it if you can. And, if you're unsure of what is going on, ask for help instead of assuming your picture of the situation is correct.
I really love all the context you gave here. If you just jumped into the accident sequence it would have seemed incredible that the pilots didn’t immediately pitch down and recover. However, it’s much easier to understand how this happened because of your excellent research and story telling.
Hi Petter, I'm not in aviation professionally but have been watching your videos for years now. Really appreciate your way of analysing and explaining them to laymen like me. Learnings from your videos has helped me in applying them in my profession successfully. Your emphasis on crew resource management, safety standards, human psychology are really very helpful for me. Thank you so much and all the best.
I am from Martinique and this tragic accident stay to this day in the memory of every martinican. Everybody here at least know someone whose relatives was in that plane and every 16th of August our thoughts are with the families of the victims. I will now start the video, thanks for sharing
Fantastic video as always! I really appreciate how you focus on the total circumstances, instead of just saying "pilot error" and leaving it at that. So many people just stop looking when they run into the most immediate cause being something that went on in a person's mind (error, mental health, etc) instead of looking into what environmental factors could have contributed to that mental state.
I know there was a lot going on here but, in my limited experience and knowlege of flying/piloting, I have come across the stall situation many times - PUSH THE NOSE DOWN! They had so much altitude and time to do this and could so easily have recovered control of the aircraft, but, as you say constantly, most aviation 'incidents' are the result of many cumulative factors. I just hope there are a LOT of pilots watching your channel who take your lessons to heart, I'm sure that somewhere you have saved lives with what you put out, keep up the good work!
Probably the best description of the power curve I've encountered. I'm a pilot and have never heard such a succinct and clear explanation of the area on the left of the power curve.
How? In my opinion the Captain killed everyone on board when he ignored the FO. His arrogance killed them in a way. So I don't really care if he got to have a cupcake or not, there where probably children aboard.
@@221b-l3t Because it shows him as a human too, and having to make ends meet due to not being paid I believe he wouldn't buy "frivolous" things, like a cupcake, with his own money.
Even in hangglider education, one rule was hammered into our heads: "speed is safety!" True for any kind of aircraft... It was almost a physical pain to see the pilot pulling instead of pushing 😱
Great video as always, Petter! If I'm not mistaken stall revocery manoeuver (pitch down, add thrust) is something pilots practise for hours in their first PPL training in, say, a Cessna 172. How much of the muscle memory that this must build is worn off by years of flying commercial aircraft where lots of other emergency procedures become important? Not that this would have helped here as the Captain clearly didn't even register that they were in a stall.
That is the main point in this case: he suffered from the confirmation bias that his aircraft had an engine problem and ignored all contradicting information - the stall-warning, the stickshaker, the hint of his FO. He was in the tunnel and never went out of it.
Great video! As a private pilot student, I don't understand why professional airline pilots would need to do 'training' on how to recover from a stall, which is what they would have learned from day 1 as student pilots.
Remember that training is something that needs to be done repeatedly, so that you can do the action instinctively when needed. Assume that is why commercial pilots have to regularly undergo simulator training. It is not every day that they need to recover from a stall, but on the one day it is needed it is critical that they do it correctly.
@@mariomenezes1153 Point well taken. I guess from my perspective it's drilled into me over and over. But maybe when you're a pilot with 10,000 hours and you're focused on all the intricacies of handling a complex jet, you forget the basics.
@@kevinklassen4328 And you have 200 to 400 lives depending on you. Not to mention multi millions of dollars of aircraft as well as regulators. They tend to get finicky about safety 😊
In addition to initial pilot training, they need stall recovery training specific to the aircraft they're flying at every stage of their careers and at every stage of flight.
"Including a Cupcake, which the Captian was very happy about" I don't know why, but hearing this just rapidly humanized the captain for me. I went "I love cupcakes too!" then all of a sudden I remembered how most of these tales end and got really sad realizing that a man who is going through hell got really happy about a simple cupcake, then had to deal with *this*
I am not from the aviation industry. I am a business consultant. My game is scientific management in administrative settings. My academic background is hospital management and before that, science. Biology. I can't get enough of videos on this channel. I LOVE the learning but, more importantly, I see the relevance of 1. Respecting the laws of nature together with 2. Never neglecting complexity; physics won't wait for you to remember all factors AND 3. the human element thrown in the mix. These concepts and learning points are relevant everywhere - whether it's the safety of people or the safety of financial P&L. That said, and since it's Sunday morning now, I would love to be quizzed on the body of pilot knowledge just to see how much I picked from watching these videos :) I should easily score 20% hahaha
09:14 - AMAZING foreshadowing. And, as far as I can remember, this isn't the first time that something like this has happened because the PIC got too full of himself (e.g., Airblue 202, Air France 296Q etc.). As someone who recreates air disasters for content myself, I really like the way you tell these stories and break down important facts that one would need to be able to properly understand the accident. This is a well crafted video and I enjoy your content -- I often listen to it in the background while gaming or have it on picture in picture. Keep it up, Petter!
30:08 crazy - the very people who designed a plane that would get behind the power curve without warning anybody and would maintain autopilot angle of attack throughout an approach to stall ended up taking over the management of Boeing and now Boeing had the issues it has. Seems like a coincidence.
In my book, "Uplift" I wrote about passengers asking me if I ever get bored during cruise flight. It is impossible to describe, in a short answer, all these dynamic threats (such as Peter so clearly describes here) that exist during flight at high altitude. There are so many. I could only shrug and say: "Trust me. Boring is good. You wouldn't like exciting!" This tragedy is a sad illustration of a flight quickly becoming 'exciting.' Sad outcome.
As an anesthesiologist, I got asked the same question, we are physically active during induction and emergence (not to be confused with emergency), other than that we’re mostly monitoring and doing little adjustments here and there on the workstation. I often joke my job is 99% boredom /1% panic. So, yes, boring is good!
Very welcome to mentour, yet another video podcast and I hope you are doing absolutely fantastic! ❤ watching you since the first officer programs video 9 years ago - I’m still not an airline pilot yet but I needed to work to save money for my training. I just finished my PPLs :) i wanna thank you mentour for your videos - they have helped me In not just aviation knowledge and entertainment but in a lot of aspects of life. I have immense respect for you and even my dad (a commercial ship captain) watches your video and loves them. Thank you
6:46 Wow. Safety violations, unable to pay fines, deadly crash beforehand, unable to pay pilots, failing to pay for a weather report, barely old enough to fly copilot paired with an exhausted pilot, unable to pay for the fuel for the flight...that airline is looking really bad, even before takeoff.
I stopped at almost the exact same time to stop and comment pretty much the same thing, what did they do with the probably little revenue they did get, immediately blow it on booze and escorts? They didn't have anything left over for operations.
So many of these accidents related by Petter show a pilot in command who seems to have forgotten all basic flying skills and have no ability to fly themselves out of the situation (that they have usually put themselves in). Yesterday it was a 62 year old 757 captain with a gazillion hours who didn't or couldn't correct a stall....doesn't matter how many thousands of hours of monitoring instruments or inputting autopilot controls a person has, if they can't actually FLY the plane....
This takes me completely by surprise, I expected the next episode next Sunday. Now, lemme find my popcorn and enjoy😁😎! Thanks Petter🤲. Are we switching to weekly releases going forward?
No, not quite but given the extra influx of Patreons, we have now managed to expand the team enough to create 1 extra video per month on both channels.. so there will be releases 3 weeks in a row, then a week of rest on MP.
This accident was so bad, that it not only took West Caribbean out, but the inspection by the Colombian Civil Aviation Authority on passenger airlines, forced “Intercontinental de aviación”to shut down also. As a Colombian I’m very wary of Colombian startups airlines and just stick to AVIANCA. Just last year VIVA and ULTRA were going the same way of West Caribbean (Specifically not paying crew on time and not having insurance money) but thankfully the Civil Aviation Authority grounded them before any fatalities occurred. (ULTRA ceasing operations and filed for bankruptcy the minute their insurance expired)
@@heidirabenau511 Haven’t had the chance, but yes I would. They are an all Airbus a320 series and pretty much harmonized with LATAM standards, which is a Legacy carrier. They took over AIRES, which allows them to display the Colombian flag. But I wouldn’t fly AIRES in their day (look for AIRES Flight 8250, it’s the typical case of a Colombian regional airline trying to operate jets).
@@dapylot1227 It’s the succesor of AeroRepública, which was I think the first actual ULCC in the Country. Before that ultra high density cabins were not a thing. We used to call it “Aero Mariachi” in a somewhat derogatory but affectionate way. That was because of two things: Mariachi is very popular in Bogotá, but the bands used to move around in vans packed so tightly that the musicians had to carry their instruments hanging from the windows (specially the Guitarrón) and also their deep purple with white and gold stripes logo, as well as their liveries resembled a “Charro” suit. They would pinch every penny they could. They had a lot of minor incidents that you wouldn’t find in the press today. If more people knew about aviation I think it would be called the “MEL airline”. Any investigation their defense was “The MEL was fulfilled”. Lavatories light not working? Here’s a lantern, the flight(s) won’t be delayed because of that. One side of the cabin ceiling lights not working? Not in the MEL. A backseat collapsed? We’ll take that piece out and block the seat. I at least commend them on following the safety regulations but think some of that culture continues with WINGO today, but with COPA overseeing their operation pretty sure they at least take safety seriously. Anyway WINGO is mostly a holiday airline and has little to none spare capacity, with many destinations served once daily and if there’s a problem with your flight, you are in for a long delay.
I get that airline training is different than private, but all these stories about stalls or near stalls where the crew just won't put the nose down make me crazy. My training pounded it into my brain: nose down full power, nose down full power (and then clean up the aircraft if you weren't clean already). It's like they're more worried about busting their flight level than about actually getting the air going over the wings the right way.
Stall recovery in a light aircraft low altitude is very easy, you recover very quickly with only a few hundred feet of altitude lost. The problem when you stall at very high altitude is that the recovery from stall requires a much more dramatic input from the flight crew and may require the loss of thousands of feet in altitude before safe flight can be recovered. If the flight crew had not been trained for this they may well not have realised how different a high altitude stall is.
So sad but critical we learn from a tragedy . As always Petter your explanations make a laymen understand ( a bit ) as to why these things occur. thanks again.
I think we may well have missed the point here. The specific flight details are interesting but not critical. This pilot combination, over time, made a crash almost inevitable.
For someone who wants to be a pilot like me (hope I can begin my private pilot course next year), your channel is absolutely fantastic. Your channel is the most technically detailed channel about aviation I've seen on the hole youtube. Every aspect of the aircraft operation explained as deeply as possible and yet comprehensible for everyone, even for those who are only amateurs in this topic. Congratulations, greetings from Brazil.
These videos are getting better and better! Especially, the VFX was really great mixed with that orange flash during the explosion. I'm telling you as an editor, it is really great work! Congrats to you and your team!
I've been on a flight (WIZZAIR) with A321 flying on a cruise altitude and the angle of attack was SO HIGH that literally scared me, it was so much visible from the aircraft that in order to walk towards the front of the aircraft was needed a real climb, was super steep. I was scared and thought to ask the crew to check with pilot but thought I'd be ignored.
Wing anti-ice at FL330? Really? These guys were really “asleep at the wheel”. If ever needing to fly at Max altitude, (something you always try to avoid), I’d say to my FO - “No distractions- we MUST watch the speed. If we hit minimum drag speed, we will NOT fly slower than that, even if we have to descend slightly to maintain that speed.” What a sad story. I hadn’t heard of this one, so damn preventable!
Indeed. The most disturbing aspect of it is that the Pilots seemed to have had a lack of technical understanding not only how their specific aircraft worked but also how flying an aircraft works in general. Not only in matter of icing but also in a couple of other points, e.g. the relationship between the weight of the aircraft and the ability to fly at a specific altitude or the relationship between the angle of attack and the speed. That is disturbing because as a passenger you simply expect that your pilots know matters like these. When questioning how this could be it´s worth remembering that this Airline was fined some month before this crash for providing insufficient training to their crews. No wonder if it was not even able to pay their crews for half a year. But nevertheless: Pilots with a CPL or even an ATPL have to know such things, for the safety of all on board. I stumbled some years ago over this crash because there´s still an association of relatives of the Deceased active and in 2022 a memorial for the victims was erected in Paris (151 of the 152 passengers were French citizens from the island of Martinique).
I’m an old fart that can say he’s been flying the DC-9 (as passenger, not pilot) since the 1960’s. I never liked it then whether it’s because it was so horribly noisy with those body mounted engines, the ride was always bumpy. I couldn’t begin to count the number of times the roller coaster turbulence had my seat belts pulling me into the seat to keep from negative g forces. But as Peter explains, it’s also an inherently unstable platform at max altitude when coupled by an AP that won’t disengage is just silly and hard to explain for a type that had been in service for 30+ years, so I like it even less now. Amazing and great video once again guys. I know you have a whole team that does these and you guys put out amazing stories. Thanks for all you do.
I am from Guadeloupe, the sister island, I remember this horrible moment very vividly…😢 Thank you for your explanation. It makes much more sense to me now 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Couldn't agree more! The more you see all the things the pilots have got to stay on top of, you can feel for yourself the importance of being well rested and in a good state of mind. Unfortunately in this case it added up to RIP for something that could have been avoided. Petter's videos are top notch because he explains things like no other incident channel I've seen. Watching his channel has given me great respect for what the pilots have to do. Thanks again, Captain for another great although sad video.
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Peter make a video about bs211
Check out the Caribbean Airlines crash which was very silent to the world
Great Video - as per usual - Brother! Oh, and Mentour Pilot, I'm so sorry! I totally forgot to wish A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY September 22! So, better late than never;
-A Belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PETTER! I hope you had a great one!
🇸🇪 🇳🇴 😀👍
🎆🎇🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎇🎆🎈🎂🎁🎺🎺🎺⚡💥⚡💥⚡🍀🍀🍀🎀🎆🎉🎉🎉
I have had Nord VPN for almost a year. Does your codes work for renewals?
Another outstanding breakdown of an in-flight emergency. I haven’t seen any other comparable videos as good as yours. Your explanations are very easy to understand while at the same time being very in-depth with regard to aircraft systems. Excellent work!! 👍👍👍
Good grief! If your flight is delayed, the last thing to enter your head is “I wonder if the airline can afford the fuel?”
Yeah.. it’s pretty bad
Good news, we have enough money for the fuel.
As for the engine, I'm sure it will run perfectly lubricated on this budget sunflower oil we got from the supermarket.
It should be. This is a surprisingly common reason for delay
That is not that unusual. I can recall taking less fuel to get paid per diem in advance.
@@MentourPilot It must be corruption at a certain level for that to be allowed to happen.
I watched so many Mentour Pilot videos when I'm eating so now my brain has become conditioned to get hungry when a new video is released.
Hahaha! That’s a first
@@MentourPilothe Pavloved himself 😂
@@LittleWaffle I did 😂
Hey I do this too ! Just had my beef and cabbage stew while watching this one
That's funny and human
The saddest part is that the first officer recognized the problem but didn't feel confident enough to act and defy the captain, despite knowing this was a life and death situation. It may have made a difference for everyone on board. Very tragic
Yep! This is why I keep pushing for younger pilots to ALWAYS speak up.
@@MentourPilot Agreed. Even if the young pilot got it wrong, the older pilot will correct them and they will learn.
Apply this cowardn3ss in nations society! And you think your free? Your all controlled slaves who think you got any important and real self decisions! Everyone buy what ever they are told. Latterly to DEATH. THAts frightening as hell to think about, raising a bunch of afraid obedient good and usefulll id....ts and so continue support and back the WRONG AUTHORITY
Would Petter have been able to convince the captain he was making a mistake?
Or even persuade him to do something different?
Yes! I look at my other pilot as my insurance should I possibly make the mistake of my career. Even on that guy’s possibly first day. You just never know when you need your insurance.
As I like to fly a bit speedy, I have had situations when the other pilot told me, that he would not feel comfortable. It is important in such situations to actually listen and do something about his concern. Even if it‘s not „fun“.
You cannot ignore someone speaking up, ignore the concern but still expect the guy to tell you his concerns on future flights.
Discussing manuals, procedures and techniques work best over a beer at the bar in the hotel after the flight.
I look at safety like a beautiful flower. You gotta nurture it with constant water, not too much or to little. Regularly. Lots of love always helps, too.
Unfortunately, even one stoopid email from someone in the organisation (who may not even be aware of a safety aspect) can cause a lot of damage, which will take time and an effort to rebuild.
Super video, thank you.
Thank you, Petter, I was waiting for you to address this tragedy. As a Martiniquais living in Martinique, where we are only 350,000 inhabitants, this event profoundly impacted the entire island. Everyone knew at least one person who was on that flight. Even today, families continue to fight to uncover the real circumstances of this incident and to seek justice.
Hopefully, those families that are seeking answers can now get some closure.
I doubt very much that everyone on the island knew at least one person on the flight . Where do you get your information ?
@@michaelblankenau6598 350000 people is the size of a small city in the USA - Martinique isn't big at all. Sure, not literally 'everyone' will have known at least 1 person on the flight, but most islanders definitely at least knew people who knew people on that flight.
@@michaelblankenau6598 No need to be so literal
Easy now @@michaelblankenau6598
How absolutely heartbreaking that the young First Officer correctly identified the problem with plenty of time left to recover from the stall. I can’t imagine how helpless he must have felt. Knowing they were in a full stall means he knew that they were plummeting to their death for the entire time. He suffered fear the longest.
I can’t imagine a situation where the work environment is so untenable, that you wouldn’t fight to save in the very least, your own life. Poor guy. The fact the airline created this environment is nothing short of criminal.
RIP to all who lost their lives. It’s always so much sadder when it was a recoverable situation and unneccesary loss of life. 😢
He wasn't helpless, he could have taken over controls and pitched down. If the captain was trying to stop him he could have knocked the captain out and saved the plane.
@@giftofthewild6665for a Colombian born and raised in the 80's, only 21 at the time of the tragedy, it would be practically impossible for him to contradict an elder, it was a cultural thing drilled in their minds to respect them and say "Amen" to any word. It is not the same as now that the youngest can reply and give their opinions.
@@mariaalejandragonzalezmass1788 That´s an important point - but it depends at least as much on the specific personality of a specific human being and on training as on cultural aspects: A very similar case was Crossair Flight 3597 in Switzerland in November 2001, where a young and unexperienced First Officer let the very senior and elderly Captain fly the aircraft into the ground allthough he had obviously identified the danger the aircraft was in, in opposite to the Captain. And this happened in Switzerland in the middle of Europe.
So cultural aspects exists of course and they´re important for how a person act or act not. BUT it seems to be overestimated, too: The phenomenon of submissive young FOs letting crash senior Captains the Aircraft while having identifed the failure happened so often in so much culturally so different countries that it must depend on more than "only" cultural aspects.
People have a tendency to lose ownership of a problem once they communicate it. He probably assumed the captain understood, and that there must have been some other issue. If your captain is seemingly aware and working the problem, it would take a lot to think to take over the controls in the middle of an uncertain situation. Once the captain mentioned the engines, it probably confirmed this bias.
This is why effective communication and CRM are such important skills.
@@giftofthewild6665ridiculous comment
Having worked for a company that later went bankrupt, the biggest lesson I learned was to get the fck out if an employer misses a salary payment. You don't owe them anything and it's they who owe you, even if you leave. Better to cut your losses and find a job before you are forced go compete with everyone else at the company.
It's of course not easy, but situations like this usually don't improve. You accrew u paid salaries and worse, sometimes can be pressured into paying certain things for the company with your own money...run!
Fancy seeing you here... Love your channel!
Agreed fully. I'm not eating for free and if a company cannot afford to pay it's employees then it cannot afford to run. I would sooner go after them for wage theft than I would work for free.
I mostly agree here though I have seen some exceptions. I've had a few friends that had a missed payment but the company they were at was a decent one that just ran into short term problems and paid them back extra next payday over it. I think a better rule of thumb is figuring out how much trust you have in the company and going from there.
Totally agree. One paycheck, even just one day late. Had to do it just once. Honestly I did let that employer be late, but don't fall into that trap. If it happens once it will happen again.
Good advice! I had to learn that the hard way. Never again.
One thing I learned from watching your video is there is no shortcut for safety. Also the health of all the crews are as important as safety.
Never
@@MentourPilothey can you cover the crash of china eastern flight 5735 please I would love to see it.
%100
@@TilesOnFloor I don’t think the final report has been released yet.
@@puranjandev7915 They're saying it's PS=Pilot Suicide.
I really appreciate how you virtually never lay the blame on the crew during these videos. It's important to highlight how structural and systemic failures can allow tragic accidents like this to happen, and I think many other people would be inclined to just point the blame entirely on human (pilot) error here. It speaks of a great level of empathy to understand the kind of stress the pilots and crew might have been dealing with, and how that may have led to a lapse of judgment in a panicked situation such as this. I wish more people approached things like this from such an empathic point of view. Great work.
I respect that viewpoint and to some extent agree. But this accident wasn't from equipment failure, or from bad fuel or unfavorable weather. Nor was it caused by an ATC error or by a rogue co-pilot or passenger interference. Unless pilots want someone else determining for them when they seem too distracted or stressed to fly that day, they are responsible to decide if they're ready to fly and then face whatever consequences follow if they decline to do so. The airline deserves a great deal of blame for creating the conditions which caused the stress, yes. But when a failure of basic airmanship causes an accident, that's on the pilot.
Well they blame it on pilots as if they've been killed in accident they can't speak for themselves which is sick but that's the world we live in it's sad but I try to stay clear of people it winds me up and triggers my severe mental health issues
@@chuckhirman7196 That comes across as harsh but I take your point. I guess Petter’s emphasis is that (in a more perfect world?) airlines themselves have an interest and co-responsibility in the health and competence of pilots. Yes, you should not work for a company that does not pay you, and you should not pilot if you are dead tired from running a restaurant. But on the other hand this airline did not enforce the rest rules and was not up to par with training CRM and other areas. Since falling out of the sky always causes death, you need higher levels of vigilance from all parties. Sadly, not all parts of all airlines are not always so purely motivated, as we see in today’s world.
@@bunglejoy3645that's what I used to believe but after binge watching all these videos, while there are usually systemic reasons that play a major part , it usually is the pilot's mistakes that were the final cause of the accident.
I was genuinely shocked at how few crashes were soley caused by mechanical issues.
Maybe I was a little naive & assumed all airline pilots were a little bit like Chuck Yeager.....but it's been really depressing lesson for me.
He's just too diplomatic to blame the crews, but I'm not: Pilot is a fecking moron! Even a halfwit who has watched a couple of these videos knows: stall=nose down, speed up! Copilot is a gutless twat who won't take action to save his own life. Darwin awards all around.
i have watched several documentaries about this tragedy, and they consistently focus on the aircraft being overloaded and the poor condition of the airline. however, they often overlook the captain’s inability to recover from a high-altitude stall…
keep up the good work sir
There were a couple of very serious Pilot´s Errors which caused the crash: First the altitude setting, which seemed to show that both Pilot´s didn´t know the performance limits of their aircraft. Second the wrong use of the autopilot, which seemed to indicate that both Pilot´s were not aware about the difference between the Pitch and the Thrust Mode in their Autopilot and how the Autopilot actually worked in their aircraft. Third their strange use of Anti-Icing, which is a chapter in its own. Fourth the lack of the Pilots to recognize that their aircraft was flying at its limit, so that they reduced the thrust setting of their aircraft when leveling off at 33000 feet, what indicates again that they didn´t know the performance limits of their aircraft. Fifth the breakdown of communication in the cockpit before and during the emergency. And THEN sixth the Captain´s inability to recover from a high-altitude stall. And finally seventh the First Officer´s lack of proper action in this situation, allthough he had recognized that the aircraft was in a stall and the Captain wasn´t applying the appropriate actions.
These were the direct reasons for the crash. The poor conditions at this Airline were of course contributing factors, as well as the lack of oversight from the Civil Aviation Authority. But nothing more.
And no: The Aircraft wasn´t overloaded. It could carry that weight. But it could fly only at an altitude of 31000 feet with this weight AND Anti-Icing on. The Pilots let the Aircraft climb to 33000 feet and engaged Anti-Icing, too - and BOTH THINGS TOGETHER were simply too much.
Indeed. Personally, I view any kind of accident caused by a high-altitude stall as a human error. And I would further say inexcusable.
@@gogudelagaze1585 At least not in this case. The conditions inside of this fly-by-night-airline on the edge of bankruptcy were of course horrible, but that´s not an excuse for the chain of deadly mistakes these specific two pilots made.
These productions are so accurate and detailed that it makes a Discovery Channel episode look like a sesamestreet episode. Needles to say I'm hooked on Petter's channel.
Bad analogy. Sesame Street is a quality production and always has been
Haha. Discovery channel also dramatizes too much imo.
Oh, the Attenborough voice 😂😆😖
"There's going to be a small delay while our company scrounges up some cash for fuel" I'm sure none of the passengers would have stayed on the plane if they knew that
Indeed, exactly. And probably it would have been at least questionable if the Tour Operator would have booked them with this Airline.
"Don't worry the pilots may soon get paid for the first time in months, if they don't complain too much!"
@@221b-l3tstaying when you are not getting paid is crazy, six months is insane. There's like 1/100,000 chance the company doesn't go bankrupt if they start missing payday.
Some don't have much choice or maybe just consider it a norm
@@jetblackjoy Indeed. For these two pilots it was maybe the way to stay in their profession - 2005 was a rough time in the aviation business in the aftermath of 9/11, allthough looking from afterwards on it it is questionable if it was a good decision.
I like the bar at the top you've started using as an indicator of how much time is left in the sponsor block.
Happy to hear that
@@MentourPilot I agree with the message above too.
Yep, very cool. Not sure why you need sponsors when noone watches their ads
@@redboyjan I do! Petter slides into the ad so smoothly I don't even realise it. I now have 4 vpn subscriptions.
@@selseyonetwenty4631 I caught the geoblocking thing first second... "Oh, I know what's coming" 😂
Waiting at the fuel stand for payment to appear is wild. It's like overspending at a restaurant with friends, and now you have to wait for someone's parents to come bail you out.
It's worse than that. Usually, you don't have to pay up front for the fuel at all. The airline just gets billed for the fuel at the end of the month. So it's like ordering at a restaurant and being told your credit is so bad you have to pay for your order before they'll start cooking it, so you have to wait for someone's parents to bail you out before you can even order.
@@thomasdalton1508 Y la cuenta es mucho más expensiva que cualquier buena comida en un buen restaurante. Imagina repostar en esos tanques, aún sin completarlos, con un buen combustible (el más caro) y en un vehículo que lleva muchísimos más pasajeros (por unidad) y mucho más lejos... sin posibles paradas en la ruta.
I remember one case where the crew hat to borrow money from the passengers to pay for the fuel
Plenty of profitable companies have failed because of bad cash flow. If you don't have enough cash on hand or access to credit for today's expenses, any amount of income next week won't save you.
@@Brian-12345 If you actually have reliable income next week, you should be able to borrow against it easily enough. Cashflow may be what ultimately triggers the collapse, but the cashflow problems arise from deeper problems with the profitability of the company.
I worked graveyards for 4 years and it wasn't until your channel that I even learned about circadian low. Explains so much about my difficulty staying awake at that time, alongside as my later diagnosis of sleep apnea! Didn't help that we kept our dispatch area dark except for the glow of TV and computer screens.
Oddly, a more common definition of circadian low is between 2.00 to 6:00 am rather than the 1:00 am to 3:00 am that Mentour uses. However, my experience is that Mentour is right while 2:00 to 6:00 am is just wrong. Often to avoid heavy traffic I wake up early even at 4:30 am and have never had any issues at this time. I even feel reinvigorated. Unlike, if I drive late at night say between midnight and 1:00 am when I have a few times stopped for a rest or coffee to banish drowsiness.
@@MartinChadwick-xe7gh I think it has a personal deviation. I'm used to work at night, normaly I go to bed at 2am. So my circadian low is 3:00 to 6:00am. (I must rest at this time during long drives to prevent a significant impairment of my reflexes) And my early time to wake up in human shape is 5am.
Some of us are better working nights, and low- light environments. I run 30 watt bulbs in my house, and nightlights for a soft glow. Bright lights just tire my eyes and lower my concentration. I guess we are all built different.
@@staceyloeffler6795 That's just a sign that you should be sleeping instead of working.
@@MartinChadwick-xe7gh while the vast majority reach a critical point of circadian low between that 2am-6am time range. but that time period can be different for some people when they have a structured sleep/wake schedule, something most pilots don't have.
I am a bush pilot in Africa flying real stick and rudder machines. ( I am also A320 rated and have operated many turbine and piston twins too). I still remember what one of my captains back in the day told me when flying a new type....its just another aeroplane...be it a C150 or a big turbine....apply the same principles of flight! Oversimplification? Maybe....but the basics remain the same! Fly the airplane! Thank you for the video...rxcellent as always!
"Aviate" I think comes in front of "communicate"
I live in Colombia and can notice the high grade of detail of your videos as the "Aeronautica civil" building looks exactly as the real building.... Impressive work!!
iam allways thinking in the Trash of airplanes that Aerosucre is flying ..and allways starting allways direktly over the City Bogota
@@albertolopez8859 Aerosucre is another topic here on this channel.
@@NicolaW72 if you like,, lock the Docu ...Colombia : Pilots of the Amazon ....i put the link but YT has deleted my post
Not sure why there's a Nagasaki City bus at an airport in Panama though :)
and yet a terminal bus was from a japanese airport...
I was a tour guide in Panama at the time, and I guided a group of visitors from Martinique who took this flying disaster on their return trip...In Panama, we never had this complete information about the causes of this tragic accident. Thank you for this so complete report of the tragedy. A reason why they had used this failing airline is that flights between the Western Caribbean and Latin America come at a very heavy price with the regular airlines.
Lo "barato" siempre sale caro (no lo dije yo)
Debe ser por el monopolio de COPA
I´m wondering if the Tour Operator would have chosen this airline if he would have known what was going on inside of it.
@@NicolaW72Well that’s all about people and their greediness. Can’t say without knowing those specific people managing/working for the “Tour Operator” company and its internal politics.
But I can assure you, not all companies are bad.
@@fixcz Yes, of course. And of course nobody had expected that this specific Flight would end in a Crash. But nevertheless, there were a couple of "red flags", at least for those who were able to recognize them.
These vids come at midnight in Philippines too, dont worry. I watch when its my favorite youtuber!
Excellent!
You can probably relate very well to the window of circadian low.
@@Outworlder yeah, i just hope i dont fall asleep with my phone on or when i wake up its dead XD
My young 15 y/o nephew wants to become an Airline Pilot. He asked me if I had any advice. I told him : practice english, and subscribe to Mentour Pilot. I'm such a cool uncle.
Lol. That you are.
Hope he is able to follow his dreams! There's an amazing range of really thoughtful, carefully-researched air industry safety analysis content on YT between MP, Green Dot Aviation, Disaster Breakdown, Air Safety Institute, blancolirio, & 74Gear for more close-call type incidents. I feel like there's a huge amount would-be and current pilots can do to learn for free here, and hopefully avoid a few of the scarier learn-by-personal-error moments?
Obviously IRL experience is something else altogether! But the understanding of human psychology & systems failures that these researchers provide is something that is 100% useful for anybody who's interested in HSE & quality assurance, whatever their industry.
Coincidentally I just watched the Mayday episode for this crash. Your explanation is better with much more detail. Thank you.
As much as I enjoyed Mayday back in the day,* in terms of information, Petter is so much better it’s not even a close race. I don’t have enough words for how good this channel is.
*i.e. the era before I discovered Mentour Pilot
@@tookitogo
Completely agree... Although I do like hearing the survivors, investigators, rescuers, etc all give little personal details about it too.
Mayday just seems to milk these incidents for drama.
@@tin2001 Absolutely. They clearly have the bigger budget and industry connections (both TV and aviation) to go out and interview people. Though one could argue that by now, Mentour Pilot has at minimum the reputation, and since we can now interview over video inexpensively, the budget to do that, too.
With that said, I do enjoy Mentour’s focus on hard facts rather than emotions.
What I love about these videos is that they teach us very real lessons on airmanship. We often end up studying a lot of dry theory for our exams but these lessons i hope will stay in the mind if I ever enter one of these nightmare scenarios.
Actually not only lessons for pilots also some messages for people in other jobs and in general for life 👌
@@Antizokker Indeed, exactly.
It's amazing how confirmation bias can form an incorrect mental picture of the situation. I apply this lesson everyday as a mechanic diagnosing problems.
%100
Another brilliant production.
Agreed
I just want to say I love your videos, super informative. I started watching this channel 7 years ago when I was 16 working on my private pilots license, and I just today completed my IOE training and am going to the line for my first job as an FO. You’ve been like a second instructor in the background all those years so thank you and keep up the good work, I hope you're doing absolutely fantastic
The understanding of human psychology in the airline industry is second to none, really fascinating how you explore it
Avoid flying as much as you can.
@@lcfflc3887 why would I do that? I could die in a car crash or in my bed, plane turbulence is like a great rollercoaster.
My daughter last night returned safely from Portugal on Ryanair flight many thanks to you and your ‘brothers and sisters’ of the air for your diligence and commitment to safe, comfortable flights for us.
Reminds me so much of Pulkovo 612....gain altitude to avoid storms, increasing angle of attack unbeknownst to the crew, engine flameout, flat descent...terrifying. The feeling of helplessness must have been overwhelming. None of us know what its like to feel that way or how we'd react. In both cases, the planes were at a high enough altitude to have just pitched the nose down to gain speed and restart the engines...but the density of emotion one has to wade through to get to reason sometimes is too thick.
There's no way I can truly imagine what it's like to be in such a situation but having watched all Mentor Pilot videos I feel extremely frustrated that the pilots don't immediately push on that column which seems so obvious... to an armchair pilot with a hindsight vision.
@@AnnaPrzebudzona Seems mad to me too. Stall warning? Get the nose down. It's the first thing I'd be thinking, not a hard to arrive at tricky conclusion. Then again, my limited flying time has mostly been in light aircraft and gliders so the only real option is pitching down.
exactly my first thought!
"Stay in school, kids." 👍🏻
Exactly
How on earth could an airline on the brink of bankruptcy and so much capital ruin be allowed this is just a prime example of this flight should never have gotten off the ground. RIP all who died 🙏 Fantastic video Petter ❤
I completely agree
Columbia. That's how
Would not flying help them be less bankrupt?
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Absolutely - and not only in monetary terms. It's morally bankrupt to knowingly risk the lives of passengers and crew by flying without any care for safety, and finacially more bankrupt to deal with the consequences of the loss of the people and aircraft - the people mostly, as I understand that compensation of some sort is usually a consequence of reckless behaviour leading to the death of others.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Although obviously the financial consequences of reckless behaviour leading to deaths doesn't apply if your company nname happens to be Pfiser or Moderna..... Kind of like the old story that if you owe the bank a thosand pounds (dollars/Euros RMB whatever) ans can't pay it back, you have a problem, but if you owe the bank a billion, the bank has a problem!
I used to drive Trucks long haul across the US, and I can absolutely confirm "Subtle Incapacitation" is real.
I was done with a load being delivered to a place in Los Angeles, and was cleared to drive my rig empty to my home just south of Sacramento for a weekend break. A 7'ish hour long drive in a big rig.
I remember getting up and over the Grapevine (a steep mountian pass on Interstate 5 leading into LA) at around 9pm.
My next clear memory is looking up from the road in front of me to see the turn approaching leading to my property. I drove for about 6 hours, and recalled exactly none of it.
Had cold sweat rolling down my neck from there to my house, lol. Never been more shook up while driving.😅
Damn
Yes, damn. With knowing there is no full-scale autopilot in most of the trucks out there, that’s horyfiing. We have really strict rules for truck drivers and their working hours in Europe. It’s monitored by computers in the trucks and there are really high fines for exceeding your allowed driving limits. I suppose you have something similar in the US.
But I wasn’t born yesterday, I suppose there are a number of ways how to go around those rules and get out of it without any fine or other consequences :(.
The need for profit with no hesitation to break rules by company managers is sometimes really outrageous. And that can be applied to both cases we have here.
Glad you are fine and no longer work for that company. Take care.
@@fixcz
I'm grateful as well to not be on the road anymore. Work as a crane operator now, so have moved up in life, lol.
But that story I shares was actually entirely my fault. We have 11 hour operation limits, that's all drive time. When I finished my load and made it back to my house, that was all within the allowed block of time.
The problem was I didn't plan my rest the previous couple of days prior. I was so focused on the upcoming weekend break that I pushed too hard to get home on time.
By the time it all went down, I was on autopilot and not thinking clearly. Obviously, as my mind scrubbed out 6 hours of driving on the most traveled freeway in California.
The company I worked for was small, but had a nearly spotless reputation for maintained trucks and experienced drivers with good safety records. The problem companies are the massive ones with huge fleets with thousands of drivers. They don't care how tired you are. Work to your allowed time limit or risk losing your job.
@@gmr4life884 Thanks for your explanation. The main thing is you got the lesson and learned from it :).
Btw I looked that up and our drivers can drive 9 hours max per day and they have to stop for 45 minutes break every 4,5 hours. There are other rules about resting before, after, during the week, they can extend the driving period to 10 hours with specific conditions, but I don’t want to bother you with that. I’m just curious whether you have mandatory breaks in those 11 hours as well.
@@fixcz
From what I remember, we had the ability to drive that entire length of time, it was left up to us. I wasn't under mandatory break requirements. We could take them as needed.
As far as the time pressure, we were given reasonsable delivery dates, so could in essence make our own hours and choose our destinations when available.
40:00 What a great "whoop whoop", one of the best.
Stress and lack of rest is a killer
Pero son fatalmente "silenciosos" Un cáncer, una diabetes, una hipertensión, un alto colesterol matan mejor, pero tardan más Tiempo, te dan oportunidad de analizar la situación.
In most occupations.
@@cesardavrieux3767 yeah pretty much leads to that
Especially in a corporate setting
Stupidity is
Hearing "at time zero..." gives me some chills for a while now 😂
Would you consider doing a video on the runway collision in Japan Hadena airport that happened early 2024?
Both the facts that it is very recent and also the flawless evacuation makes it an interesting and educational video.
Is the final report out on Haneda? He avoids doing videos on incidents without final report.
He said he was waiting for the final report. Almost all his videos are made after the final report (which is a good thing).
Final report first. That can take up to two years.
@@RingoSkulkin didn't know that. Thanks!
@@wiredforstereo wow. Thanks!
The quality of MP videos keeps going up! Very informative, thank you
The explanations about power curve, AOA, how lift works and kinetic and potential energy work and so on was very brilliant if simple info. Im currently in the process of taking a PPL so the refresh of such info is of great help!
Glad that you speak about the Circadian rhythm and the graveyeard shift almost everytime in detail.
I have no hope of anyone from employer realizing this, as I have started to look else where for a regular shift job.
Doing this on a daily basis is just frustrating and effecting my physical and mental healthy in a really bad way 😢
Some of us are night people. I can't maintain a day job. My body just doesn't function at 7 AM!!!
Maybe the stall warning needs to change to “stall, push forward” to remind a pilot in a panic as I’ve heard a few crashes like this now ☹️
That's a great idea. And stick pushers should be more common.
no, if they dont know they should push down in a stall then they should nver be in control of an airplane
@@davidjr4903 of course but Peter explained that panic can incapacitate humans, I would fully expect a pilot to know how to handle a stall but I suppose people react in wild ways in an emergency
Great idea, wonder why it’s not like that already
@@davidjr4903 at low altitudes, pushing down in a stall, might be less important than avoiding a "terrain, terrain!" alert.
Petter, I’m hoping you’ll get to Air Algérie 5017. The crash was eerily similar to West Caribbean 708. Both were MD-80s, both got “behind the power curve” (and with thrust diminished, the autopilot kept trimming to maintain altitude) and both experienced high-altitude stalls in icing conditions from which the flight crews did not recover. Most perplexingly, in both cases the crews inexplicably kept pulling back on the yoke despite clear stall warnings (stick shaker plus aural “STALL sᴛᴀʟʟ” alerts from the CAWS).
Sounds like it's almost exactly the same crash - what would be the point in making another video?
If it's the same, why cover it?
it's incredibly frustrating and sad to see a story of a perfectly working airplane being doomed like this. I learn so much in these videos, all the technical aspects of flying, the physics of it, and very importantly the human nature and psychology part. this all makes it actually very easy to understand even seemingly unbelievably stupid looking pilot actions and not feel the need to blame them, but rather to really emphatise. thank you so much for bringing this rare kind of multifaceted awareness and education to the flight enthusiasts on the internet ♥
Thank you for the great video, Petter. RIP to those lost. It’s a little bit of comfort to know that the passengers and crew were unaware and didn’t have to experience the pain and terror that we often associate with air accidents. 💗
Fantastic production value. The amount of detail in the footage and editing is really impressive!
I will never understand why so many pilots would rather die than speak up to their senior captains. If the stall warning is sounding, the stick shaker is active and the plane is falling, how can you just sit back and say "Oh well. I don't want to get scolded by the captain. Guess I will just die". It really baffles me.
I think just like the senior captain, he had complete faith in the captain's experience to the end. He knew what was wrong, but because the captain was active and "doing something" he probably trusted the man on his left with his life more than he did in his own training.
Thats probably not what he was thinking at all, he was thinking how he trusted his captain with his life and the captain must be doing something to correct the situation. Its very common even in our daily lives where we ignore something that we may know is wrong, since we trust the authorities that are doing the wrong thing. Imagine the same situation with your boss at work. They have more experience and you must be missing something they see.
I think the issue is that, if an older, more senior, more experienced colleague doesn't react to your advice, or reacts in a negative way, you implicitly start to doubt yourself and whether you've actually diagnosed the situation correctly. In a situation that's inherently confusing and stressful, you're never 100% sure whether you've figured it out correctly, and a negative response can easily cause you to doubt your analysis.
People have a tendency to lose ownership of a problem once they communicate it. He probably assumed the captain understood, and that there must have been some other issue. If your captain is seemingly aware and working the problem, it would take a lot to think to take over the controls in the middle of an uncertain situation. Once the captain mentioned the engines, it probably confirmed this bias.
This is why effective communication and CRM are such important skills.
...And also to remember the guy sitting next to you might be wrong.
I love your videos man, keep up the great work.
Glad you like them! I will continue as long as you guys are here to watch them
Driving during that window is really difficult as well. Recently did an over 12hr, overnight drive to get home and that was absolutely brutal around 0300-0400
and here I am at 4AM not being able to fall asleep. for me, sunrise is brutal, especially when driving. I can drive all night, when the sun rises, it's killing me.
@@laurentiupopa5001 Tiredness is accepted as being more dangerous than being drunk at the wheel. You must stop and take a rest or a coffee if that helps. You must make it clear to your employer that if you so choose to stop that doing this is acting in your company's best interests. It could be that 15 mins is all it takes.
@@MartinChadwick-xe7gh Both are part of the Fatal Five.
Thank you Mentour for the detailed account. It is incredibly reminiscent of the Pulkovo 612 TU-154, especially in how the co-pilot was very young and couldn’t influence the captain’s actions.
This one hit me really bad and it is one of those you'll never forget. I've met PIC and FO several times before, the last one was me saying bye to both of them from the SKRG terminal windows while they were sitting in the cockpit. FO was really young indeed but a great and very friendly person to talk with. RIP
This is a very sad memory. I´m sorry for you. But they messed it up, and in a shocking way. They were finally responsible not only for killing themselves but also 158 other human beings - beyond all the failures of this scrappy airline. They shouldn´t have been in this cockpit.
In utter shock, I never imagined it would end this way, with the loss of all souls on board.
As you pointed out, the airliner shouldn't have been allowed to operate if it couldn't even afford to fuel the plane on time.
The first officer should have requested the pilot to push the nose down to recover from the stall.
Indeed.
Every aircraft should carry a library of your videos to refer to in times of trouble.
Your knowledge of aircraft and its dynamics is mind boggling and yet you explain it so that anybody that watches can understand.
Thanks to you and your team for a 5 star channel.
Thank you for watching.
"We got an all Engine Flameout, what should we do"
"Better refer to Mentour Pilot"
*continues to watch all related accident videos for 10 hours*
"Ok, now we are prepared properly to bring this Bird down"
*looks out the window and only sees Trees*
*continues to watch all Mentour Pilot Videos related to Terrain Avoidance for another 10 hours*
Wait until theres blinkist for Videos @@unitrader403
@@unitrader403 Great comments by everybody!
Seems like the "drinking game" should be mandatory. One Mentour Pilot video. Check. One beer/shot down the hatch. Check. Repeat and rinse. Breyoshim? Time to fight about the bottle! cheers! / CS
@@panosdotnet probably, but have you actually watched a Mentour Pilot Video about that first?
I am not a nervous flyer or an aspiring pilot. But the videos are still entertaining.
But not only that, but is also informative in general, even outside the aero domain.
The bit about the captain being excited about getting a cupcake just made me feel so sad. 😢That little detail caught me off guard, just made this utter tragedy seem closer to home.
One of the best things about this channel is the quality of the graphics and animations, which are done in a way that really helps immerse me in the story. Top work 👍
22:18 What a truly good short lesson of aerodynamics 😲. I'm learning a lot from your videos. Anyways, have a good one Petter
Great video, yet again. One of the key points from this video that applies to everyone working in any industry and every kind of accident: people in stressful situations will miss obvious things. This is why, for example, in the military people are taught to repeat callouts often, because during combat stress even simple instructions and orders can be easily missed. The first officer should have recognized this and kept repeating that they're stalling, and if the captain still hadn't reacted, he should have taken control and acted himself.
When something happens that is not normal, whether at work or anywhere else, do not assume other people notice the same things you do, and vice versa. In high stress situations be as clear as possible while also stating what should be done to fix the situation. And if you see stressed people either freezing up or going into full-autopilot mode and about to do something stupid, prevent it if you can. And, if you're unsure of what is going on, ask for help instead of assuming your picture of the situation is correct.
Indeed, exactly!
I really love all the context you gave here. If you just jumped into the accident sequence it would have seemed incredible that the pilots didn’t immediately pitch down and recover. However, it’s much easier to understand how this happened because of your excellent research and story telling.
"Stay in school kids" love it!!🤣
Hi Petter, I'm not in aviation professionally but have been watching your videos for years now. Really appreciate your way of analysing and explaining them to laymen like me. Learnings from your videos has helped me in applying them in my profession successfully. Your emphasis on crew resource management, safety standards, human psychology are really very helpful for me. Thank you so much and all the best.
I am from Martinique and this tragic accident stay to this day in the memory of every martinican. Everybody here at least know someone whose relatives was in that plane and every 16th of August our thoughts are with the families of the victims. I will now start the video, thanks for sharing
I hope it will answer some questions. Sorry for your loss 😔
Even i know how to get out of a stall just by watching Mentour Pilot videos
Learned it on zx spectrum flight sims aged 12
@@redboyjan lmao, step one: pitch down
Fantastic video as always! I really appreciate how you focus on the total circumstances, instead of just saying "pilot error" and leaving it at that. So many people just stop looking when they run into the most immediate cause being something that went on in a person's mind (error, mental health, etc) instead of looking into what environmental factors could have contributed to that mental state.
I know there was a lot going on here but, in my limited experience and knowlege of flying/piloting, I have come across the stall situation many times - PUSH THE NOSE DOWN! They had so much altitude and time to do this and could so easily have recovered control of the aircraft, but, as you say constantly, most aviation 'incidents' are the result of many cumulative factors. I just hope there are a LOT of pilots watching your channel who take your lessons to heart, I'm sure that somewhere you have saved lives with what you put out, keep up the good work!
I love your description of when your explaining the math about the way the air flows to how the air makes the pain drag or throtle.
Probably the best description of the power curve I've encountered. I'm a pilot and have never heard such a succinct and clear explanation of the area on the left of the power curve.
Thank you! Great to hear that you found it helpful.
The little detail about the cupcake makes it even sadder...
Absolutely. That part gave me a sharp tug at the heartstrings..... RIP
How? In my opinion the Captain killed everyone on board when he ignored the FO. His arrogance killed them in a way. So I don't really care if he got to have a cupcake or not, there where probably children aboard.
@@221b-l3t Because it shows him as a human too, and having to make ends meet due to not being paid I believe he wouldn't buy "frivolous" things, like a cupcake, with his own money.
I’ve seen the mayday episode on this, great to see the story told another way!
I hope this adds more detailed info
@@MentourPilot Yes, your analysis is always better and more level-headed. The Mayday episode is more dramatized.
Even in hangglider education, one rule was hammered into our heads: "speed is safety!" True for any kind of aircraft... It was almost a physical pain to see the pilot pulling instead of pushing 😱
Thanks!
Great video as always, Petter!
If I'm not mistaken stall revocery manoeuver (pitch down, add thrust) is something pilots practise for hours in their first PPL training in, say, a Cessna 172. How much of the muscle memory that this must build is worn off by years of flying commercial aircraft where lots of other emergency procedures become important?
Not that this would have helped here as the Captain clearly didn't even register that they were in a stall.
That is the main point in this case: he suffered from the confirmation bias that his aircraft had an engine problem and ignored all contradicting information - the stall-warning, the stickshaker, the hint of his FO. He was in the tunnel and never went out of it.
Great video! As a private pilot student, I don't understand why professional airline pilots would need to do 'training' on how to recover from a stall, which is what they would have learned from day 1 as student pilots.
Remember that training is something that needs to be done repeatedly, so that you can do the action instinctively when needed. Assume that is why commercial pilots have to regularly undergo simulator training. It is not every day that they need to recover from a stall, but on the one day it is needed it is critical that they do it correctly.
@@mariomenezes1153 Point well taken. I guess from my perspective it's drilled into me over and over. But maybe when you're a pilot with 10,000 hours and you're focused on all the intricacies of handling a complex jet, you forget the basics.
@@kevinklassen4328 And you have 200 to 400 lives depending on you. Not to mention multi millions of dollars of aircraft as well as regulators. They tend to get finicky about safety 😊
In addition to initial pilot training, they need stall recovery training specific to the aircraft they're flying at every stage of their careers and at every stage of flight.
2:04 Your Spanish pronunciation of that name is spot on!!
I love your accent! I could listen to you for hours. You’re a very good narrator and bring the stories alive. Thank you.
you can listen to him for hours lol he has so many videos
"Including a Cupcake, which the Captian was very happy about" I don't know why, but hearing this just rapidly humanized the captain for me. I went "I love cupcakes too!" then all of a sudden I remembered how most of these tales end and got really sad realizing that a man who is going through hell got really happy about a simple cupcake, then had to deal with *this*
Very sad story. Also, extremely detailed and diverse renders, love them!👏🏼
I’m recovering from Covid. Thanks for the video today. It was much needed.
Keep your nose down and gain speed💪🏻😅
😂😂@@musicisthebest674
You are such an amazing storyteller and everything is so accurate in your videos, I appreciate it!
I am not from the aviation industry. I am a business consultant. My game is scientific management in administrative settings. My academic background is hospital management and before that, science. Biology. I can't get enough of videos on this channel. I LOVE the learning but, more importantly, I see the relevance of 1. Respecting the laws of nature together with 2. Never neglecting complexity; physics won't wait for you to remember all factors AND 3. the human element thrown in the mix. These concepts and learning points are relevant everywhere - whether it's the safety of people or the safety of financial P&L. That said, and since it's Sunday morning now, I would love to be quizzed on the body of pilot knowledge just to see how much I picked from watching these videos :) I should easily score 20% hahaha
Love how he told us to stay in school
Great video. I have seen the same sad story on another channel. It was dramatized, but the real important informations were lacking. Very well done. 👍
That’s what we do here, we bring the facts
09:14 - AMAZING foreshadowing.
And, as far as I can remember, this isn't the first time that something like this has happened because the PIC got too full of himself (e.g., Airblue 202, Air France 296Q etc.). As someone who recreates air disasters for content myself, I really like the way you tell these stories and break down important facts that one would need to be able to properly understand the accident. This is a well crafted video and I enjoy your content -- I often listen to it in the background while gaming or have it on picture in picture. Keep it up, Petter!
I am actually working on my ATPL theory, Your videos are really nice to see as it gives clear examples of what i learn in the books. Thank you :)
30:08 crazy - the very people who designed a plane that would get behind the power curve without warning anybody and would maintain autopilot angle of attack throughout an approach to stall ended up taking over the management of Boeing and now Boeing had the issues it has. Seems like a coincidence.
In my book, "Uplift" I wrote about passengers asking me if I ever get bored during cruise flight. It is impossible to describe, in a short answer, all these dynamic threats (such as Peter so clearly describes here) that exist during flight at high altitude. There are so many. I could only shrug and say: "Trust me. Boring is good. You wouldn't like exciting!" This tragedy is a sad illustration of a flight quickly becoming 'exciting.' Sad outcome.
Absolutely true!
I drive a lot for work, and though I’m not at 30k feet while travelling, a ‘boring’ drive is almost always preferable to the alternative 😅
As an anesthesiologist, I got asked the same question, we are physically active during induction and emergence (not to be confused with emergency), other than that we’re mostly monitoring and doing little adjustments here and there on the workstation. I often joke my job is 99% boredom /1% panic. So, yes, boring is good!
Poor captain didn't knew it was his last cup cake of his life 😢
Yes.
They fcuked up. I feel sorry for the passengers and their families
as far as I recall MACH ATL ist not Mach altitude but Mach Autothrottle limit
Very welcome to mentour, yet another video podcast and I hope you are doing absolutely fantastic! ❤ watching you since the first officer programs video 9 years ago - I’m still not an airline pilot yet but I needed to work to save money for my training. I just finished my PPLs :) i wanna thank you mentour for your videos - they have helped me In not just aviation knowledge and entertainment but in a lot of aspects of life. I have immense respect for you and even my dad (a commercial ship captain) watches your video and loves them. Thank you
6:46 Wow. Safety violations, unable to pay fines, deadly crash beforehand, unable to pay pilots, failing to pay for a weather report, barely old enough to fly copilot paired with an exhausted pilot, unable to pay for the fuel for the flight...that airline is looking really bad, even before takeoff.
And it doesn´t became better after takeoff.
Unable to pay for fuel is insane levels of mismanagement of money...
I stopped at almost the exact same time to stop and comment pretty much the same thing, what did they do with the probably little revenue they did get, immediately blow it on booze and escorts? They didn't have anything left over for operations.
So many of these accidents related by Petter show a pilot in command who seems to have forgotten all basic flying skills and have no ability to fly themselves out of the situation (that they have usually put themselves in). Yesterday it was a 62 year old 757 captain with a gazillion hours who didn't or couldn't correct a stall....doesn't matter how many thousands of hours of monitoring instruments or inputting autopilot controls a person has, if they can't actually FLY the plane....
This takes me completely by surprise, I expected the next episode next Sunday. Now, lemme find my popcorn and enjoy😁😎! Thanks Petter🤲. Are we switching to weekly releases going forward?
No, not quite but given the extra influx of Patreons, we have now managed to expand the team enough to create 1 extra video per month on both channels.. so there will be releases 3 weeks in a row, then a week of rest on MP.
@@MentourPilot Thank you!🙂👍
Thanks!
Thank you!
You have such a magnificent way of explaining these complex principles in an easy to understand way
4:38 "Only 56 hours in the last 90 days" is what I hear, but the display at the bottom right shows '19 days'. Am I deaf or is the overlay wrong?
Nice catch! That was an error
This accident was so bad, that it not only took West Caribbean out, but the inspection by the Colombian Civil Aviation Authority on passenger airlines, forced “Intercontinental de aviación”to shut down also. As a Colombian I’m very wary of Colombian startups airlines and just stick to AVIANCA. Just last year VIVA and ULTRA were going the same way of West Caribbean (Specifically not paying crew on time and not having insurance money) but thankfully the Civil Aviation Authority grounded them before any fatalities occurred. (ULTRA ceasing operations and filed for bankruptcy the minute their insurance expired)
What's your opinion on Wingo? I flew last year in july and had no problems but I don't know much about it in general.
Do you fly LATAM Colombia?
@@heidirabenau511 Haven’t had the chance, but yes I would. They are an all Airbus a320 series and pretty much harmonized with LATAM standards, which is a Legacy carrier. They took over AIRES, which allows them to display the Colombian flag. But I wouldn’t fly AIRES in their day (look for AIRES Flight 8250, it’s the typical case of a Colombian regional airline trying to operate jets).
@@dapylot1227 It’s the succesor of AeroRepública, which was I think the first actual ULCC in the Country. Before that ultra high density cabins were not a thing. We used to call it “Aero Mariachi” in a somewhat derogatory but affectionate way. That was because of two things: Mariachi is very popular in Bogotá, but the bands used to move around in vans packed so tightly that the musicians had to carry their instruments hanging from the windows (specially the Guitarrón) and also their deep purple with white and gold stripes logo, as well as their liveries resembled a “Charro” suit. They would pinch every penny they could. They had a lot of minor incidents that you wouldn’t find in the press today. If more people knew about aviation I think it would be called the “MEL airline”. Any investigation their defense was “The MEL was fulfilled”. Lavatories light not working? Here’s a lantern, the flight(s) won’t be delayed because of that. One side of the cabin ceiling lights not working? Not in the MEL. A backseat collapsed? We’ll take that piece out and block the seat. I at least commend them on following the safety regulations but think some of that culture continues with WINGO today, but with COPA overseeing their operation pretty sure they at least take safety seriously. Anyway WINGO is mostly a holiday airline and has little to none spare capacity, with many destinations served once daily and if there’s a problem with your flight, you are in for a long delay.
I get that airline training is different than private, but all these stories about stalls or near stalls where the crew just won't put the nose down make me crazy. My training pounded it into my brain: nose down full power, nose down full power (and then clean up the aircraft if you weren't clean already). It's like they're more worried about busting their flight level than about actually getting the air going over the wings the right way.
Stall recovery in a light aircraft low altitude is very easy, you recover very quickly with only a few hundred feet of altitude lost. The problem when you stall at very high altitude is that the recovery from stall requires a much more dramatic input from the flight crew and may require the loss of thousands of feet in altitude before safe flight can be recovered. If the flight crew had not been trained for this they may well not have realised how different a high altitude stall is.
It keeps happening so no lessons are learnt. I myself learnt to recover a stall on zx spectrum flight sims aged 12. It's pretty obvious anyway
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549piss poor training then
So sad but critical we learn from a tragedy . As always Petter your explanations make a laymen understand ( a bit ) as to why these things occur. thanks again.
I think we may well have missed the point here. The specific flight details are interesting but not critical. This pilot combination, over time, made a crash almost inevitable.
For someone who wants to be a pilot like me (hope I can begin my private pilot course next year), your channel is absolutely fantastic. Your channel is the most technically detailed channel about aviation I've seen on the hole youtube. Every aspect of the aircraft operation explained as deeply as possible and yet comprehensible for everyone, even for those who are only amateurs in this topic. Congratulations, greetings from Brazil.
These videos are getting better and better! Especially, the VFX was really great mixed with that orange flash during the explosion. I'm telling you as an editor, it is really great work! Congrats to you and your team!
My editor will be very happy to hear that!! 💕
I liked the tunnel vision blur on the edges
I've been on a flight (WIZZAIR) with A321 flying on a cruise altitude and the angle of attack was SO HIGH that literally scared me, it was so much visible from the aircraft that in order to walk towards the front of the aircraft was needed a real climb, was super steep. I was scared and thought to ask the crew to check with pilot but thought I'd be ignored.
😢
Fortunately it was not too high.
Wing anti-ice at FL330? Really? These guys were really “asleep at the wheel”.
If ever needing to fly at Max altitude, (something you always try to avoid), I’d say to my FO - “No distractions- we MUST watch the speed. If we hit minimum drag speed, we will NOT fly slower than that, even if we have to descend slightly to maintain that speed.”
What a sad story. I hadn’t heard of this one, so damn preventable!
Indeed. The most disturbing aspect of it is that the Pilots seemed to have had a lack of technical understanding not only how their specific aircraft worked but also how flying an aircraft works in general. Not only in matter of icing but also in a couple of other points, e.g. the relationship between the weight of the aircraft and the ability to fly at a specific altitude or the relationship between the angle of attack and the speed. That is disturbing because as a passenger you simply expect that your pilots know matters like these.
When questioning how this could be it´s worth remembering that this Airline was fined some month before this crash for providing insufficient training to their crews. No wonder if it was not even able to pay their crews for half a year.
But nevertheless: Pilots with a CPL or even an ATPL have to know such things, for the safety of all on board.
I stumbled some years ago over this crash because there´s still an association of relatives of the Deceased active and in 2022 a memorial for the victims was erected in Paris (151 of the 152 passengers were French citizens from the island of Martinique).
I’m an old fart that can say he’s been flying the DC-9 (as passenger, not pilot) since the 1960’s. I never liked it then whether it’s because it was so horribly noisy with those body mounted engines, the ride was always bumpy. I couldn’t begin to count the number of times the roller coaster turbulence had my seat belts pulling me into the seat to keep from negative g forces. But as Peter explains, it’s also an inherently unstable platform at max altitude when coupled by an AP that won’t disengage is just silly and hard to explain for a type that had been in service for 30+ years, so I like it even less now.
Amazing and great video once again guys. I know you have a whole team that does these and you guys put out amazing stories. Thanks for all you do.
I am from Guadeloupe, the sister island, I remember this horrible moment very vividly…😢 Thank you for your explanation. It makes much more sense to me now 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Hey Captain you it so clear explaining everything regarding aviation that layman like us understand everything, thank you so much!
Great to hear that! This is exactly what we are trying to do
Couldn't agree more! The more you see all the things the pilots have got to stay on top of, you can feel for yourself the importance of being well rested and in a good state of mind. Unfortunately in this case it added up to RIP for something that could have been avoided. Petter's videos are top notch because he explains things like no other incident channel I've seen. Watching his channel has given me great respect for what the pilots have to do. Thanks again, Captain for another great although sad video.