The Hidden Power of Archers in Rome 2

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  • Опубліковано 22 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 58

  • @Batman-bm5tu
    @Batman-bm5tu Місяць тому +14

    Woke up and was watching this video, this whole time I thought it was your webcam on the top left

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому

      lmaoooo i wish i was built like that

  • @troels4554
    @troels4554 2 місяці тому +8

    Impressive amount of research and analysis there.

  • @adamgross1157
    @adamgross1157 3 місяці тому +16

    I’m so intrigued by these battles going on in the background, I usually just line my guys up with my slingers/ archer in the back and let em have it haha

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому +3

      haha these are just random tournament games i had saved, ive got more on my channel usually witth commentary if you're interested!

    • @jonny-b4954
      @jonny-b4954 25 днів тому

      You really want to be using archers/slingers on the FLANK of enemies. Specifically, the side without a shield, so their right side. Way more damage

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  24 дні тому

      @@jonny-b4954 true, but also easier to be pressured on the flanks, although trying to generate advantages there to put ur arch there and shoot swordside can be very good

  • @Victor83113
    @Victor83113 2 місяці тому +7

    Slingers take more manoeuvring to get into a good enough position to do damage

  • @marketableskills5374
    @marketableskills5374 4 місяці тому +3

    nice work, my man!

  • @howitzer551
    @howitzer551 4 місяці тому +16

    Yo Alphablue the modder here, I think this is part of what you are trying to say, even if they aren't actually getting the kills archers make enemy units combat ineffective faster than slingers, which isn't technically "cost effectiveness" but helps the rest of your army preform better, a sort of "if used correctly your whole army is more cost effective not just the archers". Also while this is not just about missiles, and more just damage in general, people think about the actual number way too much. With how armor and missile block chance (for ranged units) or melee defense (for melee) works the amount of hits needed to connect to kill/seriously damage (so anything else can finish it) a model is way more important than the exact numbers of damage. I am going to forget the math (did it a long time ago) but most infantry in the game (75% ish) has between 45-55 health so regardless of ap anything with 60-65 armor or less drops a model (or has literally

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  4 місяці тому +4

      thanks, yeah, this is something I hadn't thought about much before this video, but the kill over-inflation for slingers is absurd. Knowing the TTK for units is also a big thing, but it's quite hard to calculate and remember for everything so u kinda gotta go off of generalizations as you've said here.

    • @howitzer551
      @howitzer551 4 місяці тому +6

      @@miles_garcia Yeah knowing all the stats is not gonna win you games, but understanding sort of loose rules of thumb for like 40+ damage kills models faster on almost any unit, and stuff like ap is not that important until you in the 70+ armor rating (not that it hurts).

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  4 місяці тому +4

      @@howitzer551 yeah, for interest, i ran a quick test-- how much dmg will an archer vs slinger do after armor is accounted for:
      40 dmg arch outdamage 29 dmg slingers on avg up to ~35 armor
      40 dmg arch outdamage 23 dmg slingers up to ~85 armor
      35 dmg arch outdamage 29 dmg sling up to ~20 armor
      35 dmg arch outdamage 23 dmg sling up to ~60 armor
      so yeah the elite slingers are obviously cracked cuz 8AP is insane, but everywhere else the archers get a lot of value damage wise, with the other benefits i mentioned in the video for mobility etc
      and if ur getting good shots where shields aren't in play, 35 armor, for example, isn't actually hard to find on many units.

    • @howitzer551
      @howitzer551 4 місяці тому +2

      @@miles_garcia Yeah people forget how much of armor is the shield the 3 most common shields in the game (celtic oval and thureos) all give 30-35 armor which is great till you get shot from the unshielded side and most mid tier units are going down to 30-40 base armor (I believe you are right 35 is the average base armor for grand campaign). Also side note archers are just devastating to heavy (and very/super heavy) cav, the ones too slow to dodge arrow volley consistently, compared to slingers. With the high hp per model even elite slingers take a bit to chip them down where as 90 arrows off the 40 damage bows hitting most of the front 2ish rows of a 60 man/horse unit will drop models or at least savage their hp on the first volley and that is without including something like precision shot on Syrians.

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  4 місяці тому +3

      @@howitzer551 ye i didnt even go into the fact that only archers have damage boosting abilities (heavy shot + prec shot)
      also its just so easy to dodge slinger vollies with cav because they just take so long to shoot that often the cav can just get out of range. I can't count how many times in mid-games archers have just been able to get clutch fast vollies on cav that can just devastate them. It's extremely valuable.

  • @dalmacietis
    @dalmacietis 3 місяці тому +14

    God, these discord notifications in the background are annoying.

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому

      ya probably should have closed it

  • @GaryQuinn-i3e
    @GaryQuinn-i3e Місяць тому +2

    How did you get your damage data for your graphs? Love it

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому +1

      @@GaryQuinn-i3e all the data is stored in files, which u can access using a software called packfilemamager. But I think this data is even just in the game if u hover over the damage, it splits between AP and normal, so the rest is just math. Glad u enjoyed!

  • @windwindy5356
    @windwindy5356 3 місяці тому +6

    You forgot to mention how Archers completely dominate slingers in siege battles. Archers have much greater arc of fire while slingers are almost completely useless as their line of sight are constantly blocked.

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому

      thats true but idc about siege really :D

    • @rj-the-red6767
      @rj-the-red6767 2 місяці тому

      you are mostly right. the one time slings than fight archers is when they are on the walls shooting at bowmen outside the walls. yes you shouldn't let that happen, but in some cases like the map, or how they have placed their men. slings can kill bowmen really fast. never think slingers cant kill, but it seems like you already know how to stop them. also put can put them outside the walls to shoot at bowmen outside the walls giving them line of sight

  • @saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014
    @saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014 3 місяці тому +2

    Iberian Factions: Vanilla producers have forsaken us! Despite archeology, painting in caves showing how the bow was an important use in warfare in the Tribes of the Iberian Peninsula

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому +4

      yea its a bit ridiculous when a faction has only slingers like seriously u dont know what a bow is

  • @HistoricalWeapons
    @HistoricalWeapons Місяць тому

    This makes historical sense as archers are more deadly for most of human history. Slingers had more options at killing heavy armor with cheap ammo, but takes a lot more time

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому

      yeah r2 has by far the deadliest slingers of any of the historical titles as well cuz the AP is so busted on them

  • @humpteedumptee8629
    @humpteedumptee8629 23 дні тому

    I prefer archers. They lower moral, have special ammo, shot around obstacles. I chose palisades overs slingers. They have less ammo. But take out hella chunks with each volley. You have some palisades far enough up to get some shots out and retreat. Then as soon as they advance past that your legionnaires throw their javelin. You can get 2-4 volleys. Then you have archers start pounding from over the infantry.

  • @tomblack2064
    @tomblack2064 4 місяці тому +2

    Very informative video 😊

  • @mariusdavid9771
    @mariusdavid9771 2 місяці тому

    great video thx for all the content 👍

  • @MarcusDecimusGentus
    @MarcusDecimusGentus 3 місяці тому

    Wow a lot of Quick maths, very interesting!

  • @arcomegis9999
    @arcomegis9999 Місяць тому

    Cavalry is the bane of missile/ranged units. Just count the average of all situations where each type has to fare against cavalry charges. Archers are better protected in most cases. And again, archers can have a chance of pacifying light cavalry as well as missile cavalry overtime.

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому

      @@arcomegis9999 if cavalry get into missiles it’s over for them regardless of unit, but archers have better utility at damaging cavalry because of faster shooting speed. Sure there are some archers that can kinda stand up to light cav or javcav but that’s a very minor point as it’s only a few units and they still have no defense against medium or heavier cav

    • @HistoricalWeapons
      @HistoricalWeapons Місяць тому

      Jav

  • @philkim8297
    @philkim8297 3 місяці тому

    Which slingers have 60% missile block chance?

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  2 місяці тому

      @@philkim8297 Germanic slingers are the only ones. 50% is quite common tho, main ones being eastern slingers and Illyrian slave slingers

  • @fabienherry6690
    @fabienherry6690 Місяць тому

    My main issue with archer is that they are more farther in the build tree but are only usefull against lower tech low armor troop.

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому

      in campaign maybe, but im mainly focusing on MP battles where all units are available :)

  • @matthewwebster3143
    @matthewwebster3143 3 місяці тому +3

    I use archers and I use them just great against slingers

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому +3

      I think it's rarely a value trade though. If both are deployed in long lines the archers have to use almost their entire clip to kill slingers of similar quality. Can still be worthwhile depending on the rest of ur army tho

    • @darkglobe406
      @darkglobe406 3 місяці тому +1

      don´t use archers vs slingers .
      a.) 2 cheap slinger units can criple your elite archer unit (syrians or cretans) (and they will still have ammo left to do AP damage to your high value units) or
      b.) you waste almost all your ammo trying to kill some 270-380 denari cheap slingers ...
      neither is good for your archers .
      and if you have cheap archers their morale is too low and they will break fighting enemy slingers ...
      archers should be used vs low armour shock infantry or elite targets (preferably shooting into non shield side of the enemy unit if possible) .

  • @Nolo235
    @Nolo235 2 місяці тому

    nice vid

  • @masonboone7298
    @masonboone7298 3 місяці тому

    Archers arc their fire slingers can’t that’s all I need to know

  • @toxicsaint3545
    @toxicsaint3545 Місяць тому

    So slinger are better in slow battles like sieges, but then you realise slingers aren’t good in most sieges because they have a terrible fire arch

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому +1

      @@toxicsaint3545 they’re ok in some situations in siege but yeah this video doesn’t rlly pertain to siege at all
      But there are loads of situations in land where you’re able to get value with slingers anyway ofc

    • @toxicsaint3545
      @toxicsaint3545 Місяць тому

      @ not really they can be good but essentially when your defending and have lost som ground as you always(unless you fight to death over the walls) you won’t have any space to put your slinger where they can both shoot the enemy and won’t hit your units in the back. The ofc some maps have a small hills where you can put them but that’s the exception to the general rule

  • @felipe_cover
    @felipe_cover Місяць тому

    Slingers are just tecnically the beta version of archers. Cheaper, slower, less range, no special moves, no fire shots. You’re welcome

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  Місяць тому

      @@felipe_cover well they have the same range and more AP basically (except the cheap ones)

  • @erisdiscordia5429
    @erisdiscordia5429 Місяць тому +1

    my god, turn off your discord while recording.

  • @svllal.cornelivs2443
    @svllal.cornelivs2443 2 місяці тому

    Archers + Infantry + Cavalry + Navy + Walls + Elephants + Dogs + Gods VS Slingers ...............Slingers Win!!.........Fatality......worst battle mechanics ever

  • @lukeinvictus
    @lukeinvictus 3 місяці тому

    Woah a script

    • @miles_garcia
      @miles_garcia  3 місяці тому

      that or 2 hour ramble, your pick! :D

  • @Juvelira
    @Juvelira Місяць тому

    Lol this game's multy is so bad